 Sherry, it looks like everyone that was in the waiting room has now joined. Excellent. Well, welcome everyone. We have quite a crowd today and I'm excited to be here with you tonight for the short term rentals ordinance amendments community workshop number one. I do want to let you know, before we get too far into this that there is Spanish translation available. And to access that you will hit the globe at the bottom of your screen where it says interpretation. Folks who enter this interpretation space will also have the opportunity to participate in our interactive session later in Spanish. And I am going to now stop and let our excellent senior planner be trees on a grow. Say that in Spanish. Ah, para las personas que hablan español y necesitan traducción en la parte de abajo de la de zoom hay un botón que dice interpretación para que tiene un globo terráqueo para dar acceso al grupo de interpretación de click en ese botón y puede acceder al a la traducción tenemos a una persona que está haciendo traducción simultánea. Les pedimos también que se se queden hasta el final de la de la sesión, ya que vamos a tener un grupo que habla español que voy a estar dirigiendo yo así que estamos a sus órdenes y necesitan algo por favor, escribanlo en el chat y con mucho gusto les asesoramos. Recuerden el globo de la parte de abajo para que puedan ver la interpretación. Great. Excellent. Thank you so much. Next slide please, Amy. I do want to say also that due to interest, the city will be holding an additional community meeting on December 12. We were alerted to the fact that we missed one of our opportunities to let people know about this event and that is definitely not something we want to do we want to hear from absolutely everybody possible. So we will be hosting another event on December 12 which will be noticed and sent out via the same way you heard this one and even more so the the opportunity that we missed will will not be missed again. So next slide please. And like all public meetings we have certain rules that we, we, you know, expect folks including ourselves to abide by and with a group of 109 people it looks like 110. We just want to make sure that this meeting is safe and inclusive for everyone. So speech or actions that disrupt a public meeting or maybe perceived as aggressive demeaning or harmful towards staff or other meeting participants will not be tolerated. There are staff who will be monitoring this meeting and ensuring that everyone is participating respectfully. If staff determines that a meeting participant is acting in a disruptive or disrupt disrespectful manner, they will first be muted and given a warning. And if they continue to persist in that behavior they'll be removed. If anything crazy happens like a zoom bomb or anything like that we may also immediately in the meeting. I hope that never happens. So if participants have any additional questions or concerns about this they can reach out directly to me at s means at SR city.org. That's a lot of trees, or actually Charles. Your conversation is already being translated by Charles so. Okay, that's right it's live. It's live that's so exciting I forget how amazing technology is. So if we could go to the next slide that'd be great. Just want to give folks an idea of what to expect tonight. We're going to do introductions first, and then we'll go into a very brief presentation. The breakout rooms will be an interactive active session where we will have one staff member in each of the breakout rooms to act simply as a facilitator. There will be two questions and we're really hoping to have dialogue about that the staff member will record what they hear at the session and report back at the end of those sessions. I want to give a call I want to give a huge thanks to all of my colleagues who are here on a night off to facilitate the input of this work. Joining us on the call and participating in the meeting and breakout rooms or or helping me move slides forward. I'm the director of planning, Amy Lyle supervising planner for advanced planning, Lou Kirk, our amazing assistant chief building official, Kevin King communications coordinator and a great bunch of planners, including Susie Murray, Monet she colleague, Connor mckay Sheila Nancy waltzing. And we're also fortunate to have the a team working behind the scenes with Michelle Montoya and Kirsten day period. On the call tonight. Also, thanks very much is assistant city manager Dariel Dunstan and Claire Hartman director of planning and economic development. Please. So this starts the presentation part and most of the people on this call probably are very familiar with the regulatory history, but just in case. This all started back in August and September of 2021. We had heard from community members for several years that short term rentals were were bubbling up in terms of being a potential issue for the city. However, it was around this time that it became apparent that the city needed to really look at how to regulate short term rentals because prior to summer of 2021 the only requirement was to register for transient occupancy tax and business improvement area assessments. We went to the economic development subcommittee they said yes we want you to full steam ahead get an ordinance to the council as soon as you can this is a potential safety issue because of fire and quality of life issue. So, as quickly as possible we turned around and did as much outreach as we could for an urgency ordinance I'm pretty proud of what we did. We created a web page specific email. We did a public survey that was one of the highest responded to surveys the city has ever conducted. We held an industry specific workshop. Staff worked on drafting an ordinance, which was brought to city council as an urgency ordinance in October 2021 that established the most of the regulations which I'll go over on the next slide. But after that we noticed okay so there's some things that are not working that are still not working and so we went back to the economic development subcommittee and they said, yeah I think you're right let's let's come back with a couple of text amendments one of which was to allow renewals so that because the permitting has taken longer than we thought, and it is a large investment up front we wanted to establish a renewal process that would end up being less expensive and hopefully much more timely. Next slide please. So as I mentioned, these are just a highlight high level look at the current regulations. If everybody could just make sure they're muted. It's hard on large, large calls like this. So thank you. We established a permit requirement, a bunch of definitions. One of the amendment the amendment that I just talked about established a maximum of non hosted short terminals allowed city wide at 198, which was the number of permits at that time that had been issued, or we're in the queue. So it wasn't going to, it was able it allowed us to pause applications from coming in and assess where we want to go if that's the right number for the city if we should have more that type of thing. So in the 1000 foot separation for non hosted short term rentals, except for in, and for those that were operating a long time ago that met certain requirements. We established the number of overnight guests that would be allowed based on the bedrooms, a daytime guest allowance parking requirements, noise requirements, really trying to hit on those issues that were quality of life issues for neighbors, fire and life safety requirements including when and where to burn evacuation posting requirements that type of thing. We prohibited events and required a neighbor notification for those people around you so that they would have a phone number to call if there were issues with the actual operation of the short terminal itself. Next slide please. This also creates the enforcement process for the short term rentals. The initial complaint should be directed to the 24 seven contact which is provided on the courtesy notice to neighbors within 600 feet of an issued non hosted short term rent permit. And it's that it has an enforcement penalties that step up in terms of severity, based on the number of violations that are verified within one year. And enforcement is one of the key issues of this ordinance and so this is what we have now we're looking at you know what can we do in terms of making this better, and to serve the city, serve the city better so that's one of the things that we are definitely So if we could go to the next slide and so now is the fun part. This is the part this is the meat. This is the heart and soul of this meeting where we get to hear from you. You guys hear from us a lot and we really want to break out into these groups. These are the questions that are going to be answered. And our zoom hostess will place participants in breakout rooms and each like I mentioned each breakout room will have one city city staff member who's acting as a facilitator. The facilitator is present to ensure everyone has a chance to share their comments and to record what is heard at the end of the breakout period which is 40 minutes. The staff member will report back to the large group so we'll get to hear what everybody else is talking about to so that nobody feels left out and this format is is valuable when you have at now we have 129 participants. If each of those and say maybe 20 or staff I don't think it's that many but if each of those people 120 people wanted to spend three minutes talking, that'd be 360 minutes and I don't think any of us have, you know, six hours that we want to be here tonight. We'll save that for the city council meeting. So, we're going to break out into the sessions we asked that folks have their cameras on I see that a lot of folks do I really appreciate that it makes it real it makes it more of a conversation rather than just seeing a name or just seeing a black screen and that's what we're trying to do here is have real dialogue real conversation, real collaboration. I want to iterate this is not a time for questions of staff, the staff members present here are not necessarily, you know, experts on short term rentals at this point. Any questions should be directed to our email, which is short term rentals at SR city.org, and that will be repeated at the end of the, at the end of the session. Tonight on a slide so you'll be able to write it down in case you didn't catch short term rentals at SR city.org. So that's where any additional feedback or any questions that arise should should come up. This is a discussion among peers. And, yeah, so I, I say we're ready to go for it. Ms Montoya, if you could break us out into groups that would be fantastic and we'll see you all back in about 40 minutes. I sure give me just one moment will I get everybody into their breakout room. Yeah, you'll be asked to join a group. If I'm not mistaken that's how this works and you just click on that and the way you go into your group. And I hope to see some of you in mind. Thank you. Sorry folks bear with me. A lot of people. There's a lot of people. And that's why I called you guys a team there is no chance I would know how to do this. I could learn, but I do not know how to do it at this point. While we have a quiet minute I just wanted to say thank you for doing this. I appreciate that very much. How do we talk. Maybe I'll go ahead and jump to the next steps. If you're able to reshare your screen. When you're in the breakout rooms. Let's go ahead and skip to the next slide, if you would. Nope. So, when you're in your breakout room, you're going to unmute there's a little microphone somewhere that you're going to click on and if you can't find it, have your, your staff facilitator help you find it on your particular device. And then keep going with the community engagement as I mentioned we're already scheduling another outreach events. We've been working at showing up at pop up events so that we reach to, you know, the greatest number of people in the community. So we look geographically hey where's our event we can jump on to or I plan on just showing up at certain supermarkets or soccer fields or whatever to get community engagement. So that's the feedback from folks and this is just the projected timeline we're hoping to have, you know, some program updates for the economic development subcommittee which will have some new city council members potentially on it. That'll be January 2023 head to planning commission for a public hearing with the draft ordinance and then follow up late spring with city council public hearing, but I do want to say that we are totally interested in meeting everybody. If you have a meeting you would like us to attend, you know, reach out, if, if you have a small group, if just you want to talk with us. That's fine too. And if you have other ideas of how to get more community input we're also very interested in hearing that as well. So Michelle do we have any luck on the breakout rooms yet. I can keep talking. I'm sending everyone there now. Thank you so much. We'll see you all back in a little bit. I'm not in any break out. It should be popping up now. Hi all if you would like to go ahead and accept the prompts taking you into your breakout rooms. The discussion will continue in there. Thanks so much. I don't have an invite for a breakout room. I don't have an invite for a breakout room. I'm sorry what was that Chris. I don't have an invite for a breakout room. Okay, let me get you on give me just one second. Thank you. I think it's because I joined late. You should have one now Chris. Hi all thanks so much for joining us. I'm going to go ahead and put you into breakout rooms where the conversation is carrying on. Hi all if you could go ahead and accept the prompt taking you into your breakout room. The conversation is continuing in there. Thank you. Well, I'm going to go ahead and move you into breakout rooms where the conversation is continuing. Hi there, please feel free to accept your prompts taking you to your breakout room. The conversation is continuing in there. Oh, welcome back. All of the rooms are closing now so it'll be about one minute until everyone's back with us. Welcome back everyone. All of the breakout rooms are closing down so we'll be all back together and about 30 seconds or so. Oh welcome back we're waiting for just the last few rooms to join us. Just as a quick reminder if you could please make sure that you are muted. Great. Thanks so much. Let me know when we're all back. We're at 128. Is there another group Michelle that. Nope. Nope, we're all back now. Okay well I don't know about any of y'all but I think our group could have gone for another hour so we thought we were questioning is 40 minutes too long. I don't know I don't know I mean people have a lot of great input great feedback. I'm hearing more from what the other breakout groups discussed, but I will also say please please keep in mind that anything that you want to say that you didn't have a chance to please write to short term rentals at srcity.org and again that's going to show up on the last slide so you'll have a chance to see it as well as write it down. We can we can keep going also in the survey that's out if you haven't taken it. It's on the short term rentals website again this link will be shown on the last slide but you can find it at srcity.org forward slash str and there is a an open chance to just thank you an open chance to just vomit the soul if you will I don't know if there's a character limit but I know we have a lot of stuff to go through a lot of stuff I'm going to be reading over the next couple months so don't think this is your only opportunity. Again you can reach out if you want a special meeting with your group yourself whatever so this was hopefully a good experience. Michelle take it away in terms of having I guess group one report out. Yeah I think we'll we'll go ahead and go in order on this group one if the facilitator. Oh, actually I think that maybe we don't know what the numbers are so I'm just going to go on people. So group one so go first for our group. That's okay with with everybody. Yeah so group one you know we had a pretty decent size group about 12 people on about more than half I would say we're owners of not host non hosted short term rental so we got a pretty good amount of feedback from them in terms of, you know, what they think it is and is is not working at the city in terms of the ordinance. You know, a lot of questions a lot of items out of accountability came up and decorum between neighbors and ways to kind of rectify that I'm not going to go too deep into the into everything that was said just because there's a lot of people on this call. But one of the big major things was ways for one of the major pull ways was when does the city step in and kind of be a mediator to that when when not. Especially as it relates to host versus non. Excuse me non non hosted short term rental owner. Talk to how he has cameras in his place so that he is able to kind of monitor those folks from a distance that are his guests and keep an eye on them so I thought that was kind of enlightening. And then a lot of talk about the bedroom size, because it was mostly short term rental owners. Some comments about how perhaps this city is too restrictive on the bedroom size allowed for it to rental rooms. And then I want to make sure I get everybody's comment here. And then after I was mostly just decorum it was like how do we treat it how do we find that center ground between making sure the right players the right types of owners continue to host versus those bad players who are just frankly, kind of not not not not are not carries of proper neighborly decorum. So, that's it I'll have full notes for you later sherry. Thank you I do want to just say that I, Michelle check to make sure that I didn't just stop the main recording. We're good. Okay excellent because I did hit the stop recording because of my group ending and then I was like, Oh, I hope I didn't blow the whole thing. I'm going to respond. I'm group two so I'll end up reporting out next but Kevin I do want to let you know when everybody else that's on the call. When we first started this new program it's been iterative from day one. We were requiring certain size bedrooms because we had to figure out how are we going to count bedrooms that type of thing well we decided not doing that anymore so what we do now is verify that the number of bedrooms applied for matches a number of bedrooms that are on the county assessor's record and therefore and also within our GIS system and there have been cases where that's incorrect, and then our chief building official will go out and inspect those spaces and we can adjust them accordingly. So if you were originally approved for say two bedrooms but you had a third bedroom that was too small. Then, when you come up for renewal or sooner if you if you need to reach out and say hey, you know double check that I have three bedrooms and not to and we can take it from there it'd be much easier to wait till renewal but I don't want anyone to feel that they can't operate at their full capacity. So are we ready for me to report as number two. Yes, please. Well we had it we had a great group I'm just super happy with all the interaction and collaboration and unfortunately we really ran out of time. We had about 14 people because there were some people overlooking shoulders of others in the group that that were also participating. About half of them also own or operated a short term rental a couple of them were hosted. It was really nice to hear some of the positives that they stated about it that most people are just really happy that we actually have started to try to regulate these things and keep track of where they are and and are trying to show where they are so other people know where they are. And one person I thought was adorable she said now I know where my competition is, which I thought was kind of cool too. And they were happy that in terms of asking people behaviors that would be considered a good neighbor anyways like hey we don't want noise at our place anyways but now we don't have to say it's our rule. We can say listen, it's a law it's the city of Santa Rosa's rule, and we're going to get find a bunch of money for it if you mess up and I'm going to charge you for that. So that's worked well for people. And that's also a lot of what could we do better. And the main theme I would I would call out here was that folks were really struggling between hosted and non hosted and understanding how because non hosted tend to be where most of the complaints come from why non host why hosted end up with the same regulations and the same permit cost. And then hearing from also, again, hearing from the neighbors. Again, they were saying that it's mainly the non hosted. But again, hearing that, even with the regulations in place that it has not been enforced well that they will. Some of the people were saying that they reached out to our code enforcement team and we need to do better. I think we know that we're working on that. That type of thing and gave some good input for, you know, just that it affects quality of life if you live in a cul-de-sac and now there's no parking. That type of thing but hoping that most of the, you know, regulations that are in place if we can start enforcing them and, you know, make them a little better will end up taking away some of the issues that that people were were very right on discussing. Great, thanks Sherry. For group three we have Amy. Thanks Michelle. Good evening everyone. I had a great group as well. So we had a good mix of people, mostly it was comprised of people who either own a short term rental or manage one. And we did have a couple people who were neighbors. And we actually had one neighbor and who and one operator right across the street from each other in the same room. So here's a little synopsis of what I heard. I will say that we did have a couple people in the room who also had a unique situation where they purchased a home hoping to do a short term rental, and then the emergency ordinance went into place which capped the number of rentals so they weren't able to apply. One of which her neighbor shifted from hosted to non-hosted. So even if the cap were to allow her to apply she wasn't going to be able to because of the separation criteria. So there were a lot of really unique situations. So as far as what we've discussed, there were a lot of the room that felt that there were some issues with code enforcement and that really the standards of the ordinance are irrelevant and they're not enforced. And there needs to be a greater enforcement and also management. So everyone in the room really agreed that a lot of the issues stem from the management of the operations, but then also the code enforcement piece and making sure that there's a fair enforcement, that the violations are clear, that they're a value, that it isn't an anonymous complaint, that wasn't someone from out of the area or not a direct neighbor of the situation. And also there was agreement that events should not be allowed. Others talked about the thousand foot separation. A couple people on the call felt that the separation could be reduced maybe even down to 300 feet. And let's see. Also, there were some very personal feelings about how the establishment of the cap really violated rights of a homeowner and being able to accomplish having a short term rental and some people on the call felt that it was an inherent right as a homeowner to be able to allow for that short term rental and that because housing stock is such an issue. Having the ability to come in and even rent for 30 days is valuable because a lot of people work here and are not able to relocate here because of the tight rental market and housing crisis in general. And then there were comments about the cap that 198 was too small for the size of the city. And that there that should be reviewed. And then we had some conversations about the standards. And then we had a couple of people who managed short term rentals felt that the limit on overnight guests was appropriate, but the additional guests that are allowed during the daytime is a little bit too subjective and too restrictive that there needs to be flexibility afforded there. And that quite hours are reasonable that parking is reasonable it does need to be regulated noise does need to be regulated. So I felt the balance of needing standards in place but the ability to operate. And, and also that every new every year or every every other year, maybe to cumbersome, and that the life of a short term rental is typically less than three years in general. So it may be something else to consider. So that pretty much summarizes everything that I wrote down from our room. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you. Okay, so we didn't have a group four. So Sheila group five. Great, thanks Michelle. No I had the best group. Yeah, we had a great group everyone was very considerate of one another which was awesome we raised hands and so it was manageable. Most of the folks in the group either owned or managed or were considering having an str there was one hosted str operator, a neighbor of an str that was unhosted or non hosted. And someone who lives in Montecito Heights where there have been some issues with non hosted strs and events. So I think I've bulleted some things here. Someone brought up that a neighbor, one person has a total of 10 str permits. So is that something that the city maybe wants to look into. And enforcement and penalties. There was a concern that they don't want to see one bad Apple essentially ruin it for the rest of operators who are behaving well and managing their properties well. So the person in your group, Amy, someone in my group also purchased a home with the intent to one not only live there but also at some point do a non hosted str and then the regulations went into effect. So they felt kind of blindsided by that. Also the sentiment that 1000 feet is too expansive. 198 is too small of a cap. So the property manager mentioned the preemptive things that one can do the outdoor cameras the noise sensors things like that. That having an str can incentivize property owners to upgrade their properties which is something that could bring money into the economy. People said they would like to see a committee come together of people I don't want to say anti and pro str but kind of that sort of group so people could work out some issues together in a committee and maybe meet annually. So they had someone bring up the set fee to get it to get a permit this was the hosted str person that mentioned they made about $3,800 per year on their hosted str and then had to pay something like $1,200 for the application fee. So, maybe try to figure out how that could be right sized. If you're wanting to have str is viewed as a land use. That's something that's transient in nature, and that it's allowed in far too many zoning districts. Another gentleman and mentioned he has a str non hosted he lives close by it and how much care he takes to maintain it. The gentleman who lives next door to the non hosted str mentioned that you can still make money by having your second or third home whatever it may be as a long term rental. And that having these types of non hosted strs, not just the parties and the other kind of nuisance issues we think of, but it really disrupts, excuse me disrupts neighborhood patterns, people bringing different dogs people coming going at different times of the day you don't, you don't get that established neighborhood pattern that you do with a long term neighbor. And also that the companies and people with these multiple permits are driving up the prices and a concern of where will this person's children be able to live. So, thank you. And thanks to my group. Great. Next we have group six Connor. Thank you. I also had a great group. Basically in our group there were pretty good balance of hosted and non hosted short term rental operators. In addition to a neighbor of a short term rental that has had some issues with nuisances in the past. I want to also note that we had one hosted short term rental operator that lives in an older home, which includes a guest house that has no multiple permits and therefore had their short term rental application denied even though they had been operating a hosted short term rental, somewhat historically. So, the summary of the positive remarks we received, basically the consensus for the group of short term rental operators that it's a great opportunity for economic benefit, which has been discussed by the other groups. I also agree with the regulation related to events and overall noise that reduce the nuisance that is posed to the surrounding neighborhood. And in that same vein, having some city regulation as Sherry's group mentioned is beneficial as having something to kind of lean on as you're reminding your guests what it means to be a good guest and being in compatibility with your neighborhood kind of identifying acceptable behaviors as a as a guest. So for moving on to some areas for improvement. I've heard I heard a pretty good consensus that the cost of the short term rental fees are very high. And this in turn disincentivizes the operation of short term rentals and a couple comments were made that this disincentivization is kind of in lieu of proper mechanisms for behavior enforcement by the city so they're kind of putting the onus on private land owners to enforce their own activities that are happening on their private property, whereas additional enforcement of the existing regulations would be a better benefit as opposed to just trying to disincentivize via high fee cost. They support for increased opportunity for a larger number of operators I think that the group of host of short term rental operators generally agreed that they their opportunity to host a short term rental should be expanded to a wider range of folks to kind of more align with the supply and demand, because we've heard that from our group that not all the short term rentals are occupied every night so if somebody you know it wants to operate a short term rental they should just have that right to do so. We've also heard of some opportunities for leveraging existing feedback loops in the Airbnb system itself such as guest rating and host rating to kind of that who is hosting and who is a guest at these various short term rental locations. I believe that the regulation that we are seeing in the code as it stands today are it is perceived that it's the result of accommodating the more extreme nuisances in the city whereas the majority of the hosts are strict about rules and do not result in those and these regulations that are trying to capture those more extreme cases are disproportionately affecting the more responsible hosts that try to do a good job about being good neighbors in their communities. I also heard that there needs to be a bit of more clarification about the enforcement related to noise like what constitutes a violation. We had a couple folks that have cameras and actually decibel meters. And they're not exactly sure if they were to receive a complaint from a neighbor and they have all the noise decibel data. Like what types of data would be at play when the city is verifying that complaint and then would therefore move it from a complaint to a violation because they're concerned that maybe if a neighbor doesn't like certain values or lifestyle choices of that hosted short term renter, they might fraudulently submit complaints or other complaints that are more based on personal tax and so we want they want to see greater verification of those complaints. And then finally, the general lack of responsiveness from the city as it relates to nuisances themselves. Basically, they would leave a voicemail for the 24 seven contact and they would not hear from them until the following day, which doesn't really capture the issue if somebody's having a large event or otherwise there's an issue that's happening late at night and they can't sleep, getting a voicemail or getting a call back and the next day doesn't really help them and then the city staff being available just Monday through Friday. As it stands now is not helpful in mitigating those issues as they arise in a timely manner. So, I tried to capture all the comments and I think that was kind of the the meat and potatoes of them so to speak so I really appreciate everybody's frank conversation and in your attendance tonight. Great. Thanks Connor. All right, group number seven, Jamvin. Thank you miss Michelle and good evening everybody. So, I had a great group as well. Thank you all for being so respectful and mindful of each other. I had a we had a mixture of people we had some people who hosted some people who just want to listen in and get some information, some neighbors who had concerns and want to get more information and people who actually own short term rentals. And also we had a unique case on one of our, one of our group members. He kind of he described it as a nomadic lifestyle and so he, he's a new resident to Santa Rosa and he wanted to rent out his home but according to the distance ordinance he wasn't able to so he was really disappointed by that. And so that was one of the downfalls that was one of his, his cons of the ordinance. One of our group members they really liked the hotline they think it that's that was a great idea it helps cut down the, you know the violations of the ordinance and it gives people a safety valve. So, also had talks about like having conversations with your neighbors key like don't, don't try to hide from your neighbor don't try to be sneaky with your neighbor like just be respectful just, you know just just talk just talk it out with your neighbor. And all one of our group members, he also had, he took extra measures for his hosted short term non hosted short term rental he actually had cameras he had a decibel meter, and he was like I'll go to extra mile to actually follow the rules and the people who don't follow they're making it, they're making it worse for us. Um, we had a, that was a lot of concerns about the short term rental fee being too expensive I had a couple of people who said they were second guessing actually doing a short term rental because there wasn't the their business plan wasn't even pincening out so that was a that was a big concern about that especially for people who don't, who don't run out like what if you just run out on the weekends or you just run out once a week. So that was a big concern in our group. And also, we had, we had some concerns about the guest requirements is too restrictive. And yeah that was about the gist of my, my group, it was kind of quiet but respectful. Thank you. All right, for group eight, we have Jessica. Great thanks Michelle. Hi everybody my name is Jessica Jones. So we had a pretty good mix of people in our group of both non hosted and see I think we had maybe a couple hosted rental property owners, and then also neighbors of folks who live near both hosted and non hosted permits. So good conversation. There's a short list of what's working well, mostly the hosted portion of the ordinance seems to be working well. And there were a couple of folks who thought that limiting the number of non hosted in the city is also working well. And then there was appreciation for the city trying to work through the problems that we currently have with the ordinance for what's not working well or what what we need to look at for fixing. And there was a lot of discussion about the rules in the current ordinance and how they're perhaps not very clear. There's a specific example of the ordinance being too subjective and not objective enough, and creating a situation where it's challenging to understand what the rules even are. And so there was a couple of examples that were given. And one of them was the requirement for events or the requirement that events not be allowed. And specifically what is an event. The ordinance does not currently define that. And so you know it does that include a family having dinner on a front porch, you know what what does that event constitute. And also, you know what does it mean to have a noise issue is there was a lot of discussion about how people have different varying levels of concerns about noise and what is a noise issue for them. And you know I heard a couple of the report outs tonight talking about the potential for putting in a noise monitoring device, and that was brought up in my session as well, that maybe that would be a good opportunity for property owner to install something like that to help monitor noise at the property. We also talked about the cap that the city has put on non hosted rentals. We heard a little while ago we also heard in our group that perhaps the cap is too small for a city of our size. There were some folks in our group that would rather not see any non hosted rentals at all. We, the city should re look at that non hosted cap, but also consider that it could be having a cap at all could be a hardship on folks who are trying to earn money to live here in Sonoma County. Let's see, there was concerns about the fines for violations. There were some little points on that one that fines should be greater for verified disturbances and actual real issues regarding disturbances and smaller fines for more minor violations like providing a TOT number on their, their ad in a local rental place. So, kind of re looking at how we do those, those fines, and then also on the fines concern about enforcement being an issue. And, you know, whether people are actually getting citations that could ultimately lead to removal of their permit. There was a suggestion of making it mandatory that owners that property owners go through a professional management company for non hosted with a local contact number and and a management company that has a proven track record. There was a couple comments about the local contact being called and as it turns out that local contact was not local and in one instance the local contact was answering the phone in Florida. Clearly not local. Discussion about issues with parties happening late into the night, and not being able to get a hold of city staff and not getting response soon enough from city staff when there are issues. Let's see. There was also a comment about rules for short term rentals being different for the strs than they are than any rules that the city would have on a normal property owner, and the city shouldn't be looking at discriminating against short term renters. It turns about the signs that have been put up in in some of the areas of Santa Rosa identifying homes not hotels and concern about whether those should be allowed because things like political signs are not allowed to be provided all year long so the city needs to look into that. I think that kind of summarizes the the comments from our group. Okay, thank you. All right, next we have group nine and Lou. Hi, thank you Michelle. Hello, Lou Kirk. I have to say that I had the most outstanding group and I will not broken the argument on that. It was a really good mix. We had about half of the group that had an str or involved in the industry, half of the group that didn't. They were vehemently opposed to them being in the city at all. And yet, there was so much civility, just across across the board. I was very impressed I was very humbled by these outstanding people that choose to live in Santa Rosa. So that being said, on the str side there was a general agreement that the permitting process was easy, although there was some distance, there was some disappointment and and how long that took. So that's part of the ordinance. It came across as an easy process. We discussed the fact that enforcement is too tough. And we enforced, and we discussed the topic that enforcement was not tough enough. So again, getting getting it from both sides of the aisle, which is as it should be. Some of the more specific comments included the two person per bedroom rule really has a negative impact on a person's ability to utilize their str. And the observation was made that it shouldn't matter if, if, if all else is being observed if the quiet hours are being observed, if there's no disturbance, then, then why have that. There's a comment that should allow for home swapping, not necessarily as an str type in and of itself, but that's something that maybe was permitted before but is now affected by this ordinance. And so some consideration was asked for that. There was a lot of interest in people receiving copies of the success guide that went out in September. Apparently a lot of a lot of people just didn't receive them. So I, I said that anybody that wants more of a way to get it to them. Again, I had one person that felt that they should not be allowed at all. But if we are going to allow them that there should be a solid fencing requirement. There should be accurate directions to the short term rental so that we don't have people driving up the wrong driveways or down the wrong streets, but they know where they're going, and are given good directions to get there. A comment was made that there should be public input for SVR approvals much as we approve CUPs, things like that. In general acknowledgement, I think that bad actors can ruin it for everybody. And with that in mind, there was a suggestion made that there'd be an operator education program, where, ostensibly the city would work with these new permittees to make sure that they understood the rules and were sensitive towards their neighbors needs. And the last comment I made was that there was a there was a question about having a non operation status. For example, if you if you wanted to maintain your str, but wanted to take a year off that maybe you pay a reduced fee to keep it alive. But you commit to not using it. What was noteworthy was that my computer crashed right in the middle of of the thing and I was gone. And I ran to Michelle and told her to jump in for me and by the time I got back on one of the str operators, and one of the people that were really really against strs we're talking and they were communicating, and they were having an understanding. And I thought well I should have just stayed off the off the call the entire time. But it was a good group and it was a good dialogue and I'm very appreciative of everybody's here tonight. Great, thank you. All right for group 10 Monet. Okay. Oh, okay. In my group, including maybe had 10 people four or five of them are just attending to listen. So for five others only spoke including me. The comments about ordinance or ordinance is that it is good that limits the number of occupancies per room. It controls events like natural in parties regulates parking and how many people can stay and it also as for the phone number of the short term rental person so neighbors can contact that person. So it's basically it's good that we are respecting neighbors complaint and about what it can improve or change with our ordinance. Well, before that there were like a comments about we need more data, like a data about the short term rentals how it benefits or impacts the city. We have a housing shortage does this new short term rentals have any impacts or housing shortage. How about our t o t tax so a data background and the short term rentals would be helpful. And then also similar to some other mentioned about the fees. So the fee and annual renewal fee is a little bit high. If it's good to reduce that fee and maybe just be a complete like an old time short term rental we don't ask for a renewal fee. And also our ordinance need to address like what will happen if the ownership changes. Does it get canceled or it can be transferred to someone else, what will happen to that 1000 feet distance. And some comments were about like, maybe we should reduce the 1000 feet distance in areas like in downtown, where we have more infrastructure we have more restaurants we have more public transportation, versus areas like a Fanting can stay 1000 feet distance but in downtown it can bring also more tourists. And there are people that are like a traveler nurses they are coming and they can stay more in downtown area where those infrastructures are provided. And also one more team, let me see more data needed data housing. And also another comment was like it's not fair that one person can have multiple short term rentals there are some cities that one person has 12 or 15 short term rentals. It should not be allowed in also city of Santa Rosa. And and also it's good to identify the type of person is like a using the str is it for like a traveler nurses or is looking for a family gathering. It's good to also have that information. So those were the comments from my group. Great, thank you. Thank you. And group 11 with Susie. Okay, group 11 had, I think 13 people. There were some that had other people over their shoulders but I think we were a group of 13. It was a great mix. People that hosted people that hosted non. They had hosted and non hosted facilities. And I think it was a great group for being really polite to each other and really honest. I appreciate feedback. And yeah, but you were honest about it. So I'm going to start with the positive because that's always a good place to start, although I will say that the opening positive comment. I thought it kind of was funny and that is that the city is really good at collecting the TOT and BIA taxes. And that one, it just, it gave us a good kickoff. So the parking requirements that the city has and the, the no party regulation, those are good points events that follow the noise and occupancy rules. These are really appreciated. Limiting the number of bedroom is good because it doesn't it doesn't suggest a party house. Limiting revenue to our town and area, the restaurants, merchants, et cetera, is a super positive thing for our community. I'm going to say that I'm going to cut in here and say that. There, there wasn't anybody that was absolutely opposed to short term rentals with regulations. There was an individual that had several people or several homes on one street that were being rented out. And that was very problematic. So, back to the positive. Now that the current systems are in place, the regulation, the existing regulate regulation is okay to work with. It supports. Yeah, again, the, the having the regulations, people are, there were individuals that were happy to have the regulations because, because without them, you can't enforce them. So, it's, it's tough to put all operations in one category. So, or all operators in one category. I think we've heard that throughout whether it's non hosted versus hosted, or a lot of, a lot of smaller homes and they may not generate a lot of revenue and vice versa, larger homes, but there are larger homes that may just be rented out at certain times of the year. We had an individual who he leaves the community during holiday seasons, you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas, and rents his home out to families because it's a big home with a lot of parking, a lot of bedrooms, a nice big kitchen and it's real conducive to that type of family holiday celebration. So, then I wanted to point out we got two good jobs. First one was it's a really good start the urgency ordinance and we can fix it. And the other one was good job at listening to the community so I'm going to send that out to Jerry and your team kudos to you. Now we're going to go into some of the more negatives. The short term rental community doesn't feel heard. The lack of response from city staff to the permit applications and complaints. There was concern about new rentals come more new rentals coming on when a home goes up for sale on an area that already has short term rental units and has some bad actors in those for sale sign is terrifying. Lumping hosted and unhosted short term rental businesses together isn't right. Generally speaking, hosted is not the problem. Why can't operators who have been in business for years with a track record of paying to tax continue to operate while the city figures out how to get how to process permits. This individual acknowledged that he missed that original deadline, but that was kind of a surprise so it doesn't. I can't say that everybody but I think that several people in the group didn't support the 1000 feet separation and there was a suggestion that if we do do the 1000 feet separation, or 1000 foot separation, that it shouldn't be as the crow flies, it should be as the car drives. Support their support limiting the number of units one operator can own as an alternative to the 1000 foot separation. We got some suggestions as well. I'm going to go back to some of the short term rentals. If, if we were to limit the area, it was, or I guess I didn't, I didn't completely understand this I'm going to do my best to add live putting them in commercial areas, where perhaps maybe the same same rules may not apply in residential area to be more restrictive but an area where you're surrounded by commercial uses restaurants and what have you that maybe. It's a little bit more conducive to that environment. To T collection there was a suggestion from an operator as a gentleman who manages short term rentals saying that we could to help us collect those taxes, the websites like you know Airbnb and whatnot. And to collect those taxes and providing an online payment option would be really helpful. And then limit it limiting I think I already said this limiting the number of permits and operator can have yeah I did say that in in as an alternative to limiting the distance between I think that that pretty well summarizes it we had a really good group and it was a mix of people and I, I gotta say, you know, considering some of the meetings I've watched I was so happy to see everybody people like. So, thank you. All right, and group 12 with Nancy, and Nancy is our final group report out tonight. Great. Thank you. I'm Nancy watering and I will report out we had really excellent comments we had a good balance of neighbors and also hosted and non hosted short term rentals and I'll start with some of the negative comments because then some of the positive comments helped address some of them. The major comment was disruption, loud parties filthy language coming right over the fence people that felt an unpredictability about the way they could use their properties because parties had become so disruptive afraid to bring them over and just not knowing what to expect. And there was concern, particularly about non hosted parties as a number of people have mentioned on the call tonight. And, and specifically that are owned by corporations where there just seemed to be less accountability, and there was concern about non hosted in general and maybe they shouldn't even be allowed given the housing crisis. There was concern that they affect property values there was concern that they should. There should be a disclosure in the escrow process. There, they feel that there needs to be better notice about them being going into the neighborhood. There was a concern about size of feeling that up to about three bedrooms didn't seem to be a problem more than that, they tended to be more problems. The enforcement process is not clear after a complaint it's often not clear whether the complaint led to a violation or not so just more, you know, clarification about how that works. We had the penalties or do I and the penalties are too low and there seemed to be a general feeling that non hosted panel houses should have higher penalties because they seem to be more of an issue. There's also a comment about the 24 seven response that the local person that was hard to find somebody that could really be available 24 seven and if there was truly an incident it seemed that the police should be addressing it first, and not a local person so there was concern about vandalism and and that even when there are violations some of the businesses continue to work on the positive side. It was interesting we had a couple of different people with non hosted properties one on a fairly large size five and the other on a 10th of an acre, both of whom had been able to run their, their homes for years without problems and some of the issues seem to be their well monitored. They also use the decibel one of them use the decibel levels inside and out they screen people carefully because of the larger lot it didn't seem to affect neighbors. There's a general comment that there's so much technology available right now that there really are ways to address it. And for the, the person that was renting out a place on a 10th of an acre and doing it for four years without problems, and they both had a kind of the consensus that this is their home and so they really screened people and we know one wanted to cover that. In general, there's a comment when, when people live there for hosted rentals that doesn't seem to be much of a problem. The penalty should be much higher for unposted as I mentioned, and that's just about it people were really respectful had good ideas and very open to sharing and we had about 12 people in the group. And that's it Michelle. Thanks so much and Sherry do you want to wrap it up. Yeah, I just, it, if we could put up that last slide that has the. Yeah, thank you so much. I think everyone, I mean, I hope everyone feels the same as me I kind of have the warm fuzzies about this meeting I feel like we heard some good stuff, there's going to be more detailed notes I certainly could have shared a lot more that was said in my group but I have it on paper and we have the breakout sessions to watch again. I really hope that you know, it turns into something that makes makes most everybody happy. And I want to thank everyone for taking the time to be here I don't look at that lightly, it was a big chunk of time a big commitment, and that's including my fellow colleagues and I appreciate it everyone was so wonderful and I don't know if anybody else that was on the on the group wants to say anything I just I just say thank you and please reach out with anything you didn't feel that you had an opportunity to express and keep a look at me walking around with an iPad someday with with the survey oh that's the other thing I do want to mention. Again, that if you go to the short term rentals website, which is short term rentals. I'm sorry, SR city.org forward slash str, you can access the survey if you have not, and there will be an opportunity to provide some some comments there as well. And if nobody else has anything to say. So that's a wrap. Thanks everyone so very much appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.