 Welcome to another exchange for media pitch live, the brand talk with brand and business leaders. Today we have a special guest Mr. Sachin Jain who really doesn't need an introduction. He is the CEO and MD of the largest diamond company in India and diamonds are forever. Welcome Mr. Jain, we are delighted that we are talking to you. Thank you Anurag. It's a pleasure to be here. It is not only on Zoom but it is live on exchange for media pages, exchangeformedia.com, pitchonnet.com and impactonnet.com. So Sachin, how have you been the last 90 days? So you look healthy, happy, cheerful. Well Anurag, first and foremost, many thanks for inviting me. It's always a pleasure to interact with you and be on your platforms. They are always the most important platforms for anybody to refer to any business documentation and I'm a big fan for all your streams, so thanks for inviting me. Sachin, kindness is the most important thing for leaders. No, I really believe on the work that you and your team does, it's phenomenal and big congratulations and you continued the whole stride during the lockdown. Now, you know, you're asking about the last 90 days, I think like all of us, we've had a very different life in the last 90 days. Fortunately for me, I've been at home which has never happened. So a person new for me, I'm sure perhaps for you as well, I think we made the most of it. And I feel on the work side of it, I think I feel really proud of my team and the team that I work with and the team that I'm part of, that we all were able to seamlessly integrate, work together, bring effectiveness. Yes, it was quite, the world right now is quite anxious in terms of what the future will hold. But all of us are doing a bit to unfold this whole mystery, getting more clearer. And I think in some form, shape or size, moving towards normalcy. So interesting times in the last 90 days, Anurag, and I'm happy that we're all getting out of it in some manner and normalcy is around the corner. Thank you Sachin on that positive note and looking at the bright side, you talked about how your team has rallied to support you to do the operations virtually and shown tremendous resilience. You know, we live in Bukka times, the volatile, if this is not volatile, they're uncertain. We can't see beyond certain weeks, maybe a week, they're complex and they are ambiguity. So tell us, what are your personal takeaways in the last 90 days on what leaders should do to navigate themselves and navigate the teams that they lead? I think first and foremost, Anurag, and I can tell you one of my very important learnings has been that when we are in this race and we are running to catch up from one meeting with the other, one delivery to the other, I think, and I'm sure you would resonate as well, we perhaps not get the time to stall and reflect. And I think I can vouch for myself, I have never actually taken reflection seriously. This was a time when you were forced into being alone, you were forced into sort of having perhaps a little more time initially on hand. And I think as business leaders, someone like me, I mean I reflected and you could shout out your future in a certain manner, which we don't get as leaders. And I think that's one of my most important learnings to sort of carve out time for reflection. I would urge, I would suggest people who are on the call to perhaps put some time for reflection in your calendar, so it's not just incidental, you put it up, so you plan your life ahead of you. And that was an important learning. Perhaps it appears if I move and reflect back onto my life, there are a lot of values by which our organization runs. And this was a very important time when you say these values are not just theoretic things that you stick on walls, it's not just when you show a big fancy presentation to people who join your organization. It was a time to live those values. And the merit of the thing that I stand for a few things as an organization and the people stand for those things, I saw them happening live. So to share with you, like for example, we have some of the values, one of them is show we care, one of them is pulling together. And I already talked about the way our team has pulled together, but also show we care and how we treat safety. These are three very pillars on which the organization runs. We saw them in action. We saw them really happening on ground, right from the communities where we mine in Africa and what we were able to do with them. And we got resignation to write from the end to our employees to the consumers. So that was pretty interesting. And one of the values is shaping the future. So now the ball is in our court. All that had to happen has happened. Now if the future is different and as you said is ambiguous, it's volatile. I mean, shape the future boldly into this new world. And that's what we, again, I reflect back as to how these values that are inculcated in all of us as a team have actually played out. I've been proud about that. Thank you, Sachin. Actually, it all slowed down relatively. I know we get more calls, we're doing more video interactions. But overall, we slowed down because we're staying in homes. We're not traveling, we're saving up two hour travel. We're not doing breakfast, lunch, dinner, business, etc. I'm sure you miss a bit of it. But overall, we're doing okay because we are serving a higher purpose. And you rightly said that all the values that the organizations stood for have come to the fore. They've been actualized. Now, I want to ask you a little bit about diamonds are luxury, so to say, right? Diamonds are luxury, right? At least traditionally, diamonds are luxury, I said. Sorry, Raghav, I had a bit of fish on my head. I said diamonds are typically luxury. At last 90 days, people have kind of lived with the motto, less is more. So tell us in this, if I may say gold has become 50,000 rupees, look at where gold has gone. Sure. So do you think diamonds will also become even more valuable as people, because they're wealth too in some way? Certainly. I think you're absolutely right and the fact is that there are two important things that we've seen emerge in this lockdown as consumers. First and foremost is consciousness. And consciousness, I'm not reflecting about my care for Mother Earth and all that. That's one part of it. Consciousness to say that do I even need to buy anything? Life is like the sense of contentment and the whole aspect about life is good. I mean, God's given me enough. There's a sense of gratitude that's come up. And connected to that, I think we've been researching and consumers a lot and we believe that fewer better things will be important. You'll buy less, but you'll buy what is valuable, what matters to you. Relationships will matter more. As I said, this sensibility to own to a natural world that is emerging. And all of them, I actually ironically connect back to the beauty of the grace or the rarity of what diamonds are. And I think in some, I mean, I do understand the short term, there's of course a lack of demand and all of those things. But we think fundamentally the way consumers are moving towards a different consumption, diamonds actually fit in beautifully. Now what changes for us really will be, simplicity is a very important thing. It's not the whole opulence or showing to my neighbor or getting into that party and showing off my big rocks or my huge jewelry pieces is going to take a big bit of beating. And I think as marketeers, if we keep on top of the trends of how consumers are moving in or how they're navigating through different needs, we believe that we fundamentally have an extremely strong product. I mean, diamonds itself is a gift of mother nature. And that rarity, that timelessness, that endurability, that every diamond pulls value. It's not like a expense on luxury where it's not like a store of deficit. It's not a depreciating asset. It's not a depreciating asset. Value doesn't go away. Exactly. The moment you drive it out, 30% value gone and 10% zero. Absolutely. So I think from all that aspect, things are in our stride. But I wish and I hope that all of our awful industry picks up these new trends of the consumer and we do well. That's one part of it. The other part of it is actually the whole manufacturing for which India is so well known. I would love to share with you all listeners that 14 out of 15 diamonds that are produced in the world or manufactured in the world come from India. Now, India plays an extremely huge role in the manufacturing of diamonds. And the unique part about this lockdown has been that everything is told. So the mining is told, the manufacturing is told, the retail stores are shut. And there's a pause to pretty much everything. So when we got into the lockdown, we were having a whole lot of discussions that, oh man, will the prices fall down? Will the demand supply go across? And the fact is, since everything is stored, it's been quite consistent in the way it's opening up. So for example, our mining operations have also opened up in a very small manner. Manufacturing also has opened up in a very small manner. Interestingly, certain countries like China, their demand is going up very, very, very wide. So we hope in the ways, you know, steering it, the fact that we believe that fewer better things respect to, you know, certain relationships. And I think in all this new era of what things you are thinking is fit in well, in a different world without doubt. What worked in the past is certainly not going to work in the future. And hence agility for any business. I'm sure we are, you know, I'm sure you're talking to a variety of businesses and I really don't know what is a travel and business doing really. But I think the headwinds are of different speeds in different industries. I believe that in the business of diamonds, the headwinds are there. But the fundamental belief of what we are doing and what a product stands for is also permanent. So we have to navigate this. Thank you Sachin for being authentic and dealing with what we are discussing very directly. Now coming back to consumers in marketing, as you yourself referred to the consumer behavior has changed. Some of it may be temporary, but some of it may be permanent changes. Tell us from where you sit, what do you see are the temporary changes and what do you see are the permanent changes? I think first and foremost, let's reflect on, you know, the immediate issues, so to say. So when the lockdown started, you know, we heard news about China revival and the great numbers coming from China. This happened just in the first week of April, end of March, April, we started hearing it. Honestly, I wasn't too clear about those numbers at that point in time until, you know, we have large scale operations in China. And when I saw those numbers, I was baffled. And I was baffled with a few things. I was baffled with the speed of recovery, with the speed in which consumers, you know, came back to normal life. The speed of mind, luxury and diamonds. And there were discussions internally that will this get replicated in our market in India. And the answer is no. The fact is that, you know, the way we consume luxury, the way we deal with life is very different. And you talked about ambiguity, I think all of us are fully ambiguous in our minds right now. So short term, I think it's about the core necessities, the basic survival. You know, it's all those things that are clogging up everybody's mind. I mean, I have friends in retail business where, you know, we are seeing consumption of fitness equipment going up and fitness gear going up, not necessarily diamonds. Today, we are in the fourth week when Bangalore opened, for example. We had about 30 to 40% recovery. Various other parts of India are between, you know, 25% to about 40% as well. We think that a big comeback should be around the September end of October. You know, where we should be about, I would say 60 to 70% recovered if we do things well. And perhaps a much stronger recovery in 2020. So I'll be honest about it too. So there's no magic wand in front of us to say, you know, leave aside COVID, it's not going to impact. Because people, there is a large chunk of population that is economically moved. And let's say that's impacted. The other, there's one interesting segment. And I've assumed a lot of your viewers might be catering to those segments as well. And there is one segment of, you know, H&Is and people who are not actually economically impacted by COVID. And in the sense of luxury, I can say that there's a sense of guilt, the sense of reluctance that they're facing, although they want to buy, you know, but something's holding back. And I think if we do as marketeers, if we approach this segment, logically, I'm not saying blatantly. The concept of saying, you know, come out and buy my product at 25% discount is out. I mean, don't do that. But if we address logically this segment, I think short-term sorrows can be taken care of. I mean, they hold a lot of footage. What Sachin Jayan is saying, there is a short-term sorrow that hopefully there will be a long-term joy, even a medium, mid-term happiness, if I may use that. I might just want to add, I might also add that, you know, also as marketeers, it is, you know, we invest crazy amounts of money and energies on researching and understanding what's going on in consumers' mind. I believe that while we are in this phase where everybody is saying, let's invest less and less control our expenses, I would suggest not to sort of tamper on your research and marketing budget. Firstly, I say that no other consumers are thinking about your industry, what's going on in the mind and what that would mean to your short-term. There I say, it's very dynamic. Totally. You want to deep dive into that. Totally. And even when you started, you mentioned about this and I'll repeat that. The eras of long-term planning, you know, that, you know, here is where my organization and brand will be in five years and seven years. All those have become history already. But in these times, if you're not on top of the pulse of the consumer in your market today, perhaps you lose out. I mean, in our case, I'll tell you, we started, South of India started better. Chenna is getting into lockdown tomorrow. Now, you know, it's so important for us to figure out what's happening with that geography of consumer and what is my mitigation strategy? I think it's more become month-on-month to week-on-week and stuff like that than saying, let's talk about five years and where will be in five years. Because who knows whether we'll be existing in five years or not. So agility and really knowing what the consumers mind is thinking today is important. Right, you said agility, if I may say understanding where the consumers are putting their money. Totally. Where their heart is. So I think you have to understand this. And Satya and I keep saying we've become a 3C economy. Contactless. We're talking without meeting. Last conversation was in our hotel on the stage. Yes. We are doing it through a media technology. So contactless. Second is caring. You talked about it. You talked about your team. You talked about how even in your mining operations. And third is collaboration. As a leader, tell us how these three are impacting your business. Especially collaboration. I think hugely Anurag, we have been a very traditional business in a lot of senses. There's a traditional cutting industry. There's a traditional retailing industry. And we are miners. And if you talk to anybody in this business, we are disconnected but connected sort of different worlds. And in the last three months, the amount of openness, collaboration, the amount of seeing that let's build the future together has been unprecedented. And the fact is that we all know as modern business leaders that challenges might look different but in context they're very similar. So I think you're absolutely right that collaboration will be important. The other aspect you talked about is contactless. Which I would expand a little more is the usage of technology. Which is going to be humongous. And in our kind of world where everything was physical. Where when we sell out rough diamonds, our buyers would look at it with an eyeglass. Travel 20 hours into a flight into Botswana. Look at every single rough diamond and then purchase and then pull physicality in our B2B world was humongous. I mean, until the lockdown hit us, there was no alternative to a physical world. And I think that's going to go through a humongous change. So all of that is already happening. But also the retail side, I think there's a lot of SOPs that everybody is now implemented around safety and all of those things. But certainly there'll be a huge impact on technology on the retail world itself. I mean, an average time you spend to buy a necklace or a piece of jewelry was anyways from 30 minutes to 2 hours. Where a family would come in, sit, have some snacks, get some drinks, come 3 times. I think that's not going to be the way forward. And it is our role to bring in smartness or giving them solutions which are quicker. Solutions which are perhaps technology based. All of that meeting and that greeting perhaps can happen in the form and break down the timing so that people come in and go out safely. They go out with less of sort of crowding in places and so on and so forth. But you're like contactless with technology and I would say collaboration is the key of the future. Thank you Sachin. I want to go back. You said the marketer should not cut budgets on research and should not cut budgets on marketing. Can you elaborate on the research side? Can you dwell on the marketing side? I think what I meant for marketing was... Has business leaders and marketers gone on a pause in the last 90 days and not communicated? Of course, in some markets as you said, the markets were open or open for a brief time. Others are closed. So what have you done with your marketing? So I'll tell you, Anurag. So for us, when we all got into lockdown, it was a bit of what hit us, what the hell happened kind of thing. And there was a bit of scare and clarity. So at that time, the role that we took on was first and foremost, we decided that we will not lose connection with our consumers. So of course, at that time, the mediums were very different. Digital, of course, was taking the lead and at that time we stayed connected with our consumers. And at that era, the whole discussion around conversation was around faith holding hand, better times ahead, that sort of feeling. What's happened in the last three months really is that this humongous amount of negativity that's gone around consumers mind. I mean, right from news to your neighbor who's impacted, ambiguity, job losses and all of that. So it's been a lot of negative. And I think in everybody who used to recognize what is the role of their business. And in that case, one of the roles of the business of diamonds is happiness, is joy, is cheer. And I'm saying that there has to be a mid-path between moving from extreme negativity to starting conversations which are cheerful, a bit joyful. And again, I'm not saying... And give hope. You know, we are sensitive and mindful of what's happening around us. But at the same time, we have to give hope to every individual to kind of cross that bridge. Right. While all of us have those business targets to meet, we need to be extremely conscious that don't consider a consumer, you know, outside of the picture. If you start telling him that here's our product, you know, it's 200,000 rupees, that many EMI and whatever they're coming by. I think you'll piss off the consumer more. I think you have to recognize that he's into this. He's also crossing that bridge from, you know, extreme negativity to better hope. And if you're ambassadors of the hope, and that's the role that marketing needs to do today. You know, the fact is that IPL is not happening. The Olympics are gone. Any form of joy is all out of the picture. All new movies are coming up. And people are stuck in home. I mean, I have a young daughter. And the fact is that it's perhaps the first time that in summer vacations you're home and schools will start again. So we need to be cognizant of that and be ambassadors a bit of cheer. And I think this is really coming from the fact that you really know and you're top of where your consumers are. So I think that'll be phase two. And really the phase three will be when we say, let's press pedal on revival. When it'll be about numbers and I think you're staying connected to the consumers will pay a role. Now, your question of marketing, I think the role of marketing will be around staying connected and using the right messaging in different times of when this change is happening. But completely by coding marketing, perhaps it'll be a wrong decision, particularly for industries or categories like ours, which are, you know, luxury, non-discretionary and stuff like that. And I would say that this should be a consistent effort. We should not break this whole connectivity that we had with our consumers. What Sachin Jain is saying is the brands need to communicate continuously with their consumers, build that relationship, showcase that relationship possibly in these times and not cut the connection. Yes, these are temporary times. And there I say this shall to pass. I want to ask you my last two questions. I was talking to a leader from the technology industry and I asked him what are the top three skills required to be successful as a leader. I was talking to Karan Bajwal, the CEO of World Cloud and he said resilience. He said the ability to deal with ambiguity and third he said the ability to resolve conflicts. So tell us as a leader, what are the qualities that you feel would be required in a post-COVID world. Of course, some will always remain there of being empathetic of communicating or leading by example. But tell us what is Sachin Jain's take on surviving and thriving post-COVID? I think it's open world to answer and so many things that I can tell my mind. But I mean the top few that come to my mind, I would say first and foremost, when you're building an organization, build values that are genuine. Because when times are tough, those values play out and your teams play a humongous part on that. And the alignment of teams is so, so, so critical. I mean, you were living in a world where you would hold the meetings once in a month, get everybody in a boardroom and have those, you know, jazzy meetings those days are gone and everybody's on their own. There's a sense of trust that the whole sense of trust, the sense of belief involved, the sense of helping one another in the world. Even empowerment. Because you have empowerment, totally. So that's one aspect of it. The other one I would say is really the fact that decision making, which, and I think every leader comes with their own sort of strength on how fast, quick and how they decide please. And I would say in the post-COVID world, make decisions more. And I'm saying that. So decision making on monthly, quarterly basis possibly. Do it hour by hour. Daily basis. I would say that as a leader, you'd be better off making more decisions. And I'm not saying that all of the decisions are right or wrong, but the luxury to sit on non-decision making and postponing decision making is over. The fact that if there are four options ahead of you, choose that option today, you might fail, but change, succeed. It's such a dynamic world that not every decision will result into a right sort of result. But since it's so dynamically changing at every level, then you've got to decide faster and move on. And I would say lastly, reflect back on what your core business really is. What is your product? And I think in my case, I've been very lucky that it's this miracle of mother nature, which I think, you know, you need to read the bread in your mind that it's not just about that value on the paper and on that calculator. But it does more. And I'm sure everybody can find those things. But I think the belief... Intangibles. Intangibles become even more important than the post-commitment one. Exactly. So, you know, it's the role of a leader to sort of bring out specifics what those rules of your industry or your product are and really bring strength out of that. Because in our case, that's long run. I mean, there's a huge headwind coming in. It's already there. But we are fundamentally clear that in the long run, the product is desirable. The product reflects love. It reflects, you know, something that you can pass on to perhaps your daughter or your mother or give it off. So I think it's a very... I mean, the reflection that I had on what really diamonds are has been strongest ever. Thank you, Satyam. I'll ask you my last question. If you had to predict the economy, 60 days to 120 days, two months to four months, Verizon, do you see the economy being strong? Do you see the consumer demand being strong? Or when do you see the consumer demand coming up? Of course, the variable is when does the corona kind of taper away? When is the vaccine comes out? These are two big kind of variables. But beyond that, what are you hearing from your peers? What do you see from the position where you sit in, where you talk to retailers, you talk to everybody in your value chain? What is the view emerging? I don't know. If you were to ask me this question about a month back, I would have given you a vague answer. Today, I can give you some certainty because some of our markets have been open now for four to five weeks. And I can tell you that as human beings, you talk about resilience that exists inside us. And the speed to normalcy will be very fast. And when I say fast, it will differ between age groups within certain cities that are impacted more or less. But I foresee that we will move towards normalcy with, of course, breaking rules and following certain rules and all of that. And infections will happen in your sphere. But I foresee that by September, October, we should be in a fairly better position. And I can talk more depth about our business. And I think if you were saying 100% recovery, forget it. I think we cannot plan those situations. If there's about 50% to 60% recovery at Diwali time, you know, we're good. We should done for that. Prepare well for it. You know, do not preparation. Why is it on 14 November? Yes, but I meant September, October when the festive season begins. You know, we should be that recovered. And I would foresee that January, February will be perhaps a 80% recovery. That reminds me. On that note, I would like to let you go. We are out of time and I just want to, if you had to give a message to hope to people on this broadcast and people who read your interviews subsequently on the site in the magazine, what's your message of hope? My, my thing is that, you know, we all are in together. We all will come out, come out of it together strongly, but it'll depend on how you deal with this. So lockdown period, I think in some way was a gift. You know, for a lot of people, it still is partially working from home and all those things happening. Utilize this time to be 10% better. I'm just defining it. For me, it's 10%. You could define it 5, 20, whatever, but be better mentally, physically, emotionally, and all of that we can do. And it's going to be a better world out there. Thank you for being optimistic and authentic. I think if you are these, if you have these two qualities, you will come out better on the other side of COVID. We wish you luck and we look forward to joining you such in another conversation on one of our platforms and hopefully very soon. Thank you, Anurag. And I must also share with you our viewers that one of the most optimistic and cheerful persons I've met is you, Anurag. You also bring in that cheer, that ease, and I'm sure you're dealing with this time very well with your team and your family. Wish you all the best. Because you asked me about personal, I'll tell you the first one week I was very confused. I was very, and I'm an action-oriented person. I take decisions fast. And I was doing over many things. But I think after the first five or seven days, I got into an action mode and I haven't stopped. I've done my bit to kind of reinvent, make the best of what we have. And it kind of, it is a positive moment towards realizing your dreams. And also understanding that we all are connected and living in the day while we plan maybe for a week, 10 days ahead. But we're not planning like six months, one year. We'll take the day as it comes. I'm sure we'll be able to deal with it with the right intent and the right action. I think we'll do okay. So thank you, Sathya. Fantastic words. As I said, kindness is the biggest wealth one can have and can give. So thank you for sharing that wealth with me. And I look forward to another conversation. Thank you so much. Thanks for hanging on. Thank you.