 So earlier in the series when I when I looked at John 6 earlier in the series I briefly addressed the issue of whether Judas was saved or lost his salvation or was never saved now I asserted obviously that he was never saved, but I was fairly brief about that issue So in light of what we've been reading in John 13, I'm going to re-explore this issue again I'm going to do it in much greater detail here because although it does it will have to digress from John 13 for quite a while The passage here does give us some insight as to why Jesus recruited Judas as a disciple if we are to say that he was never saved Okay So if I you know if I assert that Judas was was never saved some questions need to be answered such as why would Jesus include an unsaved person as one of his disciples, okay, and there's various other questions that People ask and what we need to be able to do as well is refute some of the counter arguments that conditional security advocates will use So that there are three possible positions on this issue So position one is that Judas was not What was sorry was saved and did not lose his salvation, but he did suffer loss now I don't know anybody who asserts this position It's a very unusual position told them really when we look at the other two I think that will really be easily debunked by default really as we explore this issue So the second possibility is that Judas was saved and then he lost his salvation. So this is the prominent position held by Conditional security advocates such as for example, Jesse Morel who I'm going to be debunking in this this part of the video He's done several videos where he asserts that Judas lost his salvation So we'll explore some of the talking points on this and refute them And then the third position which is the position that I hold is that Judas was never saved So he didn't lose his salvation because he didn't have it This is the position that I hold as does anybody who believes in free grace eternal security Oh, but also Calvinists with the perseverance of the saints would believe this as well. Okay So just skimming over these verses here in John 13 What what does this all tell us about Judas's membership as a disciple? Well, first of all in verse 18 it says but the scripture may be fulfilled So we see that it was necessary in the Old Testament For certain scriptures relating to Jesus must be fulfilled in the New Testament So if they're not fulfilled Jesus couldn't refute prophecies pointing to him and so he couldn't be the Christ by definition. Okay, so that gives us one indication It's to fulfill scripture Verse 21 says one of you shall betray me. So as demonstrated in John 6 earlier in the series Jesus already for knew that Judas would betray him Okay, Jesus already knows this about Judas before it happens. That's another important point. Okay Now we then see between verses 22 to 25 that the disciples doubting of whom he spoke They're asking who it is. So the disciples couldn't discern among one another who would betray Jesus They had absolutely no idea it was fault who was false It could have been any one of the twelve as far as they were concerned Maybe Peter thought oh, maybe it's John or maybe it's Andrew. It could have been any of them as far as they knew Okay. Now as we get to 26 to 29 Jesus gives them an indication by dipping the sop He gave it to Judas Iscariot and then he said he sent Judas Iscariot away And yet despite doing this even as Jesus provides clear hints here that Judas is the one that would betray him The disciples still don't discern this. Okay They still have they still don't put the two and two together Even though it seems like Jesus is making it quite obvious in verse 26 without saying in front of Judas Okay So what are the arguments then? Supporting that Judas lost his salvation the idea that he was saved and then he lost his salvation Now conditional security advocates may use a variety of logical steps to assert this to reach this assertion So for example argument one well Judas was a disciple So there are certain logical steps used to assert that he once had salvation which is supposedly Proven by the authority that Jesus had given him The second argument is that there are some verses that people would quote directly as Proof texts if you like about Judas being lost or fallen and these are supposedly the proof text that he lost his Salvation and so we're going to explore both of these arguments and we're going to see their shortcomings. Okay So dealing with the first argument that Judah as Judas was a disciple There are certain logical steps that we therefore conclude that he was safe So Jesse Morel has discussed the issue of Judas several times on his channel He claims that because Judas was used by Jesus to preach the gospel and cast out devils That he must have been saved and one of the arguments he uses that well the devil cannot cast out his own devils So as you read mark 3 in the same chapter, he gives them the authority to cast out devils to the 12 But then later in that same chapter. We have the Pharisees and Jews confronting Jesus Because they accuse him of casting out the devils by the power of Satan But how can Satan cast out Satan and so obviously when you put those two together and they're really in the same chapter there You can see why he would jump to that that conclusion. Okay He's also asserted as well that Jesus prepared Judas a throne in heaven So he wouldn't have prepared a throne for Judas if he wasn't saved at the time when Jesus said this So Judas had a throne in heaven but lost it and this comes from Matthew 19 where he said onto his disciples You shall sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel and so that that's the first he will go to we'll see Judas had a throne. Okay? The second argument is that some people will quote verses directly about Judas being lost or fallen and so they're kind of Irrefutable proof text that Judas lost his salvation. So this guy here is called Keith. His channel is called why city preachers So in this particular video, you can't lose salvation He was refuting eternal security as preached from John sakes, which I have used advocate for eternal security earlier in the series Which says that Jesus should lose nothing regarding those that he gives eternal life to So Keith's refutation of that is that Judas was saved at one point, but then was lost according to John 17 Where it says I have kept them in your name those that you gave me I have kept and none of them is lost But the son of perdition referring to Judas that the scripture might be fulfilled as we saw in John 13 So we'll need to explore that as well. I think as well Jesse Morel has made the same argument in his video. Yes, you can lose salvation epic Bible study About 57 minutes and 15 Seconds in he says Jesus said to the father that that that same verse that Keith was quoting And so what he then says it in the dialogue is that in other words Jesus lost Judas. That's what that verse is saying This is Jesse Morel's quote in bold there. That's what he's saying from that verse Now another verse that I have also heard used to suggest that Judas lost his salvation is in acts 125 where it says Judas by transgression fell that he might go to his own place That's that's another one of the proof text. So we'll need to look at that as well. Okay So first, let's explore the issue about Judas preaching the gospel and casting out devils And we'll quickly discover why this logical leap doesn't really prove that Judas was saved and so just as a reminder Here's the logical steps that they will make While Judas preached the gospel and cast out devils And then they'll say well Jesus would never ordain a false prophet to preach the gospel and satan cannot cast out satan therefore Judas must have been saved initially But because he Because we know he was false. He must have lost his salvation. Okay So first we must consider Did Judas really preach a false gospel and if he did Should Jesus have ordained him to preach the gospel? Okay Well Problem number one is that well, I need to know what verse or passage are you citing That says that Judas preached a false gospel. Now, I know that Judas was false But we don't really know what kind of gospel he would have preached Um, so You know, we know that Judas was false to Jesus between and this is abundantly clear in the scripture We don't know what kind of gospel message Judas would have actually preached Did he preach something other than the kingdom of god is near? Well, there's no evidence of this that I know of post one in the comments if I've missed something Did he preach something other than believe on the lord Jesus Christ that thou shalt be saved? Well, again, we we don't really know because we don't really have it documented what the disciples were Going around preaching when Judas. Sorry when Jesus sent them out So it is actually possible that Judas Preach the correct. I won't say the correct gospel the correct gospel message Even though he himself was false now This is perfectly plausible because of what we read in John 13 during this study that even after Jesus Sent hints to the other disciples To indicate that Judas was false They still didn't realize that he was false and they were going around preaching with him So they didn't pick up on anything wrong with what he was saying They didn't realize that Jesus was calling him false then and there in John 13 So, uh You know did Judas really preach false gospel and if he did should Jesus have ordained him to preach the gospel then? Well, really I think saying that Jesus should not have sent Judas to preach if he was a false prophet is is really to assume The conclusion because you have to arbitrarily decide that you think Jesus should not have sent Judas to preach. Okay We have already seen from John 13 and we saw it earlier in John 6 as well that Jesus chose Judas Already knowing that he is false to the intent that scripture would be fulfilled So even if Judas did preach a false gospel and you ask, well, why did Jesus choose him to preach the gospel then? But the thing is this all has to happen that scripture might be fulfilled. Okay So we we saw this in John 13. I know who I am. I've chosen but that the scripture might be fulfilled And then in John 6 Earlier in the series we read that well Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed on who should betray him And then later in that same chapter have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil He spoke of Judas is scary. So he chose Judas knowing that he is a devil. Okay So these scriptures indicate Jesus picked Judas already recognizing that he was false To the intent that scripture might be fulfilled and the disciples could not even discern that he was false Okay, so if he's preaching a false gospel, why didn't the disciples discern that? Okay So, um, so, you know, why would Jesus pick a false disciple and yet Judas would be so Indecentable to the disciples. Well, we've already seen that it's a scripture would would be fulfilled But also you can apply a wider allegorical lesson to John 13 that even in Christendom We won't always recognize false prophets easily at least not straight away Okay So expanding on this, uh, we know obviously that Jesus warned us about false prophets in the sermon on the mount They are wolves in in woodlib on the outside. They wear sheep's clothing now We typically take that to mean that they appear Meek and gentle rather than dangerous and hostile which is true But by wearing sheep's clothing they can also appear as one of Jesus's flock if we take the sort of Sheep analogy from John chapter 10 that you know, Jesus has his sheep So you could also interpret that as they look like Jesus sheep not just that they're meek and gentle We can only know them by their fruits not the tree itself So unless you have expertise in a barriculture or horticulture agriculture that the chances are that like me You probably don't really know How to recognize a lot of different fruit trees if they aren't growing fruit Okay, it however if you see fruit grow on them, then you will know what kind of trees So if I see a tree that doesn't have apples on it, I don't know if it's an apple tree I only know if it's an apple tree if I look at it and it has apples on it That's the only way I know okay now Maybe some of you are experts in these fields and you know, but you know, the average man doesn't So with this in mind then Judas's betrayal of Jesus Wasn't manifest yet. Remember that fruit if we if we can know false prophets by their fruit Fruit doesn't just spring up out of nowhere. It takes time to grow fruit. So you won't recognize it straight away So the fruit of Judas wasn't manifest yet And so the disciples couldn't really discern that he was false Because they had not yet seen the corrupt fruits of Judas So they couldn't really yet know that the fruit tree itself was corrupt because it didn't have any fruit yet Okay So you might ask them well, even if Judas has corrupt fruit his betrayal of Jesus was not yet known Surely when they were out preaching with Judas They should have recognized him then Unless he was producing good fruits up, you know, preaching the correct gospel casting out devils And so that's something that someone will ask To suggest that Judas was saved because otherwise the disciples Um would pick up on that. Well, you might see this This is undermining the responses I gave to the first problem. But but what you have to consider the following points What Judas actually preached and whether he could cast out devils Should not automatically mean Should not automatically be asserted to mean that he was producing good fruit It is possible that his preaching never actually got anybody saved Even if he was preaching the right message Superficially And his casting of the devils could have been temporary or fake. We don't really know, you know, it's possible that he just faked casting out devils If false prophets were that easy to identify Jesus wouldn't really need to warn us about them in Matthew 7. He had to warn us because they're hard to identify And as I mentioned in the previous slide fruit takes a while to grow. It doesn't grow instantaneously And so it's possible that Judas Still preached correctly and cast out devils But the true fruit of his works or the outcome or the product of what he did Was not yet truly manifest. So for example, maybe he only ever produced false converts And even after casting out devils, maybe the recipients didn't get eternally saved from those encounters Whereas many of other uh, Jesus's recipients or the other disciples recipients did they just did it with Judas So Judas could have preached the right message And and cast out devils. It just didn't really have any lasting effect to the saving of the soul. Okay Um and problem number three is that if if the disciples remember that the disciples predominantly Went as a group or two by two So the in mark I cited a few slides ago that this didn't happen yet He gave them the power and ordained them to preach but later in mark six That's when Jesus sends out the 12 in pairs So even if Judas was false and let's just say for the sake of argument He could not wield the power of the other disciples He was still paired with a disciple that was not false. So as long as Judas didn't preach anything too false Or too off base That the pair disciple wouldn't discern that he is false Uh and the pair disciple may also provide important biblical truth while the pair of them are preaching to the recipient and um, let me give you a couple of examples Of passable language to show that Judas Could have employed something similar Where he's not outright preaching a false gospel, but it's difficult to recognize that he is preaching a false gospel. Okay So on my channel, I'm not going to get into it in this video, but I've argued extensively on my channel that the Repent of your sins to be saved mantra Is the broad road leading to destruction that deceives millions of Christians and that faith alone is the narrow road leading to life On the contrary a repent of your sins preacher So Jesse Morell is one of them. Why city preachers is one of them. They would say that you have to repent of your sins to be saved They they would on the other hand say that my faith alone gospel is well Say my I mean, you know everybody that believes that They say that that's the broad road that deceives millions of Christians and that their repent of your sins gospel is the narrow road So I claim that I'm on the narrow road and they're on the broad road They claim that I'm on the broad road and they're on the narrow road Now part of this confusion is because of the language that a lot of evangelical Christians use Which on the surface sounds like faith alone language, which is difficult to discern at first But if you were to really think about it carefully and break it down Is it really faith alone language or rather is it works language? That masquerades as faith alone a lot of Christians use what I would call Spectrum language we have faith alone and we have faith and works But they use language that's sort of bridging those two on this spectrum where it's not really clear exactly where someone's trying to place themselves So here i'm going to give you some examples of this spectrum language So example number one case in point repent of your sins to be saved Well, this phraseology will mean different things to different people it's spectrum language So if if someone who does believe in faith alone and they do really believe that but they were to say that You ask them. Well, what exactly do you mean by repent of your sins to be saved? They will say well, you recognize that you are a sinner in need of a savior and you trust in Jesus to save you Well, that's what that's what I believe But that that's what they're in that's what they think that that's what that means repent of your sins Now if you ask Keith or Jesse or someone on the work faith plus workside They will say they will define that as repent of your sins to be safe You must not sin anymore. You must be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. That's how they Define repent of your sins. So you see it's the same phrase But two people are interpreting it completely differently Now people that are sort of on the spectrum like Calvinists and reformed They'll say well, it doesn't mean perfection, but there must be some evidence of change That's the kind of thing that like billy graham would say for example. So that's kind of Then they are they over there or are they over there? It's not exactly clear, but you see it's the same phrase Being used by all three different ends of the spectrum. Okay So even though this is not biblical phraseology like the bible doesn't say repent of your sins to be saved I know there's phrases that people will take that that sounds similar, but it never says that verbatim phrase You can see how both a true prophet and a false prophet could use this same terminology According to either paradigm So if the disciples were all preaching faith alone, but then Judas let's say Judas was preaching repent of your sins to be saved Well, the disciples could have interpreted it as that that's what they thought that that's what Judas meant When maybe Judas actually meant something Over here, so it's not obvious. It wouldn't be obvious that the other person preaches a different gospel. Okay Now here's another example when people say Surrender your life to Christ to be saved or surrender to his lordship to be saved again This phrase this phraseology will mean different things to different people its spectrum language So if we ask the faith alone guy, what what do you mean surrender everything to Jesus? What does that mean? Well, so well, you cannot save yourself So no, you call upon the lord Jesus and he will save you freely You just have to give everything to him. Let him be your savior That that's how he would interpret that statement Whereas if we ask faith and works guy over here surrender everything to Jesus, you know You must give up your sin and everything else and if you're clinging on to anything You won't be saved that same same phrase But a completely different meaning because it's not clear what that phrase actually means its spectrum language And then obviously the these guys that are kind of in the middle there that the you know most evangelicals They'll say well you submit to his lordship so that you know, he can begin to make changes in your life Well, if he begins to make changes, it sounds almost like they're over here because I don't I don't need to make those changes to be saved God will begin it But then If God has to make these changes then we're still kind of over here then because we must see this So again, you can see how this phrase Can fit anywhere on this spectrum? So if the disciples are preaching one of these things and Judas is preaching a different thing We don't really know because this phrase doesn't tell us it doesn't tell us where on this spectrum you actually sit Okay, so again This is not biblical phraseology. The bible never says surrender your life to christ to be saved It's just it's parroted spectrum language that evangelical christians use And it will mean different things to different people So a false prophet and a true prophet could use this same phrase They're not easily going to be able to identify each other as Preaching an opposing gospel you see mr. Faith alone says surrender to Jesus to be saved Faith plus works guys says surrender everything to Jesus to be saved Well, they're not if they just hear that from each other they're going to think yeah amen We preach the same gospel But when you really get down to the nitty gritty they don't okay And then another example is this have a personal relationship with Jesus to be saved. It's all about relationship people say Well, again, this phrase will mean different things to different people one guy says well, don't shut Jesus out You know turn to Jesus call upon him alone Ask him, you know and ask him in prayer and he will save you He will take that statement have a personal relationship as faith alone language The works guy well He's going to say you know you must be on your knees every day seeking him in prayer Otherwise you are not saved because you like this relationship And then you know people in the middle of you know, whenever you feel like giving up You just keep clinging and turning on to Jesus and stay focused on it It's this idea that we have to keep focusing because we're constantly You know at risk of losing that that focus and that's that relationship there that working relationship So again, you know, we see that this same type of language the bible never says this phrase the bible never says Have a relationship with Jesus. It's just something that Christians From across this spectrum all say so we don't know if they're preaching a false gospel or not Because we don't know what they mean by these catchphrases So bringing this back to Judas then if Judas had used this same kind of language this sort of spectrum language When he was preaching the gospel It wouldn't be immediately obvious to the pair disciple that Judas was false So even if Judas was always false, he could have just as well used similar kinds of language that ensured that he never truly Preach the correct biblical gospel But he wasn't entirely obviously preaching a false gospel either. Okay So in conclusion to the first point then just because Judas was ordained to preach That that has no correlation with his salvation It's perfectly plausible that Jesus sent him out to preach despite the fact that Judas was false So, you know the idea that Judas was sent to preach is not really a valid argument to assert that Judas was saved Or that he was once a true prophet at some point in history And and so the next point then is what about the casting of devils then because didn't Jesus Make it clear that satan cannot cast out or at least he would not cast out his own devils Well, the problem number one with this is that we already saw in previous Lists of problems that Jesus sent his disciples out two by two So Judas was presumably paired with a good disciple when casting out devils Now this is assume this is if we assume that Judas didn't have the power to do it himself if he was not saved So it's perfectly plausible that Judas and that the good disciple would perform the Exorcism at the same time for the same devil to come out doing it as a pair But it was the power of the good disciple that did the actual casting And so the good disciple was completely unaware that Judas was not supplying any spiritual power to the exorcism because well They both cast out that devil and the devil comes out The the disciple the other disciple doesn't necessarily know that it's his power alone. Okay That's if you know if we assume that that kind of a paradigm and so The the second problem then is that we often assume that Judas could only have this power if he was saved But it's not entirely implausible that Judas was given the power by Jesus to cast out devils Even if he was false anyway Okay, because remember Jesus needs a false disciple as we we saw earlier so that scripture can be fulfilled So if he didn't give Judas that power Well, then the disciples might cotton on too early that Judas was false and that would prevent scripture being fulfilled so You know, there may have been some eternal necessity That Jesus had to give him this power even if he wasn't saved now There are some verses that suggest this power is exclusively for believers such as mark 16 17 the signs shall follow them that believe they shall cast out devils um acts 19 Also, there were some Jewish exorcists and and they couldn't cast out the Evil spirits But remember that both of these verses refer to after the cross not before And Jesus did not directly give any authority to the Jewish exorcists in um acts chapter 19 and really Yeah, that like mark 16 makes it look like it's for them who believe but don't just read that verse in amnesia to everything else that the bible says because Yeah, if we look at Matthew seven and the sermon on the mount There there are going to be many people who say lord, have we not cast out devils? So they're bragging about casting out devils But they're filed under I never knew you depart from me you that work in equity So now this passage doesn't necessarily say whether they're casting out devils was a legitimate power You know, maybe they were fakers, but either way it doesn't really matter Because we can interpret Judas to be the same Okay, whether Judas did it or whether he faked it So conditional security doesn't really work here because Jesus said I never knew you not I used to know you but you lost your salvation and I don't know you anymore It's I never knew you okay Now I'm only saying that it's plausible that Judas could cast out devils by the power of God despite being unsaved I'm not saying that that's how I believe it happened But it doesn't prove it certainly doesn't prove that he was saved. Okay It's not really a guarantee that he was saved And also as well, you know does just building on that same idea revelation 16 We have the unclean things the mouth of the false prophet for they are the the spirits of devils Working miracles. Okay, so Whether Judas could or could not cast out devils He could certainly you know spirits of devils can work miracles and they can at least make it look like miracles happening So, uh, you know that that may or may not include the casting out devils now What about then Satan casting cannot cast out Satan? Well You could consider the possibility really that Satan doesn't cast his demons out Rather the demons leave at his command So Satan could still give the illusion that demons are being cast out when they're actually In in a way being requested out in other words because remember when Jesus casting out devils The devils won't leave when anybody else tells them to okay, the devils don't want to leave Jesus has to command them to leave. Otherwise they won't leave And Jesus is doing that contrary to the will of those devils Whereas if Satan is their leader so to speak They're going to obey him anyway. So satan doesn't have to cast them out satan simply has to command or request them out But it's not really the same thing and I understand that that is purely conjectural on my part and again I'm saying it's plausible. I'm not saying that that's how it happened so One could debate whether these miracles were actually genuine or a fake illusion But either way we can apply that to Judas. It's entirely possible that Judas could fake having the power of God. Okay So in conclusion then neither of these two things really prove that Judas was eternally saved that that's not really a strong enough case. Okay So what about the next issue then? What about the um throne in heaven because that was one of Jesse Morel's other logical steps that um the issue of jesus losing Judas regarding his salvation as well so Jesus offered 12 thrones in heaven for the 12 disciples including Judas But then Judas fell by transgression So he had a throne, but he lost his throne and therefore Judas lost his salvation by forfeiting the throne reserved for him in heaven Because what they'll say is well, why would jesus give him a throne if he's not saved anyway? Well, let's take a look again at Matthew 19 28, but we'll also see john 17 as well as we look at this issue So in Matthew 19 So in verse 25, it's his disciples. So we assume that Jesus is talking to his 12 disciples And after chapter 19 when we get into chapter 20 He's going to tell a parable and then he will confirm that Jesus will take the 12 To Jerusalem now remember this because this is going to be important momentarily But context would seem to assume that it's only the 12 disciples that Jesus is talking to here So it doesn't include any other disciples. Okay. Now in verse 27 Peter It speaks on behalf of all the 12 disciples saying behold we have forsaken all we have followed the what shall we have therefore so He's speaking for all the 12 But it's important to note that this does not automatically Mean that Peter represents them all just because he Speaks on their behalf and we'll see in a few slides why that is. I will you know, I will expand on that And then in verse 28 Jesus then confirms that the 12 thrones. It's not 11 thrones. It's 12 thrones But his choice of wording is very important now So this is the verse that jesse maril has used to assert that jesus was one saver and then lost his salvation But really this verse Arguably Refuse it and I'll explain why that is and so hold on to these points while we cross reference it with other scriptures as well So let's have a look at john 17 and cross references in john 17 This is jesus final prayer in john before judas portrays him and judas has already left the other disciples. So Jesus is praying for his disciples specifically. He's not praying for all believers Okay, because he's going to do that later in verse 20. So at the moment he's only praying for his disciples So this is the verse 11 and 12 where Jesus keeps the ones that the father has given him And none of them is lost but the son of perdition referring to judas and the purpose was that scripture would be fulfilled And then down in verse 15 When we look at jesus prays for his disciples I pray that you Not that you should take them out of the world, but you should keep them from the evil. Well that prayer For the disciples arguably That prayer wasn't really answered in judas because judas wasn't really kept from evil. So His prayer there didn't even apply to judas because or if it did god, you know, the father didn't answer that prayer. Okay So, um, did judas really have a throne prepared and then lost it? Well, you know, did jesus really lose judas? Well John 6 helps us to understand the full picture of what's going on in regard to judas So in john chapter 6 earlier in the chapter not not speaking about judas specifically, but speaking about eternal life Jesus said all that the father gives me shall come to me and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out So, uh, the father must give them to jesus for eternal life to happen. Okay, this must happen And once this happens in verse 39 this the father's will that all which he has given me So once the father has given them on to jesus for eternal life I Should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day and then he that believes on him You know believes on he has a eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day So we clearly see jesus talking about eternal life He's not talking about discipleship. He's not talking about the obedient life of the believer He's talking to a group of unsaved jews. We saw that when we studied john chapter 6 Going back to the basics to tell them what they have to do for eternal life. Okay, so It's important that we understand that in context when jesus said I should lose nothing We're talking about eternal life And so this is really what needs to be answered when we look at judas being lost because Why city preachers he was doing a video Refuting this that no actually jesus can lose some because he he lost judas So he was refuting john 6 with john 17. Okay So we have some fundamental problems here that need to be resolved in john 6 jesus says I should lose nothing regarding eternal life Yet in john 17 jesus did keep the disciples, but judas was lost. Well This is easy to reconcile because john 6 and to a lesser extent john 17 Already answers this conundrum. Okay that the the the passages that they're trying to wrestle against each other They already solve this problem for you So later in john chapter 6 after jesus has declared that he should lose nothing regarding those that he gives eternal life to Later in that chapter some people Did depart from him some of his disciples not the 12 left him And jesus reveals something very important about judas So between verses 64 to 66 Many disciples leave jesus and it's confirmed jesus knew from the beginning Who they were that believed not And who should betray him jesus knew that from the beginning. Okay And notice that he doesn't categorize them as those who believed but don't believe anymore It's who they were that believe not you believe not you you don't believe Okay, that's how he's categorizing them there. Okay And so those disciples walk no more with him and and jesus knows this from the beginning and also who should betray him Jesus knows from the beginning. Okay Now then in Versus 67 to 70 Jesus turns to the 12 will you also go away? Will you leave like these disciples are leaving now again just as we saw in matthew 19 Peter takes it upon himself to answer for the other 12 disciples. They don't all say this Peter is saying this on their behalf Lord to who shall we go you have the words of eternal life and we the 12 Peter speaking behalf of the 12 Are sure that you are the christ the son of the living god now Despite the fact that peter has spoken on behalf of all disciples Jesus confirms that one of the 12 Is a devil have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil not you will be a devil You is a devil. Okay, you are a devil And then the author john confirms that he spoke of judice is scarred. Okay, so you know when he says you are You are a devil He doesn't mean like peter when he said, you know get behind me satan to peter He doesn't mean that he's talking about judice is scarred because he knows from the beginning who should betray him. Okay So the author confirms who we're talking about here So there's a few things going on here when we bring john six together with john 13 john 17 and matthew 19 We see how the bible all sings together like you know all singing on the same song sheet Just because peter spoke on behalf of all the disciples we believe and are sure That does not mean that he represents all the 12 disciples Because of the fact that jesus pointed out in response to peter that one of you is a devil So just because peter said we are sure that you are the christ all of us That doesn't mean that it applied to judice. That doesn't mean that peter can speak on behalf of judice So with that in mind then there is no reason to believe That peter can collectively represent the other disciples in matthew 19 either So just because peter says we have forsaken all and followed you That does not mean that it applies to judice. That does not mean that judice has forsaken all to follow you Okay, peter can't speak on behalf of judice here Now then peter has already stated we have forsaken all we have followed you on behalf of other disciples But then notice what jesus says Jesus doesn't just say you in the regeneration. He said you Which have followed me well peter already said we have followed you So why does jesus need to add those words because he could have just said in response You in the regeneration of the sun, but he doesn't he peter says we have followed you jesus replies You which have followed me, okay? so then The jesus's words here would be completely redundant Unless there is somebody among them who has not followed jesus Okay, now bearing in mind that he is only speaking to his 12 disciples He's not speaking to the other disciples that departed in john six It's the 12 that he's talking to in this context. Okay So then just because jesus says that they will sit on 12 thrones That doesn't mean that judice is automatically included because even if judice is excluded from the throne That doesn't change the fact that the remainder of the disciples who have followed jesus Will still sit upon 12 thrones, but the 12th throne will be filled by somebody else. Okay Finally if we look at what happens shortly after matthew 19 You will see why it doesn't really make much sense To include judice in receiving the 12 thrones Aside from the fact point that we've already mentioned So in matthew 20 on the same conversation in the same context jesus gives a parable of the laborers in the vineyard And then he says to them in verse 17. We're going to jerusalem And we're taking jesus goes to jerusalem and takes the 12 with him We go to jerusalem that the son of man shall be betrayed So why are they going to jerusalem so that jesus can be betrayed Onto the chief priests and onto the scribes and they shall condemn him to death So immediately after the conversation when jesus has given those 12 thrones speaking to the 12 disciples They're immediately going to jerusalem so that judice can betray jesus So this conversation must have happened fairly recently prior to the conversation in john 13 So even when jesus issued the thrones this is leading up to the fact that he knows that he will be betrayed And he's going to jerusalem so that judice can betray him. Okay Now just a quick objection that somebody might throw why would jesus bother to say 12 thrones in matthew 19 If only 11 of the disciples would receive a place. Why not say 11 thrones? Well, should he have not indicated to his disciples that one of them would not receive a throne if what I say is true. Okay So well remember that there are 12 tribes to be judged and there's a throne for each tribe So somebody somewhere will have to sit in the 12 throne anyway if it's not judice somebody's going to have to sit there There are 12 thrones Jesus already commented that one of the disciples was false previously in john 6 But didn't reveal who it was now john himself when he wrote the gospel account revealed who it was But jesus didn't reveal it there and then he just said one of you is a devil And it's not evident from john 6 that the disciples further questioned him about this. Okay Now in matthew 19 jesus and the 12 were already headed to jerusalem anyway so that jesus could be betrayed And it was during his final moments with the disciples that jesus would be much clearer about there being a false disciple This was not revealed earlier in matthew 19 So if jesus would have revealed it in matthew 19 and said 11 thrones and there's 12 And they'd be like hang on a minute. What's going on here? Jesus would have aroused suspicion or questioning too early. Okay before you know john 13 And even in john 13 when jesus hinted who was the false disciple The other disciples still didn't grasp that it was judice anyway. Okay So then when we when we piece this all together you quickly realize How absurd it is really to assert that to assert that judice was included In the giving of the 12 thrones on the premise that he was saved eternally at the time because In john 13 and john 17, this is jesus speaking to his disciples and praying very shortly before his betrayal So this is one of the last things That jesus did before judice betrays jesus He signals to the other disciples that judice will betray him before he sends judice away to carry out this purpose And and in his prayer in john 17 before judice even betrays him jesus already points out that he's lost Jesus knows that judice is false before judice does the false thing. Okay Now in matthew 19 and 20 Jesus is taking the 12 disciples to jerusalem so that jesus can be portrayed Okay, while at the same time he's giving the 12 thrones in this same conversation while he's already going to be portrayed by judice So this must have also happened not too long before john 13 and john 17 because they're going to jerusalem to do this. Okay Now then in john chapter 6 This must have happened much early because jesus had more than 12 disciples in that chapter And many of them left him with only the 12 remaining and even back then so even before all of this Jesus already points out one of you is a devil knowing from the beginning Who betrayed would betray him? So if jesus already knows all the way back here at this point in time that judice was false. Okay And it jesus then issues the 12 thrones. He's already taking them to jerusalem so that judice can betray him It's utterly ridiculous To say that judice was initially saved and given a throne When jesus knows what judice is about to do and already know knew that long before this. Okay It's like i already know you're false here And i'm taking you to jerusalem here so that you can be false to me But i'm still going to give you a throne anyway for the five minutes between here and here that you actually saved I mean think about how ridiculous and absurd that is. Okay And the next point you'll say people will say then well, well, wait a minute Didn't jesus say here i should lose nothing. Okay, but then In john 17 none of them is lost but the son of perdition. So did jesus lose judice or not What's that all about? So that that's well, we'll just look at that next. Okay Well in john 17 where this sorry where this comes from We need to focus on verse 12 here. This is the crux of the matter. Okay But but this this statement is also important as well though in a way verse 15 that Jesus prays that they should be kept from the evil Now first of all, i want you to notice what jesus did not say. Okay Jesus did not say I have lost judice that that's not what he said Okay What jesus actually said was None of them is lost but judice. I couldn't say jesus lost judice. It just said none of them is lost but judice. Okay So there are actually two ways of reading this statement depending on how you look at it So if you read it this way, then yeah, it looks like judice jesus lost judice those that you gave me i've kept But then none of them is lost but the son of perdition, you know Kind of kind of lost the son of perdition there But if you actually read it like this, it looks like judice was already lost, which is consistent with what we've seen in other passages Those that you gave me i have kept and none of them is lost So i've kept those that you gave me i've not lost any of them. Okay But the son of perdition is lost now. Why is the son of perdition lost because i lost him? No, that's not what he says. It's so that scripture might be fulfilled judice was already lost so that scripture might be fulfilled. Okay Secondly As i mentioned earlier jesus is praying specifically for his disciples. He won't pray for all believers until verse 20 So with this in mind then we cannot even say from john 17 itself that judice lost his from his eternal life Only that he was really lost as a disciple Now when jesus said i should lose nothing he wasn't talking about his disciples He was talking about eternal life in anybody that received it. Okay Now later in that same chapter just as judice betrayed him well many of his others Many other disciples walk no more with him, but concerning their eternal life. It says Jesus knew from the beginning that who they were that believed on who should betray him So jesus knows it from the beginning So it's quite meaningless then to say that they were temporarily saved if jesus already knows they won't be in the end Anyway, okay, and thirdly you need to ask yourself this question What what does jesus's statement in john 17 12 even mean what is the purpose of jesus saying Those that you gave me i have kept If jesus has kept them and none of them is lost but the son of perdition Well, is he supposed to have kept his disciples from losing his eternal life? Is that even what what that means? Is he supposed to have kept his disciples from losing their office or discipleship? Or is he supposed to have kept his disciples from something else entirely? What is he supposed to have kept them from okay? Well, the answer is super simple because john is going to tell us in the next chapter All we have to do is go forward one chapter John's gospel is going to tell us So in john 18 in the first seven verses judas betrays jesus and his other jesus and his other disciples are surrounded. Okay jesus answered I have told you that i am he so jesus is revealing his identity among the others Therefore you seek me and and he says let these go their way So jesus petitions them to let his other 11 disciples go free Why why why well it's verse nine that the saying might be fulfilled Which he spoke of them which you gave me i have lost none That's the reason that's the very saying that he said in john 17 now. It's not an exact quote is is paraphrasing But you know you go to john 17 those that you gave me i have kept none of them is lost Well of them which you gave me i have lost none So by asking his disciples to go free and not being captured as jesus was being captured He's fulfilling his saying that i have kept those that you gave me okay So the context then is that jesus kept his disciples From being put to death like himself It has absolutely nothing to do with preserving their eternal life Because if they would have you know being crucified with jesus well presumably would have had eternal life anyway Is keeping them from the earthly death that he's about to face himself Now jesus successfully fulfilled this commitment None of the 11 disciples were lost in this context. None of them were arrested. They didn't suffer the same fate that jesus suffered Now judas died by his own means so judas wouldn't have even suffered this same fate as the other disciples anyway You know jesus didn't need to make this commitment over judas because there was no prospect of judas being arrested And put to death alongside jesus that prospect might have exit might have happened for the other 11 disciples Which is why jesus had to appeal for them to go to go free So jesus did not need to petition them to save judas judas was not facing the same risk Jesus fulfilled his commitment to not lose the other 11 to suffering the same punishment as himself judas suffered his own fate But jesus didn't lose him because judas didn't need jesus's protection in the events of john 18 anyway Yet jesus still describes judas as being lost. Why because he was always lost. Okay judas was never not lost He was always lost. Okay So concluding that point then we can't say that juda jesus lost judas We can only say that judas was lost And even supposing that jesus did lose judas according to john 17. We can only say that jesus Lost him as a disciple or lost it to an early death not not from eternal salvation at least in the context of john 17 anyway So comparing this with john 6 many other disciples were lost But it was confirmed that they never believed because jesus already knew that they would walk no more with him But regarding those that jesus has given eternal life to it's those people that jesus says i will lose nothing jesus is not obligated to fulfill that commitment to non-believing Disciples that do not have eternal life. He has no obligation to fulfill that promise and jesus jesus kept his disciples from suffering the same fate as himself He succeeded in fulfilling this but judas was not subject to that fate anyway. Okay So To bring this issue to a close then what about judas falling as described in ax and this is ax 125 where it says judas by transgression fell that he might go to his own place and obviously to fall You assume that he started somewhere to fall from that that place Well, this is quite simple. All we have to do is read what judas fell from this isn't complicated at all notice that the passage does not say judas fell from salvation or eternal life or judas fell from brotherhood or sainthood or judas fell from election Doesn't say anything like that. The passage does say he fell from this ministry And apostleship. Okay, and they they cast the lots and you know, it was given to methias There are lots of saved believers who didn't have this ministry and apostleship. So this verse Is not relevant to judas's salvation whatsoever All right So if ax 1 was saying that judas fell from eternal life and lost salvation Well, he couldn't be replaced by methias in the next verse because being saved onto eternal life Is not a competition. Okay It's specific to every individual. It's not an office that can be replaced So methias was chosen to replace the ministry and the apostleship of judas We would then presume although, you know, maybe don't know for sure But we would presume that he was given the 12th throne in heaven Which doesn't undermine that jesus intended for the other other 11 disciples in matthew 19 Which you which have followed me shall sit upon 12 thrones. That's that's not undermined in any way whatsoever Because there are 12 thrones. Okay So let's let's finish our study of judas with our findings Jesus always knew that judas was false from the very beginning Jesus foresaw that judas was false would betray him long before he confirmed the reward of the 12 thrones And even when he awarded the 12th throne He was already on his way to Jerusalem so that judas could betray him So it's you know ridiculous to say that i'm giving you the 12 thrones for you Know the couple of days that you're going to be saved until you're going to betray me two days later It's just absurd Judas was chosen as a disciple Even while being false from the beginning Why would jesus choose a false disciple to preach and cast out devils so that scripture could be fulfilled? What the bible tells us Jesus confirmed that one of his disciples would betray him to fulfill scripture in john 13 Jesus confirmed that judas was lost to fulfill scripture in his prayer in john 17 And although we didn't cover matthew 27 9 in this study and that's about the 30 piece of silver It confirms that judas's betrayal fulfills old testament prophecy prophesied long before jesus came to this earth all you know long before judas was born either And although jesus didn't mention fulfilling prophecy in matthew 2018 He did it was fulfilling what he already told the disciples that would happen earlier In matthew 16 where he told them that he must go to be betrayed. Okay Jesus did not lose judas and even if he did it was not in the context of eternal life Now judas was lost as a disciple Or he was he was lost from the promise of you know being kept to not being killed because obviously he did die in a field Whereas the other disciples were preserved So you could say he was lost in that aspect if you're going to say that jesus even lost him But he doesn't say that jesus lost him just that he was lost But regarding eternal life. He was always lost jesus already knew he was a betrayer. Okay judas did not fall from eternal life He fell from office of ministry and apostleship because this office was handed over to somebody else Eternal life cannot be handed over to somebody else. Okay, and so when you see all this in its full scope It's really concerning when you hear these arguments such as jesus lost judas like what jesse merrell and why city preachers are saying because What they basically have to say then Is that jesus is a liar or a failure? And jesus said regarding eternal life If he gives somebody eternal life that the father has given to him. I should lose nothing. Okay You know Is jesus going to do what he should because they'll try and pick on the fact that it said should instead of will But then like the next verse gives a definitive anyway And if jesus should do something is he not going to do it? But then the bible does not say that jesus lost judas Only that judas was lost And not in the context of eternal life. So what's their response? jesus lost judas So either jesus lied or he failed when he said i should lose nothing regarding eternal life These men have to make judas or jesus a liar or a failure Basically to prop up their doctrine Instead of just being Instead of just repenting have been a wicked false prophet And so, you know that these guys want to tell you to repent of all of your sins to be saved Well, will they lie about what the bible says about judas? They've lied about this And you know They're calling jesus either a liar or a failure for losing Judas when he said that i should lose nothing and the bible doesn't even say that he lost judas Okay, so, you know these men are not saved by their own standards Okay, they haven't repented of all of their sins. All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire