 Welcome to the first campus conversation of the spring semester. I'm serving as pinch-hitter for my colleague Dan Moguloff. I'm Rokey Montez, Executive Director of Communications and Media Relations within Public Affairs. I'm joined by two amazing guests this afternoon, who I will introduce shortly, but one quick program note, and that is to say that campus conversation is designed for you all to hear from and engage with some of the top university leaders around campus. Having said that, you'll find on your chairs, index cards, and pencils, please feel free to jot down your questions, raise your hands, and the student ambassadors will collect them, funnel them to me, and I will put them to the guests who I will now introduce, and I should probably put my glasses on. A mainstay on the Golden Bear bench for over a decade, Sharmin Smith was named head coach of the Cal women's basketball team June 21st, 2019. Smith becomes the 10th head coach in Cal women's basketball history after spending the last 12 seasons as an assistant on the Golden Bear staff, including serving as the program's Associate Head Coach since 2012. Cal has had 10 21 seasons and made nine trips to the NCAA tournament since Smith's arrival in Berkeley in 2007, highlighted by the program's first trip to the final four in 2013. Highly regarded throughout the coaching ranks at both the collegiate and professional levels, Smith has played a key role in building Cal into one of the premier programs on the West Coast, handling duties from recruiting and scheduling, to alumni engagement, and campus equity and inclusion. She has served on the women's basketball coaches Association Board of Directors and was hired in April 2019 to serve as an assistant coach for the WNBA's New York Liberty. A St. Louis native, Smith was a star player for Stanford from 1993 to 97, helping the Cardinal to three NCAA final fours and three Pac-10 titles. A four-year letter winner at Stanford, she earned her bachelor's and master's degrees in civil and environmental engineering from the school. Following her collegiate playing career, Smith joined the professional ranks in the ABL from 1997 to 1998 as a member of the Portland Power and played three years in the WNBA along with one year in the Swedish basketball league. She began her coaching career in 2003 as an assistant coach at Boston College, where she spent one season before joining Tara Van De Veer's coaching staff at Stanford. After three years, Smith left the farm for Berkeley and joined the Golden Bear staff for the 2007-2008 season. Welcome. Mark Fox, a veteran coach who guided teams at Nevada and Georgia to multiple post-season burst during the course of his career was named the men's basketball coach, head basketball coach at Cal on March 29, 2019. Fox compiled a 123-43 record in five seasons leading Nevada from 2005 to 2009, a run that included four conference championships, three invitations to the NCAA tournament, and two trips to the CBI tournament. He later served as head coach at Georgia for nine seasons from 2010 to 2018 and amassed a 163-133 mark, leading the Bulldogs to a pair of NCAA tournaments and three national invitation tournaments. With a career record of 286-176, he has averaged more than 20 wins per season over 14 years. Outside of coaching, Fox is a former chair of the NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committee and member of the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Ethics Coalition. He's also raised nearly $1 million for coaches versus cancer. Fox played collegiately at Garden City Community College in Kansas on the former Nevada head coach, Jim Carrey, and then lettered two seasons at Eastern New Mexico where he was a first-team academic all-conference selection in 1991. Fox earned his bachelor's degree in physical education from Eastern New Mexico in 1991, and a master's degree in sports administration, sports psychology from Kansas in 1996. Originally from Garden City, Kansas, he and his wife, Cindy, have two children, Parker and Olivia. Welcome, coach. Thank you. So why don't we jump right in? Coach Smith, you've been on campus for some time, but new in your role, and Coach Fox, obviously, new in your role. Can you talk about some of the early observations that you've seen, aha moments, learning moments in the last, oh, say just under a year or so here? Being that you're really new, I think you should take out first. Well, obviously, Coach Smith has been there for over a decade, so she knows her way around campus and I'm still trying to figure out where to park, but there's been a lot of, there's a lot of new things, a lot of newness in my life right now, and this is a wonderful place. It's a complex place as most of us know, but we've gone off to a great start, but certainly as you come to someplace new and you uncover, I like to say this, usually when you have a job interview, they tell you how great it is, and then on the first couple of days, they tell you all the problems, and then you try and figure out how to make it all work, but in my conversations with Jim Nolton, our athletic director before I came, he was very candid about our situation, and so there haven't been a lot of curveballs since I arrived, just lots of work to be done. Both? It's just been really great, the amount of support and excitement that I've felt from people with my return. I didn't necessarily expect it, and I'm just really appreciative that people have made me feel really welcome coming back and being here at Cal. That's fantastic. So let's talk about priorities, right? I'll start with you, Coach Smith, the program in the last few years, let's just be candid, because we're gonna be candid here in this conversation all among family, has struggled a little bit. Talk about what the priorities are for you moving forward. There's a lot of days I wake up and wish I was Coach Smith. Sorry. But there's no secret, the program has struggled. I mean, the one thing about in athletics, I mean, there's measurables, and we had the two worst seasons in the history of our university, and so obviously we're starting from ground zero and we have to build forward. And for me, it's about a daily investment in doing things the right way, but there's a lot of things obviously to sell. There's a great foundation here starting with just a world-class university. And that's the first thing that we tell every recruit, is that this is the number one institution in the world. And I have a very good friend of mine who's a toilet salesman. And he told me when I took the job, he says, you need to buy a globe. And I said, what do you mean? He says, listen, he says, everyone has to go to the bathroom. So my sales are easy. He says, your sales gonna be hard because your program has struggled. He says, buy a globe and put it in the center of your conference room. And so when you meet with a kid and his family, you can say, listen, pick any spot in the world and there's not a better school. And so I did, I bought a globe and it's in our conference room. And that's great advice from someone who sells what he sells. That's an interesting friends coach. Okay. Kelly McElhaney from the hospice of school was just speaking and I was listening to her. She said, go through your personal board of directors and list the eight or 10 people that you go to for counsel. And then after you list those people, look at all the different characteristics of those people and are they all like you or are they different? And every one of mine were different. And so I felt fortunate that I was, when she said that's what she said as ideal, I felt fortunate that that's what I have in my life. But I do have a lot of good people that can give me advice. Absolutely. Coach May? You know, we've had some success in the past but it definitely is a point in our program right now where we are reloading so to speak and in some ways building things from scratch. We lost four starters and our six player. You know, just on Sunday against Oregon, a top team in the country, I had one player in the game that has played significant minutes before. So we are a really young group and a very inexperienced group and it has been a ton of fun because we are a group that's committed to one another and we're a group that understands the value of being at Cal and what that means. And you know, to Coach's point, it's building on that and having people who want to be at the number one public institution in the world and want to be a part of your culture and what you're building. And that's what we're doing right now, just finding people who are willing to buy into what it is that we're building. So let's talk about that a little bit. You called it reloading and I'm guessing you're talking about recruitment on some level. So can we talk a little bit about what goes into that process? Because quite frankly, to come to Cal and play we're not specifically focused on all athletics. This is about academics as well. So what does that ideal recruit look like? If you can't find the recruit that values the degree, it's not going to turn out well. They have to understand that this is a place that's about academic excellence and we provide the academic resources and support for our student athletes to be successful but they have to want to be a student athlete and not just an athlete. And if we don't have that match, then it's not a good fit and we move on for sure. Well, I think this is a life changing place and obviously the student athletes that we recruit to come here have to be able to look further down the line than just the next four, five, six, seven years of their life in our sport. So many kids are of the belief that they're going to make money playing professional basketball and it was social media. They can all make themselves famous in their own little galaxy. And we have to have young people who understand that even if that part of their life comes true, that there's 30 or 40 years of something else and our responsibility is to prepare them for that something else. And in Berkeley, they have to understand that that's part of the deal. And fortunately, I think my values align with what this campus stands for. And if we can find kids that buy into that, then we'll have some success stories. Okay, so a question from the audience and it sort of builds on the responses from both of you coaches. And it is, what is your advice for young scholar athletes aspiring to compete at the collegiate level at a place like UC Berkeley? Well, I would say that my advice for someone that wants to compete at UC Berkeley is that competition has no prejudice. It doesn't care that we're playing for a cow or that you're playing for whatever school. When the scoreboard turns on, competition has no prejudice. It doesn't care what color you are, what religion you are. There's no prejudice in competition. And so I think my advice to them would be that in preparation for competition, you have to do everything humanly possible to give yourself the best chance to be successful because it's all the work that's done prior to that scoreboard coming on that often separates who's successful and who's not. Okay, following up on an earlier question, please describe your recruiting philosophy. How does it change here at Cal? In my coaching experience, I've been at high academic institutions so that there hasn't been much of a shift and you'll always find me coaching at high academic institutions because that's something that I value. I feel like if I'm coaching young women, we need to be preparing them for life after their sport while Mark's young men can make millions and millions of dollars if they happen to play professional basketball. We've seen the struggles of WNBA players trying to get the salary increases and having to go to Russia and China and South Korea in order to make money. And I don't think that anyone should rely on that. So the focus in recruiting is making sure that they understand we're preparing you for what's going to come after Cal and this degree sets you up for that in a way that you can't even imagine. And I speak to the recruits in terms of my own personal experience, right? Having a degree from Stanford has definitely impacted my life in a very positive way. And I think a Cal degree has that same type of impact. So we're looking for those student athletes that understand that and want that and then have the commitment and the drive and the skill set and the talent to help us compete in the Pac-12 and get to that national level where we were winning championships. Can you talk a little bit about the value that intercollegiate athletics brings to Berkeley? Well, Coach Smith has been here longer than I, so she may have a better understanding of the environment. I know when I was hired, I had an initial press conference and right before the press conference, I was educated on when to use the phrase Cal and when to use the term UC Berkeley. And I still, I mean, I had to go to junior college, so I don't know if I'm smart enough to understand it, but my own personal opinion is I don't understand why it's perceived to be two different places. This is one university. And the first thing that we tell any student athlete that's on our team or that we're recruiting is that this is the number one institution in the world. And we use that to our advantage. And I think that the sense of community within a university is, I mean, communities were about being representing one place. And so I think that when done right, when done right, that athletics can enhance a university and it can bring a sense of great community. It can bring great publicity. It can bring notoriety to things other than your athletic teams if it's done right. And the important thing is that we have to do it right. And I think that as I get to know life in Berkeley, I think there's a lot of coaches across our athletic department that are doing it right. And if we can have the success that we want to have, that on a national stage, I think it can really be a benefit to the school. So I have a question here that specifically says, should your athletes get paid and why or why not? But before I go into that sort of specific focus, let's take a step back and talk about the sort of momentous change that the NCAA ruled in, I guess it was late October that essentially said that athletes, and I'll quote here unanimously are permitted to, students are permitted to participate in athletics, the opportunity to benefit from the use of their name, image and likeness in a manner consistent with the collegiate model. Let's talk first about the implications of that. Obviously, actually the NCAA is meeting in Anaheim of all places this week. I don't think that there is going to be a vote this week, but in fact, they're still collecting information as I understand it through April or so. So we're still a couple of months off before there's anything concrete and maybe still further than that. But I'm just curious to hear upon hearing that news, what are the implications for a D1 school like Cal as this rolls forward? All right, I'll take it. I'll let her, I'm gonna talk to her because I got to comment that too little. Go ahead, Coach. I think there are a ton of implications and you can look at this a number of ways. Should student athletes get paid? Well, some might argue our student athletes are in full scholarship. Aren't they getting paid in some ways with that? I think the NCAA has made great strides in helping student athletes and understanding that just paying for a place to live and my tuition doesn't necessarily mean that I can survive at an institution. And so if any of you have watched the Fab Five documentary, this is where a lot of this stems from, that those student athletes were, they had a scholarship but they didn't have money to get food or go see a movie or do something like that outside of what was given to pay for being at that institution. And so we've developed the cost of attendance that's added to the scholarship that takes into consideration. Yes, people need to be able to have enough money to eat and maybe have money to fly home and see their family and such. So we've made some strides with that. When we talk about name, image and likeness, I think it's different depending on what sport you coach. So football players being able to sell their jersey and make money off of that is different than my student athlete just wanting to post on social media, hey, I'm a Cal basketball player and if your kid wants basketball lessons for $30 a session, I'd be open to teaching your young kid how to play basketball. So there are a lot of different things that you can't just lump into one category. Right now, my student athlete couldn't do that and a football player can't make money off of his jersey. Which one are we trying to allow to happen right now? And if we're going with the whole whammy with it and then we have to address how it affects individual sports. So who's paying for it? If we're now saying that athletic institutions are going to be competing for recruits by saying we will provide this amount of money if you come play for us, we'll provide this amount of money will we know at Cal, we're gonna be in trouble. So there are a lot of things that need to be discussed, need to be worked through as a coach of a female sport. If athletics is now giving more money to football, that's not gonna come to women's basketball or women's sports, are we eliminating smaller men's sports in order to account for Title IX, right? Out of the 100 professional athletes right now, highest paid, 100 highest paid athletes, how many are female? One, Serena, Serena, that's it. So I just think there's a lot of discussion that still needs to be had around what the intentions are, what are we exactly trying to accomplish, and then what are the repercussions of doing those things? Thank you. Coach Vox. She made a lot of great points and I would just add that with name, image, and likeness, you know, it's the kind of worms that we don't quite know what kind of worms are inside. And I think that having some level of consistency from state to state was gonna be important. There's a lot of states that have introduced new laws that are gonna make this, I think, possible. But if our state has a law that's restrictive in one way and our competitor has one that's maybe less restrictive, it can provide an advantage for that schools in that state. I think the other thing to look at, too, is that as we're trying to stay away, and I fully support us trying to make sure that we maximize what these kids can get. But we're not becoming professional sport, but unless this is managed just right, we're gonna enter the professional sports world. And there's some, you know, in my previous life, I coached in a league where there's some states with no professional sports. And so who are companies in those states gonna go to for endorsements if there's not the Oakland A's and the San Francisco Giants and the Warriors and the 49ers and everybody else? They're gonna go to the college kids. And so I think it has to be, you know, regulated might be a little bit of a strong word, but there has to be some consistency on how this is implemented once it comes to fruition because I think it could really tilt the competitive balance in college athletics. And I think that we have to, in professional sports, you know, there's, you know, it's not everybody, you know, everybody gets the same. You know, it's just not how it is. And there's a reason that the best players make the most money. And if we provide some leeway in the, without the right guidelines, the name, image, and likeness, then I think we're gonna change the entire landscape of college athletics. Is that a bad thing? I think overturning the apple cart could be a very dangerous thing for everybody because I think once it's upside down, we're gonna lose the opportunity to educate so many kids. And we have to make sure that this is implemented correctly. And I'm not sure correctly is the right word. There has to be an appropriate way for this progress to be made. Thank you. Coach Smith, I can't have you on the stage here and not talk about gender inequity. I just read recently about the union in WNBA, which of course you played in and coach for a bit with the New York Liberty. Finally, decided that they should perhaps raise salaries for the players in addition to offering other opportunities for them to not only make money, but lifestyle. We heard about, was it Skyler Diggins who played essentially the entire season pregnant because she didn't get support from her team. We've heard many of the players talk about their paltry salaries. Can I sort of pick your brain a little bit about what you're telling your student athletes who may or may not be interested in aspiring to the WNBA and what that looks like and really what your sort of message is overall not only for the athletes, but for students here because you both represent the campus in that way. What are the messages you're telling them around gender equality or lack thereof and the spaces that you are? I think we have a long way to go towards gender equality in our nation. I think we know this. I'm really proud of what the WNBA players were able to do with the collective bargaining agreement. I think there are some great steps forward with that. Proud of Elijah Clarendon as being a part of that group. And we also have, we're also realistic and we understand that LeBron James is making a lot more money than Elena Deladon or Sue Byrd. And I don't think that there's a WNBA player that thinks they should be making as much as LeBron James. And I think somehow sometimes there's a disconnect and people don't understand what Neko Gumikay and Elijah Clarendon in that group are actually fighting for. And it's more the things that you talked about. If we're traveling for a playoff game, are we commercial and we're economy where Neko's knees are up against the seat and she has to travel day of? Or are we making accommodations so that we can put the best product on the floor so that we can have a better fan base and we can have more revenue coming into support the sport. And so those are the things that I think we're really addressing the collective bargaining agreement in addition to increasing salaries. Any thoughts on that? Coach Fox. You know, she mentioned airline travel. I mean, as a taller person, you know, it's seat 37F is not very comfortable for me. It's not gonna be comfortable for a 6'6 women's player or a 6'10 men's player, but there's still a lot of work obviously to be done in that area. How are we ensuring our student athletes reach their academic aspirations? How are we balancing school, life, athletic life? What does that look like? I think that starts in the recruiting process. You know, it's the first thing that I tell the young women that I speak to on the phone. Hey, this is no more in public institution. Like that's a great thing, right? You get to set yourself up to have the best of both worlds. And when you're here, we're gonna support you completely so that you can be successful. I'm really proud of where we stand academically right now. We just had our best academic semester in the past 13 years. And it's what we're going to emphasize. This is the most important thing for a young woman. The WNBA is phenomenal. I played in the league. I love that experience, but it is not the number one priority. As Mark mentioned, those 30 years after is what you have to be concerned with and that's why this degree is so important. You know, I think this too, and athletes are different in this way. Is that the demands that they have to deal with are different than a normal student in some ways. I think with coaches sport and my sport, the one thing that our kids encounter is that they have to travel both semesters and have to travel in the middle of the week. And so there's miss class time that's required. And it's challenging and the amount of energy that they put in to their sport is high. So I think our responsibility to them to provide unbelievable support so they can be successful is critical because they came to become educated young people and we have to help them do that. And sometimes just by the nature of the sport, it's harder because they're gonna miss some class that they wouldn't miss if they were a non-athlete. And so I think it's our responsibility to provide as much support in that area as we can and try and be extremely organized about our approach. And I think it's an area where we can always be better. And for those who do aspire to the NBA and actually you, Sharmin, in a previous conversation you shared with me that women have to go to college for a couple of years or at least be a certain age before they can enter the NBA. But for men that's a little different. Should college, I guess is the question, should college be a requirement before entering either the NBA and most certainly, obviously, the WBA? Yeah, I don't think it's fair for us to say to somebody that you have to go to college for one year or three years before you can have a right to make money with your talents. I think that's an individual decision. I think that decision has to be made with great education. And I think oftentimes there's kids that leave school early that don't have the proper education on what the reality of the situation may be. Obviously in basketball right now there's the rule called the one and done that's getting ready to be eliminated. Which means some kids will be allowed to go out of high school. That also means some kids may come to college for one year and leave. So you're still gonna have potentially some one and done players. I think that you have to find young people that are committed to becoming educated. Because I just actually had a young man speak to our team the other night who had played for me for two years at Georgia. Now he's playing for the Lakers and he had two years of college education and two years is not four. But he chose to leave early and he's made millions of dollars and he said to our team that I need to finish my education. And here's a guy that's had a lot of success on the court. And so I think that as you look at the one and done world you have to find young people that understand the value of education. And we have to do a great job selling the value of becoming educated. And I think that's an area where in society in general universities have to do a better job marketing just the value of becoming a college educated individual. How many of those players who I'm sorry. I just think it's important that we're careful not to judge student athletes in a different way than we judge other students. Because there are a lot of people who don't finish college and they go on to own companies that are extremely successful. They have startups and other ways in which they are going to navigate through the world that doesn't necessarily include four years at a college institution. And I don't see the same judgment place there. So I just think we need to really check ourselves and be mindful to that. That your response actually almost negates my next question which is fine. Which is how many of those students who do leave after a year or so. How often are they coming back and are there processes in place here to make that easy or accessible? I know for our program any woman who does not have their degree and needs to come back and get it we want to fully support them in any way possible. Because it is extremely important. I do think those decisions have to be made by that individual and their support group. Because we don't understand everyone's financial situation, their family situation. We don't know necessarily what goes into the types of decisions that people have to make. And I know I want everyone to get that degree. That's really important to me. But you know that might not be the best thing for someone in Mark's program. I think that we do provide the opportunity for these young men to come back and finish their education which is our responsibility to them. And I think it's a wonderful thing that we do. And obviously every situation is unique. You also don't know when a kid's thinking about leaving the crystal ball is okay, how much money will you make? Will you even be successful? And if you do make it, how much money will you make? And so obviously allowing those that leave the opportunity to come back I think is certainly important. A couple questions from the audience. How do you take a group of high school superstars and make them a cohesive team ego? And then by the way, Sharmin, always love your shoes. Are you looking at me? You know, I think that you have to, you have to, you know, every individual that we recruit usually was the best player on their high school team or some team that they were on prior to. And you have to get them to buy into the cause of something bigger than themselves. And oftentimes that's harder than they want it to be. Oftentimes some of the people in their ear don't really realize that they're no longer the star. But as people's roles change, I try to educate them on the fact that everybody's role may be of a different size, but everybody has value. Everybody has value. And they have to, I think if you can get them to understand that it makes that transition easier. But it's certainly one of the great challenges of coaching a team sport is getting every member of the team to sacrifice for the cause of the team. Okay, in what ways are sports psychologists used in women's and men's basketball? I think it's becoming, you know, more and more popular. It's a necessity for our program. We have a sports psychologist that spends a lot of time with the team and is available for our student athletes whenever they need. You know, it's just, it's difficult being 18 to 22 year olds, you know, at times. And there's a lot that they're trying to navigate and they don't always know how to deal with everything. And I encourage my student athletes to reach out and speak to a sports psychologist or even a psychologist in general, depending on what's going on. Whether it's dealing with sports performance issues, I was the star, now I don't play. Or, you know, sometimes it's just, I'm trying to cope with being away from home and having a lot of things that I've never had to feel before in this new environment and how do I handle all of that? And our philosophy is we provide the resources, we make sure they have the access, and we normalize all of that so that they don't feel as though there's something different or something wrong with them if they have to ask for help. Mental health has come to a forefront of just how it was ignored for many years. And I think the one thing that we've tried to do with our team, I have a master's degree in sports psychology. And as I was going through the course load, I kept thinking back to my high school coach and all the things that he did, and I thought, was he a coach or was he a sports psychologist? Because he essentially wore both hats. And I think we do wear a lot of those hats as coaches, but there are also issues whether it be in sports specific or just their personal lives where outside help is necessary. And that's one of the great things about Cal is that we have great resources and encourage that. What does a day in life of a student athlete at Cal look like? It's very busy. You know, for our student athletes getting up in the morning, we try to encourage them to get something in their stomach so that they're ready to go when it comes time for practice, but taking care of their classes in the morning, then arriving early for treatment rehab with sports performance or athletic trainer. Then the three hours of commitment to us on the court or in the film room and then their rehab or treatment following those three hours and then back to maybe another class that they have in the evening to then their tutor sessions at night and then prepping for the next day. So it's a full day and they make sacrifices to be a student athlete in order to do it at a high level. What kind of sacrifices? You know, we talk about the academic, the athletic, the social. Like sometimes you can't have all three of them at once. So there might be periods in which during the season they're not as social as they'd like to be, right? Because you never want to compromise the academics and we hope that they're showing up as best they can for us athletically. So sometimes it's like I hang out with my teammates, you know, and I have some time and I don't know what they do. Face time with mom and friends and such and then it's time for bed. And we'll see you after this big weekend. We'll catch up on a day off, but their weeks are really, really full during the season and that's the coach boxes point. Like basketball, it's both semesters. It's not just one semester. You're in season for pretty much the whole academic year and what they do is really impressive and they're very special individuals to be able to succeed as a student athlete. I met this morning with a young man who just to review his daily schedule for the week and as we were preparing to do this yesterday, one of my young staff members had put together a calendar and this is when your study hall is, this is when this class is, this is when tutoring is and I said, well, you've left one thing out and he says, what's that? I said, you know, he has to eat at some point. I mean, he has to eat and so life as a student athlete is I tell our team, you really have time for two things. You have time to be a student and you have time to, if you wanna be excellent, to be a player and there's a lot of sacrifice that goes into it and I think that it's a very demanding endeavor for these young people to play basketball in the Pac-12 and to be students here, it's a very demanding endeavor and we have to be aware as the leaders of these young people to build in time for that they get proper sleep, which is one of the first things that they sacrifice to make sure that they eat correctly and that they also have time to decompress because that's important in their mental health to be able to succeed in the classroom or as an athlete is that they have time to decompress. Finding that time often means sacrificing some of our time just to make sure we have some balance. Thank you. Speaking of leadership, I've got a question from the floor. A lot of times managers are asked to look to coaches for tips on how to inspire and unite people. To that end, what's your advice to those of us who do lead people, but not on a court? You know, I'd like to tell you one little quick story. Years ago, I was, I played a game as a last home game of the regular season and we were playing the University of Kentucky, who was undefeated and they were trying to become the first team that was undefeated in like 40 years and so I just, I got the phone number for the former Super Bowl champion coach, Bill Parcell, so I did not know. And so I just took a chance and I called in and I said, coach, I said, you don't know me but I introduced myself and he said, what do you want? I said, well, I'm getting ready to play this game. I just would like to ask your advice on what do you think I should tell my team? And he says, okay, I'm gonna ask you one question first. I said, well, what's that? He says, do you think you can win? I said, yeah, I think we can win. And so he's okay, well, this is what I would tell your team. And he went on to say that as a leader of young people, he says, your responsibility is that you give them an opportunity and a chance to be successful every single time. And so that has stuck with me so that in anything that we do, even though if we design something in practice, this is gonna be very difficult, there has to be the opportunity for them to be successful and we have to devise a way, even with our team now, inheriting what we did and knowing that we have a lot of challenges in front of us, they have to see that in every game, there's a pathway for them to be successful. And I think that my advice to anyone that leads anybody is that you have to show anyone in the organization that there is a pathway for this to happen. And it may be difficult, it may be uphill, it may be harder than you ever imagined, but it is possible. Great. I agree with that. I think we were just in a situation this weekend or over the past two weeks, actually, where we played four games against four top 10 opponents. We're not ranked, we're not receiving votes. And in trying to give them ways in which they could see we could be successful, it wasn't necessarily, this is how we beat this team. It was, these are the things that we are focusing on in this game against this team. And we set goals that I thought were reasonable and expectations that I felt they could buy into and get excited about. And our number one goal for that two week period was to stick together, because I knew it was gonna be challenging. And when we got in the locker room following the last game where we lost by 50 points, I looked at the board and I was able to say, but we did this, and we did this. And what was the number one thing we were supposed to do this weekend? And they said, stick together. And I said, did we do that? Yes, we're together. We're really happy to be on this team. And then one of the players says, you good coach? I'm great. I'm great, you know, because that was the goal. And that was success during that time. And I said, we're writing down names and we're gonna remember this, right? And eventually we'll be back there where it's not small goals. It is like, this is how we win. This is how we beat this team. For us right now, it's about presenting ways for us to feel good and know that we're growing and we're building. And I think that applies to any organization or any group trying to have success. So let's turn that question inward, right? You're both sort of rebuilding, reloading, et cetera. How do you all keep it up, keep it together in that space? Really good, a really good staff. And a really good support staff that's just, it's just made things a lot easier for me, right? Where I can just focus in on how do we get better? I think that's key. And just really being authentic and honest about what it is that I'm demanding of our student athletes. So I've said to them, your best is enough. Your best is enough. We probably don't have a WNBA draft pick right now. And currently, I hope that some of them develop into that. But right now, on our roster, there's no one projected, right? Part of this is we have four freshmen. But anyways, we are just extremely young and if you look on paper, we don't have the same that some other teams in our conference do. And I've told them, I really don't care. We have what we need. And we have people that want to be here. And this is where we are right now. And as long as you are doing your best and giving me your all, that's enough. So when I get frustrated or discouraged, I turn that question to myself. Are you giving your best to the team? Are you doing all that you can do? And I've been able to say, yes, I am. So then my best has to be enough as well. Coach Valk. Well, I think on a deeper level, what maybe motivates me is that I grew up in a small town in Kansas. It's like, I mean, you can't see the end of the world from there, but maybe it's so flat. It's, at the time, it was hours from an airport, hours from a shopping mall. I mean, there wasn't a lot of opportunity. I didn't even know the world existed. And so when I was a high school student, there were some guys that were older than me that saw them for some reason that I had a chance in life. And they protected me from all kind of things looking back. And I just, I mean, it brings just pure love to my heart to think about how they just looked out for me. And so I think it was 45 years ago now or something like that. 35 years ago, I got this key chain. I got a laundry pin in high school that we used to put our dirty socks on and throw it in the washer. And so I've carried this laundry pin every day since 1985 as my key chain as a reminder of those people who made sure I had an opportunity. And so I don't get discouraged because I have great belief that our program's gonna be successful. That doesn't mean that I don't get really ticked off because I think it's, every game is winnable, as I mentioned, and I'm very driven and determined. But the source of that determination and drive goes back to the many, many people who have really put their arms around me to give me the opportunity. Thank you. I've got a question on recruitment. And bear with me, please. I'm gonna sort of summarize if I can. How are major schools in the European Union or South American nations recruiting? And what can we learn from those systems? And can we adopt their processes? I think I've summarized that accurately. I hope I have. We have several European kids on our team and there's not an athletic program. One of the kids that we have is a seven foot freshman from Germany. And he's here because he wanted to get an education. There's not a basketball team attached to a university in his home country. So there really isn't recruitment there. There are club teams and kids can play on club teams as amateurs or they can choose to go all in and sacrifice their amateur eligibility and become young professionals. And so it's really not a model that we can take a lot from in regards to recruitment. Quick side question. When do coaches start building files on players? On prospective players? Yeah. We've known about players as early as junior high, seventh, eighth grade we know about. And how do you come to know about them? Well, now social media helps a lot. But prior to it would just be a coach saying, hey, I got this young kid. You need to come see her. She's gonna be really special. And then we make an effort to see him in club basketball, summer ball, same. It's insane. I mean, I watched a kid that was 14 years old play the other day. I mean, it's very early when it starts. And obviously there's a lot of development young people from that stage to before they can walk onto our campus. So there's a lot of evaluation that you must do in their character, in their game, their physical skills, either in their transcript. And the process starts very early and probably too early. Coach Smith, you mentioned that at present there probably aren't some players who are projected to go into the WNBA at this point. And I don't know, Coach Fox, if that is the same assessment that you would have. But my question is what are the odds of going pro? Period. Isn't there a commercial on that? No, I'm just, I mean, the odds of going, like, I mean, you can be a professional, okay? And you might get like one taste of the ice cream, okay? But to actually have a career, those odds are next to impossible, okay? I mean, they're next, I mean, you know, I think I've had 12 kids play in the NBA, okay? And some of them have made, you know, tons of money. But there's also guys who've played just a little bit. And they didn't get life changing and generation changing money. The odds of kids becoming that player are very slim. No matter what school you attend, the odds of becoming that guy that has generational wealth is very, very slim. And now the odds of any kid playing professional basketball at some level, because there's so many opportunities in Europe and everywhere else, there's the developmental league with the NBA, there's minor leagues all over the place. Sure, a lot of guys can have a chance to do that and say that they were a pro. But to actually make an amount of money that changes your life, those odds are slim. Roster size issue as well and the number of teams. I mean, you're talking less than 150 people who can say they play in the WNBA. They're way more talented women's basketball players than that, like the league needs to grow. There needs to be more teams in cities, right? And we need the roster size to increase because... Is that on the horizon? You know, I didn't get through all of the collective bargaining agreement to know if roster size was on that. But I know I'm waiting for the Warriors to step up and get a team. I think the Bay Area has been an amazing place for women's basketball. I think the fan support is here and I think it'd be a great city to have a WNBA team. Okay, fantastic. So just with a couple minutes left to go, I had a couple of quick questions. And one is that you mentioned attendance and size and desire for a team. One can't help but notice the disparity in numbers between the folks who come to the men's basketball games here and the women's. Can we talk a little bit about what might be behind that and how we might be able to change that at the end of every game? Jump on the mic and give an impassioned plea for folks to continue to support the team and those kinds of things, but what will it take and why the difference? I'm not sure what the reason is behind that. When we had our final four team here and the most winning we've ever done here at Cal, we averaged 2,500 fans and the men weren't going to the final four, they were getting more. So there's something going on there. You know, I want Coach Fox to have it sold out. I want him to have as many fans as possible. I think the young men who are working their butts off on that court deserve to be supported by the institution, by the students, by the community. And I also think the young women who are giving their all on the court for us every night deserve to be supported. And I don't know how we get that going for both programs. You know, we're gonna win more games. I think that helps, but also when we were winning more games than anyone, we still didn't have the fan support. And no theories? I'm just gonna say really positive and say it's going to come and it's going to happen. I'm just thankful for the people that come and support our kids and if we play the game the right way and continue to grow and develop, that part will take care of itself. All right, so I'm gonna give you to the last word, but before we dismiss, just wanted to promote the upcoming campus conversation, which will be February 24th, when we'll have Chief Innovation and Entrepreneurship Officer Rich Lyons. Final question, what will be your legacy? I don't necessarily want to have a legacy. I want the story about Cal basketball during my tenure to be about our teams and about our players. It really shouldn't be about the coach. And so I hope that when my time ends, hopefully a long time down the road, that this is about what these young people did and that should be the entire story. I think that's a great answer. I think for me, I would encourage you all to read a piece that I wrote yesterday surrounding Martin Luther King's birthday. And for me, this opportunity to be a head coach here at Cal is about empowering young women. And I hope that I can do that for as long as possible and help young women grow and feel inspired to do whatever it is that they wanna do on this earth. Thank you very much and thank you all for attending. Thank you.