 I'm Elizabeth A. by three very special guests to celebrate and recognize the 75th anniversary of the Women's Armed Services Integration Act. Signed into law on June 12th, 1948, following World War II, the Women's Armed Services Integration Act permitted women to serve as permanent regular members of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force. Prior to that, women had served in limited capacities in the Army and Navy during World Wars I and II, but were not allowed to continue to serve during peacetime. It's also important to note that despite being told no or you can't or you shouldn't, countless women have made critical contributions in defense of this nation long before they were permitted to do so, going as far back as the American Revolution. To talk about today's historic anniversary in the road ahead, I'm joined by three veterans and DAV members. Nancy Espinosa is an Army veteran in the past state commander of DAV Department of Utah. She now serves as DAV Senior Vice Commander and is Adjutant of the DAV Department of Utah. Belinda Hill is a retired DAV Benefits Advocate who spent three decades in the Army. She is the former Commander for the DAV Department of Louisiana and Chair of the DAV Interim Women Veterans Committee. And lastly, Naomi Mathis is a retired Air Force veteran of the Iraq War and a former DAV Benefits Advocate. She now serves as DAV's Associate National Legislative Director and is a fierce advocate for women veterans and other underserved veterans. Thank you all so much for being here and of course, thank you for your service. I'd like to start by asking each of you what motivated you to serve and how you would describe your military experience. Naomi, let's start with you. What motivated me to serve would be I needed benefits and a stable life for my children and I had two kids at the time and so I wanted benefits and education and stability for them. But I would say that my service was definitely challenging, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Belinda, how about you? What motivated you to enlist and what was your military experience like? My motivator was my children. I was a single parent at the time that I joined and I wanted to provide a better quality of life for me and the children, get a better career to actually have a career more or less instead of just having a job. And so you spent around 30 years in the military, if you could kind of recap what your experience was like, how would you describe it? I started out, my first 10 years was with the Army Reserves. When I was talking about a better career, I had a job as a regular person. You have a job before you joined the military and it was just a job. So when I joined, I said, well, you know, I need more because I am a single parent and I do have to take care of my kids. So I looked into the different career fields and I picked a medical career field that I chose to go into and the Army provided me that career field. After that, my last 20 years was working with the recruiting command. But the first 10 years, it gave me the training that I need to provide a career in a stable family, a better quality of life for myself and my children. Nancy, how about you? I joined the Army Reserves when I was 17 and still in high school. My mom told me to get a job. So I found one that I could do part time. So I stayed in the reserves for 10 years and like Belinda had another career on the side. But then 10 years later, I had the opportunity to go active duty. And for a lot of the same reasons as Belinda and Naomi, I had children that I wanted a stable career for and benefits and that type of thing. So my option was to go active duty. And when any of you join, did you give any second thought to being a woman entering the military? This very traditionally historically male dominated space. Did any of you think about that going in? I see head shakes. Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't. At the time I joined, there were four other women joining. This was at the end of 1975 into the reserve. So it was a big deal that there were five of us joining at the same time, but we didn't really think about it. It was just something we all wanted to do. And same for you, Naomi and Belinda. Yeah, same. I mean, I didn't even think about the fact that I was I was a woman. In fact, when I went to MAPS, I had just finished finished nursing. So that was probably the only time I really thought about like, I'm biologically, you know, I need to be able to do this. But no, other than that, I really I didn't give second thought about it. Yeah, and we've spoken before. And I think one of you or maybe all of you mentioned that, you know, you were a soldier and a servant first and you didn't think about it. It was on top of mind of being a woman in this field. But was there a time when you felt like others maybe treated you or saw you differently because you were a woman in uniform? Nancy, you've spoken before about your basic training experience. Can you share that with us? Sure, I went to basic training at the end of 1976. And at that time, they were evaluating what women could do physically compared to men and Title IX was just coming out. So they needed to kind of even things out. We went through the men's basic and there was only one woman in our company that passed the PT test because of the upper body strength differences. So we were in our own separate company and we were evaluated that way. That's the only time I really felt like it was there were differences with men and women and how we were being looked at and evaluated because they did change basic training for men and women after that experience. And how did you feel about that, Nancy, those changes? Well, I felt like I was somehow lacking because I didn't meet those men's standards. But I understood why and I wasn't an athlete in school or anything like that. When they did change basic training, I thought, wow, those guys got it easy now. And I was proud that we helped contribute to that evaluation. And women could do the, you know, a lot of the physical activities. So I'm glad we went through that and it was reevaluated for women in the future. Naomi, what about you? Was there ever a time where it was kind of put in your face like, oh, I'm a woman in uniform and maybe other people are looking at me differently? Well, first, I want to thank Nancy for that. That I didn't have to do the men's PT test. But yes, I would say so when I joined, I joined in 2000. Obviously, that was before September 11th and then in deployed three times after that. When we landed in Kuwait the last time the special forces and Army units had been up in Iraq for quite some time before we got there, which was in April. And when we landed, we were told not to walk around as females, not to walk around by ourselves. And it was kind of strange because, you know, that's never been a thing for us. I was in a combat unit and we were very, very close with our combat brothers. But we were told to buddy up with our combat brothers. And if we were going to walk anywhere, it was going to be with one of my brothers from our unit. And we were told because there was, you know, the potential that we could have we could be assaulted and not from, you know, a Kuwaiti or an Iraqi. It was from our own services, you know, the men that were had been forward for for some months. So that was that was that that really hit me that. Oh, right. I'm a woman. Yeah, I imagine that has to be unsettling and also, you know, I'm not sure how much of the conversation was around MST, military, sexual trauma at the time. Certainly talk a lot about it now. But prior to that, had you had that thought even crossed your mind this idea of harassment and assault in the military? No, there was no MST. That that wasn't a thing, you know, had I been. Had I've gotten advances towards me? Yes, absolutely. Were there crude jokes? Yes, absolutely. You know, but it was just it was part of just being in the service. You know, you kind of became one of the boys. You really didn't think about it like that. And I would say because my brothers were so protective over us that I felt like that wasn't something in my experience. It wasn't something that I had to deal with. So but yeah, that no, MST was was definitely not not a thing back then. Yeah, it was a thing. We just weren't talking about it, right? We weren't talking about it in a discussion, right? Belinda, what about you? Is there ever a moment where you felt like people were treating you or seeing you differently as a woman in uniform? I'm going to say again, I'll go back and thank Nancy since they changed a lot of the physical fitness requirements. But when I came in, I came in in 1979, you know, basic training at that time at Fort Leonard Wood, we were co-ed. We all men and women slept in the same barracks. We weren't on the same floor and we had male drill sergeant. We weren't allowed to the women weren't allowed to wear makeup. Our drill sergeants told us that he didn't. He didn't think that any of women, they they had to look just like the men, more or less. You had your hair in a certain way, our uniforms, they were all male uniforms. Our boots were male boots. They were just smaller size. We did have women dress uniforms, but you only wore that like graduation or something, you know, dealing with with that other than that. You were expected to train performed in the same manner as the men. If they had to climb the wall, you had to climb the wall. And you use the buddy system. And our buddies weren't just other females, you know, we were integrated. So we were expected to do the same requirements as the male soldier. It wasn't any different. You know, the P.T. are P.T. requirements. We had less of the push ups, less of the setups. And the two mile run was, you know, gave you more time than a male. Other than that, you had to keep up. You couldn't fall behind. Yeah. You were a soldier. Right. So we didn't think about I never thought about, hey, I'm a woman. I should be treated a different way. Not never thought about that at all. Absolutely. Same as with us, we were expected to do all of the work that the that the men did. I mean, there was no difference if somebody needed to, you know, tighten something. It was the next body that was there. It didn't matter if it was male or female. If someone, you know, was to mobilize something, it didn't matter who it was. It was a body. So I agree with Linda. Yeah. I think that that speaking of that, you know, I think that's what made me. I'm so competitive now. You know, it actually brought up more competitiveness in me, you know, because we were so challenged back then, you know, to keep up and be on the same level as the male. So I became very competitive after that. So and I mean, I think we can agree to, you know, the fact that you all, for the most part, you felt like same expectations. You felt like an equal. I think that's a testament to all the women, you know, who served before you and in generations before you, because there, of course, was a time when there were much greater limitations. So again, today marks the 75 years of women being permitted as full-time permanent members of the armed services. What does today and just that history of women in the military mean to you all as women veterans? Nancy, I'll let you start. Sure. You know, I think about history and we know that women served back even in the Civil War and Revolutionary War. And sometimes they disguise themselves to be able to serve. So there are women that really want to serve. And in the last 75 years, you see the growth of women in the armed services. And it's really heartening to see how many will volunteer because that's what they want to do. They just want to serve and be a part of something to protect our nation and our, you know, laws and things like that. The Constitution, that's the oath we take. So I really thank the women that came before us to pave the way in the armed services and how they have proven themselves to be able to do things and be able to be in combat situations like Naomi. And so I really thank the women that came before us because we're here and it's evident that we there's a lot of women that do want to serve. Naomi, same question, but I also want to add Naomi, can you imagine a military without women and like what that might look like? No, absolutely not. Just as Nancy said, you know, women have been volunteering to serve. I will also remind everybody that there's not a woman that has served that wasn't a volunteer. We don't we we've never been drafted. We've never been told, you must. So every time a woman steps up to to serve this country, it's always been on a voluntary basis. So no, I cannot imagine a military without an all volunteer force. No, yeah. Belinda, what about you when you reflect on the fact that today marks seventy five years since that integration act? What does that mean to you? What does it bring up for you? It brings up a lot of things. One of the main things is if it hadn't been for those women seventy five years ago that decided to, hey, let me volunteer and go out and help my husband or our fellow veterans, military people. We wouldn't have been able to be where we are today. A lot of women, I think that also, you know, we're reflecting back on it. It's it's a lot to do with education. And I think that if we we need to educate our younger women, you know, about the history and and so that they all have that same feeling, you know, to grow from with the women that paved the way before me, I owe a great gratitude. All of them, all of them, as a matter of fact, I'm the only female in my family that ever joined the military and it's provided a good life. Yeah, I'm going to shout out Phyllis Wilson with the Military Women's Memorial. She was asked the other day why it's important for us and for women in particular to know this history. And she said if she hadn't had known the history while she was serving, that she would have been a better soldier. And I think that just speaks volumes. And I know I've shared with you all before, you know, I did not serve myself. And I just didn't have that model growing up. I didn't think that was a feasible career or just or even an option. And so, you know, women coming up behind you, they can't know that that's an option unless unless they see it, right? Unless someone shows them the way. So if you're just now tuning in, I'm Elizabeth DePampe with DAV. And I'm joined by three veterans and DAV leaders to talk about the 75th anniversary of the Women's Arms Services Integration Act. Signed into law on June 12th, 1948, the law permitted women to serve as permanent regular members of the armed forces. I want to switch gears a little bit because while the integration act was a giant leap forward in granting women equal access to military service, it's important to note that it came with limitations. The law limited the number of women who could serve to 2% of the total forces in each branch, a limitation that wasn't lifted until 1967. Other restrictions remained. Up until 1976, women could be discharged for becoming pregnant or adopting a child. A policy restricting women from combat wasn't reversed until 2013. And finally, it wasn't until 2016 that all military specialties were opened to women. Now, by the time each of you enlisted, most of those limitations I just went over had been removed, but women still couldn't serve in combat roles and other specialties. How did you feel about that at the time? And did you feel limited in your military career? Naomi, I'll start with you because I know yours was a little bit of a unique situation. Yeah, no, I definitely didn't feel limited in my military career. So I was my AFC or MOS was a one Charlie five. And so you could drop our unit in the middle of the desert, like they did with our radar, and we would provide an air picture back to the generals and whoever was making combat decisions. And then we had controllers that would speak to the planes and control the combat airspace and within the fight. So that was the closest that you could get on the ground at being a female at the time. As you mentioned, combat roles had not been really opened. And so for us to be on the ground and actually see or being on the front line, so to speak, that that was unusual because I served from 2000 to 2007 and that was in Iraq in 2003. So I did not feel limited at all. I did not see any of those limitations. In fact, I was became pregnant while I was on active duty and was able to continue to serve. I had time off just as a regular if I was in a regular job and went back. But I will say that serving after that was was was a feat. Only be physically for myself. It was it was a feat. But I could still do it, you know, and once I was done nursing again, I was able to move on without restriction. So no, I didn't feel I didn't feel restricted at all. Belinda, what about you? I mean, you talked about very much seeing the military as a career opportunity. Did you ever feel limited in how far you were you were able to go or the things that you were able to do? No, I never felt limited. Even when I was in the reserve, starting out in the reserves in the medical field, I never felt limited at all with that. And then when I went active duty during the first Gulf War, I went on the recruiting command. Opportunities were still out there. Still had to perform no matter what. But the job opportunities, the career opportunities, they were still unlimited for us women. Now, as I look back into the recruiting command, dealing with the recruiting command, I know we all talk about jobs unlimited. Yeah, they are unlimited. Women have been able to go into the combat fields now as before they wouldn't able to do. And I saw this with my own eyes, the integration of women going into combat roles. But we still got to look at the whole big picture. Even though we are in the combat roles, we're still limited. The women today are limited. OK, we wouldn't with our particular field. But when it comes to women wanting to go into combat, they can have the MOS, except for direct infantry MOSs or tankers. I haven't seen a woman tanker yet. I haven't seen a woman infantry person yet. And a lot of that means that it is still limited, OK, on certain things that we can do based off our physical makeup. And Naomi, I want to go back to you, even though you personally didn't feel limited and again, you were in a somewhat unique situation. You certainly weren't the only woman who was in a combat environment when they officially weren't supposed to be or couldn't be. But why do you think it's important that those roles were officially opened up to women? You know, there's there's talent within each human being, each person. And we could bring so much more to the table to open it open it up. So, no, I wasn't the only female that was out there. In fact, my unit had about I believe there was about 30 of us, maybe, in a squadron of over 300 people. So and there were things that we could do that, you know, maybe someone else couldn't do not because, you know, they didn't have the people to do it. But we brought a certain I brought a certain talent to what my job was, to what my career field was. And had I not been there, there, you know, there might not have been and not just me. There are. Oh, my goodness. There were so many other talented women that were doing other things. And and, you know, it just opens it up to a broader field of people that that that wouldn't have been back in, you know, 1910 or, you know. Fortunately, we had to go quite that far back. We're talking about half of the of the country's population, right? And so to your point, there's going to be incredible, incredible talent in there. Nancy, is there anything else you'd like to add on that note in terms of women serving in combat roles? No, I I tip my hat to women that are in combat roles. And I thank you for that service. Proving themselves, showing men that it can be done. And we have the same fortitude as they do. I was in an admin role finance. And I don't feel like I was limited in my role in my service at all. When I was on active duty, there were times, you know, when you had to prove yourself a little bit more like Belinda said, but we all had the fortitude and the ability to do our jobs and, you know, stay with it. So, yeah, I want to go back and talk about, you know, the previous limitation on or consequences of women getting pregnant while serving. Those limitations no longer exist. But I think it speaks to this expectation that does still persist that women, regardless of what they're doing in their career field, that they're expected to be the primary family managers, the primary caretakers of the children. And I know each of you balanced family, motherhood and military service in different ways. Can you talk about kind of what that was like, balancing those two things? I had a child like Naomi while I was on active duty. And I only got six weeks to stay home with the with my son at that time. And it was a little rough. I felt bad for leaving him and leaving him in daycare, things like that. But I was able to do my job and it is tough to to juggle that. But as women in any career, we find a way to get that done. I agree the same thing. Obviously, I did have a baby on active duty. And when I left him and went to work, I would be at work. I would be pumping while I was at work. And then because his daycare was on base, I would go nurse him during lunch, come back and continue on with work. And then any time I had to leave him or any of my children, because I had the two girls as well, they went to my mom at any time I had to deploy or I had to go out into the field because I was a single parent, they they went to my mom. And so my mom actually ended up, you know, being primary caretaker of my children because I was I was gone so much. So balancing the two. It is challenging. But but hey, we can do anything. Belinda, what about you? What was your experience with that? I like what Naomi said. Women women are very powerful, powerful people. They can do anything. Being a single parent. The military doesn't care. You have to have a family care packet. So if you are deployed, somebody is going to be able to take care of them. You have to perform your job. You can't use the children as an excuse. Hey, I can't go here. I can't be wherever because I don't have somebody to take care of my child. So as a single parent, I made sure that I had those things in place so that I could be able to perform my duties because that's what's expected. You know, it's it's not a favor. We joined and we knew that. So Naomi, I applaud you for me for breastfeeding, you know, that that way. That's that's challenging. At least mine were older when I joined. So yeah. And Naomi, I know you said you said the same thing as like you can't. You couldn't use that as an excuse, right? You still had to show up and do the same job and do it well. But I mean, did you feel like there were good support systems in place? Do you feel like that was an area that could be improved within the military? I personally had a good support system. Just as exactly as Belinda said, you had to have a family, a family care plan. If you were a single parent at any time you left or if you were dual military, you had to have the same plan. But I did have a good support system in my family. But it wasn't just that, you know, we couldn't use it as an excuse as far as you're in the military. This is your job. This is what you're going to do. And, you know, go forward and go forward and do great things. It was I wasn't going to use that as an excuse. I was not going to let any of that be, you know, I wasn't going to show any weakness and definitely I was not going to have my children be seen as a weakness. So if there was a failed exercise, a failed exercise that I needed to be in or a TTY or employment or anything that I needed, I was there and I figure all the rest of it out later. You know, and looking forward today, my children are adults and, you know, they appreciate the sacrifice that they saw their mom, their moms, their mom make. So I'm thankful for that. Yeah. I want to start talking now about after women leave military service, so many of them will enter another system that's historically dominated by and designed for for men. That's the Department of Veteran Affairs. How do you think we're doing when it comes to serving women veterans and what can we do better? Naomi, let's let's start with you and you can maybe talk a little bit about, you know, some of DAB's critical policy goals and legislation in terms of better serving women veterans. Well, I will say I know that just since I've entered the veteran, being a veteran, and that was back in 2007 to today, we've it's changed so much. There's been so many different things that have come up that we previously didn't have. So with DAV, we want to ensure that every woman veteran or any veteran period, woman, man, doesn't matter, walks through those doors and feels welcomed. And because VA does afford high quality health care for all veterans. And we want to ensure that veterans feel welcome in getting that high quality care, because this is something that was earned through our service. This is something that this is a promise that was made to us that we would be taken care of when we came out, when we became veterans, if we served our country. And so and there are things that happened to us while we were on active duty that should be taken care of now that we are veterans. And so my body would not be in the way it is now, had it not been for my military service, my mind wouldn't be where it is today, had it not been for my military service. And so DAV wants to ensure that all veterans are treated equally. Yes, it is a system that was designed around men and we still have a long way to go. You know, now we can get mammograms. We can get, you know, dental care and all these other things that that are that previously weren't allowed for us. But let me say this as well. There are there is a still a long way to go when it comes to women veterans. There's there's a women's health coordinator at every VA facility, a medical center, and that they didn't have that, you know, just a few years ago. So I will say that there are things that are that are being done that are correct, that are great, but there's so much more that really needs to be done. Yeah. And just to, you know, give folks a couple of examples of things that DAV has been supportive of and the kind of health care that we need to make available for women. So yeah, the Protecting Moms Who Served Act that passed somewhat recently, you know, that's about maternity care and providing the best maternity care we can for women veterans. The MAMO and Service Acts, which was about improving access to mammographies, you know, certainly there's been a lot of progress made in terms of how we talk about MST and how we handle MST military sexual trauma cases. So I just wanted to throw those examples out there. Nancy, what do you think in terms of how we're serving women veterans? And maybe what we can can do better? Well, when I became a veteran in 1990, there was no women's clinic at the VA. We went to the same clinics as the men did, and it was not always welcoming. We were treated more as spouses or they didn't realize we were veterans when we walked in the door. Sometimes they would call you Mr. Not even looking at your first name and realizing you're a female. So things have really changed and progressed. And it's really good that the VA has done that. But I know there's a lot more that can be done just recognizing women's service, not only at the VA, but in other situations. I there was a time, well, there's been several times when I've walked around with a male veteran and he's got his hat on a DAV shirt. You know, so people realize he's a veteran and they thank him for his service and totally ignore me and I I don't say anything. I sometimes I'll say you're welcome and put my hand out. It just depends on the situation. If it's a funny situation, if it's a serious one, I'm not going to do that. But I think just recognizing women and realizing that we did serve and we do deserve the same benefits and care at the VA hospital, as well as being recognized by a veteran service organizations and our local legislators, our local people that promote veterans support, that they realize women are part of that service and it's a growing portion of both the veteran community and service members. So I mean, you know, not to state the obvious, but women have different and unique health care needs. And as we talked about, we have an interest in making sure that women or that military service is open to women because they can make such critical contributions. I want to shift to the next question, Belinda. You were the first woman to be elected commander of the DAV Department of Louisiana. Why do you think it's important that we have women in positions of leadership like that? We bring a lot to the table, whereas I guess some things that the men don't think about when it comes to the treatment of women veterans, how to incorporate women into the DAV chapters, into the department leadership. And we bring all of that. We we can do a lot of things as women veterans. When it comes to the leadership roles, when we go out and speak to different veterans across the state, we incorporate all people, not just the males, we don't talk about just the male issues. We talk about everybody's issues. And and we make sure that all the veterans feel comfortable, whereas the male can kind of be kind of rough around the edges. We make sure that they feel comfortable talking about whatever their issues are, how to make improvements and we know how to make people feel welcome. Yeah, I think kind of on that note, again, going back to MST, we know that roughly one in three women who get their care through the VA have reported experiencing MST and I think it's understandable that they may be not as comfortable entering another veteran or military community. They may not be as comfortable with or they may be more comfortable working with with women to enter those spaces. Nancy, is there anything that you'd like to add to that as a senior vice commander? Go on, Linda. Sorry, I think Belinda had something to add. Oh, I was going to say that includes male veterans that have MST. Yes, they don't mind, you know, communicating that to a female veteran versus that male, you know, so they feel more comfortable as well. Absolutely. Thank you for for now, Linda. Yeah, Nancy, a senior vice commander in a position of leadership within DAV. Why do you think it's important that we have women leading in these in these communities? I think being an example and showing that we can achieve leadership roles in DAV and helping other women just just being an example and being there shows women that you can do this, you can strive to be part of DAV, your voice will be heard. You can set situations where men, like Belinda said, men don't always think of these things where women can come forward and express their concerns about their service, about their situation as veterans, what they need, because I myself have not served in a combat area like Naomi. And so we need all women to come together to give us that information and to help us. And as myself being an example that you can move up in leadership roles. I was probably the fourth department commander in Utah, a woman commander. So some states are moving slower than others. But if you don't show people that it can be done, they may not strive for it. And that's what we're doing is encouraging other women to be a part of DAV and the pursuit of rights for women veterans. Absolutely. And going back to the idea of making your your voices heard, it's not just that we need women leading in DAV and we're all just talking to each other, right? We are taking our voices and our shared concerns to legislators and to policymakers. And I think it's critical that women are part of that conversation, of course. Are there any women veterans? And Nancy, I'll start with you, who have been instrumental in your own lives or military careers that you'd like to shout out today? Yes, definitely. Delphine Metcalfoster, the first woman commander of DAV or of any veteran service organization at the time she served. So she's a great example. She paved the way for a lot of us to do the things that we do today. So she's a great example, a great mentor for me. And I really appreciate her service in the military as well as with DAV to provide that example for the rest of us. Belinda Ornami, is there anyone that comes to mind for you today? Well, I'm going to I'm going to have to go with Nancy as far as Delphine was our first female commander that DAV that I've known DAV to have. And the only one so far, Nancy, your nicks. OK. And I think it's it was just that honor of meeting her. And it was just like that ceiling just just cracked, you know, that it started showing us that, hey, we are important that some organization is recognizing. And I don't know if the DAV I haven't really did the research of the DAV is the only organization that first just got a female, you know? I don't know if the other organizations had them before us. But, you know, if it if they haven't, I'm glad that we came on board. Yeah, I know Delphine was the first woman elected to lead any major VSO at the time. I'm not I'm not sure since then. But Naomi, anyone you'd like to shout out? Definitely, I mean, come on. And anyone that has met her, can I tell a quick funny story? So I was I used to be in Mississippi. I was a transition service officer as a benefits advocate in Mississippi. And we had the VA at our state convention. And, you know, I had some pressing questions that I really wanted them to answer. And I knew I wouldn't get any any other chance. And so I stood up in the middle of everyone and I said, yes, I have a question. You know, how about that? You know, whatever the issue was. And they came back and they were pretty shocked because I came with some facts behind it and I sat down and all of a sudden I see Delphine. She was the commander at the time and she just to make some beeline straight for me. I mean, the VA hadn't even finished answering my question yet. And she just and she says, can I see you outside? And I said, oh, this is it. I'm done. My job is over. It's been a good run. And so she takes me outside. She says, come on, let's go have a cup of coffee. And she proceeds to have a one hour conversation on how with me on how I could use the big mouth that I have, that how I could use it for the good of other veterans, you know, and and and really in the organization and, you know, farther than than even where I had been. In other words, use that voice to reach the masses. And so now, you know, here I am up on Capitol Hill. So it was like she it really drove me to to do more. So that's that's my Delphine story. I really thought that she was going to, you know, make a phone call and say, all right, she this is this woman's crazy. But she did and I love her. And she continues to be a mentor to this day. Also, I want to give a shout out to somebody that normally doesn't get in and that that's Joy. My my National Legislative Director, Joy Elam, she's been doing this for almost 30 years. So think about it. Davy is a little over 100 years old. Women veterans, women were, you know, that were allowed to serve in the military just 75 years ago. Joy's been doing this for 30 years. And Davy is seen as a leader in women veterans issues. And it is all thanks to Joy Elam. So I definitely want to want to give her give her her roses, as they say. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Joy and Delphine, they're they're here in spirit, certainly. I also wanted to note, you know, something that I'm sure you've all heard Delphine say, which is a child cannot be what a child cannot see. It goes back to that idea of, you know, setting an example and just showing others behind you that something can be done and it sounds like, you know, that's been an influential for all of you. I also want to shout out a good friend of DAVs. I mentioned before, Military Women's Memorial, which is dedicated to preserving the stories of women who served. And again, just going back to that idea of it's so important to show each other what we're capable of and to share our stories and you can find them at women's memorial dot org. I will also go into Women's Memorial here later. There's an event coming up, so I'm going to see Phyllis Wilson and I will definitely make mention of what you just said. And Phyllis Wilson, another incredible woman who served, who we can we can all look up to and certainly thank on a day like today. So we know that that reaching women veterans and letting them know about the resources that are even available to them can be a challenge. Some struggle to, you know, really embrace that identity of being a veteran and calling themselves a veteran. How do you think we can do a better job of reaching those women? And Nancy, I'll start with you. When I left the military, I needed a job and there was no jobs dot DAV dot org to help me with their events and things that they hold job fairs and things like that. Those didn't exist. I think women in the area of being examples, being benefits advocates for DAV and showing that we're here. We represent you. We're here to help you. And so just helping women that are veterans find the benefits they need and get the benefits that they're entitled to definitely. So more women in those areas. I know DAV has a lot of things. Patriot boot camp for entrepreneurs, just inviting more women into DAV so that they can take advantage of all of these events that we have and providing for them. Women benefits advocates like Naomi and Belinda have both been to serve women and make them feel comfortable identifying what happened to them while they were in military service. A lot of women don't want to talk to a man about their military sexual trauma and what they went through and how they're dealing with that. So women being available to help them is something that we can do to reach women and letting them know that they're welcome here at DAV and there's a lot of us here to help them and answer their questions. And I'll open this our last question up to everyone. Why is it important that we get this right? That we make the military and veteran communities welcoming supportive places for women? What what's at stake here? Well, what's at stake is basically the future of women veterans. And if we don't strive for what is needed right now, our future women. I have some cousins that have children, daughters that have joined the military. And if we don't provide for them now, let them know that they're welcome, let them know that their service counts and that we appreciate their service, it could be dangerous to let them fall by the wayside. We need to take care of the women of the future. Naomi or Belinda, anything to add to that or any closing thoughts as we reflect on the 75th anniversary? I think that we have to make the women feel welcome of the community and not just the community, though, the VA, the VA is striving. I will say that as far as some of the procedures that they're doing to open up to the women veterans in each VA hospital is going to be different. But somehow or another, they need to all get on some of the same sheet of music when it comes to having the correct facilities, the correct equipment to be able to service women veterans. Because if they don't, we right now women veterans, there's a lot of them that don't use the VA medical centers. And that's because of the service and the equipment and the doctors, they have to. They're going to have to figure this out and get more doctors, more of the equipment that we are looking for. Are we going to go out into the civilian sector to get our treatment? And we don't want that. We do want to use the VA, but we want all of our treatment done there. Yeah, to your point, certainly there are many women who've had wonderful experiences with the VA. It does sometimes depend on where you are and which facilities you use. So, yeah, I think more more consistency are getting on the same sheet of music, as you said. Naomi, I'll let you close it out for us. Any last thoughts? It is so important for us to get this right because, you know, it's not what it used to be. We've we've come so far, you know, and veteran service organizations are not you just the old old guys with, you know, the hats with all the pins. Like, that's all I knew a veteran service organization to be. And in that mold, I mean, that's broken. That's it. Look at us. This is just this is just a small example of who we are. We range in ages. We range in ethnicity. We range in male, female, you know, however you identify. And so veteran service organizations are a snapshot of what we were in the military. And the military is a snapshot of the bigger community. And so we're all different kinds of people that, you know, all come into to one place and have this camaraderie of this, you know, similar experiences. And really, we really need to be an example, as Nancy said, be an example and show that, look, you know, the weather is fine over here. And and and we would and truly VA even would not be where it is now. Have it had it not been for veteran service organizations pushing for, you know, better benefits, better facilities, inclusiveness, anti harassment. So so in order to continue that work, we need the new veterans that are coming into into this space, we need you to come help us to help the next generation because, you know, we need to protect our legacy. And and what was not, you know, all of that for other than to, you know, this is our legacy. And so this is how we're going to we're going to protect it and make sure that we continue to get it right. And if we're not getting it right, well, let's try to get it right. That's a great place to end. I think Nancy, Naomi, Belinda, thank you all so much for your service and for the work that you continue to do with DAV and for veterans. Thank you all for watching. You can learn more about DAV's resources at DAV.org and specifically for what DAV does for women veterans at DAV.org slash women dash veterans. Thank you.