 Why don't we introduce ourselves, starting with Dmitri? Does it work? Is it on? All right. I'm Dmitri, working at Pivotal for a few years, and I'm currently a product manager for Bosch. Woo! Yeah. My name is Stormry Peters, and I just recently switched to leading developer relations at the Cloud Foundry Foundation. So all of you probably, if you're on CFDouglas, I'm going to do a survey. From me, please fill it out. That's my pitch. Hello. My name is Yan. I work at SAP with the OpenStack CPI, currently replacing my PM, because he's gone. Hi, Jeff Hobbs. I'm the director of engineering for Cloud Foundry efforts at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and I was the CTO at ActiveState, responsible for staccato that Hewlett Packard and Hi, I'm Dr. Nick. And someone took my seat. So I'm going to stand here. We're just a little awkward. No. Not that seat. Like that seat. You set my seat. Thank you very much to the four of you coming along for our day. And I want to just to warm up and somewhat to introduce their role and their perspective to the character. Flashes out, especially as we get to Jeff. You know, I wouldn't have agreed to this panel if I'd watched you MC first. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. Question for Dimitri. And I have to ask Dimitri a question that has no context to anything we've talked about today since he was outside the entire time. So, Dimitri, in five years' time, describe what Bosch is like. Faster. Probably, probably everywhere. So far at least it's been going well with the customers. I'm probably supporting, you know, some of the features that you all want, you know. No monitor. More importantly. No monitor. That pretty much covers it. No monitor. So will we upgrade the version of monitor between now and then? That will be in Bosch 2.0. 2.0. Don't start me on that shit. All right. Jeff, on the other end of the spectrum, why doesn't HP use Bosch? And you can tell the short story of why. I'm the anti-Bosch. I've been in the Cloud Foundry community since VMware open sourced in 2011. We did play with the initial Bosch release when it was open sourced in 2012. So it's a bit of a philosophical perspective. We believe in Cloud Foundry, the workload. Awesome workload automation and other features. But we just want that to be a product in customer hands. We don't want to need an army of consultants who have made some great businesses, doing a good job, beating Bosch into shape. But, you know, we were a product company. We are still a product company in HPE. And our focus is Cloud Foundry. Not how do you get there, but I just want Cloud Foundry up working for my developers. And I want it up this week, not in the two weeks it's going to take for you to get the manifests and everything working in our network. So that's the approach we've taken. You know, VM-based currently for those who saw... I have a question later on. Container-based is what we're working on. Some people may have seen it represented earlier. That's been open-sourced. And our focus is basically that Cloud Foundry is the product, not Bosch. And, you know, it's not an animosity towards Bosch as a product, but it's just too much complexity for when you're just trying to deliver Cloud Foundry as a workload to the customer. Excellent. Thank you very much. And Stormy, I have to be honest, Colin put you on that seat so I could ask you this specific question. I just forgot I have to go do something. Right. This is the specific question Colin gave me to ask you. Stormy, why isn't everyone using Bosch? I don't know. Why aren't they? I'll put that in context. You are the developer evangelist and advocate for Cloud Foundry and all of Bosch. I'll restate the question. Why isn't everyone using Bosch? I believe everyone will be using Bosch, and I think it will take everybody in this room and many others outside of this room to make that happen. And when I think about it from a building community perspective, I think there's two ways we have to build the community. One, we have to make this community the community of hardcore users and developers and contributors to stronger. So we need more technical talks, more people in the forums, more people becoming friends with each other, building this community. And then we need to reach more users. And to do that, we need each of you to go out and speak about Bosch. So you need to go to places where people aren't already Bosch fans and speak about it. Whether it's your local Meetup, it can be the API Meetup or the PAS Meetup, whether it's a conference, a technical conference that's not a Cloud Foundry conference or not a Bosch conference. We need everybody in the room. If each one of you gave one talk a year and convinced one person to move to Bosch, we would have the pyramid network thing. So like at Next ChefConf, you put in a talk about Chef Plus or something like that and when you arrive, you give a talk on Bosch. That's what you're saying, isn't it? Yeah, you should also want... Any other ideas? No. So you can be a little sneaky. I heard that nobody ever reads abstracts except the people picking the talks. So as long as your title is reflective, your audience won't be disappointed. All right, so you lie about the topic and the speaker. Yeah. All right, gotcha. Advanced ideas, I appreciate them. Jan, so the summit story has been about multi-clad OpenStack CPI product manager. Is Bosch and Cloud Foundry actually multi-clad yet? Or where are we at with that? Sure. We have actually a deployment on AWS and on OpenStack, so we are using it multi-clad. And can you give us a summary of where the other CPIs are at? Do you know? Or Dimitri can just fill in. I mean, it's now a panel. Sure, I can fill in. Well, vSphere, one of the oldest CPIs. Actually, probably before Pivotal moved over to AWS, we've been using vSphere for some production Cloud Foundry. AWS, that's where PW is running. Great place to run. We now have Azure that's recently been published as a supported CPI. I believe a few of our customers are already running on Azure. GCP is coming up. Google has been working at it based on Fergie's work. And that's also going to be coming up probably within a month. We'll be adding it to Bosch IO. Then, of course, we have OpenStack. So OpenStack has been one of the first and somewhat struggling, but favorite CPIs, given that we have to work with SAP guys, and that's been always fun. Thank you, Dimitri. Oh, my bad, my bad. Oh, geez. That is the single software. From IBM, they've been actually hard at work at it. I believe they're going to be publishing or actually already published the CPI to Bosch IO. StemSol is coming up soon. Yeah, that's, I guess, that's the official list today. Did you say Photon? Oh, man. Photon, another platform from VMware, very similar to vSphere, but has its own advantages. That's also coming up soon. Pending emails they have to read. Okay, Bare Metal, Rack HD. That's another CPI. EMC worked on it. So, you know, we wanted to support something more outside of a usual range of IaaSes. So Rack HD is a software that allows you to provision Bare Metal machines. So that also works. Actually, surprisingly with OpenStack, StemSol currently. I think that's it. Anyone else making one? Well, we're on the list. So I know you actually sound like it's a laboriously long list. A year ago, we were struggling to maintain the three we had and you started the external CPI work and that's all ballpark. How's that, you know, is it? Yeah, I think that paid off. We have, you know, Azure and Google and SoftLayer, Rack HD CPIs. I don't think that would be pretty much impossible to, you know, make them, you know, be inside Bosch. So externalizing it paid out, I think a pretty good dividend. So yeah. All right, question for everyone. We'll start with Jeff because he has an answer. We took Bosch away from everyone. 2016. How would you deploy Cloud Foundry? You pick up staccato and go. So I missed your interest. So you said you open sourced what you guys have been using for the last Yeah, I was presented. It's actually the next generation stuff that we open sourced. And it's, so the current generation is a VM deployment. So you have like the stem cell, everything's on it, right? You got all your Cloud Foundry. You make a hundred of them. It's not master slave. It's hive mind and you go. That's it. It's VMs. And, you know, honestly, going into a customer, they already all have their own ways in working with virtual machines. And you simplify that shim layer of what they need to deal with, whether it is going to be Chef, Ansible, Puppet, CSA, you know, people work with it in all sorts of different ways. All of the Cloud Foundry, essentially we're taking all of the Bosch stuff and distilling it to those few variables you need. And I think the reasons for why we've taken that approach and the work that we've done was Matt represented perfectly well. It's an insane amount of complexity that you really don't want to put in front of a customer. And for a consumer of what they want for Cloud Foundry, you can distill most of the Bosch stuff into a few config variables. So why is that not the way that most people pick it up? And, you know, looking forward, which was what was open sourced, Cloud Foundry, as a workload orchestration, fits perfectly well into just a series of containers. And there are a lot of great container orchestration frameworks which have come up. And, you know, maybe Bosch will be more ubiquitous in a few years. I love the vision of Bosch 2.0, but it's not all there yet. And, again... Hey, we're at Bosch 1.3120, whatever it was. Yeah, I'm waiting for the 6180. So, you know, what you would then have is pretty much the future vision that was presented by Matt is actually how we're already using Cloud Foundry as a workload, is that one step deploy in a few configurations. Do you think your open sourced does it work? Yes. There was a great video of that at the booth of it showing running over a week as people were... I was nervous to approach the HP booth for numerous reasons. Jan, take Bosch away. How are you deploying Cloud Foundry? Well, the short answer is you can't. I have recent versions of the master and developer branch on my machine and know how to build and maintain it. But the somewhat longer answer is that we would have to come up with something else. I don't know what. We've no interest in doing that. Well, this is the conversation. I mean, they want to know. What? If you had to run Cloud Foundry tomorrow, all the Cloud Controller repos, all the raw Diego repos and everything... And no Bosch. And no Bosch. Yeah, probably we would come up with something, right? Like... We probably would. We're building Bosch or looking at containers. Maybe that is an approach if you don't have Bosch. But I mean, we use Bosch. It's kind of the canonical tool to deploy Cloud Foundry. It's gone. There's no reason to use it. It's gone. It's gone. Just like that. Okay. We have a problem. It's open source. Because you're working for Jeff now and it's gone. I should be clear. We actually do use the Bosch manifest, the Bosch releases. We use those artifacts. All right. So you take those and you put the pipeline. So that they sort of disappear from the customer perspective. Cool. So my first response is the same thing. It's open source. So you can't take it away from me. Denial. It's gone. And it cannot steal my open source Bosch from me. But my first computer science professor in college told me that everything is better the second time it's written. So if you took Bosch away from me, I would hold a Bosch technical day. I would invite all of you and we would rewrite Bosch, which would be a little scary, but we could do it. What version would it have? Dude, do we get to start with Bosch Tio? You got to start again from scratch. You had to deploy Cloud Foundry. What do you build? Well, I didn't start it, right? Can't take the credit. I took it away from you. What do you do tomorrow? How would you build? Okay. I mean, take this conversation. I don't know. Maybe go to Hawaii, relax a bit. Worst panel people ever. Worst questions? I'd really like everyone to consider that great Bosch is there. You can use it. It's very difficult. They're trying to make it better. But if you were to look at the system, if your end goal is just Cloud Foundry, why recreate a lot of the... It's not necessarily Bosch. You have to have a definition of your system somehow. But there is then Bosch, the actual tool deployment, keeping things up and running, self-healing. And to be honest, there are some great other tools that have... Even though they are newer, at least in name, newer than Bosch, you know, Kubernetes. Great place to place Cloud Foundry. Mezos, also another good one, has a lot of the features that if you've containerized Cloud Foundry... Would you use the Kubernetes Bosch release to bring up Kubernetes? Or how would you...? Yeah, so it always goes back to, you know, the circle, right, how you install Kubernetes, how you install Mezos, how do you update it, how do you patch it the second day, how do you manage the rest of the stuff? Starts with RVM, install Ruby, and then some tool. Sorry. Is this for Jeff? Sorry. Can someone say Maria's question louder? Jeff. So, there is DayZero bootstrapping that we do, and that depends on your infrastructure. So, yes, there is still a shim layer there, but it is relatively trivial compared to the runtime and the upgrades. Again, it's containers. We use Docker. We use Docker images, Docker layers, and that kind of stuff. So, we obviate some of the other more difficult parts by using some of the existing other open-source projects. Got you. Hey, Dimitri, so in the five-year future idea, can you imagine that the individual did the processes, jobs, the bits inside of VM being containerized? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, replacement of Monit, for example, now that all distributions, including Ubuntu, have SystemD, it's probably the next job supervisor that the agent is going to be using is SystemD. Sorry, who's the one person room that likes SystemD? So, yeah, that's most likely going to be the next, you know, replacement of Monit, right? And so, with that, I guess, you get some of the other features. And including that, you know, you can containerize your workloads. You know, and, you know, Bosch is fairly generic, right? There's all the substructions about storage networking volumes. I don't have a, you know, public repo at this point, but I've written a Docker CPI, for example, that you just use Bosch to deploy anything that Bosch can deploy to Docker containers. Is that CPI public? It's not right now, but, you know, good open-source, I guess. There are two versions of Dimitri's GitHub repo. There's the public one, and then there's the incremental things where he shares them with you. Right, so... SSH one, and I looked at the other guy. It's still private. So, yeah, separate subscription list paid. Try a little extra cash on the side from Pivotal. Have to get to Hawaii somehow. Is there a question for the panel from the audience? Maybe, I don't know. No, I don't think any of our customers is going to be paying for that. You need a Bosch build pack with Monit inside it so it can run jobs, and I can't see how that couldn't work. Actually, didn't one of the... We haven't done that, so that's awesome. Ruben did something like that. He was running, that's right, he was running Cloud Foundry. He was running Bosch on Cloud Foundry, wasn't he? That's right, for his dozer. Hey. How much time we got? One minute. I'll ask my final question then. And we'll start with Mr. Negative. At your next job, would you use or advocate for the use of Bosch? I would review it again as we do every couple of years. I like what I see in the 2.0 in the future, but I want to see it actually hard-code in my hands. That would be by changing the version number? There's a little more to go to get to the level of simplicity that's being promised. Jan? If it's about distributed system provisioning, yes. I don't mean for running toasters or anything, but yeah, in the same sort of... For running your systems in a... Yeah, sure, I would. Stormy? I would, and the reason is all the people that are sitting in the room and all the people that are behind Bosch, like when there's a community behind something, something really there, not just support and people willing to take it on, but you believe in it and there's reasons. If it makes sense, I mean, yeah. Everyone please put your hands together for the panel.