 Live from New York, it's theCUBE. Covering Big Data New York City 2016. Brought to you by headline sponsors, Cisco, IBM, NVIDIA, and our ecosystem sponsors. Now, here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Jeff Frick. Welcome back to New York City everybody. This is theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Wendy Dunlap is here. She's the director of global agency partnerships for the Oracle Marketing Cloud. Wendy, good to see you. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. So, big week here in New York City. We're doing this Big Data stuff. You guys are also here for another event, right? Tell us about that. Yeah, we recently had a media round table with a group of our agency partners and consultancy partners, and invited select media vehicles to really talk about who should be leading the ad tech revolution. Should it be agencies, should it be consultancies? We have partners from Deloitte, Accenture, Merkle, Digitas, as well as Publisys One. So, it was a really lively morning, as you can imagine. No coffee was needed. And, you know, we started off with how do we define ad tech and mar tech? I think that's still a question for a lot of the agencies. And I love one of our Merkle partners gave a really succinct definition of when we think about ad tech, we should think about cookie based advertising, right? It's the stuff that we've been doing for the past 20 years. It's not really attached to an identity, but when we think about mar tech, that's really where we're getting into identity and the fidelity of getting down to that single user ID and being able to market directly to them. So, yeah, it's a really enthralling conversation. Yeah, just the whole segmentation of one is a very different kind of opportunity as well as a challenge that's finally now you can start to do, especially with these things. Yeah, absolutely. And with the right data partner, right? With the right technology partner. And that's really where the Oracle Marketing Cloud comes in. We have been really strategic in acquiring and developing best in class technology around data management, audience management, automation, personalization, CRM, all integrated into a system that enables our customers to really focus less on the technology and more on the innovation and the creativity of marketing. And so that's really where we've distinguished ourselves and my group in particular is working hand-in-hand with ad agencies and figuring out, well, how do we use this technology to bring innovation to our clients? So I gotta ask you, I come back to the round table. So the ad agencies, I'm sure, said we should be leading and the consultants said we should be leading, right? Actually, no. It was really surprising. The consensus in the room was that the lines are blurring between consultancies and agencies. And it's actually becoming a non-issue. It's really not about whether a marketer or a CMO hires a consultancy or an agency or maybe they have both, but it's who's able to drive the best experiences. So that was kind of the theme of the morning and I think that's what we're seeing in our industry, right? What institutions, what companies, what agencies are able to drive that end-to-end consumer experience that's integrated, that's personalized, that's relevant to the consumer and is ultimately driving sales, driving ROI. What's historically been the role of each? Can you just sort of educate us and describe it? Yeah, so historically, agencies have functioned really in the lane of media planning and buying. So they partnered primarily with the CMO, focusing on those marketing plans and specifically, as I said, those media buys, which is probably the largest expenditure in any CMO's budget. Consultancies have always had a wider breadth, right? Where their conversations will go from the CMO to the CFO and sometimes to the CIO. And so they were really focused on business operations and the bottom line of driving sales and driving efficiency that would drive those sales and a greater return on investment. So they weren't really as focused on the media side. Now we're seeing the two groups are really converging. Advertising agencies are becoming much more aggressive in being those business strategists because they know they control so much of the client's budget and consultancies are getting more involved in the operations, the execution of media, such as the model that you'll see at partners like Accenture. Which is sort of building out digital experiences, actually doing media buys, running analytics to see what's working. Exactly, yeah. And so what we're seeing is that agencies have been really playing catch up a little bit in terms of the learning curve in becoming those business partners and making marketers, their clients, comfortable in letting the agency really into their business. And there's a huge advantage for our ad agency partners to do that. But they need training, they need enablement. They need to understand how does the technology enable not just the effectiveness of the media, but the bottom line of the ROI bottom line for a marketer. And where my group at Oracle and the Oracle Marketing Cloud is actively enabling agencies to have those conversations with their clients through the use of our DMP and our other technology platforms. So let's go through kind of an example of how I would engage with the Oracle Marketing Cloud. I'm a marketer and I want a combination of brand amplification and I want leads because I can want to drive ROI. I mean, that's got to be pretty common, right? Yeah, it's actually really common. So a lot of the conversations will start with the clients and then they'll bring in their ad agency partner. There are many instances, however, where the agencies really see a need for a client to be smart and strategic about their technology to really innovate and enhance their marketing so the agency will come to us and they'll say, hey, we have ex-client and we really think that they need to invest in a data management platform. They've got tons, they have a huge CRM database. We'd like to do lookalike targeting and purchase some second party and third party data and really scale this out for them and we think we could be really efficient. And they'll come to us and ask us to be their partners and pitching that clients and selling through our technology solutions. On the other hand, it's sometimes the client and the conversation starts with the client. In that case, my team will engage with the agency, make sure that they're involved in the conversation because it's really essential that the agency POV is heard. I can't say enough, agencies are controlling the largest share of budget at any marketing organization. And so it's so key that their expertise, that their insight is involved in the decision-making process when you're looking at MarTech and AdTech. Often the agencies are the one deploying it, they're the ones that are going to be managing it and they're the single entity that has that end-to-end consumer view. No other organization has that. So what are the data sources and talk more about the data that I'm managing? Where's the data come from? Is it lists that I'm bringing in, a house list? Is it social data? I'm sure it's yes, yes, and yes. Yes, it's all of the above. Yeah, it's all of the above. I mean, first and foremost, clients really need to strategically leverage their CRM database. The customers that they already have, they probably already have a really robust e-marketing program and we have great solutions to automate that as well, but in addition to that, they should be using that to get smarter with their advertising and not just their display advertising, not just their social advertising, but their mobile advertising, their connected device advertising. I mean, one of the advantages of Oracle, one of the advantages is that, not only do we provide the technology platform to manage all those data sources, but we also provide data with our ODC. So we talk about this OMC, ODC, the Oracle Market Cloud, the Oracle Data Cloud One-Two Punch. So we're providing the technology platform and we're sourcing the data, both the client's own first-party data and then other data sources from strategic partners and we're allowing marketers to, enabling marketers to more efficiently than get their word out, not just to their customers, but people who have similar interests and needs as their customers and that enables them to scale their marketing and ultimately drives greater return. So talk more about the role of content, if you would, in terms of what you're seeing with your customers. So they're making an offer somewhere, could be a social offer, could be an email offer, whatever, and they're bringing them to something, typically or often, would be content, right? Yeah, I mean, it's all about personalization, right? Consumers are looking for experiences that are relevant to them. So when we talk about content from a marketing perspective, it's really about sending a message to those consumers that is related to a previous behavior and indicated interest, something that they've searched for before. It could be an upsell for a similar product. So the content really needs to be tailored to the consumer and what they're looking for. And fortunately, they're leaving a lot of cookie trails, a lot of footprints in terms of what that content should be. And so smart marketers need to pick up on that, right? And then develop the content accordingly. In order to do that, you need the right technology. Okay, but somebody still has to develop the content. Is that the agency? Is that the consultancy? Is that the brand? Is it a third party? The content, you know, we're seeing primarily it, you know, it's the ad agencies, you know, who are developing the content. Consultancies are also advising on the content. You know, content is, content development is not, there's no single entity, I think that's in charge of that anymore, right? It's really who's controlling the data who can advise on the message. And it allows creative teams within ad agencies. It allows creative teams within consultancies and within the marketers own organization to be smarter. So I think you're gonna see all three parties coming to the table. And the technology helps me manage that content? Is that a part of it or is that not necessarily the case? The technology helps you to deliver those personalized content experiences so that when you land on a website, you know, it's saying hello, you know, and it maybe it's got, you know, a list of items and products that you've, you know, searched for before. You know, when you go on to social media, there is, you know, a banner. There's an ad that speaks to something that you've searched for previously. When you receive an email, it speaks to an interest that you've indicated that you have. So the messaging is very relevant to where you are at that point in time. It reminds me of a quote we've had on other CUBE shows where, you know, if it's done well, it's magical, right? If it's done poorly, it's creepy. And it's a fine line to make sure you're delivering the right thing to the right person. So it's not creepy, but it's relevant and it's contextual and it is what I want to see right now. And I think that's where the fidelity of the data comes in, right? I mean, at Oracle, we have something called the Oracle Data Graph, which really helps us to get to a true view of the consumer and who they are so that when our clients are using our technology, we can ensure that they're receiving the right message, the right time. And it's not creepy. It's actually relevant, useful, and helpful. And it's one of the many advantages that we bring to the table for marketers, you know, that type of ID fidelity, and not just on your desktop, but on your mobile device and across all of the screens that you're accessing on a daily basis. Oh, I just said the other thing on the content side, which I think is interesting, you look like brands like Red Bull and GoPro, which have taken kind of this, yes, there used to be kind of a lifestyle thing that would be expressed in a magazine ad or a commercial, but now they're doing much broader kind of experiences associated with the brand. I mean, I think nothing better than than when the guy jumped out of the space craft for the world's longest drop. I think it was GoPro and Red Bull on that one to build this sense of community around the content. And oh, by the way, our products are kind of part of this thing too. Yeah, and I think there's a huge opportunity for clients that are really investing in branded experiences and content development to get smarter and how they use data and the technology that's fueling that so that they can reach broader audiences. So they're not just preaching to the choir, but they're also reaching those consumers who are currently not in their database, who currently not Red Bull drinkers, right, but would be interested in the content and could potentially become evangelists as well. So you mentioned cookie crumbs or breadcrumbs. And we always talk about this notion of nonlinear consumption, which is sort of in terms of the way in which consumers find things. But at the same time, you see things like binge watching, which doesn't really get more linear. What are you seeing in terms of just consumption patterns? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, binge watching is still a huge trend. I think earlier this year Netflix experimented with releasing a show, one episode at the time. Consumers hated that, right? It's like, no, I wanna watch it in one weekend. So I think we're seeing that that is still very much a trend. But I think the trend that we're gonna see that's continuing to grow is mobile. Here at Ad Week, there was a great panel discussion with Sheryl Sandberg and some of the Facebook partners and just the stickiness of mobile content and how to be more effective in distributing content through mobile devices. I think consumers more and more are gonna be accessing content through those handheld devices. And that's why it's gonna be essential for marketers to have the right technology to be able to identify what content they're watching on those mobile devices and then market to them accordingly. So as a customer of the Oracle Marketing Cloud, what do I actually buy? I'm buying a subscription to the Marketing Cloud. Is it a annual agreement? You're buying individual solutions. So typically with working with our agency partners, our data management platform, our DNP, is the gateway, if you will, into the Oracle Marketing Cloud because our agency partners are working with their clients and really looking for opportunities to consolidate their data, to segment out their audiences and get smarter at how they market. In addition to that, we have other solutions such as Eloqua, Responses, and Maximizer, all of which are helping to enable the automation and the personalization of marketing. So those subscriptions each help drive that really relevant customer experience that we've been talking about, either through email, through really smart site design or through just really being intelligent about how you're segmenting your audiences. We talked to Eric Reynolds from Clorox at an event earlier or last year, and it was fascinating to me, because you think of CPG as pretty data-driven, smart, using all the tools at their disposal, and even he was like, but this is a complete transformation and a refresh of doing so many things a different way, which was fascinating to me that you think of them as being so data-driven in the first place that there's still this huge gap that they feel they need to get past. It is huge, right? It's a whole new world, and I think a lot of marketers are looking for the right partners to really help them navigate this new connected ecosystem. And I think that's really where the opportunity is, right, for ad agencies and for consultancies to come in and help drive those relationships and educate clients. And my job is to help educate the ad agencies so that they can get smarter at navigating the ecosystem, because it's one, really, it's about starting with the consumer, being consumer first, right? Once you can get that principle down, once you're convinced of that, then it's figuring out how do we do this, right? Where is the consumer, first of all, right? Mapping out that consumer journey, and then finding the right technologies and the data to track that consumer, and then the right technology to deliver the appropriate messages at the right time. And then, right, ultimately, the end piece is the right attribution model. So you understand where your investments are really working and how you can optimize. And the ROI measurement is the same traditional conversion and pipeline? Yeah, you know, it's really disappointing. I still see clients who are really invested in last-click attribution, right? So that's when that last click, the last action the consumer took, gets all the credits, right, for the sale or for the conversion. And that's why you see, you know, search marketing being such a huge investment area, because oftentimes, you know, a consumer will, you know, put in a search term and convert from there. Without any regard for all of the brand and product exposure that happened before that search term was even made, right? And so marketers, that's how it works, right? That's how we all respond to media. That's how we all respond to marketing. But yet marketers, right, are still figuring out how to measure that. Last-click attribution is easy, it's simple, right? When you start talking about multi-click attribution and marketing mix modeling, it gets really, the conversation becomes a lot more nuanced when you're a marketer and you have to explain to your organization how well this $50 million investment did, right? It's easy to say, well, we drove, you know, 50 million clicks and, you know, we drove, you know, 30 million hits to our site. And ultimately that resulted in X amount of sales. That's an easy conversation, it's very linear. The consumer, as we were saying, consumer journey isn't linear and neither should your attribution model. Well, it's true, right? If you see an ad for Nike versus, you know, Acme Shoes, what are you gonna click on first? But that thing that gets you to search for the Google, I mean, that is a terrific insight. Yeah. I mean, smart Google, they're getting the benefit of all that pre-work that leads to the point that I sit down and search for the term Nike. Mopping up all the hard work. Yeah, it's seeing those TV ads, it's seeing, you know, the social media ads, right? It's seeing the billboard when you're driving in, it's opening the magazine, you know, it's seeing a banner, you know, looking on your phone and, you know, seeing an ad in an app. It's all of those exposures, you know, and it could take a few different exposures, frequency I think is still key before that consumer decides, let me figure out what this is. You know, I might want to get this. Right. And so it's important for marketers to understand what's driving the influence so they can distribute their budgets accordingly. Awesome, great topic, we got to go. Thanks very much, Wendy, for coming on. Okay, thank you. All right, keep it right there, we'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from New York City, we'll be right back.