 Nargis, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show. Yes, I'm very excited to be here. So honored. Thank you for inviting me. Thanks for accepting and playing so nicely the last couple of hours and even the last time we hung out, it's just been great. Vibing together and, yeah, on unconditional freedom. It is. Yes. Yeah, always already free. Always. Your song comes up. So good. Yeah. I love that one. Yeah, always already God. Yeah. Unconditionally free. Free. Singularity. That's actually the first thing that came up when I was seeing your Instagram. I just saw the singing videos at first and I was like, oh, this is so cool. Yeah, this is so authentic. Yeah. Yeah. This is so playful. I really, you know, by now that I really enjoy playfulness and not all that seriousness all the time. Yeah. Although I talk about serious topics, but in a very playful way. Yeah. Yeah. And you've also had an interesting awakening where you, which we'll talk about actually this could be a great first topic is that and then also how there was a shift where you began creating content on Instagram on YouTube and felt so playful and so basically generous just sharing about what happened and then just this all of your other selves then turning towards the content that you've been generating and being like, wow, this is actually impacting my life beneficially. And then so yeah, so let's let's dive into that. I think that's a great. That's a great first topic. So tell us about like what has transpired for you in the last. Just say like specifically like the last year has been like the most transformative. Yes. That's the most intense transformative year ever. Yeah. Yeah. It's been an epic year because actually one year ago, I didn't even know about non-drillity. I only came to know about non-duality in 2021 in January, yeah, but there was a lot of seeking prior, but it was just seeking in other directions because I didn't know about non-duality. So the seeking energy was already fired up. So when I came to know about non-duality, it was like, oh my God, I've been looking for this, but I didn't know that it was this. Yeah, yeah. So that was, I think, in January 2021, I read about free will in a book that there is no free will and there were simple examples of that that we cannot predict our thoughts that will come in the next 10 seconds, for instance. And that kind of made an energetic shift in me. I just, at the moment, I thought that was just a great insight, but days passed, I lost some kind of resistance. And then I was like, was it about this quote that I read or what is it? And then I got back into the writer and it's a Dutch writer that talks about non-duality. He's not really famous. He does Zoom sessions and then I got on those Zoom sessions and from his few videos on YouTube, I came to know about my Advaita teacher, who is talking about Advaita for Dante non-duality in a very sober, playful and funny way, but also very confronting. And I would say he's a master in what he does and how he interacts with seekers. He lives also in Holland. It's a Dutch Advaita teacher. And from that point on, I was just obsessed with the only thing that really mattered to me was finding, who am I? As prior to that, there was this seeking in religion for years and trying to attain peace, but it was so different. And then prior to reading a cartala, trying to be present, conscious, it was all about getting a better experience. But as I entered this field of non-duality, as I can say, it was a destruction, a beginning of destroying all that I knew or all that I thought to be true in a very fundamental way. Yeah. That was insane. So it was an insane year. Yeah. Interesting. So you could say that there's a build up of not only conditioning and separation and lack beliefs, but there's also a build up of seeking principles to make experience better. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And then there's the deconstruction of all of that. Exactly. Because then in non-duality, I only found out that, hey, there is a transcendence possible of all experience, which I didn't know prior that, that I was possible. I was looking for indescribable peace in experience, which can never be found. Yeah. So the seeking energy became very intense. I was watching those satsang every evening almost on YouTube. I lost interest in my social life and everything was also happening. Also Corona. I forgot about Corona, like all these things were going on in Holland and restrictions. I didn't care. I was on YouTube watching the satsang. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I actually also connected with the teacher. I did some sessions via Skype and which actually were a catalyst for the spiritual awakening that happened, I think a half year prior to realization. I would say that was like the second stage of the spiritual awakening because I think three or four months prior finding out about non-duality, I had a Kundalini awakening, which was quite intense. So that's actually what I would say the first part of spiritual awakening since you shift energetically to it. You have an energetic shift, which is very opening. The whole conditioned body and the conditioned mechanism started to be shaken up by this force of love, the Shakti, the life force. And that was actually triggered by a transmission that I received from a friend of mine, a friend now. She gave me a transmission from the crown chakra and which activated my Kundalini energy. And this is not something a lot of teachers talk about or speakers about non-duality. They kind of dismiss it, but to be honest, what I found is when I talk to people in my sessions who already had an awakening, they are less prone to only conceptualize everything. They're more open. It's just another way of understanding than people who haven't. That's why I talk about the importance of the life force energy. I'm not talking about Kundalini yoga. That is something else. That's a practice of will and Kundalini activation transmission that I received is a transmission and a relaxation that actually does itself. So that's the difference. And I only had, I think, three sessions, three transmissions and the life force energy awakened. That does not happen for everyone because she has a lot of groups that she gives these transmissions. I think the people that are not in this avoidance of emotions and really opening up and open-minded, it happens easier. That's what I observed from my own observations. So it's not that, oh, let me get a transmission and I will get a spiritual awakening. That's not how it is. There's more to it. But there has been a very strong catalyst for the opening up. So when I read about the fact that there is no free will, I did not only conceptualize it and put it into a box of knowing it did something to my energetic body. Some part of resistance fell away. And that's how I felt like, what is going on? So this vehicle, the body-mind vehicle, was already opening up. Yeah. Yeah. So there's two things that I'd like to cover, two threads. One of them, I think, is important to share, which is you give a macro-level perspective, which is that there is only God's will. There is only the singularity's will. So there's not an individuated expressions. We are being done. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's all being done. And then when the individual, at first, is seeking, let's say, that there are patterns of the way that they're expressing themselves, and it seems very frozen. We could say in an analogy, it feels like the way that they express themselves is very frozen because it's the repeating of the same patterns over and over again, patterns of separation or lack or unworthyness, fear, this type of thing. Then there's a recognition of some type of, you could say, desire to know why they suffer or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That was the reason why I started seeking, why do I don't have a peace of mind? Yes. That was the first question. And this is probably the most common one is that, okay, how do I be happy or how do I be peaceful? So that's probably most common, and then it gets deeper into knowing my true nature. And in that process is, you could say, the unfreezing of those repetitive patterns. So it shifts from repeating patterns unconsciously to, you could say, gaining more sovereignty, will or insight into nature. And then the process of like the surrender of will happens when you're merging more and more with what is. So there's almost like an, there's almost like an increase in will over a period of time and then a surrender of will to God's will in the big picture, none, but also simultaneously the appearance of there being an unfreezing and then a surrendering. I just wanted to clarify that, that that seemed to be important. Did that resonate? And then there's another thread that we can get to. Yes. That's a different explanation that I would use, but I sense what you mean. Yeah. As for me, I was, I was from this contracted personality looking for freedom. And in that, as I couldn't be found, because there was this misconception that I am a separate doer with free will and choice to make this or that happen. And that creates a lot of suffering because that's just a misconception from this contracted personality. So when I got clear on that misconception, that opened the portal to realizing what is freedom itself and still get to enjoy this appearance of a person. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm never avoiding it or trying to deny it. Yeah. The, the, the appearance in this separate person from the view, like the separate body, which is not separate at all, but it appears to be, right? We're not glued into each other. So yeah, this combination of what you talk from a bigger perspective and from a smaller perspective, collapse into one, as seen as they were never separate to collapse, but as a play of words, one could say that. Yeah. Nice. To speak about it as something like when you find yourself sort of trapped in those patterns, that that is the unconditional freedom expressing itself as being trapped in patterns. The unconditional freedom expressing itself as the appearance of gathering its will and then liberating itself from subconscious patterns of separation and lack. And then surrendering its will to the unconditional freedom that it already always was. It's just another way to, to share it. So it's always the unconditional freedom appearing as a spectrum of infinity, infinite possibility. Okay. So then this other thread that I wanted to pull on with you was that also in this last year you've spoken about how there was a falling away of veil of separation. Yes. Yes. So after having this spiritual awakening, I felt really expanded and really blissful. And I thought that was it. But I didn't say I'm realized that didn't happen, but I felt like there is something, some kind of a conclusion, but I couldn't really grasp what it was. But I think that was leaving the personal identity, but I couldn't find the words for it because it was so intense what actually happened. I felt very expanded, very blissful. A lot of seekers who haven't spiritual awakening might think it's a realization because it definitely feels more free than being in this contracted energy of a personal identity. So I felt like I shifted from being a person to consciousness. That's how I felt back then. And what actually happened then is a few months of a blissful expansion. I started to write a lot and about the awakening, write poetry and just dance in nature. And I don't know, just enjoy the wonder of being alive, but there was still seeking. So there was still the seeking energy. I kept listening to sad songs, but with a very, in a very happy state. So that took, I think, around two or three months. And then I think it started to dawn on me that there's really no separate door or like there's really no free will or choice in any of what's being done. And that kind of simultaneously triggered darkness, like a dark, dark night of, I wouldn't say soul, I would say will, the dark night of the will, I kind of slide it into that. As it started with frustration, I ended up most days for, I think, two or three months in severe anxiety and dread, which was not attached to anything external. It was just existential. So I would wake up. At that point, I wasn't really into stories anymore. So I would read dismiss all the stories that the mind came up with. But my body went into a fight-or-flight response because, yeah, of course, I can make up an explanation for it. I think it was just a start of the dawn on me that there is no me as I thought it was. And it was really energetic. So I would wake up with anxiety and then shift to dread and then just stare out of the window and thinking everything is so meaningless because I cannot make anything happen. But I still do think there is a me in here that makes things happen. And that's where I came across the communication of Jim Newman and Tony Parsons. So you can already sense how that was even more direct and more uncompromising than my advisor-teacher that I had my awakening with by watching his YouTube videos. So then I found myself becoming obsessed with watching those videos every evening and basically lost all interest in worldly things in my social life, work-wise. I lost all my ambitions, goals while I was an entrepreneur and I had a lot of ambitions. But I basically lost everything that I wanted. I didn't know what I wanted to achieve. I basically didn't want anything because it was so depressing just to realize there is no me that's in charge of what's happening here. I cannot even decide what thought I will have or desire will rise up in the next 10 minutes. I don't know. Yeah. And what I did at that period, I remember I stopped avoiding emotions. That actually happened already for a year that I just fell into whatever arise. I was really cautious of really spotting all my avoidance strategies, getting into the stories of what's happening, avoiding the raw sensations of being confronted with this direct message. But also in my private life being rejected by a close family member and someone that I liked. So there was a lot of emotional things going on as well, which were really a catalyst of kind of breaking down the protection mechanism, the walls, which one could refer to as the ego, which really has a function to keep you safe and from feeling, fear, pain, rejection, grief, sadness, all those things that we were conditioned that are not safe to feel, that we were unable to process it. So I was kind of rewiring that conditioning of feeling and then immediately avoiding it. So I was really in the dark night, I would really whenever the anxiety attacks would arise, I would really feel into those. And basically just lay on my bed for a half an hour and just do nothing. And just ask myself, how does it feel to be so anxious and to have so much dread? I talk a bit extended about this because a lot of seekers that are contacting me have these experiences. You see, it's not about the place and like that can happen as well in this journey of awakening. But a lot of people that watched in compromising messages, they go, oh my God, everything is crumbling and it's terrifying because it's seen that there is nothing to hold on. That was the most terrifying thing. There was nothing to hold. There is no strategy. There is no practice. This is it. And there is no illusion. But I feel as I am separate, but there is no separation. So it was really frustrating because there was also no hope at some point. There was no hope left to get what I want, realization, enlightenment. So I became really depressed for a few months and I've never had a real depression in my life. So that was new. I had sufferings and challenges, a divorce and things like that. So it's not that I haven't suffered, but it was not severe as that. So after those months of feeling through the pain and the most horrible attacks of anxiety and just sitting with it, with not trying to hide from it, was really what happened. And then at some point I was like, I'm waiting for the dread to move, but maybe I should just stop caring about it. And I kind of also got used to feeling like shit. After those months, you know, and I basically also fell through the most intense painful bits of the sensations of, of, of, of dread and anxiety. That at some point I just stopped being afraid of having anxiety or being afraid of having a dreadful day. So then it's, it moved, it moved on. And I kind of felt like I entered what Frank Yang would say, equanimity phase, equanimity. So I didn't care about being depressed. I didn't care, of course there was this inclination to pleasure and feeling good, but that really didn't matter that much anymore. So in that last month, prior realization of that veil of separation dropped away or actually nothing really dropped away, but it felt like something dropped away that was in front of my eyes. In that month prior to that, I didn't really care about realization anymore because I was seeing if it happens, there will still be this, this moment, this nanosecond of what's happening apparently. So I kind of lost hope that I'll gain something else than what's what's happening. So basically there was this moving on from the fantasy of getting enlightenment. There was a kind of a shift from that, like, OK, it's just this. So yeah, I'm dreaming to have this big party happening. That at some moment I will get realized, but I don't think it will. Because, you know what? I was calling Jim a few times and he basically said there is no illusion to get rid of. This is it. Yeah. So if there is an experience of separation, that's the absolute arising as an experience of separation. That's what longed for. So what I actually did, because there was still obviously a lot of resistance towards the experience of separation, I kind of brainwashed myself into thinking there was only perfection. I had it like as a reminder in my phone that went up every hour. So I would put it on. I had it on my screen. There was only perfection. There's only what's apparently happening. So it starts to rise conversation in my head arise. Emotions arise, resistance arise. That's just what's happening. So at some point there was just no. My kind of this body, mind vehicle got used to letting go of resistance very fast as it did. Arrows very good. And at some point it just stopped. Yes. So that was actually the reconditioning of of trying to manipulate what's happening. Because that's a very that's like the crown of the illusory separate self. It's always trying to manipulate what's happening. It's never good enough. Yeah, exactly. It had always could have been different. Well, couldn't because it's already happened. It's already history. You see, whenever something happens, it's already history. So that fell away. The dream of enlightenment fell away as a dream of something that would happen. And there was basically this desert period of just nothing to hold on. I didn't know what tomorrow will be like. I didn't know what next day, next moment will be like. So it was terrifying and uncomfortable, but that was what's happening. Because I recognize there is no me that can make anything happen other than what's happening by itself. I know this might sound very terrifying for a lot of people that are listening now that being in this floating place of not knowing. Yeah. Like not having any sense of control, although it's like false security, like even losing that dream of false security. That was terrifying. And that's also the face where a lot of people run back to something to hold on to a method to something to do. But actually is the opposite. It's just not doing those things. Then conditional freedom found in the mystery. Exactly. Yeah. And at some point there was a day where I was dancing in my living room and then there was this thought that, oh, yeah, I was sitting with this pointer that I got from someone that there is still a fear to lose the illusory separate self. What's that fear? So I was sitting with that pointer because I didn't know what that fear was. And then all of a sudden there was a fear that arose that said, if I will lose the separate me, I will lose my funny crazy side. And then there was another thought that arose. But hey, there is already no me. And then that view of separation, which was like some kind of cling foil. I was in front of my eyes, just fell. And I remember I was looked up and I saw the walls and they were so spacious. Like in one second, everything became spacious. It's not that I saw something else, but this was just empty. Appearance. And I turned off the music, sat down on my couch and I was looking at what the heck is this? Because there were no words. No thing to nothing to associate this with. It was not an experience. It was not an experience. So I couldn't even think that this is enlightenment, that I didn't think that at all that whole evening because there was just no, I couldn't relate it to anything. It was nothing that I've expected from realization at all. And then I just spent the whole night just in my bed afterwards. And I I couldn't explain what happened. At that moment, I didn't think that I was realized because I was just like, what the heck is this? It's so clear, spacious and fascinating, wide walls that are so alive, pure aliveness. In this simple house that I'm living in, I've never seen it, how fascinating the appearance already is. And nothing changed. It's not that I see something else than I saw before. It's just it's not an experience. There is no experiencer that is experiencing the walls or the house or sitting or anything. So everything became very immediate. I remember the day after I looked in, I think the first moment that I looked in the mirror, I saw a body in the mirror, not a reflection of myself. Yeah, it's as if you see a friend standing in the mirror next to you. You see the body in the mirror, right? You don't see a reflection of you from his back. So that's how I saw myself. Also called the headless way. I think so. I think so. And then I was like, oh, my God, I think I've lost the center because the seeing, I don't know where the scene is coming from. I couldn't locate the scene. And that's when I thought, I think this is realization. Because before that, the day before that, I just couldn't relate it to any word. Like transcending spirit, you cannot as an experiencer, you cannot imagine how it is to transcend experience. It's just impossible. You can't get it like an idea, but it's nothing like the real thing because it's not a thing. So then I started free falling. So the veil of separation stopped happening. And then I started free falling into unknowing, which is also like the same as transcending the mind. So I felt insane and my mind felt like it was going insane. And I felt like a child, like a baby. And then I was like playing in my house, like, oh, my God, I don't. I also thought, like, is this alignment? This is so weird because I don't feel in line. I feel like crazy, like something in between an insane person and a baby. And I didn't feel special at all. That was the funny thing. I thought as a secret, I thought this alignment is an add on. You see that I add on to myself and I will feel more special or more wordy or at least better. But I didn't feel like a difference from a plastic cup. And myself, when I looked at other appearances. I didn't see it like a difference between this body and that appearance. Like it's just the same, but it just looks different. So I didn't feel special at all. It was very humbling, to be honest. It's very humbling. And the funny thing was that I realized there is no me to become enlightened. There is only enlightenment. There's only wholeness, which is already enlightened. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. And that forgetting of it also an inevitable phase, forgetting that you're also it. Yeah. So then there are a few crazy weeks, but not in a weird way that I would like nobody noticed anything like it's not that I did something disturbing, but I really felt insane for a few weeks. But I was enjoying it because I felt so like I felt like drunk on love. Yeah. High on life. But in a very grounded and very immediate way. So it was not as a spiritual awakening that was looked very blissful. And there was, of course, bliss, but it was very clear also. And still, like there was this constant, this stillness was. I don't know how to explain it. There was constant in my ears. I don't care how much thoughts were arising. There was still this stillness in my ears. Yeah. And from that on, yeah, I think after that, I started to share about this because there was so much inspiration. And I think just this freedom to express myself the way I the way that felt felt natural. So then I started to use Instagram for sharing and Facebook and created a YouTube channel and just started talking in front of a camera. And that's what I still do now. So hold sessions with people because I worked as an integrative coach prior and now I'm also combining those skills with non-duality. Yeah, you're a very good listener. You haven't interrupted me once. There's so much goodness, you know, coming through. So so there's only these little windows to like add a small bit to like to play on and and now there'll be something new and fresh that emerges that just complements what you just shared. It's really great. Yeah, it it seems to be most direct to to share that there is only wholeness and or freedom. And it's appearing in infinite potential. So there is the potential of it appearing like it's forgetting itself. And then the experience of separation. Yeah, yeah, and so then the rocket ship, you could say is to just recognize that there's no possibility for something to be lost. Yeah, yeah. And that the you that you've associated yourself with your whole life has been like the body, like your brain and that you're actually you're an infinite field. Yeah, and a field is is energy and energy is no thing. It's not a thing and it's also everything. And so it's yeah, so the shift in identity from the appearance of forgetting to remembering is just shifting from being the brain in a body and being attached to identity, personal to just being pure potentiality actualizing itself via what you could say is the appearance of universes and conscious agents and dancing with each other on planets orbiting stars, which is just a bunch of story that we're saying right now. And that just feels that feels like freedom. You know, that feels like freedom, but then it's not just the feeling and the simultaneity of knowing and unknowing. So the simultaneity of of of being it and also being mystery is there's no way to describe it. It's to be and not to be. It isn't. It isn't. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And it seems like a paradox, but it isn't because there are no two, right? It's a complete mind. Most of the people that I encountered, they say, I got my mind. I got so many main mind folks today by watching non-duality and hearing this message. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's so interesting because because, yeah, there's a there's like a stuckness to tooness. Yeah, it's like really sticky. Like subjectivity and objectivity. Yeah, and awareness. Oh, like a lot of people that are actually in the last stage prior realization gets stuck with this awareness trap, like trying to be aware as if it's possible not to like and, you know, and making that a stumble block. Well, it's actually not needed to be that way. That was actually the last hold on that I had trying to be aware. And then I was like, OK, there is no choice in this practice doing it or not. It just happens or not. And then there was just nothing to hold on. So just knowing our consciousness or awareness was also set free. Yeah. Was nobody trying to get it. Yeah. As if it's lost by trying to get it. You're confirming that it's not here. Yes. Yes. That what you're looking for is not this. What's happening is not good enough. We need to have something else in order to become the freedom that already is. So that's an avoidance mechanism. So actually a lot of awakened people that are not realized yet. And that's a desire because not for everyone that is a desire, which is completely fine because there is no rule to have it or not. They're avoiding that there is this avoidance of realization by doing all these hold ons. Yes. That's why I talk about this awareness trap also. My I think also Frank Yang mentioned it in one of his vlogs. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good video. Yeah, because there's a simultaneity of of no stages and stages. And yeah, one could say that. The most contracted sense of identity, brain, body is ego that's constantly seeking externally. And then there's this like relaxation into awareness. And then there's a shift into, OK, well, awareness is still a duality. There's awareness, a subject, and then there's object. And then there's a collapsing of that duality into everything is God. I am everything. And then there's a realization of the other side of the coin, which is that, well, I am also a formless nothing. And that that sort of obliterates any last little bit of a contracted sense of self behind the eyes. And so then you get the two sides of the coin, which is no self and capitalist self or nothing and everything. And then the more that you sort of even relax the conceptual juggle and you relax like wanting to be no self or wanting to be capitalist self and all this stuff, then you could say like there's a natural state that just emerges when you transcend all possible concepts of trying to say what you are and you just are it. But then the key thing about you just are it that I've seen is that you get expressions of that where it is just talked about. But it's not. It's not like vibrational or it's not actually expressed. So meaning like if you were truly expressing that last stage, you could say that the way it would express itself would be in pure service to life. In a sense, it wouldn't be trying to still extract things from life. So if you claim that you've reached some sort of natural state of existence and then you're still run by subconscious patterns of shadow and of doubt and unworthiness and fear and seeking validation. Yeah, you're still trying to get the flow towards your direction instead of just flowing out. Yes, yes, exactly. And so then you could say that that's the generosity versus consumption to the extent. And so basically, if there is a if there is a claim to be at an natural state, then the expression is solely generosity. And so then that becomes more energetic or becomes vibrational when you're around people. So no matter how, no matter what people say about themselves, you can dig deeper than words into the energy of it, the vibration of it. You can sense generosity versus consumption. Yeah, yeah, it's really the needy needlessness. Yeah, yeah, that arises from it. And that doesn't mean that there can be desires. I think as long as there is a body, there are desires. But it's completely different. It's just what's happening and the main flowing is outwards. There's just this flow going outwards. And that doesn't mean we lose the human capacities, certainly not. I don't think that people will notice anything when they are around me like I function like a normal person. But there is this indescribable sense of fulfillment which makes one transcend neediness. Yes. And that's very liberating, very freeing, yeah. And that certainly doesn't mean that one solely commits to service because there are different characters and different expressions and different ways of service one can commit to or not. That's all that you see. And for males and females, that's also expressing different because the constellation of the body is just different. So for me, there is also a lot of playful time for play and dance and creativity next to the sessions that I offer and the content that I put out. I found out to be so important. Yeah. And that's a quality that I honor. I've honored the feminine essence because by honoring that, I make the body-mind vehicle more like energetic-wise balanced and the being can just express itself in a more clear and focused way than if I wouldn't honor my essence. Yeah. Yes. As a polarity, yeah. On a relative level, we're still having the limits of that, which doesn't have to feel like a limit. There's so much to play with entanglement where there's no difference between the absolute and the relative, yet there is also an apparent difference where we talk about things like masculine and feminine and polarities. Yeah. Polls. I agree to put it like where we use concepts to generate a difference between physicalism and consciousness or whatever. And in doing so, it just, yeah, I guess it enables the absolute to have a conversation about what's appearing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it really creates the fun, the polarity, the opposite polarities. I also usually say it's the celebration of unconditional love and unconditional freedom expressing itself as being an honor polarity. Which can be quite a learning process in how to find this experiential wholeness as being expressed in a polarity, right? Yes. Yes. I don't know if that's sound, for me, that sounds very conceptual, but I don't know why I expressed it that way. I guess that's what wanted to be expressed. To me, it seems like what is arising right now is it's arising the in a sense, it's like the desire for the absolute to know itself at a deeper level. But for example, for me, the entire point of the universe is that the entire point of the universe is to have an absolute intelligent, infinite energy, explore, expand. And the way that it shows up is not limited to anything that we are generating by concepts in mind. So, yeah. So, yeah, at some point, like we said a little bit earlier that a service doesn't have to show up in any specific boxed way, and that's a great point. Yet also, it's clear in a sense, the freedom also is not only omnipresent, but it's also a one of the coolest, you could say, tastes of freedom is to serve. And yeah, so you can be free sitting in your room by yourself where you could be free when somebody doesn't have their basic needs met or when they're struggling with suffering and you serve them because they're seeking wholeness or healing. So, yeah. So that's a little contrast, at least indeed. It's such a joy to share and to serve. And to it's really the joy sometimes really overflows me on certain moments of the day after a conversation, during a conversation or by creating content. It's just it then it's just seen that this is what's longed for to share. And it's just love expressing itself. I don't feel like I'm creating the content or that I'm doing it or that I don't I certainly don't speak from knowledge since I don't have that much spiritual knowledge. I really speak from realized wisdom and it really feels like unconditional love is unconditional freedom is flowing through these body, mind, vehicle. And it has a certain taste to it because this character is obviously different from another character and the language that I use and the way I make analogies and descriptions is different. But it's such it has been such a joy ever since the moment that I started to share. Yeah. And the brain is so efficient with using all the qualities that I have and also certainly have some qualities. I don't I'm not that technical and stuff, but everything figures itself out. Because this is so aligned. Yeah, I think this is the first time I've ever used this word. Aligned. Yeah. Yeah, but in this context, it was just perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, another way that aligned can be put into the context of a peak archetype or symbol could be said that when your thoughts, speech and action are all aligned in an example like Gandhi. And the level of just just nonviolent a catalysis for spiritual awakening is just it's just unprecedented in examples like that. And it it's a great North Star or symbol or archetype to again, it's a big array of colors or like a palette. And so it's not to box, you know, pure service as that. And that's the way it shows up. But that there is yeah, yeah, you yeah, you just being Samadhi in your room by yourself is service. So there's there's many and so this is a good example is that yeah, it's also it is also service for for the one to you know, this this gets into territory that is a little bit more difficult to comprehend or to explain. But it's just that even the one appearing as suffering as the disaster and war and basic needs not being met and all these things, even that still serves infinity in its exploration. And it's indeed it's inevitable face. Yes, yes, yes, indeed. Yes. And what I wanted to mention about service, yes, service has two faces. It were either serving ourselves or reserving the other. And serving the other is the most fulfilling. But what appears most of a lot of service that appears in the world at this moment now right now is really only serving themselves, which is very understandable because as long as there is this experience of separation and lack and there is no clarity on that, there is no honesty about that. Because there's I'm certainly not judging anyone who sometimes feels that because that's a natural natural face as one enters freedom prior to that. But before this recognition, the service will always be self-centered, even if that can be like very high hidden or people try to hide that. But the most fulfilling is when it's really for the other and you get just to get the joy of it, of doing it, just expressing what needs to be expressed, you know? Oh, yeah, because I have had faces in my life where I thought I was serving. I was first I had my own business in stationary art and later as an integrative coach practice, I thought I was serving. But a lot of my conversations were still were not 100 percent free. There was still a self image that wanted to be protected or defended. Well, it was a client session. They pay me for it. And I was very honest with me about that. Like I did confront myself and I learned from it. But it was just hopeless. That's what I found out like because first I had this shift to like an ambition phase from to a purposeful driven. That's where I started my coaching presence and did become a licensed coach. But I still was like, yeah, it's still someone so unfulfilling because I'm seeing I'm serving me because now I feel good about myself having this purpose and helping these clients. Well, still, some shadows will pop up and really kind of disturb the the session. And of course, most clients don't even notice. But yeah, at some point, I was like, oh, my God, separate self. I need to get rid of it. Of course, that's not not how I ended up thinking about it. But at the beginning, it was like, oh, my God, no matter what I do, as long as there is this separate self, it will ruin ruin the whole party. Yeah, I also didn't take it too serious. I was very playful with myself. But yeah, it was the way it is. Yeah. The universe is a birthday party being ruined by the separate self. It's a celebration of unconditional freedom and unconditional love that actually can be ruined, but it can seem as if it's getting ruined. Yeah. It's just like when it's like the person that comes to the party and then they like talk really loudly only about themselves to everybody else, like, yeah, interrupting conversations to just focus people's attention on themselves or whatever. That can arise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is kind of like what it feels like, like on like the macro scale, like in terms of the planet, like, yeah, like one big expression of the one that feels unworthy and then seeks its other selves to validate itself. Yeah. Yeah. And then the liberation from that is then the always already free or wholeness, yeah, which can then be leveraged as a channel of service. Exactly. Usually when that transformation happens is when people they still have this quality of wanting to talk about them. Some people are just talkers and there's nothing wrong with it. But then that quality is used in a way to serve people. So then they use their story or their example to to benefit other people. So they still get get to have the talk if they are talkers. But now it's a catalyst for for yeah, freedom or purpose or whatever that might be for for different characters. But it's just like I see a lot of qualities that people have that are not necessarily bad, but it's just by this belief of lack, they are not expressed in their purposeful way. You see? Yes. Yeah, like we just talked about this on yesterday's show on radical self-acceptance, where we mentioned the the difference between when an artist is still coming from a place that is intertwined with unworthiness and seeking motivation versus when they're just this channel. Yeah, exactly. Such a cool difference. Yeah, it is. It is. And you see, there is also this spiritual misconception that after realization one has to behave a very humble way or not even talk about them. So like that's bullshit. You can still talk as much as you want, but it's not coming from a place of lack. For instance, I benefit exactly, exactly. I benefited so much from the videos from Frank Yang, and he totally talked a lot about his experiences and afterization as well, but it really was benefiting so much. And it's even worse. It's selfish to not share. Exactly. It can be like that. Yeah, but you know, after I realized freedom, their selfishness can't rise anymore. There can be a priority of well-being of oneself, which there's nothing wrong with that. But what do you mean? Yeah, that, yeah. All these other selves that are seeking, and you're on some mountaintop, I'm too good to share. Well, I don't think that will arise, but there are a lot of people. It has a reason for sure. There are people that just say there's nothing to do, and they don't feel motivation to do it. But you know what, who am I to force them to do anything or to say that they should share? Like, I have already a friend that just had a realization, I think, two months ago, and she just doesn't get anything done. She says, like, it just doesn't happen. I don't know what to do. And it's just, I don't feel like doing anything, and just taking a shower and eating some things and just having a walk, that's it. So who am I to say that she should do anything? But it will arise when it will arise. Like, I don't think that we can stay in this non-doing for too long. Like, that gets boring, so the body, mind, vehicle will find itself a purpose for activity that they will enjoy doing every moment. Yeah, because even non-doing is an activity. Exactly, yeah. I tried so often to stop seeking. I had to seek her. And I remember my advisor teacher would go like, yeah, there's no you to decide to stop seeking. Like, there's just seeking energy that will exhaust itself. And I was so frustrated. Why can't I just stop seeking? Then the whole seeking will be over. Yeah, yeah. And then afterwards, I let go of that as well. But you know, in this community of non-duality that I encountered on Instagram, a lot of people are in this phase of dark nights slash frustration with seeking. And I really don't know what to do with themselves. Just lately in the last month, I encountered a lot of conversations with people who are finding themselves in this desert period. That's why I also promised them that I will make a video on this dark night and what I did, what did not do, what helped, what didn't. And really trying to elaborate more on that, to connect with them on that phase because it's really an emotional roller coaster, pre-awakening, after-awakening. That I'm surely not denying that it is not easy. Yeah, waking up from the dream of separation, waking up from the dream of having a contracted sense of identity that you are manipulating everything arising to try and extract and consume things for that contracted sense of identity. And so waking up from that is... Yeah, be very intense and destroying. But it's liberating and it's truth and it's freedom and it's bliss and it's activation of service and all this type of stuff. And so the entanglement is so present there. And so to just decipher between like dark night and honor, pure service, just decipher. Yeah, reach out if someone was watching this video and is really in this desert place or dark night or whatever. Reach out. You don't have to sit there alone trying to figure it out. Just reach out. Yeah. One of the biggest things that is evolving is spiritual communities. But the key thing there is there is a good amount of spiritual community that is still in what you could say is more of a hippie, like a hippie face. Yeah. And there's major variations of spiritual communities. But like Nargisa is sharing right now, there is spiritual community that is resonant for you. And so to sort of tune into like, okay, well, going and following her on Instagram or following her on YouTube and then reaching out for a one-on-one and just seeing what happens, like, was that actually resonant? Who else does she follow? Who else does she talk to? Yeah, I don't really talk too much about spirituality. Most of what I talk about is non-duality. But I'm sure there are people that will resonate with the way I talk, the way I speak. I also, yeah, offer people a clear understanding in their emotional, how emotions get in the way of seeing things clearly and how we can have clarity on what not to do on when emotions get really intense or are being avoided, that really makes it more easier. To understand what's really going on and then liberation from that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And then there's other tastes of what you could say spiritual community or non-dual community or however you want to call it. Where there's more focus on purification. There's more focus on just seeing patterns of consciousness and becoming more interested in when you come from a place of unworthiness or lack or separation or whatnot versus when you come from a place of honor and pure service. And so there's, and these are things like the no limit society, which is what we're building here. And there's so many other examples of spiritual community across the planet. And so just to tune in to maybe what is going on for you right now is that there's a persistence on mainstream society. Like there's a hook, as we could say, where there's a pattern of expression that's addicted to what society has taught you. And it's been programmed in like malware. And so now it's running the show, which is I have to work in a career that's in mainstream society. I have to earn money to pay for my rent and my bills. I have to eat a certain way. I have to consume certain media. I have to be a part of certain economies and certain nations and go to these certain things with my family. And that is all a bunch of just thoughts. It's just mind activity. And the difference is to see that there is more than just all of that malware. And what is more than that malware is pure unconditional freedom itself, which is freedom from all those thoughts, freedom from all of that mind chatter. And usually it's enhanced by surrounding yourself with other people that are rooted in the unconditional freedom itself. So there's no better way to perpetually be unconditionally free, which is what you already are, than to get involved with other selves that are that and that are only that. And don't subscribe to the malware, which is everything that we were programmed to do. I actually never watched the news. So when there's something extreme happens, I hear it from my mom. Or I don't. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't knew that there was a new restriction that we had to wear the mask in the shops recently here in Holland. I didn't know. I just people said to me in the store and it was fine. So that's actually something that's limiting the the the the malware in my life. Yeah. Yeah, it just doesn't happen anymore. It's just nothing interesting out there. Yeah, there are a few more modern channels that are things like basically telegram groups. Yeah. Yeah. That have a greater focus on the nature of reality and and build building Shambhala basically and shifting away from the polarized media and the governments and economies that are centralized. All a gargoyle. Yeah, it's a great shift that's happening also on financial liking. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's like a very main fundament from this decentralization because money is really important to it's equal safety for most people. So that shift was a major one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that shift is 13 years old. And it only really became popular, you could say within the last like five years and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With without a doubt that's a that's a core pillar of where we're heading. And you see this is another thing you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater which is continuously done by I see it continuously being done in non duality, which is that what we call manifestation. Has no feedback loop into experience, which it does. It does a centralized government and economy has a different feedback loop into your experience than a decentralized government and economy. One of them being focused on the whole and being focused on the actualization of collective potential and another one being focused on a select few. And that's just going to have a different feedback loop into experience. And so the more that the more that consciousness wakes up to its nature, the more that the expression or the manifestation actually serves the whole. And so that's a critical thing. So everything you do with shadow work. Everything you do with the conditioning yourself from separation it feeds back into the manifestation being more oriented towards the whole. Yeah. Sure. Shadow work is a major one. I see a lot of especially male seekers who are kind of skipping that because that's the daily work that people don't want to do. Including me. Yeah. Well, I didn't sense a lot of walls hanging out with you. Yeah. But in the last year, though, that was a good for me in the last year. It's a good catch to in a sense be like, there's no walls. And then realize that that's actually compensation for the fact that there still have been some roots to dive into to liberate oneself from which in the last four months, especially being here. Yeah. Hang around with other people. Yeah. I have already seen those patterns of shadow and consciousness. Then there's a greater amount of, ah, I see where I was coming from and where there was actually a greater amount of freedom and a greater amount of dropping walls that was actually enabled. And so it feels. Yeah. It feels so much better. 100% though on men, especially. Yeah. Yeah. It's really important. Like what I see a lot of people that ask questions, especially on Instagram or like I have conversations with, there is this in non-duality. There is this bypassing mechanism going on that people want realization or enlightenment to get rid of the suffering. Well, the suffering is actually the key when it's really truly felt true and embraced as far as that's possible. So then enlightenment becomes an avoidance strategy of what is. Well, enlightenment is a concept. Realization is a concept. There's only what's apparently happening. And if that's pain and there is like this avoidance of pain and running away, that will go on endlessly running away from shadows, running away from pain. So that's not something that works in the path to liberation or this so called path to enlightenment. We're opening up everything that's not free here bit by bit. So the last shackle or how to say it in English will be stumbled away. And that can happen in a moment of grace or just in a moment of destroyment. And yeah, there has to be this willingness to open up. So you can't just want freedom, but still holding back. It's not free here. So I really encourage people to do the dirty work because that was being avoided in non-duality community. Non-duality world. Nice. Yeah. Nice. I'm glad that you also really clearly see that. Yeah. Because it's it is because it's funny when when when people come to me and ask what to do what not to do. And then they want an advice. But when I hit the most painful spot, there is this response of yeah, but there isn't anybody that can do anything. Right. And then I go, oh, we have a great bypassing here going on. All of a sudden there isn't anyone to do. But first she came here for advice. So who's that one then trying to get advice. And now denying that there isn't me like then there is that that's used as a bypass like Advaita bypassing. Yeah. So that doesn't work with me. I can just see through that immediately. And because I've trained myself to as a seeker to see that I didn't accept. I think one, like me, people ask me how come that was so fast. The realization has happened relatively fast. I think I was just confronting myself with every bit of avoidance in that last phase prior realization. Of course, the direct point of the speakers. That was just amazing. That had happened compromising on reality messages as to start off with and then uncompromising message to finish off all the hope that was left for a false sense of security in the future to be realized. But surely this confronting the willingness to confront this eagerness to do the dirty work as well. I think I assume that played a big role in this liberation. And I encourage people to look inwards in that same confrontational way. Because I'm not special at all, not more intelligent than most people. I didn't have that much luck, I wouldn't say with all these things. It's really the willingness to confront and not hide, not avoid. And yeah, that's where freedom lies. Beautiful. There's a self-inquiry component and the self-inquiry component is not solely the intellectual recognition of non-duality. That's a part of it. There's the liberation from all the roots of conditioning that have been running the show. And I'm really happy that doing the work is something that you also share. Because yeah, when non-duality goes directly to there is no you to do shadow work. It's really good actually, it's really good to mention that point. Just check in like when you dedicate your life so much to service that you recognize that doing the cleanup and going on the offense with doing the cleanup. So like getting really excited about doing clean up actually leads you to pure service. Which is what the whole game of the absolute is even about. That's what the game is. So you may as well turn in, clean up all the conditioning, separation, lack beliefs, unworthiness, seek validation. And then purify where you're coming from in your expression so that when you do serve, it's never coming from a place that's other than emptiness. That's always just coming from that. And it's not picking up any of those little bits of separation while it's on its way out. It's so good because the feedback loop becomes, it's like the most delicious meal that you can possibly eat. Five star chef courses from around the world over and over again. It is. In the days. Yeah, it's not expressed, it can't be expressed in words. That joyful fulfillment, right? Yeah, that is. And you know the opportunity to do shadow work is actually arising every day. They can be a trigger, especially as we're still seeking every day. There is a trigger. So how is that dealt with? Is that of being avoided? Or is that really felt through the sensation of that contracted energy that we call emotion energy in motion that wants liberation. That's why it's triggered. It wants to free itself. Usually what happens is in the most intense moment of that, there is this resistance comes in and it's just left there. It's just left because resistance is inevitable. At the beginning, but at some point, it has to be seen that it's not working. It's keeping itself in hostage. Yeah. So there isn't surely there isn't the someone that can choose and to do it, but there is a brain that can pick up on the wisdom that is shared by us by other people. And by having that in this storage of information, making other choices in the future, that happens, apparently, but it happens. So that's why this information is shared because we are a functioning organism that is the brain is functioning and making choices and and weighing options based on the information that it has and doesn't have. So that does influence even though there is no separate me is a lot of people and non-duality love to talk about when a painful moment arises. Yeah, but there is no me or you know what people also sometimes say is that there is a painful emotion. They go like, yeah, but nothing is real. Anyway, so why feel that emotion? It's not real. Yeah. What happened? It's so good. I got rejected, but it's not real. Right. The same person goes to have a conversation with someone else like an hour later. And in that conversation, you'll clearly see them coming from a place that's like trying to get validation from that other person because they actually haven't done the work. So if they would do the work, which is going into their heart and their gut and the conditioning, then feeding the pain. Then what was just intellectual about non-duality actually becomes visceral, which shows up as pure service in that conversation they would have an hour later. They wouldn't be trying to extract any validation at all. It will be a lot less. Yeah. Yeah. So it shows up in the way you express yourself. It shows up. Of course. There is no hiding. We can try to hide, but there's no escape. Sooner or later, it will rise backfire. So good. So good. Yeah. Some sexy ass notes over there. Hi everyone. We love you so much. Oh, do we have comments? We're streaming this. Yeah. There's some people watching. Social comments. 27 people right now. Love you guys. Aww. Aww. So cute. One of the best channels there is. High five. Good job guys. Yeah. There's so many other great, like Nargis having her YouTube channel. I highly recommend you guys to tune in. Aww. Thanks guys. You're so cute. Jason. Aww. Michael. Source healing. Thank you my friends. Aww. Aww. So sweet. So much gratitude itself. So much gratitude. Yeah. It's really been expressed. Yeah. So, so in the links in the bio, you'll find Nargis' YouTube channel. You'll find her Instagram. Awesome pages to go and follow. Great content on there. And soon we'll have the link to her website later this month, which will be unconditional-freedom.com. Still working on it. And that link will be in the bio once it's available. That will be the main portal where people can book sessions. Exactly. Yeah. So, right now it's just via email. Instagram and yeah, yeah, yeah. DMs on Instagram and then at this moment it is. Cool. So book a session also if you'd like. Only if it resonates. Yes. So with this video, if the conversation on unconditional freedom triggered something powerful in you, we would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. So leave a comment with how it influenced you. And also if it influenced you positively, like the video because that helps the algorithm. Subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet. And also share the video with others that you know it would positively influence. So this is a great opportunity to take a great conversation on unconditional freedom and share it with people that you feel like are beginning to tune into this. And then just have them watch it. And then get into a conversation with them about what came up for them during it. I would also be curious if people can share their most valuable insight from this conversation. I'm just curious. That's awesome. In the comments. Yeah. Your most valuable insight from the conversation. Yeah. That's great. Drinking the last drop of water. And we'll go. Nice. Yeah. I feel like we're going to wrap it up. What's the time now? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great. Exactly 90. Like we planned 90 minutes and yeah. And we covered all the awesome topics we wanted to talk about. Love you a lot. Love you too. Thank you. So cool. Lovely to do this to have this conversation. Yeah. This wonderful space. Yeah. And the lines. Yeah. And the sound. Yeah. Supporting. Exactly, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And just what a beautiful, beautiful energy you are. Thank you. So good. Thank you, Mirror. So courageous. Seriously. Really courageous. Yeah. So much easier without the self-critic. Yeah. Which I used to have my whole life. Would prevent me from sharing my, my, my skills. And just expressing myself. And now that's just not happening anymore. I still make mistakes. I still say some things wrong. Maybe some words. English is not my native language. But it's, you know what? I don't care. It's just so joyous. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Don't forget that we will speak Russian. Yeah, yeah. We forgot. We forgot. Now we will speak Russian. Yeah. You are God. You are all God. Finish the conversation. Thank you. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you. Oh my god, she's so cute. Yeah, that was really a surprise. You surprised me with that fact. So you can speak Russian. Yeah. That was cool. Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, Ann, do you speak Dutch too? Yeah. And English, which is really cool? Yeah. Recently I started speaking English. So cool. Recently and still so fluent? Which is great. Yeah. Thank you. So cool. It's been a blast hanging out here. Such a blast. And now we're gonna have dinner and make a walk. Exactly, yeah. Exactly, a walk on the town, baby. So fun. Cool. And the beginning of a beautiful friendship also. So many more cool creations come between us. So stay tuned. All right, fam, love you so much. Infinite love, thank you for tuning in. Thank you. Bye. Mm-hmm.