 Welcom y toffi TV today, I am joined by Everton's most succesful ever captain. It is, of course, Kevin Rackliff. Kevin, thank you so much for taking the time out today to have a chat with us. I know, problem. Safely back home from Spain. You were there in stories, you were trapped in Spain, so it's good to have you back. I wasn't kidnapped. If they did they would have let me go a lot earlier, I think, if they were kidnapped me. But no, it was okay. I think the good thing was, over there, you had better weather here. Oh right, okay. So it kept everybody indoors, if you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. But the last couple of days before we come back, it was 28 degrees, it was scorching, no wind. I'd say, well that's worse because you can't go out to get some breeze. So you wouldn't be able to walk down to the beach or somewhere where it's a little bit cooler. So you couldn't sit out on the patio or anything, it was just blistering. And like I say, it was good that, I mean, it's like solitary confinement, I suppose, as a prisoner. But when you've done 76 episodes of the Saperanos and it's a bad ending, it's not good, believe me. No, no, no. Let's talk about happier days. Let's talk about happier days. Apprentice at Everton, how did that come about? Evertonian as a boy? Yeah, I went to a few clubs. I went to Tottenham and spent a week down there with a couple of lads that I actually knew, Taffee Kendall, who was down there. I think he was an apprentice at the time or a first year pro, Terry Boyle, who played there. I've sort of been on trials with the under 15s when they were there. And a lad called Taki McHyloff, Constantinus McHyloff, his name was. He was a Welsh under 15 international with me from Cardiff. I stayed with him each time for Tottenham. But I didn't like it. I think they put me up on the Broadwater Estate, you know, down there. And it was a little bit different than being up north. Then I went to Man City on trial, didn't let the lads, believe it or not. I couldn't get on with the Manchester sort of gang that was there. Peter Barnes's brother was one of them. I think the other one was the centre off that played for him. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. Round about the same time as me, same type of player, small but centre offish. I think he went to Blackburn in the end, somewhere like that. But just didn't like it, just didn't like the feel. Once again, I went with a few Welsh internationals under 15 lads that didn't like it as well. And I went to Wrexham and Chester. Loved it at Chester. Cliff Sear was there, the youth team coach, and treated you great. Ken Roberts, the manager. I was injured and they used to go in there for treatment. He'd take me to school at past nine, before training. That was the manager, Ken Roberts. I had a great sort of love for the club, even though it was Welsh. I was just over the border. I had a great love for the club and I thought, oh, I quite fancy this. I'm looked after really, really well. But when you go to Bellfield, you get trained by Colin Arvey. You get shouted at by Colin Arvey. It's a little bit different. It's your club and it was one that when you got that training facilities as well, there's only one place you're going to go. No promises, but get your head down and work hard, really. I had a short apprenticeship mainly because of your age. It went from when you signed in July to when you were 18. I was 18 the following year in November. They had to tell you three months before your birthday. I literally just had over a year to prove myself, to get a pro contract. So I got a pro contract for one year and then the following year I got a two-year contract. So I was knocking on the door pretty early, you know, as a player. But unforgettable. You learn a lot, but I think you learn a lot then a lot quicker, mainly because you're playing with better players. That's no disrespect to the lads who are playing now. But I was playing with the likes of Roger Kenyon, Terry Daricaw, Neil Robinson, Mick Buckley. They're all playing reserve team football. If I'm playing alongside somebody like Roger Kenyon, I'm learning the game very, very quickly. But if I'm playing alongside a player that's the same age as me and has got no experience, I'm not learning too much. So you're finding your feet the hard way. I think that's why sometimes it's taken a lot longer for players to come through. They don't know the game and they're learning it by the mistakes in the first thing, rather than the mistakes in the reserves. Yeah, that's right. It's a massive loss. Reserve team football is a massive loss, I think. You know, under 23 football. You may as well go and watch it. Anybody, because they all play the same. It's a non-contact force. It's not for me, I must admit. I think the worst thing that ever happened was the Lancashire A and B Leeds got dismantles and the Central League. And the other thing is you see other players coming through. Or you're playing against Liverpool and you'd be playing against top players. You might be playing against an international that's coming back from injury. And you're learning from these players. So it's great. And then you're going over to play Berry the following week. And you play Berry reserves. And you're playing against the areas forward. That's just been dropped from the game. All you want to do is knock seven bells out of you. And then you've got portagabbing to get changing. A great way of camaraderie and growing up. And that's one of the reasons, I think, that our players are soft these days. Mentally soft as well. You see the issues that people have got. I know it's about and this is a problem. But I certainly think a lot of it is the upbringing that you get in these days. It's quite soft, the upbringing. You've got to be very, very delicate in the way that you deal with players. And it's not going to be soft, soft, soft. And then all of a sudden turn up a good of some part playing in front of 40,000. And the next person, you make a bad mistake. And somebody's shatting down your arrow from the paddock. Grow up. Grow up very quickly. You're right. I've said this, taking things off them, duties off them, like cleaning the dressing rooms and cleaning boots. It's great saying concentrate on the football, but they've certainly lost that education and playing against Marine and people like that. A different education, aren't they? I mean, we used to go to school on a Monday. So effectively you had the Monday off, but I'd say what I can out of about 20 of us that went to college on a Monday, I bet you're only five turned up for college. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wasn't one of them five. In the end, I'd say what he started doing, started going into training. He didn't want a day off to go to college. And once you've done that once or twice, you start thinking, if I get caught, I'm going to get supported by the club here. I'm going to go in anyway. So, you know, someone's someone's. Fair enough. I mean, you're talking about having to grow up. You made your debut at Old Trafford, coming on for John Gibman. I mean, what was that like? John Gibman got ill in the afternoon. So I actually started the game. Oh, you didn't start that once, were you? Billy Wright moved to right back and I slotted in. And so that's how the come about came because then my next game obviously was a semi-final against Westam, the replay at Ellen Road. Once again, Billy Wright got moved to right back, but John Gibman went into midfield. You talk about tactics and they've only just occurred. It's only because of, you know, Sky TV that people have been aware of tactics. But you know, our tactic that day was to put John Gibman a man Mark Alan Devonshire. He did that good of a job Alan Devonshire scored. But that was the thinking in that. I mean, obviously, you know, I think I played then one more game against Tottenham that year and that was it. It wasn't until the following year, but I come back then that following year and played as a left back for some reason. I'd never, ever played left back. Until I went to Everton. I actually went there, believe it or not. Some of my teammates might think, oh, the hell was this? I went there as a midfield player. Did you? Yeah, yeah. But every team I got into, and I had a trial basis, I played in midfield, but for some reason I played, I got into the Welsh under 15 side by playing midfield. So I was left midfield with me Alan Ball boots on. And then when you get picked to play for Wales, they put you at centre back. So I don't know what that was all about. Same at Everton, you know, that they'd seen me playing at centre back for Wales. And that's why they brought me in. But after about a year or two, I think they were having a problem at left back. I think it was only John Bailey. They wanted somebody to compete with him. I think, you know, Ray Deacon, who sadly is no longer with us, he was a left back at the time, but he had a really bad injury and had to retire from the game and got a coaching job subsequently at Everton. But other than that, there wasn't any left backs at the club. So they were asking me to go and fill in there and play reserve team for them. But you know, it's something that you just didn't like. Didn't like the left back position. Didn't know what the game was about in that area. I actually loved playing left back towards the end of my career. I thought you knew the game. I had more experience to play there, knew the game, knew when to get forward, when to get back. And I thought my quality on the ball was a lot better than when it was sort of 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. There's a different position. It's probably the pace wise as well, isn't it? Maybe laying in the game. That's a thing that I think is left back. If they just said to me, look, just go out there and mark the winger. That was me. I would have done that all day. There's nobody going to go past me for pace. But it's when the other things are joining, play the ball into the centre floor. I think that's when I struggled. Fair enough, fair enough. The next season you played 27 games, 80, 81, and obviously played in a, we beat Liverpool 2-1 which was probably the highlight of that year in the FA Cup at Godduson in Labour Ardi. You played in that one. Was that my first Derby? I think that was the first one. I went through the appearances because I was having a check and sure it was. I think somebody put on Twitter about the game and Imre quoted about the meat pie going in his face. I remember that and I said, I think that was one of my first Derby's. Was it the one where Kenny got taken off at half-time? Yes, he went off. He still scored. Peter, he still scored. I remember I caught Kenny a beauty on the turn in the box he was shooting on. I caught him a beauty and I think he had to have stitches. He went off and then he did a little, what's the name, super sub, Dave Faircliff come on for him. It was, I think there was like, was there to be about 58? 62,000, something like that. When I tell people, I played in front of 62, 58, whatever it was. After that, every season, you went and played in the Derby match. The gates seemed to get less and less because they were putting restrictions. When you look at Gullison now and it looks bigger than what it was before and you're only getting 40,000 in. I'm sure I played in front of 62,000 there. You probably did, but the moment I've registered that, I think the highest the ad was like 55, 54, 900 and something, but there was well more. You will have played in Derbyll. I'm sure there was a lot more. I definitely know that I played in front of 56, 58,000. That was definitely the highlight of that season. It wasn't obviously a great season, but we knocked them out the FA Cup, which was nice. It was Gordon Lee, the manager there. Gordon Lee, that was Gordon's final season. We beat them 2-1. We get to the summer and Howard comes in with his magnificent 7, which weren't nearly that magnificent apart from Neff, really. Tim Arnold was your goalkeeper, he was, to be fair. Yes, with Jim out of then 7, never with Jim. Were the only ones that come through it with flying culture. Forget Jim Arnold. He was a great shop stopper. I don't know what age he is. I think he's about 10 years older than me. I remember him coming. The press used to travel on the bus with us. I remember when I turned up at the start of the season, we were going away somewhere for a pre-season game. We'd just signed Jim Arnold and I got on the bus and I'd seen this guy there and he was like, I'm sorry mate, the press city were at the back, the players. I thought, sorry, I said, this is the players' seat. The players unit. I thought he was a press, he looked that old. He just had that look, that look of a distinguished gentleman playing football. He was a funny lad as well. I think he trained as a copper after he left Emerton. He was good. I think we played at Man United and he had an absolutely tremendous game. He got man of the match and we left him behind. Fair enough. That was a simpler for punctuality. The bus was gone. It was like one second over. Let's go. He didn't do it again, did he? He wasn't late again. He slaughtered the lads. He slaughtered the lads. He was funny. Things like that. It was so funny. What was, obviously, 27 games that season, 81, 82 with Howard. It was mixed results, wasn't it? The next season, seeing this on, the Howard's Way film actually you're talking about the Derby, the 5-0. You were out the side at that moment. Just tell us that story again, cos it is funny. I think the fact was that he brings in Glenn Keely and I'm thinking, Glenn Keely? All of a sudden, I'm looking down the pecking order. Mark Higgins is injured and I'm thinking, there's no way. I've got no chance here. What am I wasting my time being here for? Cos there's a perfect opportunity if he needs to go in. Like you say, I think I played in the Derby the year before. But that was undergone, Lee. Howard comes in and I don't know with Howard, I'm not too sure if he thought I wasn't quite good enough or wasn't not ready. So I'm sat in the stand with Iggy and Brian Labone, literally, within 5 yards or one another, and every time a goal goes in, we're looking at each other and going. And I keep thinking to myself, I must be some bad player if I can't get in this side. I must be a bad player. I'm thinking. You know one of them, the old ones where you turn around and say bloody hell, I wish you had your boots ready, I'm going to get in this side now. And then after the game, and I did this before because if you had asked me before, could you have a lift home? I think he'd gone away. So that's what I did. I still kept to him that I'd give him a lift home. He sort of said to me, I still like that lift and I went, yeah. And he said, hold on a minute, he went into the changing room and he come out with the ball and he said, do you think you could get to that side by the rest of the lads? No, politely. My answer was that, I'm not going in. Come on, mushy. And we went out and there was loads of supporters outside the Wenslow and that's the way we went, them days. Down the bus road to the car park at the back and I'm walking. I got more stick than mushy and I never even played. You weren't even playing. Thank you Jesus Christ. Give him a lift back home. He still talks about it himself. I think he was on the radio this morning talking about it. My radio city was doing a little bit fun talks. Talk city or something. It's one of them moments. I say we're so good friends otherwise it wouldn't have been the same. I used to take him into training. Because he was banned from driving I used to take him into training. But the rule that I had was that I drop it outside the Shankley Gates and not going inside the Shankley Gates. I think that's where the shop was. By the way I'll be picking you up at such and such a time. If you're not here I'm going. I'm not coming in looking for you. He was waiting for me every day. Every day that I took him home. Then it so happened that he used to come to the house and get dropped off at the house. Then I'd take him in from Koski. I think we just started pre-season near the first match of the season. He comes from the house but he gets dropped off at the bottom of the hill. That's a good mile walk off a mile to a mile walk. He walked up this hill and the steepest hill you could ever think of. He got there early. That's the only way he could go in. His uncle was going to work or something. On days. He walked up the hill knocked on my door. I wasn't in. My wife was on the baby and had gone in about four o'clock in the morning. He was stuck on top of this hill with my house. He had to walk. Lucky enough his uncle or aunt he lived down the road. Not far from where he got dropped off so he went down there. I think he got a little bit of a fine. I will it on. If you want it there. You got in after that 5-0 and in that centre back as well. We won't. We beat up Switzerland away and then looting 5-0 at home. I got in because Billy Wright got dropped and had a little bit of a weight problem. He got dropped. Howard got fed up with telling him Howard then all of a sudden changed the routine of getting weighed on a Monday on a Friday rather than just a Friday. If you were marking him as a Billy Wright you'd never play a game if you got weighed on a Monday. They would never ever get a game. They must have lost maybe half a stone in a week to play the next game. I think Howard asked Billy to lose so much and the next time he weighed him he'd put it on and not lost it. He dropped it. I got the opportunity and we won. Me and Iggy playing alongside each other. Two clean sheets on the run. Two left footers which I think Howard I think that was one of the reasons I've never played because I was a left footer. Obviously Iggy was more of a centre half that he liked. We just yelled me and Iggy. Unfortunately Iggy got a hernia operation. Very similar. Exactly the same as me which finished my career more or less. Me, Pedge, Gary Stanley, Iggy. Iggy wasn't the same player. He couldn't get rid of it. But I still say from that day to this that if Iggy hadn't got injured we wouldn't have bought Dave Watson. No. We bought Derek for 30 grand so obviously he was going to come through at some point or might not even come through. It was a big shame that Iggy had got injured because he was a captain and he would have been picking them trouble. He was a good player and he was quick but people don't forget and that's what Howard liked. If you look at our back four especially maybe the 80s, 17s, 86s, 87s every one of us were quick. Gary Stevens, Waggy was quick as well. Derek was quick when he played. I was quick and Pat. Athletic wasn't it? I was a very quick back four. In that season you scored your first goal for Everton. I watched it again just to see what the hell you were doing at Norwich. You picked the ball up, play it wide. That's joining in again, that midfield and swept it home. We won 1-0. There's no deals that can get there. I'm looking around me and I can't remember who played in midfield but I'm looking at them and thinking they're not going to make the ground up are they? It was just the normal thing that I did. I think it's become more controlled as I got older but I've just seen to sense, hold on a minute and if they can't make it up surely their players can't make it up and if you think about it it was like all of a sudden ghosted in from nowhere and bang you know I bit it with my right foot first time I was actually trying to control it. You swept it in. Right foot. I only scored a few goalkeepers Chris Wolters wasn't it? I scored three goals in my career and all have been with a different part of my body. Right foot, left foot and my header. So I scored on my debut for Cardiff at Carl Isle so you know I was wasted at the back. Yeah he could have been the new Dixie D for all we know couldn't he? I mean you mentioned Jim Arnold in that game he saved the last minute penalty in that game and we won the game one nil with your goalshow and he also I think kept a clean sheet at Amfield at year between 0-0 5-0 at home and a 0-0 at Amfield I think he got injured at the cop end in it as well and I remember him going down and Clinks was the physio come on and I think I would come on the pitch for something because he was out he's got to come off what we're going to do They turned to Sharpie and I'm sure he said to Sharpie you'll have to go ego he says I'm not going ego not in this cop end I'm going the other end but I'm not going this end unfortunately I think I was going to go in but I think he had a little bit of a recovery and he was okay and we smelled himself but he was supposed to come off and I think I would have ended up having to go ego in the end because I did a bit of keeping training that was a little bit of a joke that we used to have and I played obviously Dan at Chelsea when they've got sent off I played in goal and that was a question I think three Welsh internationals to playing goal to playing goal for us in the same game in the same game so that was there and when I went in they had a free kick from outside the box and Mickey he had a free kick and he's bending things into right corners and everything so he tried to do it and I just gave him something to aim for and I made the ground up and flicked it around the post so that gave me the confidence but they were saying put the ball in the box and everything well if I wasn't going to punch the ball away I was going to punch their heads off so I was just throwing myself at everything I kept I was actually better than them I kept the clean sheet so I went in and said to them they've got a clean sheet there you could have been a striker or a keeper you were wasted I was an all rounder show it seems 83-84 obviously things clicked into place we'd signed Peter Deed Andy Gray came in as well read the come the year before and he'd come on his own he wasn't one of the Magnificent 7 I think he'd come after the Magnificent 7 didn't he late 82 he'd come the only played he had the 7 games in that first season and then it was the it just wasn't happening for Reedy you know I just don't know what it was it wasn't happening everybody got on with him but there was always that thing in the back of your mind and there had been a lot of rumours going around there we'd spent 60 grand on him and you know asking to kick the ball over 40 or 60 yards asking to do this, asking to do that he can't do it, can't do it we were actually asking questions of him but things when he was his knee was alright that he couldn't do anyway so you know was Reedy known for passing the ball over 40 yards not really no but he got around the pitch he made himself a nuisance but did did the easy things what people don't like doing didn't have a trick but that's what teams were about you know if you didn't have a there was other players in the south side your Sheins and your Trevor Stevens that could do that but I think it was Howard not finding the right blend in midfield and then after that after that commentary game when Reedy come on then all of a sudden it seemed to click he had the right sort of blend in midfield I think Kev Rich played with him a few times but it was dropping it underneath down into midfield and the reason behind that was that Inchey you know didn't have the best of times in front of him he was getting one-on-ones with the keeper and the keeper was sending him the wrong way you know I remember him getting through a couple of times and I'd be like this not Adrian and I think because he spent so much money on him because he spent so much money on him to release the pressure off him dropped him into midfield and his energy in midfield along Reedy was brilliant and then obviously when he did get the chance to go back up front his goal-scrolling record before he got that injury was unbelievable I think it was something like 10 goals in 12 games and Andy Gray was sitting on the bench wasn't getting a game you know fortunately for Andy through that injury of Adrian so he got that opportunity then to come back into the side but his professionalism along that way was brilliant Andy coming into the side after the Coventry game after buying him on the Thursday I thought a big risk by Howard bringing in a player that really was supposedly finished he must have been some player before if he was supposed to be finished fearless he was absolutely brilliant we obviously got the 10 of the year we had another Coventry game which was the Cushions and all that but then we go and win at Birmingham and go and win at Stoker and nowhere and then went on a fantastic run didn't we Was the Birmingham game was that one of Derek's first games? I think so, yeah we just got pasted three in Illet Wolves and we were poor that day and then we went to Birmingham that's where Derek hit as well I think but it could have and I think they had the Ftree playing for them didn't they Mickey Hartford, Tony Cotun Hopkins Van Den Hau I think was there then and Blake no Blake no Blake they were like lunatics and I remember Howard picking Derek and I'm thinking we're in for a tough afternoon here not seeing Derek play he's coming through and he was young I think he was only maybe 19 20, he'd only just bought him he never lost a header never, against Mickey Hartford ah he was powering him over him and he was powering through the ball and he was absolutely fantastic on the day his debut I think that was and all of a sudden you get your chance you take it and that's what he did you never look back after that no no we went on obviously I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago he was talking about Oxford and things but he was saying that for him and Neville Saltwell said this and Andy Gray said this even though Andy didn't play in it the milk cup final was the one where even though we lost after the replay it was the one where he's all looked at each other on my life we've got nothing even though they're the best team in Europe which they proved it we've got nothing to fear anymore was that the same was that the same for you yeah yeah definitely so I mean we matched them in more more ways than that we always knew that physically we were tougher than them and I think we had to implement that into our style you know to beat them get right and wired into hook up by crook and you know with the extra talent we had as well in certain areas we could create chances so I mean that was you know it was you know one that you'd come off it and you're thinking we're more than a match for these and then when they won the replay at main road so disappointing but I look at that game and I think it would Suey won't say this he'll say it's a great goal but he took that ball and just as it got to him it bubbled and he took he had to take it the other way which was great but it's good and he turned me and then shot but I read it that he was turning the other way but because the ball bounced the other way because you've got to remember in them days and you've been watching these retro games now you know I've been watching a few pitches are awful you know and a lot of these you know sort of pundits and pros sorry from this era now saying the quality of football is poor you don't want the ball at the back just in case when it rolled out to you not only would it take a bobble you were being closed down by a big area centre four we do wanted to snap you in too if you made a mistake so you know that the pitches were awful awful and you know you don't see some Duncan Mackenzie the other day against Stoke going past people show boating to do it on the pitch was awful absolutely dreadful I've said this loads of times carpet now compared to what you played on these guys they're training on better pitches than what we played on and they save the games quicker it's only quicker because the pitches are you know a smooth and you're running straight lines without having to check because it's changed direction or whatever you'd love to be playing now with the pitches that they are you'd have had a failed day on that but we recovered from that and obviously we go on to win the FA Cup what was that like as a boy of Everton into have the arm band on and be able to go up them steps and pick the FA Cup you know we'd all had the experience of playing at Wembley a couple of ones before I think that helped massively you look at the Watford team I don't think John Barnes was in the England team then I think Blissett might have been I'm not quite sure but I think maybe one of them might have played at Wembley the game before I think I was the only Everton player that had actually played at Wembley because I played for Wales schoolboys as a 15-year-old there and had also played for Wales now I don't know if never actually played for Wales at Wembley because obviously the international home international finished in 84 I wasn't the only one there that experienced playing at Wembley so we all did we knew what it was about we knew the build-up would be different because it's the one thing everybody wanted to do then he's playing a FA Cup final because of the build-up from 8 o'clock in the morning until 12 o'clock at night it's different now it's massively different you're playing semi-finals at Wembley so you've actually played at Wembley so you're not as disappointed but if you're losing a semi-final at Westam at Ellen Road and you've not got to the final you're disappointed but not to play at Wembley so it was a big thing and we've gone into the game firm favourites you've all got to have a little bit of luck and I think the luckiest thing for me on that day was John Barnes getting through having a great shot gets past Neff and John Bailey's on the line just directly past the post goes out for a corner referee give it a go and you know when things in the game just turn and that's all you need that's all you need as a player the thing as well I think their skipper was in you once and he never played or suspended or the left back because if you remember the left back had a horrid time against Trevor and then I think they changed him at half time so Trevor tore the backside out he was here the great you think Trevor had just got into the side he never played in the semifinal no no no Charlie never played in the semifinal yeah so that team was just coming together to win the league Charlie then convincing Howard that he was the man to play up front with Andy and Inchy so there was a lot of coming together from winning that FA Cup people ask you which is the best that's the best trophy that I have won out of the leagues and everything that's my favourite because the first one was always very very special and it's something it was treated differently in more ways than one in them days and it was a big thing a massive thing to go and play out Wembley huge huge not so much now no it's the way it's gone it's sad really because it was the show piece wasn't it it was what everyone looked forward to even if you're I mean if you're going you're getting all the way to the final you're only going to win a million pounds you know you know you're getting more for finishing sort of 14th in the Premier League these days aren't you yeah for prize money it's sad really did you going into that next season obviously we beat Liverpool and the charity shield Howard brought Paul Braishwell and did you were you confident or did you even think that there was a possibility we could challenge for the title or was it just let's keep this going well I think that's what Howard said after the game enjoy your summer and we've got bigger things to fry you know for next season and then when he brings in Paul Braishwell I'm like why has he brought him in I've barely heard of him why is he better than Kevin Richardson and I felt sorry for Kev Braish was tremendous yeah he was fantastic he was I always say even when I'm talking you don't realise how good Paul Braishwell was until he wasn't there the amount of energy you try replacing him he was just he read the game his ranger passing but he never really looked for anything fancy if it wasn't on he wouldn't do it he'd come back and he'd start again and him and Reedy they're very very rarely more than 10 yards from each other especially when they had the ball all of a sudden as a pair and they doubled up they were great great and makes your job easier at the back when you've got two guys like that in front of you it spoke to Paul Braishwell last week and he was saying obviously the lads made it easy for him and he'd come in and the team was just clicking we obviously had a poor start we lost the first two games but then we just went everything just come together we got great run aids and he was brilliant and he got injured and then I was saying to Paul last week that we played Chelsea just before Christmas at home and got B4-3 he scored his first goal first did he get a hat-trick? two I think he got best game you ever had he had a storm that day at the Welsh the old yellow kitten but after that it was 28 games before we lost another game in all competitions and when I think of it now I made up with Everton go three games without losing 28 games unbelievable was it just a thing of getting on that role and the confidence flowing? well when you think that sometimes the teams that were being picked to go out and play you're thinking where did he play? and then you're thinking oh he must have played such and such oh he didn't I'm thinking I think there was one game I can't remember who was playing it was just ridiculous teams that I would have picked maybe because of injury you got through the game we got we found a way of beating teams didn't matter what you hear of it now but all successful teams do that and they find a way and it's an ever give up attitude there's someone in your team I would always use to say if you keep a clean sheet we've got the lads up there that can win us the game a bit of shady bit of magic or whatever just you keep it tight don't be conceded because we'll always be in the game I like all good teams the amount of goals you scored in the last 10 minutes it's mainly because you're fitter than them and you're better than them people say about fitness levels these days it doesn't matter what area you're playing you are fit enough to play the game of football these lads these days are still getting cramped so how can they be fitter than you they haven't got much to run around in no exactly it was unbelievable it's great to go into a game knowing that you're not going to get beat and it's how many you're going to win by it's great as a fan Kef it's great as a fan to go with the lads thinking like that and it's nice going into a game not feeling up just going into a game not feeling 100% not feeling right and then you look around and you're thinking I owe pay to nine of these guys are feeling better than me and all of a sudden after 15 minutes you forget about it and you're back into your game you can't be on top of your game for what I think I played 65 games one year you can't go into every game being 100% physically or mentally I used to hate away games I always used to feel tired away from home believe it or not I could never find a routine to get into that actually suited me but I got through games I got through games look everybody nobody wanted to be left out and that's easy when you're winning things but saying I'll tell you the story that me and she we played Westrom in the cup and who's the lad on the TV now I keep forgetting his name I know him really well as well Westrom and Wolves Don Goodman Don Goodman so we're playing against him and he's rapid but when we got injured me and she and the way I can remember what it was it was ankle I think mine was ankle and his was a knee so we've gone down just as like the squad thinking I would say and look I'd like you to come down but have a just to chill and everything come down and be a part of the side that's what he was good at so we've got down there and we're having that night and he turned round to me and she said right you two said fitness test in the morning me and she just looked at each other and thinking oh wait I'm going to pass the fitness test can't run me ankle's knackered and he said well he's killing me so we got up the next morning with John Clincard both failed the fitness test and got picked she'd scored an equaliser with a penalty the penalty yeah we both got picked to play it was like I got through it I played the replay then in the week against Don Gole I think we beaten four or something but it was amazing how psychologically how would it get you through again a lot of the time you were playing games because you wanted the bonus as well and a lot of the lads if they weren't on a certain wage bracket would get an appearance money that's where how would work that side of it there was a basic wage a top earner would get and if you were below that you would get an appearance money to take it up to that so you were on the same money as the fight that was playing in front of you or ahead of you and you all got the bonus the same bonus as in win bonus or draw bonus or whatever so sometimes you were getting three times as much as your basic wage by playing three games a week you sort of sat day sat day play three games in eight days and you get three times as much as what you were earning good incentive though isn't it good incentive I tell you what you'd be kicking the person who was trying to battle for your claims you know very true the highlight of that season cab obviously by Munich what was it like going over to the Olympic stadium as it was then cos they were some team and we'd go over to that big place big pitch in Germany I was disappointed with it I was because atmosphere wise it was good but too far away from the crowd it was a really track so there's no atmosphere as what you'd expect for the amount of people being in there and we handled it really really well I mean it was our first big test by the way but how would you put an extra midfield player in it Travis even played off the front didn't he cos he played five in midfield but I think I think was it Alan Harper played as well I think I think we played four five one I think Alan Harper would have played on the right hand side then Reedy and Bruce and then I think Andy played up front Was there Andy up front and I think Trevor was just off him I think Oh no Andy was sorry not sub I think he was injured I think Sharp he played up front Go on keep talking I'll find it the most the thing is that you look at that side that back four never changed no right the way through the season I bet you bang every game that back four played together Yeah, Sharp was up front Reid, Stephen Harper, Bracewell Bridgeton and Sharp was up front four five one yeah so there's no sheets he was injured and Andy Gray so well you know you look at the impact that them two had in the game at home yeah especially Andy you know with his brutality it's just yeah what was the home game like for you scary scary you've never ever experienced anything like that in your life I think I've seen Goodison like that maybe once or twice after but not on the magnitude of what the game meant no they've just seen and that I mean I think it was the night the Duncan scored against Man United when they were flying the atmosphere that night was fantastic and I think the other one was when Rooney scored when he was young against Arsenal but I would actually say that the Arsenal game then was very similar to after the game with the supporters as in staying behind 20 minutes different cases but in the same type of manner as in we've seen something special here and we might not get this again and that was with the whole team in my era but with Wayne Rooney seeing Wayne Rooney and doing what he did but as in atmosphere it still sends goose bumps up your back now you just wonder that long ago now how did you cope with it how did we cope with it because you know I'm a great believer that if you're not nervous you're not going to have a good game I was glad it was nervous that night I'm not saying I played Going behind 1-0 as well and then playing so well in the second half defensively playing so well in the second half as well because they didn't really get a sniff in that second half playing all sorts of things in the second half trying to entish it into a fight to do something off the ball especially in the penalty box that was a thing that you should do a lot foreign players do things off the ball when the referee went looking so that you'd react I think that happened with the captain with me but I just let him get on with it was last minute of the game and he's trying to elbow me off the ball for me to react if he had a free kick but I look back and I think we were quite professional for the age that we were in the way that we dealt with things but I think a lot of us me especially had made mistakes early on in our career so we sort of learned from that don't get involved in that so Excellent, it was amazing and then to go on obviously speaking to David it's just 35 years exactly since we won the league championship for the first time obviously we've been on a great run and won a chef wedding then QPR at home was a foregone conclusion almost wasn't it it felt like that going into the game I think it was just a matter of doing what we've been doing can't really remember too much about the game other than knowing that we won the league and you just wanted to get it done and over with I think what I can remember was it was a 2-0 scoreline that was quite flatter into them I think we dominated the game it was more or less the one thing you didn't want to do was get carried away with it and slip up and that was it but I can't really I don't think there's too much footage of the game and I always remember I always remember a sharpie score but I can't remember I didn't know the other goal scorer was until maybe yesterday I didn't realise I didn't realise Daxie again smashed it in didn't get too many of them he was either with his head it was great but I went home and cut me grass it was a bit strange I didn't go out celebrating a highly young family it was one of them that I went back cut me grass prepare for the next one prepare for the next one bit different when you've got a family a bad age I think the colour lads they went on the right one but I lived in North Wales I lived in North Wales and it was a lot harder to get home in their place and then obviously that was incredible and as a fan it was unbelievable the culmination of how good we've been but then we've got the cut when it's cut final which we were just unbelievable the football, the scoreline is great and it's amazing when you actually see some of the footage you can watch the whole game I've got the whole game again but we play so well and like you've just said for a young team we've never won a European trophy for a young team to go and I know if you look at the footage that footage of when we've actually kept the ball for about five minutes and then Trevor's Mr Sitter that would have been one of the goals of the year or maybe even the decade all that football was played in there off me and Derek never touched the ball we just watched it and all the football was played so if you can think about that being played and not once did the lads look back and want to play it back with pass those are forward pass or sideways pass I think Gary got involved I think Pat got involved once at the beginning and then I think Gary got involved at some point but it was all about Brace and Reedy Sheads like I said you can play better football than what people give you credit for these days it wasn't all about getting it forward and humping it I watched the game the other day Wales v England when we beat them 1-0 at Repson which was shocking absolutely shocking and no wonder you never played from the back because you didn't want to make a mistake not only you're watching the ball come into you when it's bouncing all over the place and that's why the ball used to get played forward a lot quicker than what it does now because the pitchers were dreadful obviously to win that it was incredible and then we've got the FA Cup final a couple of days later an exit days rest that we win that in your opinion I felt great honestly this I felt great I've heard Sharpie and Andy say that they looked at each other after 10 minutes I'm knackered I'd actually say my role at the back was a little bit easier as in I didn't have to run about especially when I was telling other people to run about for me but that's your own fault I didn't feel tired I felt a hatred in the ground towards us from the Man United fans because of what's her name Moran getting sent off Kevin Moran, yeah I felt a hatred when you've got like grandparents everything in that ground and in them days it wasn't hunky dory football it wasn't going on it's one of the reasons obviously we got the ban from Europe as well but yeah I started thinking about other things rather than the game maybe the only only thing that I would have said that took me high off the ball your mother and father, your sister my nan and grandmother were there they were alright yeah but I just felt really sort of funny with the supporters but you know fair do's you know what I mean it was a great goal a great goal it nearly got there nearly got there and he was in such a bad position in the alone up to this and he still nearly got there it literally a fingertip away from it yeah I think the big one was that Frank Stapleson going to centre back I was quite comfortable marking Frank even though he was a good player and I knew him and Sparky were never going to go in behind us everything would be and it was like hit balls into the box when they got it they were playing the ball backwards then you were happy but when he went to centre back I actually thought he had a great game I thought it was outstanding Frank Stapleson and he doesn't get the credit for that on that day but that was one of them that maybe it wasn't to be now Vedie the post didn't in the first half that shot at the outside of the post that goes in at a different game but I mean that's disappointing you're so confident that we're going to win as well and that's no excuse that maybe but if you have a look at the game we batter them they didn't do much they didn't do much just a great goal we just couldn't score on the day bit like that Oxford game with Gary Linnaker we couldn't score on the day you get 40 goals in one year as a player and you get numerous chances in that and because you haven't taken your boots or somebody's forgotten your boots that's a great excuse well done blame on to someone else let's move on to that obviously we bought Linnaker in the summer and we let Andy Gregor and we kept both to be honest with you but Linnaker and kept Gregor and now it was a different game in them days won the charity shield Andy never really did anything after that no so it was a great manager it's a great bit of business because if you're getting your money back on a player in them days so I think Howard got his money back on Andy and you're looking at it and the other way as well when he brought Linnaker in for £800,000 and then sold it for £1.6 million within a year that was hell of a lot of good business as a manager and that's what he was good at knowing that your time's up sorry off we go I bought Linnaker in I won the charity shield beating Icer and we all thought what should have happened and we start the season we're all right now, we get on a great run and we get to Christmas and then New Year's Day and Bryce picks up that injury which even though we played I was surprised how many games he did still play that season but he did mention something to me last week a gamer on field which you scored your 40-yard dip and volley he did say he couldn't walk at that time and you had a go on he said that was the guy he had to come off he had to come off but he was playing so well and he said what for you're bottling it and me and Bryce used to have an argument it was our fault the back four fault and I used to blame the midfield so we always used to be and I would use to let us go, that's it so I thought it was just one of them occasions again where here he goes, the moaner's off again if he's not moaning about something and he's moaning about that cos he did like a moaner right and he comes and he says sorry but he said I'm fucked he said me and Bill my uncle's killing me but he had all these x-rays and everything I called him something and he was disappointed I think he sort of said he said look that's me and he said to me something after which I didn't know about him what happened with his leg and everything and I think that that year he went to America to get his leg sorted scans had just come out in this country the one thing he's alright bringing the scan in the machine now but if you can't read the book cos it's not worth going on one is it that cost him two years of his career he went on this scan he found nothing, he went to America he found the bone, floating bone so I think for me he brought that bone back in a jar just to show me just to show you that he hadn't done it was like a knife it was crooked like that a lot smaller than my finger but crooked like that, very sharp that was digging in him it's unbelievable I apologise to Bryce no I wouldn't listen but it was you always wonder he was playing so well with pay how would you do that I said this soon you were still as good as you were and you couldn't walk it's bizarre we come out in that second half what possessed you to shoot from there I had a look in front of me and seeing who was then I thought that was the best option because I would pass it to Reedy or shoot I don't know I just I didn't have a bad shot I didn't have a bad shot on me I didn't connect with that one it was a strange one that was great that was great one of our best ever goals there I always wondered why and then I realised I was 66 to 1 and I think Bruce had about 100 quid on me scored the first goal donny jokie Bruce and then obviously Gary put the seal on it donny with a lovely little finish at the cop end we come after it with a linich a score didn't need to make it 2-0 outstanding to go there and to beat dent 2-0 because it was neck and neck but the sad thing about that is they never lost again from then to the end of the season and we lost one against Oxford Oxford you know what Kev I was looking back at the result because the Oxford one rightly say you go on your mind and you go that Oxford game and Les Phillips and linich his boots and all that but we had Forrest the way the game before on the Saturday so we had Forrest the way and Oxford the way and if we win one of those two games we win the league don't we and we go on against Forrest and we had chances as well in that game I think I nearly nicked it late on and the dent but how good we were going into those two games you would have expected us to win one of the two wouldn't you because we were playing so well and everyone points to the Oxford game but two away games on the run we didn't score a goal in I think we lost by two points didn't we yeah two points yeah so that was really the Oxford game I don't know what the goal difference would have been like if we drew but I'm not quite sure but I think it was down to they were at Chelsea was it last day of the season obviously they played at home that day didn't they and we played at you know what you know when we played Oxford they were away as well we were both away which never happens they were at Leicester and once soon and we were away at Oxford I don't know why it must have been maybe it was a game in hand or something but we were away that night and they won 2-0 at Leicester it could have been it was a night game a Wednesday night Oxford I can't remember if that was a night game I thought it was a Saturday game For us was the Saturday Oxford was the midweek it must have been an extra game then to play because if you were in cup games obviously they took present on a Saturday didn't they then them days so we end up but we beat Southampton 6-1 on the Saturday but they won at Chelsea so it was done on Duster we got a loose in that game because we heard they were losing you know what I was on and the atmosphere in the ground just kicked on and within a second or two we scored another one I think it was the one where Reedy passed it to Andy and Andy got the header in was it this one was I remember I was in the front row with the Gladys Street and everyone started cheering after about 20 minutes and Gary Linnick a 10 to us to the front someone was like is it 1-0 and everyone was going yeah and the next minute we went good 3 goals in a couple of minutes we were winning 4-0 or half time we absolutely batted them obviously you've got in the dressing room and they've ever said they're winning more that's a bigger disappointment but you know it's one of them you work so hard all year and then it's taken away from you but what was next week like then sorry what was next week like then the cuff final of following me were you confident going into that no we knew we've got to win we've got to win this but nothing really you don't really change anything than what you've been doing that was a good thing about Howard you know whatever's been bringing your success don't change it keep doing the same things you know if Gary Linnick don't train till Friday don't train till Friday so you know the rest of the lads Howard was one of these that he always rewarded players with days off but if you think he needed a bit more work or whatever and he'd go around the changing room after a Monday and he'd be pointing each way and he'd be telling you when he wanted your in so he'd be going in tomorrow off Wednesday see you Thursday see you Thursday in tomorrow off Wednesday and he'd be going around the changing room like that but at me and Kev Sheedy he always used to get two days off from him Reedy would do a lot of the older but most of the older players did I think it was a matter of games that I played obviously that it was perfect but me and Sheedy used to go in on the Tuesday and just have a little bit of a run and a bit of a game out of head tennis we didn't want a day off didn't want a day off we wanted to come in even if it was just for an hour half an hour just come in and that's what it was like there you just wanted to go in and I got asked the question before by somebody saying what you miss I miss going in do you the camaraderie and all that not just the players but the catering staff you know the groundsmen Dave Ash the cleaner you know people like that I can still keep in touch with them Dave Ash the cleaner Dave Ash is a good lad Dave so you know that's that's what it was like it just wasn't about the players it was about everybody at the club it was I don't think you could do that now now you know even the academy is separate from the first team you know it's like as if there's an enticement you've got to earn the stripes to go down that corridor to get to the first team changing rooms and then you're passing all them players that have actually done it how does the manager get to see you if you're that distanced away how does he get to know you you know at least you're in a stamp on the manager's brain if you're training on the same field as him or close by yeah very true so I mean that cup final we were winning control and Kevin Sheedy just after half time almost makes it 2-0 but there's right foot to shave the post and Gary Stevens must have must think a million times in his mind why didn't I just smash it down the line trying to bend it round Jan Mulby who was about 14 foot wide I don't think Gary could bend the ball anyway I think Gary always used to ping it I wish he would have done that time cos he tried a delicate one but within a second your mate had nicked in and it was it turned it just turned very quickly it turns just like that it's amazing how it just turns on in control of the game not just cup finals that's any game any game no matter the times I see it now going to games and you've controlled it and you've only got a cushion of one sometimes when there's a cushion of two and you can see that first goal and you can see there's going to be another goal and it's not going to be you that's going to be scoring it and they just took control from that they took control from that Mulby starting to come into his own Mulby I thought he was a very underestimated player great two-footed player the people I was used to criticising looking at the size of him he don't really move further than a 10 foot circle or whatever but what he did in that 10 foot was amazing he was a good passer of the ball great touch and control good player fantastic isn't it now on out I could see the pain on your face but then we we so linear and we bounce back didn't we the Dave Watson come in and we bounce back to as a fan you will see this differently as a player but as a fan I always felt the team in 86 we were a better team than we were in 87 but the squad was better in 87 because we won it with the squad didn't we as opposed to it was more of a team in 86 I think in the the first time we won it I think Howard didn't use I think he used 20 odd players 22 players something like that but I think a lot of them hadn't played enough games to get a medal he had to play 13 games so towards the end of the season he was picking players on the bench to make sure they had enough appearances to actually get a medal so that was a good thing about Howard yeah yeah he wanted it to be a team yeah and that's what he was good at he had his first team and the one thing that I think he did find a problem was replacing the players that were his first 11 yeah yeah but he kept bringing players in as back up just in case he was quite unreal really to bring players in as a squad player rather than the first team player if you know what I mean and that's what he was doing because I think he realised the 11 players that he wanted weak in weak out on the pitch if he could pick on the pick on every time you'd just be ready to play when need be and I think that's where Alan Harper played a great role he played some fantastic games but he left out but his attitude was just brilliant you know Kev Rich when he was there as well but mainly Alan was fantastic then I think we brought in Ian Ackins he was brilliant Ackers was brilliant and he was he was a good centre off but I think looking at me and him because it was usually me and him that played alongside each other that got injured and we were both very very small for centre off but he was very aggressive in the air was Ackers well in that I mean the 87 says it all you know obviously Wayne Clark was brought in wasn't he after Christmas by Howard from almost some nowhere and he come in and scored he brought him in with a he brought him in with a lad called Skewy Stora from Birmingham so he brought them both in for about a couple of 100 grand would it be so apparently the word goes is that for the 200 grand for the two of them and Skewy Stora say it was 240 grand Skewy Stora was 200 grand and Wayne Clark was 40 and the reason being was apparently wolves had a cell on close with Wayne Clark they only played the percentage on the 40k rather than the 200 and Skewy come in and I think he was unaware that he was just somebody that had been put into the and unfortunately he never made I think he made one appearance or something or come away with us somewhere but when that was a good business by Howard Wayne Clark one of the best finishes I've ever seen as a finisher headers, right foot, left foot he was a quality he got us over that line that year with some important goals with some important goals the winner of Arsenal yes, yes that shift over Luchard that's the type of player he was he could do things like that and Neville was said that he was the best finisher he played against as in training didn't know what he was going to do with the ball didn't know what he was going to do with the ball where he put it was he going to blast it was he going to dink it that's good coming from Neville if he's saying that but that was a very good sign for us he's a very a forgotten man isn't he he got a hatrach against Newcastle in another important game he beat them 3-0 at Godderson it was just the point we needed to keep that momentum going we win the league again it's amazing we go down to Norwich we won 1-0 and we've done it again the title again it was amazing and then obviously Howard left did that shock you or could you share a comment because of the European ban well there was rumours going about and you just you're just looking thinking oh this side is going to break up did he go before Gary and Trevor no, Gary went Gary went at the start of that season and then Howard went at the end because the story is Howard thought he was going to Barcelona so he signed linica on that pre-contract and then Barcelona kept Terry Venables that was the story I don't know if he's not here to say what's the name Gary went, did he win the league with us then the second one 87 linica went to them Gary Stevens Gary Stevens run he didn't go till Stevens ran 88 and Trevor Steven ran 89 did they so we lost 3 big players on the run and I think the club knew it because he went to the end of the contracts so I don't know what I don't even think we got anything for him can't remember not much, not much not what we should have got you lose that right hand side Gary was on me 27 Trevor would be about 26 coming into the prime Trevor Trevor going on to Marse and everything Howard going it was breaking up slowly Peter Reid coming in as a coach and then letting him go Stuart McCall coming in to replace him and really went on and played for about 4 or 5 years after that Man City, QPR, Southampton and it was still good enough to play for Everton we let players go because the players we were bringing in weren't as good as Reid when he was supposed to be finished it's just going to say the same thing so it was is that why you think it didn't work out for Colin because obviously Colin of being a great coach you've been key to the success as everyone says and then man management right okay he was a great coach but as man management I don't think his conversational skills are brilliant as in being a manager I mean off the field and everything he was great for me the best thing that ever happened for me but I think as in managerial talking to players maybe he wasn't the best I think the players that come in didn't really fit in with the rest of the players you know Pat Nevin, Neil McDonald Tony Consti Peter Bagery sorry and a few others and for some reason or other I don't know why but what would a team was built on team spirit that team spirit was soon sort of moving away them lads didn't seem to be part want to be part of that team spirit and maybe going for a pint after the games there's maybe another loads of things I look back and thinking why did it not work because these players coming in weren't bad but I won't believe this but there was a big change as in wages were just starting to creep up but these players were coming in from London and buying houses with a 200 grand mortgage and I'm going out 200 grand mortgage you know we were on I think we had 50 anything between 50 and 80,000 because we're paying 14% 14 to 15% we were getting taxed 60% so all their money was going on the houses so I actually think they had no money to go out on they wanted a drink obviously do it must have been something like that because team spirit wasn't the same wasn't the same there was a little bit of friction between the new players and my sort of players that I was with and I don't know why just didn't happen didn't happen it was mad wasn't it because we were such a good side and then within a couple of years Colin's seasons he finished fourth in his first season 8th in his second season and a cup final we lost another cup final to Liverpool it was obviously a very difficult one giving you a Hillsborough and everything else that must have been really difficult to be part of to playing because you want to win it but we were aware of the emotion around it and now once you cross the white line you want to win the game because you're all professionals in that and then obviously finished sixth in the last full season he had so top eight for the three years that he was in charge and then the next season you know it falls apart and how it's back yeah yeah it was I think Colin had been sacked hadn't he or left by Mutl could centre not too sure what it was and then you know the rumour is how it's coming back then it comes back we Colin wasn't it? wasn't it weird? yeah it was sad in the way that it was going you know you look back on it and you were you know how it comes back in and sort of revives us a little bit but you can see that it's not right you know and he turned to me he said I'll get this right within six months to a year I can't see it can't see it I just can't see it sorry but I can't see it you know they needed restructuring again you know can you do exactly what you've done before before and when you know that it's going to cost you a lot more money than what you did before yeah it was it was hard to take really especially you you started and we were all right and then we were amazing and then you see us on being in Everton you must have been so difficult to take and then what happened with you with leaving was it just the time to go well obviously I'd had that injury against you it took something like eight months to detect that it was a hernia whereas you should be playing within six weeks if you have it done and I come back and all of a sudden I'm feeling a lethargic I feel as if I've not got that little bit of burst that I had you know the extra gear or two and I've never gone home as much and slept you know the past back rule had changed so your fitness levels changed and I hadn't done a pre-season come back and I just kept picking up injury after injury injuries that I've never had before and I was finding it hard I must have been finding it hard so I was disappointed in the end in the way that it was dealt with but that's football that happens when people are coming into the football club to replace you you're no longer wanted and that's the hardest thing but I do think it could have been dealt with a lot better by Howard reading between the lines he does as well I did a few people have said that at time with what went on but the Howard's Ray film just actually this before I let you go the Howard's Ray film we're happy with how it finished we're happy with how Rob's put it together and glad that team has been putting film I think it doesn't matter you can have a blockbuster with things for me the biggest fault is there's people that were involved with us that weren't on it okay and I think they were a massive part one would be Mark Inns the other one would be Jimmy Martin who was the bus driver and the other one would be Dave Ash the cleaner and I think they could have been playing a part is how they were feeling at that time as an insight you're driving the bus for Everton Football Club he's now the kit man that's the only thing that I would say otherwise the way that it's put together with the music and everything bits from the lads I've only seen it once especially when you're in it yourself but I don't know how these actors actually watch themselves in a film but yeah it's coming I think it's everybody at the Tony seems to like it but if you're not an Evertonian would you like it I'm not sure but yeah I think he must be pleased with it he's had good reviews everybody watches it likes it I've even mentioned it to some lads COVID-19 if you want something to watch just watch it a little bit of history for you it might not be your team but have a look at it and see what you think just said it's well put together in different ways that me and Shane are in the Winslow and he's over there interviewing Gary Stevens in Australia that can't be right can it and how Sutton's gone on there mate and finally Kev for a let you go what do you make of the Carlo Ancelotti appointment by Everton think it's a good appointment it took a long time coming didn't it it took a long time we've been spending all this money on players we've not had a decent manager into managing we've not spent money on the manager now we've gone that way the big thing for me is that he's bought into the football club we've had managers in the past who haven't bought into the football club we've had temporary managers that haven't bought into the football club and what he's done with the players that Marco Silva had that Marco Silva couldn't and that doesn't say back for Carlo as well that's the same for Duncan what Duncan out the players in them three games four games wherever he was in charge same players same players and I'm thinking okay there's a basis now to work on maybe you don't need to get eight players in you only need to get five or four or whatever but it was looking drastically poor and I still think he needs I would say three or four players I'll get a decent keeper in to put this lad under pressure because I think that's the one thing that he's number one that's it and I think that he's got to be very very special and he's not that special just at the moment you know I think he's got everything in him to be a top keeper but he's just got to cut out these stupid mistakes get another centre half in get a decent midfield player in and maybe another striker definitely you think we've got a basis there on the left side you know that a manager would love to work with after seeing what they can do but the big thing for me is Carlos really bought into the football club and I think the fans are bought into it yeah hopefully good things are not too far away from winning something which would be great it would over to you isn't it long over to you listen Kevin thank you so much for giving up so much of your time today I'm only powerwashing I'm only powerwashing mate well that's all right listen you're the man who could say Jag Elke's name and we couldn't and everyone was saying why is he calling him Jag Elke and then we hear Jag Elke saying it so there you go I had his brother at Shrewsbury oh okay that makes sense then yeah but I couldn't fill in his name on the team sheets if I was a referee and you went to buck him and asked him his name and he'd say no not you you're the other one the lad Johns next to you fantastic fantastic listen Kev thanks so much mate stay safe all right cheers pal take it big thanks to Kevin Ratcliffe Evan's most successful ever captain for joining us absolutely brilliant Aaron all of those stories make sure you give this video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't and if you want to watch this video in its full entirety join us over on Peyton see you later