 The only easy day was yesterday Welcome to the only easy day was yesterday the official Navy SEAL podcast In 2015 the Department of Defense announced that they were opening frontline combat roles to women for the first time in American history In 2016 they were given the opportunity to apply to the Navy SEALs and SWIC But female sailors have deployed with SEAL teams in other special operations units for years in important frontline roles In this episode I speak with two such women who have deployed multiple times with America's elite special operations units and still serve with them today First you'll hear from Janelle who is serving on active duty with the training staff at Buds Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today I know you have a pretty unique perspective and so let's start out with you just telling us a little bit about what you do How you got to where you are a little background? Sure I've worked within SW in the past. My last command was here in Coronado. So that's the SWIC command And I was approached from my command-master chief about the women in special forces And if I wanted to support that initiative and come to the center and kind of be in the role where you Establish the the transition from just a male pipeline to open it to females. So obviously I was totally Totally on board with going over to the center just because I love the community and wanted to stay within it and Yeah, support the whole full integration of women and what attracted you to this community. What was it about it? When I first joined the Navy, I just really wanted to do anything that was active and physically demanding I played sports in college and Pretty much my whole life crossfit things like that. So I was drawn to the physicality and also To be quite honest. I didn't want to be on a ship when you are Undeployment or in operation in operational zones. What would you say life is like? What's your everyday life that you can talk about it's been mostly with SEAL teams deployment and then also EOD So a normal day really is a normal night. Most everything is done at night on deployment and It's I think I have a unique deployment Experience just because deploying with a SEAL team is just such a close-knit group You're you become like almost a family especially because it's such a small small group But yeah, the days are days are long, you know, I spend a lot of time in the tactical operations center Just I do intelligence And really just supporting the troop as much as I can for their operations. Can you explain a little bit what intelligence means? Sure. So intelligence in the Navy is just basically analyzing threats and in a tactical sense targeting essentially the enemy forces you Mentioned how important it is the camaraderie that happens when you're on these missions But can you talk about the importance of teamwork, especially from the perspective of someone that is Being attached to different teams at different times. How does that work the dynamic? Yeah, I think teamwork is the reason this community is so successful I think from a very beginning you you start doing everything together, you know and you embrace Like I didn't go through buds obviously But you do go through work ups on deployment and it kind of sucks So what I like to say is you embrace the suck together and you you certainly build a trust in camaraderie with one another so where you gain credibility and People learn to trust you, you know and see if you're good at your job I think that if you don't have that, you know, you're not going to be very successful in this type of community because Everything is built off personal relationships and teamwork How do you feel? What's your method for establishing trust since it's so important? I think for me I just go in super humble and every Every experience and every opportunity, you know, if I don't know something I'll be the first to say I don't know it But I'm super eager to learn and in this community I think is if you do have like the urge to do something and want to learn something Then you'll be super successful. You just have to have the motivation I think that that's what makes it stand out from other commands in the Navy It's super happy to come to work and be a part of the team. I think you just feel You're contributing to something a lot bigger than yourself Amazing. How do you prepare for that mentally and physically? for deployment Well, like I said, you know, you become close and then it just becomes before you go You mean right yeah training phase. Yeah, you get pretty close with your troops spend a lot of time together. Maybe too much time but You just develop a sense of like unity and camaraderie. He'd use that word over and over again, but it really Has been something that I've really really really enjoyed at this command Is there anything that stands out to you? You know or or talking to young people who might just be considering a career in this direction some day Is there anything Recently that you could just makes you feel proud of of doing what you do be at the center Just to clarify when she says center She's referring to the Naval Special Warfare Center the seal and SWCC training headquarters. I'm You know pretty proud every day you you see these students training every day like given Everything they got I would hate to be in their shoes to be quite honest, but they It's something to be said, you know, you get to see them coming from boot camp and then You know training for 63 weeks and then Finally they pin on a trident and you've you know kind of gone through that whole procedure with them and provided sports you know because Seal teams wouldn't be able to do much of anything and SWCC without support So I think that that's super important is just coming to work wanting to support the operators and then also having that good working relationship and So if someone you know who maybe doesn't know a ton about this but has Seen a few things on TV or movies and they're just interested. What would you say to them? How would you start the conversation? I think it's super nerve-wracking to even want to get into this type of community but the scout team the website and the people involved in the recruiting and The instructors are really knowledgeable So I just you know urge them to just take a chance and reach out and get some information even if it's kind of nerve-wracking and intimidating because it is for I think most people you know when they think of like The Navy in general like majority of the population isn't even Can't even you know pass the standards to get in and those certain few who are to get in this community It's even a little tighter, but just take a chance and Give it a try one thing that has come up a lot and in particular with the seals and SWCC is Mentorship and even though you didn't go through buds you have you are following a very similar track. Do you Do you think mentorship is important in the way that you've gone about things? Oh, yes. I think it's Absolutely pivotal on being successful in the Navy and especially for like this type of community those guys The candidates get mentorship from pretty much the second they walk into your recruiting office They have a really good warrior challenge program There's guys all over the country who provide mentorship from the second they sign up and then For support side B, you know, I've had a lot of mentors in this community Throughout my entire career who I've kept in touch with and then you just see them checking in to be an instructor You know, it's like you cross paths again and just Yeah, it's it's I think mentorship is Really invaluable in this community and in general. What are some of the ways that that has changed your experience? I guess with me I had a particular incident on deployment where I had to fly home really quickly and They provided support that I was unimaginable and it's something that I'll certainly never forget and developed a sense of just really a lot of pride and you know Comfortability and they just support the members so so incredibly and I think that that's What draws me to this community so much and it just kind of transfers over I guess your question was about mentorship But yeah, I think the trust and mentorship kind of go hand-in-hand. So Just having that trusting relationship where you respect somebody. I think they naturally become a mentor and you If you look back at how you got to where you are What would you do the same? What would you do differently for me? I don't think I'd do anything differently I just love the community and turns out it worked out really well, you know made chief got to do several deployments So I don't think I would change much maybe deploy a couple more times That'll come hopefully soon, but we'll see. Well, we wish you luck on that What kind of advice would you give to people who are interested in the same career path? I would certainly say to follow what interests you and Then I think good things will follow if you just Have a good work ethic, you know and but a lot of people they take jobs To promote while I take jobs for quality of life and experience And that's worked out for me. So I think more so instead of just trying to move up in ranks as quick as you can really go somewhere where you'll have a good experience and learn a lot more than just Raising your hand to do any opportunity to promote If we could take it back a few steps You have some great advice on following what you're passionate about What about before you ever get to that point before you ever actually come into the military? If someone's considering the career, what are some steps that you would say in the civilian world? Someone should take to prepare themselves properly and be ready for it, right? Yeah, that's a good question So I grew up in sports all my life Individual sports and team sports and I think that helped a lot when I got to boot camp And then further in commands just because you have you have an understanding of how a team works And what it takes to get a job done Most everything in the military is not done individually. It is a team effort So I think if you have that understanding of of teamwork and what it means to be a Good part of a team an effective team member. I think you'll you'll really go far and then also The mental toughness piece has become Huge and pretty much a buzzword. It seems like in this command, but I think it really really helps To just understand that everything For me. I just kind of tell myself It's all gonna end in a couple of hours, you know, like the day whatever task you're doing I think it's important just to be like mentally tough and try to increase your mental strength if you're speaking specifically to the females who might want to follow in your footsteps Is is it different? Do they have to look at things differently? Do you feel like they should just tackle it the same way? I think just being You know female in the military You you're still a minority and although the numbers are increasing There's there's something to be said about minorities You might have to work a little harder or feel like you have to work a little harder But again, it's kind of like math and numbers, you know, you're outnumbered a bit So do your best to stand out and do your job as best you can and I think your credibility and You know how how well you get the job done will speak for itself Have you run into any? Obstacles because of that or how do have you dealt with that? You know, I Never have really had any instances where I felt there was an equality barrier Again, I attribute that to the this community that I've been in throughout my whole career, you know From when I was super young Coming out of boot camp then go on to ISA school. I Checked into a command and two weeks later. I deployed And it was a little nerve-wracking, but Yeah, it was just acceptance into the team and then I Never I never felt like I was behind the power curve for being a female didn't have time to think about it Yeah, I felt like You know, like I said, you establish yourself as a working professional and somebody who's respectful and then It kind of just follows easily Do you think that that's the case for most women? I Guess I can't speak to their experience, but Again, mine mine has been exceptionally favorable and I don't really have any negative things to say for me It's it's been really good. So something someone might not know as a female attached to a special operations team Are you expected to be at the same physical level? You expected to pass the same test or how does that work? No, we're not like I said the standards are a bit different And we don't have to take the PSTs or anything like that but here like PT is just really Pushed, you know, and it's at you have every opportunity to get faster to get stronger. You know, we have like running coaches and strength coaches and all and so yeah, I think it's a huge advantage than just a regular like Navy command but They don't look at you differently or I've never been looked at differently just because I can't bust out 25 pull-ups like But the buds instructor next to me working out and that's attributed to the nature of what you do versus what some of the other Teammates are doing or maybe yeah, I think that everybody here is just I guess they don't really lead with their physical strength You know, it's more of like a functional strength and functional like Your job whatever you need to do your job is how you're I guess looked at so somebody who works in admin I just guess there wouldn't be an expectation of them to Deadlift their body weight times too. No, that's a helpful insight because just because you're aligned with a SEAL team It you know, obviously you're all being held to very high standards physically and mentally But it's good for people to understand that there are differences depending on what you're doing on deployment. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I Wouldn't I would never try to compete against a SEAL beside me But um, you know the workouts are together and everybody kind of encourages everybody to be in the best shape you can Regardless of if you work in admin or supply or Intel or ops, you know Everybody is physically pretty on par with supporting one another and do you are there different tests that you have along the way to To keep you in a certain kind of shape like there's certain minimum pull-ups and things like that that you have to stick to No, we just do the standard Navy test and then Other instructors some females are in instructor roles at the center and during The instructor qualification course you take the TAP assessment, which is a tactical athlete assessment and it's Basically a point scale and from there you just kind of get a workout program to increase yourself To be a better instructor if you will so what I'm hearing that I think is really important to reiterate for anyone who might be listening is that you As a woman you might be intimidated by this community because it's it is very male dominated But there are a lot of different jobs associated with Special operations and so it's not just being a SEAL or being Sweat kids. It's a lot of different things. And so you have a wide variety to choose from absolutely and In this W has been integrated for such a long time that it's really common place to see women everywhere and Like I said, you're supported, you know, if you if you do your job. Well It's a really like close-knit supportive type community. That's really great to hear Do you think that that seems like something that's changed pretty rapidly in the last what would you say? Five years or yeah, I guess I've been in about 12 years and I Now I see like much more women, you know, in like what seems like naval special warfare With great good. Yeah, I think there's no Closed rates or anything. What would you say to a friend of yours a female friend who said that they want to be a Navy SEAL? I would say that's awesome. Do it I think that there are certainly quality quality candidates male and female, you know Who need to still join the ranks of SEALs and diversify it a little bit more and Be even a stronger force and they already are with the diversity nice Well, so let's go back to where we were Do you have any just what's your favorite thing about doing what you do What do you just what do you love about it? What wakes you up in the morning? Honestly, my favorite thing about This community is deploying I I love to deploy and people looking me like I'm crazy But I think it's where you get to really do your job and you really develop that closeness For each day It's really interacting with The people I work with like I like it I think that some people, you know, I hear like nightmare stories like about co-workers and how they just don't get along And they dislike them. I think that it's pretty terrible And I do love the fact that I can work out Every day and have like an awesome facility and awesome coaches You know At my disposal pretty much and you mentioned before just the quality of people that you're around all the time Yeah, that would be the most part and that's why I hope that I can stay in this community till retirement Seems like you got a pretty good chance Um, what else would you like to say this is, you know, I'd like to give you an opportunity to just Speak about, you know, this community that you love so much and what what you would say to someone, you know Say I'm 20 years old and just thinking about my options in life. What's your advice? I would say Even though it just changed, you know, the doors just opened and it is something new for females don't want that to deter you. Like I said, my experience has been Incredible and I think that somebody who has a heart to do this and who's motivated and dedicated really And has that teamwork aspect down. I think that it could be a really exciting career And again, like just diversity makes any force to be reckoned with and it's what allows you to really just Capitalize on on all types of talents in all types of characteristics. So I think that if it's your dream then just follow it, you know and Yeah, I'm excited to be a part of this community and I think that You know people who are motivated and who do meet the standards. They should just should just go for it You said something that I think is really important that I want to just expand on a little bit The diversity makes a better force Can you just Give me a little more detail about what that means, especially from your perspective. Yeah, absolutely. I think that every person brings something different to the table and You know for their the future female operators can Can really do something that maybe male operators couldn't in the past. I think people who have certain language skills and We have students who have gone to like MIT and Harvard, you know There's just there's just a lot of talent and I think that the diversity of talent is is what makes the Navy in general so so amazing, you know and really capable a capable force and Especially the quality of person that comes to screen for Seal and SWIC and the support people here and Civilian staff here, you know, everybody just has something to really offer and it's just like in a pretty Pretty stand-out team That's so inspirational It feels it feels like a very welcoming environment here For me, I really don't have anything negative to say. It's it's been I Would say the highlight of my career, but it's been my whole career. So Would you say there's any barriers for females? No, I think this has been a big learning opportunity for you know, the staff and community as a whole There hasn't been any barriers. It's just been an opportunity to improve training overall and that's what Naval Special Warfare Center and Everybody else has done. It's just a more dignified training environment, but Any specific barriers related to opening to females? I don't think so at all Like I said, it's been integrated for some time now and it's it's really just common to see Female sailors and female support staff all over the place What do you think the best pathway is to be accepted by this community? I would say Job competence and work ethic It doesn't really matter where you come from What your gender is anything as long as you can do your job well and perform a part of the team You're gonna be accepted and welcomed so essentially the The acceptance is based on your ability to make the team better and to to be successful in the mission exactly Most people, you know who want to be involved in Naval Special Warfare Our mission focused and excited to be a part of the mission. So I think that that goes a long way But also knowing your job well Our next guest also works alongside a SEAL team, but her role is quite different She provides direct in the field support to ensure that our SEAL and SWCC team's missions are successful in the short term and long term Well first I want to thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited about this Particular podcast because you're doing such interesting things all over the world. Thank you So can you start by telling us about well first of all introduce yourself and tell us what you do in the organization that you work for? Great sounds good. Thank you for having me and for taking the time to hear my story So my name is Nicolette and I am a reservist with SEAL team here in Coronado And in my civilian job, I'm a field operations project manager for a nonprofit We do a lot of humanitarian aid and economic development non-lethal assistance to deployed US military and troops basically wherever they're deployed And they need help resistance to make their mission like more successful in the field This seems this is a side of special operations. I don't think a lot of people know about right and so Is this more common than people think this kind of the other side of things when you're in country? It's hard to say depending on where special operations are deployed a lot of them are working in really small Areas that are very vulnerable and their goal is to kind of build the rapport with the local population and foster their relationship with their partner forces That they're training so, you know, they're deployed all around the world and some of the worst parts in the worst areas And while they're there their goal is to you know help train their partner force and help, you know build their capacity so that those countries know how to operate effectively and You know connect with their populations if that makes sense. Yeah Yeah, interesting that you're a woman working with special forces, but then also needing to be an expert in the cultures that you're adapting to Does that is that like a lot of mental work for you as you're going into these situations? I? think yes, yes When I went to Iraq to support obviously there's Different religions and so the cultural sensitivity of working with many different Religions with the all-female unit. I mean you just have to think through those cultural sensitivities, you know But I think a lot of that goes back to our training When I was in the Navy active duty and when we went through that course They gave us a lot of training on just cultural Sensitivities and you know what to prepare for so I think that helped a lot with the transition And then so have you all it when you were active duty? Were you also working with special forces or was that a different? No, okay? No, so I did four years just driving small boats and I deployed Once to Africa for about a year just working like Harbor security small 26-foot boats And then I went into the Navy Reserve Which is where there was a screening for the cultural support unit to come in as Female enablers to enable special warfare if we could talk a little bit about like the unique perspective you have your female who's been in the Navy who is attached to Seal and SWCC teams in country all over the place Does it feel like you're part of the team? Does it feel like you're an outsider? How does it feel? I? Think that's a really good question actually No matter what position I'm in whether it be you know in uniform or out of uniform you always have to prove yourself That's one thing. I always notice across the board Which for me I thrive on that. I that's just the way I grew up You know my mom was a police officer So I just I've always pushed myself and I've always been in a position where I had to prove myself So I I like that so it's I would say it's a Position for someone who's it would be aware that that's what they're getting into you always have to prove yourself Is that because I mean why do you think that is let's just unpack that a little bit? That could be taken Anyway, somebody wants to perceive that but I would say Many of the perceptions is that you know women don't belong in this community or they don't Maybe have the capability to be up to the same level as some of the operators and so that's probably where a lot of Insecurities rise until you prove it so like for instance when we were deployed You know we would go out to support a SEAL team and we would come on base or you know, we would learn the operation And there still wouldn't be that confidence with our capabilities until we actually went on mission And we were able to do our job and then you know find out The information that they wanted to find out and when we were able to do it and so so much quicker of a time than They would mean sometimes we would be able to solve the problem In ten minutes versus them working on it for three months Just because of the fact that we were women and we were trying to connect Well, we were there working alongside other women or women of other religious preferences who because of the cultural sensitivity Women could only talk to women. So we were able to engage a pacific specific Population and because of that we were able to get ahead and that was seen as something valued It seems like it comes down to trust Partially I would say Improving that you can do the job, but once you did that there was you know instant rapport Instant value add it seems to me like what you're saying is Maybe it doesn't matter if you're a male or a female. You have to prove you have to prove that you just have to do the job Yeah, it doesn't yeah, I think that's exactly what it comes down to I think that it's the case for a lot of things and situations. It's you know Taking the gender aside. It's just going out and doing your job and doing it good and That's what's gonna matter the most. Have you ever second-cast yourself or does your can-do attitude? Just get you through every one of these, you know, it seems like it'd be a struggle over and over to feel like you have to prove yourself, you know When you know you're capable Um, I don't know honestly. I don't I don't think I've ever second-guessed myself. I just It's it's a hard position mainly because I think Being in the position that I was women were never really Offered this type of opportunity to work in this realm or this field and so When we had that chance we kind of like took the bull by the horns and like never looked back We were like, are you kidding me? We're able to go to this school in this school in this school Which is only schools that were allotted for men to go to and now that they were opening the door for women to go to it it was like mind-blowing and I can say that for all of the women that I worked with we were just like Oh my gosh, this is an opportunity that like has never happened before so um, I I mean I didn't think I don't think I would have looked at it like That I would I would just say that we were confident and we were like You know Going to give every single ounce of our energy and time to this because this is something that no women before have been able to do So I don't know it was kind of an honor Really that it sounds incredible the work that you're doing What do you feel about the overall impact? Like are there any Could you give an example of a story from one of the teams you're attached to and what happened happened because of your Your joint work with the seal team? So I was partnered with um another female Who she was the medic and so we were kind of like a travel Team this is when I was in uniform um And we were attached to both the green braze and the seals Um, and so we would basically get a call or a request To go and support a mission on a base Somewhere in afghanistan Um, so we would get the call we would fly in um with our interpreter We would fly in we would sit down. We would learn all of their SOPs their standard operating procedures um, we would learn the mission and then we would Get on the birds the helicopters and we would fly out to that mission and we would we would execute the mission so one of the missions that we went on um It was an area that We needed to the teams the special forces working what they needed to have a little bit more access into this area It was known to have a large Taliban presence and so Basically we're going in to you know talk to the locals talk to the women villagers talk to anybody that kind Of had any information on those people So we fly in um You know we get on the ground. We're going in patrol With the special forces in the stack We come in to the village and they separate women and children Men obviously men in this area this culture cannot talk to women because of the cultural sensitivities That's why they would separate the women they would put them in a in a separate room um, and we would go in and um You know, we put our head scarfs on tried to make the women feel a little bit more comfortable And we would talk to them and just sometimes have tea sometimes We'd have 10 minutes to talk with them. So It was a little bit more aggressive, but basically we would try to find out as much as we could with a list of questions That they would give us to do it and so We would get that information Find out the issues the problems, you know where people are going at certain times or mosques, etc And then from there We would leave and then we would debrief and we would say this is what we found. Wow. Um, and I think Specifically one thing one time in one place that we went to it's kind of hard to like You know as I mentioned before We laid out what we spoke to the ladies about the women And they said we've been working on this for three months and you've got that in 10 minutes And so wow You know, but while we were there, you know, they listed all these discrepancies of things that they didn't have or that they needed or They didn't even have education. They were learning how to vote and they didn't know where to go or what places to go and vote Um, so all the work that we're doing on the military side could be for nothing if they don't if the population doesn't understand What their rights are and exactly that's where you fill the gap, right and so So So then that kind of gave us another reason to go back and you know, they Didn't have the education or they didn't know where these voting centers were and this was like back in 2014 When the first time they allowed women to vote and they didn't even know that they were allowed to at that time Um, so that gave us another reason to go back and sit down and talk with them and teach them You know, these are the centers. These are the polling sites. This is when you can go These are the times you're allowed and allotted to So, I mean, it was like dual-hatting like you're impacting the us mission Obviously because of what we were able to find out and the second thing that was helping the local people understand I can vote like it's this is my government that I can contribute to and it was the first time women ever could do something like that Wow That is really cool If you I mean I want to Do what you do like how if I want to do this, how do I get into I literally do Um Because it just sounds amazing. Um the kind of impact you're making how would someone go about that? How does someone I mean you kind of had a unique path But if if someone's sort of starting from square one word, what do they do? I think When I first started I had no idea like I would be working in this area I mean, I started driving a boat as an ma You know, I I joined with a college degree and I was going to be an officer and you know I grew up with my mom in law enforcement and I just saw her being tough and just getting out there and like Serving and so that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be operational and so I was driving boats and then I was in a conventional unit and then all of a sudden There was an announcement to go and screen for naval special warfare for this All female unit that I just thought it sounded like something that was really challenging and It could be really rewarding and I just really liked working hard and They just this is just a community That I mean they were offering a lot of schools to women that haven't been offered before like I said before So I would urge Women to think about and men and you know just to think about their career And if they want to challenge or if they want to do something that's really impactful or important, you know To try to push into those small pockets of communities that have special special Jobs like you can go seal or swick or ud or diver Maybe you could speak to some of the various opportunities there are for women in this community Yeah, I think that the common opinion is that there are very limited opportunities for women but For females who might not understand that there are chances to work in special operations Not just being a seal or a swick right that there are other jobs that they can yeah, do you could you um You know when we describe some of the things you've seen over the years sure um I have some of my best friends are in the navy and I met them, you know just from working in this community so There are so many jobs for women and I think it's I think it's definitely something That women should consider when they're thinking of joining the military, you know It's It's so rewarding. You can a woman can be part of you know the media the public relations Round they can be part of intelligence. They can learn, you know, it if they're good with computers They can learn law enforcement capabilities. They can be dog handlers. They can be And they can work in investigative units. They can Be corpsmen, um, you know medical there's so many opportunities That are open for women and now there's Opportunities for women to go into the special operations side And work to be an operator like a seal a boat driver My best friend she's a eo d tech So she's one of 10 women in the eo d community Wow, and she just picked up for officer. She she you know she She's the same like she sees a challenge and she goes for it and she's never been limited because she's been a woman If anything, it's opened a lot of doors because I think women think that There's a like a lot of negative preconceived notions about them joining or like maybe there's just a lot of fear Or maybe not enough people are talking about what you can do In these jobs as a woman. So that's why we're here Right, so I think it's really important for women to know that there's so many opportunities Um, and there's so many resources and people that Are happy about what they do And want to promote it and i'm definitely one of them. Um, like I said my other friend. She's uh a diver She's one of the only female Dive medical technicians in the navy So it's we need more women in these positions because you know, they we do great jobs and we do really great work and Um, we're just as capable to do these positions And it seems like from your experience You would say they Anyone male or female they're you're going to be accepted if you're You know working at your best and Right, I'm you're going to have pushback regardless. I think over time It's going to take time for women to be fully integrated the way, you know, this big great picture is but I mean, I I think as long as you go in with a good mentality and just know that if you work hard enough You know, you are going to prove yourself and um, just have the confidence to know that there's the support network to get you there and um Yeah, I definitely think There's going to be no matter what you do and no matter what job you have there's going to be some type of um I don't know animosity or You know, there's going to be challenges, but you can't let that get in the way and You just have to know that you just do your job and It'll be fine. Yeah, we've we've talked about mental toughness here before. What is what does that mean to you? Mental toughness. Yeah from your perspective. I would say looking at When you're faced with an issue or a problem I think The best way to attack it would be to start pieces at a time like You you can't go into something and look at the overall picture because you're going to be overwhelmed And that's kind of what defines your mental toughness is how you attack something and how you Can break it down and accomplish it and if you can do it in pieces by pieces and only focus at that one thing at a time You know, eventually you'll be able to Defeat it. I suppose. So I think that's what kind of I think it takes a little while for you to Create that mental toughness. It doesn't happen overnight and you don't just have it right away You have to work on it just like anything Um, I mean when I first came into the program and started I was overwhelmed and it was so much going on and You know, I didn't know how to channel it or Overcome it and I think by just taking pieces at a time and focusing on that At the moment and then You know accomplishing that and then moving forward and like only looking at it like that is kind of what helps you Create that toughness Yeah, that's I mean, that's a resounding theme here because people coming in training for Sealer swag, you know, they They're picturing being an operator not necessarily passing the pst to get in so it's a kind you right sounds like your mindset has You know shifted definitely and it was not like that before I started definitely They teach you really good techniques in order to Be successful in the community and I think if you go into it with an open mind and just a positive mental attitude and knowing that It's going to completely suck, but you're gonna get through it or you know just being open to challenges and and Welcoming them welcoming them. Yeah, thank you. Have you ever felt like you've been held back because you're a female in this particular realm? No Awesome. I don't That's not the same for everybody. Um, I personally I don't um, I've never really It's hard. Um I grew up With my mom putting me in baseball with the boys So I never really had a barrier myself I never had that kind of preconceived I should be here On this women's side or this all with you know, I was always integrated from a young age. So it never personally Um gave me those boundaries. And so when I grew up I just never I went into everything thinking Oh, I I can do this or when I wanted to join the military Nothing personally in my mind held me back either So that I think when I went forward into these programs I never carried that with me and then when I would go into these programs Um, I just stood up and said, you know, is this possible for me to do and Everybody kind of seemed to like open the doors because they saw the ambition. Maybe I'm not sure I never really felt that way at all. That's great. Yeah, and like I said I felt like when I went into the unit the all-female unit that I was part of And we worked we were the first women The first group of women to really go into combat in these areas. I mean the job itself was very new Um, and even then I mean, there was definitely challenges But I wouldn't say that there was a lot of controversy in the fact that us not being allowed to do if anything It was opposite. It was like We were allowed to do it I don't know. Yeah, so but that's not the same for everybody I think someone's got a different story for that You seem to love your job. I do love my job. Um, it's Aside from what we I did in uniform This is the most rewarding thing what we did in uniform To separate it. This was kind of my selfish drive and it was a challenge for me to get into these Positions and do the job that was in my mind. That was kind of a selfish desire What I'm doing Selfish doesn't seem like the right words. Well, it was like it was all centered around me and What I'm doing now is so different and so impactful like the fact that I can get on the ground In some of these spots where these people have nothing not even clean water And we're able to provide that to them That impact is immeasurable and it's it's such a different kind of A different kind of rewarding feeling um I so I just was able to go and support a project in Africa and then before that like I said I was in Iraq and The fact that I can bounce around to all these places and support all this work in so many different areas is like Uh, I just I love it Yeah, it's really nice to know from the outside looking and how much good is being done because that's not what gets promoted Usually, I mean we you know on the news you just hear about the major things Right and normally that involves fatalities or you know something negative Um, but every day and you are doing things that are really positives. It is and I think a lot of people Don't know that side of the military like they don't know um a lot of people are Military or deployed to say South America or they don't know that they're deployed to certain parts of Africa or what they're even doing um, and I don't know why we keep things so secret So I think part of our job is to kind of inform the public of like the good work These special operations teams are doing on the ground Well, you're my hero. Oh gosh I think what you do is so cool. Um, and so important Um, I think that we're we are Come to the conclusion of our conversation even though I could talk to you all day Great. Um, but we really appreciate you being here Find out more at sealswitch.com and join us again for the next nsw podcast