 agenda to play here and I know as you were a little bit sensitive to that today in the comments I read read and we covered your crowd chat at Oskon and a lot of people don't understand that the standards are changing And that the communities are driving it and voices need to be heard and then you have perspective someone who's building clouds So what is the key issue here that people need to understand around the debate and what's the core thing that's being discussed? As far as I'm concerned, it's really simple I want customers to be able to tell us to vote with their feet on which APIs and what architectures they want in OpenStack, which means it needs to continue to be very pluggable It needs to support a large number of different APIs It needs to have a whole bunch of different potential architectures that can be used with it Possibly using ref stack so that we can actually let customers You know show us what they want with their feet like my only agenda is that I believe that ultimately that will wind up being the AWS reference architecture with it combined with the AWS APIs That's my only agenda, but I'm willing to play you know play that out in the marketplace via customer adoption One of the questions that's always come up is the best thing about open source and open stack in particular There's no one vendor controls it. That's an ethos of open source Amazon. Obviously a big player in the market You got some other big players in there HB Rackspace and you guys are in there as well with open stack But why not just put a wrapper around these APIs? What is it seems trivial to me that what's the big debate about? Why are people getting all they're all Crazy about this. I don't know the EC2 APIs that are in OpenStack have been stable for since a very beginning for years They equate to the functionality of the EC2 2009 API. They've been rock-solid The testing has been in existing the system since the very beginning the amount of overhead to maintain them is minimal to none There's been hardly any work on them, and they still work. So there's a lot of time It seems to come down to either ideology or people just really not understanding that you know We can do both we can support the open stack native APIs as well as the AWS APIs and probably others It's not really a lot of code. That's not where the dangers are the dangers are actually in the architecture And so that's where we need something like ref stack to help us out Well for the folks out there watching if you're watching this go to the crowd chat net slash open stack because we're going to be live with the Timed chat conversation if you want your voice to be heard go there. That's an on the record Randy folks We're looking for you to come on the crowd chat They were watching the stream It also wanted to get to the crowd chat if you have some time jump on the crowd chat net Log in with Twitter you'll see the threads there some specific pointed questions, and that's going to be on for another hour So appreciate your leadership, and you know what I've been watching your career I really think highly of you and your company and this is what it's all about the new democratization about open source and Congratulations for raising the issue up and we'll be following it. Thanks a lot. Thanks. Congratulations. Okay. We're silicon angle This is the cube live here in San Francisco to cover the big debate. We're going to try to get Boris Boris Get you on over here Right here. So we're live here on the post game Coverage of the big debate. So you kind of knocked him early down. You got a few points in the early round there well, I mean the whole thing is a little bit bizarre because For me coming into this debate. It wasn't 100% clear. What kind of a starting point is what are we what are we What are we arguing against? There was more almost like a panel where we're discussing the API stuff, but technically Randy made his original kind of manifesto and a lot of people misinterpreted my suspicion is that They interpreted correctly, but he just decided to kind of rewrite it from a different view point and then the second Rewriting of it is based largely on the user comments actually that were given there and it's very much in line with I think my Perception of things and a community perception of things So what what the debate was about is a little bit unclear. It's kind of a tactical things around the edges more like So let me ask you a question. So you guys are doing very well in the cloud Obviously, you know, there's a demand for open stack clearly so But there's a lot of confusion a lot of these in industry standards bodies in the past We're handled kind of in a smoky back room these standards bodies, but now it's all out in the open That's the beautiful thing about what we're here tonight is that this conversations out in the open What is the key enablement of open stack? There's still some white space in there I see you got VMware out there with their cloud. There's some alternatives out there to Azure The world wants an open non-controllable standard not by one vendor What's your take on that? Yes, I mean I it is completely correct There is a I touched upon it during the debate a little bit There is a I think a couple of things that have propelled the open stack community forward early on and One is the fact that it's extremely open and at the same time flexible it's like this framework that allows you to you know get 80% of the way to the cloud and Make the 20% of the decisions and leave it up to you and control your roadmap The second is really been kind of a the pent up hate for VMware So VMware has been notorious to extracting a lot of money out of the customers being a little bit screwy with their partners and a lot of the demand that we see is the customers coming in and Asking us for open stack as a VMware replacement and actually it's not necessarily a good thing because open stack is not a VMware replacement that kind of a Completely different architectural paradigm to begin with but nevertheless This this kind of a mentality being there in the market desire for openness and desire to get rid of VMware is what's been propelling Open stack community forward in my opinion Boris congratulations great job up there. You had a good job. Thank you very much for a debate. Thanks for coming on This is Silicon angles coverage Silicon angle dot TV's coverage of the great debate open stack same This is open stack and I just want to say that you know that we're here because this is where the action is and more importantly The standards bodies of old are extinct and the new standards are being generated by the communities and it needs to be Document and go to Silicon angle comm youtube.com slash Silicon angle for the on-demand coverage And then go to crowd chat dot net slash open stack It's open for one more hour get on the record. We're gonna close that down. It's gonna be a closed timed event Do you want to be heard threading conversations there? We're great. Okay, so we're here. I'm our thanks for hosting here see gate Evault great event a lot of a lot of people right on the right out of the gate really like the takedown from Boris and some cat calls in the back early. Yes A lot of language. Oh, yeah. Yeah a lot a lot of energy a lot of passion, you know open stack is a very exciting topic and Today's debate was a really hot one. So normally we don't get these many people today was a pretty big turnout Well, Silicon angle loves debates. We had the queue we go to the events now We're gonna go out and with the action is and like we always say where the action is where people want to know What the conversations are but what was your take you were in the front row? You're hosting here. What was your takeaway from the whole audience here today? You know, I think Joe started off Summarizing the issues and I think it really ended up being a much more elaborate discussion around those issues and the issues are Compatibility versus innovation, right? That's really what it boiled down to and At some level I think the Two guys Boris and Randy agreed more than the disagreed But it just the way it was set up They were supposed to debate because the fundamentally agreed that look you can have API compatibility But not architecture you can do one and the second together So net net I you know, I think it was pretty good I think my takeaway was you had Randy's the heavyweight and Boris was the fast lightweight He was a very fast puncher on the ropes a lot But coming out punching quick good arm arms arm arm arm length But Randy's got the knockout blow there and he has the knockout punch and he ends up winning it at the end So I got to say Randy bias won the crowd. Thanks for hosting really appreciate it. This is SiliconANGLE coverage Joe come in here Joe Arnold the host Joe great great job great job. You know, we're The lights the I mean this is not a typical Open-stack meetup by any stretch imagine you guys like Cape hair shoot it in and set all this stuff This is what the Cube does the Cube goes with the action is and one of we're passionate about open source We love computer science. We love the new social science democratization of media And but we're really passionate about open standards are being decided by the crowd So what's our obligation to document that you guys put together a great meetup here in San Francisco? Nonetheless is the epicenter. This is where the cloud club started. I was part of that back in 09 James Waters myself Nate and Hoff and those all the guys Rodriguez all those guys so Tell me about your philosophy coming in here because you know It kind of got built up to be a debate a little bit of a heavy-weight fight But for the most part they kind of agree but at the end of the day There's a big debate around developers and ecosystem. What's your take on it? Well, I think I think we're all gonna have pretty boring opinion You know because we're all in it to serve what our customers want and each of them are coming up with us with very Specific perspectives and what they want us to do some of I guess Boris He talked about the customers that he was coming against they weren't really hitting up against needing to be a bws compatible Randy and I We are we're pulling people off of Amazon all the time because the cost of Running in Amazon as these as these softwares of service companies get to scale these enterprises get to scale It just becomes so cost prohibitive. So what we're seeing is we're needing to hold back people who May have grown up on Amazon But now they're starting to consider options to bring their infrastructure and house and and so I think that probably kicked off the debate in terms of Hey, should we put more emphasis on making that on ramp more smooth? Yeah, I think I wired wrote a story today But kind of you know a little kindergarten version of cloud But I'll kind of summarize what the trend is what you just said is is that people use Amazon because it's easy to get Going but when you hit scale challenges when you were rocket ship you got to have a hybrid you got to have on-premise You have bare metal, but you still not going to give up the cloud You got to use the cloud bursting on-demand disaster recovery different architectures. I wrote a blog post about that today So, you know, obviously the world's growing. So it's not a mutually exclusive situation So given that there's need for customization people want to have their own cloud But yet have the benefits of Amazon So what a lot of people want to know is is there innovation or is it a stalemate when we have these kinds of conversations? When you have these kind of debates around frameworks, does it grind it to a halt? Where's the accelerant? Is it you go on 55 miles an hour then pedal to the metal? Are you slowing down speeding up all the above? You know, I mean, I have to blend that question in this that in the previous question in this one, right? so Randy and I represent product companies and and Boris was representing certain more services orientation, right and There man customization is the king and they're building out exactly what that customer wants And at least what we're we're focusing in on is so the people who are coming off of estuary They're looking for a heck of a lot of cost efficiency Operational efficiency, and you only get through that through standardization from a product perspective, right? And yeah, there's there's open-stack ecosystem, and there's going to be a lot of options There's always going to be a lot of options to people to build what they want, but it's an inherently complex set of services and you look at all the pieces a Shop needs to put together to assemble a whole. Oh my gosh. It's just mind-blowing and so I Think that more broadly it's it's not going to be about necessarily the open-stack foundation or technical group Deciding. Hey is this open-stack compatible or not? How do we come up with a solution? How do we solve the complexity challenges? How do we get on on board whether that's coming off Amazon or or deploying ourselves? Well folks out there. I just want to share with you something some insight into all this backdrop one the software is free Okay, at the end of the day, it's free software. It's open-source. So these are guys that are contributing free software That's going to enhance innovations. That's going to squash the innovation question. Secondly. I want to give you guys props You guys are CEOs of companies. You guys are founders of companies and this isn't like they work for some company They're hacking their hacks on a standards buddy. These are real guys. You guys are real entrepreneurs I want to say thanks our pleasure to be here They're co-founders their CEOs their entrepreneurs making it happen here in San Francisco. We're at the San Francisco open-stack meetup This is Silicon Angles coverage Joe. Thanks so much for hosting guys Thanks for watching go to crowd chat.net be heard on the record got another 45 minutes or so get your questions out there Get the credit conversation and vote for the best thread you like That's going to be the official on record Twitter chat crowd chat.net slash open-stack signing out from San Francisco. Good night Thanks for watching