 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today is January 4, 2021 and the UK court has decided that Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, will not be extradited to the United States. Now this is quite a significant verdict because over the past many months, there's been a hearing, there's been a lot of arguments and there was a lot of doubt whether this verdict would come out or whether the extradition would actually proceed. So to talk more about this, we have with Renata Avila who is one of the legal advisors to Julian Assange. Thank you so much, Renata, for speaking to us. Thank you for having me here. It's amazing to be on this side of the screen. I'm always on that side of the screen watching all the amazing things that you are reporting all the time all over the world about social justice issues. Thank you so much. Yeah, it is an exciting day in a sense. I mean, it is the first positive resolution from a UK court in 10 years for Julian, but also, you know, it's a big reflection that makes me angry, you know, like, because it has been 10 years of this fight, 10 years of a life of somebody who should be like, you know, battling the bad guys out and working in news outlets like this one and revolution in journalism as he was doing. So it has been 10 years of an interrupted life and not only interrupted life, but of an interrupted purpose and mission that he had in life. And that was the whole objective, right? Punishment by process. So today is something important for the people watching to understand it's not a final decision. This decision could and will be appealed by the Department of Justice of the US, even if they know that they are going to lose most likely. And the second important clarification that is very important for people to bear in mind, we are not disputing the facts here. We are not defending yet the right to publish here. The only question that was in the hands of the UK is whether a person charged by the crimes that he has been charged, which is basically to publish and to protect journalist sources, should be extradited to the US or should be protected because of political reasons. And all the arguments submitted by the defense explaining to the court that what he's doing him is the best form of journalism, that what he's doing is in the public interest, that he didn't harm anybody, that it was all done legally. All of this today was dismissed. So even if I'm happy because the answer was a no to extradition is bad news for journalism. Why is it bad news? Because the only reason that the court took and the only reason why the extradition has been denied is because he's in a really bad shape and he's at suicide risk. And the conditions of prisons, as we all know in the US, do not meet the standards that will not guarantee that he's not, he will not kill himself. So it is a very sad in a way judgment. I mean, it was just a humanitarian reason to keep him alive and save his life basically. But we lost somehow, we lost all the journalistic arguments. And that only consolidates this news imperialism that the US wants for all of us. Why? Because the publications were not published from the US, were not published by a US citizen. It was completely outside US publications about matters that matter to the rest of the world. And that's what is being persecuted and persecuted here. So in a way, it is a good day for human rights about day for journalism somehow. Because what will happen is that if you are under the same circumstances, you will be punished. If you are on this exact same circumstances, you will be affected. Absolutely right. And in this context, I think the immediate question is of the appeal itself, which the United States is definitely likely to file in this process. So based on today's ruling, what kind of a chance does the appeal process itself have? Because the judges, like you said, given a very, in some senses, a divided ruling where she's basically accepted all the arguments that the prosecution has put forward, but then made the point about Julian's life being at risk of suicide because the prison conditions. So in terms of the appeal process, what exactly are the possibilities? Well, Julian is in solid ground because the ruling of the Minor Court, it is consistent with recent rulings of higher courts in the Lori Love case. And that means that he's more likely to, that argument is 99% probabilities to prevail. But now we have a complication because we don't know if he will be granted bail. We think that is the only just thing. I mean, he has been like in these conditions for so long, there's COVID pandemic. We really hope that consistent to the decision that the judge let him be on their house arrest or even just the military arrest during this time, if he's able to circulate, to go to universities, give talks, like activate his life back, get his life back. Even these minimum things going to the beach and playing with his children in the park, these minimum things that he could enjoy again. Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. We will know a UK time in the morning on Wednesday, Wednesday the 6th. Absolutely. Right. And in this context, like you pointed out, I think there's a huge challenge for journalism itself in the coming months and years because what was and has and is celebrated as a very legitimate form of journalism has basically been criminalized in this verdict for lack of better words because whether it be protecting sources, whether it be like you said, talking about news from around the world, which countries affecting around the world, all that has been just bundled into criminal activity under the name of hacking as well. Yeah, exactly. And it is, it is, it is so treacherous because it is like the same gate keepers want to keep the privilege to publish and be the only ones doing it. And basically independent media is a threat to this model. And social media has only contributed to the concentration of power of the powerful actors and projects like WikiLeaks not relying on advertising or algorithms or data mining from the people reading them at really challenging the business model, really challenging hierarchies. You cannot buy journalism because people are supporting this kind of journalism. And it's not self stack, you know, and it's not these closed compartments for those who can only those who can pay it is something openly supported by the people all over the world. So I can only hope, I can only hope that WikiLeaks survives and reinvents itself and challenges power as it has done it in the resistance side for 10 years. Thank you so much for speaking to us. Thank you. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching People's Dispatch.