 All right, so why don't we call the meeting to order? And this is the South Carolina City Council meeting of Monday, April 5th, 2021. Our first item is welcome in the agenda review. So are there any additions, deletions, or changes in the order of items? I just wanna bring up under other business, an email that I got and get it on the next agenda. It's from the, what do they call it? The policing group. Aaron and Marshall Policing? Yeah, yes, Aaron and Marshall, and they would like us to support a resolution. So I just wanted to put that under new business. Megan? Yeah, since you're gonna add that, I guess it would be nice, I'm assuming that the chief will be in attendance. There is a resident who would like us to review possible ordinances or perhaps outreach to legislators with regard to difficulties with neighbors, where neighbors can create perhaps a threatening situation. And this occurred for a neighbor not living far from me. I was brought into a parallel justice commission about it and told her I would follow up with the council. And I know that Kevin is aware, I've been keeping him aware, but I think that having a discussion would be good. And since we have the chief coming to discuss the resolution you announced, I think it would be perhaps a good night for that discussion to be held. Why don't you remind us at the end of the meeting under new business and we can work on that. Okay, if there are no other changes, deletion seeing none. The next item is a possible executive session to discuss pending litigation to which the city is a party and receive some confidential attorney client communications regarding the same. So Tim, you have a motion or two? I'd like to move that the council make preliminary findings that premature general public knowledge of pending civil litigation, prosecution and confidential attorney client communications would clearly place the public body at a substantial disadvantage. Second. Okay, all in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Okay, do you have another? Yes, I now move that the council enter executive session for the reasons identified in the prior motion inviting in Kevin Dorn, Tom Hubbard, Collin McNeill, Andrew Bulldick and Amanda Lafferty. Second, even though I note that Kevin Dorn is not present. Right. Oh, is it all gonna be on instead of Kevin? Yes. Okay, yes. You want me to amend that motion at all or? Sure, well, sue that's amended. We're in favor of Kevin. Please identify Paul Connor. All right, all in favor, signify by saying aye. Or thumbs up. Aye. Yeah. Okay, so I would ask that town meeting TV and any public members please leave and we should be back on about seven in. So I'd like to call back into regular session the self-oriented city council meeting. It's Monday, April 5th, 2021. And our next item is comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda. So I know Rosanne has requested that. I don't know if there's anyone else, but why don't you speak Rosanne and we'll find out if anyone else has comments. Okay, thank you. I'm gonna take my cue from Abby and read this and it takes about four and a half minutes. So thank you for the opportunity. You all know me as Rosanne Greco. But this evening you can think of me as the Greta Thunberg of South Burlington. For those of you who do not know, Greta Thunberg is the Swedish girl who about three years ago when she was 15 years old sat in front of the Swedish parliament building demanding that her government take action on climate change. When she addressed the United Nations in 2018, she said, I quote, I don't want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to the scientist, end quote. I sincerely hope that all of you have already done that, meaning read the scientific evidence on climate change. If not, let me know. I'll happily send you some of the recent reports. I'm here to get your attention and urge you to take immediate concrete and bold action in South Burlington to address the two major and intertwined climate change problems using fossil fuels and destroying nature. I assume some of you respond to environmental issues and others to economic concerns. Fortunately for my argument, but unfortunately for the planet, the implications of the climate crisis have both an environmental and an economic impact. But I want to mention the economics tonight. A recent study, the largest ever of its kind on the economic value of protecting nature with that of exploiting it, calculated the monetary worth of ecosystem services, such as carbon storage and flood protection, as well as likely dividends from converting land for human use. They reported, I quote, the major economic benefit of natural habitats come from their regulation of the greenhouse gases driving climate change. Including the sequestration of carbon, end quote. They concluded, quote, the economic benefits of conserving or restoring natural sites now outweigh the profit potential of converting them for intensive human use, end quote. The January, 2021 federal executive order number 14008 tackling the climate crisis at home and abroad directed the United States to conserve 30% of our lands and water by the year 2030. Vermont environmental experts say that only 5% of New England lands are now protected. In Vermont, there are 36 animals on the endangered list, 16 animals on the threatened list, and Vermont is losing 1500 acres of significant wildlife habitat every year. Every category of conservation is essential and help make our communities healthier and stronger. We need all of it to help us cope with the climate change impact. In conclusion, South Burlington needs to take immediate bold actions before we lose any more of nature and or allow or engage in any more fossil fuel using interfaces or activities. You'll soon have an opportunity to add strong environmental measures in our LDRs, but there are many more actions you can take for example, you can decide to abide by the federal executive order and permanently conserve 30% of South Burlington's open lands. You can require all new structures to be net zero. You can stop new road construction and increase more and safer bike and pedestrian pathways. You can regulate and allocate sewer usage to stop development in natural areas. You can purchase high value natural resource lands. You can develop partnerships with large landowners to preserve their land in a mutually beneficial way. You can require all new housing units to be located only on transportation lines. You can incentivize the renovation of empty commercial buildings for affordable housing units and more. Take one, some or all of these actions, just do something we are running out of time. History shows us that when ambitious goals and forceful policy mechanisms are aligned, it is possible to change virtually all aspects of society on an extremely tight deadline. But as Greta says, quote, we cannot solve an emergency without treating it like an emergency. Act like your house is on fire because it is end quote. Thank you for listening. I'll be back hopefully very soon when you put climate change actions on your agenda. And I'll send you a copy of this. Thank you. Thank you, Rosanne. Are there any other members of the public who wish to speak to any issue that's not on the agenda? Okay, seeing none. We'll move on to announcements in the city manager's report. So any announcements? Tim, no. Megan, Matt, Tom. There is interest among the sections of which I still am one, the cemetery section, to clean up the Shelburne Road Cemetery with volunteer power. So I will follow up unless the council raises concerns. I'm gonna ask the South Burlington Rotary, maybe the South Burlington Boy Scouts for a Saturday or Sunday in late April or May, not to conflict with Green Up Day and see if we can get some pre-labor hours to just clean up the fence line of the cemetery. Great, okay. We'll put Tom on that. Alrighty, thank you. I have, I forgot to put down the date of this. And I think a number of you also listened in. The Greater Green Communities, it was a what, an hour and a half presentation. And I thought it was really interesting and you still, you can view, you can listen to it, but it shared, it was a woman's life's work, I guess, and she's written a book. I think I'm gonna try to get the book, Greater Green Communities addressing affordable housing and sustainability. I think there probably were five or six people from South Burlington who listened in, but I felt that she kind of thought, thinks of it as a way of thinking. And gray housing is sort of obsolete housing and it's a financial burden and it generates pollution. 40% of the housing we have now embody the use of carbons to heat it, heat them and contribute to 40% of the carbon present in our society. And then green housing is affordable for all. It's resilient housing has some challenges for sure. And there's examples in Portland, but I just thought she had a lot of good information and data about affordable housing that you build and promote that really is more green. So I thought that was a really good meeting. I also was asked to join the CCRPC, pulled together a municipal collaborative meeting. So Kevin and I were there and so it's Jessie Baker, she was sort of representing or listening in or commenting for Winooski, but she certainly has South Burlington in mind. And it was a different either city counselors or select board members from a number of the communities in Shetland County. And they were talking about and continuing the conversation about areas for cooperation. And it was somewhat a brainstorm, but it also was really trying to focus on so what should we really work on? But the list was really kind of long and interesting. And I probably should just type it up and share it with you rather than read through all the different, excuse me, concepts of how as individual communities in Shetland County, we could really strive for more efficiency and more cost savings and maybe enhancing all of our communities by coming together and working on issues together. Certainly the dispatch was one that we've been very active in and that's kind of moving forward. Oh, and the medical center was there as well. So it was a really interesting and enlightening meeting and I was impressed with how interested the many communities in Shetland County were about really actively working together on a number of projects, whether they're environmental, wastewater, bike and ped paths, community justice centers. It was a real gamut of ideas and obviously not all of them can be embarked upon at the same time, but it was good to know that those conversations are continuing and CCRPC is really helping promote them. So that's what I was busy with this week. Do we have a manager's report, Tom? Are you? Just a couple of things. Yes, I wanna thank you for your attendance at that and your input, which was very valuable. I was encouraged with the amount of interest from the different towns in doing more. And like Helen said, really a matter of exploring what in the short term and what in the longer term might make the most sense. So look forward to some of those continued meetings as we address those topics in a little more depth. We're working with both the land trust and the rotary with the green update. There'll be information going out on that. I don't know if it went onto a front porch forum today or it might go tomorrow, but we're hitting all the social media with that. We've already got the bags and making those available to people. We'll continue working with that effort for May 1st. It's as early as it can get this year on a Saturday. We hope there'll be a nice day and have some good efforts around the community. And just a reminder that Kevin is on vacation this week. He'll be back next Monday. So if you need anything, please reach out to me. Great, okay. Thanks, Helen. Thank you. Item five, the Consent Agenda. We have four items on it. The Consider and Sign the Dispersements, approve minutes from February 1st, February 16th, March 10th and March 15th meetings. Consider and possibly approve the State of Vermont Town Highway Class II Paving Grant. And the last one, approve refunding, the refunding resolution and certificate for the pension loan. Are there any questions? I'll move to approve. Second? Okay. And let me just call the roll, Matt. I'm sorry. Is there any discussion? Any questions? Okay, Matt. Could Sue note that I abstained from the minutes on February 21st and where I wasn't here. February 21st. February 16th, okay. Yes. Okay. So I am all but abstaining on February 1st and February 16th. Okay, thank you, Tim. Thank you, Tim Barrett. Hi, yes. Oh, yes, hi. I didn't know you were at the time. I'm just looking for this comment, right? Oh, Tom, did you have a comment? I'm sorry, pardon me. Oh, good. The quick comment is, Sue, you can just call me Tom or Mr. Chittenden in the minutes. I saw you were going back and forth between Senator Chittenden and I'm just Tom, Sue. So you don't need to do the Senator thing. I know that, but I was under order. Fair enough, okay, so I vote yes. Okay, Megan, I said everyone in the chair votes aye. So we've approved the consent agenda with two abstentions on the minutes unanimously. Okay, item six, consider and possibly approve appointment of the city assessor. So Tom, are you gonna? Yes, so as Council is aware, Todd LeBlanc has submitted his retirement notice to us earlier than anticipated. It was gonna be the end of June and effective today. He has retired from the city. So we are recommending Martha Lyons for that position to you all in a combined role, which was gonna take effect July 1st, but to take effect now with Martha heading out both the tax collection and the assessment duties for the city. We've contracted with Nimrick Services, our financial software company. They do assessment for a number of communities. Martha's already been working with them and will continue to work with them to help her with some of the onsite inspections. And she's working really well with Tyler Technologies, with Blaine and his crew, as we continue through the reappraisal process. And I know that Martha is on the call. If there's any questions for her, she's attended for tonight. And we appreciate her willingness and interest in stepping out. I'm sorry. You were frozen on my screen for a moment. That's just, it's okay now. Yeah, it's my connection. I'm sorry. It's okay. I was just gonna say appreciate Martha's interest and willingness to step up. She's doing a great job and we hope you'll consider our recommendation. Right. It's a lot of work, Martha. I'm glad you're willing to take it on. I hope it doesn't destroy any vacation time you had been thinking about because it doesn't sound like you're gonna have much time, but... No, I didn't have any plans for vacation any time soon. So that's okay. Well, that's good. Okay. Well, welcome to the job. Thank you, Megan. Did you have a comment? I had a question, but yeah, thank you, Martha. I'm glad that we have someone that we can really put our trust in for this big lift. Are you getting any help? Yes. I am. There's some internal and then as Tom mentioned, with NEMRIC. So any questions that I have, I just give them a call and maybe make a little bit of fun of me, but then they give me the answer and then I'm off and running again. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Oh, good. So I would entertain a motion to approve the appointment of Martha Lyons as our city assessor slash tax commissioner. I mean, is that a new title or are we just dealing with the tax assessor? Yeah, I think we can officially make a motion to appoint her as the assessor. She's already appointed as the tax collector. Okay. Her new title is gonna be director of tax collection and assessment. I move to approve her to be the assessor, the city's new assessor, Martha Lyons. And a second? Second. And Tom seconds. Any other comments? All right. All in favor, thumbs up for Martha. Woohoo. I think Tom, I think Tim may have had a question. It wasn't a question. I just wanted to express my gratitude probably along with the council too for taking on this extra responsibility at short notice. That's a heavy burden to take on and we really appreciate it. Well, thank you. If I could just put a plug in, I think Martha's the one who taught me about it and in any case she's the one who made it happen. Our taxes are deducted automatically from our bank account. And I assume Martha that that saves you some clerical work on your end Yes, right now we currently have, I think it's 11 to 1200 people that are signed up with our automatic withdrawal program. And it works like a charm. There's never been an error and I just don't have to worry about the date. And if it lightens the load and on the staff's end, I think it's good for everybody. So I just wanted to speak about it publicly. I plugged that whenever I can to people when they didn't send the check on the exact date I go, why are you bothering with the check? If you can manage it, make it an automatic financial transit, AFT or whatever you call it, right? Just let the city reach in and get it because they do it on that exact day. You don't have to worry about it anymore. Right. You just have to have funds in the account. That's all you have to worry about. So there's a little worry, but. There's a little worry. Okay. So are we ready for this vote? Okay. On favor, put your thumb up for Martha as city assessor. Great. Thank you very much. And is jokingly as we're saying this, we do really appreciate all that you do. And this is a heavy lip. So let us know if more help is needed. Okay. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Next up is the top dog and first feline drawing. So Donna, you're going to do it. Actually going to be legitimate. You're going to draw it. And I know I try to find some way, try to get my granddaughter over here, somebody or something, but just a workout. So we're going to have to go with, go with this. Just a little recap. We all know last year was a little. Last year, we know with COVID, everything hits and the fees changing. I'm not sure if it's been a time. It's a, it was a challenging year last year. I will say that South Burlington residents have stepped up and we, we beat last year, which we showed up because it was a little bit of an off year. But we beat 2019 by 20 pets, which we had been catching. We've been on this increase every year than 2020 hit. And now we're back up to where we were prior to it. So it's good to see if people are registering their pets and it's always good to see. So I guess we'll add a further fan juice. I've got the cats in here. And I mean, I don't know if you can see all the tags in the bottom. Good bye. Have someone else here. Checking them up good. Tom, if you win, someone's going to file a complaint. $267 for a cat. Are those all licensed? Could you please check the chin and the name in the? Oh, I can't do that because I can't get to my computer. This is our year. Now we know why you want a zoo, Tom. I thought it was a poll. Valerie Hennessy won for Mr. Finnegan, who's just a domestic short hair cat. So congratulations to Valerie. I'll be contacting her. I'm still trying to gather some of the prizes together. It's with COVID and stuff is getting kind of hard to get in touch with people to get their donations kind of done. But we've got a good start. I mean, we've got a good, good. Again, a bunch of shows, show you a bunch of them in here. Come on, the only one. Whoops, I keep going backwards, $11.50. And that belongs to, sorry, Tom. Stephanie Pasquale. Pasquale, just I can't read this. The stuff, DiStofano, D-I-S-T-E-F-A-N-O. We knew that person. We, hasn't that person been on the city committee? Am I the only one who recognizes that name? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, oh, very cool, very cool. Yeah, as a Cavalier King, something Spanish, something, some abbreviation. So congratulations to those two winners and I'll be reaching out to them to get them their prizes and get their things, the pictures taken and all that kind of stuff and get our publicity done. There is one other little thing I have to kind of just talk about tonight. As part of the governor's Act 92 last March, when everything was chaos and people weren't sure what was going on, he did this 8B where that licenses don't expire. We were given that impression last year by the state that that meant USC council could or could not charge a late fees. And that's how we were instructed. That's what this thing, but everything was so fluid back then, it was changing daily. It came to our attention as clerks that this, we have a new interpretation of this ruling which basically says that until the governor stops the executive, the state of emergency, I forgot the exact terminology, that 90 days from that is when we can now start charging our late fees again. And that is the advice of our city attorney, I ran it by Amanda. I don't know why the dog and cat licenses would be subject to this because we're charging for the liquor licenses, they didn't expire. All these other things that we issue, nothing's expiring except we got this opinion about dogs. So I reached out to the governor's office and having her back asking for some clarification on this. But so for right now, we are registering our dogs and cats. And at this point, we can't charge late fees, which unfortunately Tom means little hit on our budget, but not a lot. We are going to still aggressively go out and try and get, we still have about 300 cats and dogs that didn't register this year that were registered last year. So we need to kind of start tracking them down. So just kind of give the heads up and try to get some clarification on that. But as of right now, we can't charge late fees or pets at this time. I would think we would have lots more pets registered cause everyone and their mother got a COVID puppy. I mean, it was unbelievable. We had over 200 new pets this year. So we did. So once we get those other ones that haven't registered, once we get them going, we'll be definitely very good. So we'll be short and maybe in the end of our expenses of our late fee revenue, but our registration should be up. So hopefully we'll correspond. All right. So thank you for letting me do this. I always enjoy doing this and it's such a fun and it's amazing people do talk about this as they come in and put the pictures on the wall and as Tom shows, they want to win. We need this, Donna. Thank you. You bring lightness and joy to. Very happy times. So thank you. You're welcome. We need our pets and we need them to be safe for everyone to do this. Yeah, okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. And let's see, moving on to item eight, is this discussion possibly a point and new representative to the Green Mountain Transit Board of Directors? So we don't have anyone serving on that. It was Charlie Baker and he moved to Burlington. Do you believe it? After we treated him so well in South Burlington, man alive. Anyway, so he's gone. The taxes there are terrible. Why would he move to Burlington? I don't know. He's downsizing. He could find the, oh, sorry, Tom, but yeah, he found a nice condo that he couldn't find in South Burlington. So that's just, we're to the wise here. Point of clarification. Tell me if you have more information than me, but the email I saw said that he's willing to continue to serve as the South Burlington rep living in Burlington. I'm not advocating for that, but just as a former Green Mountain Transit rep, we did have that. We had a South Burlington representative, a South Burlington resident representing Franklin County. So, and her last name escapes me right now, but she lived in South Burlington, but she worked with their CCRPC. So since she had the expertise and she could reflect Franklin County at a point in her, she was the alternate for another county, but a resident of South Burlington. My point is there's precedent. So if we don't want to be right away, Charlie can serve, but I'm happy to tell anybody that's interested about what this entails and what their composition is. It's a great organization. It's a great board. So I'm happy to tell anybody they want about GMT. Well, I think I would reach out to the council and see if there's anyone on the council who would be interested in willing, because I think that's a more direct way to get reports and have influence versus trying to remember to ask Charlie to call in and make a report every once in a while. Megan? I will just say that Charlie did respond to my email of some, some time ago, saying that he would get into that habit of emailing me. So like you said, he just moved, I'm sure, and he also had the flu for Guy. So it was, yeah, a little bit, yeah, just backlogged a little bit, but he is very much on board with just feeding me those updates. And I'm very interested in serving. It's just a Tuesday morning time. I teach very often on Tuesday mornings. It just didn't work with my schedule. It was, I felt that I couldn't do it very well. Well, if anyone else interested, Matt, you're not on anything for the city other than the council at this point. I know you do lots of other things, but. Yeah, so what's the time commitment? What's the time commitment? Ask Tom. So that was one of the best things about it for me is that of the boards that Matt, this is the only one that's on early morning board. So it's the third Tuesday of every month at 7.30 a.m. And the board meetings, at least when I was chair and with the previous chairs, they were pretty punctual. So we wrapped up by nine. Sometimes we went to 10 a.m. But everybody on that board, great people, all really well connected across five different counties. And they all were working individuals. Austin Davis serves representing Winooski. I think he's the vice chair right now. You know Austin and great, great group, a really good, important organization. The city of South Burlington writes a check for half a million bucks a year degree not in transit. So I echo a chair really Helen's comments that it's really useful to have a counselor on that important municipal entity. I'm happy to do it if you'll help me. Okay, is that, I think that's reasonable. Maybe Charlie could be the alternate. I think he really wants to continue to serve or is willing to. But I think half a million bucks is enough to want to have some, okay, great. So I guess we need to have a motion to appoint Matt Coda to be our representative to the Green Mountain Transit Board of Directors. Now moved. Okay, moved by Megan. A second? Second. Second, any further discussion? I mean, do you really think he's getting, okay, all in favor, put a thumbs up. Okay. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that. And we do have a lot of, you know, but just talk to Kevin for a little bit and he has some good ideas about how to make it work better in South Burlington, I think. Okay, item nine review and possibly approve agreement with the local firefighters union. So Andrew. Good evening, counselors. After some back and forth, we have reached a tentative agreement with the South Burlington Firefighters Association. This is a one year extension contract with the identical terms to what we've reached with Public Works City Hall folks. That is a 1.1% COLA. This is a number fixed based on the CPIU for the New England region from August to August, the preceding year. If you approve of that, this would be the last of the three contracts and each will have a one year extension with almost identical terms. All right, any questions? I'll move to approve and thank you so much and thank our firefighters and all of our employees. I know that they were needing to bite the bullet along with all of us, so thank them. Okay, do I have a second? Okay, Matt, second. All right, any further discussion? No, okay. I'll have a roll call. So Matt Kota. Hi. Tim Barrett. Hi. Thomas Chinden. Hi. Megan Emory. And the chair votes aye. So we approve the contract five zero. Thank you very much, Andrew. I know that's a long, hard job. Good job. Thank you, Ed. I will just also comment, kind of piggybacking off Megan's, the firefighter association absolutely a pleasure to work with this time. Good. Thank you. Okay. Item 10, council discussion and possible action related to the future of the dog park committee. I know we all have gotten quite a few rather long emails about the dog park. Kevin was concerned about having enough staff to really staff the dog park committee and felt that we could do without and quite a few members of the public. I mean, I think they wrote to everyone. Did you all get the same numbers of emails? Yeah, who were very, very concerned about that. And so this is up for discussion. If we wish to continue the dog park committee, their chair, Larry Kufferman, has resigned. So he's no longer interested in being the chair, but he is agreeing that it probably makes sense to have the committee continue. He just felt he joined to really get the dog park completed and when that was done, he wanted to move on to other interests. So what is the census or consensus? Matt? Helen, was the idea that to keep, I'm sure there's someone here that could correct me. Maybe Holly, I see Holly's on the call. Was the idea to keep it going until the dog wheeler park opens or to keep it in perpetuity? What is the sense that you're hearing? Well, I heard mostly, excuse me, that people feel that we should have some kind of dog park, a dog park committee, that it's a big issue. There are possibly work that could be done and working with developers to make sure that there are new dog parks that are included in developments. And I think actually the O'Brien development came in before the in front of the DRB to create one, I think. I know Eric Farrell built one for one of his big high rises near Shaw's. I think that's a concept and I've raised it with a number of developers, asking, are you planning to build a dog park? And if not, are you not allowing dogs in your buildings? Because they got to go somewhere and they're leaving a lot of poop around the streets and that's a real environmental issue. So I heard from a number of people that they thought we needed to have something going forward that we just because we have one dog, well, we have two dog parks or we'll have two dog parks that more is needed. And from my experience walking all through the COVID summer fall and winter, there are more dogs out there, little puppies who are now big dogs than I'd ever seen before. So there are a lot of dogs and they all need to use some facilities and we need to address that issue for the community. So I think we need something and we'll just have to figure out and Holly's on maybe we can ask her about, you know, I mean, the affordable housing committee met throughout COVID without any oversight from city management and no one seemed to complain about that. Megan, do you have a comment? Yeah, I just wanted to say, yeah, I spoke with Betty Melitia and she showed me pictures of, she sent pictures to me too. I don't know if you can see, I don't know where my camera is, but the space under the gates on the Swift Street, is that right? Yeah. The Feral Park that it really needs some attention as well as some drainage. Here's another picture of wet dog park. And she just felt that it was important for there to be a dedicated committee. Now, once the wheeler park is completed, she felt comfortable with saying, was seeing that it could become a standing committee or kind of subcommittee within recreation parks. But I wanna give her a fair air time because she spent years and I know I see her, she's here now, I didn't, sorry, I didn't see you before, she spent years and not only years, but hours of research on creating, and I'm looking to see who else is here, there's Barb, I'm creating a matrix. And I just, I find that given all of their investment in the process up to now, that letting them go through to the very end where all of their hard work comes into fruition, I can see why we should let that happen. We depend on volunteers to do a lot of things in our city. You know how much we depend on our volunteers. And so let's make sure that they feel appreciated, that they feel that their work can really come through with them feeling that the gratification that they saw it through. And so I just wanted to put that forward, that they deserve to see this happen in their position on the committee. Betty, do we wanna hear from Holly first? She or from Betty? Holly, what do you wanna do? Betty, why don't you get your mic on? Go ahead, Betty, you have your mic on. Well, I think there's a lot of different ideas going through my mind, but I really do think there needs to be a dedicated committee, specifically addressing dog issues throughout the city, whether it's one little dog park, whether it's helping with some guidelines for developers around when they put one in their development, we're gonna have a small dog park up here. When we were given the charge to find a space for dog park, we were basically told go out and find a space in the city on one of the properties, and this is what some of us wanted to see a 10 acre dog park, and we're working on this one. And to that end, we have, I was looking through all of our written materials that we've produced, and our charge up here was not just to say, go put a dog park in, just and put up a fence. There's a list of tasks, including the committee seeing an actual design, not just a piece, a map or a Google Earth thing with a line around where the park would be, but actually a design with some, from whoever's going to be putting it in. It's not gonna be public works, it's gonna be, they're gonna be bringing somebody in to put it in. So the committee wanted to see what was actually going to be put in up there. So as far as just trying to get wheeler kind of finished up, we just feel, we haven't seen it. We haven't seen anything up there. There's little orange flags up there where the wetlands are, but there's a whole list of things, like there's supposed to be water being put in. So we have all these questions of what the timeframe will be and what kind of has anybody looked into what it's gonna take to put water over there, because that's in our phase one plan. That was part of phase one, was to put in water access for dogs. There's a number of things that are in the phase one piece. So anyway, I think personally other people can speak. I think other committee members probably feel the same way that our committee should be able to finish what we had in our plans and then to move on from there and looking at broader, as is in the city, the council's resolution was to have a broader perspective, not just one dog park, we are supposed to actually have a broader perspective of dogs in the city, in natural areas and everything. It's kind of ironic because all of that does fall in the resolution that you guys passed. But anyway, we have a lot to do to finish up wheeler and I don't think the committee should be dissolved before we at least have wheeler, but I think there's a lot of other things to do. And the thing about developers working with them, that whole idea of putting dog parks in the developments kind of came up after the resolution creating the dog park committee. So I mean, we can talk about that. I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but there's I think a real purpose and value to having the dog park committee help work on some language that could go into a PUD around placing dog parks in developments. So anyway, Barb, you're there. Holly's there, I'm gonna be quiet now. I think maybe Holly might be able to answer some of the questions because I know there's some timelines that have been developed. What is your thinking? I know you don't have a huge staff and you've lots to do as well. Right. So thanks Helen, point of clarity. I know it's shocking to everybody, but I'm not the staff liaison for the dog park committee. I haven't ever been. Justin Rabadou currently is the staff liaison and obviously prior to that, Maggie Lukers was the contracted consultant for that. But having said that, because we're the recreation parks department, it's everyone's natural inclination to give us a call when something is of concern. So I have a lot of interface with the public around dog issues. One thing I would state just for clarity is we did that as a staff, the concept of beyond dog parks, this concept of a positive dog community, a welcoming dog community in South Burlington and dog recreation in general. We did vet this concept in October with the dog park committee, the recreation and parks committee and also the natural resources committee. And at that point, there was strong discussion and advocacy for not doing that work in the dog park committee because there was such a focus to make sure Wheeler got in, make sure the improvements to Farrell got done and no one wanted to be deterred from that work. So there was a case made and then followed through by all three of those committees that we would do that work in a task force. So we got membership from those committees. We had an initial meeting in February and then in January and then in February, the issue kind of came to light of, hey, we actually could do this work in the dog park committee. So I guess what I would say is there is not staff capacity to have an ongoing dog park committee, a dog recreation task force and be the supportive liaison to this friends group, which is really excited about doing some programming in the parks. So I think we need to somehow decide where this work is gonna happen and then just put some parameters around it. My feeling is as the recreation and parks director, my hands are gonna be in it one way or another. It would just be good to know exactly where that line is. So it's certainly work that needs to get done. Currently our staff is three. Obviously we're gonna be hiring for a senior center person and then backfill for Ben's position once that's filled. But we do have a lot going on. We've got opening a senior center. We've got moving to a new building. We've got hopefully a whole summer of activities and so good night out and such to plan. So we're pretty strapped, but the work does need to continue just how that happens is up to you folks. Okay, thank you. Barb service, did you wanna? Yeah, I'd like to jump in if that's okay. I remember all too well. June 3rd, 2019 was the last night I was the chair of the committee and right before I left for a summer in Alaska and we had a very exciting conversation that night and we were all really pleased with the work that had been done and optimistic about the future. We are now two years, almost two years later and we still don't have a dog park. And I realized that COVID has created chaos for everyone. But I still get the sense that and right now I am far away. So I can only observe from sitting and watching meetings and listening to conversations, but the dog park has kind of been lost. I believe there is a sign at the dog park that says new dog wheeler that says new dog park coming summer 2020. And at this point, I don't think the committee has even seen a design. Has a designer been hired? I don't know that for a fact, but certainly sitting in on some of the meetings. And so we need to do that and the work needs to be contracted out. And we need more than a fence because there are issues around wetlands and that sort of thing. I'd like to follow up on something Megan said. The clear recommendation here is that this group works in the department of recreation and parks, but it is not part of the recreation and parks committee. That it really needs to be a separate entity. And we addressed this for three years ago and all came to the conclusion that that was probably right, that the rec and park committee has a ton of stuff, just like Holly has a ton of work, but that it needed to be a separate group and hopefully a standing group. I think that if we can ever get the park open, that the friends of the dog park will be ready to do some things to compliment, supplement, help Holly and not make more work for her, but in fact to be able to offer some activities at the park that don't demand a lot of staff time other than getting something in the newsletter. There were some things at Ferrell that were done early on that the staff did, but the sort of pre friends of the dog park group helped out with that. So I think that can grow. If I had a request, I would ask that a timeline be established, that the committee begin to meet regularly again and really lay out what are reasonable expectations? It is still COVID. So there are lots of things and it is spring and it is about to be mud season and all of those other things, but we have a reasonable timeline for completion of the dog park even as that we are looking at the excitement of opening city center and the new library and all of these things that are happening. So what's a reasonable expectation rather than it's going to happen out there somewhere? So my, but also my request would be that the committee needs to continue at least through three to six months after the opening of the dog park. We did a lot of work about guidelines for rules and regulations at the dog park. There are still conversations that need to be had about how are we going to monitor the dog park? Those sorts of things need to happen and I don't think that can happen until we get closer and we really know when it's going to open and then as it opens issues emerge. And I would hope that the committee like affordable housing could meet without Holly but with Holly at least getting the minutes and knowing that as we're in the construction phase if you will, when we get to implementation she knows that the committee and the friends are ready to move with that and move with her to make all of that happen. So my strong recommendation is that you continue and you ask people to continue their service on the committee. Sorry I went on so long. That's okay. Megan? Yeah and I think that what Barb has to say is really valid and I just wanted to say that there is an entity in the city that has a separate structure from city staff and that is the library board. And I find that to perhaps be a model for how this committee could develop. Now I don't want to enter into that discussion tonight because I think that's maybe an extended discussion but I just wanted to put it out there that there is a standing committee, there's a subcommittee of recreation and parks and there is a dog park board just like the library board that is independent, that has dedicated people. I mean, just I know from attending dog park meetings over years that the two people who have spoken here have given just like full-time effort to this project. And I want us to remember that when we had initially installed a small dog park in my neighborhood here on Patch and Road, I know that's a sore spot but there was a mortality. There was a dog who was mauled and killed in that dog park and this dog belongs also to a volunteer. So let's just remember that rules are important, enforcement is important, respecting that community and what's needed there, the attention, the needed attention, it should not just be an afterthought, it should not just be something where I get pictures with muddy fields and gates where these little pugs that Tom has on his lap are gonna run out or children are gonna run in. We have to be really, really mindful that these are animals and we have to have rules and people who are just just like anything, we have to have people who are very mindful when we have human lives, animal lives and the encounter of humans and animals in a space. Okay, seems like, well, any other comments or thoughts from Betty? Did you wanna speak again? Okay. Yeah, I just wanna just, I mean, I would like to see our committee continue for a while as Barb described. I don't necessarily think you have to have a specific dog park committee forever because we won't have, except for possibly in private development, there won't be a place to have dog parks. So it's a matter of working with, I think, working with someone, whether it's the DRB or planning and zoning or whoever to come up with some guidelines for developers. But we don't have, the reality is, we'll get a dog park in and hopefully we'll all be using it with our dogs in the next six months. And then I think we will be moving on to dogs in dog life in South Burlington. And so my wish would be that there be some dog, ongoing dog committee, whether it's dog park, dog recreation or whatever, something ongoing because dogs are such an issue in this community right now. So I don't think sunsetting our committee and then having a task force, which would also sunset. And then just assuming Holly will be able to absorb any future and maintenance of dog, whatever. So I would just like to request that the committee continue for a while, that we don't necessarily need staff at every meeting, they probably, the committee could meet. And then if Holly or Holly and Justin or whoever it was that we had a question for or we wanted to work with about some particular aspect of what we're doing, then maybe they would be, it would be the council, the management or the staff would be receptive to working as needed with the committee, working on something as needed, but not necessarily having to do something all the time. I think the committee could work independently as long as there was an acknowledgement that when we go to the department or something. Tom, Howard, how much money do we have? I mean, we had $25,000 or something in one budget for the dog park. Is it still set aside for that? It is, it's in the recreation impact fee. So it's not in the general fund. Okay. And Helen, I'm happy to work with Holly and Justin internally to come up with what might be a good model here. I just wanna say, I can't say enough about the efforts from Betty, from Barb, from Muriel. I mean, you got three of the greatest volunteers in the city of South Burlington right here. I truly value what they've all said. I've seen their letters very well written and very well explained. And they touch on a lot of important points. And I think we do need to look at this and come up with a model that we really can utilize moving forward that doesn't weigh the staff down in an overbearing way, but keeps them engaged when appropriate. And I think we can do that. I will also touch base with Justin to find out where we're at with the water to the park, where the design currently is and to make sure that the members of the committee are engaged in that process as we move forward. I'm hopeful that with the weather turning now the way that it has, we'll start to see more things happening up at Wheeler so that we can get that going. But I wanna thank Betty and Muriel and Barb who chaired the committee for a number of years and Betty has already expressed interest in carrying on the Friends of the Dog Park. They've all played vital roles in really getting us to where we've been. And I appreciate the value of what they've done and to be able to take it moving forward in a way that's meaningful to the community and keeps everybody engaged, that needs to be engaged at an appropriate staff involvement. And I know that was Kevin's main concern was the amount of staff. So I think we just need to look at a model that's gonna work and I'm confident we can come up with one and come back and make a recommendation to you on that. Are there some additional members that are needed on the committee? Just because we're going to be in the process of getting applicants for different committees. And so I don't know who's on the, I know Larry resigned, but Barb, you wanted to say something, or Muriel, I mean, you've had your light up on. Did you wanna say something? Not at the moment, other than just to remind the committee that Larry had in fact resigned and so we do have at least a vacancy there. Okay, Barb, service? Yeah, I was just gonna mention that, I really like this two things. I really like this concept of dog recreation, which is really what the park is about, but it also encompasses the larger issues around dogs and the increased number of dogs and the diversity of the challenges that faces. But the other thing is nothing related to dogs is on the list of committees for which members are being solicited at this point. Right, so I think Tom sounds like he's gonna try to pull together with Justin and Holly a concept and then we'll advertise for some additional people or maybe it's just a person. I don't know, I can't remember how many are on the committee and how many more are needed, but that we can find out and so we can advertise for that. Okay, any other comments or questions from the council? Is that, oh, Tom? Yeah. I just wanna echo and reinforce what I think I heard Tom Hubbard say is really put Holly Reece in the driver's seat on trying to align, organize, and coordinate these different dog functions and aspects. I love dogs in South Burlington can definitely do more to have dog services, but I'm sensitive to the time constraints. So I just hope that the staff as well as Holly feels like she can take the helm on trying to line up when these organizations, these different groups are meeting and how we're gonna go forward in those structures. But I don't know if that helps at all in this discussion, but Holly, I'm definitely sensitive to you having three different dog focused committees and I really hope you feel like you can put these in square way or aligning them up a little bit more efficient. Okay, does that sound amenable to everyone? All right, if there's no further comment, we'll move on to, ooh, we're almost at the end. Reports from counselors on committee assignments. Any committees meet? The airport did not meet, but Megan, you had a question when I mentioned last time about the noise monitoring. They will monitor commercial and military jets. You can't, it's too hard to differentiate. You pull in the sound and then, and it identifies which plane is making what noise. So it will include all of it. Okay, thank you for confirming it. And I suppose I should have reported that I did attend the virtual town meeting that the adjutant general night held and learned that they're doing some noise testing this fall or winter. Actual noise measurements of the F-35. So I just wanted to announce that. I thought that was important. Let me see if there are other things too. I'm just remembering, as you mentioned. Where are they doing that noise testing? I was facing a screen and submitting questions through a Google form and none of my questions got asked. So that's a good question. And maybe we could follow up with that question. Let me see, what did I write for notes? Oh, they did say that they had never used afterburners. So I just wanted to let the public know that. And then the others really had to do, you know, just kind of the notes that I took had to do with people who go overseas and talked about burn pits as well as the army guard member who we may have all seen in the press that unfortunately has been arrested for assault. So that was probably the impetus for the virtual town meeting. Okay, thank you. Anyone else? All right, so Tim has his hands waving in the air. I'm sorry. Excuse me, I was looking down. Yes. Do a cartwheel. We'll continue to get noticed around here anyway. No, I just, the pension advisory committee is gonna meet, I think it's in two weeks with the backdrop of all of the news that you've been hearing about the controversy with the teacher's retirement system and the state of their pension fund and the concern that the unretired teachers have about the status of what their pension will or won't be. It's an interesting backdrop right now. And so we'll have a, you know, I'll have a report after that meeting, but I just, I find it very interesting that the timing of the protests that are going on and as it relates to the current stock market and the teacher's fund versus Beamer's versus the SEI managed fund that the city has, so. Good, okay. Now we're down to, if there's no other hand waving, I don't see any other business and, now I can't remember, I had brought something up. What was it? Yes, it was the police, it was the FIP. Oh yes, so I would just like to put at a future meeting just the resolution and the completion, I think, of the work that Chief Burke and the FIPP group have been working on in terms of getting policy language in a place where everyone can agree and then they're asking that we have a resolution that applauds that work. I know I think the last time Kevin was concerned as was Chief Burke about that this is an internal rule process thing and it's not something that the council develops but I think we could do a resolution that supports their efforts and says this is good, I'm glad we're doing it. So I just wanna bring that up and have that on the agenda for the next meeting. If that's amenable to everyone. Yes. Okay. Can I follow up with the other issue just to inform? Sure, yeah. Last February before COVID closed everything down, I was invited as a counselor to a parallel justice commission held in Burlington. It had to do with the South Burlington matter and it was someone whose neighbor had and I am not exaggerating been terrorizing the family. This neighbor has some mental health issues and so it's a very sensitive situation, one in which both neighbors need support, both homes need support. And so the question that came up was for the neighbor who's been terrorized by the neighbor, what can the city do to offer support? Because it did not rise to the level where there could be a police order. And so she asked us to consider ordinances or something that would allow the city to, just for some background, the person with the mental health issues does not own the house, it belongs to the parents of this person and the parents are kind of like absentee landlords. And so the ordinance perhaps would be an idea that would allow the city to have some kind of authority to intervene in a case where there is an absentee landlord and an untenable situation where it's just becoming unlivable, where young children are placed in harm's way. So I said that I would bring it back to the council and then COVID hit and of course we were reeling just like everybody else. So that dog park sign, it will be there in summer 2020. We have Megan sign, I'll get this to the council in 2020. I'm wearing it on my face. Here we are in 2021. This person right now is not having to deal with the situation because her neighbor is in custody. He's in law enforcement custody, but that will not last. And so some kind of action she is hoping to see come from this body. I don't know if ordinances are appropriate or if this needs to be a state level decision. I just wanted us to have some follow-up now that sign no longer something I can hold up right with a straight face. So we have to deal with this. So I'm thinking Tom Hubbard, maybe you can, when with Sean or Kevin or whomever can have a conversation and suggest how we might go about responding to this or if there is a good response or if it really is a state issue. I guess Andrew could help with Armanda, but. Yep, I think I've captured what Megan's asking for and I know the chief will be at the next meeting. So we'll have that dialogue. He was at the parallel justice commission meeting. So he is fully aware of the situation as is Lisa Bedinger, of course, who was at that meeting as well. Right. Yeah, and I don't know what's the best format but we should not drop that ball again. We'll do. And I don't mean to suggest you drop the ball Megan. There were good reasons for whatever. Okay. So if there's no other business, I would entertain a motion to convene as the liquor control commission. So moved. So moved. Second. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. So we have, I did not count how many but there's quite a few. But I did look through all of them and they seemed okay to me. What's your pleasure? I would entertain a motion to approve all of the first class and third class. So moved. Okay. I did it. Is there any discussion? We have a motion. Tim. Yeah, you know, the meeting is going too fast. I would like to read through every single application for the alcohol licenses and be that they first or second or third class, please. Wait, wait, wait. And I want to read their addresses in the background. I need to get my dog. Woo! Where is she? Woo! Woo! This is too fast. I can't take a meeting that goes as fast. I don't like it. It just doesn't seem comfortable to me. I want to stretch it out. Because we might be done before 8.20. So we have a motion that's been made and seconded. Are you ready for the vote? Okay, all in favor of the gazillion liquor licenses. We have a lot of bars in South Burlington or places that sell booze. They're not all bars. No. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Helen. Yes. Can I just note, though, that the question is, who knows coming back? I see who knows pizzeria here. Are they coming back? They must be, right? It's one of these costs like $25. It's just maybe hedging their bags. I don't know. Okay. Just in case. I would just like to add that for all those businesses that are restaurants that have been closed or had reduced business, I wish them good luck in the coming season and that they have free sales. And they overflow our coffers with meals tax. Thank you. Yes, and there are a lot of places that need our support. That's for sure. I see them on this list. Yes. Very good. All right. There being no other business, adjournment is in order. Motion to adjourn. Matt has made that motion a second. All in favor? Aye. So thank you. This is probably our shortest meeting ever. Good job, Helen. Ever. No. Okay. We'll continue tomorrow. Tomorrow, though, at five o'clock, and that's just a two hour meeting. And I will tell you the plan for that, I've discussed this with Jessica, is really a conversation between the council and the commission. And to get our questions addressed, and there probably will be some public members who will wanna make comments, but that it will not be, should not be considered a public hearing. We're not gonna give every single person who watches two minutes to say whatever it is they want. I'll try to be thoughtful about that and give people an opportunity, but it's not a public hearing. If they have some questions, then that's different, but not a long discussion about what they feel about things. This is really just for our edification, I guess. Megan? I think it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Thank you. Meg? You're on mute. I just wanted Tom to know that I had brought it before the issue of piano time. I had brought up to the council before the issue about the neighbors roughly a year and a month ago. So there might be some preliminary work that has been done. Kevin did make note of it. He did do something. I don't know what he did, but just I wanted people to see if, perhaps he'd already thought through some things. I have no idea. Okay. Great. Well, Tim? Raise your hand if you've been vaccinated. Oh, I'm getting on a plane and flying out west on Thursday to see all my grandkids. All right, Barb. So I'm out of here for 10 days. Yay, can't wait. Good for you. Thank you, thank you everybody for doing that. So yeah. All right, something to be proud of. You will. You too. Thanks everybody.