 Welch yn y toffi TV ac yn ddelwedd i chi gynnwch i'n gweithio i'r Rheihol yn y studiad yng nghymru, Everton Academy Manager, ond mae'n ddweud yn cymhwyl o'r academy coge, mae'n cymhwyl o'r tiyl yn y bwysig i'r academy. Rwy'n ddweud y gweithio. Ond yn y cyfrifio, allan am y dyma, rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r ffordd y tro i'r ysgol. Ac yna, nid ddim yn di i chi gyda'n gweld i'r Deyrnas, ac rwyf wedi bod yna, yn ddarparu gallu peth o'r bach arnau ddod, ydy o'r Deyrnas? Mae'n maen nhocach, wrth gyrfa ddechrau i'r Deyrnas, a ddim yn rhaglenol, o ddweudweidio, ac mae'r fan hyn o'r llyffydd am ddweud o'r rhaglenol ddysgu wneud ac mae'r rhaglenol ddweud gennym uneasy ddweud, roedd ddweud ag feedryn yn llwyllfa arall y gŵr. allan Gramor y Llyfrgell, dwi hi'n mynd i fod yn cael ei ffordd, ac rydyn ni'n meddwl i'n ffordd i'r môl. Ond yma, yma yna'n amlwg o'r sgol. Ond, rwy'n meddwl i'n mynd i dda i'n cael ei wneud, ond rwy'n meddwl i'r grannu yma, nid oed yn ôl ymddiadau. Rydyn ni'n edrych yn ystafell yn ymddiadau. Rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r wneud, eu bobl yn edrych yn eu leffwerd. ..yna'r gwreithio gan y ddechrau, y byddwn i'r gwirionedd ac yn ymgyrch yn gweithio. Yn gychwyn, mae gennymio'r ysgrifennu, mae'n gweld yn ei ffordd o'i cyfle busnes. Felly, mae angen i ddim yn ymdweud, fe'n gweld yn cael ei gwerthu... ..yna'r ysgrifennu i'r ffordd i'r unig... ..yna'r ysgrifennu, ymgyrch, ymgyrch... ..yna'r ysgrifennu, mae'n gweithio i'r gweithio... Ac rwy'n meddwl, mae'n gweithio. A phaithau'n gweithio'r chylywb yn ddwylliant ar Eftan. A rwy'n meddwl i'r wyf i chi'n gweld ar gyfer y rai'r gwaith. Rwy'n meddwl i chi'n gweld ar gyfer y gwaith. Rwy'n meddwl i'r gwaith. Ieithio'r gwaith o'r gyngor gyllidol, Ac efallai ond i'w'n rhai cyntaf o'r Belfield. A oeddwn i'n fath o'n ei wneud. A dwi'n ddweud yn ystod o'r Phaidol a'n dweud. O'r talun o'r bobl. A'r ddiweddio cyflogion o'r ddechrau, Mae'n i'n dweud i'r ddweud. Y'r fanci joined in us? I thought oh yeah yeah and he said right make your way next Tuesday night. He said but there's one condition and I went you said you've got to bring out for that team with you. So that's that's how I got it. After I'd finished, I then joined Eftan as a part time coach, which was you know I'm working with elite players for the first time and really interested in kind of what went on. Now unfortunately about the years kind of blending, but Howard, who had come back for the second time, needed to get jobs for players like Mick Lions and Paul Powell. So they took over working with the school boys. So I'm probably one Rwy'n bod chi'n rhaid i'r yw ymdd November 19, byddai am y Cymru a'r ffyrdd o gyfnodau, a'r ymddai'r ymddangos ar y cyfnodau, oherwydd yma. Felly mae'r ysgol yn ymddangos i'r ymddangos i'r ymddangos ei wneud o'r cyffredinol, a fyddai'n ddweud i'r ffyrdd o'r awdurddau. Mae'n ddweud i'r cyffredinol i'r byd ac mae'n ddweud i chi, ac mae'n ddweud i chi i'r ffyrdd o'r cyffredinol i'r byd. a ydych chi'n gweld Caolain. Caolain ddim yn ddweud i'r gaffir o'r ddweud. Fy fyddwch yn ddigonol a fyddai yn y cyfnod mewn gwirionedd. Fy fyddwch yn ysgrifennu o'r prifyddol. Mae'r gwestiynau dim yn ddweud i'r gwwn yn eirloch, mae'r ddweud i'r rhan o'r ladr fel eich llaw yn ddweud. Mae'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r ddweud. Mae'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r ddweud. Mr Kendall, yn y ddwey'r holl, yn gweithio chi. Get in here kid! So, sat down. He said we're losing players, young players, and we're losing them to the other crew. He said we probably need to go back a couple of years and build it up again. Would you be interested in being the development officer? I said, I'd love it, you know. And at that stage, I got a little bit of cocky in the interview. Dwi'n ddweud, a'n gwybod o'r tawd, a dwi ddim yn dweud. Bos! Dwi ddim yn dweud. Felly dy'n gweld y ddweud o ddweud hwnna ddweud? Rwyf i'n ddweud, i'n ddweud o'n gweithio'r tawd. Rwyf i'n ddweud, ond rwyf wedi yn cael ei ddweud. Felly bydd yn ddweud, byddwn i'n ddweud, yn gweithio gydag, dwi'n ddweud, all y gwaith bwysigol. Rwyf i'n ddweud. Mae'r berwick was, that's what it was. So it started the next day. E'n ni wneud fi stuff haf y dod, a dwi'n ni wneud. It was great, it was and he put people in he just had a way, but he knew when. He was serious about something. One of the questions that you get asked is Who is the best manager? He can't really answer, but he gave me my start. Mae'n gwybod i'w gwaith sy'n arddangos i ddim yn yr hyn ar y bydd. Rydw i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'w gwybod. Rydw i'n gwybod i'w gwybod i'w gwybod. I'r ystod o'r mhagau gweld o'r ddim yn i chi i chi'r llun mwy o'r rhum. Rydw i'n gwybod i'r llun, oed yn i chi i chi. Fy gyddiwch, ydych yn ddigon i chi. Rhaid i chi i chi'n gwybod i'r tall. Roeddwch yn defnyddio mae gennym gomod, ac mynedwch, gallu hwn yn deall jusau, i fewn i ddisprifio'r überu. Mae'r mwyaf yma yn ysbwylliant 15 o 16. Rwy'n wedi'n ei wneud, a'n gweithio'r margins, a'i'r gwybod. Roeddwch i fynd ar y rŵn, a hynny wedi'n lle cyflog. Nad oedd yn ei ddweud â'u buff, a fyddwn i'n gwyb? ac yn y ddech chi a'n gilyddwch yn y ddon, a dwi ddod rhagwch gynnwys. Ac rydyn ni'n ddweud y program oedd. Ac rydyn ni'n iawn i'r ystod i'r ddaf i'r hyn. Nid yn gallu yn ddaf i'r ddweud, yna'r ddech chi'n ddod o'r ddod o'r ddod, dwi ddod o'r ddod o'r ddod. Ac as ond o'r ddod o'r ddod o'r ddod, oeddwn ni'n ddod y bydd. Felly, o dros ddod y mblwys o'r codi, Mae'n fan ein hunain rwy'n gwyllt ar rhan o'r peth ar ywm ysglawni. Mae'n gweithio ar gyfer y cyfle a'n gallu'r gwbwysig iawn. Fyllt lef, fe o bwysig iawn. Fy llwyddo i'r gwir, mae'n gallu addos, yn ddiogel. Mae'n gweithio pan ddim o'n gwlad. Efallai, ac yn ddod, o'n ddod. Cymru. Fyllt, mae'n gweithio. Efallai, ma'n gweithio. Mae'n amlwg, sy'n dda, yn ddiogel ac ar y rhain i'n gwneud gweithio, boards'nelf, i wneud i chi ddim yn ei dda, bwaen nhw. Nawr a'w tîr! Yn ni allwch chi eisiau i'w ydy'r cyfliadau ei ddwy gwyllwch, yna y ddechrau i ddechrau, eich gofyn nhw gan Rydymes, ac mae'r rachlief yw'r cyfrifiad. Yn cyflei maen nhw'n bwystu'r dda, sy'n gofyn nhw'n bwysu, Ac byddwn i ati, Llyfrgell-Yddon i'r lleffydd a yna dim gyffredinol waith yn ymgyrch. Felly yn y 90s, ac ond yn ydyddai'n gallu ond y byddai – ond 170 ar y rôl. Dyma sydd y cwrs-rôl yn ddeallol. Dwi yw ond teimlo pan'r 20s! Dwi di ddalil yn ddigon. Ond mae'n gweld eich bwysig hynny. Mae'n nhw'n g shows mwy ffan i chi. Mae hwn yn golygu. Nid ychydigawd 18 o gyd yn cyfweld y cwrs. Wrth gweithio. Felly byddai'n cyfweld. But when you go inn there, what... So you get your feet under a table and... What did you do to go about it, like what was it like? What did you find when you went in there because obviously it was all new your sailing? What do you want me to do with your development so what did you set out to do it that time... To try and make it different? That's a great question because... When I look back... from 1990 to say 1993 to 1994, Mae'r pethau yn ddweud yn y rhaid i'r region yn y ffordd. Mae'n ddweud i'n ddweud i'n ddweud i'r rhaid i'r newid o'r ffordd. Felly nid oedd yn gweithio. Mae'n ddweud i'n ddweud i'r newid. Mae'r ffordd wedi bod yn ddweud i'r ffordd. Ond eich ddweud i'n ddweud i'r newid. Mae'n ddweud i'n ddweud i'r program a'r proces. Felly, mae'n ddweud i'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r blaenau Lleon Osmann o 13, 14, i'r boen. Mae'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd. Ond y gallwn i'n ddweud i'n ddweud i'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd. Dyna'r unid oeddiol'r afael y grif. Stefnod o'r problemau oherwydd yn ffrindio Lleon Osmann, dyna dwi'r ffordd o'r cysylltu handiol a dim oedd o'r cychwyn i'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r gael. Mae'r gael i'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r holl i'n lleiol. Dwi'n gog ddwy i ddweud i'r ffordd o'r ffordd. Felly enthe i'r bobl ym ysgrifennol i'r 11 oeddi'r ffordd. maen nhw'n ddwy'r ddysgu'r ddysgu mor allus, felly mae'n 18 ac mae'n ddweud. Felly mae'n ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu. Dwi'n wnaeth, ac rwyf yn ddiddor i'n ddysgu'r llyfr, a chydigodd ar gyfer Hywyd yn rhan i gyflwyniad, Jimmie Gabriel, Mike Walker, Joe Royal, Dave Watson, Hywyd yn ddysgu'r ddysgu, ac yn rhan i'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r 19th pa Walters Smith. Rydyn ni'n gweld i'r cyfle i'r gael. Mae'r cyfle i fynd fod yn fawr i'r cyflwyntau. Mae'r cyflwyntau yn gallu sydd gafodd i'r cyflwyntau sydd wedi'i gweithio'r cyflwyntau. Mae'n cyflwyntau i'r cyflwyntau, ac'n adnodd i'r cyflwyntau. identified with it along any program, and access to the players so they improving the coaches pathway of y ll period. Access needed. They looked at the Dutch system and the Czech system where it brings through players in through all the time and they start at like eight, nine years of age. In the early years you had an associate school boy form, a pink and a blue form and then So, y gallwn i'r ffawr, y pwysig o'r blaid, ac mae'r fawr yna, ac mae'n holl yn ei wneud o'r fawr. Ond ar y llwydd yn fawr, mae'r teimlo i neud yma yng nghael. Ond yn rhan o'r ffordd, mae'n rhan o'r newid ymlaen. Mae'n rhan o'r fawr, mae'n rhan o'r fawr. Y centre o'r ecadymian? Ym 50, mae'r cyffer o'r mawr. Mae'r lle yn y bleidau. Mae'r lle yn ddefnyddio. Mae sy'n ddefnyddio. Dwy'n ddechrau fel hyn. Mae'n ddefnyddio'n tydd. Mae'r contractau wedi'u lle yn y bwylltu a'r llyfr gei. Dwy'n ddefnyddio'r directaeth, Keith Timlin. Ondwn cyfw乎 y gallwn i'r lle.spe stori, iweud, I'm just about getting throught at the players, and so on, and the manager's going and he's bringing his own coaches in, which is up to him. It's not working. We need an autonomous unit that can prosper if you like it, and if it's not good you throw the lot of us out, but give me three years to do it, and he said, ok. Byddai'n gwybod yn meddwl, a'i ddim yn meddwl, a'i ddim yn meddwl i'r ddoe'r ardal. Dwi'n meddwl i'n meddwl. Ond oedd gennym eu cynnig. Ac rwy'n meddwl i'n meddwl. Rwy'n meddwl. Mi'n meddwl, rwy'n meddwl Colyn Arffy o'r ydych chi'n gweithio'r ydych chi. Felly, y gweithio'r ydych chi, rhwng o'u arfer. A'r ydych chi'n meddwl i'r ydych chi'n meddwl i'r ydych chi'n meddwl, ychydig yw yng Nghaerdydd a'r effeithu yng Nghymru. Mae yna hynny'n gweithio ar y cyfan. Ychydig yw'n gyflwyno. Mae'n meddwl i'ch gael y ffordd. Mae'n meddwl i'ch gael y ffordd. Mae'n meddwl i'ch gael y ffordd, ac mae'r ffordd yn gwneudau i'ch gael y ffordd mewn ffordd yn gweithio. Mae wedi bod yn gwneud. Felly mae'r mhwyl i'r ymddangos gyda 1997-98. Mae'r ddaf yn lle, mae'r ddim yn fwy o'r gwaith a'u gweld i'w gofyn i gyd- mae'n gwybod i'r byw, mae'n gynyddiadd, oherwydd mae'n gyd- a'r fan hyn yn pethau, mae'n ganddo'i wneud i gyd- mae'n olygu i wneud i gyd- i wneud i gyd- ond mae'n gwybod i'r gweithio, ac mae'n gwybod i ddefnyddio, mae'n gwybod i'r gweithio, Dylai ni'n golygu beth. Carl Regan, Adam Eaton. Adam Farley played in the, well made it, come on in for the first team at Derby County in a live game, so he played in the first team. Richard Dunn, you know all about. Mick O'Brien was the captain, he played for Trogheed in the after-event. David Poppleton, Leon Osman, needs no introduction. Phil Jevons, he played 9 or 10 times for the first team. Jamie Milligan, left footer, nice football, I think he played for Blackpool, played a lot of games for Blackpool Jamie. Danny Kadamati, played in our first team, Tony Abbott, played in our first team, Frani Jeffers, first team, Wayne McDermott and Michael Ball, who got in the first team but was part of that, so that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight of that squad played for Evan in the first team. If you take out Farley, because it was a fleeting one, and maybe Diavo, because he played, I think he played 9 or 10, everybody else played a good amount of games for Evans in the first team, he got money for Richard Dunn, money for Michael Ball. So that's from a squad perspective, you've more than, in that respect you've more than did, because to bring that many through. If Paul Tate now or Everton at 21s, at 8 or 9 or at 21s, you play in Everton's first team, I think we'll all be dancing, we don't see that, so when you, you might be a little bit more kind of humble about it, but that is very impressive, by any stretch that is impressive numbers for a team at one that you could go. Yeah, but, and again, I don't want to sound conceited, Colin and I never saw it like that, we saw it as part of what your job was, and it's interesting now as the games globalised and the expansion in just about everything, including the long term development programmes from 9 through to the first team, they've all changed and become unbelievable, but I go to some clubs now and I walk round and I'm not quite sure what their aim was. We set out and our aim was to develop a minimum of one player a season to play in the first team. Right, so after a period of three or four, you've got four and some might drop off at the end, and that was plastered all over what we did, and I don't see that, I don't see that, and rightly or wrongly I don't know whether it should be that or what, but that's what we saw and going back to Howard what he said to me the first time, he said just bring me the best kids. And so once we did our bit in identifying and recruiting, Colin and his men did the best, and it was interesting, you know I said earlier on about a groundswell of young players not coming to Evan, even though they were Evertonians, that group changed it, and the player that changed it was Michael Ball, he was at Liverpool till he was 14, and I spoke to his mum and dad and I said we've got this, we're off and running, he said we're in. Richard Dunn turned down going to Arsenal and Not Forrest to come to us, got another one. Gavin McCann, a lot of players, who actually, does this go out in Manchester? It goes out all over the world. He actually signed for Manchester United, yeah Manchester United fan from Kirkham near Preston, but loved Evan, loved his time because he used to come and you know, and I could take all that, and I got a phone call from his dad, we were on a bus going to Sheffield United to play in a youth game. Phone goes in, it was dad and he said Ray I've got some news, he said I'll give, I won't tell you came round to the house but you can work it out, signed for Manchester United, so I said oh gosh, well I hope he said, but I don't know what to do with these pink and blue forms. The old pink and blue forms. And I won't finish it, but I'm sure I feel better. I can't play forever so I'll leave it at that, I'll leave it at that. He was a good player, I mean he was definitely one. I remember at the time thinking he deserved a chance to rush and he didn't get it and he went on and was very good. He played for England a couple of times. And you were like them when we played Rangers in 97, it was a testimonial game. I think we played them at pre-season, we beat them 3-3 with Goddus and Burriwen and Dunlar dropped right in front of the Rangers fans and young kids smashed them in their fans. It's trying to get on the pitch and he just jogged away and he'll do for me. You've got the ball to do that in front of them and he was a lovely football and again, frustrating because he could have played for everything quite easily because he did well everywhere else he went in. He was the first player that Howard and I went to speak to the parents. Really? Yeah and to see Howard in operation. Anyway, so it's interesting and all the players that you mentioned there, there's a number of them now are still in the game. As coaches, as physios, Carl Haworth who was that age group. So the hope that I would give young players and I think one of your questions later on is about how you handle parents and one of the most difficult things that I had was I made or I broke dreams. And in the cold light today, I look back and I think, could I have done it any better? Well, the answer is yes. But when players, when I first started, when they were being released, there was a kind of, by the time the late 90s came in, when the players were released from the club with their parents, their immediate reaction was thanks and that's how we changed the culture of it. Yeah, they were sorry we were going but they had the most fantastic time they could have had and we found other clubs for them. See, I got nothing from Everton when I left Everton. No aftercare. I've said this loads of times because I've had friends who've got their lads of being released and it's still not good enough. Some of the aftercare is still not good enough. I'm sure we made a release from Manchester United recently. Nothing, nothing really. Not what you'd expect. OK. Everton, it was just like, no sorry, a shake of your hand and off you go, you know. And if you then turned that from when you walked out. It's difficult. It's the best conversation in the world. People say it must be terrible but you learn to manage it and the interesting thing for me was one of the clubs not far away from us used to send letters. I'm sorry. Anyway, a parent came to see me once and she said, you know, my sons were leaving the district but you know if you've got anything to say. She said, well, sorry, I said no, no, it was wishing well. You know if you don't mind me saying something to you. It was great. She said, why do you have the boys in with you when you're releasing them? And I said, I never thought of it. Why? She said, it's really difficult for the parents. If you sit with a boy and you say, look, I'm terribly sorry, he's not got over the line. And he's there and he starts to cry. Only 15, 16, everybody kicks off. So what we did is we used to invite the family to come in. We would say, you know, we'll make a decision making. We would prefer your son not to be with you unless you particularly want him. So what we did was that the parents had come in and I'd say, well, look, unfortunately your boy's not got over the line, but we've got another club for him. Do you want to tell him or do you want me to tell him? And in 15 years, Barry, only one parent said no, you tell him. They all took it upon themselves to tell him, which was a more sympathetic way of doing it, wasn't it? No, that's fair comments. So from that, I mean, what was that like winning the youth cup? Because that must be the culmination of winning. That must be tremendous. Obviously, it's five, three on aggregate. We knew we had a good team. But when you looked at that side, did you think, you can play in our first team? Or wasn't it quite not like that at that stage, where you're not wanting to get too far? I know Michael Ball was in and around it already, hadn't he? So he's with him. He's in there, but people like Richard Dunn. I mean, Dunn, he was massive wasn't he, but Richard Dunn. Even though he was really talented, so many other people like that. We knew we had something different, but I think from my side and from Colin's side, we kept their feet off the ground, you know, when no one got ahead of themselves. And again, we expected them to play in the first team. That's what they came to the club to do. But I remember, because I took the team up to about 15, 16, and you'd go in a dressing room and you'd look round and you think, Jeffers, Ozzy, Ibo, and you're going round and you're thinking, you need to play against that. I'd hate to play against that. And they were all mates as well. It was good. So that kind of, I don't know, bonding and, you know, the socialising. It was great. And when we won it, I think the game that changed it was Watford. We beat Watford 3-2 and it was like the Arctic. We thought the game was going to be called off. Nice, yeah. And their fellas now and all, you know, they must have been like, they fancy there. Anyway, and we were 2-0 down after 15 minutes or something like that. And Kadamarty put on, whether he's a good ice skater, he's never ever told me, but he was sensational. I don't think he scored. Yeah, but he's powerful. And when they got through there, they got in the dressing room and he thought, this is it. Fancy. And we, in the semi-final, we played Leeds home in a way they'd won it the year before. And we were all saying he had a better team. That, yeah. Yeah. And we made it. Yeah. And that's, yeah. So you can tell then, can you, that you've something's building, obviously, three-one away when they're able to park in there. I think two-two with Goddus and Mosnick, but the make-up being done, hadn't it? Could you imagine, as well, Archie Knox and Walter Smith came in to be greeted by that team who just did something? Yeah, yeah. So I got off to a good start. That's not a bad start, yeah. Just there we are, I think. Well, I mean, obviously, like you were just saying, I mean, you went in the processes. What is the process for spotting up? Archie, you're talking about Harvard, saying to you, just get me the best players. Like, how does that work? Cos I imagine it's, like in my day, it was... Sid, was it Sid? Sid Benson. Sid was around, I was playing for Wigan. Sid, come down to you and stuff. It was just one fella to look after a bit. You see it grow over the years. Now you see, you know, damn, with me lad. There's like, there's all the scouts everywhere. There's Liverpool everywhere and they're everywhere. Was it a case of building that network up? Was it someone saying, Ray, we've got this kid here who looks like he's a bit of a player? Was he invited to Belfield or did you send someone else out to look at him? How did the process work? With the change into academies, you were allowed to recruit within an hour's travelling distance. Okay, so immediately that moved the boundary cos it was either Liverpool or Kirby and you'd have somebody up in Newcastle doing a bit of somebody. But they were mates and so they became a structure of what happened. And it's interesting, Barry, that what I do now, I do a lot of work on talent identification, all right, which is what you're asking, what you look for. And in the process of identifying, recruiting, developing, and then the opportunity of playing in the first team, we've got three of them boxed off in terms of knowledge and personnel. So you take when I started, I was the coach, I was the psychologist, and I had one youth coach, a part-time secretary. There's like five of us and now there's 20 or so in each department. And of all the processes, I think it's talent ID, and especially with the younger players that we haven't got right. And we're making decisions, and I'm sorry if this sounds a little bit heavy now, but we're making decisions on young players who are 8, 9, 10 and 11 and 12. And I did, and in hindsight, a grimace because I can just imagine those families of having a 12-year-old boy who's been told he hasn't got over the line. And I've got a grandson who's going through that process now. And we need to get better at identifying the right qualities because that makes it the heartbreak going on to it rather than saying, well, you know, he looks a terrific player and he's taken him from all over the place. And it becomes like the last man standing kind of thing. Whereas if we started off with a 9 or 10-year-old having a 70% chance of still being there when he's 16 or 18, that's real progress. I don't think, and there will be people out there saying, oh, you know, you're talking, but I say it. And I'll give you an example. I sometimes do presentations and I do, if you had, I don't know, 50, 100 people in a room and you ask them all what quality that they need to possess to be an elite player, talking about, you know, Evans Academy. 70% of them would give you a mental or mindset quality. They would say attitude, desire, will to win, you know, motivation. And then you get some would say, good technique, you get some would say, you know, quick, he's fine. So, and the FAE is like a box of development. So they'll have technical and tactical, they'll have physical, they'll have social leader and communication skills, is he? And the final one is mindset or mental. And nearly three quarters of any group, football group would choose that one. Why don't coaches coach it then? So in motivation is high on your list. How do you coach that? I don't know, but I'll find people who could do it. I once bumped into a scout of a club owner to talk about. And he said, my grandson was playing and he said, he said, what you doing here? I said, my grandson's playing over there. He said, oh yeah, he said, he looks a good athlete. I thought, what's that mean? And then I said, yeah, yeah, I suppose he's a good, and then he said, good attitude on him as well. And I said, what's that mean? How does it show itself? And that's the area that I've kind of, because I can't run anymore. I've got authority, I play too much golf, and I love to get involved in that kind of, because we owe it to the families to make the decisions more objective rather than subjective. So it used to be, said Benson's got a good eye for them. It's gone beyond that, because the age group has changed. I'm sorry, I've got a bit carried on. No, no, it's dead interesting, because obviously, I mean, I've got a 12-year-old, so actually, different attributes of different kids and seniors and whatever, but it's dead interesting anyway, as in Evertonian, because obviously you're always looking at what's this kid got, what's this kid got. And I watch, you know, without being disrespectful to the under-21s, I'm 50, I still think I can play in that league, because it's just sterile football to me. It loads a technique, but there's a, I don't know, there seems to be just a, we have good players, and in between, this wasn't one of your questions, but I'm going to ask you that anyway. Between kind of like 18 and 21, they just seem to fall by the wayside. Now, I look at it and think, is it, when you started, it was still a reserved team, it was still there, weren't they? So the kids were playing a reserved team, as well as you're playing with pros, and you're getting whacked, A team would be in the blank as you're like, you're playing Marine, and they're getting kicked all over the place at Marine, and you missed the Manchester there, allowed to beat you everywhere. And it readied you for men's football, whereas I look now and I still think, when I see, I watch the event and I play Leicester, and it's like, where's the tackle and gone? Where's the, where's the intensity? Lovely technique, pull a ball down, pick a pass. Where's the, so that when they do step into a fair team scenario, all of a sudden you get nothing as you know, you get nothing at Premier League, you get nothing at league level of it, and I remember Leon Osmond saying it was, he went to Carl Isle, and he was like, this was, you know, I'm at everything, this will be easy, and a couple of the Carl Isle centrebacks grab the old one, went, this is our life mate, this is our life, you can't come here and walk around. And he said it was the best thing that ever happened, cos he rolled his sleeves up and got in, and as he became, obviously played hundreds of games for every football cup because of that, and I just wonder if between 18 and 21, what do you think we could be doing to kind of prepare them a little bit better? When the academies came out, if you imagine the pyramid starting at the bottom, going in chunks of 9 to 12, 12 to 16, 16 to 18, 18 to 20 and so on, it was that block at the top, that it was more first team, and so academies gradually took over the role of taking over that 21, so there'd be no bulges in it, so it'd be a perfect pyramid going up, and I think that's the right way of doing it. The problem arose whereby in my time, but it doesn't happen so much now, all the best players didn't play in the 21s, they went straight from 18 to the first team, in Wayne's case 16. And they wanted them at 15. So it kind of is a problem that maybe people didn't foresee. The programme now, I think, is as good as it gets, but at 18, 21 the pathway must be loans, must be going out to other, and so that's taken the place of the reserve football. David Moyes, to be fair, and I couldn't give him an answer, he always wanted to take over Southport. As an evident B team almost. I don't know what answer it gave him because it made so many mistakes. No, but it does, doesn't it, because obviously some clubs acquire other clubs, don't they? They are under 21s, you're a midfield player, but this isn't testing yet. You're playing a bit better than some of these. You said it before, I'm glad you said it, because I've read in Germany the way they do, it's one for the first team, one to sell, that's the new thing that they bring through. So when you said one, we get one in the first team of development, and I'd seen a German coach a few years ago saying, so you're playing in that team, and I'm an evident, I play for evident, but the reality is that the other lad who's got a chance, you're decent footballer, might get a career out of it, but all eyes are on this fella because we think he can get there. Them good players then go and play in other clubs, league football, can they sink or swim? Some of the ones you mightn't think make it actually shine and can come through. I think with the way Moyes wanted, I don't say that a few times, it's to have one of those clubs, and to almost go, if you've got three there, you might be able to get them in here and see whether they can play in league football, but Chelsea did it, it's a totally different way, do the back door with Feetish Arnham in Holland in there, but we've seen a team like Leicester, we've got a team in Belgium, and a few other Brentford, they've had a few Midlands in Denmark, so clubs are kind of doing it. A lot of it's done commercially, but we've led for the team. Interesting, when David first came, the best, or the closest to winning it, well we got to the semi-final after winning it, and Joe Cole and his, they kind of knocked us out, and the semi-final was us from West Ham and Coventry and somebody else, and Coventry beat the other team, it was like six, seven over two, and West Ham beat Coventry, 13 something, over two legs, so yeah, and a couple of the lads couldn't play because they were in the first team, but when David came, my first meeting with him was at Aston Villa, when we played in the youth club, and he said to me, David, the lad Rooney, he said, how good is he? I said, he's the best player in the club's boss, well I can't tell you what he said to me, he said only 15, anyway after the finish he came over to me, and he said, you might be right. I mean, obviously we can't ignore Wayne, because obviously he's one of the best footballers England's ever produced, let alone Everton, at this England goal record sighting not so long ago by Harry Kane who's another story, but I mean, what was that like? So you tell a story that he played it, Manchester United scored an overhead kick, and everyone just kind of looked as if to go on on here, but was he, when he come in were you like, oh he's special, this kid looks like a good little player, was it easy to spot? Yeah, and it was difficult because none of us had worked with anything like it, and even Colin, and so Colin kind of never, you know, never went overboard about anything, and I remember saying to him, what about Rooney, he went, got a bit of something, that was a good confidence. But when he actually came to us, he was just different in everything, he asked me a question, I'll come back to it, on what you look for, and there's a number of things, but if one of them makes a difference in a team, he did at every level, he went to, and it didn't, you seldom saw a saying, have a bad game, you know what I mean, he was always, if somebody else had a great game, he was always like not far off it, and so on, that went all the way through, and for me, I used to speak to people about it, and a lot of people in the game said he's the best ever, I actually got asked a question the other night, and somebody said, would you do anything differently, if you want, you know, if you could? If you could, yeah. And in a funny kind of way, it would be manage the player that way in Rooney is better, not him, but his legacy, because almost the elephant in the room, we should have said that's our model, that's what we should aim for all the time. Problem is, there's not many of them. Well, there aren't, but if you aim that high, who knows, because some of these clubs are still turning them out, and in a funny kind of way, Ray Minsell said to me, I followed into the job, he said, you've had it now, Ray. Well, he said to Boyd Rooney, he'll expect one every year. I mean, it was such a buzz about him. As a young kid, I remember the goal of Tottenham, in fact, he's got the free kick at Tottenham, he comes back and hits it with his other foot in the top corner, but the second goal in that, that never gets spoken about, it's such unbelievable. Swivels. It's in and obviously the final against Filler, and it's the ones who blew up Frani and all that, they just seen him, and I've told the story before, I was working there at the time, the ticker office, the day before he made his debut against Spears, he came down with his mate, he's got no top on, told him this, he was laughing, no top on, tucked in his shirt, he's keeping the ball up at the window, I'm giving his mate a ticker like a ticker, and he's keeping the ball up. And I'm thinking, oh my hopes are going to be on you tomorrow against Spears and you're here. No shit on the day before walking around the streets with a ball, but he was obviously the best, players like Ross Barclay, his dad there as well, and Ross physically was always a big hit anyway, because he bought the ability, and he's a frustrating one for me, because I think he should have done more in the game, and he should have really done more with Evan, for the attributes he had. Was he another one that you could tell? I think it got to the stage where you'd say, yeah, he's been a player in our first team, and there was a few we had, Wayne, obviously, Ross, Jack Rodwell. Not disappointing, I think we could have, come back to this mental side of the game as well, but technically one of the best I worked with was Lea, was Keenan Dowell. Dowell left foot. But at some stage it's the ones who want it more than they've come through, don't they? When you look at Tony Hibbert, how many games? Two hundred and something games for the first team. And wasn't it regular in the youth side? No. Without being disrespectful to Tony Hibbert, because he was great for Evan, but there's better footballers than Tony Hibbert, don't play me leave football. I sometimes get asked, you know, I think there's a couple of ways of getting to where you want to be, and you can make yourself a player. Tony did. And what is that then? It's the mental thing. You know, whatever it is, if somebody could bottle it, and throw it out there and say, look, get a swig of that, you'd do it. And that's my interest now is exactly what do you look for, what can you look for, what do you have to take into consideration with young players? And it's exciting because it's like the next bit of my journey. Yeah, yeah, because you've been in it, the cold face, haven't you? Obviously doing that for so long. Did you see a change in the culture from players over the years? So because I think we've seen it, we've seen it with Premier League footballers, it has changed, the money changes everything else, but did you see it on a younger level? Cos we've often talked about it, like the Instagram players, you see like some, you don't need to name names, but we see like some lads in the past that have been players who've never played in the first team, and never will play in the first team, they're driving four by fours and everything you're thinking. Where do you go from here then? Because you've got all the trappings, that looks tremendous. But you're never going to be a Premier League footballer. But it looks like you are. Do you get stuff a bit too soon? I mean, don't need to name people, but in your experience, cos you've been in that position, you've been in that job, you've been in that football club, and it'll be like this a lot of other football clubs as well. Do you get too much too soon? Is there a better way? Cos obviously you've got to reward players, and if you've got where in an area where you've got Liverpool and you've got Manchester United and Manchester City, and if they want to take a little bit of a step, there's Blackburn Rovers, so there's clubs you're willing to go, right? I'll come here and give you 10 grand a week, cos you look like you might make it. Is there a better way we could manage them, or do we just have to accept it? It's that mental side of... I don't think you have to accept it. You have to be very brave. I mean, the biggest... you know, if a club not far away from you is offering an eight-year-old boy his parents to pay off the mortgage, what would you do about it? And so it's become... One of the reasons I decided to leave, and I'm probably going to upset enough a lot of people listening to this, was the role that agents had in it. Now, when I was coming to the end of my tenure, you couldn't be with an agent until you were 18. And then I think it's dropped to 16. That's 16, I've got them definitely. OK, well, that might be officially or unofficially. There's young players in my grandson's team. I've got an agent, and he's 10. So, you know, you have all that, and there's probably a different way of doing it, but you just, you know, it's like everybody's trying to get up the ladder, and if you stop there, you just fall off it. There is a difficult thing, because obviously it is. Everyone's scrambling for the same thing. And if it's a winery, that only comes around once in a while, or a Steven's yet, maybe from the other side. And you pick those up. You've got other people who come through. Do you believe in nature or nature, in terms of development? Or is it a bit of both? That's the easy answer, a bit of both. I think that you can have advantages in your bringing up. So, again, you look at a model of, you know, players coming through, they tend to have elder siblings, because they've always got somebody to practice with. I'm a twin. So, we always, we're playing football together. You know, there are areas which, so you've got all kinds of things, and so it's all of those in a mix. Hot spots, I'm really interested in that. So, what we did when we got involved, we picked out all the best primary schools. Nice, yeah. So, there's a school in West Derby, that Wayne went to primary school. Wayne went to, Frannie Jeffers went to, Mick Lyons, Paul Jewel. Well, you make sure that you go and look at them. So, whatever that is, that nature and nature, it's not only just lucky doing that. And I was looking at them, right off the subject, I was looking at the start of the London marathon. And in the women's event, there were all the best runners, like 20 of them, but there was a row of 10 at the front, and eight of them were from, who was it, Kenya. Now, I thought, well, why are they all front? And the answer's dead easy, because they're running 15 miles a day to get to school and back. So, they start that at four, you know? So, there's a bit, I think, in the, yeah. And I'm like, with my grandson now, if he wants to go and practice, I'll practice with him. So, he's got some of it. And that's what'll happen. It helps you. I haven't really answered your question. Because I guess you're just asking just out of interest. In your genes, maybe. But you can promote it. And there's plenty of examples where players, Tony Aberbyn, Monty Amy Vardy, I guess is another one. He's not the most skillful footballer, but he's direct, he's quick, he's worked hard. He's non-league, Roots as well, of course, and has had an unbelievable career to play for England, considering he's a non-league to what he's achieved, and it's been a big goal for Evan this week, obviously, going against Leeds. So, he's one who's coming the other way. But I'm the same, I get home from work, and it's actually like, I'm going to the garden, and I'm like, come on and make it, I'll come out with him all the way, just to try and help him, to get you touched better, get you switcher, get you shoot. But the beauty barrier of that is not only your involvement, but the fact that he's asking you to do it. Because one of the keys to any mental attitude is motivation. And if you love what you're doing, and I sometimes look at some coaching that I see, and you tell the kids aren't loving it, they just want to play. I don't mean that they'd be a lazy coach, but it's the kids' game. It is difficult, isn't it, with that, because you get caught with trying to develop or just let the kids enjoy. You've got to try, I think, a bit of both, to do this because we want to improve you there, but also you can go and have a kick an arm and do what you want. Are you happy with the way that you've developed, and this is again, this is another tough one, for are you happy if the way the development system is now, or would you make what you see? Because I've watched, I don't know whether you've watched it anyway, but I've watched things like the documentary on Crystal Palace's Academy, which was out not long ago, and I've watched one on Leeds, and the Palace won't stop with me because the kids are in training every day, and some of them are only like 9 and 10, and they're renewing your contract for another season, and it seems like they're putting, and I know it might just be the way it works, but it just seems like loads of pressure's on them immediately to be, I've got it in this next contract, and is there a better way to do it, or is that just the way it is, and how's that the demands of the football club, is there no other option there? I don't want to take away the word contract because it's a registration form, and I've listened to parents, and they say, he's getting a new contract, he's not getting a contract at all, there's nothing binding about it. It's a registration form that gives them access to playing for the year, or two years, or whatever it is. In terms of, I think the genie's out the pot, and you can't put it back now, unless you change it. I think what we've got to try and do is to form our own identity. You know, in the FA, in your time, when the FA came out and looked at centres of excellence, then looked at it, it's maybe gone too far in terms of having too much responsibility for the game, the game, you know. I know a lot of professionals that played at that time would say they would only start the academy system at 12, which seems more reasonable. That's what I believe, but the coaches and the scouts, maybe, would tell you, well, if you haven't got them before 12, somebody else has got them, you've had it now. So you're fighting again, aren't you? I'm just thinking the same, that action will develop, you might be totally wrong on it, but obviously you're not only sire, as you say, can't you? I like to say loads of the academies and stuff like that. We've really produced that many better footballers than what we've always produced. What I find really interesting is certainly the South London thing now with the cage football and the kids who are developing there. There's a couple of those programmes that people can watch as well. The kids aren't necessarily football clubs or have been released, and when I left, it was like the end of the world, but it isn't. I've not had my time over again, because I go, right, this is what I do, that you did try to give me the half cocktails, a bit of coaching in the time when we were together, that stood me in good stead of Bernie, that one receiving, but there's so many different options with the idea to try and get them back into football and they had them all the luck when I was one playing, played against Charlton, done really well, they took them. Seeing that kind of development of players, and I just wonder, because when I interviewed Wayne Ernie, and he was just like, I was playing on the streets with me, and I would have never, never probably be going mad, but I'd go on and play with me mate. He said after the space, he made his David Tottenham, he said I was playing in the road with the Lads for two, and she fell fold into another one out in the street to Manchester getting booted everywhere, and he teaches you how to take the ball, protect the ball, and I just wonder if Academy too early removes that side from them, and might be talking other nonsense, it's only how I've seen it. You're better qualified, it's just why I'm asking it. Well, I mean, I'm out of that scene for like ten years or so, but what has never changed is the mentality of the players that are successful. You don't play in the Premier League unless, I mean, some of our supporters might argue with it, but unless you've put a hell of an amount of work into it, you know, they haven't just rocked up and you're there and somebody you're playing here, so you've been through a whole load of challenges to actually get there, and I think when you get to somebody like Wayne he saw that as the start, not the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But do you think some share is the end? Yes, that's a better question. I play a little bit of tennis and I don't know, Ivan Lendl said one of the worst things that happened to him was become number one, because he had to work hard and he'd ever worked. Well, you mentioned before about street football I think there are a lot of apologists out there that find problems, but they'll say, well the kids can't play in the streets anymore there are no streets, there's buses and trucks and all around the city. Well find a wall somewhere and play against the wall. When I take a coaching session now that's the one thing because that's what makes the player. I form my grandson up every day I let him off on Sunday and I said, have you done your ten minutes? Yes, Grandie, I have. And I know when he's telling the truth and when he isn't. So what is it, what's the ten minutes? The ten minutes is ball against the wall. Throw it again, catch it. I went into Everton a few years ago with Franny and we were talking about the old days and he said he said the kids don't play Kirby any more. I never I'm from Everton I never heard of it and I said what's that he said you just get the ball and you just play it against the edge of the curve and it comes back to you and I said wow, I wish I had known that and I've got me he's got on doing it Kirby and you know if you can control the ball and play it at that kind of level a little story about Wayne one night and he must have been 12, 13 and we were in the big gym at Bellefield and it was Tuesday night whatever all the kids have gone home and I'm just finishing off doing a bit of paperwork the phone goes and it was Jeanette Wayne's mum and she said where's Wayne right and I said what do you mean there's not home we finished half an hour ago so she said no he's not back anyway I said hang on I said I'll walk around and he had thought he'd gone with everybody anyway I come out of my room and I come to hear this banging against the wall and anyway I went to him like the big sport home there's a little light at the top end and Wayne's banging the ball against it and you know when you talk about qualities and all the rest of it but he worked out other than anybody else and had the talent as well that's unstoppable in it if you've got that desire you remember Alex Fakes and some of Cantona he asked them what was the biggest thing that he brought to United the goals were great the biggest thing he brought after the first couple of training sessions he'd asked me could he stay out and be finishing but he wanted to keep a couple of the goalies out so he said he'd done an hour and a half to laugh at footballers and he's there having shots he said a couple of the players were watching so someone's crossing a volley in it done about 20 minutes, 25 minutes he said in the next couple of days all of a sudden Beckham was out there and someone else was out there and after about two weeks there was about 10 of them staying that was what he did right foot, left foot heading and the other players were like drop of culture or desire or attitude whatever that is I need to do that to get better and also the knowledge that if you don't do it somebody's going to take your place which that competition is as important as anything and I don't think everyone has it I don't think I quite had it it's that thing isn't it you realise you're almost too late don't you some lads you're saying about Wayne I'm sure there's loads and we'll have it after that because I was fusion Steven Gerrard but Steven Gerrard talked and he was like every time I went to Liverpool I think he was nine, whatever, ten my dad was saying make sure you're the best player so I went training I'm going to be the best player every nine, ten, eleven that desire to be the very best and kids after after that because you're right as how many I can sit here on it I hope I'm not sitting here Friday doing an aftermath thing going because they're quite clearly Premier League football so they've got stuff but even within the Premier League there's that desire sets players apart just on Everton this is a difficult question of course but do we get enough through and do you believe the pathway is there because Everton football club since you left it has changed it's changed with the new owner Everton moved from having no money really limited amount of money which you'll know better than anyone being there to splash in crazy money on arm for players who I'm quite sure even in your professional opinion you would say why do you pay enough for him he's not worth that value we're almost at the other side of the second and we're back to almost with the Premier League not being able to spend a lot of money so therefore the owner shifts back on to can we bring players through as well you've talked about loans we haven't got a couple of decent ones at the moment Lewis Warrington's at Fleetwood and playing most games Tom Cannon's doing quite well at Preston we've got Lewis Dobbin out of Derby played 30 odd games for the first time in his career I'll leave into last Easter last question I'm going to ask you the last year is do we get enough through because I'm looking to that U team I let out before but nine played in the first team nine I haven't won the Premier League too a couple of times and maybe three and four I've done played in the first team maximum but only really Tom Davis stuck her hand others have gone do we and it's the pathway there do you think when you've looked from the outside on Evertonian as well of course it's a difficult question because you know it's like who's the best player you've ever played against or so or different time zones and the game has become so globalised now it's far more difficult to get into a first team I think sometimes parents supporters don't see that you know so would I'm almost answering against myself because one of the things that Howard said to me when I first started was being the best players you can but he said and I'm not bothered whether they're all centre forwards ok because they win you the matches and I always thought whenever we kind of built a team or I always looked at the front player and the thing that surprises me now is Tom Cannon and Elliot Sims and lads like that will they get the opportunity on a regular basis to play in our first team like Franny did like Shady did like Victor like Vaughny Caramagri so I always believed in having the best front players you could get old of and I don't know it wasn't a bad thing to answer your question is the you know are the less players coming through I think it's more difficult I think there's different pressures on the players now social media and what have you but the biggest problem is the globalisation of the game and information where I didn't even know the clubs in South America now you've only got to press a button and press young players so it's become and you can get data on so much of them now everything kids but Brighton did very well don't we they just brought Evan Ferguson through he's had a great see but again he might be a generational one for them he's developed brilliantly and he's doing well because obviously like you just said there's so much competition for everything money, people know everything players, clubs are looking and you know now you're going there's a 20-year-old in France and he might be the same Tom Canterbury plays in France so he's a little bit sexier or whatever and it is a difficult one last one I'll because I know where to push for time I could do another but just you mentioned only because you've just mentioned them but you had a plant weight who's obviously young Evan's centre back he's on loan a PS3 come from Carl Isle he's had a great season for PS3 30 games or four goals for them I don't know if he won Evan's top scorer if he was still here with four there's a lot of clubs looking at him you know there's a lot of apparently looking at him PS3 I think want to keep him he's 21 in June so therefore he's young for a centre back but Evan I think run a risk of losing him if he don't put him in so how would you look at that if Evan isn't ever telling him what be given your background as well you've got a lad who's 21 in the summer but he's on loaner at your European club and doing very well Evan aren't exactly amazing it's not like we've got two young great centre backs we've got three or four of our centre backs a 30 and what would you do with them well number one he's got a massive asset and he's left footed and he's a left footed centre back and they don't come along that one so straight away you've got a balance and dare I say it much will depend on where we finish you know and I don't even want to think about that because it's unthinkable a lot of changes may be made if the worst happens and that might be for the better so players who are on the fringe now could get runs and then be ready to come back in if it happens I think when you've got somebody as good as that at 21 he has to be in your squad and given a chance to play when I spoke about the process I talked about identifying recruitment developing right at the end of it is retain or release but in that has got to be opportunity now that opportunity is somewhere else he's already had it and so it would be crazy for all of that work to have gone on to get him to what he is for him just to leave that was what I was thinking is that you've seen that other process just imagine your academy director at Everton and you've seen him, you've got him and you've worked with him a bit and he's gone out and alone and he's gone to a bigger club and he's had the opportunity like you've said he'll play another three or four games for them this season and then he'll come back to Everton in the summer having played 30 odd times for PSV and European competition to be told third, fourth, fifth, you see it if you're that player I don't my opinion he would be on the team from what I've seen and what I remember but that happens all the time I mean you mentioned Brighton and they are brilliant at succession planning so they've already put programs together for you know if he goes he goes easy and easy you know you would hope that he would be a starter next season if not he would be first man in yeah if there's an issue we just haven't done that well enough have we succession planning, managers players could I finish with a soppy go on yeah absolutely absolutely I've done me a question part one I was the luckiest man in the world because I got to to work for the club I adore and I think in your questions some of it it was difficult for me to answer because I love the club and it's it's dare I say I'm not sure that feels there as much now okay and I don't just me in our club it's a stopping off place and maybe that society I don't know but I tell you what you can't build something or help build something and then leave it I couldn't so you build it right and I think when I do go into Finchfarm and when I see other there's all so much stuff going on I think the essence of the one thing and that was to develop one player per season sometimes gets missed okay I did a presentation not so long ago and it was to an American sports directors from clubs all over the place and I said any questions at the end of it and he stood up and he said yeah he said why in your aim did you just say one player a minimum of one player per season he said why not eleven and I've had my old time all over again that's what I did really? I would try and get eleven because you might get one then yeah aim for the moon listen right absolutely big thanks to Ray for coming in it is almost the 25th anniversary of that 1990 made the first, made the seventh one it's the one FA youth cup winning the days when Everton win trophies and get plays in the first team hopefully they will be back soon give this video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't put the comments any questions for Ray and Al and we'll have a tiata about that cos Ray I've got more I want to ask him he's got a lot of written down there so I reckon there's bits we've missed out big thanks for watching we'll see you later