 For those of you who weren't in Josh's session, Josh did a fabulous session just before lunch about the South China Morning Post and he's, I'm coming from their tutorial perspective and Josh was coming from the technical perspective and hopefully we'll be able to do a cross discussion together. So first a little bit about me. Hi, my name is Rose Ann Burston. I've been in content strategy since about 1994 believe it or not. When Kate Lundy this morning said that she's been angling for an NBN since about 94, I was like yeah I remember that and I wrote an article about you in 1995 when I was the editor of internet.au. So that's how long I've been doing this and I started life as a journalist. I was the founding editor of internet.au. I was the web producer for Choice magazine in 1998. I've worked as a digital strategist with Fairfax, the city of Melbourne, the University of Melbourne with Greenpeace, with News Limited and most recently with Sydney TAFE. I'm relatively platform agnostic. I've worked with Drupal, I've worked with WordPress, I've worked with SharePoint, God help me. I've worked with MySource Matrix, I've worked with all sorts of crazy CMSs. What I know from all of these is that the content strategy and the editorial strategy and the editorial workflow is one of those things that you need to work out before you start building your site and you know to know how technical and how aware your content team is to know how they're going to work with what you've built. So I'm now heading my own startup doing content and digital strategy and one of the things I do is I work with agencies to help build whatever it is the organization I'm working with wants to do. I know some of you have commented on my chief mischief maker title and that's kind of how I'm seeing myself is trying to take the wonderful things that we can do and make some mischief, not do the same old boring stuff that we've been doing forever but do something interesting and exciting. I like to disrupt expectations. When we talk about content strategy I want to acknowledge that Angus Gordon's talk was a fantastic beginning to talking about content strategy and one of the things that he mentioned was about how it's partly about your production flow and that's my first slide so hopefully this is a good continuation. In some ways content strategy is that thing you do at the very beginning of the process where you say how is this site going to look, what components do I have, what variables, what taxonomies, how do these things all talk to each other, where should I put this thing. If I have a website that is about you know cars and the car reviews along my website or tests of ridges what aspect of a car are there, are there models, are there make, are there colors, how do I put that on the site that's part of your content strategy. What I want to do is talk about what it looks like for the content producer, the day that they first put in a car into the system, how they're going to choose these things and where it goes. Those of you who are in media companies will probably recognize this kind of crazy production workflow as one of the things that you do just about every day. You know it's this thing where you're starting with story development and actually I'm not sure it's actually as visible as it could be in this slide sorry about that and then you're going into production and you're writing and then you're moving into copy editing and then you publish it but publishing it's not the end of the story because you've got to then grow the story with social media and then it all comes back down to you know this kind of story collation and story generation again and round it goes. So it's very complex as a system and I've got to credit this is from Amy Webb, the web media group. Does this look familiar to anyone? No? Some of you are nodding. The primary question for an editorial content team is how do we make this coherent and efficient? How do we talk about our production strategy, our content strategy so that we are consistently delivering the best quality content we possibly can using the content management system that the dev teams worked so hard to build for us. The worst thing that I see often is this fabulous site that's delivered and then about a month after it's delivered half of the features aren't being used because the content team doesn't know how to use them. They don't understand how to use them. They've forgotten how to use them or they kind of never really asked for that. They wanted something different and never quite was delivered the way that they expected so they're just going to shoehorn what they thought they were going to do into some other component of the site instead and it ends up looking like a dog's breakfast. Does that sound familiar to the devs in the room? Yeah okay so the question is how do we make this work properly? I've been talking with a couple of other people as well about how in some CMSs you end up with this fabulous site furniture around the edges that brings consistency but that the middle of the site is just a bucket that you tip the content into and of course that means the content is not reusable because it's just a bucket you're copying and pasting and it's not consistent because it's just a bucket and so right at that very beginning where you're having that strategy discussion with the editorial team is when you want to be talking about what has to be on every single one of these articles and it's not just a title and a blurb and a short title and the kicker that appears on the front page that's separate from the lead that's involved that's separate from something else and one image and the related content and all those other things you know there's obviously there's the meta information as well but if you've got video that's only on some stories you don't want that to be an embed code that someone's just slammed in somewhere you want to have a video component that can be dragged in in the right place by someone who knows what they're doing now as I said I'm not a developer I'm tempted to throw over to Josh to jump in here because from my point of view the ideal is if your production flow is managed within your content management system I've heard a lot of people talking this weekend about this week about emails that get flicked to people in queues to tell you that there's something ready for you to do I'd prefer not to be switching in and out of my CMS to know what I'm supposed to do and one of the things I've seen work pretty well is workbench which is a suite of modules that has workbench access and workbench node queue and workbench moderation that allows you as an editor to take the different levels that people have and move them through move an article through and you can log into your workbench and again sorry about the resolution of the image at the top there is content I've edited and it tells that person which articles that they're working on right now and what materials available for them to work on in Drupal and they can see you as an editor can log in and see who's working on what and what way and moderate the articles as it goes through and I've you know got to tip my hat over here to David yesterday showed me some new things as well with Panopoli and with the inline editing with Spark is it which is fantastic you know from now on I'm recommending those to anyone who's trying to do a site for content editors because it instantly makes it so much easier for those content editors to see what they're doing and edit the right sections of the page and not get confused about what they're doing and thinking oh well I don't know where it goes I don't know what's going on I haven't gotten to that point in the form so I'll just stick it up here where it doesn't belong so I think I put some of this in because I didn't know who I was going to be talking to I think that you all know about creating you know content people with the right levels of permissions and about not having nodes published immediately I don't think I need to say that what some of you won't know is about what the newsrooms of the future are looking like now I worked for News Limited as a digital operations manager from 2011 to 2012 I had 170 journalists photographers and editors working with us on 23 sites so I was working for News Local which is the local newspapers I imagine a number of you are aware of Inner West Korea North Seoul Times Blacktown Advocate went with Korea all of those are part of that family and one of the things that News Limited and Fairfax and just about everyone else I know of are working towards is a design similar to this which comes from an innovation company in the I think they're based in Spain actually and this central desk is called the Super Desk and the idea of the Super Desk is that the editor-in-chief and the picture editor and all of the key editorial people now sit in the center of the room and around those chiefs now sit the print team the social team the editorial teams the image graphics team and then on the very edges you've got the TV screens and the video screens and the broadcast and the social media monitoring spaces now not all of you are going to be working with enormous companies but even if you've only got five staff I think this is one of the ways you want to start to set yourselves up so that you can scale when you get there and those chiefs can you can optimize the inputs and outputs of your content you're also dealing in the in the newsroom of the future with the 24-hour new space and you all know this you're familiar with this but what you may not know is that even the news limited of the world are now all talking about digital first there is no such thing anymore as a print journalist there is just a journalist there is no such thing anymore as a morning and afternoon paper really everything just goes online and then it gets collated and pulled out into print and is that true not from there so let's switch over here it does okay cool so just a quick comment on with how it was we've worked in Asia they actually were sort of teaching that you need to quickly this way okay so yeah you need to look at media each medium that you your media to as different targets operate for different things so for example paper always goes out in the morning and internet goes out today at different points is going in and out isn't it yeah and and so if they looked at a story I think it was I'll keep going this way just in case it makes things better perhaps when you want off to see if that helps at all so it's like an event I think the example they showed was is an Asian country so I can't remember what it was say it was Taiwan one of an event to be able to host it in their country and the whole country was really happy about it that decision was made at 2 o'clock in the afternoon so when that happened it was on TV it got put up in social media everyone was really happy about it the news companies at the time should have pushed everything to their online platforms at that time and then the next day paper came out and it was still pushing that same message but in reality at that stage people had already gotten over the fact that it happened that already done this celebration with their workmates at you from 2 to 3 4 5 and come the morning they're ready for the next exit of news so instead you need to look at what I target the news and because it is a current event and the term current has just changed from being once a day to all the time and so instead the paper now needs to be planned to be pushing out something that preempts what's going to happen the day head don't look back on what happened yesterday so I think that's just a one point I had is a question flammer I'm prints and news media is the first time I've been involved in this industry I'm more of a dev guy software guy so by working with a client who primarily print but they recognize that you know they need to be online so they do have a website it's kind of crappy so so we're implementing Drupal right but one of the problems they are facing is internal struggles between the print editorial team and the web editorial team and I'll add to it they even have a mobile editorial team and they each publish different types of content often of the same title and one of the things I like to ask you based on that point is that one of the strategies this company is thinking of I'm not sure you know where the guy end up with but because online is 24 hours and once in news hit the floor it goes online so and you know by the time the print comes out it's all news so they're trying to change a strategy so that the news that gets printed is more in-depth and provide a different type of content that's satisfied those people who still enjoy having a print medium and then they also have a weekly publication where it goes really in depth I would say that that's absolutely absolutely the case it's sort of one of the things that happened with every single level of media that's as you when radio came out that changed the way magazines were read and when TV came out it changed the way you had to use radio and you know the internet came out it's changed the way you have to use the previous media and absolutely you know you start to see more analytical pieces in print because you've got that longer time and the the breaking news is now the web so you don't see the breaking news story with the big announcement anymore you've got the more in-depth analytical piece in the print but the other thing that that what your questions made me think of is that with news limited with what one of the things that they've done now is they've got a news team that's doing kind of 80% of the work for everything and then the other 20% is being pulled in from the other places so the Australian and the Daily Telegraph site and the news comm site and all of those other things and the iPad site etc there's kind of this 80% that's common and then the 20% that's being done by the other teams to localize or specialize so that that material is relevant for that audience so if there's a mobile content it's going to be more tightly designed for the mobile space and then if you've got your local paper then it's more coordinated for your local area but the you know you can scale up or scale down pretty quickly okay I also when I was at Choice magazine we had the same problem with moving on to web there used to be a two month cycle between testing and print and we were trying to we had a big change process to get the testers to put their data straight into the database that went straight on to online and then have the print product come out afterwards with the summary of the best products and that was a huge process and that was sort of you know an ongoing thing in 1998 even yeah oh with with Choice magazine it's like it's like consumer reports or which online or Consumers and Bond so they when they say best I mean at that time they were doing a barrage of tests for whatever it was and one of the things about online which was interesting is that people want to rate their own stuff and say well this is budgets more important to me this is more important to me and that's one of the reasons why it needed to go online first because the print product sort of comes out with well this is the top one according to the editors but online people want to be able to rate their own stuff but that's separate so I don't want to I'm gonna run pretty quickly through the content stuff that I want to talk about so we can get on to some of the paywall stuff because obviously that's also important so I'm gonna take you through an example news story there's no one production flow but once you've got your production flow you want that to be the same for every single story that you produce except for the breaking news because obviously if there is something absolutely massive and major that's just happened like you know some famous figure has just killed themselves or for me at news limited the example was some the guy strapping a bomb to his 11 year old daughter I think it was last year you need to be able to rush through very quickly and get to a manager who knows both the editorial and the legal and so on and so forth and I'm just no it's alright I'm just switching it round so it didn't keep flipping it's just held wrong is that the problem no worries sorry I don't want to stand in front of the can everyone still see that that's why I'm standing to the side I'm so you so you've got you've got your basic editorial flow and then you've got your fast-track editorial flow and since that's something that needs to happen in the in the editorial room your technical system needs to be able to cope with that as well you need some way of flagging this is a breaking news story or a fast-track story and so it's allowed to skip through some of the production steps because the one person is going to be checking it and they're going to be bored stiff with having to go through the three steps that normally have to be gone through instead of the one when they're trying to get something out before the competitor so I'm going to start with the beginning of a story traditionally what happened with print stories is that interactive was thought of last and putting it on the web was thought of last and so there was never any time to deliver from the really cool stuff that you wanted to do and I can't tell you how many times I've dealt with stories where they it's imprinted they come to me after that's been printed and they say hey we've been talking about this and we think that we could do this thing and it's like well now you've got half an hour that we can't there's no way the devs can do what you're talking about in half an hour whereas if they pitched that at the same time as they pitched the story the devs could have been working on it while they were doing the research and it could all be delivered at once so I want to take you through an example where one of our journalists Tyrone Butson had all of the coordinates of all of the fracking sites in Sydney so for those of you who don't know the word fracking we're talking about coal seam gas drills and he had been doing what he's supposed to do he'd been monitoring the social media and he'd seen that there were protest groups out there very upset about coal seam gas and so he had gathered all of the geo-coordinates into a spreadsheet he went took it to the news producer the news producer says yep great idea what do you want to do with it he says I think an interactive map great so it comes to me as the digital manager and I bring in devs and together as an as a combination as a cross functional production team we have discussions about this data what are the dimensions of the data how what can we do to that data to reveal more information about it is it can we size or colour code something to make something more obvious about it and in the end we talked about the depth of the wells and whether it's a production well or an expansion well and all those sorts of things you also talk about what tools you're going to use and the devs can go away now what happens how does everyone know what they're supposed to do the editor hopefully is going to write a brief summarizing that meeting so that everyone in the team the journalist the editors the production the devs know what's been agreed and can deliver and know what the deadline is my you know hopefully we're talking in the same levels here now how does everyone know that one of the ways of doing it is attaching a note somewhere as a block that has certain permission so that only you can see it and only the right people can see it and then you've got the brief in the system with the article why is the article there because the production editor creates an empty shell of the article even though the content hasn't been written yet so it's already in workbench it's already on its way through the system I'm not going to consider on this too much because from the sounds of it the people who are here from content already do media and the people who aren't here from content are devs not working on blogs but don't let the speed of the cycle get in the way of facts and ethics and it doesn't just happen to small companies NPR and Reuters got caught by the fact that this guy calling himself comfortably smug was putting out false information about Hurricane Sandy about power outages and mayors being trapped and things like that turns out he was a Republican aid okay but NPR and Reuters both retweeted him because they thought they didn't have time to check it's always important to check my other favorite is photographs the top one is actually from the day after tomorrow the 2004 movie and as you can see someone's photographed it photoshopped it to add a newsstrap to make it look more obvious more real and the bottom one's harder to pick it actually is a real storm but it happened in April 2011 so it's not Hurricane Sandy so just a note to any of you who are at Tim Berners-Lee on Tuesday night will have heard this as well we've got a stop concentrating on the death of print media and remember that we're still in the business of producing quality journalism right doesn't matter what format it's out there in thankfully no media organizations that I know of were fooled by the photoshopped images of sharks in people's backyards okay so now we're up to story delivery so the deadlines there all the content's entered into Drupal the writer is adding the links and images in our content process in your content process you might have someone else doing the images you might have someone else doing the metadata the way that news limited working at the moment is that there's a home page editor who takes the story as it's been done and that home page editor is the person who adds all the metadata and redos the title for web if it's already if it's only been done for print and that there's kind of a forked process at that point where the print subs it with the writers writing for everywhere but the print subs and the online subs are doing it differently at that point and again that's not necessarily your system but whatever your system is do it the same way and then the web producer adds in the interactive from the devs and checks the related content and checks the metadata and the copy editor is doing all that fun stuff that copy editors have done through time in the immemorial they're ringing phone numbers they're clicking on links they're checking that it all works properly and of course they just got more work than they ever did before in our case we did our visualization using a product called Tableau and if you haven't heard of it it's quite a powerful little tool and it does have a module called Media Tableau which relies on the media module and to bring in Tableau into into your stories in Drupal this is just to give you a quick image of what that looked like and as you can see what we ended up choosing was that we would color code whether it was exploratory or production and that the depth was size-coded so you can see that there was a deeper than 1.5 kilometer actually I've zoomed in on this to show you that what we ended up discovering was there were clusters so mapping that a visualizing that helped us understand where we then had to give the put those stories that the cluster of drilling sites was down near the Camden area so that meant that MacArthur Chronicle needed that story we saw that there was a cluster up in Central Coast so we knew that the Central Coast advocate needed that story and you know at this point you would start splitting those stories and localizing them go interview a few more people to make sure that works and of course you call it can also at this point to get your front-end people to make this look a little prettier by checking what classes Tableau is using and making sure that it all looks gorgeous in your site how does your editor know that it's ready to work on well you need a tracking tool and again you want your tracking tool to come into your CMS because you don't want to have to switch out my favorite tracking tool at the moment is harvest anyone here already using harvest a couple of people some smiles it's a beautiful beautiful tool it has Android and iPhone apps and desktop web and it's got a Drupal module so what you can be doing there is anytime anyone's working on a project they hit start timer they choose what task they're on whether they're a devil whether they're editorial what they're doing you've got a cost against them so it tracks up how much they spent how much their time is worth and when they're finished they can complete you can see exactly how much has been done you can add notes etc and it comes up into into Drupal in a sensible way that allows you to see where you are on each project and then the end game which I'm sure there are better there are other ways of doing this as I said I'm not a dev so maybe I'm going to throw over here again about how you guys are doing scheduling with you know once a story's in the system how does the editor say yep that's ready to go live it's different with scmp because they are print first and they think later so so yeah they actually push the paper out to the website and then then they say we'll have that that and that so by the time it gets to the website it's already in a production format so they'll just repurpose it so they don't they'll change the webhead but they won't change the content of the story for purpose for the web and they have a separate feed that goes out to the tablet I think currently by Wood Wing to produce that so it's it's a little bit different they use CCI to compose all of their content rather than you're doing it inside of Drupal we originally proposed they do it inside of Drupal but I think it just would have been too much of a culture shift for them to want to do that yeah not really I would actually look to the browser to provide that support there's a lot of things that you can add into the browser to make that kind of stuff happen I find trying to do grammar punctuation and Drupal or even in the server end of things kind of as complex because you need to submit it somehow it needs to process and think about that and come back with recommendations and you need to do that with a locality in mind right English isn't just English it's US English UK English they have completely different spellings yeah I mean revision supports easy enough and in fact no you can use diff module and you can see the changes between one revision to another and it's in fact it's kind of easier I don't know again I'm not a content guy but it's easier to push the thing live because it's all about that you know there's also that competitive edge you want to get that piece of news out before your competitor does it's easier to push it if it's wrong and then correct it later than it is to go late because if you get that reputation of being the first with the information even if it's misspelled it's it's people come back to you well yeah stuff Dakota NZ back home that's that's kind of them they they're actually owned by Fairfax Media and they have a number of papers underneath their arm and they have this online team who will want to push current events so you know there's a house burning and so they'll just take literally take stuff off Twitter and post it up there and stuff and it's it's wrong but as as the story unfolds it develops and it changes and it becomes better we could just go one mic better yes just so this is where you could have a fast track process for the breaking news where you say okay the fast track doesn't go through the extensive sub editing process and we trust that journalist is a good enough speller and that you're gonna miss the occasional typo but your main process for your big articles should not be going straight live that's a real problem from my point of view yeah and and Fairfax has been teased for this mercilessly ever since they outsourced no look no offense to New Zealand but ever since they outsourced their sub editing to page masters in New Zealand it's dropped down significantly and it's very noticeable to anyone in the industry that the and I'm sorry if anyone is here from Fairfax I used to work for Fairfax I love Fairfax but unfortunately that's true and people I know and people don't have time to go back and check because the next thing's happening and the next thing's happening and the next thing's happening I think it is important to get it right first time I think that spelling systems are important in this within the CMS's and that is improving that built-in spell checkers and you know FK editor and all those sorts of things start to have spelling within them and that people need to start using them better you know news limited it's very well publicized is moving to a big system called method and moving away from cyber page and up until now you know what one it when when I talk about different tracks the track for news limited has been at least for local news you write it in cyber page unless it's breaking news in which case you write it into the CMS so I am talking about an ideal situation in which you write everything in the CMS but the because what was happening was a an export system from cyber page into the CMS and the the idea of a fast-track version of your process is very common right yeah it's actually I mean it's a complex task trying to get enable people to do the concurrent editing that Google Docs offers because it requires a lot of hardware and and things that Drupal is actually kind of not good at you might have seen some people as a guy here in Sydney actually called Justin Randall who has been working with Node.js technology which is super fast and responsive and he's been working with integrating that into Drupal so that you can push something and pull it at the same time and interact with people in the same space and that would be the kind of place that you need to go what Google Docs have done and is pretty impressive they also you know you probably where they also create a Google Wave in fact that came out of Sydney and it's dead because it just kind of didn't I mean while it was great you can go fast forward and rewind and look at different parts of the document and things no one really kind of got the idea I think it's why it failed or maybe it was just wasn't very performant in browsers or something like that but there's an incredible amount of revisioning and thought and process that needs to go into that when you start talking about parallel editing and revisioning and tracking who did what it gets very complex you think about the amount of metadata that needs to be associated with every single keystroke you start to really blow up the amount of data that you're storing and tracking so I don't think that's going to happen in Drupal anytime soon mainly because it's so specific that require a significant amount of investment and I haven't seen anyone putting up their hand and saying yeah I'll fork out the dollars for that piece of development to occur so yeah I think it for now we're kind of more left with revisioning and googled wrapping around Google Docs well you can you could author the content and Google Docs if you wanted to it exports out into several different formats HTML open document formats and there are certainly importers that you can use to bring them into Drupal so you could get devs to do that absolutely you would be also content authoring your content in Google Docs and letting them host that data that you care about so much yeah so they don't have workflow why thank you for your timing because that's my second note there yeah I mean I think the MPR model is everyone's kind of amazed and it's a huge and amazing thing and if you are that big then absolutely that's what needs to happen and as I say news limited is doing that with method now which is the same thing that the Chicago Times uses one of the papers over there uses as well and it's exactly that situation where you want to be able to put content you know design neutral content in and it needs to be able to be repurposed and I think that that is it really is what you need to be able to do and it's just a matter of who's doing which components of it because one person can't have all of those skills necessarily and as I said before the way that news is handling that at the moment is that the journalists are putting in most of the content with a view to the fact that it's going into multiple areas and then right at the very end see what what used to have so selects old model oh this is going to be in the paper I'm only going to do it for the paper oh now we're taking this thing for the paper we better put it online oh it needs lots of work to change it to online oh now I'm going to promote it in social how do I do that oh I need to do this right new model I'm doing this all and it's going all the way through it's getting attached to images it's getting attached to content it's getting attached to meditators it's getting attached to everything and only right at the very end do I have oh I'm a print person I'm going to pull these bits of stuff that I need from that story and put it into the layout I'm a web person I'm going to pull these bits of the content that's in there and put it into the layout and I need I need the metadata I need the short heading I'm not going to use the long heading I do need this kicker I don't need that one I do need this I don't need that oh I'm the iPad editor I'm going to grab these bits of it and so it's and it's all the way through the system and it's tagged in and so anyone like I said before that someone's coming in and putting into the CMS the photographers are not putting something into an image system over there that then has to be exported for print separately from being exported for web they're going in and they're attaching print quality images into the CMS the CMS automatically outputs at correct resolutions for multiple uses that the editors at the end can choose and you know I think that the sort of massive content repository that the SPS people were talking about yesterday is that classic example that you need to have this huge system that takes care of all your content so that it can be used multiple times in multiple ways does that answer the question yep good um so um this this end game I wasn't going to talk about paywalls because I wasn't technical but I'd love to so what my my end game as a content person is that we then need to do social digital and print and it's not about the technology it's about how the message shifts in the different contexts which I think I've now talked to which is great thank you for the question um so I'm going to talk a little bit about social interdigital and single sign-on open ID and how this functions but I think that this is exactly where we start talking about freemium and premium because what's happening with does everyone know what I mean by single sign-on yep good so one of the one of the things with your single sign-on systems is you instantly know a whole lot of data about people the news limited system for the Australian is a freemium system where if you if you Google the article you can get through I think five times through clicking and then it says hang on you've read five articles for free we're going to start charging you the New York Times I think lets you read 20 a month and these are the kinds of new systems that's and these are not using your sign-ons that it's it's a different system and then you sign on but you're signing on registering so far with their own system I don't know if there's a way of combining that with social sign-on yeah I think specifically speaking to paywalls you can I mean there's a quite a number of ways that you can make that paywall work I guess it's all about figuring out for your platform what's the best way to make that work and so if in the case of scmp they were told that they could do a meter trial sort of thing in the similar fashion to New York Times so they read X number of articles and they get prompted to sign on and then you know that's all they get allocated for the month there have been other models as well for example there's the freemium idea where you actually can read the paper for free but then there's sort of add-ons that you pay for that make it more valuable to you and people who are really into a particular brand of news they're really interested in that they will absolutely pay for those kind of add-ons for example if you want to get news to your mobile device will you just pay for the app and you make money through that and things like that and that can be kind of a different model and I guess that's really more of a business level type thing and deciding how you want to make those models work for you technically the only thing I could really sort of encourage you to do is not do anonymous meter trialing because it's incredibly difficult to enforce it's you know you put the capability to track somebody and the hands of the person you're tracking they can just decide to drop it and pick up a new one to start from scratch again so there's easy ways of getting around it if you're smart enough you know it's either that or you know if you think that maybe 98% of your client base aren't smart enough to do it then just don't worry about 2% and forget about it it's the same thing with like you know banks and credit cards you know they know the credit card forward is huge but they you know they just pay it back anyway because it's worth having credit cards around so that that I think is you know this advice they absolutely yeah you're absolutely right so they do that and I guess for the most part it's like the numbers so high that you don't actually care at the beginning about getting rid of it and then you start using the 20 and you know 20 down the track you can't really enjoy the experience and maybe when you start to feel guilty like I actually I should perhaps pay instead of wiping my cookies and starting from scratch again yeah can I just point out that I probably am not allowed to say the numbers but New York Times and the Australian and New's locals experiences I think are pretty similar and New York Times has spoken about this in public a little bit that despite the millions and millions and millions of page views per month the number of people who actually come back on a regular basis is very small proportionally and you don't need to worry too much about the techie people who are gonna clear their cases because they're not necessarily your absolutely regular readers anyway and the absolutely regular readers who pay can the price points have been set in such a way that they should make it work because what you're doing is saying I don't mind giving away one article every six months to that to this huge number of people but they're only gonna look at one article every six months what I'm trying to do is say I you the those you know 10 out of 100 people or whatever it is you rely on us you can't survive in your business day without us so you're prepared to pay the other one too is just before your question is that you when you are tracking someone for how many views they can have you can only track them on the device and I don't mean the physical device I mean on the software device that you're using so you know every into every web browser that you've got installed has its own limit then you can switch to your phone into your tablet and they have different browsers as well and you've got your work computer so you know even though you might only get 20 articles a month in New York Times you can bus through that in a week or one device then switch so it really doesn't work unless you can ask people to invest in the meter as in put your username and password in and you can only get access to the meter through a username password then you can track on the on your server how many views have had and you can force that across the device but news agencies don't want people to do that because they'll just leave they think that that's important it's also probably worth also considering there are there are news companies out there that have a complete paywall block and you can't see anything without signing in and they have a very small number of users but they all pay a subscription fee and they make just as much money as people implement meter trial so you need to understand that the kind of users that you have you know are they kind of one hit time and they go away and they never come back or maybe freemium is better or if they are you know constant users or you know you can't sort of say here's a one-size-thing that fits everyone because you need to understand your traffic before you start making decisions on how those should work there's also kind of almost a system called an oemium which is um which is the crikey model where you can sign in for free and then they send you emails constantly telling you that you are you know a lazy bum who is stealing from them and you should really pay and they then they start saying to you know hi you know sorry you know high squatter you know is how the email starts how are you doing today you know so look I want to I will we've got sort of 10 minutes left and I want to quickly touch on a couple of other things and then come back to questions so one of the things was about tagging and taxonomies and how they can feed into social everything in our system was automatically tagged and that meant it could be then fed into yahoo pipes is any everyone aware of yahoo pipes so you can then feed that into yahoo pipes which then feeds into Twitter feeds which then feeds into Twitter and other are and any where else that you can stick an RSS feed so for example the story the fracking story I was talking about before would have been tagged with environment council MacArthur central coast in a west because of the petersham tower not petersham st. Peter's tower and then automatically picked up by those yahoo pipes automatically fed out into Twitter so though when you're doing taxonomies you're not just thinking about how does this work on the website you also should be thinking about how does this feed into the social systems that are out there and the kind of ecology the bio system that you've created for your your brand and we also measured and rated all of our journalists on their social media sharing so in addition to it going out automatically tie would have been doing it as of the old fashion way of cutting and pasting into his Twitter feed personally and then and here's where we're doing it backwards to south turn a morning post but it has I think a huge benefit is that it comes around in this virtuous circle is that you then can put on the side of an article all of these quotes because you've put it onto Twitter or Facebook and you've said hey everyone what do you think of the map go look at the map and comment on it they then comment on it you then pull those comments in as if you've done Vox Pops and you don't have to go stand in Pit Street Mall or Burke Street Mall with a camera and a journalist for five hours in the heat or the rain until you get enough people who said the right things to you right now if your news limited you also have a rule that they have to tell you what suburb they're living in so once you've chosen which suburb which stories you're going to do you need to choose to check that they're real people you just send them messages through Facebook from your personal journalist account and get their permission to put it in the paper but you've also should be sensible and have a terms of house rules on your Facebook site and on anywhere else that says if you comment on our page you are giving us permission to publish on yet well you're giving us permission to publish in print though you know it's or because a lot of people don't realize that and then they get a bit freaked out by it and of course you know there's more online down here you can see there's a little thing that says do you support or oppose these new restrictions comment online so you're then switching people back from the print to the online and that's keeping on this is keeping the circle going there are polls and surveys there's all those kinds of things that you can use and I want to so what I one of the reasons I really wanted to get to this end bit is one of the things we've been talking about here is about collaborating between dev and content and we always talk about agile when we're talking about dev but we never talk about agile when we're talking about content we seem to have this idea that we went to journalism school we learned how to do it and then we're done and it's just not true you can't shoehorn the old ways of doing content into the new world you have to adapt what you're doing and you have to adapt it on a regular basis and I think that what I want to start seeing is cross-functional teams where you have a stand-up meeting with editorial and production and management where everyone talks together about what they're up to and how they're working on it and what their challenges are so that everybody's understanding their own their positions together at news we had a weekly phone hookup with all of the teams talking about what our challenges were with online the sprints were still dev sprints every six weeks and everything that was new was then presented back to the editorial teams so the editorial teams could understand the new dimensions of what we could achieve I think that's really a very important thing you're also talking about devices and that's where your analytics are informing your content strategy because it's not something you do once I've cheated a little and stuck in a user persona slide right at the end because people think this is something you do at the beginning when you're doing a big redevelopment and then you do it and you don't do it again or you do it when you're first starting this website that you guys are doing because you've got a print product in doing it for the first time but I think user personas are something you come back to all the time who are your readers how are they reading do they dip in and out are they head what what news limited called headlines sniffers where they come along and they scan for the headlines and they go away again are they leisure readers do they wait for the weekend and read for two hours at a time if that changes you need to change your content and how you're delivering and when you're delivering after Christmas 2011 we noticed something very interesting in January 2012 all of a sudden people started reading the news half an hour earlier and we suddenly had a peak at 9 o'clock at night on a new screen size iPads everyone got them for Christmas and all of a sudden the mums and dads were waiting till the kids were in bed and reading the news on their iPads that changes your content delivery it also should end up having you go back to your dev team and say hey we need to make sure we're optimizing our interactives for iPad because that's now our key evening audience so we're delivering our breaking news headlines sniffers for mobile phones they're reading them at 8 30 in the morning on the train then they're reading on their desktops at lunchtime then they're reading on their iPads at 9 o'clock how do we make sure that we're delivering the right content at the right time in the right ways for those audiences and that's me done it's another question over here yeah I can I can I can expand on that a little bit yeah so there's open KLA module if you install it comes in two parts there's the API module and then the actual module itself using the actual module itself you know it enables the API module and you take a piece of content it'll firstly it'll create a set of vocabularies that align with what how open KLA categorizes things you send the article across it sends it back and it tells you here are all the terms for each vocabulary and it creates the terms for you if they don't exist previously and things like that and then it'll associate and tag it all you need to kind of configure it a little bit though because it can go over the top quite easily you can send an article away and it might be something like okay let's take this scenario when Michael Jackson died and there was is the fault was being blamed on the doctor so then that'll go into all kinds of things there'll be some cool things like it'll come back with Michael Jackson and it'll come back with medical science or something you know yeah well that's kind of medical and you know that's irrelevant and then it'll it'll just go you know and go way too far like I saw the color green so that's there and you know there's a country over here and and like start putting it you know really quite detailed now that you might want that stuff if you that's how you're sort of doing things when we had 800,000 articles and you get back say 30 terms to a single article that becomes a technical problem because 30 times 800,000 is a lot of data to store so we didn't want to go down that that path and have to deal with that much data so we wanted to reduce that it also meant that like you have incredibly huge topic pages you click on that topic you get lists and some will just have two articles in them and some will have 10 and some will have a lot different so you know articles that only have two well that's not really a valid page on your website let's get rid of that so you have to also think about other things like logic for reducing how much topics come in yeah yep that actually sends back a relevant scoring for each term it also there's a back you can it's a quote you know yeah it used to be the spring back in the early 2000s quarter tag cloud and you know it was like bigger tags and yeah you're cool if you embed one of those on the side of your website that doesn't happen anymore so from behind the pale the sharing sharing behind the paywall strategies to combat it or to encourage it yeah no I'm all I I know that there was a lot of discussion at the Australian about that to before they introduced the paywall about whether you were going to be able to get through the five freemium from shared as well as from Google and that's where some of the discussion about how much how much information was going to be shown before you logged in and that's why you can see three paragraphs for free I also think sometimes I see like news media companies coming on board and they realize that the end user expects to see ads whether they're logged in or they're a subscriber you know or not which is kind of funny because you know you there is a revenue stream for you so you know you could actually decide to just let your site be free access here's all of our content go ahead and see it you'd get so many hits you know you get all that and you'd get revenue from advertising so you're shaking your head because that doesn't happen right but yeah yeah yeah so but crazily enough though like there are certain ads that you'll allow on your sites that users don't like things like videos that play autoplay I mean that's one of the ones I was a pet peeve of mine because you know I just wanted to read your article I don't want you to take my bandwidth to play video I don't not interested in and yet you pay for a subscription and you still see that same ad show up it's like right but if you if you add blocking right well then then you kind of shoot yourself in the foot because if they're not getting the impression then they're not getting the money and they're not continuing continuing the product that you enjoy unfortunately yeah why what it's yeah it's kind of my point so you should so you're saying you should pay for a subscription and implement an ad blocker you shouldn't have to right yeah but behind the paywall they're still advertising is as you're saying and you're trying to find a way that you can encourage that there's actually I'm trying to rate my brain about what they are but there was a member was because was at the Asia media conference in December they spoke of three different types of people that you have coming into your site you got the the mass crowd that come by and they're sort of quick hits they look at your site they get what they came from it they go away and they don't really come back for most people that's a huge amount then you have people who buy into your subscriptions and they make you some money and then there's a people who buy extensions onto that and you know fully get into the whole thing and there's these three areas you need to look at how how big each one of these areas are and then strategize towards that model so that's yeah my experience what you need I think that what we're going to start to see is a similar system to the app models where there is actually going to be two level of paid and so you're going to have the the free model and then you're going to have the the minimum subscription where you get X amount per month but you still have to put up with ads and then there's kind of a super premium preferred customer version where you get you know untrammeled access and no ads and the ones who really really want that will pay that you we've already seen with the Australian financial review that you know the online version of that is a thousand five hundred dollars a year to subscribe you know that's unheard of no one thought it would succeed but you mean like the smh iPad app and yeah yeah so we were both talking before about woodwing and woodwing is something that just sort of takes materials out of in design and other Adobe products and turns it into apps and there's you know there's certain amounts of things you can do with that I think that the app the magazines that I've been seeing done with oomph and the pricing structure with oomph makes that work and I don't know how that works in with everything else you guys are doing but I don't know but I'm just trying to think about what I can add to that yeah I think you know from a from a technical perspective implementing paywall across all your devices is a challenge and so they do try and go I think you naturally find the people end up bundling stuff like iPad and videos and things and naturally because it's like if you have it or you don't have it because it's too hard implementing it in incremental bits yeah I think it's just sort of ends up happening that way and I don't know whether the sort of public have kind of clued onto that whether they kind of think oh extra stuff I'll buy it