 Live from Washington D.C., if the Cube. Covering Inforum DC 2018, brought to you by Infor. Welcome back to Washington D.C., we are live here on theCUBE at Inforum 18. I'm John Wallace along with Dave Vellante, and it's a pleasure now to welcome to the show from CapGym and I, a couple of folks are Rachel Myers, who's director of alliances at CapGym and I. And John Clark, who's the VP of Infor Practice at CapGym and I, and Dave, put your phone away, would you please? We're off to a good start. We are! We are! We're off to a good start. Give me guys again. I think we're just giving them directions for dinner tonight. I think what you're doing, it's down the K Street, take a ride. John drive scooters without a helmet. That's great. Inside story. Rachel and John, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time here. Thanks for having us. Let's talk about the partnership with Infor, where it's coming from, what you are adding to that, how you view it, what you're getting out of it. And John, if you would? Yeah, absolutely. First, hello from DC, like you said. The relationship that CapGym and I has had with Infor goes back over 20 years, but we formalized it really two years ago and had a strategic partnership defined around several of the products that Infor has with a big focus on digital and cloud. So CapGym and I seized at Infor is really leading the charge on a lot of native cloud products out there. And we know that that is certainly something our clients are looking for. So formalized relationship and extremely excited to be lead partners and sponsors here at Infor. And so Rachel, where do you come into play here then as far as director of alliances goes? I mean, I think the job title probably speaks for itself, but in terms of how the Infor relationship works and where it comes in to your portfolio, to your point, how does that work? So I manage the relationship with Infor as our customers are looking at cloud and all the options out there. I manage the relationship into Infor, bringing the right folks to bear to our customers and joining at the hip where we need to in support of our customers. Okay, so you mentioned John that it's been a 20 year relationship. So that means it goes back probably to the lost in software days, right? In the whole early days of ERP. Now we come into the modern era, get cloud, we're hearing all about AI. We're also hearing about sort of micro verticals and industry expertise. So square that circle for me because you guys have deep industry expertise. How do you mesh with Infor? Yeah, great question. We absolutely, as you said, go to market from a sector perspective. So everything that we do has some tint of an industry or a sector verticalization and it matches exactly well with how Infor goes to market with last model functionality. So what we do, for example, is look at where they are, where Infor and our sector team see gaps like on food processing companies and we'll build out that solution and take that to market. So really kind of extending the last model functionality within Infor and having kept Gemini solutions as well. So does that functionality ultimately make it back into Infor code or not necessarily? Not necessarily. Okay, all right, so it's like last inch function, right? Exactly, that's probably good analogy for you. Okay, so, well, it's always the hardest part, right? I mean, you think of cable, you think of all the sort of examples, right? So the old story is if you're here and you want to get to the wall and you go halfway, you never get there, right? So that's kind of the process that you're in. There's always more to do, right? Right, right. Okay, so what's hot these days in your space? Well, we're here at Inforum talking to customers and our partners about many things but we actually are speaking about Industry 4.0 which is a big hot topic, supply chain and EAM, Enterprise Asset Management. We have practices and expertise in all of those so we can bring the best to our customers from a system integration partner capability which would be us along with Infor and the products that they bring to bear. So what's the 101 on 4.0? Presumably a lot of automation, more efficiency, driving business value. How would you describe Industry 4.0 next gen? It's the next evolution I would say to automation of processes. We're getting closer I would think and people are definitely piloting to get there but building a roadmap and helping them really see the value is what we're trying to do with our customers these days and making it real and really producing some ROI beyond that with automation. So AI is a piece of that. Have you seen like blockchain hit yet or is that sort of on people's roadmaps? I think it's definitely a roadmap item. I think there's some experimentation but what we're definitely seeing become real is robotic process automation, RPA. We're doing a lot of that with our customers and taking it beyond experimentation to actual ROI. I mean RPA is exploding. I was actually impressed and surprised to hear so much of RPA talk this morning. I didn't realize that Infor had quasi out of the box capabilities there. So what are you seeing? A lot of sort of back office functions, getting automated software robots, getting trained to do mundane tasks. What's the experience there? I think as we are implementing ERPs like Infor's there is a need to take processes that customers are doing today, manual and automate those to see the extension and the ROI beyond just the ERP software. We do see a lot of it start in the back office. So a lot of finance and HR functions is kind of the first place that companies look for is one thing that we do see on RPA projects is don't try to tackle everything, but get focused and get some quick wins, if you will. And that's really where we built our library and where we work with Infor. Is it fair the automation if it is coming from the lines of business, right? We're just kind of in a wheelhouse, right? It's not sort of an IT thing so much. IT's probably a little afraid of it, but is that the way to see it? Yes, it is, yes. And so talk about kept Gemini strategy as the world sort of evolves. I mean, you always hear small projects, small wins are the way to go. And for years, it was like the big SAP implementation or the big work on implementation. How are you guys changing your business to accommodate that new thinking? So really on several fronts, one is definitely the methodology that we have and we see on projects is shifting from a waterfall to an agile. So much quicker iterations and cycles on the projects themselves. And usually the scope, it will start off with a line of business. And again, if it's looking for, hey, I just need improve the digital relationship I have with my customer, which can a lot of times just mean start a digital relationship with my customer. So it's really, you know, you got to keep a tight focus on the scope and just have an agile approach, which again is what we have changed in methodology sport. So digital obviously is real. I mean, every CEO that we talk to is trying to get digital right. A lot of experimentation going on. Like you said, a lot of, hey, we have to have a digital strategy. Then you throw AI into the mix. You throw things like blockchain. It's a complicated situation for a lot of firms. What are the discussions like with customers? Where are you seeing the most success or early traction? I think having the vision and the scope of where you want to go three years, five years down the road and being able to prioritize against that roadmap, what's going to give you the biggest benefit first so that it's not just haphazardly trying out these technology enablers like RPA and AI. It is a clear vision and strategy of where we're trying to go and slowly hitting some of that ROI and seeing value. Are you seeing more of a save money, make money, kind of a mix? What are you seeing there? I would say probably a mix. Save money for the right reasons and spend money to get the ROI that we're planning for in that roadmap. Well, just to amplify on a point that you're making, Dave, just from the customer side of the fence on this, for people who aren't, you're just introducing them to the cloud, right? To begin with, and they're trying to embrace or understand a concept that they don't have any experience with. And now you think of all these other capabilities you have down the road or all these other opportunities, whether it's artificial intelligence or whether it's RPA, whatever it is, it's got to be mind-blowing a little bit, doesn't it? And how do you, I guess, calm them down if they realize we are that far behind? You know, we're never going to get there. We're always going to be three, five, 10 years behind because we're that far behind right now. So how do you, I guess, allay their concerns and then get them up to speed in such a way that they feel like they can catch up? Yeah, I'd say one of the key things that we can provide is various maturity models. So we have kind of a, you know, keeping it simple of a two-by-two grid of where do you fall from digital enablement? A, do you even know what that means? Do you do it within divisions or certain lines of business? And then is that a part of the strategy for your customer acquisition, customer retention, employee retention, et cetera? And start with kind of a fit there and then we basically have offerings that then go from, okay, if you're starting out, then the approach can be, let's go through what cloud is. Like I said, there are absolutely still, you know, discussions that we have now on, hey, what is the difference in cloud and on-prem? Is it the same software version? Is it a different software? What are the security features in the data center? You know, some of those questions are still out there, as you said, and we've got to look at the maturity model to get them there. So what are the, let's go through the simple, I like simple, the two-dimensional. What are the buckets? So it's like, hey, we're not even thinking about it. That's kind of lower left. Upper left would be line of business focus, sort of narrow. Lower right would be it's strategic, but we're not acting on it yet. In a division or a single line of business, or it's a, I may have a cross-functional solution with a great digital roadmap, but it's in one plant. Cause then you get into, okay, well that's probably because you either had a champion locally or you had some triggers such as some customer issues or production issues or something that forced the issue, so to speak there. And then the top right is, yeah, it's part of the strategy. It's built in to where the budget gets allocated as well and it's a, you know, part of all the conversations they're having with business and IT. Are you guys seeing particular, thinking about sticking on digital for a minute, you see a particular industry uptake. I mean, obviously, you know, retail has been disrupted, publishing, you know, the music industry has been disrupted, but there's certain industries that really haven't been dramatically disrupted yet, financial services, healthcare, defense really to date, these high-risk businesses. What are you guys seeing and kind of where's the greatest familiarity or affinity to digital? Where we're starting and where we've been focused with Infor in the marketplace is consumer products and distribution as well as manufacturing. That's really been a focus area for us and we didn't get into this, but John's team has capability in Infor and it's skilled in Infor and there are some focus areas for us with the customers in those industry segments. Do you think that automation, AI, improvements in the supply chain, you know, robotics, even software robots, will reverse the trend toward offshore manufacturing? Tariffs, I guess, maybe help too. But I mean, are you seeing any evidence of that? Automation sort of making the pendulum swing back or are the cost advantages so attractive and is the supply chain so entrenched? I'll let John elaborate, but I would say that there is still a fit for purpose for offshoring certain things and for automating certain things and that's why I think it's important to build a plan and a strategy for which things will be solved for in which ways. Yeah, and the one thing I want to add is as you see some plants go from, it took 200, 300 people to operate a facility to I can do it with 10, that changes the economics of, you know, now the labor costs and labor arbitrage isn't as much a function, but yes, what about the rent facilities and transportation? So does, we are seeing the economic calculation change a bit from the point of, you know, just go offshore for labor, well, if labor is not as big a point, we are seeing a shift there. Right, so the labor component's shrinking and then you can automate that. Is there a quality aspect or is that kind of a myth? We think that that's a myth. Yeah, right. Quality can improve a little bit. Exactly. Yeah, won't go down, won't go down. You're saying coming back, on-shoring. Or you're saying offshore. Automating, automating whether it's on or off. Oh, regardless of the location. Right. Automation's going to drive quality up, lower rework, right? Okay. Robots do it a little bit better than us, especially if it's repetitive. They don't get tired. How about some of your favorite kind of joint examples with Infor, any kind of customer wins you can talk about? We're actually working together in a lot of spaces, but one of the biggest ones that we are actually talking about a case study here on the floor at Inforum is at Coke Industries, one of its company's Flint Hills resources. We're actually in the middle of an EAM implementation with Flint Hills. And working together collaboratively with Infor at the client. And is that the, or bigger picture, you said 20 year relationship formalized much more recently than that. Ultimately, what does that deliver for the client, you think, at the end of the day? What's the power of that partnership? So I think that there's several things. One is that with the experience and history of a Cap Gemini with 50 years of consulting experience and strategy work, we now specifically bring Infor and Infor's technology into the conversations that it would have been, it was not as structured before two years ago. So now we specifically have, where does Infor fit in the roadmap? From a software agnostic industry perspective. And then from just a plain and simple support in keeping your customers Infor environment running, that's additional strength that we have that we didn't have before. So you guys are known for being technology agnostic, even though you've got an affinity for going to market with a company, in this case, Infor. How are they doing? What's on the to-do list? If you're talking to customers saying, hey, this is the sweet spot, here's where some of the items that we want them to improve on, what would you say? I'd say for, I can at least say tactically with my team, what we are looking to enhance our solution is around burst and analytics. So that's definitely a best-of-breed tool in the marketplace. And so where we can integrate that into more products, because it's Infor acquired a year and a half ago or so. So trying to fold it in with each product and keeping that trajectory, where again, a customer only has one platform to support for. So that's kind of infusing that modern BI into the platforms. Functionally, you're kind of happy with it. Oh, absolutely. And it's just a matter of getting the function in to the sweet. Right, having the de facto. Right. That's where we want to get. Right, right. But I mean, also if you just look at the floor out there, from our perspective, the great showing and the excitement and just the conversations that we have around Infor. There's been some confusion, I would say, from without naming names, other competitors of Infor's on what is their cloud and digital roadmap. And then when we look at Infor with cloud native from the ground up, it makes that back to one of the questions you had on depending on where customers are starting. If you can go from the beginning, like Infor has done with some of their products, natively built, cloud up, then those are great conversations and we're seeing more of that in the market right now. When we talk to customers, well, let's see, when you talk to the sort of traditional vendors, they'll say, it's a hybrid world, which seems to be true. When you talk to other cloud guys, it's like cloud, cloud, cloud. Now, even AWS is somewhat capitulated. They've made some announcements to do stuff on-prem. But logically, it makes sense that if the data is in some data center location, it's probably going to stay there for a while. If it's working and there's a lot of it, they don't necessarily want to move it to the cloud. So do you buy that? Is it a hybrid world? Will it stay a hybrid world? Or do you feel like the pendulum really is swinging to the cloud or not? Because of IoT, it's more sort of a decentralized world. What are you guys seeing? I think it's a customer choice. Sometimes we have some federally regulated customers that are concerned about data and security and not necessarily there yet in terms of the cloud. And we have some customers that are wanting to go 100% cloud. So I think it is definitely customer choice. And we are there to advise them whether cloud is the right answer and even to help them implement and support them on their journey. So I think we've seen all every, you know, every which flavor of cloud hybrid. If from your standpoint, whatever you want, you're going to have the customer. I'd say in the past two or three years definitely more clients, I would say most now, will look at some, when they're doing their TCO and software selection, they absolutely will lead with, hey, at least the core part, the ERP part. For example, what can I do for cloud with that? Because there's just so much cost savings. Yeah, the consideration versus three, five years ago, no, you wouldn't look at that. But I do think there absolutely will be a hybrid footprint going forward. Well, and if there's an affinity to cloud, presumably N4 has an advantage there because they're born in the cloud, at least for that part of the business. And other entrenched ERP is not going to be so easy to move to the cloud. In fact, that's what you want to do. And I think we share the vision with N4 and talking to customers with the cloud-first approach. It makes sense to move to the cloud. There is value in the cloud and we can help build that story for them. Charles Phillips, pretty smooth spokesperson. He's a clear thinker. He laid out the strategy. The strategy is my fourth in forum. I mean, it's kind of, it's grown, but it's consistent, you know? And he presents it in a manner that I think is pretty compelling. So that's got to make you feel good, right? You got a leader that's committed, been here for a while. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one other thing that I really do like about coming to N4 to see Charles is he actually gets it. You know, if you think of it from CEO of a large software company with hundreds of products, he knows where they actually fit and can go through kind of the roadmap in the story. So very, very credible. The partnerships of win-win, for sure. It certainly sounds like you've painted a very good picture. We appreciate the time. Thanks for being with us and good luck the next couple of days here at the show. Have fun. Thank you. Appreciate the time. Should be, right? All right. Back with more live in Washington, D.C. You're watching theCUBE.