 Okay, we're going to start right on time because I have 20 minutes and I'm losing my voice and I'd like to get the questions and answers. So, how many old timers have you been working in the web industry for more than 10 years? Raise your hand. All right, we're all old timers. Awesome. I realized earlier this year that in a couple years I will have spent half of my life on Earth working in the web industry, which got me thinking a lot of things and some of those are actually in the presentation. I've been in the Drupal ecosystem throughout the entire time and I am completely convinced that this year is simultaneously the year where I've seen the biggest opportunity for the ecosystem in the product and also the biggest set of challenges by far. And that's the bulk of the presentation. So, just a little context and background how we've kind of, I've come to form my thoughts and a lot of the company thinking is in this deck. So, we run a couple hundred thousand websites. We have a foot in the Drupal ecosystem. Many of them are Drupal websites. We also have a foot in the WordPress ecosystem. We kind of see both sides of the coin. We have a few thousand agencies we work with, many of them Drupal, maybe many of them WordPress. And they are parallel universes and it's like visiting interplanetary species who are so much the same but a little odd and different. And so, what I wanted to do is just frame how we see the market today, just being literal and just using the data that we have and that we've gathered. And the second part of the presentation I just want to give you all a rundown of our thinking on the industry overall. And I'm going to preface this a little bit with this. So, at Pantheon, one of our core values is trust. One of the ways this shows up in our own internal presentation is we try to be just honest about what we see, so both good and bad. So, this is a little unvarnished, so I apologize a little bit in advance. But we think it's just worth putting on the table. So, the first thing I'll just start out by pointing out is the website industry is freaking huge. It's $190 billion a year. It's bigger than the digital advertising industry. If you're a marketer, your website is your most important digital product. It's been this way forever. A lot of companies spend a lot of money on the website and do not buy AdWords or buy advertising. And businesses that spend a lot on advertising, where do you think they're sending that traffic to the website? So they care a lot about how it converts. It's a much bigger industry than the email, SaaS industry. It's a bigger industry again than the digital advertising industry. And a lot of that money is spent obviously on creating experiences, designing, development, but also hosting software, all these things. So it's a huge industry. And as you all know, it's a very fractured industry. So to rationalize it for ourselves internally, we split the vendors, the products, into a few different market segments. So on the left, you'll see Wix, you know, GoDaddy. These products are built for end customers who are building the website themselves. That's our perspective. So if you own a business and you have afternoon free, you can spend $10 a month and choose a design template and in a couple of hours or even 30 minutes be up and running. And this part of the industry, you know, frankly, Wix is kind of running away with it. They have a phenomenal product. They're the market leader in terms of revenue. If you ever use a product, it's gotten a ton better for that segment of the marketplace in the last five years especially. And it's really interesting. So, you know, we at Pantheon don't really consider that a segment that we service, you know, we start to care about customers when they have a marketer on staff. And certainly, there's some overlap between Drupal and that segment, but we don't think there's that much. There's more between WordPress and Wix and those segments overlapping. But, you know, we really think that WordPress and Drupal compete mostly in what we call the corporate segment. And these are all kind of squishy titles and you can come up with your own classifications of revenue size or company size. But what's interesting in this segment is that content management has been really ascending. So, we've just recently entered what the, you know, kind of market economists call the late majority of the buying curve. So, more than 50% of the world's websites, you know, use content management now. And so, anyone else who's not used a CMS system that's using one today, they call that the laggard part of the marketplace. So, what that means is that most marketers, most companies already are seeing and already understand the benefits of modern content management. And then, of course, as you know, what's happened in the last five years is that the CMS industry has essentially coalesced. Primarily around WordPress and Drupal. And then, on the enterprise side of the marketplace, you see vendors like Adobe and Cycor and Acquia, of course. And, you know, if you've worked in these constraints, these are customers that have security requirements. They have long-term budgets. They have all these needs of, you know, of an enterprise that must be served for you to serve them as an agency or as an internal team. So, that's our lay of the land. If you look at the industry numbers, these are estimates. They're not entirely accurate. We think they're directionally correct. So, AEM, we think is about a billion dollars a year. Godaddy and Wix, it's only Godaddy's website business. They have their domain business and other businesses. Website business is about 500 million. Wix is about 500 million. Cycor, Acquia, Automatic WV engine. So, the takeaway from this is there are, count them up, seven companies, you know, $100 million of revenue or greater. And, by the way, this is the most important point for me, Wix, with $500 million of revenue, has 1.1 site market share. It's a massive market and it's a very fractured marketplace. And, I believe it's only now starting to rationalize, like only in the last couple of years. It's kind of a mind blowing figure. So, we've done a bunch of research on the market sizing and we're gonna publish all the research on a blog post so you don't need to write all the stuff down. And, there's different ways of looking at it. This is just one way. What we did essentially is we looked at about 1,200 companies with different bands of revenue. So, one to five million dollars, five to 10 million dollars up through, you know, half a billion to a billion and then 10 billion on the right side. That's the revenue of the organization, you know, company, non-profit, doesn't matter. And then we looked at what CMS, they're using by relative share. So, if they don't use a CMS or use a CMS other than Cycor, Adobe and Drupal WordPress, they don't show up. So, it's really, it's kind of a simplistic view of the marketplace, but it's an interesting view of the marketplace. So, what you'll see on the left side, which is no, it's not a surprise, WordPress simply dominates. You know, in the one to five, five to 10, even the 10 to 50, you have a huge amount of market share. One note on this is that we credit your share if you run a CMS on any observable domain. So, this is a little bit, it's actually generous to CMS systems that show up more for microsites that enterprises run. We're not doing it by only the main website. That's a different way of looking at it, which we'll, again, we'll publish both at, you know, sometime after this presentation. But then if you look at the right side, WordPress shows up much less, and that's where you see companies like Adobe, you see Drupal a lot more, you see Cycor. That's generally the spread. And this is part of why we think that the Drupal ecosystem especially is at a crossroads because we kind of show up in the middle. And here's the biggest point for us. And this is where I'm gonna exit the land of facts and enter the land of things that we think about and things at Pantheon that we believe in deeply. So, at the end of the day, what we think, and we think this is a very large and very important trend for our industry that is acknowledged by only a small fraction we think of professionals. That's professionals at agencies or professionals inside organizations that buy content management technologies. I think it's a very early trend that's gonna carry through to fruition. We think at the end of the day, this is not a controversial statement, but it's an important statement and we kind of had this self-realization about nine months ago, showed up in, you know, Dries' keynote talked a lot about this. We all work for marketers. I'll repeat. We all work for marketers, right? Whether we work in IT, we're working in IT for websites, for marketers. We work in an agency, ultimately, the person who gets the value of a website, gets the value of the work that we're doing as a marketer. If you, at Pantheon, at the end of the day, people who pay for our service, it rolls up to the value of the marketer. And at the end of the day, we think that the needs and wants of the marketer are gonna determine how the market evolves. And, you know, we think about this a lot because in the world, you know, at Pantheon, we actually work much closer to the meta, like much closer to the world of developers and designers, people, you know, like everyone in this room, and the world I've come from, of design and development and creating websites, which is a very important, you know, part of digital marketing, obviously. But marketing is somewhat abstracted from that. You know, marketers, if you know marketers, you are a marketer, you know, design and development and digital experience are very, very important. Your website, again, is your most important asset. You care a lot about it. But you don't live in the world of that. You live in the world of goals. By the end of the day, marketers, if you've talked to marketers, whether it's a revenue goal, a website traffic goal, a lead conversion goal, it's a non-profit donation goal, marketers have goals. And connecting the dots between the work that we all do as practitioners building websites and the ultimate needs of the marketer, that is, we think, that ability to connect the dots is gonna be a huge driver of success in the industry. And again, back to honesty. So we honestly think this is gonna be a not easy transition. And this is with agencies in mind, we're working in agency. One of the patterns that we're seeing, and we work with a few thousand agencies who launch paying sites on our platform. So we see this in aggregate. Seeing a lot of agencies honestly struggling. And they're struggling in many ways. They're struggling to win new business. They're struggling to retain their bill rates. And they're struggling, especially acutely, because what generally used to be a $250,000 Drupal 7 project, we're seeing WordPress agencies show up who do quality work, bidding more like $70,000 or $50,000 and doing a good job. So as these WordPress agencies come up market and become more competitive and more used to serving the needs of marketers, that is gonna, there's a whole new pool of talent that brings a lot of compression on bill rates. And at the end of the day, and we'll get into this a bit more, we think that what used to be valuable, implementing content management systems and doing that reliably and doing that in a great way has been very valuable. We'll continue to have value for organizations obviously, but it'll become strategically less valuable over time because most of the market already has that and more people will learn how to do that and provide that. And at the same time, for agencies in the room, what we're seeing is agencies and professionals who instead are able to build strategic relationships where they connect with marketers and they engage with them at the level of business goals are winning more business, commanding higher bill rates. And by the way, because they have the strategic connection with the client, they have sticky relationships that last year over year after year. And that translates into higher profits and it's a much more stable way to grow and build a business. And again, this is an early trend. So we're talking about single digit percentages of agencies who embraced the model on the right. We think that's gonna turn into five, 10, 20, 30% over time. So just going back to this a little bit. So I've been speaking to a lot of marketers. I don't know if you've ever asked a marketer, what do you think about their website? When I ask a marketer, what do you think about their website? Half the time they literally grown, which makes me a little sad. And it's also interesting because it's a huge dichotomy of like, well, we're spending more money on these things than anything else. We spend years of our lives building these websites and investing ourselves in the outcomes and yet we're not happy with the results. What is going on? And when I kind of peel back the layers of the onion with the marketer, what is going on? If you've spent time with the marketer, they're just trying to keep their head above water most of the time, really. Like there's inbound requests all the time from their customer service department, there's a new organizational priority, there's a product launch. Just churning out all of the deliverables to meet the needs of the organization is more than a full-time job. And very, very few of them actually have the ability and the option to take a step back and think strategically about how they're gonna drive an outcome at the organization. But there are some who honestly do. So one of our favorite examples this past year, ACLU, it's a non-profit, it's a 100-year-old non-profit and in one hour, a big piece of news came out about an immigration ban. Within that hour, they had sued the administration in court, they had issued a press release, but more importantly, they had launched a social media campaign, had launched a landing page that sent an email blast and basically captured an entire news cycle for 48 hours and ended up raising more money through the website in the next 48 hours than they had the prior seven years combined. In the span of two days, they went from a $5 million year operation to a, what ended up being a $100 million year operation, because they were able to act and think strategically and use their digital products to literally capture a news cycle. So here's another thing we talk about inside Pantheon Law, we believe very deeply. And this is a, probably a controversial statement. I think it's a controversial statement. We think this website relaunch idea is an idea 10 years out of date. We think it's a giant lie. We, the thought that you're gonna lock yourself in a conference room for two months, six months, one year, two years, you're gonna figure out all the messaging and branding and design and feature implementation and write this huge RFP and find an agency or an in-house team to go plow through all the lists and all the requirements. And then you're gonna merge from that conference room and hit the button and all of your digital marketing problems will be solved forever. It doesn't work. I say this as being part of literally hundreds of website relaunches for clients previously and now tens of thousands of them, hundreds of thousands of them at Pantheon. It doesn't work. It's a huge mixed mess of expectations. It's a huge burnout. And it's not, the organizations that are using their website very, very, very effectively don't do it this way. Instead of this model, the website relaunch it's like a combination of Mad Men style, big brand, one big marketing campaign. You combine that idea with burning on a CD, software development, waterfall process. Like that is a website relaunch. Instead, the organizations that are truly using their website effectively and actually able to drive results have this much more agile approach. Now it's not to say you don't do big projects. Of course you're gonna do a big Drupal 8 implementation. You're gonna do a big usability overhaul or information architecture that will take months to do. I'm not saying you don't do big projects but you treat those big, heavy foundational lifts like day zero. When you're done, that's when the work begins because that's your foundation to then and go iterate and to learn what actually works and double down on the things that are working and fix things over time. If you get half of the things right in the big relaunch, great. That means you have more, the website will never be done. And ultimately what we think in this, I really wanna invest in this slide. It doesn't really communicate what we're seeing come into focus. But ultimately the way we really sing in the industry is really this kind of convergence, for lack of a better word, where organizations now understand, they just do get the idea that they can use a modern CMS system like WordPress and Drupal to publish content. And they can do that every day, every hour. Get your coffee in the morning, go to work and publish things on the internet. That's an incredibly liberating thing for marketing organization to be able to do. And at the same time, marketers understand that they need to be able to analyze results. They need to know when we do a campaign, what we got from it. If we can A-B test or look in Google Analytics and see the parts of our digital experiences that are truly working and act on that data. That's a known thing. But the missing piece we've seen is actually tying that back into the most important asset you have, which is your website. The actual digital experience, the landing page that's gonna convert a customer from visiting a website into a member, if you're a non-profit or a customer, if you're selling a product. And that's where everyone in the room comes in. That is creating great usability, that's creating great designs, that's creating great experiences. They're actually gonna convince somebody to ultimately enlist or join or purchase. So last slide and then we'll open up for questions. So back to where we opened this up. So here's the thing. There's a timing component to all of this that's very important. The truth is this kind of thinking, this connecting the dots between digital experiences and the needs and wants of a marketer. Honestly it's native to how the WordPress ecosystem exists. Like it's just been there from the beginning. And we're finding many agencies and web teams in the WordPress space, they just get this stuff implicitly because that's how they've always done it. They don't know it any other way. And at the same time, from the top end of the marketplace, AEM frankly is very, very, very good. You could argue the best in the industry at literally connecting the dots between technology and the needs and wants of the marketer. They're very good at selling to CMOs. They're very good and very effective pitch. And in the middle of these two market forces, we're pressing the bottom up, AEM from the top down is our ecosystem. You're like snack between these two ecosystems that fundamentally understand the needs and wants of the marketer. And again, I think this is a huge opportunity. I think very few folks in this industry, it's like 0.1% understand what this opportunity, that's the good news. But the challenge for all of us and the challenge for this ecosystem, we believe very strongly, is to first catch up and embrace this. But over time, do a much better job driving outcomes and driving success for marketers. So I'm gonna close on that and we'll open it up to questions. Yes, sir, excellent question. We should, I ask myself that question every day. I suggest all of you do the same. I think the, and this isn't rocket science, I think the simplest and most important thing we all could do is ask marketers what they care about. Like just start with a question. Don't start with Drupal version. Don't start with a module or a plugin or a thing. Start with what are you trying to do? Like at the end of the year, after we spent all of this energy or time and money working on this website project, when you sit down with your, whether it's the CEO or the executive director, the person you report to, how will you be measured? Like what are you trying to do over the next year? And if that's the framing of the conversation, then I think you'll have a very productive conversation with them about what they care about, what their drivers are. And it turns out that there's not that many hops between what a marketer wants to do and what we do, right? So a marketer might want to increase website traffic so they know they can do that. That will convert a certain percentage of them to a donor or a certain percentage of them to a customer. So then you can turn that into okay, when we increase website traffic and stickiness, let's look at Google Analytics to see the content that's on our Drupal site, what's actually inverting. Now we're on a page that gets a lot of traffic. Are people able to hop off that page and find the next most relevant, most important piece of content? And that is what we do, right? As designers and developers and practitioners, that's the world we live in. It's just literally connecting the hops between those decisions at the website, information, architecture, and implementation level to the goals of a marketer and ultimately to what they're measured on. I do. It's a great question. I don't think I have a perfect answer for you. My read is it's just innately a part of that ecosystem. And my guess would be it's because WordPress has always been kind of from the beginning an end user product. It was always built and designed and embraced as a, first as a blogging platform, as a CMS, as a product everyone should use. And so along with that, it wasn't just developers that embraced it. It was writers and bloggers and publishers and then designers and then marketers and everyone kind of hopped on from the beginning. And then through that journey over the last five, 10 years, they've kept those people with them as part of that journey. So I don't think they thought about it strategically, necessarily. I think it's just been a part of how that ecosystem evolved. Yeah. So he asked a lot of the questions I was trying to think of sort of what the quantitative difference is between the Drupal and the WordPress communities that cause this difference that you're seeing. Is it, it does sound like you're saying it's largely a matter of the behavior that agencies use when they're engaging with their clients about the types of questions they ask and the types of sites that they build as opposed to a fundamental technology difference between Drupal and WordPress or a fundamental feature difference between Drupal and WordPress or the community difference between Drupal and WordPress? It's a good question. So I don't, I don't want to slant my responses or the presentation too much to agencies. I think, you know, Pantheon is a platform, everyone in this room, like whether we're an in-house team or at an agency, we all have a, I think a kind of, there's an overriding need and responsibility in some ways for us to kind of go back to basics. Like really what, you know, what is our job? What, why are we here to do what we do? It's not just to create amazing technologies and plugins and modules and for us, you know, we would neared out in like containers and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's all for a point, right? It is all to do something in the world, you know, drive the mission of the organization we work for or for a client. And specifically, it exists in an industry that is competitive and has customers and clients and buyers with budget. And you know, we need to, we see and acknowledge that and work, you know, ultimately, we think that the customer really, that most, the customer that matters the most ultimately is the marketer. And that's where this need to engage with them and again, go back to basics and start with what are they trying to do rather than what we get excited about maybe sometimes as a starting point for anything that we invest in. Hi, thanks. The middle market is really huge. If you add it up, it'd be the fourth largest economy in the world. Do you think that by focusing on Adobe Experience Manager and Sitecore, we might be missing something? It's a really good question, obviously something we think about a lot. Yeah, I mean, you know, you can't do everything for everybody, right? You have to make decisions, you have to focus. And the simple answer is yes, right? So if you choose to focus on the needs of larger organizations or enterprises and compete with more enterprise applications, you will end up with a more complex product that will be not as easy to use by customers that want something simpler. And I think that's a choice that the ecosystem has made. But I don't think it's a wrong choice. I think it's a specific, I would much rather there be a choice than do what would create far larger challenges, which is to try to straddle everything and then you're not great for anybody. And by middle market, it's 100 to 500 employees. I mean, it's not small. No, I totally agree. And I think that's kind of the, we view that as kind of a fissure line between WordPress and Drupal, right? So what used to be a Drupal 7 project might end up being, instead of a Drupal 8 project, the WordPress project. It's interesting you bring that up about marketers and it seems like you're saying the money is where it's most important, essentially. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but as developers, I've seen for years that we will sit there and say, oh, here come the marketing people. I gotta deal with them. You're saying that's the exact opposite of what we should be doing, right? The other thing is, sorry, I lost my train of thought thinking about that. It's fair. Yeah. Should this be something that, because easy to use, like Steve Jobs always said, it's gotta just work. If that's the most important thing to these people that have the money, should this be something that Drupal Core and the Drupal Core Group should be working on more or is it more individual groups that need to make the change internally? That's a really good question. I think it is literally all of the above. I think building a product that marketing teams and marketing website owners and CMOs that works for their needs, there are certainly trade-offs between doing that and, for example, building tools that make developers' lives easy. Again, you can't do everything for everybody and having a focus more on marketers will mean certain decisions around how the Drupal Core evolves over time and it is definitely our view that it's really important that Drupal works for marketers really, really well. But it's not just that, right? I think it's the, I would say in some ways more important places to start. Again, I'm just going back to basics. It's just the first conversation you have on a new project, just start with what are we, what's our goal? When we're done with this project, what number, whether it's a revenue number or a donation number or a membership number, what is the way we're gonna measure an outcome so that we're all clear on what we're trying to build and what we're trying to do? So, essentially, both the Drupal community and the groups, the companies that do it. Not just Drupal Core, but the companies are both responsible for making a culture change. Is that what you're kinda saying? Yeah, I think so, yeah. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Hey, how's it going? So, regarding the strategic partnerships, I work agency side and we have found that strategic partnerships generally boil down to maintenance and marketing recommendations. So, are you saying, or are you seeing trends that those are pretty much only for enterprise clients where they can be profitable for everyone across the board or is there room in that middle class of? We're seeing agencies divide the market spectrum with every finally, but certainly agencies that serve the middle part of the market, people with the low and maybe a $5,000, $10,000 budget up to $100,000 or $200,000 budget. We're seeing agencies incredibly successful serving those kind of clients where 100% of the revenue is recurring. Because it's not about maintenance of the website, it's about moving a metric that a marketer cares about. And so, we work with a marketing leader, ran all the names of Lauren Rackarello, ran all of digital marketing at Salesforce and then ran marketing at Fox and Adroll, very experienced marketer. She does something very revealing Monday, which was, look, two things. One is, if an agency comes to me and says, I have a $250 an hour bill rate, the first thing I will ask them is, where are your developers? And then I will try to negotiate the bill rate down. That's what I'll do. However, at the same time, if I have a employee who comes to me and says, I wanna spend $50,000 on X, this is what she said. I will say, why are you asking me and why are you wasting my time? I don't care, right? Both are true, right? Sorry, Zach, could we finish the Q&A outside? Just we have an hour present. Okay, come grab me, yeah, of course. Thank you. Yeah, of course. We're actually here at the airport. Oh, what's up? Yeah, we're here at the airport. Oh, what's up? It's going to be check. Yeah, it's going to be check. Yeah. It's going to be check. Yes. Oh, yeah. We're working with a question, and then we're going to go through exactly, that's what people will spend a ton of money. If you're just maintaining the website, the nuts and bolts, that's very, it's low margin, low revenue. Yes, exactly. Hello, oh hey, how's it going? Awesome, are you talking to one of our staff? Desik. Yes, I will be there. Who are you speaking?