 Hello and welcome to today's webcast. How to set up and run an effective mentoring campaign. My name is Sarah Gonzalez and I'm from Redback Conferencing. Today we're going to discuss the benefits and the case for running mentoring campaigns. How to set them up and run them successfully. And also here from some other people who have done them and done them well. We're joined by Melissa Richardson from the Art of Mentoring. How are you today Melissa? Yeah, well thanks Sarah. Great to see you. Yes. So we've got a lot of people registered for this event. And I guess it's something that a lot of us have never really thought about in the past. Or I think for a lot of us we have thought about mentoring but we don't know where to start. And we don't actually know what we should look out for. So let's get straight into today. Sure. And first of all I want to ask you what are the benefits of mentoring? Not only for an organisation but as for someone who's a mentor and for someone who is actually being mentored. Yeah well let's start with the benefits for employers. So if you're a company there are a lot of reasons to be running mentoring programs. We know these days there are many graduates who will choose a company to work for simply because they have a mentoring program. So that's one of the questions that they'll ask. We know it's a tool for engagement and retention. So employees who are mentored are much more likely to be loyal and stay at a company. But we also know that they return so when people leave those that have had a mentor are much more likely to return to the company than those that didn't have a mentor. And I think mostly companies are using it for capacity building. If we look at member organisations because I know there's a lot of associations who are tuning in today. Some of the reasons that they're getting involved in mentoring are similar reasons. You know looking to attract members. It can often be a reason to actually join because you want to be part of a mentoring program. Engaging those members, getting them more involved with one another and with the association. They're more likely to stay as a member. But it's also a great way to build community if you're running it as a structured program where people are going through the experience as a cohort and getting to meet one another. So we know from research and I've just put a couple of points up there on the slide that mentoring tends to increase the likelihood of a salary increase. So basically that's saying people become more promotable when they've had a mentor and it also increases connection and loyalty to the organisation that's actually putting the program on. Okay so I think because we've got so many different generations in the workforce now how do we define mentoring? Because for a lot of people they may not know the difference between a mentor and a manager. A lot of people going out to look for a mentor they don't even know what to look for. So how do you define mentoring within the workplace? Yeah and you know ask a hundred people and you'll get a hundred definitions right. I'm putting this one up. Well actually it's... We'll come back to that slide. We'll go to this one. So we like to use this definition which is actually from my colleague Professor David Claudebuck in the UK because when we talk about mentoring we're talking about developmental mentoring. So it's all about it's a helping relationship between two people. One person is obviously more experienced than the other and there's an exchange of knowledge, experience and goodwill. So it's not just a one way I will transfer knowledge to you. It's very much a mutual exchange. The mentors are helping people gain insight, gain wisdom. Often helping them understand their direction and defining a clearer purpose for themselves. And we know too that in developmental mentoring the mentor themselves are changed by the relationship. So it has an impact on the mentors and often in the programs that we run actually we hear that the mentors have got just as much out of it as the mentees have. So just a few basic questions before we get into how to set up the camp mentoring program. What's the difference between a sponsor because I have heard sponsor before and do mentors need to be either within the same industry or have the same sort of work experience as someone who they're mentoring? Okay so let's deal with the first one. And it's interesting because I think the notion of sponsorship has come up a lot recently particularly around issues for women. So you might hear people say well women don't need mentors, they need a sponsor. And what they mean by that is a sponsor is someone who will actually advocate for you. So if the sponsor is someone who's inside your own organization then it's somebody who will look out for you but also maybe promote your promotability to other people within the organization. So is it more like a personal branding? Yeah kind of but also someone who's going to kind of pull you up the career ladder after them. Whereas mentoring is more of that emotional support and being a sound board and someone to help. Okay. And then the notion of having to have that same industry experience as someone else or if I'm in marketing do I have to be mentored by someone who has quite a diverse skill set in marketing or is it just more like you said a sound board? It depends. So it depends on the reasons that the program has been put together. But I guess what often people say as a definition of mentoring is I'm learning for someone who's trodden the path before me therefore you would expect them to have domain specific experience. So if I want to make a career in marketing then likelihood is I'll choose someone who's an experienced marketer. That's not always the case though. So it depends on what it is you're trying to get out of the mentoring relationship as to who you might seek out as a mentor. Okay. So as an organization once we've figured out that and we understand why we want to run a mentoring campaign and what the goals are for people who we want to be involved. How do we start a program? How long should it be? Where should it begin? What does a program actually look like? Yeah. So I'll just put the next slide up because this is the structure we use for our programs. So we prefer structured programs and the reason we prefer them is you have a greater likelihood of success when you provide some structure to people. Yes. We know that what often doesn't work is just putting mentor profiles up on an intranet and letting mentees choose their own mentor. And I think that's because often the people that need mentoring don't have the confidence to go and seek out somebody and actually approach them. So in a formal structured program the whole process begins right at the top of that circle with some program applications. Okay. So a formal way of people actually saying yes I want to be part of this program. There'd be some eligibility criteria that have been communicated to them so they know yes I can be in this program or no I can't. We use the program application information later in the matching. So getting the application right is actually quite important. We then go through into matching and then often we'll provide some of the training before we actually launch the program so that even before the program starts people have a good sense of mentoring and what it's about and what the program's about. We then go into a program launch so that's the introduction phase. So we actually have a formal kickoff that can be done face to face in an event but it can also be done by webinar and I'll talk later in the case studies about how successful that actually can be. And the whole idea of the program introduction is it's a kind of formal launch telling everyone we're getting started but also we're aligning the expectations between the mentors and the mentees of how the program's going to work and what will be required of them in participating. We always check in and this is an important part of the process. If you stop at that point often the mentoring relationships can fall over and nobody actually even knows. So we'll check in just make sure maybe a month or so after the program started make sure people have actually begun, had their first meeting and then half way through the program we'll get everybody back in again face to face or by webinar and that's an opportunity for them to talk with one another and get ideas from one another about things that the mentoring peers are doing together for example and that's a good way for us to get feedback too about how the program's going and then we'll formally close the program so we'll have an event at the end and the reason for that is people like to have closure. If you don't do that often you know peers are wondering are we meant to keep working or not. That's what I see I've always before now just assumed that if you have a mentor you have a mentor and you meet up with a mentor and you chat with a mentor I've never actually thought of it like a formal process which is interesting because now you think of it as like well do you just drift off in separate ways how do you know when enough is enough how do you know when you both maybe don't need to be with each other anymore so what's the timeline for this look like then there's obviously different stages but as a whole how long should a program run for and then you know how long should someone be in program introduction or review for for example look our programs run anywhere between six and twelve months anything less than six it's not enough time for the relationship to develop anything more than twelve months and if you want to run another program then it gets really tricky we think the sweet spot is probably around eight to ten months but you know it depends on the organization and depends on the target audience of the people who are going to be in the program some people like to work for longer and some people like shorter but we always say to people look even when the program formally closes you can continue if you wish you just won't have us checking in on you and asking you to tell us how it's going as well as organising it's just more of a relationship with somebody that's right yeah and then people work through the phases at their own pace so even though we can provide a rule of thumb for example around how often to meet and how to conduct a mentoring relationship we leave it up to the pair to negotiate that and that's an important part of relationship success actually is how well they contract at the beginning and jointly decide how they're going to navigate their relationship okay before we move on we are getting a few questions regarding the presentation so you will all be sent a copy of the recording within 48 hours and a PDF of the slides if that's okay with you so as we move on through this if I'm an organisation and I am launching this sort of campaign I just say campaign because I'm used to say a program is it something that is mandatory for people or how do you know who to get involved do you put the call out for people and ask who wants to be involved or how does that usually work in terms of communication yeah that's a really important question actually because sometimes we've worked with clients where they've tried to make it mandatory and we always recommend against that because you can't mandate a mentoring relationship you can't mandate a relationship can you really it doesn't really matter what kind of relationship people have to want to be in it so we prefer that there's a call for volunteers now how you define volunteer can vary too because sometimes if there's not enough mentors then the program manager might go around the organisation and tap a few people on the shoulder and say oh we need you how do you identify those people how do they identify them yeah well I think often it's people that they think would be you know so that's a question around what makes a good mentor so I'll answer it that way someone who's open, who's approachable who is continuing to learn themselves so not someone who's kind of stuck in their own development you know someone who's willing to share and help others so I think when it's a program inside an organisation that's easy to identify for associations sometimes that's a little bit harder unless the program manager actually really knows the mentors quite well yeah I think like you said if you are identifying people based on some certain characteristics then being with them working with them all day understanding what makes them tick what makes you know how invested they're going to be is obviously going to make a big difference I just want to there are questions coming through so if they are relevant to what we're talking about we will discuss them now experience or advice around mentoring rings how does that play into this well I think by mentoring rings they're referring to mentoring circles or mentoring groups where people get in into a group and mentor one another you can do that in a very unstructured informal way and that would work quite well I guess most of the clients we work with tend to want mentoring in that more traditional one-to-one relationship okay so we've got the program we know the timeline we've got a clear idea of what we want to achieve what do we need to look out for because I'm assuming and I've even just when you mentioned something unstructured you know a new employee comes into the organisation we have someone who becomes their mentor there's no structure around it after two weeks who's that person everyone sort of forgets what their roles are so how do we make sure that this is successful what can we be doing to ensure maximum effectiveness I like this metaphor mentoring program success is like baking a cake because you actually, apart from the ingredients the flour, the eggs and so on you actually need three other things like if you put people into a not well equipped master chef kitchen and said you know just make something with your hands from flour and egg wouldn't work would it right so what else do you need well you actually need a mentoring program manager so let's say that's the kind of chef and you know that might be a very experienced chef or it might be even another chef but you do need somebody that can actually manage the program experience for people in a formal program that means the person who's going to answer the questions when people start applying the person who's actually going to be involved in matching people up the person who's the go-to person when they've got a question so I think people often underestimate the need to have that mentoring program manager and the time that might be required in actually doing that how much do we need to invest in this do people put their hand up if they're going to have to know this takes up a huge chunk of their day yes and often what happens is it's a small part of somebody's otherwise very busy job and they don't have time so we like to say look at the beginning first couple of months it'll probably you know be couple of days a week but once the program is up and running you're really just responding to questions and dealing with issues so you know the time that you need to devote is quite small for big programs it's different so I know I know if you've got a program with 500 pairs and I know there's somebody who's listening today that has a program like that then she would tell you it's almost a full-time job but that's working with a thousand people is it usually HR or is it just not necessarily it depends on the organisation and sometimes people say look I don't have anyone internally that can actually take on that role and they ask us to do that for them and we do that for some of our clients so the next the next thing you need if you're in the MasterChef kitchen is you know you need some you need an oven or you need you know your whisk there seems to be lots of vigorous whisking in MasterChef so we're talking technology now technology I don't mean it has to be sophisticated it can just be a spreadsheet but you need emails but you need a way of communicating if you can't have face-to-face events the program launch and the check-in and the program close then you need webinar technology if you've got a very large program then or even a moderate size program there are mentoring program technologies around which are online mentoring platforms that are really handy for accepting the applications many of them have a built-in matching algorithm so they actually suggest ways of matching people and then you can communicate with everybody in the program through that platform which means you're not having to look through your normal email inbox and find your email so technology is important and depending on the size and the complexity of your program you choose the technology fit for purpose and the third thing that you need is really some expertise around running a mentoring program so you can't just tomorrow say I'm going to start a mentoring program if you don't know what you're doing and unfortunately many clients come to us when they've had a go and it hasn't worked out so you do need some expertise and I guess there's two ways of getting that expertise you can either hire or do it or you have to bring that expertise and resources in from somewhere else so by that I mean for example training so we know from research that if you don't do any training at all at the beginning of a program probably only one in three of those relationships will actually take off if you start training people if you train the mentors for example you probably get about two in three that will work you should only be getting probably about a 10% dropout or failure rate do you have additional material on this sort of research or anything that we could because I'm just thinking there's an opportunity for people to before you leave to complete the survey next to the PowerPoint slide maybe people click on the radio button to find out more from you could we send them that material because I think it's interesting like you said you need to have this expertise but where do you get it and it's not as if I don't know if you might know more about this than I do going out there and looking on LinkedIn for a mentoring program expert I can't imagine that they're everywhere that's right and even if they were I can't imagine they'd be really cost effective for a lot of people who haven't put aside a budget for this so any sort of additional material that we can get from you guys to send to people would be great there's a lot on our website already but anything that anyone wants specifically we're happy to answer questions I just want to quickly on technology so I understand for a lot of organizations the last thing we want is extra technology so you know all of a sudden we've got five different systems to do five different things we've got logins just coming out of our ears and I forget my passwords all the time so at what point does it make sense to invest in this separate technology or should we just keep using something that we're familiar with in an organization so some sort of data management system or something like that? I think where it makes sense is once you get over about 25 pairs even 20 pairs the matching process can be very onerous so the benefit of these platforms is often in the matching some clients say well you know can't we just build a mentoring module our IT people can do it well actually it's not quite that simple so I think that's when it starts making sense often the technologies can be integrated into whatever the other technologies that they have so that's probably when it makes sense to you know and anything under 20 pairs it's probably not worth the cost basically and it can be handled manually quite well okay great okay so now moving on to making sure that something is successful we're in the kitchen we've got the ingredients we're baking this cake which hopefully is going to be amazing when we talk about the critical steps that we need to take so seeing how a program should run what are these critical steps that you speak of? We talk about these seven steps and each one is important you can't skip any of them so the first one is what we call pre-evaluation and research so before you even start thinking about what your program might look like it's a good idea to do a bit of background evaluation and research so check out who else is doing this in the industry what can I learn from them maybe go talk if it's an association go talk to some members do they need it do they want it and if so why and who so a lot of background look on the internet look for resources see what you can find talk to people the next step is then getting ready this is a really important step and one of the biggest things that I think organizations don't do well is defining the purpose of the program so actually getting all the stakeholders that need to be involved in the decision making to get together and actually say look why are we doing this mentoring so it could be because we want to retain people or it could be you know there's a lovely example that we'll talk about later on we do some work with the AVA the vets and we know that young graduate vets are often working in quite isolated circumstances they graduate from university they don't have the normal support networks that they might have otherwise when they go out and get their first job because they might have to go to country town they're a long way from family and friends and suddenly they've lost all their support networks I think AVA has done a wonderful job of providing a mentoring program for those young graduate vets because these mentors are helping them not just settle into their new job but often settle into a new place to live and making friends and creating a new network so I think when you have a purpose like that that's really meaningful it's really easy to recruit people into your program so when you actually want to describe to people come be a mentor or come be a mentee in this program if you've got a really good reason why it's actually really easy to get people on board so I think that's a crucial part of the getting ready stage and then you can have some specific objectives that fall out of that and your design will fall out of that so that's the next phase if you like is well who's going to be in this program what will be the eligibility criteria how are we going to recruit people will we run it face to face or do we need to make it virtual because we might want to make it available for example as Emma does the Mining and Metals Association they have a program for women working in remote mine sites across Australia there's no way everyone's going to fly in for a training or an event so that whole program is run virtually so and it can be quite successful doing it that way so those are the kinds of critical design decisions to make and making sure you have the right people involved in that decision making process is also quite critical so once you've got a design you can then go and communicate and let people know which is what we call the recruitment phase different organizations use different marketing methods to let people know it's on sometimes it's by private invitation but for membership organizations it's probably more traditional advertising and newsletter blasts and it could be an email campaign people apply the next stage is matching people up now sometimes we prefer that people are matched sometimes you can make it an option that people can choose their own mentor I'm a little hesitant about that I don't think people necessarily choose wisely if you think about it I might choose someone that I think I'm going to get on with who might be a lot like me well I'm not sure I'm going to get a lot of learning and stretch from that so I think good matching done by an administrator based on what people have said in an application is often better than people choosing for themselves so what do you match on then do you find someone that's opposite to someone or someone who's got similar goals so that's where the application is critical so we always ask people what do you want to get out of being in a mentoring relationship and we are so we often give them a drop down list that they can choose from and it might be industry specific so they might say look these are the specializations I'm interested in and here's the things that I want to learn and then we ask mentors a kind of matching question which is what do you feel comfortable mentoring on so we use that kind of information and any preferences that people give in their application someone might say look I prefer to be mentored by a woman I prefer to be matched with someone that I can meet with face to face because I prefer that way of communicating so we try and take that into account as much as we can so we match people up we get them in for the program launch we provide some training the training is as I said before to make sure that people's expectations are aligned but also training for mentors is quite important because even experience managers often think well I'm an experienced manager I know how to be a mentor don't I but often they don't actually they've forgotten how to listen and they're good at telling people what to do perhaps but not so good at helping someone think through the issues for themselves so that's what the training is around for mentors we provide support through the program or someone provides support that program manager and then an important step is evaluating so it's not just evaluating the program at the end but it's actually getting feedback all the way along from people to say how you're going do you need help what's working what's not working but then a very good thorough evaluation at the end which then feeds back into your program design so for the next time you run the program how are we going to change things up quite comprehensive yeah it's a lot more than what I thought and I think you know even that matching process in itself is so important and like you said I would assume that people would be able to like you don't recommend going out there and finding their own matches through something but yeah I find it really important that all these steps and I think this is really where that person who is looking after that whole process actually really has to come into control these don't they absolutely yeah and if you leave any of these steps out or you don't do them well that's when programs don't go so well and you know most of it's common sense it's not rocket science actually I think it comes with experience so often we hear of organizations that actually have terrific programs and they've got there by trial but it might have taken them five or six years to get there to do that so just on that how often does it fail well I think if you leave out some of the critical steps you're likely to have a failure on your hands and as I said before you know that's often when clients will call us in and say we know people want mentoring but we haven't been able to make it work but I think if you do these steps and you do them reasonably well you've got a good chance of success now before we go into Q&A I just want to go through because you've got some case studies on some organizations who have done this and done this well and I think that's where we learn best and we can see how other organizations have done this and we can just see you know how how this all works and how has it worked in the past yeah sure well I put these five organizations up on the slide because I think that you know gives a nice cross-section of different mentoring approaches, different designs and for different reasons why they're actually choosing to offer mentoring the first one is New South Wales Law Society I think that's interesting because they've taken a very targeted approach which we really like so they have a young professionals program which is for young lawyers who maybe have a couple of years experience and they're being mentored by more experienced lawyers they have a second program which is for women and that's more mid-career women and helping them navigate through the challenges of being a woman in mid-career that happen in any profession but I know in law it can be quite challenging once you start having a family to actually stay as a lawyer in a law firm and Law Society is about to launch another program for students and graduates so they've actually targeted based on it's really clever and I think what's clever about that is mentoring works really well at different career transition points so that's a time because you're changing role or you're transitioning from one stage of your career to another that's a time when a mentor is really useful and I think Law Society do a really good job of targeting those transition points really nicely and AVE so this is the national big program that we're talking about and I think that's interesting not just because of why they're doing it which I've already talked about but also how they're doing it so whilst it's a national program it's actually delivered on a regional basis so there's a national program manager who oversees the whole thing but the program launch for example is actually run within a state so people get a chance to meet face to face and have that experience of being in a cohort so it's another way to build community which is terrific Amar, the Mones and Metals Association I mentioned that one I think that's interesting because it's completely virtual nobody ever meets not the program managers we do the events for them by webinar and you might have somebody working with somebody in Queensland in a mentoring relationship and they actually never get to meet Does that work? Because I even work in the virtual world I understand that you can never really replace that face to face component so how does that work and is it successful and what sort of things do they do to make sure that they're bringing those elements together Look I think it's not ever going to be 100% successful for everybody there are some people who find working that way is difficult but I would say the overwhelming majority make it work they connect by Skype if they don't like Skype then they switch to telephone they use email they use texting they use chat so they're using all different media It's not just one component It's not just one I think what's really interesting is there's a lot of research suggesting virtual mentoring very effective and in some ways more effective and in some circumstances so I wouldn't rule it out by any means I think given a perfect world people would prefer face to face but if you're a woman working on a remote mind site and there's not a mentor anywhere within 500 miles of you kilometers then what are you going to do? Sydney Uni is an interesting example because this is an organisation that has decided they want to make mentoring available to every faculty in every department within the university Sounds like a challenge I think it is I really like their approach because they're saying we just want a best practice suite of resources that anyone in the organisation can actually use to create their own program so we've helped them create this suite of resources and we're training the people that will be the program managers to actually run their programs at a local level the last one I put up just because I think this is quite unique Toyota I don't know if you know they're closing their manufacturing here in Australia next year well probably everyone's heard of that but marketing and sales until now has been in Sydney but that office will be closed next year and everyone who was working in the Sydney office had to choose do I transition to a role in Melbourne or do I leave the organisation so this mentoring program was put together to help people through those decision points and I think what was really interesting was the mentors were going through the same experience at the same time as their mentees they were just a bit more not experienced as managers and that's great to use mentoring through a change management process or something is great because I think that's what a lot of people struggle with and that's the last thing I would have thought of but now it just makes so much more sense to have someone there rather than your manager to be able to voice your concerns because it's quite an emotional thing for a lot of people too isn't it absolutely and you know all credit to the two women in sales and marketing who said look we think mentoring would help and reached out to us to support that program and they've just got their engagement so they data back to retain the level of engagement right through the last year when people were being told they either had a job or didn't have a job and making those sorts of critical decisions good on them I won't take complete credit with the mentoring program but I think everything Toyota did really help that process okay so we're going to go to some questions now but before we do because I do understand some people might need to take off just how does this all work how much does it cost how do you design it like we said earlier where can people go to to get more help can you just give us a bit of an overview sure well you know you can always search the internet or of course you could come and talk to us obviously we'd love to help people if we can our clients tend to engage with us in three different ways if their needs are quite straightforward they can use a mentoring plan it's a really fast technology enabled way to get them into a mentoring program quite quickly they may just choose to buy some resources from us from our marketplace or if they've got something a bit more complex then we can design something completely bespoke we're very flexible in the way that we work and we want clients to get what they need we've also got a lot of really good information on our website there's a program readiness self assessment which is on our website so if people want to see are we ready for mentoring that's a good way to assess it we've got an e-guide we've just published some research which is available as well we've got two insight reports so there's lots of information there a few different ways to actually get started and to even start investigating this realm which I think is just going to be so much bigger over the next few years and growing I think changing is making the need for mentoring actually grow so that brings us to the end of the formal presentation thank you I think we could talk probably an hour on every single one of those topics that we just discussed I'd now like to go through some questions and ask Melissa her tips for some that have come through if you do need to leave us then thank you so much for joining please feel free to complete that survey on the right hand side of our series as we move forward so first of all just going back and this is from Helga in relation to at the beginning when we were talking about volunteering asking people to be part of this whole process if we rely on people volunteering don't we miss out on some people who are not confident enough to put their hand up and does relying on people putting their own hand up sometimes lead to a lack of diversity in groups in your experience I'd say no to the second half of the question our experience is the people that volunteer usually come from a very diverse cross section I think the answer to the question is what's the alternative because if you're not asking people to volunteer then I guess the only other way of doing it is to say well everybody has to be in the program and we've got experience with clients who've had what we would call a kind of opt out program where everybody has been assigned a mentor and that creates a big problem because not everyone wants a mentor and then the mentors who have probably volunteered get upset because their mentee doesn't contact them so we prefer the volunteer approach and I think people are much more likely to volunteer when there's a kind of program structure that they can be part of if they're not confident they're more likely to do that than to go and approach someone themselves and I guess it's like you said earlier about communicating that why as well if you're doing that properly then you're going to get the right volunteer and you're probably a bigger cross section and diversity of people and I guess that also plays into Sada's question as well so this is also a relation to diversity so how to ensure success in any insight into what works for mentoring for new employees who are perhaps from Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander backgrounds tips for graduate programs which I guess the AVA stuff that we spoke about earlier some more insight into that I think I've run a couple of Indigenous programs that they're really interesting and I think again you might be fooled into thinking well an Indigenous person needs to be mentored by another one and that's not necessarily the case because what they might want to learn particularly if they're new to the organisation is how do things work around here what's the culture and how do things work for people who are not of my background and experience for graduate programs I think the tricky part with graduate programs is actually younger people want to communicate in different ways and I think program managers and mentors need to actually learn about that that maybe they actually want to communicate by text message not necessarily a phone call that you've got to actually be really really clear about what people are signing up for particularly with graduates who understand the time commitment and that they actually stay for the whole journey we do tend to see probably a higher drop out rate with younger people And Tony, so just in relation to third party applications to assist in mentoring remotely so we spoke about Skype webinars, having the ability to blend it with other forms of online communication as well but what's the question you're just asking for other third party applications so that's what you would recommend other than chat systems or anything like that look, I think it's always best where you can to use the technologies that people are already using they're used to it Facebook messenger, why not if people are already using that Skype, FaceTime if they're Mac so I'd be using all of those technologies Yeah, and I guess it also depends on the mentor and the mentee what they're comfortable with otherwise it probably won't work as well as the case scenario And it's a good thing to actually have a discussion right at the beginning and say how do you best like to communicate often people forget to do that and then wonder why, they're not answering my emails what's going on Okay, well that brings us to the end and I'm sure after all of these episodes that we show online 24, 48, even a week after every single one that we hold so please feel free to let us know if you have any questions or forward them straight to Melissa, her email address is on the screen now but closing comments and your number one tip for people online if they want to launch into this webinar program, what's the one thing you would recommend Oh, just do your homework, do good planning, don't rush into it, take your time I think if you don't design a program well, running a poorly implemented program is actually worse than having no program at all That would be my tip Great, well thank you for your time It's been great chatting, I myself have learnt quite a fair bit For those of you who would like to find out more like I said the details are on the screen we do encourage you to complete the survey before you leave and also we look forward to seeing you at future events If you have any ideas or perhaps you are a speaker that would like to come and chat with us feel free to let us know Otherwise, thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of your day, bye for now