 Hey coach, I was just from out of the game, then I got a couple of jingle things. Pinyon, it looked like he made it, he slowed the returner down on that breakout to help with give Troy a chance to get back. Yes he did. Unfortunately, we didn't have the best direction in coverage. We had to miss tackle, but Troy did an awesome job of retracing and we always talk about great plays made from great effort and you can see his acceleration finishing on the football and giving our defense a chance to go back out there and play ball. So we learned from those mistakes and we have a great opportunity to get better this week versus Cincinnati. What did that show about Troy's athleticism perhaps? I think that's one of the things that people look really tired of. He'd go back to him in high school and college, he played multiple positions, but the biggest thing that stood out on that play was his effort. You saw some guys they could just turn around and just run to the ball but you could see his intent to get to the ball carrier in his effort. Yes he does have speed and acceleration, but if you don't have the effort then that kind of goes as a wash on that play. So the biggest thing that stood out was his effort on that play. How far did he come from? Did y'all watch that on the field? Did y'all count the yards? I don't count the yards on that. We just make sure we can make the tackle. You can do that though. You can check that out for me. I'm going to do it, yeah. I'm going to see where he's going. Appreciate you. How does Avery against good returns look like he was a step off from going and it looks like the Bengals, I'm fearing Hubert, the same times aren't that good. Might have to use some opportunities for you. Well I'll say this about Cincinnati. They do a great job on all their phases on special teams. It starts with Darren Simmons, especially his coordinator. He's been there for about 20 years. He's played the game, he's a punter coming out, Juco and playing at Kansas and he's been a special teams coach ever since. He does a great job with all their guys and when you talk about their kicking and punting, particularly their punting, Hubert does a great job of directional punting. So they're trying to create manageable space for the returners and then their gunners, you know, Trey Flowers and Stanley Morgan, they do a great job of winning downfield and coverage, forcing fair catches or making plays on the football. So it's going to be a big challenge for us this week when it comes to their punter, their pun protection and then their gunners and coverage. And it's our job to make sure that we're, again, swinging at the right pitches, making sure that we're returning the right footballs, making the right decisions, but first and foremost, make sure we have the ball in the next play for our offense, D-Led. I know it's only, it's still a relatively small sample size, but 18 yards per pun return, that's pretty good. What's working well in that operation? I think it starts, one, it starts with our coaching staff. You know, Coach Stephen King and Coach Steve Hoffman, they do a great job of, you know, helping me out when it comes to understanding the game plan, understanding what we're going against, and our players, first and foremost, they do a great job of, you know, understanding the game plan and then going out there and being able to execute. We have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to the pun return game plan, when it comes to returning the ball. And we talk about not only is Avery the playmaker out there, we have 10 other guys that are out there, we're trying to force a bad kick to create less hang time for the punter to give more room for our returner to operate with or blocking at the line of scrimmage. You know, when I first started coaching, my first couple years in coaching college football, I coached D-Line, and D-Line really helped me as a coach because it really starts with the line of scrimmage. If we're able to win at the line of scrimmage, then it helps us later on the play. So if we can win early in that down, when we talk about punt return, it only sets up more yards for our returner. And we want to just gain first downs for our offense. If we get able to take a first down and gain one or two first downs for our offense when it comes to that, then we could give our offense less room to work with and then that percentage of scoring creates a higher percentage for our offense. That makes sense. What did you guys like about Penyon? You had some choices it felt like bringing in another punter. What were the things that drew you down? First and foremost, his leg strength, athletic ability, his accuracy when he talked about punt direction, being able to hold, being able to kick off. He's not just a punter. He could kick off. He could actually hit field goals. He's done it in games before. And he's a leader both on and off the field. And he's just an overall human being, good person, leader of men. So all those things we took into account and consideration when it came to looking at who we wanted to bring in as a punter. And he's been doing a great job ever since. So we're very happy to have him in the building. After what you guys went through last year, you had so many punters over the course of the year. Just to have that stability, hasn't that been an asset for you over the first 16? Oh, for sure. Without a doubt. It helps create continuity in that room when it comes to all three of our specials being able to operate at a high level, whether we're talking about the punt operations, snap and punning, or even field goal when we started to involve Ku into the mix when it comes to that. And then with our kickoff team. So you can see that, you know, having that continuity and having that stability in that room with the punning position really helps us on multiple phases. Going back to bringing in here, how much of that decision was having a guy that could kick off and how much of that went into maybe saving, you know, kind of keeping Ku's leg fresh for field goals? I mean, there's always consideration. We're always looking for the best valuable option for our team when it comes to the punning position. First and foremost, we're looking for a punner. If he can kick off, when we're looking like in that offseason phase, that's a bonus for us. Because we know that Ku can kick off and he has the ability to help us. And he's done it years prior. So having a guy that can kick off is a bonus for us because we know that Ku equals points. That's a phrase that you've... A phrase? No. Just that's what he kicks field goals. Field goals equal points. That's part of offense for us. You can turn that into a shirt though, huh? All good. Anything else? This was maybe very minute out of my head, but with Theron Hall, like we play a whole bunch more defensively now, how does that change maybe some of your rotation on kick coverage? It doesn't really. We're going to play the best available guys out there. If they can help our team, you've seen Lorenzo Carter. He's been out there in punt return helping us out. Troy, even though he started on defense last week, he was one that made the tackle on punt coverage. So we're going to play the best available guys. We still have an understanding too of like, we don't want to wear guys down when they're playing a lot of reps on offense or defense. But if it's a fourth down play and we're able to... I'll always look at it like this. You know, defense, if the offense is going for it, it's a got to have a situation. Well, it just so happened upon the ball to us. We still feel like in our room, that's a got to have a situation. But if it doesn't happen, we have a great opportunity to get the ball and turn that play into offense. So whether it's a defensive back, an outside backer, you know, a fullback running back, we're going to play the best guys out there. Because the most important thing is being in the present and winning that down, that current down that we're in. So I do have a couple of other Ohio questions for you. Oh my goodness. Well, your Heisberg coach is retiring. He is. That's a question. You know, the best way I can answer that is I had him not just as a football coach, but I had him as a teacher and he taught Chaucer Shakespeare. And he, you know, senior year you have it. So you think, God, you got your high school coach. It's your senior year. This will be easy. Didn't say ever talk about football. He was a teacher first. He's the best I've ever seen in terms of being around young people, a high school age and being able to get all of them motivated without, he's not a very big man. And guys used to tape record his speeches at halftime or before the game and like listen to him on the way in. He's a powerful speaker, great with the English language. But he had a way about him that obviously he's had a ton of success for a reason, but he means a great deal not just to me, but really anybody who's ever played there or was in any of his classes. And I respect the man so much just because of, he put the person first, you know, he taught you a lot. But I obviously try to carry forth some of the things that he instilled even though, you know, I had no idea at that point, you know, I would go into coaching. But he was a great role model. I know he's affected in a very positive way a tremendous amount of people. And I was just grateful and honored to play for him. You mentioned just a few different things there. Is there one memory for you on whether football one or a Shakespeare class one that stands out kind of more? Yeah, I mean we, the memory probably was at the, unfortunately the last game of the year we're playing Kent McKinley for the, in the final four. And we were up I think 19-6 in the fourth and we ended up losing that game. And obviously it was a senior year. A lot of us waited our turn at that time. I think only one player in my four years or maybe two started two years on varsity. So we all just waited our turn to play one year. And obviously that game didn't go the way we wanted to and a lot of us were devastated. And the way he was able to pull us together in that locker room to a bunch of 16, 17, 18 year olds who were devastated, it was a huge impact because of the way he was able to emotionally connect with you but also give you clarity that life's not essentially over and there's so many things to look forward to. And just in that moment of where you're feeling the worst he was able to kind of point you in the right direction. And again, I know there's a ton of guys that would stand up in my situation right now to talk about him that would talk the exact same way. I still have a relationship with him today and it has nothing to do with football. It really doesn't. And I think anybody who would speak of him would speak of his character first. How did he influence your coaching? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, he really, without knowing, just the way he carried himself, he treated everybody with respect. He treated the opponent with a tremendous amount of respect. Always talked about them in the highest regard to us. Never downplayed them. You know, if anything built him up and then you always, after games, and we were, look, we were a pretty successful high school to his credit, but after the game, it was always about the opponent and showing respect to him after. And, you know, obviously you fight on the football field but after he was just, he's a man of respect. And I try to, the best I can, tremendous shoes to even try to even fill, but to try to go along those lines. Man, you got me all emotional. We got it? Okay. There we go. Now you're rolling now. Yeah, we got something. Who knows what I'm going to say next? Anecdotally, it feels... Oh, there you go. Look, I went to a Catholic high school. I didn't say I passed all the class with flying colors, man. God, Lee. Anecdotally, it feels like over the course of several years, what used to constitute two-minute offense or hurry-up offense has condensed. How is, in your mind as a coach, has the timeframe we need to actually try to drive change? Yeah, I think if you look at games in general, everybody has a two-minute offense, correct? Everybody has a chance to get on the ball. They work situational football, but really when you look at it, every situation is different, you see how many times you actually get on the ball and run a play without a stop at your clock? It's not as many times as you kind of imagine, right? So there's incompletions, right? Obviously there's timeouts without a bounce, right? So the succession in which you're on the ball and running that hurry-up, right, differs. But the reality is, it's how you attack the two-minute and really how you manage the clock. Obviously, it's everybody's intention to manage it the best of their ability. But I also think when you learn from a lot of teams and find yourself about how things could have been done differently or if it's done well, right? Why was it done well? I think those are some of the better evaluations of critiquing one's own self or your team or others to learn from when you look at those situations and how teams handle the clock. And then how do they use their timeouts? Would you have banged the timeout there? Would you have called something different? Did you love the call? Why did you love the call? I mean, it's actually a fascinating study in terms of looking at ourselves. But it definitely is defined differently because when you think about too many, you think, oh, it's hurry, let's go, let's go, let's go. The reality is there's more stop at your clock than one might think in those situations. And we still call it two minutes, but it feels like 45 seconds. Somebody, I forget this week, they were banging timeouts so they could get the ball back with 45 seconds and essentially ran a fully-formed drive to get a field goal to 10. You look at the AFC Buffalo, Kansas City last year, right? I mean, that was, what, 13 or something? Yeah, I mean, again, I think what's been, you know, again, you go through situations and you watch how games are so closely contested. And then you start to point out, pick out things of, you know, what was the difference makers? And really it comes down to how you handle before half, end of game, those situations in which you allow yourself the best chance, right, to give yourself the best chance to go score or prevent a score. And I think that's why situational football, I know that term gets thrown out a lot, but the reality is when you really look at how these games are played in the NFL, they're so close. The team's offense or defense or staffs that manage it the best, and players, more importantly, out there understanding the situations, manage the best, you know, usually have the outcome that they desire. You talked a little bit about what you're talking about, what he's been able to do, because it seemed like that. That block is what kind of freed up that whole team. Sure. I think, you know, when you talk about Kyle, or really this has been kind of what we talked about with his offense, is that, you know, guys are asked to do all different things to help the other 10 guys. There's no difference in that play that she pointed out. Kyle, as long as he's been playing with Kyle, as long as everybody else is doing their job, as well as other things that happen in the game, you go back and you watch offenses and you talk about us, the reality is, and I know I've said it, I'm sure coachments are the same thing. I mean, it does take all 11, and then there is no, well, he can't do this or can't do that. The reality is, obviously, you want to put your players in the best position, but we also don't try to put limits on them. Obviously, you're trying to keep the defense as long as those things occur. The reality is, that was one of 11 players out there that did their job in that play, that led to a successful play, and again, that's obviously what we're trying to do every play. He's talked a lot about little things and small things. What does that mean to you in terms of what he's been able to accomplish this year? You're speaking to Kyle? You know me here. I don't like speaking for others or anything else. What I can say is, for all players, Kyle included, a level of professionalism, not just the physical. I think that's the one thing, that when you see it on film or TV or at the stadium, you're watching it, sure, you see splash plays and everything else. The reality is, when you guys have the luxury to come out to practice, and we've talked about this, the first thing we do in practice is go back to those things. You're never mastering the fundamental as you're constantly working on them. And I think like him and others, those are the goals each and every day, so obviously it shows up on Sunday. Was that anecdotally the right response? Was I using that in the wrong term? Okay, it's making sure. Yeah. The spelling of that would be a little bit... I shouldn't have messed in the Charleston Shakespeare, now I'm going to be quoting things of that nature, yeah. Yeah. Let's zoom him in and see, to help me there, phone a friend. Yeah. When I Google it, I'll let you know. Arthur and even Marcus talk about how this week their team was taking what the defense was giving them. And I'm kind of mapping that onto the fact that I think there was like 16 drop backs, 14 pass attempts in the game. Do you see NFL defenses as just being more vulnerable to like a power running game like you guys are able to execute? Or is that more just the strength of the team? Well, I think that's a good question. I think, and I've said this before, I think each game represents a new challenge for us. We obviously stylistically, forget run or pass, stylistically there's a way that obviously we want to play football. And we strive for that each week. It just doesn't happen. We can't say well last week we played physical and we ran it, well next week it's automatically going to happen. It's just before it happens out there in the practice field. The reality is what we're trying to do like anybody on offense, vice versa on defense is you're trying to attack and give your players the best opportunity to be successful. But you're also trying to take advantage of something you find schematically that you think maybe you know could be your advantage. The reality is though it's you watch us and you watch in general us play. It's more about the intent the speed in which we want to play plays, no doubt their plays I got you. But there's also a style and brand in which we're trying to represent each and every week. And again we're trying to accomplish that some weeks better than others and when it doesn't work or it's not working we obviously try to fix that. But I think it starts there first about how we want to play and obviously there's X and O and strategy involved but it's more about the intent in which we want to play football. Do you have nothing? Well I mean you're tweeting you're texting right now so obviously I don't know where you're at. I was looking up to see no Cleveland questions, no. I was looking up to see who's the up Oli look Joe Pickens or David Grohn all time Cleveland I thought you'd bring me up a little bit there man. Oli I think you know some people. Do you let's kill me on Twitter already? No I'm not playing against Oli. Yeah how about that right? You're your Twitter right? I'm not. No. No no no. Well no I did have something on the video and we were all doing a tribute and so forth but you know what are some of the you know issues that you all face with the Bengals defense? Yeah I mean I think look obviously they're not in our division it's the first time playing them in a while for me when you put the film on what I think they do a really good job of in the defense of staff and there's a lot of guys in that staff with a lot of experience and I think they do a really good job of is they keep constantly mixing coverage front structures they make it hard they don't just line up and say alright here you go they're able to adjust late in the snap count they're able to apply pressure in all different ways he's aggressive in the play calling and it's one of those things where he's got those guys in a certain style of football defensively they do a great job of keeping you out of the end zone they do a great job of taking away some of your advantages and by constantly mixing what he does he keeps you out of balance I got nothing but respect for what they put on film and what they put on film for not just this year but obviously what they're trending to in the years led up to this year and again it's going to be a tremendous challenge especially when you don't have a ton of familiarity that obviously is going to be hostile and so for us the scheme is going to be important of how they play us and how we're going to play them and we're going to constantly have to make adjustments as the game goes on because they do a great job of that and the safety is how I thought it was just one deal follow up so any kind of counts is one okay one beat anecdotally right there that's a how they play back in there I think when you talk about both those safeties and obviously Hilton you've got the corners this secondary is very good they do a good job of disguising but they all do a great job of coming downhill and it's one of those things where we expect them to be physical there's no doubt about it they put that on film it's not that they have to talk their guys up they're a physical unit and the front is the exact same way the backers do a good job of playing out the front structure so again we anticipate them being very physical in this game and we obviously like I said we have to take and make sure we make adjustments as the game goes on a lot of level of personnel as that comes from that tree are they similar or are they that similar similar personnel I don't know if they necessarily are similar everybody's got some carryover from everybody in the league because basically if you see something that you're not stopping you're going to see it from the next team whether they used to run it or not that's football yeah there's some similarities but I wouldn't say it's like verbatim that's the exact same offense that we're facing so is there any carryover from your plan that way to what you think just carryover every week there's always what we call staples there's always things in your call sheet that are going to be in there every week they're staples they're in there all the time and then what you've got to do is look at the formations you get the amount of motion that you get the speed the tempo of the game are they going to be a no huddle team are they going to be a huddle team are they quick on the ball there's just all those things that you take into account then that kind of go to the next group things that you do on defense and personnel you know they got a special receiver they got special two receivers or a special tight end it's all those sorts of things so there's certain things that you're always going to call and then there's always the other half that's going to be specific to that particular team because of personnel and all those things they talked about being true Casey not being there really compact what you're going to be able to do defense with well I don't know because I'll have to wait and see how the guy that that replaces in plays so like I say there's certain things that I don't care who's in there this is what you're going to call that every week and then there's other things that it does make a difference you don't want to put depends on who the guy is also has he played some has he played well is going to be his first game playing all those kind of things take into account what you may want to do when you lose a corner or when you lose anybody how would it seem like you guys really happy with Darren during camp what is he doing to put himself in a position where you all have confidence in him just practice well and play well I mean we played him some last year different spots and then you know we spot played him this year you know everybody's kind of concerned every time you see somebody go in the game that you think because the other guy isn't playing well or something it's not the case at all the good thing about Darren going in the game earlier games and just coming in for a few plays for Casey or somebody got him ready to play last week so it's not like the first time then you know when he went in last week wasn't like the first time that he had been in all year he'd been in same way like when we played Troy everybody was worried about well is Richon hurt or is Michael hurt or somebody else no you want to play him so that the first time that you play him it's not like the heat of the battle or they're starting so I got total confidence in Darren Hall you mentioned Troy when Mike comes back whether this week or not all of a sudden you've got I'm guessing at least three linebackers you feel really good about does that change what you're able to maybe do and does that add to some of what you could potentially call maybe because how technically how did Troy play he saw the production I thought he played well that one tackle on the screenplay because they had some blockers out in front and that could have potentially been a little bigger play than it was and he just sifted through there and made the tackle so he played well I thought he played very well for you know first time out starting I say I do and his first name back really well last week just having him back the whole time not that I'm not disappointed in Michael Ford or D. Alford in any way but just having Isaiah back as a mature presence and mature in what I'm saying is experience not those other two guys are very mature too and play hard but just those guys like you just Isaiah's been there before and I thought he was playing really well a year ago at Nickley it was a kind of nickel that I was used to with Logan Ryan and those guys that I'd had in the past that I could do a lot with so when we lost him you guys saw we had a different nickel on almost every game somebody tried it and it just never was quite you didn't have the cohesiveness having him back last week even in practice just the communication the verbal part of it was just so much different he has been it's really remarkable my hats off to him because not only did he rehab his hind end off to get back the thing of it is is that he didn't miss anything like in meetings so it wasn't like okay when now he's back now we gotta kinda make sure he's up to snuff on all the calls I mean he went out there and communicated like he'd been there all year that's a credit to him I mean it was really nice having him out there and I thought he played well y'all have ten take the ways in six games I know each one is different but why do you think you guys have been effective taking the ball? It's not the scheme I'm not thinking up anything or doing anything that makes the difference is I think our guys are playing faster whenever you play faster and there's not a lot of thinking involved which makes you play faster guys are getting kinda used to a lot of the stuff that we do and the faster you play the bigger the hits the more you got guys closer to the ball I mean it's not rocket science it's really guys that in generally in the past if they have big numbers in turnovers they usually have a pretty fast team or at least playing fast it doesn't really mean anything by the clock I've seen a lot of four or six guys play very fast I've seen a lot of four or three guys that didn't play fast so you know what the guy runs in a combine how he plays football are two different things in training camp you gave us a passion speech play on you would call it about not wanting to be media or not wanting to be very similar to the defenses you had doing with the Baltimore at this point how close do you feel like maybe you are to having that here? I never compare them they're all different a couple of those teams you talked about are very very veteran teams I mean you start looking at guys I had at New England and Baltimore I mean they'd been there forever they were very very veteran teams this is not a real veteran team this is still a very young team I compare them a little bit more if I was going to compare them to probably the one I had in Tennessee which is a little bit younger and Rashan was younger at that time and all that stuff and we made it we did well we could have been better but we still got a long way to go we got a long way to grow but I like the attitude of them they bought in I think they are trying to do everything they can I told somebody this morning all you can ask the players is know what to do and go as hard as you can go and if you get those two things you're obviously physically gifted enough where you wouldn't be in the NFL that's all 53 guys on 32 teams are gifted football players or they wouldn't be there all of them that's why the league is so different but the difference sometimes is just how smart playing smart and then playing 100 mile an hour and giving an effort that to me is usually the difference once in a while the ball bounces funny but one of the things I like about our teams I think they play hard I think we're trying to play hard and trying to do the right things so it's all I can ask of them sometimes the other guy's better sometimes he's not which tells you each time of the clock has that been how has that benefited you guys when they are having kind of the sustained drive that they've had? well anytime they're taking time off the clock that's a benefit to the defense anytime you get a good running team it's usually going to bode well for the defense because you're just not on the field as long but one of the reasons sometimes we're on the field too long is we still got to do better on third down we still got too many third and shorts and that kind of stuff and like last week I think really going into the last two drives they had 210 or 20 yards or something like that somebody told me and then I mean they got 130 yards in the last two drives with no points and chewing the clock off so I bless you you know so I just you know somebody said well you had a 19 drive yeah that it resulted in no points in the eight minutes gone thank you so in the context of that Arthur talks a lot about how statistics can be misleading and how so how have you how do you approach defensive statistics in terms of how you in your evaluation of your unit what do you look at points as long as we got one more than they got we went points what else is there I mean I know we're ranked way down in the league who cares as far as yardage so should I because of my ego last week then what there's eight minutes to go in the game they got to go on the one yard line should I now try to pressure them to see if I can increase my stats as a defensive coordinator or am I going to try to call this game they had to go twice they had to score twice I got to take clock off if they do score I need the clock to be gone I don't want to blitz somebody misses a tackle and the guy goes 80 yards and now it's a seven point game I could care less Jets game over in London remember the same thing could care less we gave a bunch of yardage at the end of the game I really could care where we end up in total yardage at the end of the year could care less where I want to be is good in the red zone good on third down and good in take ways good in the score those are the important facts because if you're good in the red zone you're probably pretty good in the score and if you're good in the score means you're winning a lot of games and then third down kind of leads to that too because it gets you off the field but those are so much more than total yardage did you have to ensure as a coach is that a lesson that you had to learn or have you always felt that way in terms of not letting your ego get off I think you'll learn it because when you're younger your ego always gets in your way it gets it because you want to oh hey I'm leading the league and defense or I'm leading this it's just it comes a point in time when you really kind of realize that really doesn't matter really doesn't and it happened for me a long time ago because I've been doing it for so long but I'm sure early on you know I was always checking the box to see where we were ranked defensively to see if make sure we were in the top 10 or something like that and especially in college I'd really did that but you know it's just it's as you get older you just realize the only thing that really matters is the score that's what matters go back to your point that you were making earlier about experience Jalen Hawkins was talking about Eric Harris I think on Monday to Dave Archer and you were saying that you refer to him as a man of God who's kind of more of a personal thing but also just that he's learned so much from him on how to study how to take care of his body how important are our players like the Eric Harris Dean Marlowe's obviously another guy that these guys you know kind of refer to constantly in helping some of these younger players there and all very that's why I mentioned I think a couple weeks ago I remember one time I mentioned Dean and Eric about you know it's rare to have two backup safeties that can also put their egos aside because they played in this league and started and all of a sudden now they're giving that job up to younger guys but they're still minoring them and you know there's not like well I'm not going to tell him anything because I want his job well yeah they want his job they want to play but they're also team guys and they also have experience they can tell them things that they've seen or how they've done it in the past those those things are invaluable you know Isaiah was that way when he was hurt with the other Nichols I mean he didn't sit there and say I'm not going to tell you anything because I'm going to try to fight and get my job back he'd sit there he sits right beside those guys and they'd be asking him questions and he'd be telling them it's always great to have that that kind of group with you whether they're starters or whether they're backups it's just it always helps the younger players and trust me it's sometimes I've gone to players and asked them to say something to players because it's always different coming from play if I'm a player coming from another player then it is the coach the coach is always on my butt you know sometimes it goes through one ear and out the other it's like when your parents told you what to do you kind of went through one ear and out the other but if somebody else told you what to do then it meant something you know if you're a parent you understand that what I'm talking about if I tell my kid something somebody else tells them uncle tells them oh yeah we should be doing that it's just it's you know it's the same way with coaches you know if the media tells me how to do something it's probably going to go through one ear and out the other if another coach tells me something then I'm actually going to listen to them so but that's why when those guys speak it means something when Jarrett Grady speaks to the D-line it probably means more than coming from me that's they're invaluable if Mike comes back this week does he get to read dot back or is that mostly speaking back how have you seen Jayla Hawkins and Richard Grady's progression over with these first seven weeks well I think they both have improved quite a bit they're becoming much more verbal taken charge much more and the good thing about those two guys is they're very good students in the classroom like I say they don't take anything for granted I'll tell you coach and I were hard on Richie last year we were hard on him and I told him someday call Brandon Maryweather and see what I was like his rookie when he played safety for me said you know we see so much potential in you we're not going to be easy on you we're not going to allow you to make a mistake and those guys are really taking it at the heart and I think they're both verbally they're far above where they were last year they can still be better but they're a lot better than they were and progressing all the time both very conscientious really like both of them