 Good afternoon Welcome to the US Institute of peace and the event women guiding peace after war lessons from Rwanda My name is Kathleen keenest and I'm the director for gender policy and strategy here at the Institute And I want to expand extend an especially warm. Thank you to The NGO inclusive security for their role in co-hosting this event today, so thank you for your team and your leadership We have a terrific panel organized And a full house here, and so I also want to welcome many of you who are joining us via webcast today Let me begin by saying that the US Institute of peace was founded 33 years ago by the US Congress as an independent national Institute Dedicated to the proposition that peace is possible Practical and essential for us and global security Every day at US IP we make it a practice to analyze and to learn from our experiences of working in conflict zones and So today's event is very much in keeping to our commitment of learning more about the gender impacts of violence and violent conflict And how women can and do play a central role in guiding peace The event today will also help us understand more about Rwanda a country that just 23 years ago was caught for a hundred horrific days in a genocide With over 800 people murdered What happened after the genocide and How do we make sense of the fact that this same country was rated in? 2016 global gender gap index as the top five countries in Gender equality Just after Iceland Finland Norway and Sweden The United States had a ranking of 45 So these are the many questions that we have to look forward to Hopefully with some ideas and answers this afternoon I'm now honored to introduce you to five Distinguished panelists who will aid in our analysis and our understanding Each of the panelists bios are with the agenda But for the sake of our viewing audience and time, I'm gonna now offer just a very abbreviated introduction First I want to welcome a bastard swanee hunt back to US IP She is the founder and chair of inclusive security and the author of Rwandan women rising her work on ensuring inclusivity began as When she was ambassador to Austria when she hosted negotiations and an international symposia focused on Stabilizing the neighboring Balkan states Today we will hear about her fourth book Which explores how including women leaders enabled Rwanda to rebuild after the 1994 genocide Joining us also is consulate Nishima Wah Consulate is the survivor of the 1994 genocide She was 14 years old at the time She is a committed speaker on genocide and a defender of global women's rights and An advocate for other genocide survivors Consulate detailed her story in the published book test to the limit a genocide survivor story of pain resilience and hope Welcome consulate. Thank you Pleased to also introduce to you ambassador George moose who is the vice chairman of the US Institute of Peace Board of Directors, he was appointed by the White House in June 2007 to our board He is a career member of the US Foreign Service where he attained the rank of career ambassador where he served in the capacity in the Republic of Benin and the Republic of Senegal He also serves on the boards of search for common ground the Atlantic Council and Elder Hostel And also joining us today from US IP is our director of Africa programs Susan Stegant Susan has focused much of her work on the design and implementation of constitution making processes in post-conflict and transitional states Previously she managed constitutional development and engagement programs in Somalia Yemen and South Sudan with the National Democratic Institute and Finally our moderator today is Carla Cappell Carla is SIP's vice president for the Center for Applied Conflict Transformation This center serves as the hub for the Institute's common resources to prevent mitigate and resolve violent conflict She was previously chief strategy officer for USAID and its first senior coordinator for gender equality and women's empowerment Prior to joining USAID Carla directed the Institute for Inclusive Security here in Washington and the Office of Hunt alternatives fun Please join me now in welcoming the panel and its moderator Carla Cappell. Thank you Good afternoon everyone and I have to start by encouraging some of those who are standing in the back to take these Empty seats in the front not least of all because I know it will drive ambassador hunt crazy So you will do her a personal favor and all of us by occupying them So there are four of them And they are free and I know that we have An overflow room as well, but we'd love to get these filled and I know we have a lot of people online So welcome for what is an important conversation and one that I know has been Percolating for a long time in your head So maybe we will start the conversation there and we still have two more seats ladies Mostly ladies standing in the back the room Tell us a little bit about the the genesis for this book and the the voyage you've traveled and putting it together Because I know you've been thinking about a long time. I have thank you as as Kathleen mentioned that thank you for that introduction. Oh wait before I would like to honor my good friend Matilda mukatapana ambassador from Rwanda to the United States. Would you stand up so people can She is a spectacular representation a representative of her country As Kathleen mentioned I was in Vienna as ambassador when Bosnia Went up in flames when Yugoslavia and while that was a long war it was at the same time that Rwanda was happening and and so out of that came a sense that I had that women Were not involved at all in the peace process. I know because I hosted negotiations and And it turned into a very very disappointing Result and the women that I talked with I interviewed 26 of them for seven years they said if we had been in that negotiation it would have been different and then they go into length telling us how and then Joe nye was Dean of the Kennedy School and He saw women the women's leadership as a manifestation of soft power, so he asked me to come from Vienna to there and Create the women in public policy program and and I did that because of this strong interest in what became inclusive security Then I was asked by the US Embassy to come to Rwanda and I was looking at that I think you know probably that is the example of what women can do because you know I was following Oh, you know they're 49% of the parliament. I said wow and and then I thought I'm Gonna write this book with a lot of help from my friends including you and and then I thought I didn't get it done And there's another election crap, you know Yeah, there's no way they're gonna Maintain that 49 and they went up to 56. So now I was really racing the clock. You're okay Third time is not gonna be the charm here But lo and behold they came up to 64 and I thought you know This is the example and in when those women help put together Their country after that genocide they created a model for the entire world And I wanted to document that using the women's voices So deconstruct that a little bit when you say it's the model. What do you think are the key ingredients? What do you think in your research and investigation? Went into that in that evolutionary process that bought them higher and higher, right? what they talk about is the devastation and That the day after they would have six children machete They had to bury the bodies like like You can you can decide you're traumatized But you still have to bury the bodies and that was the kind of pragmatism that these women like they were being forced out Of their their pain So I mean they had to have both at the same time and so they started Organizing at a village level and of course the great organizer among them was in Yumba Aloysia in Yumba who died at 48 and This book is dedicated to her and she was my friend and our friend So she organized These village councils that were all women because it wasn't a progressive society. It's not like oh, well You start out with these gang-ho women. I mean if a woman was present with men She was not to speak So how do you go from that to being the majority in the parliament? Well, she organized these 15,000 villages because that's all Ronda is his villages, right? I mean, excuse me. I mean there are some exceptions ambassador But you get my drift right and so she's not nodding her head Anyway So there are all these villages and these women they have to decide to Essentially, we would say to run to be Representing their village and then then you have to run for the next smaller group Well, you do that six times in tears and you are really ready And then you get yourself on the constitutional commission Which creates the 30% quota 30% of the parliament set aside? Women who pushed up are going to run for those seats obviously and the top is pulling them up That's the Rwandan patriotic front led by Paula Kagame. Okay So you have this pull from the top and this push from the bottom and out of that Comes all kinds of change, but Carla the one thing that is the lesson. I think There are so many lessons here for the international community and I do get to those but I'm not to you right now I'll spare you But one of the most interesting things is that the chaos cracked open the culture and When we think about a place like Syria, we think about a place that's just a god-awful Disaster like Bosnia. You've got chaos. You've got in Egypt, you know after terrier Square You've got chaos and the question is is there a Crack in that social stratum that women can go into For political leadership and I think Rwanda is an example Interesting, so I know that philosophically your Perspective is that by bringing women in you make a difference Could you speak a little bit to what you've observed as the difference that these Rwandan women leaders have made as they have consolidated ever a greater share of power within the legislative branch Yes, and and it's not just the legislative I was talking to one of the US ambassadors and about these great numbers in the parliament He said you're missing the story, you know, that's the famous one. The real story is in the cabinet and And you know they're almost well at different times like 30 40 percent of the judiciary And but in those cabinet positions, you think oh well minister of gender. Yeah true But also Minister of Agriculture and that's the big one, you know minister of foreign affairs these really Important ministries and when you talk to Paul Kagami, you know, he he quips, you know I'm really having to look and find men for my cabinet and so in those roles they led the process on unity and reconciliation and In Yumba was the first commissioner and she said, you know, I just I would lie in bed at night I know what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do and then and this is key and then she said I'm gonna ask the people what to do and she was you know going from one village to another on those deep-rutted roads and Talking to the people in the village and so I learned from her about listening Because out of that she you know different villages had different ways of doing it some acted it out some had songs some had all kinds of stories about how you know you have You have to see women who adopt three who to children or who to women who who adopt for to see orphans I mean it's just extraordinary what they did To unite the country and there there's example after example, but the other piece is the justice system and It's called kachacha and they had 800,000 men in prison and they had to get these men out of these prisons and so the women were the first to organize these courts and And and if you think about it, it this was very very dangerous because women would go as the witnesses And they would go as the judges, you know They weren't all the judges. They weren't all the witnesses, but when they did they were risking reprisals Because if a man was convicted or just even brought before the court, you know, they it was very very dangerous And will you let me read a quote? It won't be very long. Okay. I mean he was to Carla Making my chain Okay, I'm saying nothing You don't know so this is about the kachacha and One of the women who worked with with these women who'd been raped and you know I had to like they've been through hell and back and and She said, you know, if you saw these little district offices, you think oh, well, you know This is gonna take place in private But it wasn't because there were all these windows and there was no one guarding You know, and it was in the middle of the village and she's so this is her quote She says kachacha was very grueling and complex So we have to you know give credit to the people who carried out these trials these people in the village We're often not trained in legal matters and some were not even educated in any field and by that I think that's kind of code, but they couldn't read right and here they are leading these these trials and Then she said the witnesses and survivors were targeted to prevent them from speaking out or in retaliation after they gave the testimony and And there they risked they knew that The these convicts might lash out because they felt like they had nothing to lose The women who participated in the kachacha. This is interesting in any of these roles were particularly at risk because of their weaker social position But the women themselves thought, you know after all I've been through I don't have anything to lose either So I'll stop with this quote This is Marie Claire who? Had been raped gang raped when she was 14 in the village everyone in the village saw it And she says when you look back at the genocide and what happened to the country And you know you survived Not because you're mighty or there's anything unique that made you survive Then you feel indebted and have to lay the ground for your country's future That's why we had to contribute everything we could It's very interesting to what do you attribute? the Rwandan women's success in Gaining this power because you've cited a number of different ingredients, but I'm curious after your investigation where you land They had each other That was a big big part. They were doing this on mass And of course there were the role models like in Yuba and of course there was the international community He was saying come to Beijing come to Harvard, you know, we'll come there We'll do some training etc. Etc. But the women had each other They had the pull from the top granted and that's super important But the women had each other Well, I want to bring in consulate but I before I turn to I know that's want to you're a storyteller Is there any and the book is full of stories? Right? Right. Is there any story that you think kind of captures and crystallizes of an individual that you would bring forward? This journey for Rwandan women sure so Put yourself in a village. You're a widow your widow because your husband's been slaughtered and in fact your son has been slaughtered and your son was slaughtered by his best friend Now best friend fled and Then best friend decided to come back and two million people who had fled Mostly guys came back and they were in this sort of education camp You know to help them with this re-entry and so one of things to help them is the women in the village went up to the camps and And and so they would talk to the man and say okay You're not going to face her prizels when you come back, but there's gonna be really hard feelings Etc. Etc. So she's up in this education camp and she sees the boy who slaughtered her boy and She said to him look Your family is gone My son is gone Now you're my son and he I can hardly tell these stories, you know, I just and he comes back and she says You may live in my home Because you're my son and he said I can't do that So he lives in like a shed in the back of the garden, but she said to him when you marry and Giving you the cow and those of you who spend time in Africa you understand what that means That I'm giving you the inheritance and she said and when I die you have the house Stories like that all over the country So there's something about that character to and culture and how you move that forward and carry it forward Consulate For you this is personal Tell us a little bit about your story to the extent that you're comfortable in your journey in the years since Thank you very much, I would just so like to thank you so much for having me here today to be part of it Thank you ambassador for really telling the story our story It really means a lot for all of us. So and for the people to hear our story. So and I think that The women are really grateful that you're telling their story so and this encourages me more myself to to keep Speaking as well. So and that's what I think you ambassador for being here My story is not a very easy story to tell like many other survivors. So it has been very difficult for me to tell my story, but I realized that We need to tell a story what happened because as the time goes by There are so many genocide deniers out there. So we don't want our stories to to be denied So we just wanted to make sure that the world learned from what happened to us and also to keep the memories alive for those we've lost and And it's very necessary to hear what happened and for me It really took me a long time, but I'm so grateful for the people being around me When the genocide happened I was very young. I was 14 years old As you can imagine a 14 year old, you know Is someone who is happy and looking forward to a good life like any other was just normal? I came here as a teenager So I was very fortunate to be born in a family that loved me that cared for me. I had siblings I was the oldest and I had my I had my sister and my three brothers My parents were teachers so and a big family. We're so happy So but I never thought that my life the joy we had in our home Suddenly would change so and I never imagined that there will be a genocide that happened in our country so and of course the growing up myself I My parents never talked very much about what they went through before because the kiddings happened before even before 1994 of course in 1994 it was a big scale Where they wanted to exterminate the minority tootsies. So my parents of course they went through Discrimination when they were young at work. So I learned that later on so but they managed to make sure me and my Siblings felt confident loved and cared for because that's a culture we live in. That's our culture family Means a lot for you. So you everybody cares for one another in your family. So and when the genocide happened my I And my family we found ourselves going into hiding so but for me I thought this was going to end so but as a young person hearing everywhere That the people were our neighbors picking up their machetes going everywhere to kill the people have never done anything Just simply because we're tootsies. I couldn't comprehend in my mind like how these people changed So suddenly accepting the ideology of heading other people being kind to them who being their neighbors These are people who came to our homes We shared meals, but suddenly they accept hitting the other people simply because of who they are So it was so hard for me to comprehend. So for some people who deny what happened like using the you know other ways to explain why did what happened but Throughout the country everybody picked up the machetes majority of who to speak of their machetes So it was just not sudden. It was all well prepared a genocide. So and in my village We had to go in hiding. So I grew up in western province and keep which used to be called kibuyi So we found ourselves going in hiding in the bushes in the so-called plantations and I remember my parents And myself and one of my paternal aunt came with us together. So and We had to find people who were good friends of ours to hide it. So it was not very easy because throughout the three months people have done horrible things to us either they called kidders for us or they have Done horrible things to us. So and unfortunately in the first It was 15th. I remember When the kidders are founders, that's when We were hiding going, you know in hiding in the house when people took us in their ceilings I'll never forget that day, you know as a young girl who was very close to my dad the kidders followed him and came outside while we're hiding up in the ceiling and Saying how they have murdered my dad along with so many other people to tears. So To me that was the beginning of thinking This is going to be worse. We we never thought we were going to survive So but we kept hiding my mother kept taking me and my siblings to people who to think who is kind Who is kind? So we had to search who see have a kind of heart to to keep us at least, you know longer in the safe home. So but unfortunately, there were so many incidents where people Did horrible things? I remember because it was a rainy season for those people who knew During that period. So we had to go through the bushes My mother had to carry my younger brother was 16 months old the rest of us kids We followed her and where she would knock the door of a neighbor. So I Remember one place we went because my mother being a teacher in the community or a very known by People so as we got there Because the kids were in the house the mother was part of the kidding some of the people You know that some women who are part of the kidding during the genocide. So her husband was at the roadblock. So as we got there The kids beg their mother to help us because the mother was completely changed And as we got in her home in the house, and she said I've never liked it to see in my life But it's because of my kids. So to me, I think it was a miracle And I remember another place because my mother had to keep taking us to several places These were to show you how people have changed that the people were considered to be very close friends of ours So I remember one home we went and these people their kids were the same age as me We used to I used to go to their home and it was we were hungry My mother was trying to figure out who can help. So as he we went there. I remember We knocked the door because you had to avoid going to the main road as you can imagine Everywhere there were roadblocks. So we had to avoid it going to to the main road So we had to go through the bushes and so gom sanitation and and as we got there in the home It was early in the morning for the people who know our town in Rangiera. There's a high school there So and that high school was a place where there were so many killers who gathered there to make sure that they They found the two cities to kill. So and this home they lived facing the high school So as we knocked the door so he came outside and he was wearing a towel around his waist And and there was a man who was standing there who was helping him to kill people and He started calling people using a small drum So and he was facing the high school hoping that there would be many other killers to come and help him So and the rest of us the kids we begged and my mother begged and so He refused and he went back in the house, but we didn't know what else he was going to do so as we We were standing there this many who actually was supposed to even kill us right away I would say was a miracle. He he suddenly he told us just leave leave here. So so this is one place I remember because another place my mother of course she completely Realized that people have changed. We don't really know who else to turn to so She carried my younger brother on her back the whole time and Because we're hungry a lot of times going through the bushes and falling down Sometimes she will come and pick us all of us because it was not easy for her and As you can imagine as a parent she here to here sometimes sometimes our culture crying so I Remember because there was a time The killer's founders and they took my mother and the rest of us kids that stayed in that place where we're hiding and in this home and Throughout the village so many men were killed and women who were not killed. They were kept for Being brutally raped by gangs killers or Some of them were killed immediately. So That's why you could find so many new women who are still alive so and they took my mother and my younger brother and she and In our village because mostly men were killed. So they heard my brothers were still alive So they started talking how they they didn't do anything. So meaning at that time They used to use word to work normally work You think it's making money to make you live a good life, but they use the terms to Determine our normal we use in our normal lives to kind of change it in the killing times so even in in Gospel songs even in they use the sum of the gospel songs to make sure Saying that the two Tsis were God has given up on us and we have to be killed. So I remember My mother saw in my mind. I was thinking. I don't know if these killers who took her whether she was going to survive. So Fortunately we were able to find her but they left her to a neighbor Where they decided whenever they wanted we're going to cure her So I was able to find her and my siblings because this man was hiding as refused to Keep us any longer As we got there Myself, I just want to make sure we are together whatever happens because there was no Not any way to think that we're going to survive at least we if we're all together at least we will be killed together. So They decided to kill my brothers and When the time came to show you how this genocide was so bad One of the people who came to kill my brothers along with other killers Was somebody who grew up with my mom my mom considered to be like a brother So he came with a machine has killed you know a club it murdered so many people and had other killers with him They took my younger brothers who are nine years old seven 16 months old to our destroyed home Because it was completely destroyed and they slaughtered them and through their bodies in in our septic tank and The rest of us girls they didn't want to kill us. They said we are going to kill whenever We want so As you can imagine my mother it was very hard for her to have this boy, especially the one who was Holding on to her all the time being taken from her She didn't we didn't want to hide anymore, but when you you will survive things keep happening. So As I mentioned before like so many girls and you know women everywhere were raped and brutally raped to its women in a very torturing way We didn't know whether we were going to just be killed right away We thought we were going to be tortured the same way before we be killed. So Where we're hiding and This man who was our neighbor these are the people we knew came where we are hiding he had a sword and Unfortunately because in our home we're hiding the person the man was not Was part of the kidding except the wife who was kind enough to Help me and my mother and my sister But she couldn't help much. So and this man decided to take me from everyone and And it dragged me on the street and being me with this word Unfortunately took me not too far from our home and I was raped by him as You can't imagine. I want to be killed right away. So this man left me They are hoping that there will be many others who come and torture me more But I was able to drag myself to where my mom was and And she saw how I looked you imagine in the pain in my mother Hard in her heart having to lose her boys and then to see what how I looked like and Luckily in the Muslim community that was not far from our home A Man who was actually never been part of the killing was able to hide us until We the country was liberated By the RPF and we survived and found out that there's so many of our family members my grandparents Homes everything we had Myself being raped and having the pain in my heart I didn't know whether I was going to be a normal functioning 14 year old as a happy girl. I was before It was not easy for my mom and my sister It's a long story there were so many other places we've been so But my mother is A very strong woman. I don't know I can't find words to describe Um, she's one of the people that I Admire I'm so grateful. She survived with me. I'm grateful that Because I have friends who don't have anyone At least I'm whenever I needed to cry with even if she had a pain in her heart I can lean on her shoulder. This is a woman who decided to go back to work and Despite all the things that people have done to her She went in school and taught some of the kids of the people who have done horrible things to us This is a woman who taught me to not hate anybody despite all the things they have done to us She told me that we should be different and The people worked with her she became like a Tisha to them and said showing them What you've done This is a person who Walk up in the morning and told me and my sister and my cousin actually who was living with us that We should grow up Being kind to other people no matter what they do to us We should because it's not going to help us heal from what it went through and we should help others It doesn't matter where they come from who they are whether they are the kids from the people have done or but he thinks was we should be kind to them and As fast as he was but I'm so grateful that I had to learn that so it helped me to To be able to learn to be compassionate to others because This is what we needed in our country. So and our neighbors They learned from her like many other widows. They were able so for her now the kids She thought are so grateful that she's been there. I get messages from people tell me thank you for your mom for being a good teacher for us and Nobody came to a home and refused to give her meals. So even now she does that so and and for me These are my my sheroes actually I'll say my sheroes. I'm sorry to say She's there women like her they are pillow of our strength. So to me If we didn't have those women like her to teachers help, you know to keep loving to never hate I don't think you're I mean where we are now. So and for me Looking around and see that I Learned how to to gradually to learn how to speak out what happened to me despite the pain I was carrying I had to to be vulnerable. I learned that vulnerability is not a weakness So to me when I started talking about my experience. It was almost like a relief You know In my heart, it was a relief in my heart. It was like a load shift lifted off my shoulder So for me, I realized he was helping my mother as well so we helped each other in directly without knowing that so and for me, I looked around myself that We we need to start I need to start from within despite the pain I was caring I have to make sure that I start from within to make sure that on the outside It's better. So And I think my mother had to do what she had to do But I also had to help her from from healing from deep within so and the healing within Takes a long time. It's a journey. It's a long journey. So but we have to start somewhere in order to also Make sure we heal from the inside as well. So for me Speaking out what happened to us, I know there are so many Especially when it comes to sexual violence, not so many when it's not an easy Topic for anybody to talk about so for me I had to have the courage to speak for to encourage other young girls who Were not going to be able to speak out even those who are no longer live going to speak out so that we We show people that this is not Sexual violence is not something you heal. It doesn't go anywhere. So for me it's something you leave with but you have to find a way to To to to heal in some ways for me Having the consequences of what happened to me like now I live with HIV as a result of rape It's not a very easy for me I have something that reminds me every day that what happened to me, but I don't have to that's why I love Maya Angelou she say you may not control all the events that happen to you But you can refuse to be reduced by them. So I love that because It keeps reminding me that I should not allow what happened to me to dictate how I live with my life So because there are so many other young people who are coming So they they they needed to to learn from us how we live because we need to be alive for them So and also to make sure what happened to us. You won't keep happening anywhere, especially when it comes to rape it's really a horrible thing I don't want anybody to go through that because It lives it keeps a mark in your life. It's not It's really you can't find the words to describe to describe the pain you carry within yourself. So and that's why I think for me I I'm encouraged to speak more because we want to make sure that no one in the world You know, everybody deserves to live in peace and we all need to To to to care for one another especially for women because a woman is the heart of the family That's in our culture a woman is the heart of the family. So when a woman is taking care of a woman is healthy and well They can do much more than you could ever imagine. So Ali I am strong and healthy because of my mother and many other women. So That's why More encouraged to tell our stories of what happened during the genocide and also for others to keep doing what they do to help Rebuild our lives in our future. So Well, first of all, thank you for your willingness to share your story It's incredibly important to the memory of those who lost their lives and were injured that you Maintain that narrative that you bring it forward that you are willing to share that and perhaps emblematic of the strength of Rhonda's women and You your own strength your mother's strength in carrying that forward. So thank you very much for that And I think bringing to life in some ways all of the women that you feature and refer to in Rwandan women rising I want to bring in Ambassador moose and you have a tough act to follow And Susan Sigan ambassador, maybe you could help us Put it in a broader context based on your illustrious work and career in in Africa Thanks, Carl and and thanks Constantly for sharing your willingness and openness and sharing your story It's it's vitally important to helping us understand Yeah, we in this institute we do a lot of thinking But that thinking has to be informed by the reality of what people experience and felt Situations like yours in Rwanda, so fairly important and thanks to Sony as well for Bringing to us a whole collection and about that soon to be published. Some of us had a little bit of a preview a whole collection of stories and for providing women survivors of genocide and Rwanda with The vehicle for speaking to us directly about their experiences as well. I think for those many of us who Lived in the Rwandan experience Not nearly as personally as you did but certainly in a very Intimate way I at the time as some of you know I was the Assistant Secretary for African Affairs in that period in 1994 during the genocide and in fact This is working. Yes. Okay. And in fact the night before the genocide began. I was in Kampala with our colleague Johnny Carson is not here today meeting with Paul Kagami and An effort to try to find a way to complete that negotiation that was going on to prevent What we all feared might be violence although frankly none of us imagined You did not violence on the scale that was to happen So simply to say that this is not a this is not abstract at all to me and it's something That is has remained very much part of my conscious consciousness ever since But it's an experience that I think left to me with more questions than answers and counsel You've you've sort of evoked a lot of those questions. Now. How could people? Who had been your close neighbor most intimate Friends From one day to the next become Totally different You know it raises questions about the very essence of human nature and whether or not This capacity for such extraordinary violence is something that is inherent in our very natures and I think this For that reason alone this book is your books on a and your testimonials will be enormously helpful and Helping us understand that question so many many more, but first and foremost. I think what we all take away from this is just They're two positive stories the first is a story of extraordinary resilience which you embody and the ability of people to go through the most horrific Wrenching experiences and yet emerge With heart soul personality agency to carry forward and and that's Extraordinary and we need to look at that in the context of the many other Situations we are looking at right now and the second part positive part of that story is the Rise out of this catastrophe of this extraordinary generation of Rwandan women and The role that they have asserted for themselves in one And that you know, I'm almost unrivaled in the world And that too, I think we need to understand better But it does still leave us with some other questions and one of the questions that I have is is Is to what extent to this this rise of this movement of empowered women in Rwanda Offer the the hope and the possibility of a reconciliation a genuine reconciliation that is lasting and enduring and More particularly In the context of Rwanda's current politics And it will come as no surprise now investors as some of us have been somewhat concerned and critical of What we see as a tendency of on the part of the government to revert to resort to autocratic means undemocratic means in its approach to Rwandan's governance and The implications of that for reconciliation. So the question the second part of the question is, you know, to what extent does Is this movement Can it Succeed in altering that dynamic can it succeed in this great Mission of bringing reconciliation to to Rwanda or Is the movement itself threatened by the context within which it emerges Many many questions those are just a couple that have come to my mind, and I'm sure Susan has some others as well And I hate to put those questions But I'd be most interested in what your perspective is how you see what's happening in terms of the role of women and their assertion of their own Political power how that affects the prospects for this Wider larger national reconciliation process that will form the basis of an enduring peace in Rwanda Thank you I think before we turn back if folks have comments. I'll turn to Susan Susan works on a number of countries across the continent and when we were preparing for this discussion We wanted to make sure we were telescoping out to kind of get the perspective that consulate even talked about You know, how do I use the power of this message both the power of the message of a surviving genocide and the power of women's empowerment to help prevent this from ever taking place again, and so I'm curious Susan is to your Observations of what the lessons are of and from Rwanda for other parts of the continent Sure. Thank you, and thank you to all of all of the participants today for sharing their stories and their their insights Maybe I can channel some perspectives from some of our partners from South Sudan This is a group of men and women who we have been working with Trying to understand how gender their role as men and women impacts on the violent conflict in the country And as part of that program we're actually able to take them to Rwanda To visit with learn from engage with with some of the survivors and the organizations that are working in various ways to bring the country back together again, and and I think it was it was striking to me that people would People would talk about this very important embodiment that you can you don't have to be associated with the actions of your community So it's possible that people can be accepted no matter what happened And that people can be judged on their own actions and not the actions of their family members or of their broader Community, and so this was even in a very early stage of the South Sudan Conflict where we know you know the numbers are incredibly astonishing now in terms of the number of people who have been displaced 6 billion people 6 million people who Are in need desperate need of food assistance an unknown number of people who've been killed in the conflict And even at that very early stage Hearing those stories gave people hope that it was possible to move beyond violent conflict There are various different tools and approaches that can work and that even people who are who have Family members or others who have been involved in the conflict that there is a way for them to play a positive role in building peace In their families in their communities and at a national level, and I think that's a really really important story To share we we often get caught up in numbers and in indexes and in frameworks And what does 6 million people mean? But to hear those those stories both of what people have survived through and how they've moved forward together I think is is very very powerful One of the stories that I wish we could tell more about and learn more from is How do you create that moment where people are united from the chaos and not further divided? because I think what we've seen over and over again sadly is that that Women and other groups actually get divided through the conflict and and aren't Able to break through the power dynamics that are taking place And I believe it's possible, but it would be wonderful to learn what what helps to create that moment So that women can play that that that very important role in interning the corner and helping to move beyond the current status quo Great, thank you for those thoughts What I'm gonna do just so you sort of know where we're going is I'm gonna turn back to ambassador hunt and consulate for their comments on the Issues that Pastor moose and and Susan have raised which are fairly wide ranging Then I'm gonna open up the conversation to all of you so that we can have more of a discussion Ambassador hunt you've been listening now for a while thoughts on a whole range of different issues take your pick I'm gonna go back to something you asked and then I'll Connected to what you're saying when you said what is the difference that women have made and I talked about the unity and reconciliation but they have also They have enacted health care laws and Practices that are unparalleled. So and the same with education, you know 96% of the children are in school and it's now compulsory through ninth grade And so in terms of you know, the indices that World Bank at all They are leapfrogging of Above other countries a lot of that is women run now to your point in terms of the politics I Don't like going there because Because it's such a well-worn Topic and this is the untold story All right, and so I think we need to stay I have to stay with this untold story But I I will say one. I'll I'm breaking my rule But it's because you and I go back right and That is I was talking. I think it's Steven Kinzer who wrote a wonderful book land of a thousand Hills Was that the one okay, and he said something about well Kagame is such a strong man that there's no one in the Parliament Unless he wants that person to be in the Parliament and I said, well, isn't it interesting if he wants All of those women to be in the Parliament. Let's just you know go assume that and so yeah, and then and then I think it was Somebody said Yeah, well he just wants them there because you know, they're moderate, you know, they're not gonna oppose him And they're not gonna you're starting a war and killing people and and I thought well, yeah So, you know you just you get into these Really you start pulling these strings and sometimes they don't take you where you think they're going to go and it's very hard it's very hard because in In our country we we are so wedded to free speech and we're so wedded to these basic tenets of democracy I get that Very very hard after a genocide to go in and say this is the model And so if I say that then it sounds like I'm soft on Kigali, which actually I'm actually not But I do but I don't want to also be naive about imposing our kind of democracy in that kind of setting I Just broke like I Consulate a whole range of issues and and we put a lot of pressure on you because you pivot from an incredibly emotional and personal Story to a geopolitical analysis, which is very unfair, but we'll do it nonetheless Thoughts that come to your mind sort of when you Move beyond that personal experience and think about the women of Rwanda more generally in the continent of Africa And and what it says for the future I Am so grateful that Women are Have we our women? Have done well. So they are really like ambassador who is here an amazing person And I'm grateful that They are they are the people are learning from them. So because to me As a person who grew up there right after the genocide and observing everything so to me, I think There are so many great lessons to learn to learn from you know from all these women all they have done. So and I think To me it was a positive thing for Any country can learn from so it's a positive thing so because after coming from a tragedy like a genocide What else? I mean, they I've never heard any other country Had a genocide that Probably is being able to Be where Rwanda is right now. So and and I think to me I'm grateful that I'm alive to be out even my mother. We are alive. You are so grateful to be able to see this and To see that there's a brighter future for the younger generation because they are going to live a better life Not the life we lived so I don't know if I can say much beyond that but But now political But But to me I'm so grateful that I'm here to be able to see this happening. So I think you're doing more than that Your country and I'll sort of break the fourth wall for a second because One of the things I've seen is the Rwandan women and the importance and potency of their message for other women leaders, I mean we've and and Swanee and I have seen how Lois in Yumba went to Liberia and Worked with Ellen Johnson Sirleaf and the women who were elected after after her election into the legislative branch and how they have hosted the Sudanese and South Sudanese women and and really brought their message and so there is a Leadership and a magnification of their impact that extends well beyond just the Indicators within Rwanda progress and the leadership that they've brought to Rwanda So I think you do see you do see that multiplication and and after effects Let me open it up and what I'm going to do is I'll take some groups of questions at a time Form from the floor and what we'll do is if you have further thoughts Mr. Moose and Susan with regard to that exchange let's mix that into the conversation so that we make sure to engage everyone And if when you wait for the microphone and tell us who you are and we'll take a group of questions and then circle back We'll start there Thank you, my name is Simon Ateba from SimonAteba.com an online newspaper based in Nigeria When those when these conflicts start often they start in the media you hear a tootsie has your skill and You know the the other tribe and so you have these you know the fear the anger and Grows and eventually is a conflagration and they can't control it How do you think that the media can be supported and because a lot of those medias are actually extremely poor and Depends on the government can easily be manipulated and so how do you think that the you know the media can be supported to be fair to be independent and Even you know try to detach itself from the tribe. Thank you Thank you very much go up here Sorry, I'll go back Hi, my name is Leara Falk I work for the State Department on African energy issues I'm concerned that a lot of the examples we use about the rise of women in Africa are examples that come particularly from tragedy or from immense conflicts like Rwanda and Liberia What do you think we can do to take the messages of? place like Rwanda and expand it to places that don't have conflict right now, but would Benefit immensely from the perspectives of women in governance or in economic development When we go let's get some back. Sorry Chelsea. I'm making you walk. I apologize Go way back. I think she recognized me. That's my second back here My name is Eve Ferguson. I'm from the Library of Congress and I wanted to ask Constell a Well a lot of times And it may be difficult for me to ask this the correct way But a lot of times when something has happened and you have a platform to speak on you speak on that platform how has it been integrating into quote-unquote normal Rwandan society without always having to relive or you know Go back over the tragedy that happened in your life. How has that adjustment been and do you serve women's groups and Help them with somewhat similar situations Great and just for equity's sake. I'm going to take a fourth one I think this from the overflow room and we're going to come back to the group and then we'll go out for some more questions So this is from the former mission director of USAID and Sarajevo Howard Samka For Swanee hunt although killing ended in former Yugoslavia reconciliation remains elusive Kosovo Macedonia Bosnia why did the chaos that rippled open that culture not lead to serious reconciliation or to more political and social engagement by women So we have a wonderful and wide-ranging series of questions And I would ask everybody to be Succinct in the questions they answer you don't all need to answer every question because we have a ton of questions to scoop up again Next so who would like to go first with whichever question they are interested in responding to Well, let me very briefly just started because I just wanted to circle back to the question the question of How this extraordinary Presidents now of women in the political space is influencing the process of national reconciliation because I think in that limbo is back to the question of What you know, how does this then speak? To other places you know that hopefully you're happily don't have conflict What are the lessons that one can take from the experience of Rwanda recovering from this terrible genocide? and and and apply that places Have not yet have not and hopefully will not Experience and I do think there's a lesson there because I do think the issues of the the kinds of Of roles and voices and influence women have are precisely now in Rwanda are precisely Laying the foundation we hope for a never again in Rwanda and the lesson that to Others should draw from that is you need to be doing this now So because that is what inoculates your that's what helps inoculates not the only thing I think we need to be clear about this. This is not a the solution to every problem that One confronts in Africa, but it's certainly part of the solution and because we know from our experience it all too often These conflicts arise precisely Because exclusion of various kinds and gender exclusion being one of the most important Susan do you want to speak to the media? The first question a little bit Sure I think the question was about how can you ensure media independence when media stations are really dependent on on government funding and I think this is part of a broader effort to to build institutions across To ensure that it's not just government that's funding media But that there's also other other mechanisms and openings for it and hopefully over time It also means that there's a robust space for civil society to have some sort of oversight and some sort of say What is what is in the media? And I think it's concerning. I think we see as a trend that Media oversight bodies that are being created generally on the continent are not to help to ensure that there isn't hate speech But they're being actually used to limit Speech or a limit access of journalists. So I think this is a really important area to focus There are probably stories of women journalists who've played a really important role going forward I think just to pivot to the question about the successes I think you know, we we often focus on the the political and the politics and that's absolutely critical But I think they're really important leadership stories that are about other sectors and figuring out ways to elevate those Is is a complement to what's happening in the political sphere? Great. Thank you I'll do Yugoslavia and then go to your question because you're my student It's good to see you First of all the in Yugoslavia When I lay a lot of this at the feet of Dayton and and that as you know was Was not Yugoslavia that we were very very involved in Dayton and there were 40 women's groups Determined to stop the war and they were they were Multicultural and none and that group they even were organized into a group of women's groups They were not Included in the Dayton agreement. So it was basically all men. This is the other book. It's not their war. That's right This was not another one called world's apart. Okay, but Christmas is coming. So don't worry You have Excuses to buy them all okay, so if you if you look at what the women said and that's where I'm gathering this It's not my own analysis They said okay Guaranteed they didn't guaranteed a right to return to your home Yeah, the problem was that it didn't guarantee that and died of war criminals would be picked up So you've got a mayor there who led in what this stupid word Ethnic cleansing there's nothing clean about ethnic cleansing right and but the rape and pillaging and and so he's still there So right to return really and how is that meaningful? The the other thing it established three presidents because they couldn't decide so you know So These guys they they bluffed their way through they had three presidents a Serb crud and What they called a Muslim but a Bosniak right right and so and three foreign ministers and three prime ministers Well, clearly you can't govern like that And so you had to be a hardliner to actually have one of those places because you had to declare yourself A crud a Bosnian crud right even though you were from a mixed marriage So now you had to declare yourself and the women say this was the opposite of what they had been working on and so I'm gonna link these two answers because Yugoslavia when it fell apart had two things it had the smallest percent of women in the parliament of any country in Europe and It also had the highest percentage of women PhDs of any country in Europe So put those together right now. I'm taking us to the US Right. Are there any lessons here? Well, guess what? We are 100th in the world in terms of representation in Parliament 100th and We've got 33% of the Democratic caucus is women 8% of the Republican caucus is women and the women and the in both parties They run at the same rate, but the Republican women cannot get out of their primaries So if in fact We had 33% women on both sides. We would break gridlock I'm just telling you we would we would break gridlock and have a range of different policies That are much more humane and we have brand new research by the way like last week That says even with that imbalance women are Cosponsoring many more bills and they're doing it across Isles and they're putting themselves at risk in terms of their place in the party So we have to figure out what they can learn about the representation in Parliament One other example I would cite is the research on India where there were set-asides at the panchayat level and women in government changed both the governance and the prioritization vis-a-vis investments and So you're dealing with a non-conflict setting in which you increase women's leadership and you see increased investments and in social in social and Infrastructure and changes in the way that budgets are spent with positive knock-on benefits for For the well-being of those populations Consulate your personal journey home Yeah, I Think It's been very positive for my fellow Rondon's and and survivors who Actually, it has helped them they encouraged me they encouraged me to keep talking So because it's helping most of them a lot of them actually because we need to encourage each other to tell our stories and And we want our stories to be to be heard So Especially for what we went through so and I think a lot of them are starting to tell their own stories Which is going to to help them? Even started a journey of healing within so And and I think it's so important to to know what women went through. I don't know if most of you have heard there was a Documentary some of the women are called the uncondemned so There are some women who got the courage to go testify in the IC in the court in the International Crime Inno Tribunal for Rwanda and for the first time in the history rape was Convicted convicted as a crime against humanity. So the courage of these women also to to speak and It's it helps other women too So I mean and and for me I Found that the courage to Because for me, too, I was able to face the man, but it was not easy. I was still a teenager But we had to to keep sharing the struggle You know you you you go through but what we did and I think it's so important so and I think they've been very encouraging we keep helping each other and being part of our Heating journey as well. So I'm part of so many survivors groups and and and and we we talk about it. We're So great for that I'm able to to have the strength and others to help to contribute to help my fellow survivors and to help each other So, yeah, thank you Comments A little bit of this time back here Hi, my name is Sandra Tombin. I'm a graduate student at the George Mason University at the school for conflict analysis And resolution is such a long title but my question is Thank you all for being here. It was Consolidates it was very heart-breaking to hear a story and I thank you for the courage to be here and to speak today I'm from South Sudan so I can relate to what you've talked about about what's happening back home My question is looking at this room and looking at the majority of us being female and being women How my question for all of you is how do include men in that conversation because we Ultimately, they will be part of the future, right? So how do we change your perspective to prevent crimes like rape in the future? How do you see men being part of this conversation? How do we move forward from here? So thank you Come to the ambassador you want to speak? Since most people are afraid of political discourse I have to make a small point about the political stuff Very quickly and then maybe you can weigh on what I'm saying one of the things I wish That the research that is so I need it in an amazing fashion Would be under taken also to see the political Genocide because one thing that sometimes and I'm saying it Because I'm presenting wonder obviously and you might think it's because of political reasons Myself not too long ago. I was living in the United States and I was teaching history of the United States So pretty much I went through the history There was no time when democracy is a place you learn It's a process Over for all practical purposes in Rwanda is it 23 years old? Or our institution had failed miserably completely. We are talking about to the church. We are talking about to the state We had the media We had the media what we call media of genocide that is being tried in the international tribe, you know So when you look at the women development, you can't really Understand it without putting it in a larger context over Rwanda and history because there is a big pillar of political empowerment and good governance because you were talking about for instance The whole idea of always talking about women empowerment in a conflict Steal, you know for us we can't separate that from genocide unfortunately, but what I'm trying to tell you is that We didn't sit on our butts waiting for the political development to happen What you don't see in Rwanda that you see you are and I Really would invite you to go and see especially the youth because as you know Rwanda is 70% Biro 30 these are people who are empowered if we go to our ministries all these women We are talking about they are young people like a consulate Who don't want to carry the same burden? And these people have agency. It's not you know that you would leave too much Power to president Kagame if you say that he comes to the United States Where we are going to have ten voting stations of kids who were born in the United States who are Americans But who can exercise also the voting rights in Rwanda? Now you can say why is he so popular? You have to understand again within the context of Rwanda He is the first person who did the nation. We had the country. We're divided for the first time You are saying it's not perfect. We are still really like what to consider was saying it's a generational thing It will never happen tomorrow But when you are looking at the country coming out of genocide the 23 years ago achieving this It's because of the purpose of the people is to because they came together We couldn't have done what we have done without working at the Efficacy of people coming together the decentralization the people the women Otherwise, we will be removing the agency of women. We are talking about if you say that there's one man Who is out there who is directing himself in office? Who is doing all of this? We are at the point when we need stability Our region is not very stable So when you you find someone who has ensured that not any single person is coming to be cut in With a machete we all lost people. I Lost 70 people of the member of my family. I could have said in the United States But the main reason I'm doing it with the passion. It's because I've seen in the United States especially They accept already the economic advancement Rwanda has made they accept even women But they believe it's it's a floating somewhere. It's because there's that empowerment of the people Otherwise, you can't really make it anything that that will stand. So I didn't want to do this Thank you very much our patient gentlemen Thank you man. I'm back. Thank you. My name is Aman Chirani. I'm a student at UGA You kind of touched on it in the back actually I think we all can agree that Rwanda is a great example and that women in politics has has some very important success stories. So I'm curious Because we mentioned that the United States was 42nd or 45th or something as a young man in this country What can I do or what can I kind of discuss amongst my friends? To help empower women and to help bring that change in this country and around the world because you know We've always been told that speaking is one thing But it's important to pass the mic along and and I want to know as a young man growing up in this country What can I do to help women and to bring our country up? I guess on that list and other places in the world No, okay, we have three we have three minutes left So I'm not gonna be able to take any more questions, but you can go ahead and I'm gonna wait I'm gonna give the last word to consulate because she is our guest of honor if you don't mind my saying So go ahead and you have one And that is they're gonna be according to news hour lots and lots of Open seats and you know 92% of incumbents are in the parliament are re-elected in our Congress I think it's something like that and So we're gonna have these open seats in next year what we need to do What both Republican sides and Democratic side? We need to make sure that those women are Contesting very very strongly. Well, first you have to find women. You have to encourage women. They may be business women They may be Heading a non-profit. They could be a university president whoever they are They you need to get your friends to call them over and over and over And don't just rely on the detrip or whatever, you know the equivalent is Yeah, is there an art? trip anyway Whatever don't rely on the political parties find an organization and there are plenty of them There and they bipartisan that are working on getting women into our Congress and get behind those It's grandmaster. I think I risked my case I Yield the floor Thank you. I just want to really thank you so much for organizing this really It may it means a lie meant a lot for me to be here. Thank you for your words and and One message I can give you is that no matter what you go through never lose hope Because that's what happened to us. We never we didn't give up. We never lost hope and when you have faith you have strength and One message I can leave you with is no matter what horrible circumstances You may face in your life never lose hope for losing hope is the beginning of your own self defeat I can leave you with that Thank you Thank you all for joining us for what I think was an incredibly rich conversation And thanks to those who are online and in the overflow room and this will be posted online as well So you can share it with others. I think it's been very rich. Thank you for joining us