 So let's have a bit of a background behind John 15 before we get there. So as of John 13, Jesus isn't quite an intimate closed-off setting with his disciples. It's just just after the Last Supper, okay? And this all 13, 14, 15, pretty much continuing the same conversations and exchanges. So 15 is not like a standalone verse with a completely different context. It pretty much follows on from 14 and 30. So towards the end of 13, Jesus has a conversation specifically with Simon Peter, okay? Now if you remember from the other synoptic gospel account, Peter didn't want Jesus to go through with his death. And so Jesus rebuked him saying, get behind me Satan. You're not mindful of the things of God. So perhaps before Peter at that time failed to grasp that Jesus must go through with this. Now here it seems like he's come to terms with it a bit more. So where you go, I will go, he's saying to Jesus, I will lay down my life for your sake. Now we know obviously Peter didn't follow through with that. But again, salvation is dependent on what Jesus did. It's not based on us laying down our life. You didn't lay your life down for Jesus, okay? Jesus laid his life down for us. So there's Peter, but Jesus does know that Peter shall follow him afterwards. And so we obviously know that after the cross, Peter will be a lot more bold and brave in his faith than the time when Jesus actually goes to his death. And because Jesus already knows this about Peter, again, it's meaningless to say that Peter lost his salvation when he denied Jesus three times and then got it back again all of a sudden. Because Jesus already knows the outcomes. You can't say, well, if Peter had died that day, he would have gone to help us. He lost his salvation. Jesus already knows the outcome. Again, just get it into your head that Jesus knows everything. It's meaningless to say people are temporarily saved or temporarily lose their salvation. It doesn't work with the concept of Jesus knowing everything, okay? So Peter seems... We don't really know a lot about what Peter's thinking here, but it seems like maybe he's come to terms with it a little bit more about what Jesus has got to go and do. And again, Jesus already knows you will deny me three times, but you shall follow me afterwards. And so the key word to get out of this passage, although it doesn't mention it, is the word confidence, okay? Jesus has got to build the disciples' confidence. And we'll pick up that as we look through these chapters and we can relate it to some other parts of the Bible as well. Okay, so confidence is the key word here. So then this conversation elaborates in John 14 where he's not just talking to Peter, but he's talking to all the disciples, because other disciples question him as well, okay? They respond with various things. So he's saying, you know, not your heart be troubled. So there's a good reason why he's telling them a lot of stuff in this conversation, okay? Don't be troubled. Because you know, Jesus is about to go to his death, okay? He's about to depart from the disciples. Don't let your heart be troubled, okay? So again, that's like key word confidence. It's confidence boost going on right here. You believe in God, okay? You already believe that. Believe also in me, okay? Now remember, the disciples have been following Jesus up to now. They've been faithful with him. When other disciples left in John 6, the 12, if we minus Judas, the 11, they've stayed with him, okay? They've stayed with him up to this point. They haven't just completely thrown in the towel, okay? So there's some things where, you know, they need a bit of a confidence boost. Jesus needs to reaffirm some things that they really should have grasped by now. But they have still stayed with him up to this point. They didn't stumble at his teachings like some others did, okay? Now then, he says in my father's house, there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Now, there is some eternal life-esque language here. But how to get eternal life, or what you must do for eternal life, is not really the subject matter of the beginning of this chapter here, okay? It's about what Jesus has got to go and do to allow all that to happen, okay? What Jesus is about to go and do is obviously necessary for believers to get into heaven. And so yes, there are many mansions for them, but that's not the key point of the conversation. Jesus is not telling his disciples how to be saved unto eternal life, okay? They've already listened to all of his conversations that he's had with the Jews and various people about that stuff, okay? So it's about what Jesus has got to go and do. That's what he's dealing with in these chapters, okay? So I go to prepare a place for you. I will come again and so on. And then Thomas here says, Lord, we don't know where you go. How can we know the way? Okay. Now look how Jesus replies here. I am the way, the truth and the life. So again, this is the closest direct mention of anything related to eternal life throughout this entire exchange here. That's the closest mention. And again, it's not the focus of what Jesus is actually saying, because it's not about how to enter life. It's about what Jesus must go and do. So no man comes onto the Father, but by me, okay? Again, the disciples should already grasp that. So if you had no me, you should have known my Father also. And from henceforth, you know him and I've seen him again. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. So he's reaffirming what really the disciples have already heard him say similar things to the Jews. So in a way, it's even baffling that they're even answering this question. But we know from hindsight that after Jesus' resurrection, obviously we've got doubting Thomas there. The guy who's not going to accept the resurrection quite straight away, he's going to be a little bit doubtful in his mind there. Okay. But remember, he's not thrown in the towel. He's not stumbled at Jesus' teaching. He stayed up with Jesus to this point. Okay. Philip says onto him, again, not quite grasping what Jesus has said there. Show us the Father and it suffices us. And again, Jesus is almost baffled here by the question almost because Jesus says onto him, have I been so long with you and yet you have not known me, Philip? You know, it's almost strange that Philip's asked this question. He's just explained, you've seen me. How long have they been with Jesus at this point? So there's stuff that, yes, they listen to Jesus' teachings. They've been his disciples, but there's still some stuff that they're just not quite grasping here. And they need to try and grasp this. Okay. So he that's seen me, seen the Father. So how do you even say what you've just said, Philip? You know, how do you even ask this? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? And okay. And you know, you would think that he does believe it, but you know, that there's just something not quite right about what he's getting here. The words that I speak onto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father dwells in me and he does the work. So again, it's reaffirming this son-father relationship in Christ. Okay. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me or else believe me for the very work sake. Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me the works that I shall do, he do also and greater works than these he shall do because I go unto my Father. So it's not, although he's using this believe language, which is typically what we've seen about eternal life up to this point in John's Gospel. He's not really emphasizing the bit about having eternal life because they believe on me. He's emphasizing his relationship with the Father and that they will do these works because of what Jesus is doing, because Jesus goes on to my Father. Okay. So again, it's that keyword confidence. This is a confidence boost to what's happening here. So then he goes on to explain, and this is where there is a bit of a two-way relationship between Jesus and his disciples here. Whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. So you ask things of me. Don't doubt because I will do them because the Father is glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. So again, confidence in what you ask. And like as it James says, have faith, don't have a wavering faith when you ask things of your Father. Okay. And then he goes on to say, if you love me, keep my commandments. Okay. So there's that saying that they love to quote about how all these works you've got to do to heaven, but he's not telling them how to enter into life here. He's telling them, look, if you ask things in my name, I will do it for you. I'm going to my Father. I'm going out to do this stuff for you, and you shall do this as a result of me doing that. So there's the context of what he means by that. Okay. Keep my commandments if you love me. Okay. And you know what you shall ask in my name, that will I do. Okay. Now then he says, I will send you another converter because remember, Jesus is going to be with the Father. So again, it's that comfort. It's that confidence. Okay. There's two C words if you like, that he's trying to get out of here. The spirit of truth. The world cannot receive him. You know him for he dwells in you and shall be in you. Now, notice here it says, because they want to take this about the Holy Spirit, and it's, well, you have to obey him to get the Holy Spirit. Well, John 7 already explained that the Holy Ghost is given to those that believe, but it's not yet given though. The Holy Spirit was not yet given at this point, but then look exactly what Jesus says in verse 17. He dwells in you and shall future tense be in you. Okay. And he shall. So there's a future application to the Holy Spirit coming, but there's also a present tense. He dwells in you. So him dwell, the Holy Spirit dwelling in you is not quite the same thing as he shall be in you. And I've done stuff on my channel about that in quite a brief way. But don't confuse multiple roles that the Spirit has. Okay. Because the Holy Spirit can be dwelling in you such that you have eternal life, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he comes upon you like he came upon certain people in the Old Testament. And why does he come upon you? Well, in that aspect, it's for comfort. Okay. Or it's to give you words to speak because he will explain the role of the Holy Spirit in the upcoming dialogue here and also in chapter 16. Okay. So don't turn that into something about salvation when it's not. Okay. John 7 said the Holy Spirit would be given in a future tense, but there were still people believing on his name at that time. Okay. So I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you yet a little while. The world sees me no more, but because I live, you shall live also. So again, although there is some aspects of living there, it's more about what Jesus is going to do. Okay. Not so much about what you should do. And at that day, you shall know, not you shall do, you shall know the time in my father and you in me and I knew. So you shall know when this all comes to pass. So this is going to be the point where they have confidence in their faith because here in this chapter, doesn't really look like all the disciples have a lot of confidence about Jesus. But then when you start getting to action, when they start preaching the gospel, it's a very different story. So Jesus is going to solidify their faith. You know, he is going to go to his death, but he's going to rise again. Okay. So he needs to go through all of that so that the disciples finally grasp it. Okay. And then we go on to the bits where again, these are more things that they like to pluck out. He that has my commandments and keeps them. He is it that loves me. And he loves me. Shall be loved in my father. If a man loved me, he will keep my words. The father will love him. And he will come into him, make out a boat with him. He that loves me, not keeps not my sayings and so on. And so these are the kind of words, you know, that you can lose your salvation passages. But he's not really explaining exactly what happens to the people who don't love him, other than that they keep not his sayings. He does. He's not mentioning hellfire here. He's not exactly saying eternal life there because he could just come out and say it. He could just come out and say, he that loves me not shall be cast into hellfire. But he just doesn't say that there. And if it's so important, he could have mentioned it, but he doesn't. Okay. And this is where you see, I think these passages about John 15, about making it about you can lose your salvation when the right words aren't coming up because he's not emphasizing doing all of that stuff for eternal life specifically. Okay. Now in John chapter six and John chapter 10, it's a very important part of the conversation, your eternal life and that you must believe in him for eternal life. That's not really the point that Jesus is getting across here. Okay. He's trying to comfort his disciples, you know, what's happened, you shall know that I am in you. And so, you know, if you love me, then keep my commandments that I've given you. Okay. So then he talks a little bit more about the Holy Ghost. He's a comforter. The Father shall send in my name. He shall teach you all of these things. Bring them to remembrance, whatsoever I've said to you. So the Holy Spirit there, kind of as a deposit for Christ, not being there physically with them. And so the Holy Ghost compensates for that. Okay. He'll give them that piece. Okay. The world can't give that piece, but he can be that piece. So again, what's the point of Jesus telling them all this stuff? Let not your heart be troubled, which is what he said higher up as well at the beginning. So you can kind of see those as the book ends to everything that Jesus is saying here. Why is he telling them this stuff? Why is he telling them to keep his commandments? Why is he telling them about the Holy Ghost? We've got book ends there. Let not your heart be troubled. Let not your heart be troubled. Okay. So I go my way. I go away and come again to you. He's going to come back to them. Okay. If you loved me, you would rejoice, but they're not rejoicing because they're failing to grasp this. And so they must understand here that what Jesus is about to go and do is a good thing and it's for their sake that he's doing it as well. That's what they need to understand that perhaps they've not quite grasped yet. All right. And so at the end, he says, but the world may know that I love the Father and that the Father gave me commandments, even so do I. So that again, Jesus is doing this stuff and the whole world may know. Okay. So there again, that's the purpose of why Jesus is doing these things, that the world may know these things, not just the disciples who he's talking to here. So there's a little bit of background leading us up into John chapter 15. Okay. And so here in lies John chapter 15, that the real crux of the matter about some of the things that they say you can lose your salvation. So obviously they point to things like where it says every branch of me that bears not fruit he takes away and further down, if a man not abiding me, he is cast forth as a branch and so and then cast into the fire. And they're the kind of you can lose your salvation and go to hell type versus there that they will use. Okay. And so they make this abide about your continual fight of faith to try and stay in the path of salvation, which again, he's, if you just look across these entire verses here, eternal life is not being directly mentioned. Hell is not really being directly mentioned either. Although you might argue that this is fire is very strong language if it means something else other than hell fire. So we'll get to that. We'll look at that in a while. But you know, eternal life is just not mentioned in this particular area. Okay. Being saved, other words, saved, it is not particularly mentioned here. Okay. So it's, again, this is where they have to take the less clear passages where Jesus could actually be talking about something else and they override the clear passages like John 6 and John 10, where Jesus actually is talking about eternal life. Okay. And so here's the problem when you take passages like this to mean that you can lose your salvation. But we will play the Devil's Advocate and say, you know, it does look as if that's what Jesus is saying. It does look as if he's kind of going on the opposite of the kind of stuff that he said in John 6, John 10. I grant you that. But let's, again, we have to look specifically at the exact words that Jesus uses and try and understand this in the scope of everything else that Jesus said in John. Okay. So that's what we're going to try and do as we look through this chapter. All right. So going into this, let's just remind ourselves. Let's just backtrack and remind ourselves of a few things. Okay. In this video here, he tried to frame it as it's the shape that's walking away. So it's not that Jesus is leaving you, you're leaving him. Okay. That's how he framed how losing salvation works. Okay. And there's a comment in this very video where somebody says that, well, I know no one can snatch me out of your hand, but I could always crawl away myself. And he gives that a like there. Okay. So that's how the argument's been framed, that it's you leaving him or you walking away from him. Okay. And then similarly, that's how he framed it in this way, that Jesus is going this way. So if you're wandering and go that way, that's why you lose your salvation, because it's you that's doing the falling away. It's you that's doing the walking away. Okay. Now, in this video, they do talk about God forsaking you, but it's still under the condition that you've forsaken him first based on a Chronicles passage there. Okay. So, yeah, there is an aspect here of God forsaking you, but it predominantly revolves around you forsaking him first. Again, you're the one who's leaving. You're the one who's going. Okay. And then in this video, his journey out of one saved always saved. If you look just before the nine-minute mark, it says pretty much the same as that comment that you gave a thumbs up to, that, well, this verse says that no one can snatch me out of his hand, but that says nothing about me walking away. And so that's how he framed how losing your salvation works, that you, through your free will, you've chosen to walk away. Okay. Well, immediately then, we've got some problems here. Okay. If you're going to say all that, that it's you leaving. You're the one who's doing the leaving. You're the one who's doing the forsaking. You're the one who walks away. And that's how loss of salvation applies. Well, the problem is that goes against the narrative of what actually happens in John 15, because in John 15, it says that it's the father who's the husbandman. So every branch in me that bears not through, he takes away. So it doesn't say that the branch withers and dies and falls off. Okay. He, the father, takes away. So he actually does cut them off. Okay. And it goes on to say then that if a man not abiding me, he is cast forth as a branch. So it doesn't say the branch, again, it doesn't say that the branch falls off and falls into the ground and withers away or decomposes or anything like that. Okay. Someone actually has to remove the branch and then cast it into the fire. Okay. So immediately we've got a problem there, because the way this is framing it is, now actually the father does actually pull you away, take you away and throw you away. It's not, well, you would just choose to walk away. That's not how this has been framed. So again, it's these contradictory argument points where they change how it actually works in the different passages where it suits them to do so. Okay. If it was about you walking away, this would make more sense if it was the branches just dying and falling off, like a dead branch that just wrought some faults off. That's not how Jesus frames this argument. So again, it just, it doesn't work with how they try and bring it together with other passages. All right. Now let me show you another problem with their conditional securitard framework. Okay. Is that they take this word here where it says fruit, bearing not fruit. They make that about works. Okay. It's all about you've got to do the work. People often, again, I mentioned this earlier that people just take the word fruit and they make that mean works. Okay. But if you just understand, I don't even know that much about gardening and even to me, I understand how stupid that is. Okay. Because look what's going on here. What's the analogy that Jesus is actually using? It's a vine. Okay. A vine, a tree. You might say a tree that grows grapes, for example, a vine tree. Okay. Great grapes to make wine. So the branch that has to bear fruit. Well, fruit, when a tree grows fruit, that's not work. Okay. That's not how work works. That someone has to be trimming that tree and doing work on that tree in order for it to grow fruit. Okay. Well, according to this, who is it who's doing the work? Well, it tells you, Jesus says, my father is the husband man. So if there's any branches that aren't bearing any fruit, he takes away because he's the one that's doing the work here. Okay. He's the husband man that's trimming and doing stuff to this vine here. So there's nothing about the branch itself doing any work. The branch just grows and it's the father that's doing the work here. So, again, work salvation just doesn't work with this analogy. And it says that every branch that bears fruit, again, he purges it. Why does he purge it? He takes the fruit. So he's doing the work. He's trimming this tree. He's working on this vine. A branch that's growing fruit, he trims it. Why does he do that? So that it may bring forth more fruit. But so the fruit is the product of this vine. It's something that grows as a result of a branch that is part of this vine. But who's doing the work? The father is doing the actual work here. So making this fruit about works doesn't work if you pardon the pun. Okay. It goes against how the analogy is being set up. Okay. And if you want to make this, that the branches that bear no fruit, they're the ones who are not doing any work. And so they're the ones that are going to be cast forth and thrown into the fire. Well, here's the problem. If the father is the one doing the work up here, and all it says that he just takes the branch away, that's really all it says about the father, who is casting into the fire according to verse six. It says that men gather them and cast them into the fire. Well, what man on this planet can throw you into hell? Okay. That doesn't make any sense. That's why the Bible says fear him who's able to put your body and soul into hell. That's the father. It's not man. Man can't put you in hell. Fear not him who can only destroy the body, but afterwards can do no harm. Okay. It's the father that we should fear because he's the one that can put you in hell as far as your soul's concerned. So making that about hell is utterly ridiculous based on that premise alone that men can't do that to you. Okay. So here's the problem when you try and make that so literal about hellfire, it doesn't work with the analogy that's being put forward. Okay. Jesus is using an analogy. So you've got to try and understand how your framework even fits with this analogy. Otherwise, Jesus is just rambling and saying nothing here if you just completely change the narrative of what's actually being addressed. Okay. And so then it raises the question as why is Jesus even using this analogy? Why is he talking about a vine and a branch here? What exactly is this branch talking about? Now if it's talking about eternal life he's not exactly using the right terms here. He's not really mentioned eternal life in these verses. Again, he could have just said that those branches are cast into hellfire, but that's not what he says. He just says men gather them and cast them into the fire. That's not about hell. We've already got a problem. So it's not exactly explicitly explained here why exactly Jesus is telling them this other than surrounding contexts. Now you could possibly make it about believers falling into sin perhaps if that's what you were going to make it about that the branches that bear no fruit there, the branches that are falling in sin. Well then when it says cast them into the fire there are examples of verses in the New Testament where the job of the church is to judge people that are in serious sin and the reverses that deal with throwing somebody out of church. We looked at the chastisement of believers very early in this reputation and so casting them into the fire doesn't even have to mean hellfire and if it's men gather them well you could argue that that's the church throwing out these unprofitable things but the thing is again church and sin like eternal life that's not really part of the language being used here either okay. We've got nothing to go on other than that the disciples are told to abide that's really the key context that's going on here. So abide is the main thing that we've got to go on. Well what does it mean to abide? It means to continue and you know or it means to stay or to remain in you might say. So say remain in. Okay now remember up to now what did I say our key words were we were looking at confidence we were looking at sorry it's not showing the word remain I don't know why but we're looking at confidence we're looking at comfort he's been trying to comfort them look I'm sending you my comforter you know believe in me that I'm in the Father and what I'm about to go and do is you know it's for your sake and it's going to go on in this chapter with more words of comfort and confidence so he's building up the disciples here for everything that he's going to do and everything that the disciples are going to do the disciples are going to go out into the world and bear much fruit okay and that fruit is going to remain so it's all about continuing so we again and a good way of looking at that would be you know don't give up okay or you could look at this as saying don't lose hope okay and you know don't don't lose comfort so I'll just put that in there as well don't don't lose comfort so again this is an encouragement it's not a chastisement it's not even a warning really because it only there's only a couple of verses where he gives the warnings most of this is comforting language Jesus is going to be with them okay Jesus is going to help them bear much fruit and he says without me you can do nothing so again it's that comfort Jesus is going to help you do these things don't give up and he goes on to tell the disciples later in the chapter that you will be hated in this world for namesake okay but remember the words that I've said on to you if they persecute you know you keep my sayings okay so that's the points that he's really getting them across it's this comfort it's this encouragement to remain in Christ and what he's going to do is deathbell in resurrection is really solidify the faith of the disciples because you know the faith seems to be a bit rocky at this point there's still stuff that they're not understanding so again it's that confidence boost okay it's the encouragement that he's trying to do so that's the point that he's trying to get them across in all of this okay now then who are the branches that bear fruit okay so if these branches need to bear fruit to remain attached to the vine who are they well it's quite simple you read down to verse 4 and it explains abiding me and I knew because the branch cannot bear fruit of itself branches don't naturally grow fruit unless they're attached to a vine okay so abiding the vine stay in Christ and if you stay in Christ then you can bear fruit so it's not really evident here that there's all these works of obedience but you remain in Christ whatever that happens to mean you stay with Christ and you remain attached to Christ okay well Christ is fine and you are the branches so the branches grow fruit but again we already saw that the father is the husband and he's the one who's actually doing the work on this vine okay so don't make this fruit all about your works when it's not so so there you go so why should we abide in him so that we can keep our salvation well he does give you a reason in verse 7 although it doesn't strictly say it's about salvation though if you abide in me and my words abiding you you shall ask of what you will and it shall be done on to you so remaining Christ what you ask of Christ you shall receive again very similar to what he told them earlier and what like what James says ask you know ask and it shall be given on to you don't have a wavering faith otherwise what can you expect to receive from God now you could make that about eternal life but the thing is again exactly saying that that's the specific purpose of telling them that okay then he goes on to say as the father has loved me so have I loved you continue in my love so continue just being another word for abide if you like well well why should we continue in his love what's the outcome of that so he then says if you keep my commandments you shall abide in my love okay so this is what you're abiding in it doesn't say you're abiding in my eternal life or the life I give or my salvation it's just that you abide in his love whatever that happens to be you ask of him and he shall give on to you okay and again why does he tell him these things well it's so that your joy might be full so there's the issue he doesn't say so that you keep your salvation that's just not what he says it's that joy may remain in you so if you're not doing these things if you don't remain in his love you you will lose your joy okay there's the issue and again if this is so important to eternal life and salvation why isn't he using those terms he could just say in this verse right here in 11 he doesn't say it okay he uses joy so again you have to then accuse Jesus of using somewhat fluffy language for something that's actually very very important if you want to say that that equates to losing salvation okay and there's a psalm where I think it's psalm 51 David prays for restore to me the joy of my salvation he doesn't say restore to me my salvation it's the joy okay so then he goes on to say that this is my commandment that you love one another why because I have loved you already okay and you know Jesus is gonna lay down his life for his friends and here's a key bit you are my friends if what so ever I command you so he doesn't say you are saved if you do what I command you you are my friends so just ask yourself okay even under the free grace modally even if you finally come to accept faithful and one saved always saved and you're thinking well what happens you know can I continue well the thing is do you want to be Jesus as friend okay and if you're gonna say that being friends is a condition of eternal life well the problem is that he says to his disciples henceforth I call you not servants okay I call I have called you my friends so there is a difference between being Jesus a servant and being his friend okay Jesus isn't really elaborating on that here but the difference is there though okay you have not chosen me I have chosen you and I have ordained you that you should go for and bring forth through so there's the actual work there if anything here it's not that you grow free you bring forth through so that if there's any work that you do there it is okay that he's ordained that you should you should do that okay and that your fruit will remain again why should we bring forth through why should we do what we've ordained so that whatsoever you shall ask of the father in my name he may give it to you so there is your reason so notice multiple times we've got a reason in verse 15 we've got a reason there in verse 11 okay we've got a reason there in verse 14 three different verses here give us a reason and none of them have mentioned your salvation none of them have mentioned your eternal life okay there's the reason do you want your joy to be fought well well who doesn't want that what what Christian in the world doesn't want that okay so you know you can turn free grace into this license to sin just because you're sitting without a license anyway but you know what we we still want our joy to be fought even if we believe in free grace believe it or not you know we still want to be called Jesus's friends okay and this thing about doing what Jesus commands so that you be his friends where we heard that before well ages ago we looked at James chapter 2 let me scroll across for you so there it is folks the the justification by works as well as faith that James was talking about okay the scripture was fulfilled well he believed God and that that was accounted on to him for righteousness but some other scripture was fulfilled as well he was called a friend of God okay so yes he believed God that's his righteousness that's his salvation that's his path from death on to life but he was also called a friend of God okay and so there's your justification for works to be called a friend of God okay and to complete your your faith by making it perfect to show the faith that you actually believe in okay so there it is and so really here it is there folks that's why conditional security from John 15 falls apart because Jesus gives you three different reasons across these verses and not a single one of them mentions your salvation directly okay he doesn't mention that word so you know you want to make this about salvation well the problem is they're the reasons that Jesus gives you so really you have to take it up with Jesus so it's not you know it's not that we reject the words of Jesus okay because we believe in eternal security it's that we just look at the reason why Jesus says these things okay it's called studying the Bible to actually see what it actually really says okay but nevertheless folks okay if you're just looking at this bit in verse 6 about being cast into the fire and you're a bit nervous because you think well you know that's quite strong language if it doesn't mean hellfire so what if we should take some salvation application to it so what happens to the person who doesn't continue in Christ let's just address that so that at least we've left no stone unturned okay just in case we want to interpret it that way well let's let okay fine I'll entertain you let's look at it through the lens of salvation then okay so we know that we've got to abide or continue in Christ we know that we've got to remain in Christ and if that doesn't happen we're casting to the fire well remember earlier let's let's re-explore this concept of grafting now John doesn't mention grafting here but remember Epiucione in his same video about John 15 also mentioned the Romans 11 concept about grafting so there's a branch that wasn't in Christ and it became part of that branch but just like it could be cut out in Romans 11 well it can also be cut out here in John 15 as well okay so obviously people will confront Epiucione and say well those branches weren't really saved they weren't really believers and then so he'll ask the question well why were they branches in Christ then okay why a good question okay fine well we'll deal with it well let's the thing is with this passage here it doesn't really tell us how the branches were in Christ in the first place so we'll just have to cross reference Romans 11 and say that you were a branch cut off from another olive tree and you were grafted into the good branch okay so at some point you weren't a part of the true branch and then you became part of the true branch okay and then but then there is this prospect that you can be cut off okay so that's what we're gonna look at as the way that we examine exactly what Jesus is saying here if we're gonna make it about salvation okay because believe it or not folks eternal security free grace we can answer this okay we can deal with that all right so let let's just deal with it so let's look at this concept of grafting then okay if you're a branch in Christ and you can be cut off were you definitely saved do you have to be saved for that to be true to be a branch in Christ must must you be saved as opposed to just being a branch in Christ that's not saved is that possible well let's understand a little bit about grafting and how it actually works and then we'll understand these these metaphors and analogies won't we now do excuse me for using Wikipedia I don't know how accurate Wikipedia is okay but you know this isn't exactly a subject where people need to particularly lie about for some you know political agenda or something like that so you can look up the page grafting and you've got a nice length the article with quite a lot of stuff about how it actually works okay so in a nutshell you've got two separate trees and what you can do with these trees is take the branch out of one tree or a branch that was from another tree and you can graft it into a different tree and eventually if the grafting is successful it will become part of that other tree so in human terms this would be a bit like if you could like don't like donating an organ I suppose you can take an organ out of one person put it in another person and if that person's body accepts it well then their body can can work with that organ okay in its place so that there's a similar concept in human terms so it goes on to explain shortly in the intro that for successful grafting to take place the vascular cambium tissues of the stock and the cyan plants must be placed in contact with each other and watch this look at this bit this is a key bit to understanding how this works both tissues must be kept alive until the graft has taken and it usually lasts for a few weeks so there's a time period where you've got to keep it alive during this time period otherwise it won't be successful so that process must happen for the graft to be successful okay so and then successful grafting requires that a connection take place between the tissue so the thing that's been grafted and the branch they've got to successfully join together for this to work alright otherwise it's just not going to be successful so there's grafting that will be successful there's grafting that won't be successful so the idea that grafting will be successful and then a few years later it suddenly becomes unsuccessful it's not here once again we've got two types we always have these two types of people when we look at these different passages you know you've got here that believes, here that believes not you've got here it's in the flesh and here it's of the spirit there's no third type of person that's just sort of like flipping between the two that's just not offered by these passages that we go to so we've got those that graft successfully and those that grafts unsuccessfully okay there's really only two camps there now it goes on to give you some reasons for grafting some of the advantages of grafting so one of them I'm not quite sure I pronounced that but it introduces fruitfulness so a branch can then grow fruit without having to complete its juvenile face so it doesn't have to become a fully mature fully grown branch to bear fruit it can bear fruit much earlier in its life than it would be if it wasn't grafted grafted into another branch so a good analogy would be you know you don't need to be an absolute expert in the Bible and take years and years of your Christian life before you can grow fruit you can grow fruit fairly early in your Christian life okay there's a good similarity there do all things this is like where you can take characteristics of another tree and you can induce that into the tree that's being grafted into so it's like you can adapt cold tolerance so it can take some beneficial properties so again a good similarity in our terms would be like the body of Christ and everybody's a different body part like you've got an arm and you've got a leg and you've got a nose and so on so different believers can bring different gifts there's another way that you could look at that there's various other advantages as well that you can see on the screen like hybrid breeding reduces the time to flowering short on the breeding program so again it's bringing forth that fruit quicker what does the father do he's doing work on this fine so that he can bring forth more fruit so that that's what grafting does it can be used to bring forth more fruit okay now then further down the article it starts to give you some factors that would make the graft successful okay it's got it's got to be successful is it's got to meet these factors to be successful so first and foremost you've got compatibility so normally grafting is between trees of the same species sometimes you can mix what would be called closely related species if you like but if trees to completely different species it's just not going to work okay so somebody again let's apply that to christianese terms well somebody that's just got no interest in Jesus no interest in the word no interest in things eternal well they're not going to graft very well are they folks they're not going to be compatible with Christ they're not going to be a successful graft okay and you've got other things like cambium alignment and pressure so tightly pressing them together oriented in the direction of normal growth it's that proper alignment and pressure encourages the tissues to join quickly and it needs to happen quickly emphasise there so the nutrients and the water can flow through so if it's not again that's not done properly that won't happen okay and so you've got these other things as well for making sure that the appropriate moisture is going through the appropriate nutrients are going through it's being kept alive that the temperature's right and you've got to have proper care of the graft site nursing nursing it back to health so there is some injury sustained in the grafting process there okay so these are all the different factors that can determine whether a graft is going to be successful I found this article about grafting citrus and it gives you some pictures and descriptions of what to do to graft citrus and then look at what happened so at 6 months the grafts were in leaf and flowers so it takes 6 months before we can really see whether it was successful it wasn't immediately obvious okay so it wasn't like well you just graft it and it starts growing through straight away no this is a gradual process and you have to wait for it to grow through but notice what he said here one of the grafts failed but two of three survived so there's a couple that survived but there is one that failed the article doesn't go on to explain what you do with the failed branch okay so I found something else I found something from the university so this is something about when a graft is unsuccessful it gives a number of causes so again we saw that there were factors to a successful graft there can be things like disease obviously and all that kind of stuff so there are some examples of when it's not successful and so it gives symptoms so the most pronounced symptom of graft failure is a clean breaking off of a tree at the graft unit so it gets broken off and that even happens naturally in the case of real grafting okay other symptoms of graft failure include general ill health of the tree and the shoe die bag so there's an example of where you'd probably want to remove it so that you don't have those kind of symptoms okay but this is what it even goes on to say it is possible for trees to survive with some of these above symptoms but a combination of many symptoms may result in the premature death of the tree so if a graft is unsuccessful you're not going to want to leave it there for the same reason if somebody's got those like leprosy or gangrene or whatever it is where part of the flesh is dying you don't leave the leg attached okay the surgeons have to remove that because it could infect the rest of the body okay so there's a good reason why you would then have to cut it off okay so a good biblical analogy 1111's the whole lump purge that old 11 okay there's a really good similarity there now here it does give some symptoms but obviously the only symptoms we've got from the Bible is that it just doesn't bear much fruit okay that seems to be the only symptom that Jesus really delves into is an allergy so so therein lies the problem a branch is grafted in and it's either going to be successful or it's going to be unsuccessful one all the other okay it's not well you plug it in you take it out you plug it in you take it out either it's successful or it isn't and you need to make sure that that branch that's being grafted in has no disease or anything like that you need to make sure that you do it properly when you graft it in okay so then if we're dealing in the context of salvation well we've got the vine that's Jesus okay a branch is grafted in so remember it wasn't part of the vine earlier it's grafted in but it takes a few weeks to see if it's going to be a successful graft you don't know straight away okay it takes time and you've got to make sure that you do the job properly so remember the father is the husband one so he's the one doing the work here okay and remembering John chapter 6 I will go to eternal life section no man can come to me except the father draw him that the father's got to do something for somebody to come to Jesus otherwise it doesn't work and that's why there were some disciples that walked no more with him and Jesus knew from the beginning they believe not they were not the ones that were drawn of the father so they were not grafted in properly so if we have a branch here that's not grafted in properly well that's where you cut it off okay now was it part of that vine okay was it was it in the vine well in a manner of speaking yes it was part of the vine okay but was it a successful graft okay what was it successful did it bring forth any fruit well the answer is no so that's why you cut it off now remember that we saw that one of the factors is that you have to keep the branch alive so if the branch then doesn't stay alive it won't be a successful grafted so you might say well does that mean the branch lost its salvation because it was once alive but remember that in actual grafting you're not taking a dead branch from another tree you are taking a living branch so to say that because it was living in a real analogy you know in real grafting that it that means it was saved well well no okay because otherwise why was it saved before it was grafted in that that wouldn't make any sense you can't look at it that way so the branch then that does not abide it was putting this brand it was putting this vine but it wasn't a successful graft okay it did not pass from death on to life that's why it says in John chapter 6 the disciples that walked no more with him Jesus knew from the beginning who believe not that is why I say on to you no man can come to me except the father draw him the father the husbandman he's got to be doing the work of this grafting for it to be successful if that doesn't happen it won't be successful and so here's the problem no absolutely it doesn't say that you can lose your salvation then if you're not successful graft you can't say that you were ever saved because if you were saved this graft should be successful but it wasn't but you don't know that straight away okay if you do grafting you're not going to immediately know whether it was successful it takes time to find out it was successful but remember Jesus knows these things from the very beginning he already knows what's going to be successful and what's not going to be successful okay and again just grasp this idea from one miserable day that God knows everything he's seen the future well you can lose your salvation if you sin tomorrow well God already knew if I would sin tomorrow he's already for seeing it okay so again just grasp that please just please grasp that so if it wasn't a successful graft it wasn't saved so I'm just going to draw a chart for those of you that like the pictorial stuff so then we have a man who was grafted in so that's where we thought he was passed from death on to life we thought he believed the gospel as far as we knew he was grafted in he became part of the branch but then he was cut off and cast on to the fight he did not bear any fruit so he was cast off and so he falls under the damnation category well he did not graft successfully so therefore he did not pass from death on to life because if he did pass from death on to life he would bear through well what does that mean well he would have grafted successfully he would have believed on to eternal life but he didn't believe okay so there you have it folks and Jesus already knows from the beginning who believe not so because it was an unsuccessful graft you can't say that he was temporarily saved because remember again abide means to continue now when it was here in the time did it look like he continued it did look like that up until that point when it got to about there did it look like he continued yes but then once we get to here we realize in hindsight no he didn't continue so you can't say he temporarily abided and then stopped abiding because that would put him under the category of did not abide so again two types of people those that abide those that don't abide there's really only two types of people case closed so there you have it folks yes they were a branching Christ but no they were not saved they were just going through the temporary process of trying to be grafted in but the graft would not be successful okay so again if you actually just look at the analogies that Jesus uses and just try and understand them again conditional security still falls apart okay now obviously in in John 15 it looks more like it's sort of about works and obedience rather than faith specifically but here's what I'm arguing is that there's not enough clear text to say that you've been talking about salvation anyway but let's just pick up if it were talking about salvation well let's let's take verse 7 for instance it says if you abide in me my words abide in you so there's a mutual relationship there okay that they're not excluded from each other okay so if somebody did not successfully graft they don't abide in him the question then is why why didn't they abide well Jesus already used this word abide back in John 5 38 he said and to a group of people who didn't believe him you have not his word abiding in you for whom he has sent you believe not so there it is folks if somebody doesn't abide as far as salvation is concerned it's because they believe not okay and if you want to make it about works well he's not even mentioning sins and all these terrible evil things in this passage anyway he's just not mentioning that as the topic okay so in conclusion then the key point that Jesus is getting across here is confidence comfort and encouragement that's what he's doing with his disciples he's giving them trying to get him that confidence in what he's about to do he's trying to give them comfort now you might say well okay we have the comforter we have the Holy Spirit but if I'm trying to say that confidence is a key word there why doesn't this word appear here well I grant you it doesn't appear in this passage okay but what we can do is we can tie the word confidence with the word abide okay specifically in relation to eternal life as well so let me cross reference this with another passage that talks about abiding and it's written by the same guy who wrote John's Gospel presumably so one John chapter 2 he uses the word abide and confidence quite across this epistle actually I'd say actually regarding eternal life it's probably the most difficult book in the New Testament to understand really I guess but if we if we go down in chapter 2 he talks about here so we've got who is the liar but he that denies the Christ who so ever denies this on the same as not the father so obviously in the opposite to that let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the beginning if that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you so it's not about your work so much as it's about what you've heard the message that you've heard if that remains in you that message you shall also as a result of that continue in the son and in the father so if that what was heard in you remains in you so again you accepted the gospel you accepted the message of salvation you accepted that and you've held on to that well then as a result of that you shall continue in the son and in the father and this is the promise that he has promised us even eternal life these things I have written concerning them that seduce you but the anointing which you have received of many received of him abiding you and you need not that any man teach you but as the same anointing teaches you all things against the Holy Spirit there anointing if you like and this is truth and is no lie and even as it has taught you you shall abide in him so again the Holy Spirit teaching you you shall abide in him very similar to what he was saying what Jesus was saying in John 14 and 15 and now little children abide in him why why should we abide in him that when he shall appear we may have confidence and not be ashamed at his coming so there you go tying in confidence with abiding and eternal life so there's the goal okay don't give up with your faith keep on going at it get grafted in okay and if that what you've heard stays in you and it stays with you and you keep that you have the promise of eternal life and you shall continue in the sun whereas those that aren't grafted successfully and don't keep that well they don't have that promise they didn't continue the sun Jesus knew from the beginning who believed no okay so it doesn't violate one saved always saved at all okay