 That's, um, yeah, that's not a thoroughly enthusiastic hello It's a bit of a oh, oh, it's you Yeah I've just feel like I've been staring at the same four walls for too long now Yeah, but a cabin fever today. I had to go out and get get something to get some lunch Hmm had to trip out and get get on my bike and get a sandwich. Okay Cuz I don't read sometimes. I'm in and I don't really realize Um, oh my I haven't actually seen been outdoors today. Mm-hmm. I think that was Monday or one of the days this week And I hit and I suddenly realized the evening came and I was really irritable with the kids. Mm-hmm, and I thought I know what that is. I need to go out and I just went out for a walk I just and it was like a seven o'clock pitch dark and I just had to go out get some fresh air It's amazing how much that has an effect on me Lockdown 2.0 Yeah, here we are. So it's not really an improvement on lockdown one then well, I was It is it's different. It doesn't feel You know on paper. It's not it's a much softer lockdown than lockdown one. Isn't it? Yeah It's just basically no pubs and restaurants in there really. Yeah, and so as far as work and as far as day-to-day life We're not restricted on going out. We're not not necessarily Time-bound on how long we can spend outdoors, but we just wouldn't us not seeing it's a more of a social lockdown Not we just not seeing anyone. So That's a bit of a shame, but now I think it's just I'm a bit a bit bored of all now. Yeah, all yeah and And you're not drinking either Is that well, it's a lunchtime. So yeah for the benefit of the tape. It's Just gone half past 12. We seem to have snapped. We're both drinking and Kerry Kerry Kerry. Who's who's who's Kerry cherry cherry cola If you're watching then you can see what brand Yeah, other other brands are available brands are available providing you can get to a shop It would be nice to have a little bit of sponsorship from that if we name drop We know we'd like to get sponsorship. No, probably not and No, let's leave that Yes, so welcome everybody. This is what we must be on 105106 something like that episode This will be 106106. There we go. Okay, and we're back in our sheds and houses because Pubs are shut again. Who who I think that's pretty much standard. Oh, I am I Haven't canvassed the whole of my Global response this but I had one lady on course this week from Portugal and They have a similar constraint on lockdown. I kind of Quite a probably a bit more firm than ours really not allowed to this curfews on the streets. Okay, so beyond 11 o'clock at night. I think it is They have to you have to be at home. Mm-hmm And I know that's not the case here. Well, as far as I'm aware, that's not the case here Yeah My son asked me is America in in lockdown too as well I'm pretty sure they didn't even have a first lockdown Be honest. I really shouldn't think they did But yeah the So what is a lockdown? Wrong answers only You get you see this wrong answers only thing. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't like it either I don't like it. I don't I don't really know why I don't like it But I don't like there was one as one wasn't there about what what's a retrospective? Yes only Yeah, I saw that I didn't respond. No, I Don't know what yet. Is it just a bit of fun or is it trying to is it trying to poke fun? I don't know. I don't think it is meant to be a little bit of fun, isn't it? But it could be one of those where and there's no real Target that could be So a negatively impacted I suppose in that context Yeah, we just feel it's just waiting for someone to jump onto a an answer and you know and take it even further I think it so yeah, I suppose for me, I think if I'm really analyzing myself here I think it's because I'm not a fan of Anti-patterns So, you know when someone goes to a conference to say this is this is where it's this is where you're gonna go wrong Or this is these are all failure patterns or these are all wrong examples And that's quite it's quite easy to point out failures But it's not very easy to it's it's it's harder to offer constructive suggestions than it is to offer ways of it going wrong And so yeah, I think that's where that comes from it. It's it's another opportunity to Come up with all the things that are wrong with something without offering anything constructive Yeah, it's um, it just seems like sometimes it's easier to spot the You know to do to rip an idea apart and to explore everything that's wrong And we've been known to make use of that right so yeah, you can flip that around and try and do the opposite Yeah, so sometimes it's it's if someone's not I know it could be I could try to think positive now It could be it could be a good way to get people's concerns or frustrations out into the open in a you know Slightly tongue-in-cheek way many a true word spoken ingest as they say Yeah, and and then you could you could go about starting to try and act on some of that stuff improve some of that stuff I suppose that's a positive Yeah but For me, I might the easiest way to avoid failure is not to try And and if we're trying to avoid failure if that's the thing trying to avoid anti-patterns or doing things wrong Don't know it's not really not really encouraging Safety in a way is it because it's what people are looking at. I'm thinking all there's lots of ways that people could rip apart retrospect Maybe I'm overthinking it Yeah, maybe You said something interesting today, and again we can edit this out if you don't if you a unlikely you Feel I've just because you talk about Twitter and we can edit this out if you dream We can loop around this and talk about something else But you put a tweet out which resonated with at least one person which said I feel less intelligent now or something like that And I did 12 two years ago or something like that wasn't it? Yeah, yeah Yeah, I feel dumber now than I did 12 months ago and I reckon 12 months ago. I I was more intelligent than I was less intelligent than I was two years ago So I think over the last two years. I've been gradually getting more and more stupid. What made you say that what made you what brought that on? well, I Can't remember what instigated it, but I think it's It's a combination of the fact that my memory my long-term memory is getting worse and so trying to recall things it's hard and I Just don't think I've been learning as much. So I haven't been replacing that lost knowledge with new knowledge So my view is that I'm not as clever as I was. I don't have as much knowledge as I was I think I still have the same mental attitude the capacity for knowledge Because I can work things out. I just don't have as much information in my head to recall and the ability to recall it I've been at home a lot. Yeah, as I've most people and with Spending most of my day because my two elder kids are at school a lot, but my youngest isn't so I'm spending a lot of my time With someone who can't talk properly And he was saying wow, will we for for Pretty much anything that he can't have a word for it. Wow. Are we so I have to kind of interpret that So I think I've been you know, maybe dragged down to his conversational level maybe playing with his toys watching his TV programs So that's where that worry came from I think you know I like these kinds of conversations, you know, I learned from talking to you When Nigel comes on Just consuming Wikipedia, doesn't he say you'll pick up just bits of knowledge Bits of information and you just haven't as much opportunity for things like that So I think I'm a little bit dumber than I was I Think there is just less like you say less opportunity You have to be more deliberate like it like say go just being outdoors and walking through Going into a company Speaking to different people you're just picking up lots of different it might not be knowledge But it's just experiences, I suppose and and stories isn't it and then Yeah, it has to be much more deliberate These days and yeah, you can we can order all the books and read Books off, you know Amazon I'm not I'm not I'm not we used to I know and I've got another book I've got a couple of books here that I have ordered. I just haven't read them I I even good because I haven't even been reading fiction, which I love but that's often I do that when I'm on holiday Yeah, so the the info because the environment hasn't So because yeah for me at home now and I was thinking about this just today is that I don't have many Switch off moments at home because everything is at home. Mm-hmm work is and this other people have said this to me It's very hard to Compartmentalize the work now because everyone's working at home my days are a lot longer and The day is amazing. So dressed into the evening. So I was the other night and It's 9 30 and I think I was sitting and and Sabrina watched it turned on a TV program that I obviously didn't want to watch and Then instead of just doing something else picking up a book or a newspaper. I went and did I went and did some more work I thought what what why on earth what I do that? I went and switched my You know this machine back on and I did something else. It's just I think that can't be healthy That's I should try and find something else to do and I think it's just symptomatic of Being around work all the time and it's it is hard for me to distance myself. Hmm Do you feel just as clever as you were a year ago? No, I think I think some of it's an age thing I think We're not that old. I mean you're older than me I've got gray hair. Just look at my reflection now in this in this camera. I've got gray hair, but it's I went I went to a theme park, right? and We went on a couple of roller coasters and I thought I like a roller coaster. I'm trying to you know to show kids that like my kids that level of excitement that Yeah, it's gonna be great. We went on the same roller coaster twice and I felt I felt queasy. I thought that's not me And someone else said it while you're getting old I said these So really did that happen to you when you get old you start getting sick on roller coasters? I said, oh, yeah, yeah, it's an age thing. So now cuz that's like a little earworm in my head thinking what must be my age and See, I don't I don't buy that. I think it's a practice thing. I think your body is out of practice with it Yeah Maybe that's a lot more Yeah But I'm more aware of my own mortality now. I've got more. I think we talked about this before it's a bit deep But I've got more riding on me now But I've got two kids to to feed and to look after so I suppose I feel more vulnerable in that respect Mm-hmm more people depending on me Um, but I went to saying about being appearing intelligent. I did my first lockdown Lockdown 2.0 quiz last night. Okay. Yeah So we do six of us it's got six a five of the lads from from rugby and then We all pick a ten questions each, you know, whatever we want really six rounds hour and a half or so and I was dreadful really. Yeah So and I just felt Whether it was that, you know, because as you'll know Jeff, I do like a quiz you do and we've won quizzes Yeah, but um, I just felt the the round the topics that they chose were particularly great for me But there was one on American geography And I and I sucked at that there was one on politics and like pictures of politicians and I got nought out of 10 I didn't recognize any of them So really obscure. Yeah, so they were kind of a loose connection as to politics and um, I'm not good on politics anyway, but Yeah, that that made me feel dim. I thought well, frankly, I am just kind of retreating into my Shell now. I'm only looking at one aspect of of general knowledge So did you do significantly worse than your friends? Um, I'm struggling significantly worse than I would normally do Yeah But I just I yeah, I had I just felt like oh, I don't know that there was I was conscious of stuff I don't know that either. I don't know that. It's not like I used to know it. It's just that I didn't know it So, um, yeah, I feel a little bit more a little bit more, um Sheltered Okay than I used to Well, I decided I'd try and do something about it. Okay rather than just worry and Or ignore it. So I bought myself a book of cryptic crosswords. Okay And I'm working my way through them. So it's it's uh It's quite difficult. I'm not really Never really done them before um And it's just it's a new skill, I suppose As well. So the first one sort of explains, you know, the different types of clues Uh, and you know the sort of ways of solving things and breaks you in a bit gently Uh, and not you know, I I only being able to get the anagrams Work out which ones are anagrams and then be able to do the anagrams always been quicker than To so then maybe getting you know four out of 30 To one the other day where I got 28 out of 30 without without looking so that that that's an improvement I feel that that makes me feel better. Yeah I was that's the something that I was doing the in lockdown one was a crossword And perhaps I should get back into that. But um, you're competing against your family, weren't you? Yeah, so but that doesn't seem to have happened this time around because again I think my family perhaps are just a bit pissed off with the whole lockdown thing now, but um Maybe I should you know brain, you know exercise my brain my son nine years old had um His spelling test Which you got 10 out of 10 on That's off But nine years old. I was shocked. He was expected to be able to spell What was the word it was it was judicial? nice And there was a few I mean Later transpired that all the words ended with c i a l beneficial um, you know that type of thing judicial but yeah, I thought wow there's words that And he was expected to spell at the age of nine that and again that probably made me feel a bit stupid as well I mean I could spell it, but it was thought cracking That uh, yeah, the nine-year-old can do that, you know off the top of their head Yeah, that's good. That's good. But yeah, it's funny a little bit easier to learn when you're younger, didn't you? but I think just getting back into the habit of consciously trying to learn something new it's I just start soaking up information again. It's an enjoyable thing, isn't it? You know when you learn something new it's just Perhaps it doesn't come as easily as it used to you only have to search it out Um, because you've been learning a new skill. You've been doing some fishing, haven't you? True true. Is that you feel you're learning that you're you're better at it than you were? Yeah, yeah, yeah, um every time I go I Hopefully learn something new um, and If I'm with somebody that's more experienced that's more likely But every also I'll get a bit of trial and error. I'll try some try some different things But yeah, it's sort of learn one thing one small thing in a day. Yeah other than learner Learn 10 new words type thing. Yeah But yeah, all right, is there is there a link? Is there a link? I suppose It's harder for teams to learn off each other if they're remote Um, and if morale's going down I don't know you got for me. I I learn more when I'm in a positive mood Hmm Well, I think it's a vicious circle. Well, it's kind of It's always been how you and I both teach isn't it very much? Um exercise based teaching which is Which has been stretched to to them to the to the other extreme with being online is that That My course originally my look at my scrum master course as an example Pretty much was 80% exercises. I think um So you've had to adapt and it's I personally I think it's harder for me to to learn without You know without you know more of my body involved with me at my hands You're getting practical application of stuff and and learning through doing something. Um I think um, that's academically that's been stretched for me because I've just got You know, just got to read and and absorb from the internet Which for me is great No, then well, we've we've not not necessarily consciously but um we've sort of Aligned ourselves to a Confucian principle From Confucius that the famous quote by Confucius tell me and I was Forget show me and I might and show me and I might remember Involve me and I will understand is it understand. Yeah, that's it So that that one I think we we tend to Yeah, play along along too. Yeah, and I think that's um, that's a good way for me to learn I know people that will will watch youtube videos and just sort of internalize it and I really struggle with that I actually need to do something and and for someone to be able to tell me this is what's working and what isn't working or working out myself For it to really stick. Yeah, but yeah teams they're not They haven't got as much opportunity for that osmotic communication that we used to we used to have at bt We were sitting around each other in other places that we've been you just pick stuff up, don't you? um But that that conscious pairing or triads that kind of thing is is a great way of Learning new things sharing you know taking on new ideas new items from the back or experimenting You haven't got the opportunity for your brand back or as much easy opportunity for your brand bag sessions at lunch or You know your court your conversation in in the corridors at conferences. Yeah, it's uh as you used to On the pace. Yeah, the pace is artificially high so It's hard to slow that learning down and that's why I think a lot of We do a lot more coursework, which is the coursework element obviously is lend itself lend yourself well to remote training that we do and It's very hard for me to i'm still running two-day classes With a bit of follow-up one-to-one Coaching but it's quite hard for people to learn at the same pace online as they would do In person. I think that's just just from what what this lockdown has shown. Um people get more tired and people's capacity for learning is probably restricted Yeah So what's your prediction nothing to do with our job? But what's your prediction on um, so we have a vaccine? Okay a a vaccine I think there are a number of vaccines. No, I know but we have one that's At the front of our of the headlines making the headlines um And already people I was chatting to my friends last night and they're already talking about Oh, well, I'm going to book a holiday now for Easter. Okay. It's all going to get better now And that and there's you know, there's a glimmer of hope the door is the door is slightly open slightly a jar But is it going to make a massive change? You think to how we work by In my spring maybe next year. Do you think how you work? No No, I think it will I think it will make a massive impact on society But not immediately No, um just from a rollout perspective And I imagine there's got to be a certain amount. Well, there has there will be there will be I'm I'm almost certain there will be an element of inspecting and adapting and iterating around this because um There's still a lot of unanswered questions and it's just the first version, right? So they will find improvements over time Um, and it may well it may well give us this they don't know yet Do they how much how much coverage going to give you whether it's going to stop you from spreading it or or what have you so No, I think the the most important thing for this From my perspective the most important aspect here is is to use your word hope is is the hope that it's Giving the world that it's speedable science science can do this and Quite relatively quickly. Yeah, so you know society has proved that Most of the people can do most of the right things most of the time Yeah to limit impact. Yeah science has proven that with enough focus They can be incredibly clever incredibly quickly so Yeah, no matter if this does Off a limited coverage or limited What's the word immunity then The next version will be even better. They will they're taking an agile approach in many ways So there's this virus. I don't know what they would call this vaccine Sorry that they would I'm sure what they call it where it's come from But there are so many out there being tested this this parallel multiple parallel experiments There's one that's shown favor and they'll probably all try different things So it seems like a very agile response in many ways. Yeah And obviously they'll only go into immunize Certain demographics first obviously the most vulnerable We will prioritize. Yeah, there will be an agile roll out. Yeah based on priority We'd be at the bottom of that product backlog right now. Jeff. Absolutely and we should yeah That's we should I agree um But I'm sure there would be many people that would Be pushing for for an artificially high place on the backlog list so that you get a holiday All stakeholders have their reasons It's going to take some some pretty Hopefully it doesn't look like there's going to be a limited Supply, I suppose that would that would be a that would be a bit of a social cultural disaster, wouldn't it? There was a limited supply So, you know, there would I don't know a hypothetical scenario of there is only x amount of Resource that's required to make the vaccine so you couldn't make enough for seven billion people. Yeah and then that would that would cause all sorts of problems, but Yeah, that that prioritization factor and that is a that is a factor in prioritizing any backlog Right, if you if you know that you haven't got enough time or capacity or money To deliver everything on the product backlog Then prioritization isn't just about when for people. It's sometimes a question of if Mm-hmm and people are in my experience a lot more tolerant of Later Than they are of no, yeah Didn't have never. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder it's all going to influence behavior, right? It's a fascinating time to be alive Hmm But like you said, there's there's more they talk well again, I We're talking last night about this, but I think maybe some more news is is only just slightly behind This vaccine. So the other one that's that's kind of leading the charge is this oxford vaccine. So Um, there's potentially which is a different type of vaccine So I think it works in different ways and it's got slightly different logistics in terms of how it would be administered and and less less constraints which might make it more available to more people but um Yeah, it's um, like you said, it's a truly and I talked about this a lot now in my courses about the whole the nature of vaccination the vaccine programs and The government response around experimentation. They're all all these lock downs all these Circuit breaks all these constraints rule of six. They're all experiments that you know that governments are trying to run to try and Learn as quickly as they can about what drops cases and then drops that r-rate back down. So They have um Yeah, it's it's a it's a truly a complex problem in itself Which is quite a nice because people ask me all the time. I keep meaning can scrum work in a non-software Environment and saying well, yeah, let's let's talk about that. Let's talk about that in the current state That's with one of the limiting factors is uh, the length of the feedback loop, right? So it takes quite a while for experiments to actually Yeah Bare fruit or no if they're working. So can we accelerate those? There's learning that learning those feedback loops um Because there was always a lag wasn't there between The r-rate and infections and experiments and the r-rate and so on. So the different local Experiments different tiers and things. I think that was a good opportunity for multiple parallel experiments Yeah, fascinating. What else is going on in the agile world? Where are we? It's coming up to well, so At the moment. I'm I'm due to be talking in South Africa in February. Yeah And we the conference organizers and I we had we had a chat. We had an agreement that you know Ideally, this would be in person. But if not, then we'll we'll we'll do a virtual online thing And we wouldn't make any commitments or decisions until nearer the time because it just wouldn't make any sense So we're keeping an eye on it and no flights have been booked yet um Where was I going with this? I don't know you're talking about What's going on in the agile world? And then you talked about South Africa See, this is this is a sign of me getting dumber I've even forgotten what I was talking about in the middle of talking about it. You drifted um Oh balls But it is harder to focus when you're not you know When you're staring at a screen or a camera This will come back to you in a minute, but it's I found this when I when presenting at conferences or user groups You just feel less Part of it if you're less engaged in it Because you're not I know what it was told you so travel right Yeah, so at the moment we are in the uk and many other countries We're not allowed to travel can't go on all day But I could travel for business still yes, so I could still get on a flight now Go to South Africa give my talk and come back There are quarantine issues with that but the fact that I can still travel for work When I can't travel for For pleasure It's a little odd For me What do you mean odd? well I don't think that work Is essential no I would say a holiday is more essential for me than what Work right now. Yeah um So um, yeah But yeah, no, I don't I don't really that that that conference is Unknown and trying to keep your options open Is is a challenge When there's a huge amount of uncertainty, we don't want to close off options, but equally keeping your options open Can be expensive So In order for organizations in order for teams to be as agile as possible One thing one skill they need to develop, but it's not something that we generally Have consciously trained we haven't really is options keeping options open And we've we've talked a lot about options in terms of creativity in terms of engagement in terms of You know getting better results from meetings and self-organizing teams, but we haven't really talked about it in terms of um Agility as such. I don't think Have you Not well, I talk a little bit about you know waiting till the Last critical moment to decide on doing something. But yeah, that might not be Multi-options it might not be um Have multiple threads in place. It's just waiting for as long as possible before you book that flight or before you um but I suppose It's it's more expensive like you say to prepare for in the in the in this conference example Do they run both in parallel? Do they prepare for a program that's just face to face but also invest in tooling and and um Capability to run it remotely because obviously that's going to incur a cost because you can't do that at the last minute too much because You want to test that you got the capability to do it? Yeah So there is like you say there is a cost to running multiple things in parallel for a for a period of time Wonder if I've missed the last responsible moment because once Most countries in the world went into lockdown. I imagine the price of flights went really down But as soon as the news of the vaccine came out flight prices probably started going back up again So if I'd have booked a flight when prices were at their lowest and didn't need to use it Then I'd be wasting less money. If I did need to use it. I would have spent less money Um, maybe I've maybe I've missed that last responsible moment I don't know. I remember a while back. Um, I say hi the conference Yeah I uh made a mistake of booking a flight too early Yes Do you remember this? Yes. Yeah. Well, I booked No, no, no, no, no. This this was something we're working years back. Okay. I booked a flight on on the basis of Cheapness it was I think it was a cheap deal or something like that But um, I booked it on the hope I think it was before it had an answer as to whether my talk had been submitted So there was a a big risk on whether my Registration would have been paid. Yeah, attendance would have been paid. So it could have cost me a lot more money now. Luckily I did have my um paper um accepted But it wasn't too early well it would If wow, it was it to it wasn't too early. I felt the stress that I experienced At the time would have suggested it was too early Okay, so the stress you didn't need stress about it well that so I don't One thing that i've been uh working with some some people on recently is Separating the decision from the outcome so Just because it turned out that your paper was accepted and you got the price at a cheap rate Doesn't necessarily as a positive outcome, but doesn't necessarily mean it was a good decision. No And equally if your paper hadn't been accepted doesn't mean that it was a bad decision The quality of the decision is not dependent on the outcome. It's important for gamblers to know this Yeah, and effectively when you're looking at options theory, it is an element of gambling So you're trying to hedge your bets, right? You're trying to to play the risk and probability against the loss and then the game um, so The variable that you just talked about there the stress that you got. Yeah Now that That was something that was within your control. Mm-hmm. You didn't need to experience that stress. No Not simply because of the outcome But because the stress isn't going to affect the outcome. No, exactly. So it's kind of pointless. Yeah Yeah, if it is a bad outcome Then worry about it. Yeah Rather than worry about it before that's because that was wasted stress. Um, so then the question Is how how can you avoid that unnecessary stress and part of it is rationalizing that the outcome isn't dependent upon The quality the outcome isn't dependent upon the stress And it doesn't necessarily put negative outcome doesn't mean it's a bad decision Also, some of the fear-setting stuff that we would have done in the past around Well, what am I assuming people are going to think of me if it does happen what and so on? um You know, it's a bit of a ramble there, but that that that Came through my filter of recent experience is something very very relevant Are you better at dealing with that kind of stress now as a result or yeah, yeah, you're still a warrior. Yeah, no I still am a warrior, but um I suppose I've learned from That is that I can't afford to wait So it's it's interesting because generally In general terms, I'm a procrastinator Um, so it's quite unusual for me to decide something early So it must have been a really good deal Yeah for you to do that. Yeah I think it was purely based on the price of the flight. It was instinctive. I think And if you rationalize that you say Normally, I am a procrastinator. So this must be a really good deal for me to do this therefore I'm justified in doing this. Um Um And whereas I'm kind of the opposite And I prefer to get all that admin stuff out of the way as soon as possible So I don't have to worry about it or worry about forgetting about it Um, so is it with that in mind then back to full circle? Is this waiting game that you're playing with South Africa? Is that Are you fighting with that internally? Well, I think if it was if it was me that was paying for it. Yes I would be yeah um But no, it's not so Uh Yeah, I don't really have a huge amount of exposure there It's not really as much my issue, but it's a little bit more out of your control If you're not if you're not booking it if you're not Does that make it easier for you to deal with if you if it's more out of your control? Or would you prefer to have? Oh, yeah Because I don't have the negative downside. Okay So I I I don't I hate wasting money. Um So, um, yeah, it would it would it would sort of bug me. Um, I'm thinking Can I do this? Is it covered by insurance? I've been thinking of all those kinds of things. Yeah a bit a bit um I'm tired about that kind of stuff, but Once I've made the decision I'm kind of let it go. So I'd rather worry about it Make the decision knowing that it was the best decision I could make And then if it turns out to be unfavorable say, you know, it was the best decision I could make I bought myself by making that decision well early not perfectly. I bought myself piece of mind Yeah, I get that Maybe that's the economist in me my accounting degree. I wasn't all about the numbers I like I like the cost benefit analysis and it wasn't just about the financial cost Yeah, there was social cost. There was environmental cost. There was Psychological cost all sorts of different things and I quite like that. Yeah That was the bit of the accountancy that I liked the only bit wasn't much of it I could never understand exchange rates and interest rates and things like that There must be part of that Even though you you didn't enjoy it. There's probably part of that You know that you've benefited from that that um that background this this Studying better stead as a entrepreneur stroke, you know businessman. Whatever you want to However, yeah, I think so I think so especially when you know, I'm coaching product owners and things. Yeah Um and being a product owner That that helps because I am As well as being a bit of a pre-crastinator I kind of goes in with it. I suppose a bit impulsive a bit impatient. Yeah, and My wife would say a bit But uh, yeah that that being able to look through um both a financial and Non-financial cost lens. Yeah helps temper some of that to a degree. Yeah Hmm Yeah, this this doesn't feel It's going all the way back to the start this lockdown doesn't feel as constraining as before But it is playing on my boredom thing Yeah I mean your board um I'm bored. I I get bored. I think it's because Because this is the second version. So I don't know if you remember how you felt when the first The first um week at the first lockdown came in I was excited. I yeah, I was just gonna say that in our house There was this feeling of oh, it's different. Oh, it's new It's going to be it's going to challenge us in different ways to think of being creative and to think of being exciting And now I think the first week has been Oh god, you remember the last week of the last lockdown rather than you know, rather being a new and then An unknown thing. So that's I think already and we've been told so many things about how Particularly about mental health and how important mental health is and I'm very much aware of that now and I said before look, you know, I needed to get out and get some fresh air I'm more aware of that now that I need outdoor time and just time away from the screen I don't even found myself telling people I was teaching this week get away from the screen during these breaks get taken Alpha let's get away from the screen get away from the screen So I think that's I'm more aware of that now and that's probably um Bringing me down a bit. I think if anything the the field the need to to spend more time away from it My wife has a very different view of that um, so she It's not that she doesn't um buy into mental health. It's the the constant messaging of You may have mental health problems. There are lots of mental health issues out there In in her world is she worries that that actually makes people think oh, maybe I maybe I should have mental health problems right now Because everybody's talking about it. Yeah, where you would actually have just got on with things and not really not stressed about it Um, it's sort of created a problem if you like Um, and I can I can absolutely see that point. Um, but I think given it's it's stigma For for many it's it's more important to be talking about it and at the risk of potentially Making someone aware of a condition they might have Not encountered. Yeah, that's don't know the words made sense, but hopefully the sentiment made sense Yeah I think we've been lucky from a weather perspective, but the darkness is definitely an issue right? Darkness is always a it's always linked to lower mood. Anyway, I remember when one week I was working up sort of north and Half of Norway and teaching during the day. So I didn't see and it was inside with no windows I didn't see literally didn't see sun for a week Um, now some of that was within my control. I could have gone outside at lunch during break Yeah, and for whatever reason chose not to but not seeing the sun for a whole week had had a Massive impact. I didn't realize it at the time, but it did And that that's We've got we've got the opportunity Yeah, and I heard on the radio the other day. There's some campaign isn't there. Um, that's gone global now in terms of trying to Something called it's called light up something. I can't think of what it's called But it's basically campaigning to try and with it with the obviously the day is getting shorter I think there's a campaign in this country certainly to print for people to put their Christmas lights up earlier. Oh, yeah Yeah, so to try and increase Light levels and to you know to try and if people generally get a lift from Christmas anyway They do we actually talked about that in our household Um, and we've decided Not to and the reason we decided not to is because we didn't want the The positive feeling to have worn off by the time Christmas actually comes around. Yeah, if that makes sense because you can kind of just as you can Tolerate pain for if you've got this a consistent level of pain for a period of time It can it can feel like it's wearing off because you sort of normalize to it Yeah, if you have a consistent level of joy for a period of time it's sort of You become numb to it as well. Yeah And so, you know, we may well put them up slightly earlier than normal When would normal be for you your house? Uh, so normally we would get Christmas decorations out of the loft on the 1st of december, right? And we would try and get a tree that first weekend. Okay That would be normal How about you? Last year it was the 1st of december Which is earlier than previous years My I mean my my ham my parents always used to be very strict two weeks before two weeks after Christmas was um You know when things would go up, but we're a bit more um Yeah, the kids are quite a bit more excitable And they were well if they're their way we'd be doing it tomorrow, I think but um But I do you said the hope is as well. Obviously if you put it up earlier then Hopefully this lockdown might end a bit before Christmas You know, we don't know that yet. It might be extended, but the plan is for the third of december second Is it? Well, it runs to the second. I don't know whether that means the second is locked down I think I think the first day the first three days Thursday the third thing um So the hope is but by then obviously if they relax some of those Constrates and maybe go back to the tier base system that We'd be able to go out and enjoy the december with some of our friends, you know and whatever that might be but That might bring a different sense of joy rather than just Christmas lights. So we'll we'll see Yeah, all right. Well, we'll um We'll see. Yeah, we'll we'll crack on hopefully let's let's see what what's what next episode's going to be like Yeah, no doubt. We'll still be here in our sheds. Um this time next week. So we'll do it again We have more things, so yeah, maybe we'll have about something a little bit more Exciting than diet soda Yes diet soda, yes for our american colleagues. I'm not I'm not I'm not branding The fact is that I've been holding it up on the camera people will have seen it if they've seen the yeah Seen the video version true true All right, we'll look at yourself. Yeah and each other