 Okay, so we've spoken about it Lee and we're through with our first segment It's time now for our second segment which focuses on stuff off the pitch and off the pitch today We've got an interview with someone our marker on out of which of Austria has been suspended for one game by ufa for using Insulting language towards a fellow player after scoring against North Macedonia in their opening game I know to us reportedly racially abused Ali or ski who plays for Leeds by the way So our producer someone whose face you never see but today you will see We have a Raghunandan spoke to Nikola star it's a football coach who also works on anti-discrimination Education about racism in Austrian football. So we're going to jump into that conversation with this start by talking about the Austrian captain David Alaba. I think now he's he's well known and he's also perceived as role models and kids are running around with like Alaba t-shirts and everybody is like Seeing okay, they transfer fair now to Real Madrid and like it's really interesting for everybody But it took longer time for him to become a role model in Austria I mean he was he's very successful since since years since the last ten years and more with like By I'm unique one of the best teams in the world and I would say if he would have been like a white guy He would have become a role model earlier So like I would say Alaba had to be very very a lot more successful than any other Whitey would have had to be to to to become this person in Austria This is the one thing and the other thing is like Alaba he He played with FK Austria-Wien until he was 15 I think and then he quite very very early he he he was He changed the club and started to play in the By I'm unique youth. I think he was was 16. So like Even though the league in Austria is not so not so well if if a person is not playing in Austria then in Particularly in the youth age, then like I think Many people did not know Alaba in his first years when he played for By I'm unique because he he was he was so so young when he left Austria and And and just a few people followed his career in the beginning So like I mean he after the one to three years then he started to play in there in the first team of By I'm unique And then like he became a little bit more famous But of course, I mean racism with a is a big thing and I would say the fact that he's a black man different, I mean this on the other side in Austria at the moment if we talk about like racism and xenophobia the main thing is like Against people coming from Muslim countries. So I mean a good thing for us Alaba is at least he's a Christian. So so like this Friends if he would be Honestly, if he would be like a black guy with like a Muslim background, then the story would have been different again. So like But I can remember very well and when it was like seven years ago or so And Alaba already was very very famous. I mean a black Austrian player and like one very high level Austrian politician He shook his hand and started to talk English to Alaba. I Mean, this is also yeah, I mean and then Alaba answered like in this classical Viennese Like he just said like I'm I'm sorry you can talk German to me Austrian to me. I'm from Vienna. So German is very Viennese like apparently he's uses phrases that are very Viennese and He talks like a lot like that. I'd seen this in an interview on like something on buy in Munich or something around that so he's obviously very connected to home and He has this like very deep connection to Vienna also Yeah, but I think this is this small episode it shows a little bit like like how the situation is in Austria I mean this politician did not want to be mean, but of course I mean he could not imagine that there is a black Austrian who's grown there speaks Speaks Austrian as he does. So like it's really sometimes a little bit Middle-aged he's here and and you you have it all the time and then of course you have like the The heart and open racism you also have not so much at Not so much if you look at the elite clubs Because here of course like I mean if you're playing in the first leagues, then like you have players from all around the world If you would not be open for that then you would not be successful. So like this is like a globalized football market. So Being being racist as a as a top club is just I mean Yeah clubs in Austria been taking the knee or whatever in support of well for improving and To combat racism like English clubs have been doing it for a year now Have clubs in Austria did they do it at all? I mean, I have conflicted views about this now But I just want to know if Austrian clubs and players have been taking the knee and stuff anything of that sort Yeah I'm taking the knee and then interesting the black lives matter Movement and they did not Anticipated in Austria not at all, but of course clubs are doing something But but honestly most of it is because of our initiative and at least once a year Most of the clubs and join it and it's more like campaigning PR like going with you know Transparency on the field like we are against racism or we are against homophobia or or whatever We are like changing the topic sometimes, but this is kind of like quite superficial and and also this is something that now is also and The way for and the FIFA they also support this superficial campaigning. So somehow the The the the top clubs they have to take part in this so it's kind of a little bit an image story So like being being racist at not joining these campaigns like it's not good for the image of a club So this is the one thing and the other thing is are they really doing, you know from their inclusion Inclusion and and also the things that take time I mean having this campaign is so easy But like other things like training their stuff for like really education things or like like like having Spaces where there were people who are confronted with with discrimination can go to and so the things that take more time and resources And I would say they're not so I mean the there are some clubs were more dedicated here It's in one one one club in grads. They they they really take the anti-discrimination message a little bit more serious But others it's like it's just always on a very superficial Level and one example. It's very current in the in the game against North Macedonia on Sunday there was this case of now to which and and I mean he speaks the language and it was said that he likes said a racist statement against an Albanian player and and I Don't know what he said and I don't care But interesting is the reaction. Yeah, and the reaction of all his teammates and also the Austrian football Federation is like No racism. We never never heard racist. No here. I did not ever hear a racist comment on the pitch I mean, it's just like It's just like it's just a lie I mean, I don't I can't imagine that those players really did not ever ever witness Discrimination and it was always it was always like whites White players or white officials who said this so I mean, how can they say perhaps they just don't notice? Yeah So I don't care what what are now to which said but like the reaction was like the same like it was 20 years ago It's like neglecting if you say and this is always our role as fair play we go there and say, okay Come on Austrian football association. There has been like all your supporters shouted homophobic chance You have to do something and the reaction is he always the same's like what where well we have to see no There was no homophobia. We did not hear it and then if it's proof then they say like I mean not We're not responsible for this. This is like a problem of society. So like I mean, we can't change this We can't do anything. So it's like always these these two kind of reactions and and it was the same now and And this just shows that like they they don't take the responsibility not at all So, I mean even of course, it's also like a bigger problem in society But anyway, they as football is like one of the best funded Sport disciplines could like take the responsibility and say, okay, we we want to be role models We want to make a change. We take it serious. We say, okay, we have a problem. Let's do something That was a really nice interview. We have a book that is of course our hard-working producer of ever who was Talking about racism and how people are trying to tackle it in Europe But then that joke to Marna Padega now that you've seen whether now, you know why you don't see him too often on a show No, but jokes aside Supriya the same issue persists in Italy as well, you know historically we've seen Italy There's an issue especially you've seen monkey chants Players have got angry and they have left the field as well Have had they sort of moved ahead from it or does it still persist in various corners around football stadiums? your mute amateur move a year ago the Syria launched a campaign to fight racism and All of their posters featured monkeys just to give you context of how don't death is here. I Think similar to what what she mentioned There is racism denial. I think there's a couple of factors that play Italy in the last 10 years has seen massive economic decline Unemployment but at the same time a huge migrant crisis. I think when Balotelli first joined Italy It started conversations But nothing has changed When Lukaku joined Inter Milan and went to Cagliari, which any black player was being to play Cagliari Who's who plays for Italian side has heard monkey chants? His own fans the inter ultra's actually defended and said, hey Lukaku and I paraphrase you Welcome to Italy. This isn't racism. This is just what we do. We just like to make jokes That's insane your own fans are telling you get used to the monkey noises When Balotelli almost walked off the pitch at the Verona game the Verona Ultra leader said hey, listen, this is Italy. We make fun of the way people look We make fun of ballplayers. We make fun of the color of the skin, but it's not racism There's so that there's no recognition of what is racism here. I Think segregation has a lot to do with it But if you're not aware, you're not gonna be able to fight it. The numbers are shocking I think that in five years, they had 250 cases of racism reported across Five seasons of Syria, but if you talk to the average person, they'll say no Italians aren't racist, which by and large they aren't It's fun. If I can bring you into the chat, sorry Supya But more or less if you don't you can jump back in whenever you feel like it is fun So much of your travel has happened through football and you've been I think all over the world now playing the game and then with teams What's your experience been like from that perspective both with interacting with fans as well as those you may have met Just in real life on the streets and things like that I think you know like it's a problem of education People have been brought up like that if you you we all know that when we talk about African players here the first thing For India, Nigerian Nigerian So So so it's it's like first it starts with the disrespect only you know like or they will be available cheap and they do you know like You know like it's a big issue, you know like I have I know many times, you know, like how people call us you Indians So so there is nothing in in Middle East you might It's not getting you know, usually they don't get it doesn't get reported but but you know, like you feel like A second grade season when you are called like that, you know like Many times I because I'm from Kashmir. So I have faced that on a different way And people from northeast, I know they they have been racially abused every now and then But I think the problem starts from the academic education also like we are in schools You have to stress more on that and then academy, you know football academies here you have to you know, like stress a little bit more because it's very very important and I think football teaches us equality, which you know, like is because one of the greatest ever player Who who played the game was hella? so So I think that is where we should it it should be everybody should be Judged on his talent. I was recently. I don't know. I think I Whether I shared with you or general It was a BBC report. You're now, you know, a lot was non-cheese. So no negri italiani, which basically means there are no black italians, which Second generation not so many now in the team. Yes. So this this thing about being african but being Italian It's another race conversation. That's pretty new in Italy But any player who's played from botan to el-shiravi to ballotelli The monkey noises the chants and then being told but actually guys, you need a thicker skin There's no Defense of that, but there's also no awareness Within fan bases and society in Italy at the moment that doing things like that is racist I think denial denial is the key here, which everyone has mentioned nikola Supriya ishwak every and I said denial is the main thing here and just take our now to which is case You said ishwak has traveled the world courtesy of football. Here's another guy who's met Around the world courtesy of football. So in that sense, it's not insaniyat puti Despite doing that despite doing all of that. He's gone and done that Right. So it's so ingrained in you So you know So I think the best part is that you have a conversation The conversation is the main thing that the fact that these players are taking a knee And while people may be right in the sense saying key And that is the whole impact of taking that knee But I guess we're really far away from it But but the great thing is, you know, you're at a starting point I don't know where you are, but you're having a conversation about it Because if you're not having a conversation about it, then this topic is dead and you know, you have no way to fix it So that is great. Anything else you guys want to add before we head to where bikki bathe? I wanted to just say something whoever, you know, like our new new generation coaches You just have to Stop it, you know From where people think it's all right to say, you know, like you have to correct them, you know, like especially in India, for example That is where you have to stop it. You have to tell them It's not that maybe okay. We can bring Nigerian Liberian players, which is fine But the the way you are saying it It has to be you have to give them respect. You have to tell them, okay Let's bring two good Nigerian players rather than say go. Let's let's bring So I think that is where people have to understand people have to get educated Abshi the word derived from long back in arab It it was a place called abshah like where that's what it's like A Kashmiri player It's not associated with the black thing at all. Maybe those African people were there and They have to understand it. It's the name of a place that doesn't mean that it's a white color skin Probably player Admi osak that so it's not associated with everyone They are saying so so proper knowledge has to be and you know, like We have to stop them and in there even players be casually both dressing room may become players casually, but we have to stop it there, you know, like Chote se mazaak se bhi It gives you insight by The moment up a chota sa mazaak karte ho people realize. Okay, it's okay to Just joke on this. I think we have to just am look both a batch unko gali deni Galat bath. We have to tell them. It's equivalent to the gali one. So it's like we have to stop there Okay, sir. I'm a bit of a stadium, which is like the hub of taunts of racial taunts Maneh bhai na ek baari suna tha Hapshi to bola tha uske pehle yeh bhi bola tha national geography ke hapshi Maaf kil rein Maneh gha bhai this is next level Kya bol and uske aaspaas, you know, bachhe the Kya aapka you you play it umbed kar bachhe aate maafke dekhne kele match watch dekhne kele So that's that. That's a really bad one. I hope that's really bad You know, it's not that. I mean, of course, we'll be gali kaate bhai siddhant. Asa nahi kya? We'll be gani naik haate ho gari Khaate bhi hain aapas me jab pitch peh hota hain toh probably khilate bhi hain ek usre bhoad But but wo kis aap, kis taib ki gali deh rahin, kis kin words ka estmala kar rahin Wo sab kaafi, I think, maineh rata hai ish main And one of the things I've seen at least in Indian football is that for what it's worth Now different people can learn different things from different experiences for sure Like you were saying about what Anoddhavish did and he also immediately came out and owned up to this and apologized for it So once you know, but there's a full machinery behind him telling him So part of the conversation is that when a player does something like this Then immediately there are 10,000 people telling him Including his own captain in this case, David Alaba, who physically told him to shut up You know, on the pitch So it's super important what also Ishwak said that in a country like India Where players are coming from so many different caste backgrounds, religious backgrounds Economic backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds That in the dressing room you get this kind of melting pot scenario Where people get to experience one another's cultures and if we learn from it And maybe understand one another and accept what each one of our guests on the show Learned so much from playing the game with people from all over the country