 Hella black episode 150, you know, I'm saying I know my math was off on the last episode, but I got it, right You know, luckily we're gonna have some math majors potentially on this Episode to get us right, you know, I'm saying so hella black episode 150 big milestone huge milestone We're gonna go 50 more get to that 200 inshallah, you know another hundred after that Another hundred after that, you know saying might have some gray hairs by then. I already got a couple coming Here we are, you know I'm saying Appreciate all the support make sure you go to our YouTube, you know I'm saying and go subscribe To our YouTube YouTube comm slash hell black pie. We need to get them views and Subscribers up, you know I'm saying especially if we're gonna do these videos Y'all should tap it so as we put a lot of work into it Jacqueline our editor puts a lot of work into the visual aspect as well in terms of like when we talking and bringing certain facts Up and whatnot. So make sure you go to our YouTube sound cloud patreon Spotify tap in rock with us very small team, you know, very small team of folks making this happen You're looking at the producer and the writers Outside of Jacqueline's doing all the editing, you know, we don't have Grants won't have government support in us. We got the people know It's with all the guys y'all The powers with the people go to our patreon pull out some of them people's dollars to support the work that we got going on You know I'm saying, you know, it goes to real work day in and day out So appreciate all the support of all the people who do support us day in and day out, you know The support doesn't go unnoticed, you know, so Appreciate it. Especially I know people Don't always got a lot, but they still able to support us So I definitely appreciate that support because y'all don't have to support us. So thank y'all, you know, we got a Really important episode in store with a couple of guests, you know Both a mentor to me and Delincy Dr. Loggins left, you know, y'all have heard him on this podcast before There's been some things going on in terms of Stanford Doing what a university does to black to Muslim professors, you know So we got a good episode in store to talk about some of the facts and ways that people can come come and support Yeah, a lot of the stuff that's been going on too that from what I've been seeing is Attack on a marriage character In a way that is just really bolstered on lies and paints them in a picture that allows for the Institution to justify Their lack of principle moral and ethical Treatment of him, right? It's the same thing. We see media and institutions do all the time where if you can dehumanize Running to run a person's character into the ground then it allows the people to become Comfortable to become okay with Any treatment you have to them and that's what we're seeing, you know, what's been happening in centuries? We're seeing it happening happening happen to play out in Present day and we see the media what they do, you know Malcolm tells us about the media and how it's a very powerful entity And they will use lies and spread the lies so that the lie becomes quote-unquote truth and Perception of certain people in the public, you know, so it's been an attack on a mirror Injustice that's been happening to Dr. Loggins, you know, so we got two guests. We're gonna, you know on the ground Working on the situation organizing around the situation because anytime something does happen to us, you know We always have a community, you know, we always might feel like we're in a situation of Disempowerment, but when we say power to the people in the community gets behind the cause that's where the true power is, you know, so I want to give a warm welcome to our guests. How y'all doing? Appreciate y'all joining us on Sex short notice and in the middle of the school day Can y'all tell us your names age Where y'all from what y'all studying and what prestigious university that y'all is at I'm Jaden Clark. I study mathematics and comparative studies and race and ethnicities With the potential minor in computer science. So we got a lot going on there, but I'll explain that later. I'm from DC Um, currently I go to school in California. I stand for university My name is Milo Golding. I'm currently 19 years old studying bioengineering on the pre-med track I'd stand for university and I'm originally from Lexington, Lexington, Kentucky. I'm happy to be here So so pre-med mathematicians, you know, I'm saying new African scholars Got some geniuses on this podcast Y'all being with us To start Y'all you tell us how you were introduced to doc Dr. Loggins and you know the impact that he's had on y'all personally Yeah, so I remember like so Stanford has a quarter system So it's three quarters of fall winter and spring quarter And there's an introductory like writing a rhetoric class called college And then like Dr. Loggins taught like sections for that class and I remember being introduced to them in spring quarter and I was just so intrigued because like Many of the professors and faculty on campus don't represent like who I am and who we as black students are So having that space was really interesting to me So I was enrolled in the college section and like Dr. Loggins section wasn't even my section But I still myself and Jada included we pulled up to Dr. Loggins section like outside of that And that was when I first introduced was introduced to Dr. Loggins And I remember walking in not knowing what to expect But like after going out like after you know hearing the discussions that took place and being part of those discussions I realized what a profound impact, you know Dr. Loggins has on the community and just on me and Relations like how we contextualize our identity and you know making space for us as black students on a PWI for sure Absolutely, um in the way that I got introduced to Dr. Loggins With someone on orthodox, but at the same time it is kind of typical. So I'll go like this It's kind of like a underground I don't even know how I want to describe it like underground telecommunication in terms of like how black students Underground railroad up there So it's like, you know Even I never had a class with him. I hadn't heard his name prior to someone getting me hip, right? So someone comes up to me. It's like, oh, I got the issue really, you know, a flood to his class Professor that I think you would really like and that tends to be the case So it's it's not strange for you to walk in their section, right? See the people that are in his class and then see like 15 other people not enrolled in his class that are just there listening him Speak and I was one of those 15 and I think that through meeting him I Continuously made like I blocked out a section of my schedule Made time just to go to his lecture. Obviously, I didn't get units from it Then add anything to my GPA, but it added a lot to my character add a lot to The spaces in which I could feel like I could be unapologetically myself I've never seen someone that kind of looked like me talk like me and was from a similar socio-economic background as I In that kind of space, especially not coming here That was I got even further removed from a professor that or a teacher that would have looked like that So I think he really Kind of embodies a lot of parts of my identity that I'm not usually used to seeing in that space Yeah, especially y'all being that was y'all freshman class, right? Yes So your first year hearing about the class, you know, I'm saying with all these Distractions especially being in your first year y'all was choosing to go pull up to the class You know I'm saying so I think that definitely speaks to the Environment that Dr. Loggins was fostering. Can you speak a little bit more to like how it made you feel being in that classroom? Especially y'all being away from home, you know, maybe for the first time and yeah, how was that? All right, I can go first. I think I want to talk about the very first class that I had With Dr. Loggins when I pulled up so I come through obviously he doesn't know me I don't know him, but there's a lot of people in the class who I already know and are expecting me to show He writes on the board Sausages on a grill. I think that's exactly the quote he went around the classroom and asked every single person to describe like what that reminds you of and Because of the kind of environment that he creates in his class a lot of people are excited They know that he's trying to evoke something Like personally use something that you know speaks towards you So when it got to me, I was like, oh, yeah, like that reminds me will cook out You know hot legs on a grill like all this other stuff, you know, blizzies I was like, you know, so that's what I'm thinking about When he shows like the sausage on the grill, right? After everyone goes he's like, oh, yeah, like everything that y'all said like that is definitely the best interpretation of this What if I told you that this was a professor? This is how a professor described a funeral or cremation in Nepal and then that is where it took a shift We're just like wow this person has seen a professor at our school convey or Describe a situation in a very inhumane way and he's illuminating that to us And he's like, this is not how people ought to be described This is not how I would want my grandmother or my mother described And this is not how any of you should want your loved ones described And it is then why I started to see how much of a family man He was how family-oriented he was is and I think ever since then I just had to continuously come because I never saw someone teach It was unprecedented the way the passion in which he would conduct his lectures and I felt I like was personally Compelled to share, you know parts of my own life that could add to the discussion or after the conversation There's so many stories. There's so many examples I can give but I think that epitomizes the very first time I walked and it was actually epitomizes just the the care that he takes in terms of Interacting with the students and also interacting with the coursework Definitely that was the first class I also went to with dr. Loggins and it was coming from like a college professor actually, you know showing pictures of a family's cremation ceremony From Nepal to like a white classroom and you know, just like breaking that down and contextualizing it in a way That shows that like as a like because the college's course was basically like based on health care and medicine, right? And understanding how to use empathy to react like relate to your patients And understanding how that in itself was totally like an unempathetic and just like disgraceful in the sense of like how can you have honor or like be so Cruel in showing something so personal of a family But you know, I think my like personal example like falls outside of the classroom Where I remember during the summer like this is after the college section and even past like this is like when it finished I remember just like randomly I was on campus during the summer just doing research and I get a text from another friend who like is like close with dr. Loggins and dr. Loggins invited us to go to the Mario Wood ceremony in Oakland and like that area and you know I went there and just seeing dr. Loggins like engage with the community and be part of those communities was truly impactful and it made me question and Really think about how us as black students on campus can be a part of, you know The external environment and you know really engage with a unifying, you know Just us as black bodies unifying towards, you know understanding What we as like a whole can contribute And you know, it made me really really grateful, you know coming from Kentucky I lost my father at a young age and you know, dr. Loggins being that source of representation for not only me, but other black students was truly impactful and I'm grateful for it It is while hearing all stories Like it's very unfortunate the situation that's leading to us to even have to have this podcast But it's like I was just could have came just from like us interviewing his students Yeah, I'm saying and just talking about how great of a mentor Brother your father, you know I'm saying professor. Yeah, you know, I wish it could have been like you said under different pretenses but it's also really beautiful to hear that a Mirror is still doing the same exact things that he was known to do when I was a kid, you know, because I Went to middle school and high school one of his keys Yeah, I'm my 30 so that tell you how long how far back that go right and I remember just like my first introduction to him Of course, you know, you know who he is as a lyricist and then seeing him as a as a parent But then engaging with him like my first one-on-one interaction is playing basketball again So and so to see that he is still like very much Functioning in the same patterns and I can relate to him having those. You know, he's someone that's been by my side From a you know, essentially knowing me when I was a pre-teen to be in a teenager to be in a young man And has has shaped me in this while to see that across, you know, generations And then like you speak to my love talking about engaging with the community The fact that the way that he functions off of that campus is the exact same way He gonna function in Oakland and Berkeley and San Francisco and Richmond and it's the reason why so many people love and respect them Absolutely, absolutely, and I want to add on to that other point about like just hooping with dr. Lagan's I remember that's one of the times at least that I saw him outside of the classroom Obviously, I was pulling up to a section already You know one two times a week, but it was when we came it was like maybe Eight of us. He was definitely enough to run for us But it wasn't quite fast because I want to say we were half-court, but in any case It's just great like just being able to call him knowing that he's gonna take time out of his day I take out take time out of you know the time he could be spending with his wife It's kids will to go, you know hoop with students and we be on a court talking in the same way that I would talk to my Peer, you know, I mean, he's gonna talk to me the same way that he would talk to and bro. Nice He's gonna school you in the classroom So but in any case I think that speaks volumes to Kind of like how he prioritizes the people in his life and especially how he prioritizes the students in his life All right, he sees us as people we see this as humans It's not like he's clocking in do his little canvas assignment right great it and then clocking out as soon as and you know Getting off campus now He's staying two hours after to give us a space to continue to interact with them He's pulling up to our little three-hour hoop run-ins And putting that work in and then bright when he's like oh, I'm tired and we're like oh, you're not gonna run another way You know, but I so now since you said that more in another way like he's making that effort He's putting that time in and I haven't seen any teacher or at least I haven't you know been exposed any teacher Who's putting in that amount of Effort yeah, I mean he really shows how the community is a classroom, you know, I'm saying especially being on college campuses They always want to talk about community and One Stanford or whatever the slogans that be happening in terms of universities But I think in terms of a community educator Dr. Loggins is one of the perfect examples of how to be a community educator You feel me from him hooping with y'all. I'm sure y'all get lessons from that You know I'm saying especially has grown into manhood and what it means to be a man, you know So what was y'all's initial? Reaction to the news of dr. Loggins being suspended I Could speak on that I remember I was I was eating lunch or something like that And I just remember getting a call from dr. Loggins and I was I was just assuming it was just gonna be like Okay, it's like a catch-up call. I'm just like see what's up But then I remember the first thing he said to me was hey, Milo I think I'm at risk of being fired and in the back of my mind I was like that shouldn't be possible knowing how much dr. Loggins cares about his students and you know Just cares about us as a whole like as a community it really is shocked me and so I wanted to contextualize the situation so I remember talking with him about it and you know the way that in which like Stanford Frames, you know what had happened and what had go on? It sounded completely they like was completely alienated from how like he expressed it and later on I talked with like other students who were in the class and how they expressed it So I thought this was a grave injustice, especially, you know following, you know, Jaden eyes like experience You know talking about what the professor like previously in college had did and show to the classroom in the context of like the cremation ceremony and just You know dishonoring that personal, you know experience so I I was very shocked and Immediately, I was like, okay, this is wrong and I think this is injustice. So what can we do in order to, you know? You know get rid of this injustice and make sure that dr. Loggins his morale is his ethical, you know character is Not, you know, you know dirty and and you know, he can remain honorable Yeah, and um, I want to say the first like time I found out is when Milo reached out to a lot of us So that goes to show how kind of like our community works But in any case I remember when I heard it and then when I looked it up in like the news articles are publishing things about it I knew it was supposed and I think that speaks volumes to the the fact that This man who I've met and seen interacting in his classroom It's not matching the descriptions that we're seeing on you know, mainstream media It's just not in a way Well, I could say with complete confidence and conviction that this is just utterly false and I need to you know be able to gauge You know where the truth is because it was never a time where I was like dang It wasn't it wasn't one of those situations where it's like, oh, wow I thought he was like this and then he did this that's really crazy like that's unfortunate It wasn't that it was like, oh, I thought he was like this I still think he's like this so this story has to be false because this is in line with the way that I view this person Um, and they're actually like they're mutually exclusive this story and who this person is cannot coexist so I think that Already I was kind of I was upset I still am upset and It's just this long arduous process of trying to clear his name because right now He's being dehumanized. He's right. They're trying to dress him in this group archetype of this You know tall strong black professor who's just making students feel, you know unsafe No, this is a professor that reaches out to hoop with students This is a professor that will go playing pink and it's not even just black students This is a professor who was gonna go play ping pong with one of the um like Asian girls in our class You're right. This is like that is who this professor. It is He's someone who is trying to make students feel safe not even in the classroom Outside of the classroom to just to build community, right? So I think that like I Was really taken aback by how quick the university was to Kind of subvert this story In a way so that they could immediately remove him because let's be honest last year They didn't even they didn't offer him like a permanent job. So already last year We had the same conversation talking about how do we get him to stay on campus, right? Fortunately enough right before the school year mom He was able to get a call in terms of be like, oh, you want to still teach a class He was like, yes accepted it this year, right? This was all surprised to us over the summer We didn't think he was coming back, right? We were trying to make effort shake, but it was like towards the end of the year We couldn't make anything Happen unfortunately, right so this year Given that we were lucky enough for him to be back Right, there's any type of misinformation came to the desk and it was ready to be like, yeah Go ahead give me your campus. Let me you know all you from campus. He can't physically be here They're gonna let the stories happen. They're gonna say that they're gonna have an investigation But they're not really going about it and they're just trying to stall it and make it and you know Have us sit out of the until we forget about it, but that's not how this works He has too much of an impact for us to just forget about it, right any other teacher Maybe if they were moved I'll be like, yeah, like okay, whatever I guess he was my math teacher who's cool I guess but no, that's not the way that we can move with him because he was so much more than a teacher so much more than a lecture So honestly my initial reaction to answer your question, but just I was appalled I felt like I was I was being removed myself and Him him being gone is is a part of me being gone. That's that's as likely as I can put it How has the community's reaction, you know been to that, you know, specifically, you know the black community How has y'all been feeling around this in terms of what it means to y'all? like collectively Yeah Yeah, I guess being on that as well. I think that the community is ultimately Feeling forsaken too, but I don't think that they think this is strange I think that's that's the key distinction to me. This is disheartening. This is discouraging But at the same time, it's not surprising Stanford has little done they they they have little to no regard for Having professors or faculty that make communities of color feel seen heard or loved That's just what it has been and it's been repeated to be that so when we by chance get someone who does feel that void They're quick to have that void be there again So I think that for the black community the photograph me they look at this situation and been like wow University is doing something like this again and To kind of make this even broader make an intersectional with other issues the whole Stanford student body is already upset with the university's response in regards to the conflict in Gaza right now, right? They claim to take a neutral stance, but they release various statements that you know explicitly condemn The actions the terrible actions that happened by Hamas, but they don't explicitly had them is the Israeli government for The atrocities they've done for over 75 years This is like we understand what the university says on this and a lot of people don't agree with how the university is responding to this Right. There's been hate crime in terms of you know, Arab Muslim students on campus They've been protecting this tenured pro-Israel professor for calling student that has been harassing students calling students terrorists Calling them useful idiots these this is the environment that we're living in now. There's a crazy solidarity I think it's forming between black students and Palestinian students or Arab and Muslim students on campus where you are seeing They're looking at this situation as like wow this person was speaking up for Palestine I was tempting the humanized Palestinians in his lecture and he got taken out being claim like he's some you know, super dangerous and Anti-Semitic extremists and while we're on the same we're on the same aisle thinking like okay. Yes, this is happening and also People who are speaking out and showing their solidarity for Palestine are and are receiving consequences for that or disproportionately black They're targeting disproportionately black people who are standing up and saying the things that need to be said that the university is afraid to say So I'm not only is the black community Shocked, but I think the Palestinian community in the Arab Muslim community is also shocked and there's becoming a formation of Solidarity between both of our groups Surrounded by this issue because this is intersection with so many things in terms of The problems I say with our question repression is always going to raise consciousness That's what's gonna happen. And what you're seeing is a as a raising consciousness as it pertains to the institutions Response to Palestinian resistance in Israeli genocidal occupation There are so many things that are a play throughout this situation, but at the core of it is anti-blackness Is Western capitalist imperialism in the morals and values The subsequent morals and values that follow this ideology in practice, right? But one thing before I go on to my next point is I want to remind y'all that y'all do have power as students, right? Because the one thing that what I've seen through these different articles from the Stanford Daily and just communications from Stanford was that Amir's removal was about quote-unquote protecting students, right? And so now they've created a precedent set the precedent where they're about they're about protecting students Are y'all not students? Are y'all black students that do not feel protected on campus, right? So y'all have the ability in which a boss can Give y'all more practical steps as a former student organizer who pushed his racist Capitalist institution to provide more resources for the black students on campus y'all do have power That's what our question y'all have to continue to organize, right? But one point that I wanted to make was This story has really grown legs, right to where folks aren't even sure of what claims What the reason Amir has been removed for right is really grown legs and What has happened in the midst of this is that some students have even already come out to debunk What was what was what he's been accused of in terms of oh making students Pick up their stuff and calling them colonizers and students in the classes like that's not what happened was so ever, right? But as you can see the reporting that's coming from this It backs the false claims and it goes back to again what he was doing was essentially just asking questions The questions that y'all pose in your article right or in your statement is this a fair fight And so we have to At all times we have a what this whole thing is about is our duty and our obligation to the truth Period. I think it's also sad, right? I can only from what I'm seeing from y'all so far is that he's the only black professor that y'all black male professor That y'all don't even in his class whose class y'all been able to sit in I went to three colleges I've never had a black male professor and was he the only he was a GA at a time. You're up there. He was a Yeah, I'm the teacher's assistant essential or a GSI graduate student Instructor did you have any other but I was able to take one of his so he was my GSI. I believe my junior year right and Then I took a summer course that he was teaching himself. So what does it say about four black? Men black kids who want a podcast right now for male black kids black men on the podcast that say We've never had any black male professor Hey, man, Robert Allen, who's my tool? Like it's a shame birth and that's the anti-blackness I'm speaking to at the core of it And it makes when you realize that all of us have gone through these different institutions have not had any black male professor This is why it makes sense as to why they can lie on one while they can dispose of one so easily and not care The true impact he's having on people across generations It's about generations of black men black people in general. Ain't he a black professor? That makes you feel communal you feel me that makes you feel loved you feel me that makes you feel like I'm trying to learn today I'm trying to figure this to us as exciting to learn about you. I'm saying cuz you could get a black professor And not feel how you feel about a mirror. I'm saying about dr. Walker's right. There's a certain Who he is as a person who he is as a human being you feel me who he is as a black man You feel me it's always been about community. It's always been about like communal practices It's always been about doing things what I would say for the sake of humanity, you know, I'm saying like you always talking about he's a You know playing table tennis with other students you feel me who ain't black you feel me that's that's just the character of them You know, so I think it's important when we talk about a Black professor like he's a black professor who's about the community You know I'm saying who's actually about true education and education in a way that Can actually benefit you in your growth as a human being And if for y'all as too young black man being able to be mentored by his education and be able to think about yourself yourself differently, you know, I'm saying like even What I do now I Feel like if I didn't see someone like a mirror doing it when I was 21 20 years old you feel me he gave a playbook you feel me. I'm a ooh I remember seeing him speak in 2014, right? I'm like, I'm trying to talk like that I want to talk like that one day, you know, so it's like having that example You know, they always say, oh, we don't have examples as black men and then when you have an example a great example They lie on your name. They try and get you they suspend you you feel me they dehumanize you when literally He should be a tenured professor And I think to add on to that. I think it's It's it's so Great to it's been such a pleasure to see the roles that he plays in terms of like being community oriented And I'm sure that y'all can speak to this as well. Um When I talked to him one time and he said, you know, like this was last year when we were trying to, you know Figure out some way to get him to be, you know, rehired for the, you know, subsequent year Um and the subsequent years following having giving him a more permanent position And he said when it comes to organizing people always think that I'm the Malcolm X, right? I'm, you know, I'm tall I'm like, you know, sometimes I can speak in a very, you know Um a lot of the way in a way that can like wildly curl together But that's not really the world that I like but I'm a Ella Baker type like I was I'm gonna sit back and I'm a let Y'all I'm a guide you I'm gonna say oh, if I was you you would do this I would or if I was you I would do this. Um, I think it would be better if you did this You should phrase this like this way, but at the end of the day He wants us to do the work. He's like, this is not about me Right, this is if they want to just have You know a black professor on campus, they'll make a black professor be on campus If they want to give me a class they'll give me a class, right What you all need to do is you all need to make explicitly clear that you want a dr Loggins in every single department at every single sector of this school So if they take away one dr. Loggins, which they have already done now It isn't like a huge void because there's a dr. Loggins where I can go to in another department Um to fight for the original one back, right? So it's like I think that He has this incredible knack to remove individualism in terms of organizing He removes himself completely. He's like, this is not about me. Sure. I know It's important to latch on to the situation Just in the sense that it's like an easy thing to unify around But this is not something that needs to be isolated within this situation If you want to rehire me if they if they if it's easier for the university to be like, hey We'll give him a class. We'll give him a partner. Oh, but in terms of Protecting black students in terms of giving them space in terms of you know hiring and tenoring more black Muslim perfectures in the future We won't really worry about that. We'll keep down on the back burner But we'll give him a class like if that will make y'all shut up, then we'll give you Right. That's not what he wants and that's not what we want. Um any consistently Repeats that to us and I think that is what um is amazing about him in terms of Trying to mobilize people if I could speak on that um I think that The the most powerful aspect of dr. Loggins is that he as jane said he wants us as like a community To establish a long term like source of impact for future black students and just black and brown students at stanford Because I just remember going into a college section on one day. We're just talking about okay What a ways we can make an impact now in relation to the the creation of a new like african american african studies department Here at stanford. Um, how can we as a student have a voice? um in the decisions That like these like higher ups are making um so that in these scenarios It's not at the will of the higher ups and saying like okay. You should be grateful for like what we're giving you It's more so like okay Um, you're giving us these options Here are our thoughts and as a student body. We would like these needs and these um like these goals to be met in the in the sense of like How we can feel most comfortable here and how we can feel like you know, we're represented in the classroom And also like within the community as well Um, and I think that's something that's really powerful That dr. Loggins has really made an impact on us And you know, I think the thing that both jade and I are like talking about is like it's not limited to like black and brown students And it's limited to every student He has like like a counter and it shows that like whoever is like manipulating like the the narrative And to sell me his name It shows that like they have to subvert it a lot so that people try to lose like morale in his character because you know his character is just so Is it impacted students like of every background here at stanford? And like beyond as well, of course, and that's yeah, that's why I commend y'all on our efforts Whether it be the petition that y'all are going or whether it be just even coming on and getting on this podcast Because as it talks about the type of influence I want to have on the next generation of black students at stanford whether it talks about the influence I want to have on this potential black studies department that's that should have been built right It's said in precedent as to which y'all willing won't allow like they won't be able to dispose of black faculty they won't be able to treat black students as what they won't be able to Not take principle not take anti genocidal stances that talk on demand more And it also take a lot of heart and courage. And so I I definitely commend y'all The work that y'all doing and in the potting and push y'all to keep doing more Yeah Second that for so especially because what y'all is doing is y'all is now setting a new standard for what it means to be a black student At stanford, right? So when they come from one of your professors or when they come from a student or where they come from Or whether they come for a worker you feel me y'all showing as black students like hey And we united about ours and we ain't gonna let this happen and we're gonna protest we're gonna struggle And show our humanity Even if you don't see it you we're gonna show it, you know, so Definitely commend all the work that y'all is doing and you know, this is uh You know, you was talking about dr. Loggins and how he's wanting to you know, be like Play the background role, you know what I'm saying like Y'all are showing that y'all are stepping up You know, I'm saying if this was an assignment In one of his classes, you know, I'm saying y'all was showing up for the assignment In this moment, you know, I want to revisit something that y'all done brought up a few times and so just to make sure it ain't swept under the rug because It was something that another student from stanford not even connected to y'all Had brought up about an incident that happened on campus before the summer where uh I don't know if I think this professor was white, but he showed a slide Of I believe like a cremated asian person instead of reminding him of barbecue And so I'm like, okay. I go and look it up. You can't find it nowhere This just happened a few months ago. Just happened a few months ago before I'm here, right? Uh So what was what was stanford's response to that because I believe The student who told me was like, you know, the next day students went in like a you owe us an apology He filled me like this was uh, what you did was out of pocket unprincipled racist Uh, and there was no response from stanford what I'm understanding the teacher wasn't suspended. There was no communications about how Stanford's gonna work to keep the safety of students at the forefront Even those students demanded an apology from this person a whole classroom of people And then you got professors calling students terrorists Calling them all these different types of names harassing students. Yeah, and they're just allowed to do that on campus But someone asks a question And it's suspended and then it's lied on dehumanized So what are we talking about here? What are we talking about exactly so there was no action for the teacher Yeah, I I feel like I could I could speak on like what had had happened because like I was in that lecture that you were in the I remember I was in the class. Um, and I remember Uh, because it was a big like lecture hall like there's lots of bodies there, right? And it was a big screen and we were talking about it's funny. It's Hypocrite, right? There's this lecture because we were talking about empathy in you know talking with like families and talking with You know people who are who are sick or ill so that they can feel understood as a patient Funny enough, mind you this guy is in palliative care. This lecture is in palliative care And that like that literally is for you know people who are in the process of like Like being ill and possibly you know dying or or has the risk of that, right? And then just for at the very end of the class, he pulled up a like a slide That showed uh, like a family's cremation like burial ceremony in napal And I remember him saying like oh, my trial wasn't on paul. I thought this was very interesting and showing like uh, like Oh, this ceremonial aspect of like death and stuff like and I remember thinking to myself If my if someone came to the hospital the day my father passed away and just took a picture of my mom and I Like just standing there, right? I would feel disgusted I would feel because my again, he didn't have any Um, you know authority to take that picture. He didn't have any permission Press or anything like that. Yeah, he was just walking there and he saw it and took a picture of it and showed it to a whole classroom of students, right? okay, so There's something called fizz on stanford, which is like our like campus like Um, like social media basically is like circulates like what's going on campus, right? It gets brought up on campus, right? I think later that day he issues like a very brief apology And it was it was formatted in a way that it's like, okay If you have any questions or i'm sorry for this and if you want to clarify anything You could just come to my office hours and we could like talk it out. I'll have an office hours for this um and I write one like dr. Loggins was telling like on my call. I had with dr. Loggins. I was thinking to myself This is such a clear double standard Such a clear double standard in the way that the university is handling this And like, you know selling dr. Loggins character when in contrast like This professor was able to get away with it like with a simple like letter and like office hours, right? I think that's like a clear Demonstration of how like this professor who explicitly said something terrible and the showed something terrible um Like in the disregard of the honor of of you know human like the human life and and the ceremony of that um I think that's such a clear double standard absolutely And I was and I was just gonna add on to that and say that like it's Not only is it just a double standard. It's so Absurd to me how the university just thinks this is okay to allow this professor to stay Mind you, this was not posted on this day for daily. This was not posted at least i don't think Oh, was essentially like something in the road It was essentially swept in the rug if you were not a part of the college team or your friend wasn't maybe a part of You would have not known this I guarantee there's people on this campus I would guarantee that actually the majority of this campus know nothing about this situation, right? So which I think is Like I just I can't believe this I can't believe it And I think that people are starting to see these hypocrisies more and more people don't want to wear that situation Um, there's a professional on this campus. Her name is judas freemanis who I talked about who's calling students terrorists Right. She's a genetics professor tenured at their school as well. So keep that in mind, right? There was a hate crime like I mentioned Hit and run where this Arab Muslim student was just walking on campus White dude with glasses came in hit some says f you and your people and then runs away clear hate crime She goes out and says that This student is a pathological liar and her evidence for this is a screenshot from that same Fizz post which mind you are just anonymous students just like saying random stuff online It says like look he's a pathological liar You're a tenured professional Like you're an actual tenured professor and you're sitting here going back and forth with students There's videos of her sitting here going like this where she had to get the police wait So there's a tenured professor who's had the police called on them To the point where they made a student they made a student and community members feel so unsafe That that the police were called and this person still teaches there And the people are still here and this isn't Who was it? Anyone feel like they needed to call the police who didn't make anyone feel like oh my goodness like I'm just scared like I'm just trembling in fear right now. Who didn't make anyone feel that way he is Being you know trending on twitter and he is getting death threats and his family is getting death threats like that Yeah I think something crazy to think about is that This is like they're trying to make an example of a professor of a black muslim professor Who tried who was just creating A relation of empathy for palestinian civilians who are experiencing, you know the terrorism that they're experiencing um And for that he's being sullied and lynched in the media While you know these like tenured professors these like palliative care doctors who Should know what they're about are are going in great lengths to be one unempathetic And they're they're making students feel unsafe and you know, it's just You know, it makes me question. Okay, which students is stanford? And yeah, and like, you know Exactly in like, you know, if you're able to dispose of dr. Logan so easily for doing this What am I what am I to the stanford university as an institution? What am I your diversity ploy? Like what is with the hope that one day you might be a neocolonial agent that they can lean on that you'll give billions You tell my y'all math major one of y'all is a math major Oh, yeah, come on. We need that y'all post your poster boys for Set up y'all poster boys. We have a situation here where You have a teacher Who doesn't ask who doesn't say look at y'all i'm finna show y'all cremation Do I have y'all consent to show this real quick? I recognize this might bring up some for some people Can I say all this real quick? It doesn't matter if he asks for consent to say i'm actually i'm also going to compare these people to barbecue Wouldn't it matter if he asks for consent to that that's just it's out of pocket no matter how you cut it We have another tenure professor Who has had who has made students feel so safe so unsafe That they call the pigs Then we're dealing with a situation Where mirror just asks do we think what's happening in as it pertains to the palestinian and israeli conflict Is a fair fight And this is will get some removed because what they're saying in the stanford daily is uh jewish students are unsafe on campus because of him And it's crazy and it was two questions. Let me get that in mind. Let me mind you the class is called wide college um Education in the good life. That's what the class is all about So in the very first lecture of of that class, he said he asked the students. Oh, what is necessary for a good life? Everyone's saying oh food water Right gas electricity. Oh, like everyone's just answering what is necessary for a good life In this lecture to give you a sense of how this is not this was not just a black Like a just sporadic black man walking in speaking out of his not really like oh my god This is not what this is this is a scripted Planned lecture that uses the readings and is pulling on past previous lectures, right? So he goes, okay, so we had this conversation So the first question was from a humanistic perspective are palestinians living a good life Mind you we told we talked about the things that people need Have a good life. Yeah them to be considered Right access to water electricity energy things like this all things that palestinians are not having right Not having to be susceptible to constant policing or Constant questioning right simple basic necessities for someone to have a good life So he's asking this question. Are palestinians living a good life? Right the second question is now militaristically is this a fair fight I don't think though if those two questions if we don't have space on our campus to talk about those two questions This is the precedent for dangerous fascism For crazy censorship, which they're already starting to do for people in the program, right? There's an article maybe release. I want to say a week ago That's like, oh, yeah Now they're having meetings with people that were in the same fellowship program that he was in My new only black person in that fellowship program. Well, they're saying that. Oh, yeah now This professor was saying too much of the facts. So let's start making a precedent set right now Y'all can't start speaking your mind follow this specific syllabus follow and follow it this way We want a robot. We want to say you could only say this at this time essentially Following a whole playbook by definition. That's actually here. Hey, here's a book Don't ask who wrote it. Just read it and teach it this way and teach it this specific way Because he's he was pulling from his syllabus from a book that they have already read From a book that y'all are reading it was like I pulled this out the crack of my ass It was it was gonna happen. So from uh, uh to use the terms the pedagogical standpoint From the pedagogy. This is right in line With the pedagogy So what do we talk about you spend six years in school for to get your phd to do exactly that This is what I was trying to do. So what I was hired to do This is what's all asked me to do. This exactly reminds me. Yeah This exactly reminds me of that one. Um, I think this was a couple years ago But like this president is still here like the president's still here today and like the media But like I remember that one like white reporter who said, oh shut up and dribble, right? They just want us to just go through the motions and just okay You're stanford under these contexts, right? You're stanford under these contexts and like if you go outside of these contexts and think a certain way I think they're showing that the president is that okay You have to conform to what we believe and I think in in an educational setting and in academia That is extremely dangerous because one like who are you who are like They're expecting us to benefit, right? Um, they want to like they just want to be benefited from like oh like your your prowess your educational prowess intellectual ability Um Exactly exactly, but what is that? Exactly, but like what is that intellectual ability and curiosity without divergent thinking, right? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Um, and it's it's just um It's it's very telling I'll say that it's very telling. Yeah. Yeah, and like to add on to your point it's So It's it's so wild to me because it's like this is this is how they frame this this is how they frame this They say That your presence alone dr. Loggins in this fellowship program as a black Muslim lecturer. That's gracious We are doing you a crazy favor by allowing you to even be here So with that being said if you do anything that violates these conditions that we have kind of boxed out for you You have forsaken us and the university and they genuinely feel forsaken When he says when he teaches in a way that makes students feel safe that Is what this is like this is being for me. That's really what it is. It's being like, yeah How could you be so entitled as to actually teach the class in a way that connects current events with the coursework? How could you how could you do that? You're gracious. Yeah, we are great being like gracious to you by allowing you to teach period So let's be cute and teach stay aligned. How we want you to teach period Stay aligned also What happened is they put him on the chopping block as a message to any other stand for professor lecturer graduate student If y'all if you ask a question We are going to treat you how we treated dr. Loggins Right. It's when you just talk about jade and like all the uh, the different things that play, you know what I'm saying We're talking about anti-black racism We talking about islamophobia. You feel me? So I said, all right You black professors don't think about it You muslim professors don't think about it And if y'all do ask these questions If you do have an analysis if you do talk about it even on instagram or social media Trust that we gonna know about it And we gonna do something about it. This sets a national, right? This sets a national dangerous national precedent to where There's no investigation And then even these terrible these journalists, right these so-called journalists I don't even want to use the word journalism because it ain't journalism or we should really call them as propagandists If a article says and students were in that classroom saying what that what some students said that are lying Students said that But that's nowhere in any of these national articles Because the story already grows journalism. It grows legs. It grows. You feel me? So that's the Uh It's it's like a model you were saying like this is a lynching of his character But you have to uh assassinate somebody's character And then what's happening now death threats So then it's okay. Yeah, he was this person. He was this uh crazy black professor You know what i'm saying? But really he's a father a Scholar educator a professor a hooper community leader a community leader you feel me Like and this is what they're trying to do because that also sets a precedent To people who are communal like that that this is not a space for you You should not exist here. We're like you're saying jennon. We're doing a favor Be happy. Here's your Stanford shirt Yeah, no, and it's it's the reason and the fact that This is something that that we need to start harping on more which is the fact that they're now Having this meeting where they're bringing everyone in his previous, you know Cohort members right and being like, oh, yeah, like I mean, it's we need to we need to make sure that we kind of rallying this fellowship program now And let's make sure that this doesn't happen again. It's the reason why slave masters when they're gonna beat a slave They're gonna beat them in front of all the other slaves It's just saying like yeah if you want to act out of line If you want to if you have the idea if you have an inkling in your body that makes you That possesses you to think that you can do this. Let me go ahead Look over there. Let me see what you did what we did to your mares and then we think that right? It's like that's how They're trying to operate so that it's very clear to anyone else That may come later or that is in the fellowship program and thought about thinking their minds um Or speaking their minds that you can't do that here Especially if you're coming from a marginalized community you especially we have less grace for you to do that um and I don't know. I think it's it's indicative of a larger problem That hopefully we can we can make strides to to address in a So tell us about what y'all have going on as it pertains to the support of dr. Loggins and looking You know listeners and supporters of hella black and uh people's programs due to support y'all endeavor I think um, so uh jayden has been working jayden. I've been working on like a petition and like how many signatures Are they on the petition j? um currently I want to say there's over I can really check right now um 1,300 only been up for about a little over 24 hours Two days. Yeah, all listeners. We're gonna link this right petition On the youtube channel and uh on the podcast. So you feel me also will uh link it on on our instagram page as well So be sure to go Take one minute and sign the petition. You feel me? Yeah, not even not even it takes like 30 seconds You can sign it even if you're not affiliated with stanford. Um, you can put a stanford community member or you can use the other and just say You know just here to support whatever the case may be So we have that petition coming out We plan on mylo was great enough to um make a flyer Trying to get that mass printed out. It's been great. Um, I've been really in close communication with the stanford sjp In the city genocide. It's happening at our campus right now They have had a lot of resources that have been able to help so they've been able to help us like with mass printing um We have a stanford daily article. Hopefully coming out to kind of pub Um sent out a press release. So there's a whole lot of interviews coming out that we were supposed to have a rally today Actually, but um, and unfortunately got postponed that I was set to speak at so All is that to say that this is definitely not the last that you're gonna hear of us? um From us from black students on campus and palestinian students count campus because at the end of the day Loggins made a lot of people feel seen they made a lot of people's feel Um heard right whether it be that mexican kid from south central. That's my friend pavel Who also was there whether it be a palestinian girl whether it be, you know, that japanese boy that used to come in Whether it be jewish boys just just this people we have a running document of testimonies of people writing You know anywhere from 50 words to 500 words Just about how the impact that they had on his life and it's from all different demographics ethnicities and And communities, right? So, uh, this is definitely not the last you're gonna hear Definitely, I think uh like We're we're making sure that our voices don't go unheard and There's no feasible way for stanford university as an institution to look away from like what they did And you know think about making sure that there are pathways aligned so that in the future This is not even a scenario that could happen and there's already like Um, like enough like as jay said like dr. Loggins in every department That we as the stanford black community and just like marginalized groups on campus can feel safe in and feel comfortable in And we can feel like we're being prioritized as well. Um in these situations And yeah, we I'll keep up the good work man. I ain't doing nothing but picking up a torch Whether it was a mere guiding a boss in his work at uc berkeley Or you talk about the long history of the black radical tradition In these institutions where you talk about the black panther party being started at Old oakland city college, right? Whether you talk about the work of walter rottany and dar salami diversity in t in tanzania Y'all are doing work that is always going to be necessary for new africans for africans across the diaspora As we continue to fight for our social economic and political interest and power right as a result of you know Western imperialism and the phenomenon of fucking capitalist imperialism and neocolonialism and colonialism. So y'all keep grinding You know, we're going to be here as a resource period point blank This is going to extend past the justice for logins campaign and making sure that uh, we do our part As community organizers to give y'all the support that y'all need To really impact that campus and because y'all not going to be the last black students to come through there Y'all will have a new uh class of folks coming in next year class after that class after that and y'all can I think about the work that anabasha just give a little Overview on that for y'all to understand some of the work that he did at uc berkeley Establish some of the resources that they had because they in fact Did create the conditions for black students uh to have Maybe not the best but it's a better experience than what they had on that campus It's still going to be bad, but what can you do when you're there? You know what I'm saying like Especially thinking about it from that framework when we was doing work at cal You know, we had 10 demands for institutional change One of the demands was to create the fanning with him or black resourcing right Uh, which was one of our biggest demands because we had essentially a small little office You feel me that only like five people could fit in 10 people at most Uh, that was the only space for black students at uc berkeley. You feel me an institution that's named after Uh, genocidal slave owner. You feel me literally berkeley is named after george berkeley. You feel me? Uh, so we had 10 demands for institutional change and through that Demand process of organizing a protest and of literally shutting down cal day Which was one of the biggest recruitment days for cal where everyone goes at the party and stuff I'm shutting that down like we're able to get our demands met. You know what I'm saying so Even if it's a small group, we were a small group, but we were able to mobilize people, you know And as long as you're committed, uh to the goal Y'all gonna be victorious Y'all gonna be victorious. You feel me because uh, if you have that commitment in your heart and you have that passion You know i'm saying and in that steadfastness Y'all gonna be able to make it move forward. You know, so I'd encourage y'all to think about, uh ways Not only get injustice for uh, dr. Loggins, but what does it look like to get justice In general on that campus for black students, you know, I'm saying because y'all might be laying the foundation Uh for a jade in 10 years now 10 years, uh In the future, you know, I'm saying come to that campus and having a better experience and then that person It's picking up the torch to move forward. You know I'm saying so that's how we uh, we gotta think You know I'm saying is like how are y'all gonna mentor the freshman? You know I'm saying and then how are they gonna mentor the next people? You know so that torch is always being passed With each generation and then how or when y'all graduate how y'all gonna be a part of the community How are y'all gonna have that same type of impact that uh, dr. Loggins has had on y'all You know, that's how we truly build power. So for y'all as black students y'all got a lot of power There's a a big history of it A big history of it and y'all should see ourselves As part of that history now, you know, like hey Some people write books y'all are making the books that people write about Y'all might write about them too one day, you know, so see yourself as as stewards of that history and just know Me and delincy People's programs. We support y'all Anything we can do you feel me? And it's in our reach. We're gonna be able to do it for y'all. So Appreciate everything y'all is doing and I will say last thing is If it's not coming through and what we're saying is Don't take it lightly because you never know where this This effort this passion this principal action that y'all taking on college. All right That student organizing that a boss was doing that's how me and him met, you know I was a journalist doing a local, you know Doing some local reporting in our role on the 10 demands for institutional change and from that writing That's how our relationship started in a few years after that we started people's programs, right and now we in our Six year of the organization taking what we learned from these college campuses And providing real resources and material change on the ground to the community of Oakland and so Uh, again, if you use principles and you use steadfast, it's like a boss was alluded to earlier Y'all cannot do no wrong and it's no telling how that will manifest in the future. And so keep y'all head up we'll keep y'all feet to the ground and Y'all be happy with the result without question because they gonna say no to certain things. They're like, oh, we don't care But force them to care Use your strategy use action, you know, I'm saying you use the power of the pan use the power of protests Of direct action of shutting things down, you know, there's a lot of tools at y'all disposal But don't ever let them put y'all in a space of fear Like that y'all can't win because we can't win and it has been proven time and time again If anything our history shows us it shows us that if we struggle if we dare to struggle We can't win, you know, thank you so much for talking to us and extending your resources Definitely, thank you so much really appreciate y'all Appreciate y'all and anything y'all need you feel me tap in with us for show