 this as well. Oh, oh good. You need to link. Yeah, so let me get that for him. It is okay. Leading link. Enter and is this. Let's see, where is the Gitter channel? Oh, no, it's not. That's embarrassing. I had prepared the thing to post and then failed to post it. 30 minutes ago I prepared it to post and then failed to post it. Shame on me. Finish what you started. Okay, so embarrassing. That's awkward beyond words because it wasn't available until I just posted it there. Sorry. All right. Sorry about that, Jonathan. Hello. Thank you for the link, Mark. I wasn't finding it. My apologies. I thought I had I had failed to press return in Gitter. So I was sitting in my buffer ready to go and it had been there for 30 minutes. Okay. All right. Sorry about that. So proposed agenda. Hacktoberfest progress webinar top of the list. Hacktoberfest progress report. Doctor for tutorials. Terminology fixes progress. Any other things that we would like to put on the agenda? Jonathan, would you like a chance to review wiki, wiki migration progress? No, I guess it's okay. Okay, great. Meg, anything that you want to add? Nope. All right. So I've got a slide deck that I've drafted stealing liberally from a deck that Oleg Nanashiv did last year. It looks like this. If you don't like your picture, propose a change. If you don't like something else, propose a fix. I think there's great pictures, by the way. Yeah, well, they're all stolen from Twitter. So yeah. So if you don't like the picture, you're welcome to replace it with a different one. I'd like to be 20 or 30 years younger, but I really don't want teenagers again. So that's a different problem. And give up all that accumulated wisdom there. No, no, no, no. That's never assumed, right? You go back in time, but you remember everything. So this is the deck. And I'm reasonably comfortable with the pieces that Oleg will present at the start here. I assume he'll take 15 or 20 minutes to talk through general contributions. Then Jonathan, I put three slides in for you as proposals. One looking at what we looked like in August, all this big loop of things that didn't have any issue. And then what we look like today with much, much better progress. And then give you a slide to talk about, this is how easy it is to use a GitHub issue. You're welcome. That's amazing. So you are already done. I'll work. Thank you. Well, if this helps you, that's great. You should do your own, you should decide what you want to save. But my thought was, those are the things that if you want to use those, you're welcome to. If not, you can put whatever you'd like in. Yeah, it's amazing. It's exactly how hard I print to create some slides. Great. Okay. So, and you should plan to not spend more than, say, three to five minutes, because we want to highlight that this was not zero effort. This took work for us to get ready for this. We want them to know it's not free. It is not no cost for us to do this work, to get ready for Hacktoberfest. But we've got some good techniques and we think it welcomes them. Okay. Then Vlad, yours, I just put a slide in what I think the steps are and the demonstration. You can choose what you'd like to put in. It's all yours. Thank you. And just migrate. Go ahead. Just a question, Mark. Do we have any limitation like we need hard to stop in one hour or there is some flexibility? What do you think? So, we've got some flexibility. We generally allow ourselves up to 90 minutes. The audience tends to fade away at about 70 minutes. And so, if we've reached 60 and haven't yet gotten into questions and answers, what I will do is I will probably short circuit this migrating plugin documentation section and point them to the videos we've already recorded of this same material. So, what I'm talking about here in migrating plugin documentation is actually not new material. We've recorded it multiple times and I can give them links to it. Whereas, running Jenkins.io, building it locally, is something we've not shown them before. So, we want to be sure you have time to do that. Thanks much for good, if you like. And so, I've added, I've inserted something about the steps you do and a demonstration. I'll choose a plugin and migrate it live because it's a good hint. And I'm sure Oleg will help us and remind, oh, you should do this. Think about that. And we'll have a good dialogue. Those kind of things are always lots of fun. Watching me type on screen is a little spooky sometimes. And then we end. Okay. So, the entire session will be near for 60 minutes or more then? So, the entire session will be likely 60 minutes and it might go as much as 75 minutes. It depends if we get question and answer. Now, if you need to exit early, you are welcome to exit, Jonathan. You don't have to feel obligated like you need to give more than that. I know it's the middle of your working day and so it could be really challenging. Yeah, exactly because I expect. Thank you. Yeah. And so, don't worry about, if you need to exit, you're welcome to exit at any time, especially if your employers said, hey, we'll give you one hour. Great. If you can give us the hour, that's wonderful. We will make sure that your time slot is within that 60 minutes. Vlad, same applies to you. If you've got something where your schedule just won't allow you to go beyond an hour, Oleg and I can generally handle question and answer after the one hour time if needed. Well, it will be seven in the morning, my time, so I'm free at that time. That's right. Work does not usually start in California at 7 a.m. That's right. I like that. Okay. All right. So, Mark, the idea is, for example, you show the slide on screen and we just talk. Correct. For your portion, that was my assumption anyways, is I'll be running the screen and showing and you'll just talk to the topic and you can tell me when you'd like to advance the next slide or I'll make my best guess. Okay. Now, if you would like to show a demonstration, we could allow that. I'd assume your piece likely wouldn't get a demonstration because you don't have enough, you don't quite have enough time to do an effective demonstration. Yeah. I guess it's enough just so the graph is because the charts, because we talk to people how we work to prepare the good fist issue for Advent and for their first contribution. So, I guess it's enough. Great. All right. Now, Vlad, for you, you'll actually have to take over screen sharing to do the demonstration. And I'll just state, okay, I'm going to stop sharing my screen and Vlad let you share yours so you'll take it over at that time. Any other questions, concerns, or topics on the session for Wednesday? And go to our next topic, I think. So, if you need to see the outline, you're welcome to it. It's here. That's the skeleton outline that I used to describe it. And then the meetup itself is also linked. And if you could, on your social media tomorrow, promote it, that would be a great help because about 24 hours prior to the meetup, it's really good that each of us as presenters shares on social media, hey, I'll be presenting this thing so that our audience, our followers, are reminded, oh yeah, that's tomorrow. And I'll do that tomorrow about this time right now. Okay. Sounds good. The progress report. Next topic. We've got GitHub issues that prior to Wednesday, I'm going to need to triage some more issues. I'm going to need to review some more issues because we've made such good progress on the good first issues that Jonathan had created for us that we need to get a fresh set. And you see this blue line here. Those are the ones that need the second, the review, my review, and I'll review and update. And that way we'll have a whole new set of new good first issues. Right now, we're down to, let's take a look, how many total good first issues? We only have 10 open good first issues. And I think we started with 25 or more, if I remember correctly. And of these 10, it looks like only one or two are not assigned. So we'll, before, before Wednesday's webinar, I'll try to assure that we have another 10 or 15 good first issues in this list. Thanks very much, Jonathan, for creating those issues so that we have them to start. Yeah, that's welcome. And another interesting point about the kind of good first issues about the head direct one, it's everyone can execute then just inside of GitHub. So you can edit the file inside the GitHub, change the content and just submit the PR. It's a plus. It is. And I think that's a, that is a compelling plus, because you don't even have to have a Jenkins account to do this. You don't have to have local IDE. You don't have to have local development. There are so many things that, that having good GitHub issues makes life much, much better. Absolutely. Yeah, so maybe in the end, it's a good thing to show to audience. Good point. Yeah. See the close. If I remember, it's almost 15 good first issues. Almost. Oh, very good. I was just going to do a quick count of the number we've closed in 12 days. Yeah, I call 10, I list them and their previous meeting. It's 14, 9, 49 issues. 49 issues that have been closed in. No, it's a, I live then ready for good first issues. It's a, I see. Now we're giving sessions. Yes. Okay. 49 new issues created, 100 different five issues open. And I wanted to see the, so let me just do a fast. Let's see, there should be no way to ask. No, I don't see it. So anything closed less than 12 days ago. So it's to right here. So it looks like 20 plus in October. Excellent. Wow. That's good. Big victory. Yeah. And after it's a good to know how many new members send with PRs. Right. And that one, I've got, I've actually got metrics and maybe we got to look at those metrics. That would be fun. Just to see because we've got metrics. Where do I have the metrics? In this document that we maintain this, the official sig meeting that we have once a month, there is a, oh, that's right. Here's the easy way to do it. Let's just do a one month view. So in the last one month, we've closed 37 issues, Merch 65 pull requests. So now a month, that's, that's more than just October fest, but in the last week, we've closed 11 Merch 11 pull requests and closed 12 issues. So easily 20 plus. And then the graph here, just to show that we're also doing a good job at responding to people as they arrive. Our time between first submission of a PR and first comment from someone other than the author is less than half an hour median. Less than six hours for 85% of requests. And bang. Congratulations for our. That is impressive. Bang. And this is a great, this is a great, this is a fun graph that at times is terrifying because a year ago it was taking us three weeks to get the 85% tile. And now we're, we're down to less than a day. And on the, yeah, in fact, we haven't been at three days since early 2020s for about six months. We haven't been above one day to respond. That's good. Excellent. Do we know the geography for which people are contributing? These, this, that's a good question for this particular site because it has a whole set of attempts to guess who the contributors are and how I don't know that it has anything about geography, but it's got, for instance, information about companies trying to make a guess as to which piece contributors are coming from which company. And, and so, so it's, it's certainly got those kinds of things in it. I don't think I've ever seen anything about geographic location. I was just wondering, I'm thinking that say submitters in India might have a longer response time because Americans are in bed at the time or something. Right, right. That makes sense. And, But those are still pretty impressive numbers. Yeah. And, and, and certainly getting the 85th percent, well, what that may hint also is we need more contributors from, from the Far East and particularly the Indian subcontinent. We know we've got lots of users there, but we're not, not getting, we don't see nearly as many contributors. And we certainly, for instance, we don't have a mirror site in India. And that would be a logical place to have a Jenkins mirror. We've got them in China and in Japan, three in Europe. As another example, we don't have anything in South America as a mirror site. And so each of them. How about Australia? Do we have one in Australia? Nope, not one there either. And so, so there are plenty of places where, you know what, we've got more things we need to do. So the Hacktoberfest Progress Report. Thank you very much, Jonathan. Thanks for your work preparing good first issues. And it's looking promising. The next step is a four or eight hour block for me to review those issues, the new more issues so that we've got a better list of good first issues for the next round. Anything else on Progress Report? Okay, next topic then. Docker for tutorials. Vlad, tell us how that's going. Share with us what you're, what you're learning and. Well, it's very interesting, very exciting. And I'm learning how to, well, create a customized Docker image and make it available in our tutorials. And let me share the process how I just attempted to fix this issue. It was long standing issue that we're using not official Docker image in our documentation on our site on Jenkins.io. And so I attempted different ways of trying to figure out how to solve this problem. And well, found that one way of doing this is by customizing Docker image. By customizing Docker image, I was running all different tutorials, and it was successful. We're specifically calling Docker statement from pipeline, declarative pipeline. So making sure that Docker command is available inside our image. And the next challenge was to make sure that it may be nicely fit inside our documentation, which, as we now try to use, don't forget yourself, try principle. So it is only once. For instance, Docker portion and a lot of different reference to that portion from different chapters in the computation. So it was a challenge. And I addressed, I guess, this in tutorial section. And another request, which I guess, well, pull request, which is approved, but not merged yet, about doing this fix inside installation Jenkins chapter. There is also Docker chapter inside installing. And well, for reasons, I guess, there are two different, several different files which separate tutorial section and installing Jenkins. And so I modified both of them, a little bit different qualifications, because later I figured out that we're using many of our well, tutorials and, you know, materials on Jenkins.io, we're using Blue Ocean plugin. And so maybe it makes sense to put Blue Ocean plugin in the customized Docker image, which we are referring to, and using this technique. And so you did that. You cut, you've actually included the Blue Ocean plugin as part of the custom image that they're taught how to construct. Right. But I included this only in the pull request, which is not yet merged. So it's, and actually I'm using that technique, which you showed on our previous office hours. Take your mark for doing this. Again, this is like putting this new plugin, not inside plugin dot text, but please inside the command. So it will be just since we're talking about just one plugin. So we can just put this one plugin inside this new customized Docker image. Well, this was interesting kind of experience, interesting experiment. And I'm glad that the list tutorial is merged is merged to the real pull request related to Docker image. And of course, there is much more to do. It is, I guess, not final, a lot of different improvements, which can be done. For instance, in the tutorial where I would say our tutorial section is not consistent completely. So as with any program, it is like every program, it has at least one box. So there is way for improvement in any section. And well, maybe I'm thinking maybe sometime in the future making video, I like very much how on BlueOcean we have series of two minute videos created by by personally was Liam Neumann. The Jenkins minute videos. Yeah. And I like them so much. They are very brief. They are very instructive, very precise. And well, they contain everything what is needed. I use them for my first, actually during my first BlueOcean based Jenkins file and like making sure that it works in BlueOcean plugin. And I like this very much. And I think maybe repeat this experience. The only stuff that these videos are referred only in BlueOcean section. So this, there is some inconsistency and maybe later we can address in our later discussions. I do want to refer to just videos because we have combination of videos and text. And maybe it should be both something or both. But yeah, it's up to you or to go on as far to decide what would be the most appropriate and how to address this. But yeah, right now BlueOcean videos, they kind of stand alone because they're like not very well fit me for the rest of the documentation. But I liked the content. I liked the presentation very much. Yeah. Well, just sharing my thoughts and like what, what I like about this documentation and everything. No wrong. So that was my experience basically on doing that. We did develop some training material sort of based on those videos working with Liam at the time. A couple of warnings. That material, I don't know that he's updated. It is a little bit outdated. I don't think anything in it is wrong, but I think there's missing things like the, oh God, what is it? There's a version of the snippet generator that works for declarative now. Right. So there are plenty of gaps where we could do more of those one minute or two minute videos and people would likely be delighted with the snippet generator, the declarative generator, how to use the online help more effectively. Those three are, I think, hidden treasures that people just don't know exist in Jenkins until somebody shows them, look, this is how easy it is. You didn't have to go read six feet of documentation. You didn't have to read long detailed documentation. You just needed to click here and life was easier. But we don't, I don't think we've got a Jenkins minute for either of those. And yeah, that's a certainly a weakness. Now, Vlad, I was curious, did you encounter any problems in terms of multi-platform? Because if I remember right, you've got Windows and possibly Mac OS. Which places did you use to run the tutorials as you were developing them? Well, before actually publishing, well, before making this PR and I'm not sure how you will approve this approach or not, I tested kind of this approach on my Mac and on Windows also on Windows machine. So it was not virtual. It was physical, like different hardware, which we tested and it worked on both like running. And again, it was more like smoke-sensitive test. It was not very sophisticated integrated test, which runs for many hours, which I guess you are using in development. I looked at that, at least in testing dimension. Well, it takes a lot of time, but it was just a small test, verified that it works initially for tutorial for people who will try to teach themselves. And so after that, I posted. Excellent. So you had already verified that it worked on Windows and Mac, and therefore you've probably already tested. Windows is commonly the most challenging and Mac has some interesting side notes. Linux is therefore highly likely to already work just fine. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. And I was not sure about Windows because, well, Docker was not just recently implemented on Windows, I mean, officially, because there were usually problems with Dockerize and different things on Windows platform. It worked over there. So I'm glad. That is great. Very good. Any other questions, any questions from anyone else to Vlad? One thing I was going to say is that the training materials are freely available to anybody. There might be stuff there. You could know that the training materials need rework, but there might be things you could feel that would be useful for you. Cool. And I'm not sure. So Vlad, do you know which training materials she's referencing? Because they're actually a CloudBees product, not a Jenkins project product, but the courses themselves are available at no charge. Well, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding that you are referencing CloudBees University and I attempted to complete it. I completed like fundamental courses, pre-courses on CloudBees. I couldn't pass the certification exam, but yeah, I saw these materials. Yeah. The classes got good data work, but there's some good slides in there with you. And if you want to ask you, Dr. Source, Mark, can we do that under the table? I always have to ask permission before I can give anything away. So source code, proprietary things, stay proprietary until we get permission otherwise. Well, today, yesterday I looked at CloudBees documentation and I found that CloudBees documented exactly the same approach which I was using while running Docker image. Well, very similar. I didn't compare exact notation, but well, it was encouraging use that well, they're using different images, of course, but the way how they run, it is very similar. Okay. Please do notice this. And Vlad, all knowledge you are writing and studying, it's related to Jenkins IO. There is in some place there to everyone check or it's another site. Where is it published? It was published on our Jenkins.io. We have a tutorial section on our site. So the tutorial sections in the use build tools. Right. Yes. So I'll embed the link to it. Because it's, I think it's quite elegant. And it's, for example, build a Java app. Here, let's just do it this way. I believe it's the entire using build tool section. And there are four tutorials that use the materials. Okay. Thank you. And again, this is just for tutorials. I think I mentioned that like put note asking people not to use it for production environment. It is just for tutorials to let people get familiar like how to use Jenkins inside Docker and from there how to use all options of declarative pipelines. Well, all I can just, all just Docker option. Thank you. Any other topics on Docker for the tutorials? Well, there is, I think I, there is inconsistency I mentioned. I didn't mention another port in for Linux tutorials, but mentioned another port in Windows. And I'm not sure do we need another port just for tutorials? My understanding not. But I thought I saw somewhere they want to mention another port. I'm talking about JNLP port, what we usually say discute a thousand. Yeah, I don't know about, I would, I don't know if that one is required, but if I recall correctly, when I worked on the Python tutorial, it because of the, one of the utilities it was using, Pypy installer, it needed some additional, some additional thing that the other tutorials didn't need. But I haven't, I haven't been back to that tutorial in quite a while. So there may in fact be an extra port needed for that one. I'm not sure on the agent port. To be honest, Mark, how I tested these implementation, I, at some point of time, well, probably one or two years ago, for this simple Java Mavin app, which we have, it was in different directory. And I extended this and put Python stuff inside, put different other things, some testing frameworks and combined Python, Java, Mavin, everything inside one, and did it multiple branch. And I was using this Jenkins file in that multi branch repository. It was mine repository, which I used to test this approach. And even with one port, it was a key run completely, all tests were, I mean, yeah, all this, not test, but entire pipeline was completed. So excellent. So that tells us then that the Docker and Docker technique that you used in the tutorial segments did not require a separate agent port. It was somehow establishing the Docker image execution. That's very nice. That's great. So we don't have the complexity of one more port in the command line, one more port to explain why very good. My understanding that it was those agents which are called during the declarative pipeline were ephemeral agents. And it was communicating using socket connection, which we used during running Docker. This is my understanding, but great. Very good. And Mark and Vlad, I was visiting a link in jinx.io on our site, and I sent it in the chat. So maybe it should be interesting to put some link for Vlad work on that page, because it's specific to work with Docker. I don't know. Just to link and page another. But yes, that's a very good suggestion. Yes, because when I go to tutorials, there is no word Docker on title. So I can figure out if it's specific about Docker or not. So if we link the work in that page, specific page about Docker, maybe help more users. Right, right. So I like that because the tutorials are teaching specific techniques, like Maven and Python and Node, but they're using Docker to do it. And so we don't do a lot of highlighting who this is Docker, because what we're trying to get them to show them is look, Maven is easy and Node is easy, but you're right, we should link to, we should remind them that, hey, this is also Docker. Yeah, in the Google, if you search about Jenkins plus Docker, that solutions slash Docker page, it's show as a result. So to get more visibility for Vlad works, maybe it's good to put all the links there. I like that. Yeah, that's especially since, well, I'm on screen, you'll see this getting started. Oh, no, you don't. I'm not sharing my screen. Let me show my screen. I'll show you my that solutions page because there's an example here. It's got the getting started. And at the bottom of that is Jenkins plus Docker tutorial. The tutorials that are in Jenkins.io are actually much better than this Jenkins Docker tutorial. Exactly. So we should just link to, hey, the Maven Maven and Docker, Python and Docker, Node.js and Docker, and they are, they're actually, I think, superior to this, especially because this one goes to medium.com, which is now a paywall based site. So you, you only get to look at a certain number of articles a month before they charge you. Whereas if we point to our own documentation, it's absolutely free to the reader. So this link is appointed for medium. It is. Right. So that, that jumps, that jumps outside of our site. Yes, that page, that page pay you out. It's really problematic. It's really not annoying for us. Right. Yes. Anything else on Docker tutorials? I guess not. Okay. Next, next topic then. Terminology fixes progress. Vlad, do you want to, to share with us how that's going? Terminology fixes. Well, I fixed. Yeah, actually, those are your issues. And thank you very much. It was so detailed, so precise. You mentioned the files, which need to be changed. And I just attempted to fix it, but there was another person I didn't notice who was assigned to this issue. I guess a couple of days ago, I tried to fix it on Friday. Didn't notice that he was assigned. And I like provided comment while there are more issues which we need to fix. So like to tell the truth, I was doing this fix regarding mapping master to controller, not mapping, but replacing master with controller, which we agreed, I guess, some time ago. And, well, did this fix, but realized that this person wanted to do this at some point of time. So I extended this issue with another set of issues and use your issue kind of template, where you specify different files, where we need to modify. And the same with whitelist term, where we need to, well, we agree to replace whitelist with allow list, for instance, provided different files. I guess I was referring to developer documentation. There is developer documentation section, which has several files. But this was never implemented because I guess the PR was merged without implementing this. I thought that this person who assigned will be implementing, but it looks like there are different other circumstances. So what I'm thinking, I can, for instance, create separate issue, again, doing this list. And during our presentation on Wednesday, how to fix it, for instance, this is one option in case. Oh, that's, yeah, that would be a good example of, hey, we're going to build the Jenkins.io site. I'm going to fix one item of terminology and then let's look at it. Good, I like that. Yeah, I, go ahead. Just Mark, I wanted to mention that when we're building the site and creating this local Docker image for running this site, it takes some time. So I'm just going to show how to do this, the make file, where, but I think I will not, at least not build this Docker image boost. Build, I will just run it. So, like running takes less time than building because there's not to waste that people's audio. Right, well, and if you get to a point where you need, where something needs to take some time, I will happily involve you in a conversation at that point, asking you questions or doing things that will distract the audience a little bit with, with, oh yes, I can answer that question while this is doing its building process. So, so just don't be, don't be dismayed if when, when something starts compiling, Oleg or I, or even Jonathan, interject and ask you a question. Hey, could you explain this a little bit while this is building? It's a good excuse for you to be able to then talk a little bit more about a topic while the build is proceeding, while the whatever, whatever process is executing. Thank you, Mark. Thank you for the, for your support. And I, one of the things that I observed, I did a terminology fix in Jenkins Core and it was, it felt like I was almost unraveling a ball of string. It felt like I was pulling on one thing and all of a sudden all sorts of other things popped out. Oh, I have to think about that. And I have to think about that because the code change that I made was, it was only changing master to controller in the slave to agent or the agent to master configuration or access control page. I thought, oh, that's easy. I can do that in minutes. And my, I was just absolutely wrong. It was scary how wrong I was because of all the things I had to, oh, it's also translated. And it exists in Russian and Hungarian and Turkish. And I can't do it. I speak none of those languages. And, and those kinds of things were, I was reminded, this is non-trivial. And it's okay that it's non-trivial. It's a good thing to do. And we'll do it one step at a time and keep making progress. Yeah, actually, without, I was not, of course, touching all the language support, but even with English language, there, well, there is obvious challenge because we need to fix documentation and there is a lot of code, which, but you made very important observation in the text of the issue, saying that it is accepted that documentation will be changed first before the code. And I think it was very valuable and it encouraged me to start. And that is such a bold statement, right? Because it's usually the other direction. I'm accustomed to documentation always lags code, always. There's never, you know, I don't remember the last time documentation led code. And so this, that was a great excuse to say, no, in this case, we accept that the documentation may actually be better than the code. It's documented. Stop complaining. Except you have a problem because when there's something on the screen that says master and you're referring to it as controller, that we have stuff because there's stuff on the screens that still says slave and there's past slave. And I agree wholeheartedly, but I've, I came to the, at least the personal resolution that that is not, not nearly as fixable a problem as I would hope because if someone's using an older Jenkins version and looking at current documentation, there's going to be a disconnect anyway. That's true. And so my excuse was, I'm documenting for the future. Now that's, that's, okay, you should, you should, that sounded like marketing or management or both and please don't fault me for either of those. Do you have something where people are told about this terminology change? So they know because they're going to run into old blogs and they're going to run into old developers who still use the old terminology, right? And right, but we've got something up there for them, right? We do. Jonathan, you had a question. Go ahead. In Brazil, you have in the past a bad experience translating official terms. So here we prefer, for example, use the English terms or French, no matter when they come, because when you translate, the things lost the context make no sense. So when, when, in the case we translate, we put the translations, but in front of, we put inside parenthesis, the English term. So all you, you put as a link that point for that explication about the context. So we have a bad academic experience. For example, the author published a English book. So the library just take the English and then convert everything from English to Portuguese. So that's a catastrophe because you can't understand how the author wants to say because that make no sense. So we prefer work in English in that case. That, okay. And that's, I find that fascinating because I think different, different regions or different language, language environments have very different experiences on that because I think the Japanese have biased towards and the French, I think, had the same pattern of translate everything, must always use native word. But you're saying that the Brazilian Portuguese experience has been best to assure that both words are available. So Kubernetes, for instance, when you see their, their documentation translated into Portuguese, they'll use the word controller and then show the Portuguese for. Yeah, we prefer this controller because, for example, in Portuguese controller can means several things. So there is no context. For example, so literary translations from English make no sense to us. So we prefer, for example, use the English term as a new term, not the, the literally translation translated because this I think even the Japanese do some of that they got into it with code because like we didn't rename library functions and stuff. We never localized those. So if you're going to open a file, it's open and print is print f and those notes. So I think so the technical communities very early got used to using the English terms there. So then it extends when you're talking about stuff. I once saw Japanese man pages for Unix and this was eons ago when things were pretty primitive and there was a lot, you know, so there you could just see the character set. There were all sorts of English words on there in the middle of sentences and stuff. I know, for example, just for just a simple, for example, the word nightmare we translate to Portuguese and it's become something near of a horse of the night. So I have no sense read nightmare translated for Portuguese. So we prefer to use nightmare. Yes, I love it. This is a pony, a pony in darkness. That's what nightmare means. When I have a very frightening dream, it's a pony in the darkness. So first of all, Portuguese that that word is a deal, but it's another word. It's different. Okay, that's literal translation is a terrifying thing. That's great. All right. Okay, thank you. Any, any other topics on terminology updates? Well, to your point that in case if we'll be waiting until all code will be updated with new terminology, then probably will forever and will be able to fix documentation probably back century or something like this. Well, I hope it will be sooner, of course, but there is, of course, a valuable point in making these updates and documentation and making this note that you read about, accepted. Excellent, great. Yeah, thank you. And, and there's, there's an enormous amount of work to do there, both on the code and in the documentation. So we should just plan to continue discovering those things and fixing. Excellent. Thank you. So if you can, if you can both join, so Vlad and Jonathan, if you can both join about 15 minutes prior to the start of the webinar on Wednesday, that would be great. It gives us a chance to test that your equipment's working, that we've got all the right controls, etc. Then if you're unavailable to join at that point, and you join just on the hour, we'll still get you in just fine. It's just easier on everybody if you've come a few minutes, arrived a few minutes early. All right, that's all that I had. Anything else? Okay, end of meeting. I'll post the recording in about an hour. Thanks, everybody.