 Welcome to the MarketWatch podcast by Amplify Live, where you can access the latest market insights with me, Anthony Chung, the head of market analysis, and joined by our head of trading, Piers Curring, getting you up to speed on what mattered in markets this week. Okay. Hello, and welcome to the latest MarketWatch podcast for Amplify Live. It's Friday, 23rd of April, and there's only one topic to talk about today. And that, of course, is the one that's really dominated mainstream media, and it's the European Super League. Now, to front-run this, I've got the head of trading, Piers is ever with me, and who is a bona fide genuine football fan. But I guess I come at it as I definitely follow football, wouldn't classify myself as a fan, a more of a sports fan, and my interest fan-wise like elsewhere. So I think it could be an interesting discussion. It feels like, Piers, when I mentioned mid-week that we were going to have this conversation, it felt like a little bit of the build-up between like an Arsenal-Toppen game coming up at the weekend or something. And you were giving me a bit of back chat, and I was sending you over a few nuggets of information just to sort of wet the appetite and you were biting. I've been warming up all week. I've been doing my strat. Going for a run this morning, just pumped. I'm angry about this, I have to say. And I'm looking for, this is the, this is the, maybe the podcast I've been looking forward to the most in terms of topics being discussed. So, we want to see Dr. Ron, let's go. Were you one of these people I saw out there, out in the streets in London and really getting involved? Well, I like to do it from the comfort of my own home. So, you support Arsenal, then? What? OK, I've cut the largest. I thought that was the typical Arsenal fan. Well, those are our most loyal listeners to the podcast. Well, of course, know who I support, because I revealed it in podcast number one. And that was when we heard about your man crush as well. As a teenager coming up, who was, of course. So, if you want to know who my man crush is, guys, you've got to go back and listen to episode one. OK, on that cliffhanger. All right, well, let's kick it off. So, I mean, I think the news came out. I even tweeted it because it was breaking at the weekend. And obviously, then it really kicked off. And by midweek, almost the whole deal was off. And it's a completely fallen flat. And so the breakaway European Super League founder and Juventus chairman said that the league on Wednesday can no longer go ahead. So there's six English clubs withdrew. And without the English clubs, there's no league, sure. But I guess context a little bit. And again, you know, I'm sure there's football pundits that will give us more granular level detail. But over top level, there's been a pandemic, right? So a lot of these clubs, you know, match day ticket kind of recedes is what fuels a lot of their revenue and obviously no games, no season, so on. European clubs, my understanding is financially felt the pain that's able severely than than Premier League firms or football clubs. And so therefore, what's been interesting here is that for one, there's a US investment bank involved. JP Morgan is kind of underwriting this and has been involved in the architecture of the deal from a financial point of view. And one of the things that was originally that came out was that founding members were going to get a welcome. So this isn't even talking the numbers that would follow. This is the welcome bonus, which is two hundred to three hundred million euros. But my understanding is what Champions League you're talking about 70 million or so. So these are these are quite large numbers, right? Yeah. So this isn't you said before, though, this isn't a new thing. This is kind of been around for a while, this idea around European football and so on. So what's what's your initial take when the news broke and where we are now at this point? But it's pretty annoyed would be a probably an understatement the way I see this as a football fan and a fan of one of these top six as well, by the way. And you could say, well, you know, if you're in the top six for happy days, you find then shouldn't all the fans be loving it? If you're in the top six and you're going to be in this league? Well, actually, no, quite the opposite. And in fact, in fact, the status seventy nine percent of English fans have opposed this and actually, interestingly, the proportion of fans from the big six clubs it's a higher percentage that actually don't like this. And but look, it's all motivated by money. And so fine. And we're going to talk about the business aspect of a football club. You know, these big boys, these are publicly listed companies. These days, right? So we'll talk about that. But, you know, this is all about money. Do fans care about money? No. What do fans care about? They want that they want to see their team win. They want to see their team win silverware, right? And OK, you could say, well, to do that, you're going to need to sign the Rinaldo's of this world. And to be able to do that, you're going to need to pay a load of money. Therefore, the club needs to generate huge revenues to be able to afford these players. And then you're going to be able to win. And all right, I see that argument. But look, in the end, this is foreign owners mostly. So certainly in the English clubs, right, at the top six, you know, most of them are they're all foreign in fact, all of them. Four of them are owned by Americans and perhaps will touch on the American way of doing sports leagues in a minute. But there are foreign owners here who never come to the games. They're not really fans. They in the truest sense like us, you know, they're not from these communities and they've come and they've bought and they say, right, we've lost a load of money here because of this pandemic. We're going to need to make some of this back. Let's just rip up the way that this sport has been run for 150 years. And then let's just try and make some cash. I mean, you said rip up the sport. But I assume you are old enough to remember the founding of the Premier League in 1992, right? And that was a breakaway at the time for the Football League, founded in 1888. Yes. So that's that's big change. And then the rationale there, taking advantage of lucrative television rights deals. So money's on the table at that point. So how did you feel back in 92 when that was happening? Was there excitement or was there was it like a reaction like this? And people were like, you're damaging the game, you're going off the money. On the one hand, it was annoying because it was moving on to a pay-per-view platform. And that was like, well, that's annoying. You know, I used to be watching this on BBC, right? So that was annoying. But then on the flip side, all right, it was really actually that from that point onwards, that's what's made the Premier League what it is today, which is comfortably the biggest football league on the planet. From a commercial aspect, you know, it was it was a beautiful strategy. Now, but the really, really important key difference here is that the European Super League, the proposals definitely not the same as what happened with the Premier League back in 92. Now, ultimately, it gets down for me. The most annoying thing about this league is that for the for the top whatever, 12 clubs, they can't get relegated. Right. So that actually, for me, that's the critical thing here. If you can't get relegated and. And actually, so all that can happen is you can either win and get the trophy, great, or nothing else. So look, if you're if you start in this league, and let's say you lose. So I'm a Tottenham fan, right? So and look, there's been plenty of memes going around about, you know, Tottenham, why the hell are Tottenham in this alongside Real Madrid, Barcelona and Man United? Yeah, I think one of the best moves I saw it was like Tottenham being invited to the ESL was like banana man called up to the Avengers. So look, so from my point of view, this is what this is what would have happened, right? Tottenham would have been in this league. You'd have lost the first couple of games, let's say, of the league. You bottom of the league from the start. Basically, it's over before it begins. You cannot win now. And what's the point? You know, the Premier League, right? Just as one example, right now, there are six teams fighting tooth and nail every week, desperately to finish third or fourth. Why? Because top four get into the Champions League, right? There are teams fighting this. These are teams going down to that eighth position. We're coming towards the end of the league. And it is its life and death, these games for fans and for players. There's something to fight for. And like down the bottom of the end of the league, if you can't get relegated, well, I just think it destroys the competitive edge that makes football and sport what it is. So I completely agree with that. But from a financial forecasting point of view, if I was running a business, if then the uncertainty of an outcome of a match, because we know this happened, happens. This is what we love about football with like the FA Cup or whatever it might be. You get a minnow, knockout and a major team, which is amazing from a spectator's point of view. You can I'm not under the FA Cup, the FA Cup is something separate. But let's just say, what does next year look like? And how do I build this business going forward? When someone like Tottenham, let's say, which no offense fluctuate over time? And so tell me that. So is that not isn't that then a compelling? You said that these these guys now that own these clubs, you know, they're all they're all businessmen. And so when they see this emotive reaction like of this week, I mean, these are hard-nosed businessmen who are used to this type of confrontation and these types of things. I mean, do they even care like that? And how important is having that more stability about the forward-looking financial outlook for these these clubs, which are publicly listed as well? Some of them. Well, I get that from a business point of view to look at Man United's share price. Juventus is like Man United's share price spiked 10 percent off the news that they were joining the ESL. Juventus share price was up 19 percent. Now, a lot of that is exactly for this reason, right? Whereby you can't get relegated. So the stability and the forecastability of future revenues becomes much more stable. And so therefore, if future revenues are more stable, there's less volatility in those future revenues, then that actually makes your business more valuable. And so the share price spikes and fine. And I get that. But, you know, these these football clubs, why do they need to be run as just businesses with the sole aim of generating profit? That's that's not what they were ever for. You know, these football clubs are born and birthed out of communities, right? This is a this is a community social network. You know, you've got like families with four generations of people in the family that support this team. And they all go, you know, the grandson and the granddad go down to the games and, you know, you basically be destroying this. Some of the crazy ideas was, well, yeah, like these owners can pick up this club like Arsenal, just pluck it out of London and let's go and take it and drop it into China. And we'll have the club in China because the commercial potential in China is way bigger than it is in the UK. So let's just, you know, they can't just use these clubs like pawns on a chess board and move them around. There's communities that are that built around these things. Isn't that the point? Can you not just pick up Arsenal and drop it in Beijing? Because ultimately the locality of a fan and look, I'm not belittling. I think there's a deep rooted rich history in English culture that we identify ourselves, particularly those working class routes in areas like Liverpool, Manchester, I get it. Definitely get it. But if you're talking about a locality fan base of million and let's say Manchester United's on global reach is one billion of which the by far biggest percentage growing market is going through a phase of, let's say, accelerated growth long term through China, through infrastructure, better individual wealth, new emerging middle class, people with ability to spend on things like streaming services and purchasing merchandise. I mean, are we not? You know, I saw this, the guys who were protesting football is for the fans and I thoroughly agree. Football is for the fans. You're just focusing on the wrong fans. Remove yourself out of the emotional tie to exactly what you described, which cuts deep that it's kind of like a Brexit issue. What are we? We're English, we're British. How, you know, this is that defines a lot of your decision making process from an emotive point of view. But if you look at it on the numbers, I don't think that this I'm not saying the Super League is without its faults. I think you're right, the area that's caused the most friction, I think, is its mitigation aspect. So I don't think it could go through in its current form. It needs some sort of amendment. But I do think that in actuality, it's I think you're a bit naive if you think that these these these corporations are going to give weightedness to the emotional tie that these clubs have from their history because we're moving into a new paradigm now of a different way that these companies will operate. Well, look, don't forget about the government's sort of position in all of this, by the way, because if the government says, yeah, yeah, go on. Arsenal, you American owner of Arsenal, yeah, go on. Take it to Shanghai, we don't care. Then that's a vote loser big time, right? So for government, what my point is, governments will not allow, will never allow that kind of, you know, quite extreme scenario of moving the club to a different country, right? That's that's definitely off the tail. I don't care what your business argument, your commercial argument is as an American owner, it's not happening. OK, that's definitely for number one. You saw the kind of Boris Johnson was on this bandwagon, I mean, back loving this, right? Yeah, of course. And, you know, you had Tory MPs kind of threatening windfall taxes on the breakaway clubs, or they're going to be allowed fewer work permits or unleashing competition, legal action and withdrawing police support from match days. These are all the threats that were coming out of the government, right? But look, let's focus on the commercials. And that's because for me, I think they're going about this in exactly the wrong way. I totally understand there's financial crisis in football. And as there are across all sectors, by the way, we're not quite all, but most sectors because of the pandemic, right? But there's there's a much better way to make these clubs more economically viable and in time make them profitable and fine. And then the owners get what they want from a kind of investment exercise. And there's a way to do it where the fans continue to get what they want as well. I think the money, the profit should really be coming from capping and sorting out the wage bills of the players. And actually in American sport, where they have made a success of some of these systems where you have leagues where you can't get relegated. Well, in these leagues, there's wage caps as well. But you need a wage cap in this system. Let me give you let me give you a couple of stats. Not on the wages. Yeah, I'm going to leave that for a second, but actually from a club's point of view, actually, to give you an idea of that revenue breakdown. So looking over the last sort of five years on average, roughly speaking, a club generates 44 percent of its annual revenue from broadcasting rights. OK, and we'll come on and talk about Netflix in a minute, actually talking about broadcasting. 40 percent is on commercial revenue. So merchandise and all the rest of it, right? And then only 16 percent of revenue these days is actually from match day ticket sales. So the pandemic has hurt the match day sales, right? But that's only 16 percent of their revenue these days. So actually the financial impact on clubs. Yes, it's large, but it's only impacted in theory, 16 percent of their revenue. Secondly, these 12 clubs, it is, and this is a stat that made me quite angry. So in the year prior to the pandemic, the 12 clubs, the founding clubs that kind of signed these contracts and let's get this European League up and running, the 12 clubs generated in total between themselves, 6.5 billion euros worth of revenue. OK, those 12 clubs, the next 700 clubs in Europe generated a total of 15 billion. So actually the 12 clubs, they've already got 30 percent market share in terms of all revenues generated by all football clubs. They've already got the lion's share. Now, here's the point. The other thing about the impact this would have on like lower levels of football, because this revenue, right? It comes in and then it filters down the pyramid. And this is how you get children playing football on a Saturday. These clubs cost money, right? For getting kids out there. And but if the European Super League happened and by the way, what would happen is this to replace the Champions League, right? So the Champions League, they earned 2.4 million from billions from the Champions League. And here they'd go to earning 4 billion. So they're talking about an extra 1.6 billion. OK, but this would mean those clubs at the top with their percentage of the revenue share would go up, go from 30 percent. It's already massive, might go up to 40 percent. And actually, that just means less money would filter down to the bottom. So that's just on a top level. Can I just so just just jumping in on on that point, because there's a crossover here to a basketball analogy I can give you. So I think it was 80. It was 85 when Scotty Pippin, the Chicago Bulls came into the league as a year after Jordan, I believe. Yeah. And he was he was an OK player coming out of college. He wasn't like a top, top prospect. Like Jordan was at the time, the year or two before. And Pippin was a guy like a lot of basketball players. He came from a very deprived background and they offered him a contract at X Figure. But to sign up for, I think it was seven years, which was a bit unprecedented at the time. But this is a young guy coming out of college, never played a pro game in his life, has potential, unfulfilled. So you're getting good value. Lock him in, if you're the Bulls general manager, cheap price. Pippin then flourishes, becomes one of the great players in the history of the game. Now, his actual wage salary was something like in basketball world terms, like insanely cheap. So he's now one of the top players in the world and he was getting paid. He was something like the bottom quarter, the worst players in the league, because he chose to take the lump sum up front. Yeah. Now, these football clubs, isn't there an argument? I get it. You're going to kill the competitive element and the distribution of wealth, if you like, from the league, which is going to be unhealthy because then it almost creates its own super league in itself, organically, in a way. But what I'm saying is if I'm Liverpool or I'm Manchester United and I'm generating all of this wealth for UEFA because or for whomever league, I want to aim my rights to turn around and say, OK, I earn a lot. But if it wasn't for me and these six, these five other guys, teams, well, then there is no league. So I'm going to collude with the other five and the six of us. You either pay us or we leave. I mean, is this not a negotiating? Well, yeah, it is a negotiation. Yeah, for sure. It's a negotiating strategy to try and leverage more money. I mean, they've already got the top 12 and 30 percent of the revenue, the next 700 and the other 70 percent. I mean, they're already all dominant, right? But on the one that Pippin example, then what happens here in English football is fine, you sign a youngster. They're on a low wage. They start doing well, but they might be on a five year contract. But then they're getting kind of courted by Real Madrid, right? And so even though they're on a five year contract, they could leave after two years because they can say, look, I want to leave. I'm not playing anymore. And so you're right, they get sold. But on these player wage bills, can I just say to kind of maybe just kind of bring this argument to a close? This is this is where the problem lies in my view. They're earning too much. And all right, there's arguments around, well, hang on, these individuals are generating huge revenues for these clubs. They should be earning money. So you've got the Ronaldo's of this world, right? The giants. And OK, fine, he he generates a huge amount of revenue for your ventures, but he's earning 900,000 euros a week. Well, that's 47 million euros a year. Pay him one million less. Well, if you want to run a profitable business, pay him less money. And actually that pay that one million pounds less that could go to run like five grassroots children's clubs supporting two thousand kids playing football for a whole year. There's other but that that's Ronaldo. He's kind of maybe in a different stratosphere, right? But there's others like Arsenal pay Erzil for the German footballer. They pay him three hundred and fifty thousand pounds a week. He hasn't played for 15, 18 months. Just doesn't play gets three hundred and fifty grand a week. Here's the best. Real Madrid are paying Gareth Bale three hundred and eighty thousand pounds a week to play for someone else. He plays for Tottenham. But Real Madrid are paying him three hundred and eighty grand a week to play for Tottenham. Now, if you think something's broken in football, that's it right there. They need to sort out the wage bill system. And then they can maybe get that a house in order and start generating a bit of profit. Yeah, well, I know we're we're running on with time, but I think there's some other good points I want to discuss. I think we should just roll with it because the other thing here is about there's two areas I want to talk about, which is online streaming and to lead us into that, I want to talk about demographics. Yeah, so going through behavioral patterns of different demographics. So how there's a, you know, perhaps is there a generational difference between how you and I would interact with sport or any product or service to what someone who's 17, 18 would do. And we've seen the emergence of apps that you and I do not use, like Snap or TipToc. Speak for yourself. Yes, you and Gordon Ramsay all over TikTok. But the point I'm leading to is, you know, some stats that I thought were quite interesting that I've got here. So from that point of view is the amount of young people now that own a smartphone, as you would imagine, in the last couple of years has gone from kind of 70, 75 percent to basically 100 percent. Yeah, also, as well, there's lots of different studies talking about. And I think the Real Madrid president, Florentino Perez, even said this, that basically 40 percent of 16 to 24 year olds just aren't interested in football. They don't have the attention span to watch a 90 minute game, particularly if it's like, I don't know, let's say, what for the playing Luton? It's like, you know, how much interest is there in a game like that? And so there's a shift there. And the kind of, I guess, digestion, smartphones, computers, social media, YouTube, short form aggregator, subscription based models is what's generally emerged here. So shifting that then to how football is consumed at the moment. So if I look at my Sky package, right, actually the business model of Sky is right. OK, let's break it all up so that actually if you want the all singing, dancing package, it becomes quite expensive because you need cinema, you need sports separate. But for a lot of people, I'm the same. I buy Sky for sport. You know, if I want to watch a movie, if I want to watch a documentary, I've got Netflix. Netflix is far better in my humble opinion, but I want the sport. So that's twenty five pound on top of your very basic Sky package, which is basically nothing. Sky Atlantic, I think, of twenty five pounds is fifty pounds. Then if you obviously what we've had this split of the battle of the kind of who runs the Premier League games, BT, sport and Sky. So OK, how much is BT sports, twenty five pounds. So now seventy five pounds. And then I start looking at someone like Netflix. And I don't know about you, but everyone's got Netflix. It seems almost that way. And like it's like, oh, have you seen that thing on Netflix? So are you watching that thing? You know, the consumption is almost like I don't need to wait till every Monday till my favorite episode comes out anymore. And it's anticipation. It's like, boom, I just blitz the whole series in one weekend, sort of mentality. So the point here is is is it a problem of accessibility for young people who are basically consuming content in a very different way and with such available free content of high quality. Paying seventy five pounds a month for these kind of archaic platforms seems just absolutely done. Then you layer in, OK, go to the pub. But then there's stats to say that young people don't really like drinking anymore in not not the way that you and I might have done many years ago. We were coming up. This actually starts to prove that this is the lowest level pretty much it's ever been. And that's part of that culture that we were very comfortable and we enjoyed that kind of match day environment. But has that gone? So I guess what I'm moving to here is Netflix. Let's talk about investment opportunities in Netflix and Amazon. With Netflix, I did some reading. I was like, why aren't they in sports anyway? Like, surely that's just a go to place for growth, particularly with a company. We've had Netflix earnings this week. Yeah. Right. Shares dropped like a stone. Yeah. I don't that doesn't scare me at all because I think that if you look at their share price, it's gone up. Phenomenal. It's had a phenomenal story through the pandemic, obviously, on the initial lockdown. So some normalising, I think, is of the order there to a certain degree. But the thing that's worrying for Netflix is growth. Everything's kind of weighted on subscriber growth. And now investors markets expect. How do you keep that that moving, moving north? And so from a Netflix point of view, from what I read, what they said was two kind of points here. One is, as we know, they spend billions of dollars on new original content. That's almost a draw for them. And that's what's really changing the landscape for all kind of production studios and everything. Yeah. So that's one thing. They commit already a roadmap of expenditure, which means it's very difficult for them to then enter change direction. And the second thing is that their head of content said, what can we offer with sport? It's it's a match, right? You can film it from a different angle, but it's the same thing, right? That you're trying to broadcast, so it's not uniquely different there. However, if they did go into that realm, let's say, because we know they like to spend money, Netflix, isn't there an opportunity there for them to tap into a market that would be global in a sense? And particularly for them, they're not the football club. They're a company looking for aggressive expansion and they want to then tap into these foreign short markets where there is a gross potential. So how do you feel about the kind of potential for a Netflix in this this type of scenario to get involved? I think it's definitely inevitable. I mean, I think that when you talk about sky and paying 50, 75 quid a month, I was talking to you earlier, it's it feels a bit like sky that to to watch sport through your sky subscription, it feels a little bit like owning a Nokia phone. You know, I think it's like, what, really? What are we still doing that? And I think Amazon Prime have really come into the picture and now you can watch some Premier League games. But I guess the problem for a football fan is they're there that the games are now divided up across a whole bunch of platforms. So you need sky or you need BT Sport or you need Amazon Prime or whatever. But when it comes to cost, I mean, 75 quid for sky per month or 799 for Netflix or 799 for Amazon, the price differential is just dramatic. And that's why sky in the end, they're kind of dying a slow death. I would suggest when it comes to sport and this Amazon coming into this this arena is just the very beginning. And I'm very sure Netflix will sort out the problem is, especially with football, there's a huge barrier to entry with regards to the cost of these television rights. And as you're saying, as a business like Netflix, you're mapping out revenue spend or spend over the next X number of years and you've got all this content you want to produce. And then if you want to slap in football, that's going to that's another huge kind of cost that at the moment, I don't think they can afford. But I think that it's in it's got to be in their long term plans. And right, then you get it into a format that is more consumable for our, you know, the new younger generations. But in terms of like some sports have we've seen it, some sports have changed up the way it's packaged and actually changed up the sport in many ways to try and generate more interest in it. So you've had things like the IPL, that's the the Indian Premier League cricket. You've had things like. Super set tennis, super set. That's what you were talking about. Super set tennis where you get all the big guns together and they play one set in one. They all play off and you get 250 grand. Was it for the winner or something? Yeah. Anyway, so look, you've had sports and you've had darts change things up. You've had snooker change things up and many others, right? But these are all sports that have been dying a bit of a death, whereby the the, you know, for crickets, a good example where young people don't want to go and sit and watch a cricket match for five days. And then it's a draw. Right, they want bang, bang, bang, bang, four hours. Winner, someone wins a trophy. There's an MVP and all this kind of stuff. Right, it needs to be jazzed up to recapture interest. Football doesn't have that problem or certainly not. I know the Real Madrid president saying that younger people are watching it less. And I get that, but it's nowhere near the same problem, the size of the problems that were near what these other let's call them smaller sports have had. But I'm not saying there's there isn't room to change things up. But I don't think I don't think you can say to football, the footballing world, right, instead of 90 minutes, let's just have it's five aside and it's 10 minutes each half. And then the winner gets 250 million, you know, look, it's 90 minutes, it's 45 minutes each way. I don't think you should change that. So I think Netflix coming in and look, I get what they're saying. How can we make this? How can we freshen it up and make it different? Sky did that in 1992, by the way. And that was from the analysis side of the game. Many different camera angles and many more ways to analyze what's happening. So I don't know whether we can go to a whole new level on that front. Sky did try 3D. They had some 3D matches. This was like three or four years ago now, and it kind of just seemed like an interesting concept. But then it kind of died away. So I don't know whether any Netflix or Amazon can come through with innovation in terms of how it's brought to the living room and how it gets analyzed. But there's got to be some room there. Yeah, the other thing, as these conversations progress, the thing about Amazon is that, you know, at the core, they're an e-commerce platform. And then if you were talking about a global game and you've got this direct, smooth ecosystem from point of match through to sponsorship, through to then the rights to then the purchasing of goods, seems like quite a tasty proposition if you could position yourself accordingly. Now we're talking, you see, that's the kind of deal Netflix should be looking for. They should be looking to partner with clubs like Man United. And it's a sponsorship partnership where not only, you know, they televising games, but then there's right there, clicking or Amazon is a better example, I guess, in terms of the e-commerce. And that right there, there's like, you know, you've got all your fans in Asia and like they're watching the match and alongside the screen is, you know, do you want to buy your Pogba shirt? Right, he scores a goal. Yeah, right. Yeah, that'll be $80. Thanks. Perfect. So I think that's that's where it should go. And I'm sure these executives at Amazon and Netflix, I'm sure this is on their radar. If it's not and they end up using our idea, we do want to cut the action. But that's probably where football is going next. Yeah, no, the final point on that is that what was interesting is when I was looking at some of the research over a typical Chinese consumer, a football fan, what was interesting is that because they do not have that, as you described, that community, cultural tie to a club, it's not uncommon. Like there's probably any non-fan, more sports fan is that, let's say, if I was to say to you, or let's take myself, what basketball shirts do I own now? Like now I'm not so in into the sport as I was when I was young. So, OK, I've got a Steph Curry, Orius shirt. I got a LeBron, Miami, Miami heat shirt. Right. And I've got a Larry Bird, Boston Celtics shirt, showing my age, showing my age a little bit. But the point being is that this is quite common in a in a globalised non-locality marketplace where people support characters, individuals, and they're willing to go cross-party like, you know, imagine if you just walked into one of the local pubs outside the Tottenham Stadium with your Arsenal shirt on. You would come out of there alive. You wouldn't even be intact, probably. So, but that doesn't matter, obviously, when you're talking about, let's say, Chinese markets. So one of the things I was quite interesting, I was looking at, it's like how many times multiple could you then start hitting new markets when we were looking at the commercial aspect? And it it was quite compelling. But do you need a European super league to achieve that? Why can't you achieve that? I guess this this speeds into then that whole do does Anthony Chung in living in Beijing, Chinese Anthony, want to watch, right, Reading versus Man United. OK, yeah. Well, if it matters and the Man United need the three points to win the title or need the three points to finish fourth and get the Champions League next season, then it doesn't matter who they're playing. But then Paris Saint-Germain have got XYZ and I want to see them because they're superstars and because I use Instagram and I really like the way he is and he hangs out and the tattoos he's got, what he wears and he hangs out with Drake. Yeah, well, talking of Drake, very quick. I mean, we're going way over time here. But look, talking about Drake, he's just invested in overtime along with Bezos and others. This is a US company that's done a deal to broadcast children's or 16 to 18 year old basketball, right? So like for Netflix, I think that's quite interesting. If I was Netflix, I'd be going to the Premier League clubs and I'd be saying, I'm going to cut you a deal. I'll televise your under 18s league. OK, I'll televise that. I'll pay you some money. Maybe you can pay those kids a bit more money as well. But that's their way in. That's their route into football. It's actually bringing a new product that currently isn't really readily available. So can I finish on the very I talked about my banana man meme. There's one other really good one because this was this was hilarious, right? This European super league, all these big guys. Yeah, we're ready. It's going to go. It's going to be amazing. And then it's like, oh, sorry, we're pulling out. And the best analogy I saw was it was like the guys organising a lads night out before they then asked permission from their wife. Yeah, and then as as inevitable always is the case, sorry, shows over. That's right. And on that note, the show is over. So yeah, a little bit longer, but obviously a really interesting and quite emotive topic. So we thought we'd thrash it out. We'll be back on point, obviously, to talk a little bit more trading market related. Obviously, there's been a Biden tax proposal that's been particularly interesting. We can really get into that next week. But thanks for listening, Piers. Good stuff. Enjoy your weekend. See you next week. All right, take care. Thanks, everyone.