 If I could ask members of the public who are leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible, as we are resuming business. The next item of business is a Members Business debate on motion 10164, in the name of Miles Briggs on Sea Beyond... Sea The Lives Scotland. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put but I invite members wishing to participate to press the request to speak buttons now Os ydych chi, Miles Briggs, i ddweud o'r debat sy'n ddweud ym 7 mlynedd, Mr Briggs? Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I start by thanking members from across Parliament for their support for the motion and allowing today's debate to take place? Can I also warmly welcome the campaigners and those who have shared their letters to loved ones to the public gallery today as well? I have opened and spoken in many members' debates in my time as an MSP, but this one is very different and very personal, and I know for those who will be speaking today that that will be the same. From the outset, I want to thank everyone who will be speaking in the debate today. I want to start also by paying specific tribute to Monica Lennon, because if it wasn't for her and her brave decision to speak about her own dad, Gerard, in 2017, I don't think that I would be leading this debate today and have shared my story. I think that I speak for all of us as elected representatives when I say that our first instincts, quite rightly, is to protect our families and loved ones from public scrutiny. They, after all, have not put themselves forward for the scrutiny that we rightly should have. Perhaps most critically, I think that we all want to protect our loved ones from what often will seem the negative prism of social media and strangers commenting on our family members. When I agreed to speak about my dad, Jim, my experiences growing up did concern me how people would judge him, judge me, judge my family. That is exactly why I felt I needed to tell my dad's story, because stigma faced by so many individuals and families is very real when we are supporting someone battling addiction issues. That stigma and judgment that people often face needs to be addressed if we are going to break down the barriers to people accessing help and support for our loved ones and for our loved ones to have the confidence and self-worth to come forward. Deputy Presiding Officer, I have genuinely been overwhelmed by the number of constituents, colleagues, journalists, people from across different countries who have reached out since I wrote my letter and since we launched the campaign. Like many people who experience problematic alcohol or drug use, there will often be a life event or trigger to that behaviour and any problematic addictions and issues which go on to develop. I can only imagine how difficult it was for my dad to lose my mum to breast cancer and to be left as a single parent with three children between the ages of seven and fourteen. My dad was a dreamer. He would often speak about his life, held dream of moving the whole family to live in a wooden hut in the forests of the great Canadian wilderness. I suppose I'm lucky here when he made it as far as Perthshire, to be honest, but my dad was an entertaining, charismatic person. He was arguably at his best socially in the pub or at the races and like many of us, that is probably where a problem developed and a problem with alcohol. Deputy Presiding Officer, everyone knows someone is the message behind the campaign, See Beyond, See the Lives. As today's debate will demonstrate, everyone does know someone. Launched in May by the University of Stirling, Scottish families affected by alcohol and drugs, Scottish health action on alcohol problems chap and the Salvation Army, I was pleased alongside Monica Lennon to help launch the campaign here in Parliament with fourteen other people who have shared their letters to their loved ones. Speaking to families after the event, it was telling that many of their experiences were the same as my own and my family's. There is still stigma, stigma attached to our loved ones, speaking about problematic alcohol and drug use, not only from how people talk about it but the judgments they bring to it. The notion that someone has done it to themselves or the labels which society can often attach to people, they are harmful. The conscious and unconscious bias that our loved ones must face when seeking treatment and support, sometimes even from overworked medical professionals, as crisis state in their briefing which was provided for today's debate. Stigma kills. Stigma impacts on a person's self-esteem, their mental wellbeing, limits their willingness and ability to engage with support services and ability to sustain changes in their lives. People can change, but stigma holds them back. Deputy Presiding Officer, I hope that today's debate will present an opportunity to change the conversation around alcohol and drug issues and the devastating impact the loss of a loved one to alcohol or drugs has on a family and their friends. I hope that people will visit the CBeyond website and support this campaign by agreeing to sign the CBeyond pledge and pledge to be respectful and compassionate towards those affected by substance use, including the families and friends of those who have died from alcohol and drugs. Pledge to show respect by using kind and non-judgmental language about those affected, especially our friends in the media to consider that when reporting and covering stories. Pledge to show compassion by reaching out to someone who has lost a loved one to alcohol and drugs. Deputy Presiding Officer, in Scotland many of us have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and the role that alcohol plays in our culture and society is often at the heart of that. From wetting the baby's head to a good send-off at a wake to drowning our sorrows when times are tough, to alcohol often being at the heart of all our community sporting and social lives. Over the past 10 years, Scotland has lost over 20,000 people through alcohol and drugs. I lost my dad. I know that we can make a difference and that starts with ending stigma. Thank you Mr Briggs. We now move to the open debate. I call for Stephanie Callaghan to be followed by Jamie Greene around four minutes, Ms Callaghan. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Miles Briggs for today's debate during International Recovery Month and for sharing his experiences today very briefly. I am also beyond grateful to all the organisations involved in the powerful and vital See Beyond, See the Live Scotland campaign and of course to those sitting in the gallery today too. Presiding Officer, my sincere condolences go to every person, family, partner and friend who has tragically lost a loved one due to alcohol, drugs or both. I have spoken before in this chamber about my own family's loss, so I will not go into that today, but we know that it is an issue, like Miles Briggs says, that touches all of our lives. Such deaths are preventable yet every day in Scotland we lose more than six people, six people every day. The fact is that all those people who have died recently in years gone by are people that our system has failed. Problem substance use is clearly a complex issue and it is often intricately connected to challenges around poverty, mental health and generational trauma or one-off events. It is critical to consider the social, cultural and economic drivers. The impact that deindustrialisation remains stark too and this holds particularly true for my own constituency in Erdingston and Bales hill. Once a proud centre of coal mines and steelworks Lanarkshire was sadly transformed and mass unemployment and persistent poverty descended. Too many found solace in using substances to escape the grinding reality of a life that felt was devoid of joy or of hope. The most recent local statistics recorded 76 suspected drug deaths during the first six months of this year, one of the highest recorded in Scotland. On a positive note, there are many organisations that are truly person-centred and trauma informed, as we have heard already, that focus on the whole person and their whole well-being. In my constituency, the Blue Triangle Service operates at the intersection of social care and social justice and is a system designed to fix people issue by issue. To quote them, we see the person, not their stuff, and our mission is to empower people to thrive, to provide a springboard, not a safety net. The Beacon Centre near Biblantire is fantastic too and a young woman there bravely spoke of her personal battles with mental health and substances and the stigma that she experienced. She said, I was a dancer, I had ambition, it just happened that there was deprivation, inequalities and adverse childhood experiences that got to me. Stigma is a barrier to recovery, you are so scared that you will be punished or kids taken away from you. The fear she said of losing her kids was terrifying but what actually helped her recovery was being valued, accepted and rebuilding ourselves of control and hope, not judgment, punishment or blame. Stigma and inaccurate perceptions are devastating. It shatter self-esteem and confidence and limits individual's capacity to seek the essential support and help and treatment that they need, even when they want it. The media certainly plays a role yesterday's green light for Scotland's first drug consumption room that will offer easy access to key health and support services, resulted in the social media headline, breaking UK's first illegal drugs consumption room, giving go ahead, and also first illegal drugs consumption room. Some of those headlines have already gone but the damage stays. Sadly, a life-saving policy was manipulated to reinforce criminal stereotypes and to dehumanise. Those are headlines that as leaders we must challenge. In closing, we all have a responsibility to reflect on our communication, our words and our language, to be kind, to talk about the person not the substance user, to be catalyst for kindness, change and for social renewal. Jamie Greene, to be followed by Monica Lennon, in around four minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm very proud to be taking part in this debate with colleagues from right across the chamber who have a lot of immense respect for on the subject. Miles Briggs, my colleague and friend for being so personal and open about his own experiences, and I thank the stakeholders who brought this campaign see beyond and see the lives to this Parliament. I want to talk about the campaign itself and I'm using the title as my guide for my comments today, because I think we're very used to many debates like this. I often think that they're great debates, there's a lot of do-goodery involved and a lot of warm words shared across the chamber. But what does this debate actually focus on? What is it actually saying to us and what is it actually asking of us? See beyond, see the lives. What does that mean exactly? Well, at first glance I guess we are being asked as politicians to see beyond the substance, see beyond the alcohol or the drink or the demon, see beyond the drug addict or the alcoholic and see them as a human being, not as alkies and junkies as they too often are. See them as your dad or your mum or your sibling or your child. Now I don't have siblings and I don't have children but I do have a dad who was an alcoholic and a violent one at that. Now I'm now the age he was when he succumbed to his illness. In fact when I writing the speech yesterday it was so long ago you know I barely remember his funeral and I have a mum now five years sober and I'm very proud of her and she's very much alive and I don't intend to rehearse those stories in great detail today. For many of the reasons that I think Miles Briggs eloquently told us there is a still a huge amount of shame and stigma on the subject but I did do an interview with Hollywood magazine last year and it's the hardest interview I've ever had to give in politics. We all have our own personal stories known as immune or above the subject. See beyond it can be really hard to see beyond it can be so hard to see beyond as a relative of an alcoholic to see beyond the fear and the pain and the anger and the confusion that you yourself experienced, the utter despair of all more so if you're doing it on your own and more so if you're a young person or the child. It's difficult to see beyond the consequences of their drinking and the absolute mess that is often left behind for relatives and loved ones, both the deteriorating health, financial and physical, the endless desperate ringing around for help, the calls to the bank to try and block cards, the failure to secure power of attorney, attending funerals and even being at the hands of violence itself but the reality is when you strip all that away the masking effects of what the alcohol has done to that person, the pretend person that has made them deep down underneath it all, you will often find a warm, loving, helpless, desperate person who simply is crying out for help from you and from the system. The problem is it is not always there. The stigma is unbelievable when you try and help someone face this illness. In fact sometimes it's disgusting. I heard phrases like well she's just a selfish Algy. He's a monster when he's drunk. They're not worth the help. They deserve what they get. That's their choice in life. They're all adults. They chose that path or even worse they're beyond help. No one is beyond help, Presiding Officer. Because as we have difficult and even divisive debates about whether drug takers are victims of health problems or criminals, when was the last time we had a proper conversation about problem drinking? See the lives. Let's see the lives of those people through their own eyes because they know often know the damage they're doing to themselves. Because they're self-medicating far too often to deal with horrific problems and experiences. They also feel so much guilt because they often know the hurt that they're causing their loved ones. See the lives through their friends, through their relatives and the survivors, particularly those who have had to grieve. See the lives as well of those who have recovered. People do recovery and are in recovery. Let's see the difference that is different as stark as night and day in black and white when you see someone who's in recovery. When I think of my mum's own recovery and she won't mind me saying this, the thing that pleases me most is that as she emerged from the darkness of that illness, she grew to rediscover who she was as a person. She became more herself again. Her humour, her wit, her interests, her hobbies, her intellect, her emotions all returned slowly but surely. Look, we as a family take nothing for granted, Presiding Officer. Every day is a new day but if only someone in that dark deep place could look into the future and see a parallel future free of the shackles of that disease, it's not easy to imagine but it is a beautiful thing when they do. Every death is avoidable. What we can do as MSPs is complete that pledge that that campaign asks of us. I pledge, I pledge to be respectful, compassionate, non-judgmental and to reach out to someone who needs my help. I make that pledge today. Let's all make it. Thank you, Mr Greene. I now call Monica Lennon to be followed by Beatrice Wishart around four minutes, Ms Lennon. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Colleagues will know I'm not often stuck for words but Miles Briggs has made a habit of making me cry in the Parliament in recent months but I'm genuinely grateful to Miles Briggs for bringing a debate to Parliament, for bringing colleagues together, to those who have signed a motion and who couldn't be here to speak and of course to everyone in the gallery. I'm just trying not to make any eye contact right now. It's a debate and obviously what we say matters but I think it's just having a space to listen and just to have that compassion and kindness in the chamber which hopefully will resonate into our communities. Thank you to Miles Briggs for mentioning my dad, Gerard or Jerry, at the start and to hear about his lovely dad, Jim, two different MSPs from different parties, different parts of the chamber, different parts of the country and two dads who I'm sure were very different but at the end of the day we can see there's a common thread that joins us and it's a pity that we're not sitting together Miles Briggs to debate because a hug would be nice right now but when we were approached to be part of this campaign it was a huge honour. I didn't want to turn up looking like I'm right now with a runny nose in wet eyes but I suppose that's what it's about, it's about showing our vulnerability and just being honest that this is really hard, it's hard to find the word. Some days it's a bit easier than others but as they say one day at a time but really grateful to the University of Stirland, the Salvation Army and Scottish Families and SHAP for reaching out to us and thank you to those who are here in the gallery. There's a lot of good stuff happening out there and I think Stephanie Callaghan is right to talk about some of the projects and the charities and the groups that are out there doing the working over the summer since we had our parliamentary event. I've been out there in Lanarkshire and elsewhere, we're just having a chat, see what's going on and there is a lot of love and kindness and compassion out there but we need to scale that up, we need to make sure that the funding is there to do that but the barriers are real, stigma is a killer. People might say oh why are they in here discussing stigma when we should be talking about legislation and policy and funding. All of that is important, we need everything but stigma is a killer because people are frightened to ask for help, they're worried about the police at the door, social work using their substance use against them, what will the school say, what will people say at work, what might colleagues in here think of each other if we say substance use is an issue for us. The Eva Burroughs project in Canberra is one of the projects that I spent time with and they're doing amazing work to end stigma and to bring tackling homelessness into the equation and we've had a really good briefing from Turning Point Scotland and crisis on that. We know we're not doing enough, we know what we need to do more, it is a public health crisis. I, if you will indulge me because we don't have a lot of speakers near adventures but I just wanted to talk about the letter to my dad. I took ages to write it, I looked at everybody else's letter and I was just so amazed and you know impressed and I just I couldn't do it, I found it so so hard so miles completed his homework before I did but I suppose I talked to my dad, I talked to him when I visited the cemetery and so on, I know that maybe sounds weird but hey you know we need to talk about bereavement and dying and grief and all that a bit more. So I suppose it was a love letter to my dad and I won't read it all now, it's on the website people have seen the video and so on but I was really struck by Ann's letter to her friend Carol and talked about guilt and in my letter to dad I said there were times it was too difficult to be around too many days when it was too painful to run to you. On those dark days when we were apart I hope you know you were always loved because there was a lot of anger, there was a lot of isolation and distance and so on but that guilt is real and some of the stigma I experienced as a family member was in the NHS people know in here I am a huge champion of our NHS but we need that kindness not just from our politicians but our GPs our nurses our doctors and so on. I will just end if I can because this is a not for sympathy but there's so many because these are avoidable deaths there are just now so many moments in milestones that we've missed out on together and the 20,000 people who lost their lives all of their family members over that last decade will get this so for me me and my dad talking about politics debate and ideas that really influenced me in life but my dad died the year before it was elected to the Scottish Parliament and that is something that I do struggle with so in the letter I say if you'd lived one more year to see me elected to the Scottish Parliament it would have been a special moment for us to share. I'm going to stop there, thank you for your indulgence but I just want anyone who is struggling today to know that they're not alone that they can reach out get on that website get people to sign the pledge we've got a lot of work to do but we can do it together because we have to see beyond and we have to see the lives. Thank you miss Lennon I'm sure your dad would be enormously proud I call Beatrice Wishart to be followed by Finlay Carson around four minutes miss wishart thank you Presiding Officer and I thank Miles Briggs for bringing this important debate to the chamber this afternoon when I attended the sea beyond parliamentary event in June I heard moving and powerful contributions from family members and friends of people who have died because of alcohol or drugs including from our MSP colleagues Miles Briggs and Monica Lennon and I commend them both for their work on this important issue I know there are many across Scotland who sadly share this experience and I thank everyone who shared their stories at the event alcohol and drug addiction can be devastating to communities family friends and of course for the person with the addiction today might not be the time for this conversation but I observe parallels with gambling addiction the stigma associated with that addiction also causes people to hide their problems making seeking help harder it is true that everyone knows someone there are stories I could share about drug and alcohol addiction close to home but living in a small community means that people and families could be easily identified from what I might say so I obviously won't do that but suffice to say I have a great understanding and empathise with those who have experienced addiction individually or as a friend or as a family member I know that children growing up in households where there is addiction can be impacted both in the short term and long into their adult lives nobody chooses to have an addiction and we live in a world with less compassion than we would like to admit there's a long history of people with addictions being stigmatised and discriminated against and drug and alcohol addiction stigma can have serious consequences feeling judged can prevent a person seeking out support and treatment stigma can erode self-esteem and is linked to mental health problems family and friends of someone that with a drug or alcohol addiction can be affected by feelings of shame and guilt and when bereaved people can find it difficult to speak openly about losing someone to drugs or alcohol and get the support that they need organisations providing support to people with addictions are also stigmatised and communities can become defined by substance abuse causing them to feel isolated it's important we tackle stigma so that people affected by alcohol and drugs can get better and more timely support removing stigma involves effort from across society for all of us as the sea beyond pledge states committing to be respectful and compassionate to those affected by substance abuse using non-judgmental language when talking about substance use problems and reaching out to those who have been affected are important steps to take addiction is a health issue and should be treated with help and support not judgment Scotland will soon see its first safe consumption room and measure that's received widespread support and it seeks to protect some of the most vulnerable from overdose evidence from other countries shows safe consumption room save lives and can provide a point of contact with services that people with problematic drug use may otherwise face barriers in accessing there must be action on many fronts to reduce the harm caused by drug and alcohol addiction in my constituency chetland the charity dogs against drugs was set up over 20 years ago following a number of drugs related deaths in the aisles every one a tragedy it has two main activities seizure of drugs arriving in chetland by train drug detection dogs and drugs education in schools to prevent substance abuse sorry substance use recognition of the intersecting issues that contribute to a dick addiction means addressing homelessness treating mental health problems reducing poverty and ensuring that tackling stigma is integrator across all actions at the heart of everything must be the people living with addiction their friends friends families and communities thank you Presiding Officer thank you miss wish it and I call Finlay Carson to be followed by carl mokhan around four minutes mr come on thank you Presiding Officer as we know problem drinking is a an issue and sadly Scotland has a unenviable reputation across the world with alcohol being embedded right in the heart of our culture and there's no signs of that changing with over four in ten non-drinkers perceiving others think they are odd for not drinking it affects both young and old rich and poor in our towns and our cities as well as in rural and remote communities with around one in four people drinking at hazardous or harmful levels recent statistics revealed that the number of people who died of an alcohol specific death last year are minded to 36 people in Dumfries and Galloway those figures may not be the worst across scotland compared to the average but it simply can't be ignored or glossed over because as the motion states behind every death there is a family there's friends and communities who are experiencing a devastating loss according to NHS Dumfries and Galloway 30% of men and 11% of women exceed daily or weekly recommended drinking limits based on data from 2017 up to 2021 a total of 442 people were admitted to hospital in the region due to alcohol related illness these stats make for worrying reading but what is concerning however is that the number of scots gaining access to receive treatment for problem drinking has fallen dramatically and at a time when the number of alcohol related deaths is soaring and it's not only regrettable it's shameful this government has admitted that it took its eye off the ball during our drug deaths crisis and now I fear that it's doing exactly the same on deaths due to alcohol now I want to recognise the fantastic staff and volunteers who work in drug and alcohol addiction support in Dumfries and Galloway but the barrier and there's one big barrier it's the stigma which is limiting the number of people who come forward and this problem is not going to go away and it can't be brushed under the carpet it needs swift action as well as increased resources to help those at hand who need the support when they seek it are we really sending out the right message to anyone struggling with alcohol issues I don't think we are we can't simply acknowledge this issue and say well particularly when it comes under the what we've been talking about today there's a huge stigma and guilt or embarrassment so when people come forward we can't just say yep we know you've got a problem but sorry there's no treatment programme places available but we do need to remove the stigma addiction in all its forms if we're to stand any chance of addressing the issue and there has been huge efforts to remove the stigma attached to drug addiction and we need to see the same approach in alcohol the sea beyond campaign aims to reduce that stigma and you know 50 years ago my grandfather died he was a very successful and well respected businessman and it wasn't until many years later my mother admitted that he was an alcoholic up till then his illness was often referred to as problems with his nerves and he spent time in a mental hospital but the reality was he had a serious problem of alcohol abuse and it had effects on my grandmother who wasn't able to talk about it because of the stigma and that was 50 years ago but little's changed one of my very best friends died a few months ago he was an amazing musician the best of friends but he clearly had a problem with alcohol but none of us stepped in he was often what was referred to as a function an alcoholic but he was almost certainly a contributing factor to him losing his job and ultimately I believed him losing his life there was no death certificate no death notice there was no funeral there was no chance to share her grief with the family there was just silence I'd love to name him I'd love to pay tribute to him but there is quite clearly a stigma surrounding his death that his family were not able to cope with and that's not a criticism it's just a reflection of how the stigma still exists right to this day and that must change and the sea beyond are making progress just to do that today I asked the minister and this government to act swiftly to ensure that the number of scots struggling with alcohol issues their family their friends and the communities get the vital support necessary to tackle this growing epidemic ddag i mista Corson a now called the final speaker in the open debate calm walking around four minutes thank you Presiding Officer and can I of course start by thanking Miles Briggs for bringing this really important debate to the chamber and like others thank Miles and Monica for their very personal letters but can I also thank Lucy, Holly, Zoe, Fiona, Peter, Andy, Jerry, Pauline, Irene, Caroline and Philip Lorraine and I hope that I haven't missed anyone for sharing their very heart rendering stories of love loss and hope for the future it is unfortunate that we require to have this debate but it is a reality that we must do so because judgment and stigma continue as we have heard if our approach to changing this does not include accepting where we have gone wrong in the past where we are currently getting it not quite right then we are doing a disservice to those who already and or could become dependent their friends their families and their communities and so I would say to all my colleagues here in Parliament we must listen to these stories and seek to understand how and why stigma affects people and their loved ones while they are navigating an often tremendously difficult time in their lives we have heard statistics I'm not going to repeat them it's not for for today but every individual who has lost their life through alcohol or drug dependency is a loss before their time and their friends and family have lost a loved one and that must always be remembered every life lost is an absolute tragedy tragedy and this is a public health emergency and it must be treated in this way which includes being respectful respectful and compassionate to others I think the point about the way in which the media presents this is really really important and I would call on all parliamentarians to make sure that they do challenge any of that kind of language that we know affects people of course morning Collin thank you now that I've composed myself one of the points I was hoping to get to was that sometimes we get really good articles and really good features and the words are you know on point but sometimes when they get to the headlines and the photos stigma keeps back in so does my colleague Karen Mawkin agree that there's more work to do around media reporting that is not just about the the copy but the photos and the headlines thank you absolutely agree with that point and I hope that I make a point later on that perhaps crystallises that and I want to raise a point that I often do in this chamber the impact of alcohol and drug harm on our most vulnerable communities people in Scotland's most deprived communities are five times more likely to die because of alcohol related disease and around 16 times more from drug misuse and compared to those in our least deprived communities the impact of alcohol harm are wide ranging and can impact anyone but that in 2023 these harms are still felt so acutely in our most vulnerable communities I think I'm sure is something that we would all want to approach and it links to the point that Monica was trying to make that these are often communities that are already stigmatised and so it is really important that we strive to make sure that we don't stigmatise certain communities and all obviously people who perhaps have dependencies that they are trying to work with we need a strategy that underpins kindness in our approach and in concluding Presiding Officer it is imperative that we have a compassionate preventative approach that tackles the root causes of some of our problems in our communities and we make sure that we move and seek to crystallise in people's minds that we must always treat people with kindness and we must always treat people with respect and I started at the beginning of my contribution I wish that we didn't have to have this debate but we do have to have this debate and I encourage everyone who can to listen to the stories and to sign up to the pledge today thank you thank you very much miss Mocken and I invite Jenny Minto to respond to the debate minister around seven minutes please thank you Presiding Officer I too would like to thank Miles Briggs for bringing forward this motion as we welcome and support the work of Seabeyon see like see the lives campaign I spoke to you after you'd written your letter and after I'd read it and I think I said to you your honesty and courage really shone through and I thank you very much for for doing that and Monica as well when I was reading your letter I was thinking about my own relationship with my dad and waiting for him to come home and that excitement so I think it was a love letter it was a beautiful beautiful letter the minister for drugs and alcohol policy Elena Whitham was present at the event here in the garden lobby in June and I know that she too was moved by those who chose to share their own experiences as family members who have tragically lost someone due to substances including as I've just said Miles Briggs and Monica Lennon when I was preparing for this speech I this morning I watched a few of the videos on the website and again the the feeling of honesty grief but also as Carol Mocken said love and hope shone through shone out from all of them so thank you very much I also I appreciate how difficult and painful these situations are however as others have said it is only by listening to the voices of people with lived experience that we will find the right solutions and truly understand the damage that stigma does the debate today shows that we are gaining a clearer understanding of the harms of stigma and that it is necessary to work together across the chamber to tackle it since the event earlier this year I'm pleased to say that officials have been working with the coalition of partners who have delivered the see beyond campaign to support them to share this further it's such a powerful resource and we are committed to ensuring that families across the country who have lost a loved one to substance abuse use can see they are not alone as Jamie Greene said in his beautiful speech thank you no one is beyond help we have set out the principles of how we will improve holistic support for families affected by drugs and alcohol in our framework which was published in December 2021 this framework recognises that all family members need help and support both to be involved in their loved ones recovery but also in their own right to realise this we're investing more than six and a half million pounds per year to improve family support this is provided both through alcohol and drug partnerships and directly to vital frontline organisations via grant funding programme it is essential that we invest in networks of community family support to enable families to talk and support one another giving them safe and supportive platforms to reach out to others who share the same experiences yes of course Jamie Greene I'm very grateful for the minister and her kind words I mean for my own experience of living through this as trying to assist someone get on that path to recovery the reality is though is you do feel very alone and there often are far too many your signposts to so many different places most of these people are very overwhelmed they're very overstretched and some of them have just shut down they don't even exist anymore what I think really needs to happen is there needs to be a very clear central place to go to for family members of people trying to help people with substance abuse they can pick the phone up and get immediate help with somebody local to them and it's that locality and quickness and easy of access which is so important and that one-to-one contact with someone who will help them is simply not there at the moment far too many and I hope that can improve minister minister I thank mr green for that intervention and you've put it on record and I'm sure my colleague Elena Whitham will will get back to you or and her officials as well I think you make a powerful point we but we know that stigma can inhibit that vital connection with families feeling judged and isolated stigma is driven by assumptions that are not based on fact or evidence we see and see and hear the harmful stereotypes far too often this is why campaigns like see beyond are so important in bringing attention to the damage caused by stigma it can be difficult to share our painful experiences and it can be challenging to hear them but as a society we cannot turn away from this and Stephanie Callaghan in her contribution highlighted the fact that it's not judgment or blame but hope in sharing their stories the families who took part in the see beyond campaign are bravely showing other families across scotland that they are not alone it is essential that we are able to foster a culture where we can speak openly and without fear about losing a loved one due to drugs or alcohol or about one's own experiences of drug or alcohol use Monica Lennon I'm very grateful to the minister and for her comments I think it's actually good that the minister's here in her capacity which covers public health one of the organizations that I spent time with this summer was SAMH they've got an individual placement and support service in North Lanarkshire and they were stressing that employment can be a health outcome in someone's journey but I heard some worrying stories about people in the workplace if you were living with cancer you know people would be very supportive we would hope but substance use has been treated somewhat differently so some people were saying that they've been asked to sign up to basically like drugs and alcohol testing as a condition of coming back to work but when I asked them about it it didn't sound like they had fully given informed consent on that so I just wonder are there conversations that the minister could have with other colleagues in government because we do need to look at this holistically but I do feel that there's workplace stigma there's some really good employers and there's some that just don't get it so is that something that we could do some more work on minister and give you the time back oh thank you I thank Monica Lennon for that intervention and I think you raised a really important point my previous employer a while ago had very clear guidelines that everyone understood and worked towards which I thought was really positive we are working cross minister portfolios so yes I'm happy to to look at that situation together we can tackle prejudice and discrimination towards people affected by substance use let me confirm the Scottish Government absolutely recognises drug dependency as a health condition people affected by substance use should be treated with the same compassion given to those experiencing any other health condition and reflecting on what Beatrice Wishart said as well last week I was at the health and social care alliance self management awards and the keynote speaker was talking about gambling as being a public health issue as well our stigma action plan was developed with input from our third sector partners in the coming months the detail of the work will be co-produced with people who have lived and living experience including families we will target the structural and systemic stigma that is too often embedded in organisations with a new voluntary accreditation scheme member organisations will be asked to show how they are actively supporting people affected by substance use by removing barriers we will also introduce a national programme to target public stigma to challenge uninformed assumptions and highlighting that a health condition like substance dependency shouldn't be used to define or punish people or their families stigma is fed by the myth that addiction is a choice and that people can stop using drugs if only they try hard enough there are many reasons why people use drugs and alcohol for some it's trying it's to try the experience for some it's an occasional thing others use them to cope with trauma or pain no matter the reason no one chooses addiction we do have a choice however we must choose to actively fight stigma choose to respond to the drug emergency with kindness and compassion we can all learn alongside our work to support families and tackle stigma Scotland has set out an ambitious way forward for respecting and enhancing human rights and the forthcoming human rights bill will give effect to a range of internationally recognised human rights in scots law they include the right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health and the rights to adequate housing and an adequate standard of living the incorporation of these rights into scots law through the bill will play an important role in tackling the stigma of substance dependency across scotland by ensuring that everyone's human rights are respected protected and fulfilled presiding officer by working together across the chamber with vital organisations like those behind sea beyond and those whose lives have been affected by substance use we can end stigma every person in scotland can also play their part by reaching out with kindness providing a listening ear and treating people affected by alcohol and drugs with respect and as miles briggs said everyone does know someone thank you very much shed minister that concludes the debate and i suspend this meeting of parliament until 2 30