 I'm Marcia Joyner, and we are navigating the journey. Navigating the journey is dedicated to exploring the options and choices for the end of life care. And to assist people to talk about their wishes. Over the past six months, we have invited members of various religions and traditions to talk with us about the end of life customs in their culture. Today will be different. Now that the 2017 legislative session has come to a close, we can reflect upon the efforts and advancements, or not, this year and how they will impact Hawaii moving forward. Today, our guest is Representative John Mizuno, the former Vice Speaker of the House of Representatives. And I'm proud to say a supporter of our Medical Aid in Dying Bill. How ever Representative Mizuno's office called and said he is tied up in traffic somewhere. So, what can I say? He'll be here, of course. Now let's talk about the legislature and what has happened or what did not happen for us. As you know, you've been with us all this time, that we were supporting the legislation of Medical Aid in Dying. And the bill is about the choices people make at the end of their lives. All the things we've been talking about. The people get to choose when you have a terminally ill person and the tumor is not going away or the cancer is just getting bigger and there's nothing else to do. The choice is yours. With this bill, the choice is yours. You get to make the choice. Do I want to go through the suffering? Has the suffering become intolerable? Is there another way to do this? And this bill offers an alternative. It is not something that anybody can do, should do. Nobody gets to choose but the patient. The doctor doesn't get to choose. The family doesn't get to choose. The patient gets to choose. Do I want a prescription of something that will ease the pain and have me move on to the next world in peace and comfort? That is all the bill is about. It is not about getting rid of grandma. It is not about getting rid of people with all kinds of disabilities. Old age is not a terminal illness. I'm 79, that's not a terminal illness. People that are disabled with handicaps, that's not a terminal illness. So all of those things that you've heard about the bill, forget. Just forget it. It is not those things. This is just about the patient's choice to choose what they want and how they want. And that's all we've been talking about. The last six months we've talked about the different cultures, the different religions, the different traditions and how they choose and what they choose at the end of life. We heard the Buddhists talk about the appreciation ceremony that they have at the end of life. Before the patient leaves this world, before the family, this is at home and they have an appreciation ceremony where they talk to the patient and they tell them all the loving things and what it meant to them before they pass. Not after, not a funeral, but before, so the person knows. We talked to the Imam who says about in the Muslim tradition they sing and they pray and they tell stories to the patient before they move on. And all of these different religions, all of the different traditions have a way of doing this. And so we are back to the choice, the choice that people have or don't have. And so the bill is about the choices. It is nothing else. You can't coerce anybody into doing something. In fact, in the bill if you do coerce, it is a class A felony. But you know, people talk about that. If someone is determined to do something ugly to get rid of somebody they will find a way to do it. They don't need this bill. We read about it every day in the paper on the news about somebody getting rid of a relative. You don't need this bill. This bill is not about that. In fact, if you do coerce, if you do something to the patient it's a class A felony. Well let's look at that. Okay, hospice, palliative care. They're wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. And I do recommend hospice. However, if there was someone that wanted to get rid of the patient while they're in hospice, there's a lot of time when the patient is alone. They can do anything they want to do to get rid of the patient and nobody would know the difference. When the person has passed hospice signs the death certificate saying that it was cancer or whatever it was and there are no autopsies, no one knows. So if a person wants to do something, they can do it. People find a way of getting rid of someone. Also in the bill it says that the witnesses to the person making this request, signing the declaration cannot be a person that's going to inherit anything from them. It is not about them. It is about the patient. It is about the request. So we have to talk about it and to make it real clear, real clear that this is the patient's choice, not anyone else's choice. If you look at terminal sedation, terminal sedation, which is what so many people say is okay, is not okay. That's the doctor's choice. That is not the patient's choice. The doctor says, okay, make them comfortable. Let's make them comfortable. They start giving them these heavy drugs until they disappear. That's not the patient's choice. That's the doctor's choice. So when we come back, when we come back, we want to talk to Representative Mizuno and about the rest of the legislature. And we'll be back in a minute. Hi, I'm Carol Cox. I'm the new host of Eyes on Hawaii. Make sure you stay in the know on Hawaii. Join us on Tuesdays at 12 noon. We will see you then. Aloha. Aloha. My name is Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. And I'm the host of Shrink Rap Hawaii, where I talk to other shrinks. Did you ever want to get your head shrunk? Well, this is the best place to come to pick one. I've been doing this. We must have 60 shows with a whole bunch of shrinks that you can look at. I'm here on Tuesdays at 3 o'clock every other Tuesday. I hope you are too. Aloha. Hi, and we're back. And we are with Representative John Mizuno, the former vice speaker of the House of Representatives. He was first elected to the House in 2006, representing District 30. And as a caveat, I was out campaigning for him, even when I didn't know him. Anyway, after redistricting, he became representative for District 28, winning more than 70% of the vote in 2012. Mizuno has served as the chair of the Human Services Committee and also House Majority Whip. And prior to being elected, he was an administrative judge in California. Did I get that right? A special investigator in Hawaii and a legislative aide to Representative Dennis Arakaki and a graduate of the University of Hawaii and a woman who I met, University College of Law. So welcome. Thank you. Welcome, welcome. And for those of you that don't know, I can't imagine there's anybody that doesn't know, you have chaired every committee and your work with youngsters and all of those committees. Tell us, first of all, thank you for coming. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me, by the way. And so where do we start? Tell us, tell me about you. You, just you. What makes you want to do what you do? Because I know the salary isn't that great. So what makes you want to give like you do to do what you do? The list of committees and outside activities just takes up all of your time. So what's that about? Thank you so much. And yeah, it's not for the pay obviously. The benefit we have to make a positive difference to be a game changer for Arakaki, Arakapuna are disabled, are homeless. People that have been marginalized, that's priceless. That's a once in a lifetime gig that you can get. And so we all have term limits. The day that they vote us out, that's our term limit. And Good Lord has given me a nice window of opportunity and I've done my best to run with it. Again, the focus will be on our keiki, Arakapuna are disabled, are homeless. Again, people that have been marginalized at the same time supporting small business and our beautiful state of Hawaii. Speaking of marginalized, when I first met you, I think after we campaigned for you Thank you by the way. I didn't know who in the world this kid was because he was a kid. I don't know, but we were out there for you. However, I think the first time we really worked together was for the Marshallese. Speaking of marginalized people. And I guess standing up to... The governor and the director? And the director, yes. Standing up to them. And having them look at the Marshallese as real people, not cofa, not them, real people. I think that was the start of a beautiful partnership and relationship with you, Marsha Rose. You and I took a very difficult stance. It's unfortunate, but there's still discrimination in a paradise of molten pot like Hawaii. Some of our people have disdain to our Micronesian people. And at the time, Governor Lingo and her director, Kolar, they were going to stop all health care benefits to our citizens, our compact citizens. Marshall Islands, yeah, Marshall Micronesians. Basically, they're going to cut out health care. Now, these are the people that were getting chemotherapy, the people that were getting dialysis treatment. I surmise if you stop your chemotherapy or your dialysis treatment, you're going to die. There was no other way. You and I were joined hip and hip in that fight. And we fought a very valiant fight against Governor Lingo and against the director of Human Services, Director Kolar. And Judge Seabright found in our favor, it was sound versus Kolar. And in the federal district court, Judge Seabright, we're in our favor. We were able to save thousands of lives because of that. And I'll never forget that. Thank you. We really were connected from that point on. And it seemed to me that we were out there by ourselves. I'm sure we weren't, but it seemed, it felt like it. It felt like it because it wasn't a popular issue at the time and it still is today. There's a little bit of negative stigma with our people who are Micronesian descent. And the point is, we bombed that area. 67 atomic blasts. Project Bacchini was out of this world. It annihilated and poisoned with radiation. There's sea, there are lands and everything. And so the U.S. government was not without sin. And we have great debt to pay and we needed to address that. But to cut off someone's dialysis treatment, they're going to die. And so I couldn't stand back on the sidelines to do nothing. I was so honored that you joined me. And at a point that was only you and I that was... It didn't seem like it. And Victor Geminiani from Aposite, only us three. Aposite, yes. And it seemed very lonely at the time. It did. It did. I wrote an article, murder she wrote. And it was about exactly that. And everybody was saying, oh, you shouldn't do that. Don't do this. No, no, no, no. We've got to say it. We've got to say it. Absolutely. Yeah. So now you are... What you were, vice speaker, what does a vice speaker do? Basically, you're second in command out of the 51 members. So when speaker's not in, you're signing all the committee reports of what have you. Approvals, approval slips, people that are going to be taking legislative trips. You're approving that, day-to-day operations, what have you. In addition, you're also working to keep the caucus together, many times during the session. And even during the interim, there's some small little fires that you have to put out here and there. And so really, it's a different mindset. You're not in charge of a committee. However, you kind of are responsible for the entire caucus and trying to keep the members happy, but legally within the bounds of law. And so that's what we really do. The caucus, because there's only six people that aren't Democrats in the House, that's a big caucus. Absolutely. You are correct. And so you have all these different factions in the caucus? Yes, yes. Because a Democratic group is so big, we are the super majority. There's a little infighting, to be honest. Was that what this last takeover was? No, I think honestly, and God bless Speaker Suki. He's the only guy that's been Speaker twice in the House of Representatives history, so that he's lived a legendary political career. I just love the guys as my father. Nevertheless, I believe that the members just wanted a new direction and a change. So it wasn't so much infighting. It was just that the time had come where we needed to move to a new chapter in the book at the legislature. Unfortunately, we had to do that, and that's what happened. I still love Speaker Suki. Oh, I do too. He's been a friend of mine. We had our battles over the years, but we always came out as friends. Oh, in fairness, I disagreed with him too. And he allowed me to express myself in closed doors. He allowed me to fight, and then he'd smile, and it was... He likes a good challenge. Yes. So between now and when October, what happens because we are a biennial audience? No, we're a bicameral, but we have every year... No, the two-year biennial. Oh, you're right. Okay, this is the 29th legislature. Right, and so you have two sessions within this one... Legislature. Yeah. You are absolutely correct. So the odd year is the beginning, and the even year is the election. You're a political whiz. So what happens in these months between the actual legal session? What are you doing? Great question, excellent question. We're going to regroup. We're going to look at all the controversial bills that came before us, many of the bills that didn't pass, and we're going to review them and see is it worth taking it up again because it's been an odd button issue and it seems like the entire state are clamoring for certain bills and issues to be heard. It doesn't mean we're going to pass it, but at the end of the day, if this is what the people want and we represent the people of Hawaii, we should listen to their concerns and at least give a fair hearing on a number of these bills that are still right now, either deferred but still alive in the committee. So if it's deferred, like our pet and everybody that watches us knows that it's about medical aid and dying, so it's been deferred. What happens? Does the same committee go back to the same committee? Can you move it to another committee? Excellent question. Why go back to the same committee if it's the same people with the same attitudes? Well, you know, you bring up some very good points and there's a number of legal mechanisms that you could do. One would be to pull that bill, the Senate bill out of the health committee and have a vote on the floor in order to do that. I think you need at least 17. I had the numbers well broken down. 17 to pull it and then 26 to pass. At least 26, a majority to pass it. Now, it's kind of difficult because now it's as if you don't have the trust of your health care and so you're going to hurt the health chairs, not only feelings, but it just doesn't look good. Then, there's no guarantee that judiciary will hear the bill. So even if you were to do a, you'll pull it out of committee and vote it on the floor and hypothetically, just say that we had 26 that supported it or more. They would move on their judiciary. There's no guarantee that judiciary chair will hear that bill or pass it out of his committee. And the same thing happens. Even if he did, we'd have to vote it on the floor again and then the Senate would have to agree our amendments or it'll go to conference. Chances are with a bill this big, it'll go to conference. We really need to vet it and make sure it's proper. The other thing though, very good point, with a bill that has such a wide ranging magnitude to the people of Hawaii, and if we were to pass something as historic as this, I believe Hawaii would be the seventh state with compassion and dying for our patients that are in a bad situation. It would probably be prudent to maybe introduce a new bill from the House, start a new with, unload it with as many safeguards as you can, because to me the game is not on the Senate, it's in the House because the Senate easily passed it, was it 22 to 3? Yeah. That tells me that 85, 90% of the Senate's on board. The House is where the question mark lies. And so because we have such a contentious bill, not for the Senate, but for the House, it might be prudent to launch a House bill with all the proper protections in there, talk to the health committee members and of course Speaker Psyche and the leadership team. If it's their will, perhaps we hear a new bill and even though some people may have reservations, they feel that it has enough safeguards, it may just get out of the health committee. If it does, it goes to a floor vote and it goes to a judiciary. Those are the two big committees it needs to pass, health and if it passes health judiciary. Then it'll go to the Senate. They will disagree with our amendments because they're going to put some of their own amendments in there and conference should this come up in 2018. So, well, I still have an issue about if we had the same people on the health committee that had issues the last time, why are we doing this again? Another good question, Marshall. Another good question and I got two answers for you. First, as you know, Della Bellotti was a chair of health and we just think the world of her, she's an outstanding leader. She's now going to be the new vice speaker. So, you're going to have a new health chairman and it will be publicized soon enough. Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry. So, with the new chairman, you may also get new committee members. Oh, that's where I was going with this. That's dynamic change. That's a dynamic change. If we just change the chair and we still have these same people, then what good is it? And why? Okay. So, you have a new chairman. You have one or two new committee members which may change the vote. That would flip. If it's a 3-4 or 4-3, if you add one or two other members, it could be a 5-3 voting favorable bill. That's a dynamic change. Second, the content, I think at this point, if we're going to introduce a bill of such magnitude, all the safeguards are in there so that the health committee members would feel a little better. Some of them might vote with reservations, but nevertheless, that's the key. If we can move it out of health, it'll probably pass the floor vote and then go to judiciary and judiciary will probably pass it. That's just a rough count. So, yes, the dynamics can be changed and it's not only the new chair. More importantly, we may have new members because if we don't change the content and put enough safeguards, we're still going to have those 3-4-5 voters against it. Let's assume we rewrite and do all the things you're saying. Whatever that is, and sometimes it's just a word here and a word there. Now, but I have been campaigning and so have other people to have a doctor on the health committee. We have an elected doctor. Why don't we have a doctor on the health committee? We could, I believe though, because Dr. Craig in chair's agriculture, it conflicts with this time. And he's a founder. It can't go on at the same time. I think it's a morning bracket committee and so Health and Human Services morning bracket. They meet at the same time his committee meets. That's the conflict because he was on the health committee before. I think he was a vice-chair. But once he got his own committee as agriculture chair, it's the time's conflict and so he had to take that over health. And since he's a chair of agriculture, I think he's going to stay there. Oh, oh, sweet. No, no, well, never. That's why it's great that we have the interim because now we can name a new chairman for the health committee and possibly one or two new members and it's a game changer. The dynamics are changing. And so when you talk to the members that would have voted no and tell them how these safeguards have been in place, would you change your vote to yes or WR? Todd said he would. Todd would. I think you have two or three others that would. So again, it's a game changer and it's a dynamics of everything. So I wouldn't rule it out. I will say this, in an election year it's very difficult to get a controversial bill heard and only 10% on the average bills that are introduced pass. That's a 90% chance that our bill will not pass. Well, we are going to put together a cadre of voters to give comfort to those who will take this chance or to defeat those who don't. So thank you for coming. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you, thank you, thank you for always being there and we look forward to whatever comes of your new venture in the legislature, however that works out. But you'll let us know, right? I'll definitely let you know. You keep in touch. Once it's made public you'll be one of the first that I call. Okay, now where is your office? I'm in room 439 fourth floor on the state capitol. Still on the fourth floor. Still on the fourth floor. You can always find the mushrooms. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure spending this time with you. It's been my honor always working with you and I enjoy how we work things out and talk and we even in a nice way challenge each other. But it makes us better so I've always been glad to work with you, my friend. Thank you, thank you. Aloha and we'll see you next week.