 We're still on the breakfast in plus CV Africa and many thanks for staying with us this morning and also joining, we're just going to be looking at the consent of the Nigerian Labour Congress. The Nigerian Labour Congress, as the NLC, has called for the reversal of private ownership and control of electricity sector. The trade union also kicked against the privatisation of water resources as proposed in the National Water Resource Bill, currently before the National Assembly. The union stated its position during a meeting at the National Union of Electricity Employees in Yaba area of Lagos, Dowson Tuesday. The National Water Resources Bill, which was introduced in the 8th Assembly, was reintroduced in June. The bill had cost an average among many Nigerians who perceived it as power grab by the federal government. So Joe Agero, the union national deputy president, said that since the handover of assets to private owners, corruption and inefficiency, had remained in the sector. Private operators took over the Nigerian power sector from powerholding company of Nigeria in 2013. Joining us this morning to throw more lights on this is Onyeka Christopher, assistant general secretary NLC Yaba Lagos. Thank you so much Christopher for joining us. Thank you for having me and good morning to you. Let's head straight to the conversation now. Why is the NLC taking the stands that she has taken, especially when we know that the private sector, we know that government is not a manager of business and so the private sector, over time, has been responsible for economic development across economists in the world? Okay, I think it would be better if we start like this, that we clarify that the call, this particular call that was made, was not by the Niger Labor Congress, but by the National Union of Electricity Employees. But we have the Niger Labor Congress, that is where we stand from and so the issue is very clear. One is that anybody that says that the private sector is always better in managing or propelling economic development. Yes, that may be true, but that is not very true, especially in an economy like Nigeria. The truth is that if you go to places like China, it's a public sector that is trying to economic development and I'm not sure that Nigeria is as developed as China. Now, if you look at one of the best airlines in Nigeria with the president of the Congress has always used to give us example. You find out that Ethiopian Airlines is a public sector company, it's owned by the government and it's doing well. Anybody that tells you that the government doesn't have any business in government is not telling you the truth, that is the reality. And then let's go back to the privatization of the electricity sector. The fact remains that when in a country like our own they talk about privatization, the question we ask is who is going to buy this particular sector, who is going to buy the companies? Is the seller equal to the buyer? Because that is what you find out in Nigeria. The sellers are always equal to the buyers. The same people that are selling are also the same people that are buying. And so you find out that the privatization process in our nation, unfortunately, is driven or is conceived in iniquity and propelled by corruption. And when you have these two combinations operating, you find out, let's say, the Bible says if the foundation, you know, be shaken, what can the righteous do? If the foundation of the process that gave us the privatization of the electricity sector is faulty, was built on iniquity, how can its outcomes be fair? Now, let me ask you a question. Since the electricity sector was sold, before it was sold, we were generating up around four this and bigger ones. We were generating that. But immediately, immediately after selling, we have not been able to generate up to that since then. You find out that what has been privatized is darkness. So the objectives for privatizing the sector, have they been achieved? Have we now brought in better expertise from abroad? No. That is a truth. The people, have we now brought in foreign exchange from abroad? No. The truth is that the people that bought that particular sector do not have the discourse and the genco, do not have the technical capacity to manage those places. They did not bring in any expertise from abroad. We still had the same workers, our members, who were trained and all of those. They did not bring in any fresh fund from abroad. Rather, they borrowed from the banks, internally. So you find out that the energy of the sector was mired, was conceived insane. And as a result of that, a lot of liars have been told to be able to convert it. And so we ask it, that we reverse it. Because if anything is rated under lies, then it develops us as responsible citizens and responsible organization to ask for a reversal. And that is why we're calling for a reversal. So that if we have to do it, we do it correctly and in the right way so that it will benefit Nigerians and benefit Nigerian workers. That is why we're asking for that. So that corruption is the reason why you're asking for the reversal? It was conceived in the process that later that reversal was wrong. That is one. Two, that the privatization itself has not given us, has not attained any of its objectives. One of the objectives was to increase electricity generation and supply. That has not happened. That has not become worse. Instead of improving, okay, to run the sector, that has not happened. Three, to bring him funds, no funds, the sector, especially the investment. That has happened. They borrowed money from our banks. And so that is a problem that we're having. And we are saying that since those objectives have not been achieved, it is better that we reverse it and then we sit down, we negotiate the process and then start all over. Perhaps we may get the right people to buy it and then to buy the companies and then get them to run it properly and deliver the understated objectives for the sector. But for now, it has not worked and it will not work because the same people that sold the electricity sector sold it to themselves and their brothers and their cronies and their friends. Onyeka, so you're saying that... That is why we're asking. Yeah, so what your group and organization is asking is not that we shouldn't be privatized. What is that? The privatization has an error. There's a question mark to it. It's not that you're asking that the government should be in control of this, but you're saying that it should be sold to the right people. Am I correct? Two things. I'm pregnant. It is hard to say that government cannot run certain entities successfully. Government cannot run it successfully if it's so which is to do so. So what are you asking for? So what exactly are you asking for? We're asking, what we're asking for now is a reversal because what you have done is considered the same. Reverse it. When you reverse it, then we all sit down and decide on the way forward. I think what we're asking for is a fair deal for Nigeria and for Nigerians. So I'm trying to understand you clearly and I'm sure that it's very important that Nigerians understand your position as well. So are you asking for a reversal that the government be in charge of the power sector, the electricity sector entirely because you have also argued that the electricity sector has not really fair. I mean, it's not that the entire system was privatised but you have a part of it which is a distribution. So are you saying that it should be reversed back to the government being in control or you're saying that there should just be a change in the process of privatisation? Error should be corrected. So are you in support of privatisation or you're asking that it should be done correctly? What exactly is it? Privatisation is not a view when it is done correctly. But if it is not done correctly like it was done in Nigeria, then you will have what you're having, which is darkness. Nigeria aways or so does. Nigeria aways dies. The state sectors were also privatised and they are no longer running. That is what you are having in the electricity sector. So we're saying reverse what you have done that was not properly done, then all of us can see and see whether it is right to privatise or not. Because our original position is that privatisation is a product of neoliberalism. The neoliberal philosophy says, sell everything. The market forces can correct every imbalance, can help to drive the economy. But we have found out over the years that that is not the case. That is not the truth. So let us all sit down as a nation and tell ourselves the truth. Whether what we have done is okay. If what we have done is not okay, what do you do? Reverse it. When you reverse it, you do what? You take the next step and say, okay, can we run it ourselves? And we say yes, you can run it. If we decide that you can't run it, it's okay, you can sell it off. But this is how you're going to sell it. And we put a process that will now take this into private hands. Genuine private investors who can now run those particular areas. In any case, we say that even if privatisation is okay, is it compulsory that government must sell off these entities? Open up the sector and let those that think they have money invest in the sector. But you find out that that is not the case. They want to buy public sector companies on the chip. And that is why they are angling for that. Must it be through privatisation? Open up the electricity sector. Let private investors come in, invest in generation, invest in transmission, invest in distribution. And that's possible. If they know they can make money like that from it, let them go and start afresh. But they don't want to buy public properties on the chip. And that is one of the things we are responsible for. We have to give away prices to individuals who are from the government. And if they believe that we should reverse it and then look at the process again. And we don't want to repeat it. Government can run electricity sector. Government can run electricity. We know that that's for the world's first fully run electricity direction. In Nigeria, we can do that. But this is supposed to be for infrastructure. And not essentially private infrastructure. It should be a social infrastructure. And now electricity to permeate all the groups and companies. I know I make it accessible to the state. But do you think we can try to implement that efforts? Well, just before we go now, Onyeka, I'd like to ask you if the reason for asking that there be a reversal also a kick against the privatisation of the water resource bill that's been proposed in the national water bill currently before the national assembly. What's the reason for the kick against that as well? What's the reason for privatisation of it? If you look at what we say in the chain of movement if you don't understand it, we're talking about the review of neoliberalism instead. This is not working sticky. That is not working. Sell it. Or Sabotadi can say sell it. How do you want to sell water? So what is the reason? Why are you asking that? Why are you kicking against the privatisation of it? You cannot privatise water in Nigeria. Water is a natural resource that belongs to the people. You don't want to set up at the gates of everybody's house. That is all. If you sell roads, you sell water, you sell electricity. One day you will say air. So we are saying that that water bill should be thrown away and we know what the water bill contains. If you look at the content of the water bill, you will cry. And so we don't want the water bill in whatever guys we don't want that water bill to see the light of the day. So we reject it with all these potens and in this entirety. We don't want it. If the water bill is heavy, and it must go. So what in the water bill? What in the water bill is your group against? What in the water bill is your organisation? For instance, you need to be explicit. I need you to be very explicit. State example, what exactly in the water bill is getting your association or group agitated and asking that it be kicked out? Why do you want people to pay for water they provide for themselves? Why do you want me, for example, to pay for the water that I provide for myself? Why do you want me to pay for that, for example? Why do you want Nigerian workers who provide water? Who are not even supposed to provide electricity? Who are not even supposed to have to pay for providing such utilities for themselves? That is wicked, that is evil. That is one example I've given you. Why should we pay? I'm in my house and I dig boho and you want me to pay for digging boho and giving myself water? When you have felt in your responsibility as a government to provide water? That is one example. It is evil and we don't want the water bill. In all these scenarios, we don't want water bill. Let the water, let us continue to, unless federal government or the public sector or probably state government and local government that are supposed to be in charge of all this provides water. If you provide water for the people and the people fetch the water, we can pay water rates. But if I have to dig boho because you have felt in your responsibility to be there, to be there. All right, Onyeka Christopher, we have to go now. That's because we haven't been able to have a smooth conversation with you. It's been not perfect, but unfortunately that's on the network. Thank you so much for making our time to be with us this morning. Thank you so much. Onyeka Christopher, Assistant General Secretary of the NLC Yaba in Lagos Ride here. And so there's some consensus been raised that the government should be reversal of the electricity sector back, reverse it back. The private sector should have no business in it. But growing up and ensuring elementary government has been argued that the private sector is the best for anything. And if you look at developed climes, you ask yourself, some of the sectors that have tried have been driven by the private sector. The business of government is that they provide enabling environment for policies so that the private sector can actually thrive and move the economy forward. But they seem to have a different argument and opinion. That's what we've talked about, but we have to go at this point in time. When we return, we'd also look at another issue, the spin race, the fact that the spin and argument that Nigeria should be part of the G20. Please stay with us.