 Okay, we're back, we're here on the main stage in Clouds Today, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, normally we're over there on theCUBE set, but here we got a special presentation. Talk about Tatoge, and the new CEO of Tatoge, Daniel Royston, who's also the CEO of Telco DR. Digital Revolution, great to see you. And of course, Robin Langley, we interviewed you on theCUBE, CTO of Tatoge. This is a main stage conversation because this is the big news. You guys launched there with the $100 million investment. We covered that news a couple of weeks ago and you was the CEO. What's the story? Tell us what is happening with Tatoge? Why such a big focus? What's the big push? Yeah, I'm really excited about Tatoge because I really think this team is working to build public cloud tools for Telco the right way. It's everything I've been talking about. I talked about it yesterday in my keynote, and this is really the execution of that vision. So super excited about that. Couple days ago, Robin and I were talking about the charging system, but there's another product that's Tatoge introduced to the world and that's the WebScale BSS system. So I think we're going to talk about that today. That's been great. Let's get into actually the charging system which was a great conversation here. What is this focus? What is BSS about with cloud? How does the public cloud innovation change the game with this? Well, a little bit like charging. I mean, there are maybe 100 plus BSS systems out there. Why does the world need yet another BSS? And I think one thing is we're coupling up with public cloud, which gives it that WebScale element. We can have a platform, never do another upgrade again, which I think is really exciting. But I think the really key thing that we're working on is we're building on top of an open API standard. And a lot of vendors talk about their APIs. Why is this different? These are standards developed by TM Forum. It's an independent body in our industry. They've been working on these open APIs. And all the different vendors sign a manifesto to say, I pledge to support the open APIs. But you look at the leaderboard, and everyone is sub 10, sub 5. And so it's like going through the actions and not saying it, but not following it up. And we're doing it. Well, so Robin, you guys just popped up on the leaderboard. You went from a standing start to, I think, more than 10. I don't think that's ever been done before, has it? No, so we're out there, we published 12 APIs. And we got a quote from TM Forum saying, essentially, they've never seen anyone move so fast and to publish. And it's our intent to publish 50-plus, all their APIs by the end of the year. So how were you able to do that? I mean, it was just like you're holding them back. Just kind of dumping them on one day, which is this is the nature of the new business, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And if you think about BSS, it's just been known for years to be a spaghetti of applications, disparate data, data being duplicated, systems not talking to each other, lots of different interface types. And it was crying out to be just solved properly in the cloud. And the public cloud is perfect for this. We can build a model and start, rather than looking at the applications first, let's look at the model, the unified model, and build on those open APIs, and then start to allow people to come in and create an ecosystem of applications all using that same model. If you don't mind me asking you, if you can explain, because we've talked before, we weren't on camera, but we talked about the cloud and you were explaining to me how this is perfect for the challenges that you guys are trying to solve. What about the public cloud dynamic or innovation component that you guys are leveraging? Take us through a little bit on that because I think that's a big story here that's under the covers, is what you're capable of doing here. Can you mind explaining? Yeah, no, absolutely. And so the cloud gives us this true scalability across everything. We can create, we can scale to billions of records. So we can hook in, to suck in data from our on-premise systems where we have a product called DevFlows that we used to do that. And it can really allow us to bring that data in, scale out, use standard cloud innovations like Lambda functions in AWS, DynamoDB and present that through that open API. So we use, we can use GraphQL, present that with REST on top. And so you can then build on top of that. You can take any low-code, no-code application building tool you like, put that on top and then start building your own ecosystem. You can build inventory systems, CRM, anything you like. How do you- Well, one thing that's really interesting about these projects is they usually take months, years to deploy, right? And what we're doing is we're providing almost BSS as a service, right? It's an API layer that anyone can code to. Maybe you need to use it for five minutes, five months, five years, right? With the open standard and your other, your own developers can learn how to use this tech staff and code to it doesn't require us. And so we're really trying to get away from being an SI, you know, systems integrator or heavy services revenue and instead build the product that enables the telcos to use their own people to build the applications that they know what they want. And so here you go. It's a platform. Yeah. It's a platform. So how do you connect to systems on the ground? Like what's the approach, the modern approach to doing that? Yeah. Yeah, so telcos have, you know, huge amount of data on-premise. They have difficulties in getting to it. So as I mentioned before, we have this DevFlo's product and it has connectors. We have like 30 plus connectors to all the standards, sort of billing systems, CRM systems, you know, we can hook into things like Salesforce and we can create either, you know, kind of a real-time interface in there or we can start to suck data out into the cloud and then make it available. So if they want to start with a nice, easy step and just build slowly, we can just hook in and pull that information out. If there may be a, you know, an attribute that you want to, you know, to use in some of the application, you can easily get to it. And then, you know, over time, you start to build your data into the cloud and then you've got the scale, you know, the, and all the innovations that that brings with it. So is DevFlo an on-ramp, if you will, for the public cloud? Is that what, the way you're thinking about it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I call it the slurper, right? And so, I mean, these telcos have like Robin was saying, spaghetti systems that have been, you know, customized and connected and integrated. I mean, it is a jungle out there of data. They're not going to be able to move this in one step. It's just too many. Let me just think of like a pile of spaghetti, like the whole, Overcooked spaghetti. Right, overcooked, right? The whole bowl comes out and it's really hard to just pull out one noodle and the rest is there and what are you going to do? And so the slurper, right? DevFlo allows you to select which data you want to pull out. It could be one time, you could have it sink. You don't have to do the whole thing and it doesn't disrupt the production environment that's on-premise. But now you're starting to move your data into the public cloud. And then like Robin was saying, you can throw it up against Quick Sites. You can throw it up against different Amazon services. You can create new applications. And so it's not this like, you know, big bang kind of approach. You can start to do it in pieces. And I think that's what the industry needs. We talked about this the other day where we talk about charging. What a lot of vendors will do is they'll put a wrapper around it, containerize it and then shove it into the public cloud and say, okay. And that, yeah, checkbox and it affects how they price is they price the same way. We talked a lot about pricing the other day, really pricing like cloud consumption pricing. How are you pricing in this case? Same with the charging system. The BSS system is pay by the use, pay by the API call. So really excited to introduce yet again a free tier. We think we're doing 500 million API calls per month for free. We think this is great for a smaller telco or like you're experimenting and just getting to know the system and before you like go all in and buy. And I think that API pricing is gonna go right at the heart as some of these vendors that love to charge by the subscriber or perpetual license agreement, right? They're not quite moving into as a service. And so, yeah. Are you saying they're gonna be disruptive in the pricing in terms of lower cost or more consumable? It's both lower cost and I think it's also an easier on ramp, right? It's easier to start paying by the use and experimenting. It's really easy, just like I was talking about with charging where you're gonna get the same great product that you would sell to a tier one at a price that you can afford. And now those smaller tier three guys aren't having to make a trade off between great technology, but I'm paying for the nose or sacrifice on the tech, but I can afford it. And so I think you're gonna see this ecosystem of people starting to learn how to code and think in this way. Telcos have already decided that they want to adopt the TM form of the APIs. They're on all the RFPs. Do you support it? Everyone says they support it, but we don't see anyone really doing it. They're not on the leaderboard. And there's transparency because you're pricing by API call, right? Versus the spaghetti, you guys call it, the hairball of, well, what am I paying for that's actually inside of this? It's by the subscriber. It's millions and millions of dollars. Oh, and you're gonna need to buy a bunch of consulting revenue to make it all work and talk to each other. Pay up, right? And that's what we're living in today. And I'm taking us to the public cloud future by the API. I mean, this is the big cloud revolution. It's unbundling has been a really big part of the consumption of technology, paid by the usage, get in, get some value, get some data, understand what it is, double down on it, iterate. Put it up with different services that are available that we don't have, but Amazon uses, right? They have call centers up there. They have ML that you may want to use, like start using it, start coding, start learning about the AWS tech stack. So is it available now? Yeah, absolutely. No, it's available now. We've already published the Swagger for the BSS APIs. So, you know, they can come on board, they can get access to all the APIs straight away and start using it. They can load up their favorite REST clients and then start developing. So you've got a dozen APIs today. Where are we headed? What can we expect? All by the end of the year. There's over 50 APIs. You know, the number one guy on the board is at like 22, 21, 22 APIs covered. We'll be 50 plus by the end of the year and we're just going to blow doors. The API economy has come to Telco. Yeah, I mean, it's really BSS's Lego pieces, right? Assembling these different components and really opening it up. And I think there's been a lot of power by the vendors to keep it locked down, keep it closed. Yes, we have an API, but you've got to use our people to do it. Here's the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars that you're going to pay us and keep us in business and fat and happy. And I'm coming right in on the low end, right? Dropping that price, opening it up. I think Telcos are going to love it. Well, like you said too, you'll allow the smaller Telcos to have the same actually better capabilities than the larger Telcos, right? Maybe the stack's not as mature or whatever, but they'll get there and they'll get there with a simpler, easier to understand pricing model and way, way faster, right? And that's where the disruption comes, yeah. And I think this is where AWS has really done well as a hyperscaler against their competition, is that they've really gotten to market very quickly with their services. Maybe they're not perfect, but they ship them and they get them out there and they get people using them. They use them internally and they get them out. And I think this is where maybe some of the other hyperscalers, they hold them back and they wait until they're a little bit more mature. And AWS has won because they've been fast and I want to sort of copy that lead. I think your idea of subscriber love in your keynote and I think applies here because Amazon web services has done such a great job of working backwards from the customer, so they chip it fast on use cases that they know have been proven through customer interactions. They don't just make up new features, and then they iterate, they go, okay. Sort simple, grow on that, learn from the market. What are people using? What are they not using? Iterate, iterate, iterate. Okay, so with that in mind, working backwards from your customer, how do you see the feature set evolving for this functionality? How do you see it involving as a product? Yeah, I mean, I think all of the BSS systems today have been designed with manual people on the other side of the screen, right? And we've seen chat bots take off. We've seen, you know, using chat as support. I think we need to start getting into more automation, which is really going to change up Telco, right? They have thousands of customer support agents, and you're like, dude, I just want to sim. That's all I need. Just like where do I push a button and send a new bird to my house and drop it off? Or eSIM, and so the speeding up business, empowering the subscriber, we know how to interact. We just went through COVID where we learned about different apps that overnight, you could order all of your groceries and order all of your food, and there it is, and it was contactless. It's funny, you said future of work, which we love that term work. Workloads, workforce. You have all these kind of new dynamics going on in with cloud enablement and the changes is radical. I mean, and the values there, there's value opportunities. I mean, like, you know, where are the AR VR applications? Right, where your agent pops, I saw the demo as there's a stripe in Austin and they're going to kill me because I can't remember their name, but they had a little on your mobile phone, a little holographic customer support, like how can I help you, right? And I'm like, where's that? Like, imagine you're like 18-T you're not like on the phone for like an hour and a half trying to like figure out what's wrong. And it's like, you know, it knows what's wrong. It understands my needs. And so no one's working on that. We're still working on keyboards. And that, right. That and chat bot's a great example because it's all AI. And where's the best AI? It's in the cloud because that's where the data is. That's where the best modeling has been. I think your point, not only it's the scale of data. Absolutely. Machine learning and AI needs a lot of data points to get really good. And so, I mean, I'm old. I'm 50. I graduated in 1993. I took an AI class from Niels Nielsen, like the godfather of AI, right? Okay. Like that AI, even 10 years ago at AI, it's just moving so quickly and it's now super affordable. So it's all awesome. Well, I really want to thank you guys for coming up and sharing that knowledge and insight. Congratulations on the product and open APIs. Love open APIs, open source. This is the new revolution. And yeah, Robin, thank you so much. Thanks so much. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you everyone for coming. Okay, back to you in the studio. Cloud City.