 Hey everyone. Hey everybody. This is amazing stage, isn't it? It is literally like a tree stump So Alexia you are a former editor for tech crunch. You're now in the world of VC Why are you so worried about the state of media right now? Whoo. All right. Well, we've got 22 minutes. I could actually spend 22 hours or 22 years talking about this The reason I'm concerned about it, and I think the reason Everyone should be concerned about it Has to do with the fact that the current business model is rewarding the worst angels of our our nature so we've gone from print dollars to web pennies on a on a Add spaces so I guess you're saying about the shift You know when we think about companies like the New York Times in the past being multiple multiple billion dollar companies Yeah, this shift away from print to digital, but why is that a concern for you? What what's the issue? so I think it's I think in order to get those ad dollars media companies have resorted to volume plays and Volume plays really play to face human desires. So you you know You're an editor yourself. You've seen your chart beat base human desires anger Free stuff winning You know random tweets things that human things that humans Really don't I think a lot of this stuff is is maybe related to what's going on in the world right now I'm sure many people in the audience here. We're worried about what's happening with Brexit, you know that the B word I promise I'd never mentioned today Within the European Union and obviously where where you are from the u.s. I have the T word the T word Well, I mean what what why is it now that you're worried about it? Has there been something that's really prompted you or caught your attention? Yeah, I think what's prompted me and what's called us caught my attention is fake news And so I think the internet presents information in an equal format So an article from the New York Times and an article from Hillary Clinton invented AIDS Ru or whatever your fake news site is Looking look very similar. Yeah, so readers are are coming across these articles and taking the information On each at the same value So that's creating kind of an alternate reality for all the people that aren't using critical thinking to filter out their news But do you think that people generally everyday consumers of news? Do they understand that difference? Do you think there are people out there that can understand that nuance? I mean I look at my Facebook feed now, and it's even telling me when things are fake So I think media people could understand that nuance because we're we're dealing it with it all the time We have media literacy. That's our whole jobs, but I think the average person is Very confused by Journalism by online media by the purpose of media by all of the jargon that we use so off the record anonymous sourcing they're confused as As to why you'd have journalistic standards at a blog or Journalistic standards at the New York Times, and you wouldn't have journalistic standards on something like Info wars. Yeah, I think we're not doing a very good job or people in media are not doing a very good job of explaining the value of Quality journalism versus just bloggy writing and so much of this really comes down to trust, doesn't it? I mean, I'm really curious. We have an amazing audience here right now Can I have a show of hands to see does anyone feel that they've lost trust with the media? Do you have you so we've got a couple here? Say that's a sizable chunk of people here with our with our sample at slush I mean, we asked them whether it's because the media is doing a bad job Yeah, do you believe the media is doing a bad job? There's a few people out there. Do you think it's because it's too biased? Yeah, so over to you for the solution ha ha. How do we rebuild trust in the media? What do we build trust in the media? So for one we have to eliminate the ad-based business model I think people value things that they pay for and I think if somebody pays ten dollars a month for a subscription to some news site That's gonna pay for fact-checking. That's gonna pay for editing. That's gonna pay for Better quality quality journalists, but do you believe that's universe? I mean I look across the media in the UK where I'm from and there are many touch points that people receive free newspapers at the train station We have we have a state broadcast to the BBC which we kind of pay for in a different way But not everyone pays for media. Do you think it's everyone should I think everyone should in some form I don't think it's an all-or-nothing model. It's it's all a cart. It's multiple revenue revenue streams So it's some free some paid some events some Tote bags, I guess is what BuzzFeed's trying. Yeah, wasn't it the BuzzFeed solution to financial model was selling some tote bags? Tote bags and kitchenware, so they're selling pots and pans at Walmart But no, I think first off you have to you have to kind of rethink the model of media I don't think the ad model is serving anyone except for the T word and Kanye and Boris Johnson and a bunch of media savants that have figured out how to catch our attention or manipulate our attention because When writers write about the T word or the B word people read and that makes more money. There's a The New York Times and a couple of different outlets have talked about how they got a Trump bump Which is after the 2016 election many more people subscribed Why because that that media savant knows very well how to attract our attention through getting us angry through calling Mexicans bad things through manipulating People's nationalistic desires He's he is very good at getting us to pay attention to him and unfortunately the display ad model Rewards that rewards people covering that so I think we need to wean ourselves off of ads We know ourselves off of Facebook and Google and figure out other ways to support journalism That's one way another way is to actually as tech people build in mechanisms for trust So I'm invested in a company called true story and what true story is trying to do is trying to use consensus to verify claims on the internet and They're rewarding people who want to think critically about claims to go in and either up voter claim or down voter claim What Facebook's doing with the the flags on whether a story is disputed or not That's the same kind of a mechanism But would you say that the crowd is always the most wise on the internet? I mean we've we've seen this go wrong a few times. No, nothing's perfect Alex Nothing's perfect wiki wikipedia seems to work, but again, you can put a quote on wikipedia and Have it have weeks pass before someone catches that it's fake. Yeah Nothing's perfect. It's it's approximating truth approximating honesty see the thing that I've so as they mentioned in the introduction I'm an exit entrepreneur. I've sold to Forbes and in my journey of learning about a company like Forbes It's been really interesting to learn about the contributor model. So right now we have 380 plus writers across Europe who are effectively freelance contributors they they contribute columns to Forbes website and as An editor as a traditional journalist I found that a really interesting concept to get my head around because it's like this giant newsroom across all of Europe All these people putting different views in but actually the more I've learned about that process I think it's quite beautiful because it means that we have this Multiple viewpoints across Europe. We have viewpoints that us's traditional staff writers would never think of and I actually believe that It is a really potentially a big part of the future of media. I mean, would you agree? I? Unfortunately, I am suspect of contributor models. I think a Lot of the times the voices that you get into those models aren't them aren't the most vetted voices I think they're definitely Very biased they have incentives to to write on your platform whether that incentive is pushing promoting their startup Promoting their their services or promoting some ideology I think that there's a similar issue with native ads. So I I read the statistic somewhere that 18 percent of of Readers knew what a native ad was that's when people pay to write a story about how great their Their businesses on something like Forbes or TechCrunch. I think those also native ads kind of are disingenuous and and Degrade trust because they're presenting something like a media entity or like a journalistic entity when in actuality It's an ad or it's something that's been paid for I mean, I would count that in saying that some people I agree that sometimes people get confused and there are there are Definitely examples where you look at it. It's like I can't tell the difference between editorial and not but I Think it's really interesting sometimes when you do involve brands and allow them to tell an interesting story That is not obviously advertising themselves. There are ones that are just you know, obviously my company is great I'm showing off. Yeah, but when you allow brands to be part of that Conversation around a broader topic. Do you think that that's a that's a comfortable thing? I think it's an uncomfortable thing. I think in these times you really need to Encourage voices that are trying to find the truth in some way shape or form are Using evidence to back up their claims and in general have a longer timeline from thought to publication But how do we shift that framework then because we've we we now exist in this world where you know Everyone here is going to be looking on Twitter wanting their news in real time How can we move to a place which is more considered more frankly old-fashioned? Yeah, it's so cats out of the bag It's it's like we've opened Pandora's box and out of the box came trolls and Nazis and Incells and weird reddit threads and porn and you open the box and all these bad internet things came come out We can't put it back in the box. We can't get everybody off of Twitter Guys get off of Twitter We can't get people like me who don't have a publication now stop. You know, I want to write. I'm gonna write on medium I'm not a journalist. I'm a VC writer and I have my own incentives to promote my portfolio companies You're not gonna get me to stop writing online just because the online information environment is toxic What you can do and What the parable of Pandora's box teaches us is There's hope and I think that hope lies in innovators like you guys in rethinking the ads based model people like Jeff Bezos and Benioff and especially lowering pal pal jobs investing in Institutions like the Washington Post investing in new forms of journalism. So Lorien Pell jobs invested in a VR experience called Karne and arena and In this experience you go and you put on the VR mask And you're basically an immigrant trying to cross the border into from Mexico into California And once you've done that you're once you've gone through that experience. You're running. There's your family's behind you your view of immigration is completely Changed because you've lived through the experience of crossing a border That's a form of journalism. That's entirely new and I think increasingly will be Relevant and a solution to the fact that all website writing looks the same, okay? Yeah, I want to talk about the other B word not Brexit blockchain So in the space of media a lot of people talking about it my own employer Forbes with dipping our towing with civil at the moment as well Do you think it's part of the solution? I don't not not currently. No, I think I I think the token based network like the company I have invested in is but I don't see why blockchain would work where a Simple database wouldn't right these ideas of using blockchain for distributed verification for following the Where the sources have come from to have like almost a distributed newsroom of editors Is that something that excites you and as an investor and not currently maybe Maybe in the future, but right now I think it's very early days Where do you see the from your investor perspective? Where do you see the the the best? Possible short-term solution for improving the state of information the moment What's really got you excited? Subscriptions, so I've seen companies that try to use the blockchain to bundle subscriptions I'm excited about what Tony Hale is doing with scroll. There's a company called called a broadsheet that's trying to Get big publications to come together in a bundle where you'd pay something like Five dollars a month to be able to read the economist and the information and strotechery. I think that's very promising I've seen companies that are trying to Outsource local news to local residents and I think that's actually a big part of the solution because a lot of the reasons People think the media is biased is because they don't see their point of view and a lot of the times That's because their point of view is a local point of view. Yeah Do you think there's a bit of a conflict with local residents getting involved as well? Can they? Everyone's got their own agenda. I mean we have them where I live in London We use some next door which I know is big in the the US the kind of local Facebook and I can tell you There's a lot of conflict on there Yeah, yes I'm gonna check in attend some questions We've had some amazing questions from the audience already as you've heard you can send your questions in using Slido I've got a question here from Stella Saying regarding the business model What is your real view our consumers ready to pay for quality content? Do you really think they're ready to get their wallets out? Yeah, I do I think so the history of newspapers in the US There was partisan press so it was it was pressed for for different political parties and then it turned into Yellow journalism at the beginning of the 19th century and everything was scandalous and salacious and very much like the situation we're in now and Then at the turn of the century in the 20th century a guy named Arthur ox bought the New York Times and he was like enough or Took over as publisher. He said enough is enough. We're gonna start Really printing all the news that's fit to print. We're gonna charge up subscription We're gonna make sure people know that this paper has Standards of truth and honesty and adheres to reality I think people are gonna start paying for news because I think we're we're we're in an Epistemology problem where no one knows What's real anymore because People like Trump and and other media manipulators it Benefits them to confuse people to the point where they don't understand what's true So I think people I think people will pay for news because we're in such a bad state that people are desperate for information That's actually accurate and following on nicely from that. We've had an anonymous question Older people are more likely than young to believe fake news as they're more trusting Isn't that a problem that will sell will solve itself event As the older consumers leave the environment. I really appreciate that levity Well, you know Before it solves itself it has the potential to cause a lot of damage as Brexit is showing I hope you know you can't in a society just say okay We're gonna let the older people fall off the cliff. We're not we're not you can't that's not how society functions You can't just let a whole generation Go If I were ruler of the universe or Jeff Bezos or Lorraine Powell jobs what I would do in America specifically because I think Europe Has is a more critical thinking in America I would I would provide a theory of knowledge class I would I would make it a part of public education from the earliest stages. So how we know what we know What's real how to how to provide evidence for your assertions? What sense data? I would sit there and go from first principles philosophy How do you know if a story is true? And then I would offer that for for the boomer generation as well, and I would incentivize them I don't know how you incentivize that generation. I I Would ask people who are smarter than I how to do it, but I would make people take a class Okay, I would make people take a media literacy class theory of knowledge class Okay, is mainstream media to one-sided and thus giving way to fake news You know what studies show that it is one-sided I think one big reason people point to As to why in the US people no longer trust mainstream media is that the liberal media or the mainstream media Was so optimistic and hopeful for a liberal outcome that they really missed a lot of the signs that Trump was gonna win the 2016 election. Yeah, and this is a local news problem as well And I think that's a function of people who who become writers people who become journalism people who take Risk like that are more open and by definition more liberal. Yeah. Yeah, I mean speaking from my perspective in the UK It's really interesting that often people Make the argument the BBC is extremely left-wing and support socialism The right-wing tends to use that narrative, but actually it's been proven in academic studies It's the other way around and the BBC is actually slightly right-wing and often sometimes people can create this narrative to almost De-stabilize the other side. Oh, yeah I mean, I think that's one of the reasons people don't trust the media because the right-wing has told them not to trust the media Republicans want a republic they want people they want a few people to to run stuff Democrats want everyone to run stuff So you've had a really nice question here people would like to know your own favorite media and recommendations. I Really love the New York Times even though I hated competing with them at Tech Ranch hated because One thing the blogosphere has done is small blogs will cover a story Medium blogs will cover story large blogs will cover story and then it's the New York Times and you're like wait We broke the story link to us in which they never did but as a as a reader I love them because like I know that Multiple pairs of eyes has seen whatever comes out and that they're really sticklers about accuracy I love the Economist. I think if you just read the Economist and nothing else you'd be fine. I Like books so what I've been doing In this current, you know on real environment, I've been kind of getting offline and Reading books and trying to be Informed in that sense. There's a great book called factfulness about Using data to come to conclusions versus sensationalism There's a book called trust me. I'm lying About how PR people manipulate the media I find that if you wean yourself off of the real-time newsfeed March and go back to More longer form more slow materials like books like the Economist like White papers not the crypto kind, but the research kind You end up being a more informed human Do you think it's kind of interesting that you are someone with amazing tech expertise? And I see this a lot with people in the tech world, but almost going backwards a bit, you know back to books back to that kind of traditional thing It's yeah, I think that I think that's one of the Solutions, I don't know if it's the correct solution because we're in the thick of it now, but There's a post-structuralist philosopher Baudriard who said that we're And We're a simulation which is media and it turns into some the locker room So that's when reality TV stars become presidents and the the way out of the simulacrum or reality mirroring unreality or reality mirroring Media is to get back to what's actually real and that's going to first principles That's that's going back to Plato and being like we're in a cave. Are those shadows or what are those vases? it's it's really stepping back and Asking yourself, how do we know what we know? I think that's a fantastic point and Alexis. Thank you so much for being a great guest. Thank you