 Welcome back to Exotic Wine Travel. I am your host, Matthew Horkey. We're in the beautiful Duro Valley with a special guest. Some guy, I don't know if I can call him a friend or not. An acquaintance, an alleged expert. We're here with the author of Amber Revolution, How the World Learned to Hate Orange Wine. Is that the right title? More or less. Simon Wolf. Welcome. More or less. The show. Thank you. Thank you. First, I have to ask you a question. Why are you so interested in that terrible gunk that we call orange wine? Someone has to be. Why do you feel like someone needed to write a book about this? Well, I think mainly because people are confused and I'm a nice guy and I want to help you. I really do. I want to help people be less confused and so that's why I decided to write a book about orange wine. But didn't you make people more confused when that book was actually published? I don't think so. So what area of the world do you feel like is the most exciting for you, for orange wine actually? Well, I mean, I do keep coming back to the north of Italy and Slovenia, that beautiful little corner around the Adriatic because that's the spiritual home of orange wine if you don't count Georgia, which is also very much my second love in wine, I think. If there's any Georgians watching, I didn't say. I'm licking that up, I'm licking it up, tagging wine the association of Georgia, Simon hates Georgian wine. No, I love everyone. I want to get into a serious question. We have some people on this trip, we're with a lot of people actually tasting a lot of port and dural wines, have no idea about what orange wine is. How would you explain orange wine to somebody that has no idea? So very simply, and this is why I wrote the book really, because my message is always that orange wine is quite simple. It's just wine made from white grapes fermented with the skins. So there's nothing that revolutionary about it. It's just simply, it's that 25 percent of the possibilities that the world just forgot about for about 60 years. And now it's back on the menu, which is fantastic because it means we can all have some great tonne things to taste like this. Bad boy, we just opened this Dario Prince, Bianco Tribeige last night. Thanks for bringing this. This is wonderful. Now, what about a serious question? Some people actually, when they taste a lot of orange wines, they say I've tasted orange wine. It was terrible. How would you approach somebody like that? Or what would you say to them? Well, usually I try to find out what it is that people are having a problem with, because I think, first of all, everyone gets very confused about the whole orange wine, natural wine thing. And people say, OK, all orange wines are natural wines. They're overlapping spheres. But orange wine is a technique, natural wine is a philosophy. So I think sometimes people have had really funky, crazy, out there, natural wines. And that's what pops into their head when we start talking about orange. And the orange wines span the whole gamut. You know, there are crazy, funky, weird examples. And there are beautiful, elegant, delicate examples. And everything in between them. And that's the thing. It's a broad church. And that's what I love about it. And just so people know, I've got evidence of him drinking something other than orange, natural. I think I got some clips of you blasted, drinking some 15 degrees, 15 degrees dry, durable wine. So so just it has been it has been known to happen. But you're going to wait at this bit out, right? No, I'm not. It's going to stay on. I'm going to put it right up there on the screen. And I'm going to highlight your red face, I think. So let's talk about Portugal. We're here in Portugal. It's another love, another country that you love. Why do you love Portuguese wines? I love them, too. I think and I know more about them than this guy. I don't even know why he calls himself an expert. So you know something about wine? I try once in a while. Yeah, let's let's talk that would be useful. I could I'd like to know more. I know that it's fermented cranberry juice. Is that right? I think that's the American version. Oh, Simon got. Simon was making fun of me because he saw my score for the Apothic Red 2016 99 points. Yeah, I know you like a lot of sugar in your wine. No, in general, no, seriously, why is Portugal so exciting for you? I think it's just one word above all, it's diversity. I mean, Portugal has such an amazing spread of terroirs, of wine regions, of great varieties, of wine styles. And a lot of it's under the radar, you know? Most of the world knows about maybe cheap vinaverde or heavy oaky wines from Duro. Let's yeah, sorry, let's not only talk about that. It's his other wines from Duro. His favorite wines, actually. Heavy red, heavily red wines from Duro, absolutely. But the thing is, all people know about Port, but then there's there's so much else that just gets ignored. Yeah, and I love it. I just I also love that there's a lot of tradition that's been preserved here. You know, the vineyards are full of ancestral grape varieties. There are a lot of techniques like the foot stomping in the Duro. Yeah, exactly. Although the Amphora wines, the Talia wines and Alentejo. So for me, it's just it's a it's a playground of of flavor, diversity and style and just loads of fun. I agree. What are your impressions? But we're with the Duro boys right now in 2000. They have a 2019 auction. We visited a couple of producers here. What kind of your impressions? I mean, I know you don't know anything about Portuguese wine. You don't know anything about Duro wine. I had to hold your hand through the whole process. What they make wine here? So that's what we were tasting. I wonder I wondered why I kept drinking. I want I wonder why I wonder why your face was all red. You were blasting. But in general, we were so can I just ask you a question? Yeah, that you telling me that stuff has alcohol? Because my body is a temple. You know, OK, I drink natural wine. Oh, only natural wine. Actually, Simon has a YouTube channel, Simon of Orange. I'm going to link it up here. But we have Tins and New Nickgames after this trip. Simon of Sulphur, Simon of Convention. What's my channel? It's much funnier than maths. OK, this joke's a little bit funnier. So what are your overall impressions of the Duro so far? Well, I mean, so I've been to the Duro many times, but one there was something missing in my education and I hadn't got around all the Duro boys. And I think it's really interesting to go and meet these guys and taste with them because they're the guys that put still wine on the map. Yeah, and that's kind of fascinating to think that only 20, 30 years ago, no one was really talking about still wine. Yeah, it's it's incredible to see the progress. So, you know, I've enjoyed myself. Stay tuned. I've got a vlog coming about what's what would it's like to be in a press trip. Simon will be in it. Some other YouTube guys personalities will be in it. And don't worry, I have plenty of evidence that Simon drinks something other than orange wine. I think I got some embarrassing clips of him being blasted. Did you just call me a personality? I like that. Oh, I mean, a guy that pretends to be a wine expert pretends. So anyway, check out his channel, Simon Lawrence. I'll link it up. It's kind of funny. It's a little bit less serious than this channel. Lots of jokes, right? So the wines have been completely disguised and there's no way for me to know which wine is which. Or poor jokes, pretty, pretty, pretty bad. She's very serious. That's what people don't realize. Do I look like I'm joking? It's pretty bad jokes, actually. So guys, check it out. I'll put the link in the description box. Anything else you want to say about your crappy book before we sign off? I don't know which book you're talking about. Am I my amazing book? You need that book? I don't remember an amazing one ever being written by you. I'm kidding, guys. Check it out. We actually have a copy. Surprisingly, I haven't read. I've flipped through. I haven't read it because my copy's in the US somewhere, don't get home. Amber Revolution, Otherworld Learned to Love Orange Wines. I'll put it in the description box. Check it out, guys. If you like this video, check out Simon of Orange Check channel. And please subscribe to our YouTube channel, Exotic Wine Travel. And mine, too. Yes. In fact, subscribe to mine before you subscribe to his because I wouldn't want you to be worn out. And we'll see you at the next episode.