 First of all, we'd love to just hear a little bit more about you and your career, because I think starting with sports and performance psychology, how did you get excited about that and what drew you to that profession? First, I want to say thank you for having me on. I love what you guys are doing, and I'm excited to have this conversation with you. So to answer the first question there is that I earned this path the honest way, meaning that I needed it. Like I really needed it. As a young athlete, I grew up in California, my first sport was surfing. The first sport I loved was surfing, and there's two types of surfing. There is free surfing, like it was more called hardcore surfing. So free surfing and competitive surfing. And during free surfing, I could do my thing. I'm not saying I was good. I'm not saying I was great by any means, but I could do the things that I knew were just above my capabilities in that range, and it was awesome. I loved it. And free surfing was really about, I had that hardcore approach, which was, hey, don't talk about it. If you do something heavy, don't celebrate. Just be about it, learn from it, grow, be in that experience. Don't talk about it later. And then competitive surfing was like a 180 degree, or thought only different, which is there was people on the beach watching and judging and critiquing. And it was that whole thing. And it created such an internal cluster for me is that I couldn't access. I couldn't access the things that I knew I was capable of. So we'd like to say that's performance anxiety, but I was just, I was constricted. And it was probably more than performance anxiety. I just really was unable to access what I had inside of me. So I didn't know there was such a thing. As psychology, I had no clue. I was 15 years old, trying to just figure out, you know, how to put one foot in front of the other. I didn't know anyone that was a doctor other than my pediatrician. You know, that tells you a little bit about like my family structure. And we organically, I organically just tripped into this space, like, oh my goodness, there's this thing called the mind. And that's what's getting in my way. The hell is that about? And so I just fell in love with it, you know, right off the gates almost. I think the perception of surfing has a very Wu Zen aspect to it from an outsider where you're at one with nature and it is you against nature and working through it to be at your best to use nature to for all of its its advantage. It's interesting to hear those two components so separately when the outside perception is that they're so together. Yeah, there's another variable. So that is part of it. You know, that is what actually we're trying to do is to be fully connected. And that's actually true in just about any performing art or sport or even business and in conversations with others, we're trying to connect. And so surfing has maybe like a, I don't know, like a like that Wu Wu thing that you're talking about, like hippie laid back, don't care, whatever that has that. But it is deeper and there's another part which is at is an imaginary line at about 12 feet somewhere in that range when you've got loads of water swirling where it feels like you could drown if you make some mistakes. For me, it's the imaginary line from business to play is about 12 feet. For some people, it's 20 feet, you know, and there's real danger involved. And, you know, there's risk. And so you are sorting out risk. You're trying to be connected. And the only way really to be connected is to use the fear, remove the fear, be connected to what's happening in the present moment. And it's taken me a life to figure that out. And so surfing was teaching me a lot before I could even spell the word psychology. And the podcast, Finding Mastery is in a large part about finding mastery. How did that become a focus of yours? Because I think for many mastery sounds quite intimidating, especially as a youngster. Early in my studies, so just give a quick frame. Undergrad psychology, masters agree in exercise science, sport sciences, what it's known now, PhD in psychology, licensed as a psychologist in a specialization in sport and performance, is that early days, it was about thriving under pressure. And I was like, wait, that's not quite it. Then it's like sustaining high performance. I was like, ah, that's not quite it. It was never about peak performance. That was never what I was interested in because that's like this peak in Valley was not that. And then I thought, so what is the highest form? Well, it's artistic expression. Right. That's not whether it's business, arts or sport, like, okay. So what is that about? Well, that's really about mastery. So what is mastery? That's what I went to set out to really understand because there's not a whole lot of research around it. And so one of the things that I found is that the path, the goal is the path, the path of mastery. And what is mastery? Mastery is working in the nuances, working in such a way that you understand your craft so deeply that you're finding and falling in love with the nuances in a way that is adding to the body of knowledge of that craft. I think for all of us as human beings, when we're able to see mastery in other people, there is something very attractive for it and it almost takes us over. I know for myself, outside of sports, the first mastery that I had seen was in music. And as a musician, seeing clips of, say, Jimmy Hendrix or Led Zeppelin as a kid and seeing them on stage. And there is a sometimes you will watch and there is a place where you know that they have transcended this idea of just being somebody who's performing where they're now part of the music. They are music. And for myself, in seeing that was an endless journey to find those moments. And at least for myself, of following that path, those moments are far and few between, but when you're there, it is the most elating, mind-blowing experience that you could possibly have, which I think leads to its obsession. I love the clarity you have and the first frame that you said is like you can watch it and observe it and there's something about it. And this phrase rings true to me when it comes to mastery is that game recognizes game. So if you have some way of recognizing that somebody has made something very simple and they haven't lost the depth of it and they're playing in the frames between the frames, that that's the nuances that I'm talking about and they're making these micro choices where they're completely, it is only available when you're completely absorbed in the present moment. That's it. So if we go way upstream for me, my life purpose, this is going to sound really grand, but you laid it up for me, my life purpose is to help people live in the present moment more often. That's it. Because the present moment is where wisdom is revealed. It's really important. Where high performance is expressed, okay? It's where all things that are good, true, and beautiful are experienced. So the present moment is the keyhole. How do we get there more often? Well, we need to train and condition our mind. You know, so. It doesn't happen spontaneously, no. No, it can, but that's a tough way to go through life. Yeah, I mean it's super fleeting, yeah. Now, what role does talent play in mastery? Because I think many of us selfishly equate the two. And when I say selfishly, we will often not strive for mastery because we just equate that with the people who are naturally gifted and talented. Let's separate out mastery, talent, and skill, right? So mastery is not, it's different. So mastery is the path, it's the pursuit of. And so it's a combination or a cobbling together of many moments where you're completely at sync. That is where we're on the path of mastery. But talent is what you're born with, okay? It's these natural proclivities that you can do some things quite easily. Skill is what you do on top of talent. And so skill requires refining, it requires work, requires deep focus, it requires a community often. And so that, for me, those are not confusing. Talent and skill. And then mastery is really about the path. So you can be on the path regardless of talent? Oh yeah, actually, you don't really need talent. And I say that as I'm saying it, I'm going, okay, I need to double click on that. Because there are plenty of folks that are on the path of mastery that are extraordinary at understanding the nuances of their craft. Again, that could be conversations. It could be any form of art or business or sport. And they're not the best in the world, but they are right there on the path committed to this high progressive arc of going further, one step further, one step further, one step deeper. And that's not to be confused with folks that are the best in the world. Now, when you put them together and somebody has great talent, a ridiculous work ethic to refine their skill, they have a clear mission and a clear purpose. It works in harmony with the way that they've organized their life and they're committed to a path of mastery. That's really special. Those are the folks that we watch and we see and we go, what is that? Like that is a very special thing. And the last thing I'll say on this note is that with talent, you can be one of the best in the world. There are, in the world of that half of half percenters, there are some people that are doing things that you wouldn't imagine to facilitate great performance. They're eating awful, they're drinking, drugging. They can jump 42 inches. They've got a six pack, like we're just waking out of bed. Like they've got this natural thing. Now they might be one of the best in the world because it is raw talent. I wouldn't even call them highly skilled. And I would say you're certainly not on the path of mastery. When we think about the journey of mastery, the mindset piece is often not the part that we think about until we're actually on the path. So we put so much emphasis on skill and talent. And yet when we think about those classic moments in sports or those classic blunders in general, it really has nothing to do with the skill or the talent. It has everything to do with what went on upstairs, whether it's a yip on the golf course or an air ball in a basketball game. Skill and talent obviously guide you to the elite level, but that mindset and the performance in your mind is what actually matters in those crucial moments. Press to find a world-class athlete or coach or musician that doesn't nod their head up and down to the importance of the inner game of the psychological skills and the mindset to use your language like flat out. Because everybody on the world stage has got ridiculous skill and talent. So what is that separator? It's the way that you can organize your inner life. It's the mental skills that you have. And by the way, skills require sets and reps. Like you've got to train skills to get good at it. And there are mental skills, confidence is a skill. You can train it, mechanically train it. It's not complicated. Same with calm, same with deep focus, same with optimism, it's a skill. And so mindfulness as well. So training those skills allows you to spend more time in the present moment. And again, that's where high performance is expressed. And that's where wisdom revealed and all the other stuff I was talking about. So it's also the entryway into flow state. So flow state is by definition one of the most optimal states a human can be in. And without deep focus, you don't quite get in there. Without some risk and challenge, you can't quite get in there with a negative chatter and negative internal chatter, it blocks the doorway. And so yeah, the way that you use your mind is important for all facets of life, including joy and happiness, certainly high performance. I would imagine with all the young men that you do work with, certainly skill, talent, they have that in spades. And with a lot of other athletes, certainly the ones who had to work really hard to get into those places. However, once they're in that professional realm, there is plenty of talent, plenty of skill and it's mindsets that are going to work to get you through that. I would imagine for some athletes, it's quite difficult for them to accept this idea that now that we're here, we need to open up some new areas that perhaps you haven't been exposed to. Oh yeah, I mean, that's that classic tension that what got you here won't get you there. But what got you here got you here. So it's an orientation, like where do you want to go and who do you want to be? Like answering some really fundamental questions and then doing like a real task analysis, a deep analysis like, okay, so if you want to be this person and go to those places, what's a roadmap to get there? What are the skills and tools that you'll need? And how do you organize your day to day practices, technical practices, physical practices and mental practices to be that man or woman that you want to be to get to the places you want to go. And so that analysis and that, first it starts with like a high performance model, like working from a model. Here's all the available skills, tools and practices and where are we strong? Where do we need some work on? And mapping that up against this vision of the man or woman you want to be and the places you want to go. So let's drill down into confidence as a skill because I know many in our audience have had moments of high confidence and some of us may be having some low confidence currently and many of us have that thought that, oh, you're either born with it or you're not. And how can I train confidence? So hearing just now that it's a skill, let's unpack how someone builds that skill of confidence. Okay, super simple. Let's agree or find a working definition for confidence first and I'll share the way I understand it and then let's have a conversation because it's not necessarily an easy thing. We can read the dictionary from psychology.com but it's a little more nuanced than that in real life. So psychology is state specific meaning that it's something that it's not stable. So there's other things that are stable that sit underneath of it like self-efficacy and self-esteem, those are more stable concepts but self-confidence is more transient and essentially what it is, it's this appraisal. That's a fancy word for it's like you're trying to work out the demand that is coming down the pipe to me, right? This challenge that lies ahead of me. How big is that relative to my skills? How challenged am I going to be relative to the things I am able to do internally? And so if the challenge looks really big and I think I've got some pretty significant skills, I'm good, confident. And so the way it sounds like in somebody's head is, I think I can do this now. And I'm saying that in a way it's not like I can do this. That's like a whole different kind of weird thing because nobody's ever really sure if there's a real challenge that they can get it done. But having that sense like, okay, I think I can get this thing done now. There's a humility in the way I'm saying it as well. So how do you train it? Well, you gotta get good at that appraisal. Gotta get good at figuring out what the real challenge is. And then there's a signal to that challenge. There's a lot of noise around it as well. So the noise around the challenge is like, what will people think of me? Noise around the challenges, but what happens if it doesn't work out? What, what, what, what, what if, what if, what if? All of that is noise to the real challenge, right? And then the other part of that appraisal is, what are my skills? What do I know that I am able to do with great certainty? So where does confidence come from? Self-talk. But that self-talk, which is trainable, has to be grounded in something that is credible. So when you have a skill at the appraisal, you have awareness of your inner dialogue and that inner dialogue is trained to be credible, you gotta, that's how you build this fluid, dynamic thing of confidence. And that credible piece is incredibly important because if you're saying stuff to yourself that you don't believe, that's not built on something rock solid, you know you're full of shit and what else is it gonna take? Just one punch in the mouth, you know? And the whole deck of cards starts to fall apart. And so what you say to yourself has got to be grounded in something that is a bedrock. And that's why we organize our lives to go do hard things. And so there's no hacks, there's no tricks, there's no tips, there's no shortcuts here. It's a fundamental orientation to, you know, organize your life to go do stuff that is difficult and hard to, so you can earn the right to say I can do difficult things. That thing right there, that looks difficult. That's one of my favorite thing in life is to come to terms with the idea that there are no trips, there's no tips, hacks, tricks, all these things, we're gonna put those aside and we're just going to look at things the old fasciaway and we're going to work at them and we're going to suck at them until we get better at them. And it's going to be a grind. But once you accept that idea, it certainly makes it a lot easier and then you can start to figure out, well, since this is the reality of the situation, I now need to find a way to make this fun. And once you start looking at it through that lens, you'd be surprised how that perception changes of now what used to be so incredibly difficult, hard and almost thinking of it as drudgery now becomes something you're waking up for, excited. Flat out and why not have fun? But you know what's not fun? Doing work that lacks purpose. You know, like if you can't figure out the purpose in something, it's really hard to have fun while doing it. So we want to go upstream. We want to help you figure out what your purpose is. And that, no one can give it to you. Nobody can tell you what your purpose in life is. It's got to be meaningful to you. There's a science to this. It's got to be meaningful to you. It's got to be bigger than you and it's got to be down the road, meaning it's future-oriented. And if you don't have a purpose right now, it's okay. You know, spend some time to think about maybe a three-month purpose or a six-month or 60-year purpose. Like you can get your arms around something small right now. There's lots of things going on in our life and in our world to snap into purpose. And so when purpose is big, we can deal with pain. But when purpose is small, pain will eject us right out of doing the difficult things. And so I think purpose is one of the great expanders. I don't even know if that's a word. It's one of the great accelerators for people to really have a flourishing, fulfilling, high-performing life. Now, when we think about confidence, I think of there being two types, general and situational confidence. And I know people who are confident in very specific situations, but generally we'll have an anxiety about them and lack in confidence. Do you see a difference in the development of those two based on the model of confidence we just talked about and building out that skill? The interface for both of those is self-talk, you know? And what allows us to become aware of self-talk is mechanisms to train awareness. And so whether it's situational task specific, if you will, or it's something more general, your levels are met at the dialogue that you have with yourself about yourself and about the task or about the general aspect of how you're organizing your life. So it's still coming down to, you know, this inner narrative that you have. What's wonderful about the inner narrative is you can change it. You can upgrade it. You know, like just because your parents gave you or kids on the block gave you a narrative about yourself as an adult, like this is what's great about being adult. You don't have to buy it anymore. You don't have to swallow that pill. You can completely change it. And that the folks in your community that are wanting to kick ass and get after it and live life with purpose and meaning and slide into home base a little beat up and worn because they've really tasted and experienced, you know, the nuances of life, all the ranges that it has to offer. Shit, now write your inner script. Like get that thing dialed in. And how do you do it? There's three ways. And by the way, this is everything that we do. A coach, Carol, the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. We built an eight week online course to show folks that are not in the Seattle Seahawks how we do it. And this takes time. And I know I'm ripping through it and we're going through it a little too fast. But getting the narrative right, there's three ways. Write some stuff down, journaling, get it out of your head, concretely look at it. It's a forcing function to say what's true and what's not, you know. The second is conversations with wise men and women. Right, being a learner, trying things out, seeing how they see the world as well. And then the third is mindfulness. You know, the practice and the skill of becoming more aware to unlock insights to eventually get to some wisdoms. And so those are the three ways that I've seen incredible beginnings to take action, those three. And when we unpack the mental, I think when it comes to narrative building, self-doubt and fear of failure are present in many of our paths to mastery. And I done some volunteer work with some younger athletes and this comparison culture that is now being created. Whereas in times past, even when I was playing sports, I didn't know what athletes in other cities or other states were doing on the field. But now I get home from practice, I go online and immediately I'm confronted with everyone else's highlight reel. And I'm assuming it's no different for the top elite athletes to compare themselves to others. And we often hear the Kobe's and the Jordan's and they can use that comparison as fuel, but many of us don't find that comparison to be fuel. We find that comparison to be overwhelming. How can we win that battle? That's awesome. Is there's no winning. It's like, get out of that game, you know? And so I asked this question oftentimes, a small part in the selection process for the Seattle Seahawks. It's a, John Schneider, the general manager and his team do an incredible job. You know, it's a nine, 10, 11 month process to understand the men that they're gonna select in the upcoming draft. And so I play a small role in it. But one of the questions I like to understand for folks, I wanna understand their motivations and their drivers. And it's a simple little frame, though, to say like, no, you're trying to be the best or your best. And then we double click underneath that. You know, well, what is it about being your best that stimulates you? What is it about being the best? And people that are trying to be the best, they're gonna run into that comparison trap, right? Cause it's a relative marker about their potential. People that want to be their best, they're self starters. I mean, it's an all in encompassing fundamental organization of life to say, I wanna be my best. So I say, get in that game. It's a much simpler game because then you're saying, okay, relative to what I did today, what's possible tomorrow, next week, a year from now, three years from now. And it's a much simpler game. And then when you see what other people are doing, you can use that because you can't get out of it. But when you do see other people, what they're doing, you can use it as inspiration, not to say, oh, they're doing that shit, I gotta do that. But it's like, oh, look at the angle they took. Oh, look how they're scooping, look how they're, whatever, fill in the blank on the sport, look how they're doing what they're doing. Ah, okay. So that's the game inside the game, get out of it. It sounds like that engine that's driving the performance. And if we're constantly focusing on the comparisons to others, it can be difficult to keep that engine running and motivated. And I think the best coaches in the business act more as a steering wheel. They're not necessarily there, what we think of a traditional classic coach is like turning the engine and jump starting the player. But in actuality, most professional athletes have a high engine. They need to be steered in the right directions to perform to their best. So working with the Seattle Seahawks and especially in the selection process of bringing on athletes to the team, what are those markers that you're looking for from a mental standpoint? Understanding the talent and skill is definitely there because they're already in the pros. Well, they're not in the pros yet. We're selecting whether they're gonna come into the pros. And really what we're looking for is their constitution and makeup. And are they committed to growing, to getting better? Are they really committed to that? Or do they want their instant rewards? Like, I just want the jersey. I just want really what I want. And nobody says it that way. So you gotta really figure out where they're coming from. But we're looking for people that love getting better. So we put them under some duress to figure out when they make the mistake, what is their initial response? And you'll learn so much about somebody. Do you say, oh, can I go again? Or you say, oh, get me out of here. That was awful. So they're revealing their framework. And you know the same thing about yourself too. If you're asked to do something really difficult in front of other people and it's hard, are you just relieved that you figured it out? Or do you love being in the thick of it? Like, yeah, let me see what I got. Like, this is what I'm, yes, this is awesome. Those are the men that we're looking for at the CLC Hawks. And doing some research for this interview, something, there was an idea that came up that I really enjoyed. And I would hope that you can expand on it for us here. And I think would help a lot of our listeners who do strive to be the best in their career, their jobs, and the best of themselves, which is the idea of having your own personal philosophy, this mantra that plays on a loop. So, well, I'm sure you can explain it better, so. Yeah, no, cool. Thanks for bringing that up. So, we're throwing out big words, aren't we? We got confidence, we got efficacy, we've got purpose. You know, like, and these are not light words. These require some heavy lifting to get there. And philosophy is certainly one of those big rocks to get in the container. And so, what is a philosophy? You already have one, whether you know it or not. Because a philosophy are the principles that guide your thoughts, your words, and your actions. And so, if you wanna know your philosophy of what it is right now, you can look out into the world and say, okay, well, what car did I buy or didn't buy? You know, what kind of bicycle did I buy or didn't buy? What kind of jacket do I wear? What kind of clothes do I, what kind of watches do I buy or don't buy? Like, it's already informed the way that you represent yourself. And I don't mean by just material things, but the words you choose as well, the micro expressions. Your philosophy, the lines on your face can reveal your philosophy. Are you more stacked with stuff up here, you know, on your eyebrows, you know, because you're curious and open and interested? Or is it more like frontalis muscles right here between your eyes, because you're squinting a lot? Could be eyes, bad eyesight, you know? Or what are your laugh lines saying about you? So, you have a philosophy. And oftentimes, Einrein, a beautiful philosopher, says that many of us have a junkyard philosophy. So what is a philosophy? It's a set of guiding principles that shape your thoughts, words and actions. It's a set of guiding principles that when you're not sure exactly how to think about something, you bump up against it. So it becomes these guidepost bumpers, if you will, about the way that you want to live your life. And so what does that mean? Well, some of the greatest thinkers and doers in the world, the most influential people in the world, I bet you know their philosophy. Because they were clear about it. Like Dr. King, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., what would you say his philosophy was? Well, you certainly spoke a lot about equality and we're certainly hearing a lot about that now. So simple, isn't it? And he had a pacifist approach, a nonviolent approach. Okay, how about Malcolm X? I would say the same philosophy, but a different way of going about it. That's right, right? So the word, like that's a philosophical approach to life. I'm gonna commit my life towards equality and then there's other little tonal stuff, Mother Teresa, compassion, right? For the suffering, the Dalai Lama, loving kindness, right? All people are suffering, let's live with loving kindness, Jesus. Well, how about love? So like it's really clear when you think about some of the biggest shapers of culture and or global rhythms of humanity that their philosophy was clear because they talked about it everywhere. They thought about it a lot. They acted on it, some got killed for it. And so, you know, what is your philosophy? And so we start there with people and we say, if you want to go to the extraordinary levels of your potential, if you want to get to the frontier of your potential, you're gonna need some guideposts. You're gonna need some clarity of the big things in your life. What do you stand for? What are those unwavering principles? Write that down. Maybe it starts with 20 pages. Can you get it to 20 words? Can you get it down to a sentence or two that you could get out at knife point? That's the way my kooky mind works. Like, cut, is it so crystal clear to me that under duress I can snap right to it and I don't have to memorize it. I'm past that and I'm right about like, yes, this is, these are my principles. And then the most powerful people are able to live in alignment with them in any condition that they meet. That was the part that I enjoyed most about hearing that idea. It's about how you're gonna behave in that duress. And if that philosophy is clear, if it is something that you have been saying, you see it every day, you tell it to yourself that when you're in those moments, you have no choice but to respond into that philosophy. And that's wonderful. Yeah, and we need mental skills to live perfectly or beautifully aligned to our philosophy when the moment has duress. That's where mental skills come to play. It's one thing to say, oh yeah, you know, I'm about love, equality, whatever, whatever, over a glass of wine or a cup of tea, but what about when you're in the face of injustice? What about when you're in an environment where it's easier to critique and criticize than it is to actually being open to listening and learning and loving? So that's why we need mental skills. Awareness is always the key kind of foundation for this inner game. And that's why mindfulness is at the center thread. And then all of the other skills to be able to say, okay, how am I gonna choose my words? Calm, confidence, deep focus, optimism. A last point on that, you mentioned Anne Ran in the junkyard philosophy. Is there a differential between the two, your personal philosophy and what she was referring to as a junkyard philosophy? Love to pull on that with you because that thread's really important because what she was referring to is a junkyard philosophy is this, you know, kind of thrown into a yard of important ideas, you know, as opposed to saying, okay, let me do the work to get to the core, like junkyard, like let me find the gem in there that's really the special vehicle and shine that thing up and then commit to that being a core philosophical approach to life. Many of us don't even realize the philosophies that we've picked up from others and haven't taken the time to interrogate them. And I think what has happened in this opportunity of us going through a pandemic and having all of this uncertainty is many of us have had to face our philosophies and our principles because we've been under duress and we may have realized that some of them have been junkyard items that don't really serve us. Now, that can be traumatizing when you start to push back on some of these philosophies and start to question them and realize that they aren't a good fit for you. And if you're in that situation right now where this time of being internal, being in home, questioning, what's going on in the world around you and you've realized, hey, I got some clunkers in my front yard. I got some philosophy that I don't want here and I would love to create the Elon Musk Zen garden of philosophy. How does one go about pruning and figuring out which of these philosophies to carry forward out of this pandemic? Ah, that's good. This is the deep work. This is part of what has attracted me to the field of psychology is that there's no seven steps here and there's no easy process. Like you've got to do the heavy lifting to look within and to say, okay, and you could start with something like this. Of all the words in my native tongue, what are the words that matter most to me? Start with that. You might want to start with something like, well, who are the people that really are so switched on that they're so compelling the way they've organized their life? Who are those people? Okay, what did they stand for? Now you're looking at some words that you like. You're looking at the people that you got this vibe with. You're looking at what you think they stood for what their philosophy or philosophies were. And then maybe some songs and poetry that like lines that you think about all the time, they've got some sort of meaning to you and you sketch that out and then just start writing or maybe circling words or phrases and then use a forcing function like if you had 20 words and it was a sentence, what would the sentence be? It was two sentences. What would those two sentences be? And this is a bit of a daunting task because it's like, well, how do I know what's right? When you say it, does your hair stand up? Does your heart skip a beat? Does it feel like when you say it out loud, it's true, it's pure. The first time I did this exercise and by the way, this is again, it's in the book that Coach and I just were so stoked to talk about our book, like it's coming out or by the time this drops, it'll be out in just a couple of weeks. But this is, we spent so much time like helping people get through their philosophy, you know, like what is it? And I just wanna say that it's some of the most deep and important work because once you know who you are, nobody can take it away from you. When we talk about freedom, it's unbelievable. Again, with this realization that we've been carrying this junkyard of philosophies, prioritization is also a key part of this. And it's not only understanding and interrogating, but it's also refining because you can't carry all that weight of all of those different philosophies and be as effective, efficient, and as high performing as we want. So how does one go about prioritizing? I love that forcing function of the 20 words, but I know many in our audience, they were gonna end up with 30 words and they love adding on and I've been just as guilty myself. So that's why I'm smiling when I say that. You know, I would go back to that litmus test, like could you get it out of under duress? You know, is it that crisp? And so one or two words, I can probably get those out 20 to 30. I'm not so sure that it's gonna be real, you know, like it might be eloquent and prose and like, but I'm not sure I can get those things out. And the awesome thing about philosophy and doing this internal work, you know, and having the tuning fork of authenticity be your calibrating mechanism is that the first time I did this work, I said it out loud, my philosophy, and I had to read it. So it wasn't part of my DNA yet. And I was reading it out loud in front of some other folks. And I was like, I didn't even get to the end of it. And I was like, damn, that's what my dad wanted me to be. Those are the philosophies of my dad. I gotta do, wait, hold on, I can't even finish this right now. Cause as I was writing it, I was consumed with like the approvals of others and what the important people in my life wanted it to be. And so you'll know when it's right, when it's true, you just will know it. And also I'll just say this, the 11 world religions has spent a lot of time on philosophy. There's some good ones you can borrow, you know, if you want to make it your own because we're in this age of individualization and you know, whatever, you can do that too. Like, but just, just get really clear. When we're on this path to mastery and I'll use the analogy of my golf game, very often you will find conflicting advice, advice that works for someone and then someone else who's also incredible at whatever path of mastery you're choosing is saying something completely the opposite and contradictory. And I feel at times, especially in our audience, we're trying to find as many bits of information just to absorb everything. And when we're confronted with that conflicting advice, it can lead us to freeze, to not take action and to even give up. What is your advice for sorting through conflicting advice on that journey to mastery? This is an important question. And the reason it's important because you're getting at the nature of science. And so science, the investigation of science is repeated experiments. You've got an idea of what you think something could be and then you repeat experiences, I'm sorry, experiments until you get to what is true. And now what's unique about the application of science is that the individual might be different in the working world as opposed to the laboratory world. So there is some nuances. So the first thing I do is like, is this grounded in science? I'll just go first pass. Is what is being said grounded in science? Okay, if that stands up, cool. And then if I've got two conflicting pieces of information that are grounded in science, then what do I do? Well, why don't I try them out? Why don't I see which one fits better for me? And if one is not grounded in science, but it authentically works, well, maybe there's a new, you're adding to the body of science in that way. And so I'm not afraid to tinker, to experiment. I want to be grounded in something that's been tried and true, from a scientific standpoint. And innovations need to happen in a human experience because we are not statistics. Those are numbers, we're not math. Those are numbers, we're not, whatever, we're not, we don't live in inside what's it called, laboratories. So that's where I start. You used a word, authentic, which is widely used. Everyone wants to live authentically and it has all of its benefits and it sounds amazing and it allows you to feel good. However, when you're working with athletes, there's an authentic to what's going on now and an authentic of what they're trying to grow into be, which all of us have some relation to, right? Where we're young, we're growing, we're gonna be changing. There's somebody that we're looking to grow into our better version of ourselves. Do you have any tips to let go of where we are in order to be authentic of who we want to become? Awesome, good nuance that you guys are picking up here. And the way that I think about it is that I'm not so sure that everybody wants to be authentic, but I think that that's a really cool thought. I think most people, if we could somehow externalize the way that they think on a regular basis, are really looking for approval. They're looking for some sort of validation that they're okay. And so that they do these little things for approval as opposed to authenticity. So I would start the conversation there, but let's assume that your community, that you guys and all three of us here are committed to authenticity. Okay, what does that mean? It means that you're, I'm gonna go back to principles. It means that you understand the principles that matter most to you and you're able to be about them when it's hard to be about them. So that's where I go. I don't think about my up version. I don't think about that way because the way I think about it is there's a part in me and there's an ancient wisdom I wanna share. The part within you that water cannot wet, wind cannot blow and fire cannot burn. That part that has always been you, that that part is the part that I'm working to express from. And so that doesn't mean that that part is mutated when I can hammer faster or I can saw quicker or more accurately. I'm talking about coming from that core place that is almost inescapable, that's not the right word, almost indescribable that place, that is authenticity. And then the next kind of outer layer of that are the principles to help reflect that part. And then we need on top of that mental skills so that we can be about it when it's hard to be about it. So that's kind of like the pebble in the pond analogy works here and you are the pebble in the pond. And there's this concentric extension that takes place. Now let's dive back into the Pacific Ocean and think about- Can I interrupt you real quick? Your guys' voices are unbelievable. Oh my God, I've had this thought in the back of my mind, like every time each of you speak, I'm like, I didn't wanna interrupt you because your questions are so good but it's like your voices are so distinct and crisp and grounded. Do you mind leaving that in an iTunes review for us? That would go a long way. Thank you for that. Flattery, Flattery will get you everywhere with us, sir. That's awesome. Diving back into the Pacific Ocean and thinking about the lessons that your experience and your studies in psychology have now allowed you to perform. So we talked to the very start about what drew you to performance and sports psychology and what are these lessons for you personally been along the way to unlock that performance because I know everyone in our audience has their own Pacific Ocean moment where they just can't seem to break through to still down some lessons for our audience that they can potentially make actionable as we wrap this up. Oh, awesome. I wanna share a story. So I couldn't surf at a young age when others were watching. I had the abilities to do it but my mind was so constricted with the noise of what others might be thinking of me. Okay, so I've come to learn that one of the great fears for humans, one of the great constrictors of human potential is FOPO, fear of people's opinions. And so I think we need to work from that place. What are your fears? What are your guiding principles? Examine those, write those down, be clear about what they are, then run to the edges of your capacity on a day-to-day basis. Your physical capacity, your technical capacity and your emotional capacity. The one that's about emotions is really great because that's always available, right? So run to the edges every day to figure out, like, okay, what do I need to get better at tomorrow? And then if you can do that and live in alignment with the principles that matter most to you, you've really got something special. So when I was 15, I couldn't do it. It was, I think it was about, probably 18 months ago, I did an Ultra. And it was an ocean Ultra. And so it was a stand-up paddle. It was 30 plus miles. About 20 people had done this stand-up paddle from Catalina Island to Hermosa Beach. And there's lots of people that do it on different devices, but standing it is kind of a unique challenge. And so I completely, it was mile 26 and I was hallucinating. I was completely wrong on my nutrition plan. I got caught in a 3.2 mile an hour current and all I had in me was 3.2 miles an hour. So I stood still for 47 minutes. And what I realized what broke open for me in that moment is when purpose is bigger than pain, purpose wins. And my purpose was clear, you know? Like I needed to get in touch with that part of me that was locked away, that part I was afraid to get lost in wild, you know? Like I was in the middle of the ocean with nothing left hallucinating. And that was the lightning bolt experience that happened for me. So I want to share that with you. And my purpose, though, was not about me just finding myself. My purpose was about being a great dad, a great husband, a great community member. And so when I got to the beach, the people on the beach that were waiting for me that I ended up being three hours late for with very little comms, they were driving me. And so it was a completely different experience. There was this incredible freedom I had on the other side. And I had zero concern or care about what they thought of me but I couldn't wait to be in service of them. So know the person you want to be. Understand your fears. Run to the edges of your fears daily and do it again and again and again. And when you understand your purpose, it will be about something bigger and greater than you. And that typically happened, that typically is about being in service to others. So I want to say thank you guys, you know? And this is the life passion of mine. And I don't know where I would be. And if I didn't train my mind and I don't know where many of the athletes that have taught me so much and the science that I've been able to stand on the shoulders, I wouldn't be informed if I didn't have those two great teachers. So I want to say thank you guys. Thank you. This is really exciting to finally talk about performance. It's a topic that I feel a lot of our listeners and clients struggle with. And we focus so much on the science of communication and connection and not enough on performance. And we really went deep in this episode and I really appreciate it. Now, the new book is out. What is the name? Where can we find it? We're really excited to check it out. Thanks, mate. It's called Compete to Create. It's also the name of our company. Coach Carol and I formed about five years ago. I love the title. Oh, do you? Yeah, we are not marketing people. It's really funny how this came to be is that we were on a whiteboard up at the training center. Just it was off hours, banging our head up against the wall. Like, what do we call this thing? And so finally, we stripped it down. Like, Coach's core philosophy is always compete to be the greatest dad that he can be, the greatest coach he can be, the greatest friend he can be, the greatest business partner he can be. So that's his core philosophy. And my core philosophy is every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece. And so we go, create to compete. No, compete to create. Compete and compete to create. And so we're like, yeah, okay. You know, it's our DNA. Like, let's try it. And so it really is like, how to work your ass off to create a living masterpiece? Well, I think every one of us have sports moments that have been etched into our brains from all of our favorite sports teams. And those moments are some divine works of art for all of us. And we, every time we touch a football or go up to the hoop, we have those moments where we yell Kobe or where the catch is the lens swan catching in the Super Bowl. And we all live those moments over and over again. Isn't our imagination fascinating? That too is a skill. You know, let's use our imagination to facilitate experiences that give us free looks. That's what imagination and performance imagery is a free look on how it could be. And I'll tell you, some of the best in the world spent a lot of time in a disciplined way, imagining a future that has not yet existed to play out in the way that it is a beautiful experience for them. Now we love to end every episode with a challenge for our audience. And of course, through our questions, we hope we gave you a taste of who's listening to the show. What is a challenge that they could go at this week to gain some wisdom, to unlock their philosophy and peak performance? First order business will start in what I would say a simple way but not easy to do is to get quiet and meditate. You know, spend a disciplined amount of time to refocus your mind on one thing. And if we just started super simple and we said, and we follow good science, good science says eight minutes is where you start to get some real changes over time. 20 minutes is more optimal. If you set a timer for eight minutes and you said in a clear intention or a commitment to follow one part of your breath relentlessly. So follow the inhale with all of your essence and then follow your exhale with all of your essence. And you did that repeatedly over and over again and on breath, one and a half, your mind begins to wander. That's how it works. That you just gently refocus to what? The inhale or the exhale and then you pop out before you finish the exhale. Okay, no problem, refocus. And it's the art of starting over a thousand times. I would start there. And if you have a mind from this practice, I would now move into anchoring in your philosophy. What are the guiding principles? And I would start, those are two foundational experiences. And if anyone wants to kind of hit me on social, let me know how they're doing. I'll coach them from there if it's fun. And I'd love to support your community that way as well. Beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Javeh. You guys are awesome. I've enjoyed this a lot. Thank you very much. Be free.