 Hello Melbourne Yeah So apparently we're using the mics so we're gonna do a very smart shift in Gonna do a sword of people on stage with Mike That's a developer jokes no I'm good I think by the end of two days We can go I Mean sort of like we are now and then we'll lean into the mics when we're talking a bit more Yeah, yeah, so basically what we're gonna do is yeah you want to say something Hey Josh Josh You don't have to do that So is that okay from there Is that alright just speaking from here or should I be leaning in a bit more so better for me to be about here So just talking here like this So just so just taking it a bit of noise from there. Is that like is that good enough from there? Okay, yeah, so Okay, so escape you I in the browser so escape I open a few things open edx carcera even I looked in Yeah So it's Now we got time here here, so I'm gonna Stop Yeah, we will so hey, thanks John. Yeah, so you basically just go to the browser Open the new page, and you go back to here To presentation and do you present? Oh, yeah Yeah Yes, it's freaking I love it Oh Thanks everyone for coming in We're a team technocrat Present three of us so and we're gonna talk about Drupal and education basically gonna Go through what we're gonna cover today and today we're gonna call learning management systems and Basically gonna look at different types of learning management systems and variation of learning management systems Then we're gonna look at a actually existing learning management systems currently on the market and currently in wide use we're gonna look at the variation of learning management system called platforms and How do you them now? We're gonna look at the Drupal and how Drupal actually fits into learning management system market because at the moment There is no big system actually Drupal produced to Work with but at the same time there are a lot of projects happening around Drupal and learning management systems Okay, is that better? good then we're gonna look at something we've been doing internally called project Lantern and Then we're gonna look at the actually variations of what you can do is learning management system. So I'm gonna take us through Just the Single variation single vision of where you can actually take What approach can you take you actually? How you can change the learning management system? So as I said we are from technocrat Michelle was supposed to be doing talk, but she actually had some other commitments So she had to go so Amit our class clan services director Replaced her so thanks for doing that on a short notice pretty much was sitting there doing slides all day Josh and me we are senior developers in technocrat, but we're not gonna Give you boring speech about Any development stuff so it's more about actually education So learning management system what they are we actually perceive learning management system is very simple In fact the goal is quite Straightforward so it's usually represents some sort of educational institution. It's usually around the content of particular course or something very very similar and it usually Gives us this teacher-student relationship where students teacher creates the course students being assigned to the course student goes through Assessment of some sort and then teacher creates it in and student gets The results but if you look in more depth the learning management system actually much much bigger than that So rosters graders timesheets collaborations mail chat and Yeah, so just jumping in there. Hi Josh. I'm technocrat and Yeah, I guess with any LMS. There's always the question of whether You're trying to provide an end-to-end solution just something that can deal with enrollments and possibly even payments and You know setting people up to join courses and in the actual delivery of the courseware And the learning experience and then even the examination and the grading and the release of grades at the end And so the question there is whether a given LMS is you know aiming to do that entire process or maybe just the middle part of it Which is you know the actual delivery of courseware and discussion and stuff of thing like during the semester So if you look at learning management systems on the market at the moment they do work but they're very very complex if you connect all the notes together and Try to trace one thing to another. There's actually no simple learning Management system that they can actually quickly explain to a people and you actually have to not only Give people learning management system. I actually have to learn to use it. How many people actually using learning management systems? Few Which systems are you using? Like board like board learn. Yes. Anyone using Moodle, you know use Moodle Yep, few people there. So there are a few things anyone using Drupal as a learning management system. No That's fine Sorry To some extent good Yeah, we might have a conversation in the end what's are Exactly where this extent goes and yeah, how big or how small you want to see it as well So we're actually looking at learning management system and thinking what are the benefits are They're actually more for teachers or more for students. How does educational institution actually perceives the goal of learning management system? In terms of something like an educational startups or sites like linda.com Is it actually more for business to make money or is it more for users to actually teach them something? so actually can come from Different endpoints and the result might be very very different So we're actually talking about different systems and especially if it's your business, you don't want to have a this is a real life review so far current courses online So you definitely don't want to get something like that. So those might be quite extreme examples But I guess the point is that you have you know a really very large number of different stakeholders or different groups of stakeholders with Learning management systems and so then comes that much more of a challenge to keep all of those groups really, you know Happy and on board with the product. You might have something that looks and feels great for students They really enjoy jumping in there and sharing ideas and checking out their course where but that you know might be difficult for that university's IT department to sustain or that might be difficult for the You know the management of the university to be able to change or to apply strategy to that product So you can imagine there, you know different demands coming from very different directions for that so Existing management system and there are a lot of them on the market. We're gonna look at actually Certainly, you're gonna talk about banners as well. Yeah, so that's a late addition Sweet so yeah, basically the top two which is Moodle blackboard just gonna talk about banner and anyone using Google applications for education on person and We're gonna look at the custom See a message on what they are. Yeah, so I'm starting off with Moodle and my intention is actually to Give Moodle a good rap. I mean, it's an open source product Very well regarded very popular very widely used and a perfectly viable product So our intention is you know, certainly not to say You know, here's a whole bunch of reasons to use Drupal instead of Moodle or anything like that And in fact, maybe at that point just taking a step back and saying that you know The sort of intention of the talk is really to just make sure that you're aware of the existing current popular systems And then to open up a discussion about you know, how Drupal Might be really good might be, you know able to make a really good offering in that space as well and so yeah But looking at Moodle from that sort of positive point of view and actually worth mentioning that my colleague Dane has worked with Moodle, I think here overseas more Yeah, and had really good experiences with it And so he's like I'm contributed some of the background information about this and for myself I'm not a hundred percent familiar with the latest versions of Moodle and what they do But I'm just going to run through this with you for a bit of an overview. So yeah, it's also an open source product It's quite, you know, very current releases It's been around for a long time to written in PHP same as Drupal and yeah, there's the web URL there and then on the next slide You'll notice we've got actually a longer list of pros than cons So maybe we'll just open all of those up and it's considered an all-in-one Solution although I'm not sure how strong it is at those two sort of endpoints that I mentioned before So I don't know, you know if Moodle can really handle enrollments or complex integrations with other enrollment systems And not entirely sure how it handles like say release of examination results this type of thing But I know that it's really well regarded in that middle phase of you know handling students and courseware So it's considered, you know, very usually user friendly or my understanding is there are some sort of setup considerations there It's very education-focused But I'm guessing that you could say that about any LMS or it wouldn't qualify So yeah, but you know has a very large Community of users and a lot of our contributed modules So there are you know different ways that you can configure it and put those components together and then Yes, you know apparently responsive So I'm guessing that you know you'd expect to be able to use it on your phone and your tablet And you can imagine like I'm thousands of students, you know spending more time actually reading courseware on their phones and on their Desktops these days at least I would imagine that so yeah, and then a short list of cons apparently quite complex to set up But I'm not sure if anyone who's had experience with it here would sort of verify that but you know quite a sort of complex initial setup phase and You know built more for function than for form although maybe I'll just pass to you on that I'm not exactly sure what that means sure well basically as Actually pros that it's an education-based system and we're trying to say it's a more generic one So it looks at the education again from the perspective is One for everything kind of thing so we're talking about covering high schools or covering University covering, you know your standard flow where students come in this again stuff that we were talking about student-teacher relationship and course Content relationship in fact at the moment you probably can argue at some points of saying whereas there's variation of the courses And there is different type of setups you can do but at the same time is still pretty you still pretty sandbox to the user So I guess I'm not sure if it's a tangent on that or not But you can imagine say at a university if middle was being used for hundreds of courses in parallel And they all had a sort of an out-of-the-box Performance and a user experience say that you know the main screens and tabs that you might expect and the peripheral content that you might expect And that might be considered quite rigid and you know This is a combination of the product itself and the way it gets used and adapted and customized at a particular university But of course the question is Whether all of those courses end up looking and feeling exactly the same there might be some benefit to that the student can sort of move between them and Have this kind of you know similar experiences But then what about that one lecturer who you know once this list to be over on the left And once these two tabs to actually be on the same screen or this type of thing and so then yeah of course the question and the sort of investigation As you know developers or as managers of the product becomes how customizable it is at that point And so I'm not sure if any of you you know come in thinking about will how customizable Versatile or how rigid are these products, but that's one of the questions. Oh Yeah, we're mentioning banner here as well So I've only just found out about this but thought it was worth mentioning because that one is considered to be much more of an end type of product so that it can actually You know optionally rather than integrating with other university systems that might deal with enrollment administration and this type of thing It can actually perform those functions itself So blackboard Just to preface this I'm actually quite excited about sharing with you guys some ideas around so the traditional learning model and you know What's out there in the future? But to give us some sort of context looking at blackboard. I mean blackboards pretty much used by every second University in Australia possibly the world It's very much considered an enterprise grade LMS and it's actually really good at replicating the traditional learning model So the idea of having your standard curriculum Replicated in a web page being able to access your lectures your content Submit assignments and that sort of thing. It's actually very old described But there's no offense to an academic set of here But so very academic friendly in the sense that you know, it's actually a very simple way to actually get a course set up and transfer You know the traditional learning model online And you'll find this is an extremely popular platform extremely expensive too But I think a big part of success is ability to actually just really replicate the traditional Classroom in an online context Yeah, so I was exposed to blackboard at University of Melbourne and I saw both of those kind of observations Born out one is the guy You know with his legs sticking out from under the desk in a bundle of wires So I saw you know some of the complexity and it was more actually Administrative complexity around getting this massive system running across the university and all the tangles they got into But then you know, I've also seen like it really work and deliver course where the thousands of students said both of those perspectives If you Google for blackboards, you'll actually see that a lot of Australian universities are using that and The reason for it they've been very prominent on the market in the last especially in the last five years Where they actually changed their goal from being the LMS to actually the main goals now acquiring as much market as They can and they also went with the cloud solution back in 2011 and the last major versions You saw was released in back in 2010 after that. There was a lot of controversies about them There's some patent issues where they're actually trying to see people as well as this review from tech crunch basically saying that they will focus in more on Stuff like acquisition rather than delivering the end product So this is where we're talking about business side of model which benefits pretty much blackboards in the first place But then again, we're not trying to say very bad things about them in and they still deliver in a product that a lot of Universities are using and yeah, it was considering it if you actually or maybe you're already running And in fact come to think of it I've heard far worse things said about my source matrix as a Like as a CMS used at universities than what I've heard about blackboard uses an LMS and I'm but I guess They have also eventually delivered, you know stable content management systems into universities even if it's taken them a few goes to get it right and So then it needs to be said that you know the university is a very demanding environment to provide products into and that you know A lot of these providers, you know face challenges and needed to really you know provide iterations Over time to to really get it right and then when they do they can end up with a sort of a big happy marketplace No, I guess the other thing I would add is You know, this is a reason the technical audience you can almost think of the analogy of blackboard to other learning management Systems being the analogy of Java, which is an enterprise grade, you know language relative to sort of hip stuff like no JS and so because it is Stable doesn't change much. I think the last update was a few years ago to the actual core platform You can sort of see it sort of appeal to the the more stable Sort of enterprise type audience and it will probably contrast a little similar alternative models Yeah Google apps for education we quickly gonna touch on them So there is if your educational institution you can go and sign up with Google and Google gonna provide you very simple Again, very basic down to earth the student teacher relationship where Google users can go and sign up for a particular course To a teacher or educational institution and the teacher using the leverage in the Google applications like Google sites Google Drive and based on the technologies. They also have quizzes They're gonna provide you a simple course which pretty much I'm not sure if it's free or not for educational institution. I know there was a free trial, but at the moment, I'm not sure if it's free for educational institution So have a go on them. There are a few good videos online Check them out if you're actually looking for something very simple down to earth But at the same time you just want to good tools to present a simple course Yep, this is the the homepage and some of the big universities actually start using that as well So and the next thing we're gonna talk about is the LMS platforms So LMS platforms is a new kind of beast. They only been on the market for about I don't know three four years on a large scale before there were sites that were doing video courses and standard courses online here and there but Basically a couple of years ago 2012 I think EDX was one of the first platforms that basically said, okay we're gonna do this open model where we're gonna contact universities around the world and And we're gonna offer them To give the courses for free The idea was it's a gonna provide the free education for the countries who actually unable to pay or don't have any means apart from the internet to learn and Or actually give some universities a promotion So someone's doing course. They like it. They They can go on to uni or do their online education and pay for it further on in fact Berkeley was accepting as Accredited if you pass it on EDX. They were accepting it as a credit for one or two subjects So there was a promotion where you do the course for free You get into and if you get into Berkeley you can actually get accredited for the particular subject So we're gonna go quickly through them and show you around because we're gonna reference those elements platform later on We're gonna talk about project lantern So edx anyone use those systems and you did the courses So I'll quickly jump into edx. It has a list of schools and courses on top. You can basically go and search for them and Okay, and here's your basic kind of program You can see your progress. You can go and see syllabus do the quizzes for particular week There are different sorts of assignment depending on Which subject you're taking if you're taking a program in assignment There might be different ways to actually submit your assignments at the moment on the other side Which we're gonna reference a bit later. I'm doing history for one stones something for fun as well Which yeah for this bunch of courses and if you go to edx and just browse through the courses There are lots and lots of them there and couple of Australian universities are represented there as well The problem with edx was because I was talking with one of the universities. They said it's very sandbox. So Some universities wanted to go a bit further and do interactive assignments or interactive teaching and the platform wasn't delivering I think it's open source. I didn't double check that But I think the actual edx platform is open source on it based on Django, which is a python based open source CMS So and now it's very similar to Edx just go check them out. It's free to sign up and do some of the courses So of course Sarah One of my favorite platform based LMS is right now I'm actually doing a really exciting course on machine learning and I'll show you guys just very briefly around how this platform looks and what makes it slightly different to some of the other stuff that's out there I was just signing in you think I know by now. Okay, I might just sign out So The way the way of course Sarah works is that you it's actually run by Stanford Stanford University and you Can sign up for courses for free and again similar to edx if you actually get a certain grade You are awarded official Stanford credit, which is pretty cool One of the things I like about this particular platform is that it actually Has sort of hooks in it actually. Oh, there you go almost I have to say armored to powerhouse full-time PM at technocrat and then learning in his own time on several of these courses and constantly coming up with ideas Don't know you do it. Hey, so so yeah Let's just take one of these videos for example by Andrew Well, this machine learning the CTO of Beidou and one of the really cool things about this tool is that when you actually watching the video for example And a lot is very much video-based content Quite often when you're watching these things no matter how exciting that you often fall asleep after a few minutes Or you sort of doze off What I like about this is That's how you do it when it's 11 p.m. At night and I'm trying to struggle through one of these sort of Courses, you know, you often sort of notice that the the sound sort of disappears It's like what's going on and actually asks you a question And so the idea is actually pauses throughout the course and so it actually prompts you and ensures that how you're You're you're you're you're you're in tune with what's worth with what's going on You actually get graded for So for the answers that you provide so for example, you know Asks you a question I can actually mark an answer and actually mark, you know Installing this grading system and sort of give me a report at the end of the course So that does two things it means that actually keeps me engaged with the course as well as actually it's just a form of learning So it's a form of reinforced learning The other thing about Coursera obviously does the usual stuff. So there's regular exercises that you submit Sort of regular intervals and sort of you know, you have deadlines you need to work towards This sort of reminds me of Myrtle you can see I'm actually falling behind In my courses there, although I think I have Couple of them, but nonetheless, it's actually quite interactive. What's a feature it's actually quite engaging for For students Yeah If you want to submit assignments on behalf you can just go there and do that for me Yeah, that's that's course area in a nutshell So just jumping in and I haven't actually seen those screens before but that looks like the kind of thing that I would be Expecting to find if I am you know enrolled in one of those courses where there's you know a whole range of activities going on And you're being encouraged and you know, but at the same time tested and you know This type of thing and you're seeing your results accumulate on a on some type of a dashboard and this type of thing So that and I think you know naturally all LMS is you know aiming for for those kind of Engagements and for that those kind of attractive screens that we just saw them And the second tool I wanted to briefly gloss over was actually itchians you Again, so I actually have a commerce background and you know what my focus has been all has always been operation and strategy But actually ran into this thing a few months ago Where I think Stanford as well they they published some of their courses on itchians you and itchians use very much a video-based Delivery method you'll notice a common theme like video And I actually did a full course. I think it's called financial markets by Robert something How embarrassing But you know it's a lot simpler compared to course error So you don't actually get interactive assignments. You don't get sort of I guess, you know You know you do get a syllabus, but you don't get sort of the same amount of course content as you would say something like course error But again, it's almost like sort of podcast on steroids Really cool and it's got a sort of niche niche market And so our University of Melbourne using itchians you as well And in fact it was like rolled out quite strategically to just certain universities There's some sort of competition to get into that space at the beginning at least and what I would say about that is that you know Well, obviously universities want to be Putting their name and their brand into all the right places and that includes getting online in all of these You know some new dynamic kind of ways and learning to share their course content, you know more widely I think the ones we're about to move on to yeah So there's Khan Academy is a good example, so I guess there's a spectrum of these learning experiences starting with Enrolling paying and enrolling in the university and entering a private course where you need to log in securely through your own student ID And only you are allowed to interact with that course where and then right up at the other end of the spectrum There's you know this completely open web-based course where it's free anyone can engage with it And in fact we're saying that that can then you know contribute back towards your degree Easy for the universities to you know, accredit people that way and kind of good for everyone when you think about it so Yeah along that spectrum like I was saying somewhere in the middle you've got universities of traditionally being you know privately delivering their course where that are learning to share and These are the people they're learning from is you know Khan and you know in fact like YouTube can be considered a learning management system if you want to think about it that way and There was another one after that some open universities It also be like our university for the third age I think it's called which is for like an adult and ongoing education So yeah bunch of examples We're gonna cover a bit about the custom elements So when something you actually want to build the LMS from scratch or using Drupal or some some other system So it comes with a premium price and the reason comes with the premium price You hope because you have to plan it and then you have to implement So the best thing about it you can have additional features or features that are not implemented yet So if you think about some interesting like I'm gonna tell you later on You can actually build that Again, the problem is it's time-consuming if you go with a particular sort of development might not result where you actually Heading to so a lot of things to consider but basically with a good plan I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of custom CMSs that are actually operational and So actually moving on to Drupal there are two basic solutions with Drupal, oh, I mean majority of I'm sure there are other variations as well But basically you see the Drupal installations as a Drupal as an extension and Drupal is a complete learning management solution So Drupal as an extension usually come as a integration between two systems. Usually it's a Moodle and so Moodle acts at the learning management system and then people who actually Don't have enough features in extensions of Moodle Usually ask Drupal to come along and integrate Provide the same authentication and extend on functionality of current system There are quite a few and did anyone go to the talk yesterday about Moodle installation with Drupal? No No one Okay, so there was actually a talk so I missed it But I'm gonna wait for a recording definitely looking forward to check it out And again Drupal is useful additional functionality so something that current learning management system don't provide So pros of that approach there are targeted goals Which usually makes you more focused and makes developer more focused because the it's already covered by Moodle as such or other learning management system the separation of duties So which again kind of makes it less pressure on the developer to deliver the complete system because part of the functionality is already there But I think there are more cons to that approach so custom development Even just the integration it means you have to support two or more systems So basically just raise the price of the whole product and you might need actually multiple specialist one who is actually doing Delivery of Moodle one who's doing delivery of Drupal and maybe another one who actually That's the integration as well as authentication We have multiple authentication solution for that actually can work with a number of system But then again, it's a matter of paying money and actually giving authentication across multiple system and testing that and Also gonna look as Drupal as learning management system. Did anyone use ELMS before? started in Drupal six and Did anyone use ever knows what uber cart is and commercials like big Commerce to big Drupal commerce project so basically your web shops and uber cart came before commerce actually built by the same guys in core and uber cart was this massive monster approach same with ELMS in version six so everything in one and Of course it leads to some you know Pros and cons the best thing about the ELMS. It was actually build In Pennsylvania State University and still is there is a awesome talk about version 7 in from Drupal con Austin the link's gonna be in the end of the talk check them out if you're interested in what can be like To actually run the system, but anyway back in version 6 it was one solution for everything. It was a good start Again, as I said, it's very similar to uber cart So one system that covers it all and then you get small bells and whistles a top of it So I won't try them to do many things at once. What happens? something like that If you're trying to eat spaghetti in the washing machine Is that your animation for ELMS in particular? No, it's just doing multiple things Okay, but just I didn't say LMS for that But okay It's just something to wake people up. Just give a couple more And you know everyone got it It does actually remind me of my university days in a strange way But but not while I was logged into an LMS, but at other times Anyway, then came version 7 the guys decided to actually Take a different approach again very similar to commerce and actually separate it And there are a bunch of modules and installation profiles for ELMS version 7 in fact, they call it LMS learning network It's available now and there are a bunch of they have their own website. They have their own blog and github repo as well as they have a couple of system Separation so there is a course information system there is massively open online course and there are a bunch of them you can find the links and If you're interested in just check out these guys talk because he also talks about how to install it what they did for us indication and all that And another one open go Well up in go So that's one that I've only just become aware of it's a product out of India It uses, you know Drupal coin contributed modules Including organic groups and provides like a you know fairly comprehensive You know Drupal based LMS It looks very simple and neat, but what I heard is you actually have some sort of More internal module system, so it doesn't rely it uses one module and thinking One module called a pingo But inside you can kind of have a like a like a web store with three additions you can check in so they didn't use the standard Module for Drupal to actually build their own system, which is good about it just different alternative approach So a pingo project is the actual module. I think it at LMS. It's the it's like commerce kickstart. It's the Basic distribution so if you want to start it probably still a pingo LMS as a distribution And it uses also a lot of other contributed modules like organic groups quizzes rules and views So this is actually comes if you want to build stuff with if you want to build stuff with Already existing solution, but you can create one yourself and George gonna cover a couple of modules that actually You can use to create Yeah, so I mean, you know back in the D7 days, which is now I guess if you were Planning to build a Comprehensive LMS there'd be you know naturally a whole bunch of ways you could go about that and I guess we're thinking about this in quite sort of Theoretical terms, it's not something that we're about to do this weekend But something that you know, it's really interesting to talk about because you know as a at least as a mental experiment It puts D7 to the test and allows you to match up a whole bunch of things that you know Drupal 7 can do to those demands that we've got in mind and we've already seen how they're met by other systems So then I'm just glossing over some of the modules that would come to mind for that Well naturally you're gonna need to handle users as user accounts people being able to log in and then be given roles and permissions Well, then there would be a question of whether you would use organic groups or not to do that You know at least for people being able to find their groups of content and and groups of people to interact with And then whether you would use something like workbench or not which is more for you know permissioning people to you know engage with Different types of content or different silos of content on the site So there's you know open questions and you might find for say, you know a really comprehensive elements that you'd need to Rebuild workbench from scratch but to do it your way to you know meet a very specific set of needs and you know to sort of Reinvent what some of those modules do and so then Of course you need to think about those things from the point of view of these different roles the students teachers Administrators and the actual developers on the product we're all going to be interacting with that admin UI in different ways and that's what makes say an LMS a really interesting architectural challenge because You know you would assume that in these structured environments that you're going to want some more kind of rigidity around the admin UI But all of these different groups are going to have very different experiences of the admin UI So a student is going to have a very different experience of you know interacting with the LMS Then say the administrator who's responsible for setting up the new courses and deploying them and this type of thing So then trying to move on really quickly Then you know there are some great modules out there that are sort of for learning so quiz and course and achievements are good examples and then You sort of mentioned the user and course workflow, but I mean in technical terms We start to think about entities which are like items of content and the relationship between entities in the site I'm really wanting to sort of gloss over this So then yeah, in fact, I think we can skip ahead at that point We don't need to sort of dig right down into those modules. You can check out the slides online We gonna go through project lantern, which is experiment that we integrate doing it's basically a Drupal 8 LMS So we started early and decided to follow kind of commerce guys footsteps, and that was made major inspiration for the actual project so We started doing the custom LMS using the Drupal and I can I jump in at that point and just go back one slide Sorry, I'm starting to enjoy this So I just think I'll get jump in and and say something. Okay, so I can keep it super brief Yeah, okay So I'm just wanted to say that as developers we spend most of our time obviously just Solving very well-defined problems for existing clients and that only there's a little bit of time to you know Think about you know understanding or defining these problems in the first place before we go ahead and solve them And then there's only a very little bit of time left to you know Do anything that's kind of blue sky-ish and that would be contributing back to Drupal 8 or to other contrived modules And then when we're not doing that then you know thinking about this problem solving and matching Drupal to different Sort of problems and requirements in these more abstract ways Just kind of the origin of these projects or at least my Again, we approach the first we approach it differently. We approach it as something like Moodle We want to recreate Moodle, but we're gonna quickly go through the actual objectives of what we're trying to do But currently the focus changer we're trying to deliver first of all something like LMS platform Something people can reuse and use for their business and again inspiration was a Drupal commerce So our mission is to provide the solution that is alternative So it's no way in competition to Moodle or other platform So actually try to give people something to try on some different accessible Responsive and that we really want to engage the community into the project is gonna be Delivery is gonna be a suit of tools. So you expect your Drupal modules We expect your distributions, but also expect a lot of documentations Our philosophy is the open source for education down developers up, which is very unusual for Drupal project Usually it's reverse. It's Always focused on the developers and not in the community. We're actually already engaging with a few Academies and few educational institution in Australia to try to deliver that again our audience In the order of priorities educational community that users who are limited by Kaila LMS is one of here from them And then you drew for users and also developers Again, it's alternative not a competition education driven and the outcomes gonna be a configurations distributions modules and I'm not gonna go through a structure. You can see the slides online. I'm gonna give One of the examples is it I'm it wanted to talk to so we got five minutes left. So it's gonna be the actual I'm gonna give the word to Amit because his example is what he actually will try to build using something like as well like our LMS Thanks. Thanks for so just very quickly What I like to do is actually challenge some of the assumptions and ideas that we have about LMS's You know, we took a look at some of these, you know, quite amazing platform. So moodle backboard. I choose you We had a browse around and my question to you are these just simply glorified content management systems That are really good at integrating with external systems that are out there And the reason why I asked that is because no matter what current LMS you look at, you know, they're effectively Divided vertically and horizontally and when it's a horizontally, I'm talking about sort of groups of classrooms So whether you're a great prep one to your first year uni second year uni third year uni or vertically across Domains of knowledge. So maths physics Accounting whatever the subject may be and my question to you is can we break through these silos? And so there are two types of silos. They're the horizontal silos and You know a way to sort of motivate this discussion is to ask the question. Whoever he's used is on a stack overflow All right, a lot of people will quarrel Not as many. Okay. Well, we you're on a stack overflow Are you segregated by how many years of development experience that you have? So for example, is there a forum for people that are first years second years third years? No In fact, you have all these people sharing experiences Across various levels of experience. So my question to you is what if we conceived of an LMS where people can actually exchange Information actually teach each other rather than actually just relying on the classic online tutor who stays up to 2am answering people's questions And so the classic online tutor that we see across LMS is rather than being there So just you know, it's a one-way information exchange. They're facilitating the process rather than actually sort of you know Yeah, just just just just being responsible for the entire educational process And this stems from something called instructional leadership where the idea is to actually distribute responsibility for learning and teaching across Multiple stakeholders not just the teacher. It's a really cool idea that gets a lot of traction at universities And so then you see first year is going to third year classes and you see, you know students sharing Learning experiences in new ways, but then the job of the developer at that point is to say well Yeah, you can separate say courseware from courses and have you know, essentially like a Huge singular canon of all of the courseware and then be able to have courses, you know Use you know subsets of that and in quite sort of you know overlapping in dynamic way Absolutely, that actually that actually really nice to segues into the second Idea that I like to put out there, which is breaking the vertical silos So we know that in schools that this aspiration to actually integrate Knowledge areas so for example when you're learning maths you're often sort of learning You know when you teach a little kid about sort of add additional subtraction You're actually couching in a real-life examples What if we actually thought of LMS is as containing knowledge integration points just as the way we actually think about software It's sort of being able to effectively integrate with other Software and pieces and tools are out there and so somehow allowing you know If you think about things like mech electronics biomechanics environment engineering These are effectively different disciplines coming together and actually creating new domains of knowledge What if we have to create a platform that actually allowed this sort of things sort of you know Come up organically so in other words, you know, we create a platform that actually allowed sort of you know Teachers and educators to expose bits of knowledge that allowed sort of another Educator to say hey, that's interesting and I can potentially fit into my topic and allow for that cross-pollination Now that's hard. That's actually really hard because currently our educators, you know They have it's they're operating in a certain paradigm and to actually get them to sort of think outside of their sort of myopic or so their channel of Expertise requires actually rethink KPIs for example, and that's not something that's actually easy to do The other thing also is different educational settings require different Integration methods so at a university that might be driven by bringing sort of industry expertise into the classroom and actually facilitating the cross-pollination So for example, I'm actually a marketer But I'm actually quite interested in learning about finance and so having someone from industry come in actually facilitate the cross-pollination Is useful in that setting whereas at a at a primary school or at a high school that can actually happen quite differently That could be as simple as just getting the size coordinate and the math score that it sit down together I should figure out a way to facilitate the cross-pollination But that are we already know that that's just an ideal that sort of academics and sort of you know teachers sort of work towards But how can we actually create a learning management platform that really facilitates that intrinsically and so they have it, you know As always I'm gobsmacked after just hearing from you know 30 seconds from from Ahmed and that that incredible set of possibilities And I'm really you know exciting set of possibilities then Can be matched to systems that can deliver those experiences and I guess the whole point of the talk today was to say that you know It's entirely possible in fact quite likely that Drupal 8 will be the coolest way and most feasible way ever to you know Deliver those experiences and those systems and so I guess this is really just meant to be a sort of demonstration of like you know great sets of possibilities and you know and matching those up to you know What is a new product that we are discovering and coming to grips with and starting to match up to requirements? Yeah, and I guess the final and I would like to expand on this a bit more But the final idea that I should like to put out there and we don't have time to go into this in too much detail It's of contrast the current LMS landscape with With a complete alternative model So you know if you look at this this is tables and rows and you know for the geeks that are here What does that make you think of the relational database right and so what I'm putting out There's a notion of contrasting almost was currently sort of an RDBM RDBMS type LMS something It's much more graph-based and so the idea is that graph-based Sort of technologies or something that's underpinned by some sort of graph Algorithm we're actually a lot for better sort of interless ships across topics domains people and actually learn it themselves And and you know I do look to a lot of these You know quarry for example is amazing at doing this Really sort of driving the interconnection across Domains of knowledge and uses to facilitate much richer learning experiences Well, yeah, as you can see we get lots to talk about but again the thing is we started building LMS In fact, I already did few commits today to the first modules in the system. There's also experimental GitHub repository, so if you're interested in playing that just hit me up otherwise just follow this LMS the the links in the end of The presentation so here's a github for the whole project and yeah, thanks for listening and let us know if you have any questions