 On my best angle the hour of one o'clock having arrived We will call to order this session of the Santa Cruz City Council on the clerk. We'll call the roll Thank You mayor council members Newsome present Brown here Vodkins here Brunner President Calentary Johnson as it vice mayor Golder mayor Achille here a quorum having been established We will at this point Take any public comment here in council chambers or online Relative to the items on our closed session For those of you unfamiliar with that we will be going into closed litigation session Allowed under the law and if you have on any of the three items that are on there You wish to make a comment. This would be your opportunity to do so We will then adjourn to closed session When we finish that we'll come back into open session take up the balance of our council agenda Including a report from council if necessary from our city attorney if necessary on any items we cover in closed session That are required by law to be disclosed So let me first see if there's anyone with us in chambers today who wishes to make a comment seen and hearing none We will see if there's anyone online. There is nobody no one online We're in closed session Santa Cruz City Council is back in session following our closed session This would be the opportunity we're on oral communication This would be the opportunity for anyone to address the council on a matter under our jurisdiction But not on today's agenda mayor if I could just call roll really quick. Well, I'm sorry, excuse me Thank you so much. We'll call the roll council members Newsom President Brown here What can's here in Brunner? President Calentary Johnson as it vice mayor Golder and Mary Keely here establishing a forum We'll move to oral communications If you wish to address the council on item under our jurisdiction But not on today's agenda feel free to do so if you wish to address this on something on our agenda You'll be given the opportunity to do that separately. So if there are a miss time runner. Come on up. Good. See you Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Becky Stein Brunner. I'm a resident of Aptos But I do a lot of business within the city of Santa Cruz I want to relay to you information about a group that I have been following Called catalysts for local control It is a group of city and county leaders From the whole state that are meeting with local legislators to try to address some of the problems with the sixth cycle Rina numbers The State Department of Finance did an audit of the housing and community development agency that formulated The sixth cycle Rina requirements and found that the data was not supportable that there were many Problems with the numbers the data that they used for the modeling and Actually performed an audit that came out with those findings in 2021 HCD has not Acknowledged that audit that is moving forward with as you know the very high sixth cycle Rina numbers requirement mandates unfunded mandates and The infrastructure is a problem to support those numbers. I would like to ask that you Check out catalysts for local control. They meet every Monday evening five o'clock On zoom you can go to the website and link into it next Monday. They will have a guest speaker mr. Mark reveal Who is excellent at? Researching economic and population data and he has a lot to say that we all need to hear about the sixth cycle Rina numbers that are very very questionable Do I have more time or am I up? Okay? I'm done. Thank you very much for being here Miss Bush do we have anyone online who wishes to let's what we'll do now since we have a person in Chambers and someone online will toggle back and forth. We'll now take the first person who's online. Good afternoon Hello, thank you so much. My name is Rachel Soto's and two weeks ago I stood before you and suggested that the city of Santa Cruz established something like a Truth and reconciliation Commission as they had after apartheid in South Africa, but for The public health of the era of the public health emergency of COVID This was reflected in the notes from the last meeting as a request for a COVID hysteria Commission and and I don't want to quibble too much about it although it feels a little bit uncomfortable to me uncomfortable in the in the manner in which Descent is pathologized, but but I do understand as I read as a title of an article that Supported such a suggestion, but I'd like to clarify that I'm suggesting a truth commission And truth is the operative word and the pursuit is healing and the restoration of the fabric of the community The truth is the operative word but I would say that the attitude required is skepticism and Skepticism is required of us all now as citizens and as public officials Because it's clear that the regulatory bodies such as the FDA and the CDC have been captured Perhaps, you know, it was funny last Halloween to decorate your lawn with a tombstone that said he did his own research But that time has passed. We have the revelation of the Twitter files Missouri versus biden the Pfizer documents that they wanted sealed for 75 years But have only been revealed because of FOIA requests California has rescinded the doc the law criminalizing doctor's speech But the who pandemic threatened us all Fortunately people all over the world are waking up in Canada just recently the national citizens inquiry gave their preliminary report And I think that's a good model for for all of us to look into as we pursue truth Truth skepticism for healing and restoration. Thank you Thank you very much. Good afternoon, sir Yeah, hello. Good afternoon. My name is James healing Whitman You know, I can mostly recommend this magazine the new american. It's got 13 articles on Rescuing our children pretty interesting articles so I spoke at the supervisors meeting on the 19th public comments About a issue that I've heard talked about in this room including the police audit And in that room and it has to do with a really crappy example of law of peace officers behaving as peace officers That has to do with the santa cruz police. This is an incident that happened on june 28th 2021 And I don't know what all the remedies are for that, but I mean I there's you know, there's dictionary length remedies I know that you know for myself personally I Disabate in order that cost me 30 000 dollars went to jail for doing that and I had to Do a 52 week domestic violence class that I actually could have taught So, um I'm kind of I put them on notice I'm putting all of you a notice as well because not much has happened and there's been I'll just say at favoritism and the other board not with them I'm not I can't actually pinpoint which supervisor But I didn't mean when I said favoritism because around that time two other youth were Taken away from their families and they've been been reunited So I can't say anything if you guys haven't seen that six minute and 41 second presentation that Probably the easiest way to find it is I guess youtube forensic mama But I'll send something to all of you so you can look at it because it's just interesting. It doesn't just involve this council, but supervisors and the santa cruz police and the sheriff's department in santa cruz, but uh I I'm sure that something will change soon. So thank you very much. Thank you, sir Miss bush another person online We'll take that person online. Good afternoon Yes, hello, this is garret and one more time on this bridge marker after reviewing the historical commission meeting records I listened to them on uh I was not surprised at the total lack of any specific evidence in their single minded efforts to proclaim forever The incendiary idea of a permanent marker stating as fact that the water street bridge lynching in 1877 Was a product of racial terrorism And specifically asked for the evidence supporting that conclusion the commission stated there was no evidence because there was no trial I assume of the vigilantes that is nonsense Evidence is required There sure was plenty of evidence the hung parties were hardened previously convicted criminals also guilty of this robbery murder Having been seen at the time and nearby having the stolen money and also their confessions Which provide a powerful revenge motive for vigilante violence Not racial terrorism facts admitted from the plaque I'm not saying there weren't acts of racial hate or terrorism california But those had evidence like the native peoples goal rush genocide or black lives matter antifa acts of violent anarchy Evidence of racism has to do with patterns of clearly racist words and actions But we don't even know for sure who the vigilantes were the existence of other lynchings in other places at other times Or if they were mostly Hispanic people means nothing as relevant evidence The observation that the book was written trying to prove the hypothesis That Hispanic lynchings in the west were similar to black people in the south is also not specific evidence here That people gathered to gawk at those hung and took a selfie that was copied is not evidence of racial terrorism But only of the age old common public fascination with violent spectacle Blacking specific evidence of racial terrorism I regard the plaque as a dangerously incendiary revisionist lie typical of the cultural Marxist False assertions of racial hate such as derek chavinverted george floyd as a systemically racist policeman Led to real modern-day terrorist mass ultraviolence Derek chavin was never charged with a hate crime because no racist evidence ever existed Lies generate bad consequences Thanks Thank you, sir Good afternoon, miss green side Good afternoon, mayor keely vice mayor golden and council members jillian green side I was going to send you an email but since i'm here and public speaking And this is not controversial, but it will need some follow-up It's about the ability of the public to hear what is being said on your side of the dais And this particularly applies in commission meetings because Most if not all of you know to speak into the microphone I have good hearing so i don't know what it's like for people who don't But just as one example I was at the historic preservation commission on wednesday night And uh first off couldn't hear a word and i got up and spoke to staff who went over here and fiddled with the computer And got the system working however One that wasn't the end of the problem Um throughout the meeting There were times when one couldn't hear a word or just inaudible of staff making very important points for the issue I was there at I respect the decorum of these chambers. I do not like calling out But after i'd spoken got up and said we can't hear you I had there were four other occasions when that same person Forgot to speak in the microphone and when you do that When you're that side you can't hear So something need a reminder or something needs to be sent to all staff and commissioners To remember that there's the public out here And we come to the meetings because we're really interested and want to participate And this is it's not working at the moment these microphones very different from the old ones which seem to pick up a broader You know Volume or whatever the word is window of sound these you've got to speak right into them But I don't like having to call out can't hear Four times in a public meeting when people are judging. How does she behave and you know what i'm saying? So, uh, please address this because this is a legal Matter as well your meetings are recorded for many reasons. Thank you. Thank you. Thank for bringing that to our attention We don't under all communication rules. We don't engage with you in in a conversation. We got the point Thank you though very much miss green side anyone else online Anyone else wish to address us on a matter under all communication? Seeing hearing none We'll move forward. We are on presiding officers announcements. I have none statement of disqualification This would be the opportunity for any council member who has a legal conflict to make that statement Miss brunner item number 12 As it relates to my employment. That is the downtown association Parking and business improvement area assessments for fiscal year 2024 Thank you. Miss brunner any of the council member any item very good additions or deletions the agenda miss bush There are none. Thank you Attorney report in closed session mr. Kandadi Good afternoon. Mayor keely members of the city council this afternoon the council met in closed session at 1 p.m in the courtyard conference room to Discuss the following closed session items Item one was a conference with legal counsel concerning liability claims Those are the claims of michael lewis sweat and andre deladier Almeida those are also listed this afternoon on your consent agenda as item number seven And second item was a conference with legal counsel regarding anticipated litigation specifically The council met to consider initiation of litigation involving one potential case There was no reportable action Thank you Council meeting calendar miss bush anything you want to draw our attention to on that? No change it. Thank you so much We're on consent agenda for those of you unfamiliar with it. What we're doing is taking items four through nine inclusive As one item we'll be voting on those as a package This is the opportunity for someone to ask for an item to be taken from that So that we look at it Individually let me start through with council members. Do you have comments or a request with regard to the consent agenda? We'll start with miss bruner miss bruner. I would like to amend item five The minutes to reflect What the caller called in and I just looked at my notes from The that meeting and so I would like to amend that To reflect why don't you do that now if you have language? I do with that So item five minutes of the september 12 2023 city council meeting The minutes state that rachel soto spoke regarding establishing a covet hysteria committee and my notes Say that she spoke to establish asking us to establish a truth and reconciliation Commission that studies impacts during covet And the federalist magazine renewed hysteria shows why we need a covet commission To ensure americans won't repeat the same mistake You would like that added to The minutes to that item the minutes on that. Thank you without objection. That'll be the order. Let me see Do you have other items miss bruner? Miss callantary johnson. Um, I'd like to pull eight seeing that um our sciu members are here Item eight will be pulled. We will take that up Immediately after our consent agenda item madam vice mayor Councilmember walkins councilmember brown I'd like to pull item four item four bail schedule Okay Any others on that mr. Newsom Seeing here none Let me ask if there's anyone with us in chambers today who wishes to comment on or have pulled or ask a question about Any item on our consent agenda? We will be taking four and eight separately You'll have it if you're here on that we'll we'll be hearing from you separately Seeing hearing none anyone online Miss bush nobody with their hand raised no one with their hand raised. Okay I didn't have a question no minute I'll second that motion by the vice mayor second by councilmember walkins With with four and eight separated out and with the additions mentioned by Councilmember bruner clerk will call the roll Thank you. If I can just confirm regarding the minutes, um typically we would listen back onto the recording just to ensure that The language matches if you're amenable to that. Okay Thank you Fine, that'll be the clarifying direction. Good call the roll Councilmember newson. Hi brown. Hi Hi bruner. Hi Calentary johnson. Hi vice mayor golder. Hi mariculia. Hi Consented and it passes so ordered. We will take up item four This is a resolution updating the city of santa cruz bail schedule Mayor they can may ask. Uh, I'm sorry really A point of order. I guess It looks like we do have quite a few people in the chambers for Item eight and it looks like they may be on lunch break. So, um, let's if we could do that first Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely not wrong. Let's take up item eight item eight on our agenda Excuse me for just a moment. Thank you I made a side letters of agreement with service employees international union And supervisory oe three duty assignment and shift differential for loan operators and other related changes We have principal Analysts who if we have questions we can ask that person You asked for this item miss calentary johnson to be Taken over into this. Would you like to make any opening comment? Just that I noticed that our sci workers are here and wanted to give them an opportunity to speak to this Outside of consent very good. Here we go. Good afternoon Good afternoon. I'll be mindful of my microphone usage after Earlier, I just wanted to take the opportunity to point out that this is a good example of us working through with Great togetherness from the bottom all the way to the top. So some of my higher ups have Are present here in the chambers showing support and we just all together Understand the value and critical nature of the work that we provide on what it is that y'all are about to vote on And we appreciate your consideration of yes on this vote To continue the services that we provide and give us an opportunity to live with dignity and respect in the town that we appreciate Thank you. Thank you so much Anyone else wish to address us on item eight? Good afternoon, sir Good afternoon Good afternoon. My name is rome norman. I'm the wastewater collection manager. I also run the public works after hours duty program And I'd like you to strongly consider the report that will be in front of you From our chief people's officer and brought forward by debbie jones These employees behind us. They perform a very vital service To keep our utilities and our city safe and running We are a full service city and we provide these services to our community These people will work very hard at great sacrifice They do this because they love their city and they love their job I am looking forward to your support and I think this is very worthy Document that they're going to bring forward. Thank you. Thank you, sir Anyone else who wishes to address the council on item Number four. Good afternoon, sir Good afternoon, mayor kealy council members chris cobra and deputy director for water operations I just want to echo what rome just said In terms of the services that these employees provide and the need for this, you know due compensation We're at 24 7365 operations. So that means christmas eve new year's morning Someone's at the desk running the operation and so things like the loan operator pay the call outs when the middle of the night The water main breaks these guys are on it And it's just about time that we Address some of these long-standing issues that needed updating. So thank you for your consideration of this Thank you for your testimony, sir Good afternoon Good afternoon larson graph with on the superintendent of water distribution And a large part of what we do Is reflected in this document and I think it'll be an accurate representation of some of the Holes that we've tried to plug in Our operation and I won't go into a huge detail about all the different things that we respond to but I'm echoing what several people have said before and just we need some Change and we we're hoping that uh, you folks will realize that and give us some support. Thank you Thank you so much, sir Anyone else wish to comment? Okay on this matter just back before the council We have a motion on this Motion by miss calantar johnson is our second I mean second by mr. Newsom under discussion Anyone wish to make comment on this item the vice mayor? I just want to make a brief brief comment I just want to thank everybody for coming down. I do always appreciate seeing you But I do value your time and just want to let you know that Especially where this was put on the agenda that it was on consent is something that's usually acknowledged that we're going to fully support So you have the support of the full council. I'm sure on this and so Thank you for your service and and we appreciate you I think on behalf of the council, I'll say what she said there we go. We're good clerk, I'll call the roll councilmember newsom I Brown I What hands I runner I Calentary johnson I vice mayor golder I and mary kealy I motion passes and so Thank you so much Appreciate your presence here and your good work We're on item eight miss calantar johnson. You I excuse me. We're on item four Miss brown you ask this item to be continued. Thank you mayor. I So just so everyone knows this is an update to our city bail schedule This comes to us from time to time to reflect changes in the County the the court schedule bail schedule, but also other fines that are Can't hear me I'll just wait for a second. Yeah, it's a it's a cheerful moment Okay There we go miss brown back to your okay. Hi welcome. Thank you. Welcome back So I this is the the bail schedule and this comes to us from time to time with changes to the amount that we We find for for different violations of the municipal code and And then additions to for new new items and So there's there's a whole list and i'm not going to ask That in detail about the list, but I did have some questions on these changes And I also have some comments so I um and i'm not sure who I will be directing my questions to let's let's let's make sure we have the right person here Yeah, this is going to be you. Mr. Condati. It's going to be miss bronson. We'll be answering this. Hey All right Thank you miss bronson. So, um I am so under 5.82 point 11 o.m That's I think it's like the fourth one down in the table um So the the for um The the code that I'm going to ask a question about is 5.82 point 11 o m I'm just wondering what are the certain activities That the certain enforcement activities. It's it's a pretty general Listing here, and so I'm just trying to get an understanding of what that What what you envision that meaning You know I was prepared for a lot of different questions, but not that specific one It will take me a little bit to pull up the municipal code So as you know, this reflects municipal code that's already passed. It doesn't reflect any change in the law whatsoever So what you see here is basically the high level summary of what the municipal code says So to answer that specific question I would need to review the municipal code, which I think tony's probably doing right now And and I really apologize for not getting that to you in advance because Yeah, 5.82 is our sidewalk sidewalk vending Regulations, okay, so it most of those are dealt with by administrative citation So this is a specific classification of offense that would be issued an infraction citation That's processed through the court system. Great. Thank you. Um, and So, um The next one I have is uh Uh 6.12050 Illegal storage of receptacles Scavenging this is um, sorry this this one's 050 I think I skipped ahead illegal storage of receptacles. I'm gonna go back to scavenging in a moment. Um illegal storage of receptacles What is what is that? Just the context for that would be helpful I'm guessing tony might pull it up before I do it, but I'm trying to one second the section of the code deals with storage of refuse containers commercial residential public private I apologize for not getting these to you in advance. I'm just trying to understand residential or commercial Okay, so just in general requires that they be stored in a manner manner that's safe and sanitary Gotcha, and don't obstruct sidewalks and whatnot Okay, um, I see we're increasing the fines on scavenging from such said receptacles Which is a little higher up here. Um, just wondering how who will be in How do we envision enforcement on that one? It's kind of a question for a lot of these but I'll I'll just ask for that one specifically. How do we envision enforcement? for scavenging I mean, I think it's fair to say that the police department would not prioritize that as an enforcement item Probably in most instances, it would be when a customer reports the scavenging activity that's on on an ongoing basis Okay, gotcha um The uh, okay, so now I have another code number. I don't know what line it is in the table 10.40 0.2 7 0 this is about idling Something that was raised in our west cliff discussion at our last council meeting. So it's on my mind Idling how long What an engine is there some standard around that? What's the what does the code say about The length of idling the section makes it unlawful for a person to Permit a vehicle to idle for more than 90 consecutive Seconds while that vehicle is parked on a city street Okay, I remember this ordinance as having really been Having arisen out of concern for pollution and and noise generated by absolutely vehicle idling Okay And then The last one that I want to ask about is um 19.05.1 70 When do vacant premises become a violation of the fire code? and you just Oh 170. Yeah 170 It's on the it's on page Six the last page of the table So that section is um as you know the city every three years adopts uniform building fire electrical plumbing Grading codes whatnot. Um, this is a modification to the standard Um uniform fire code and it states that Temporarily unoccupied buildings structures premises or portions thereof Including tenant spaces to be safeguarded and maintained in accordance with 311.1.1 through 311.5 and so I would have to refer to a fire code or to the uh Um, yeah to the fire code in order to give you that specific Not necessary. I just wanted to see if there was a reference point that I could Get back to to understand where it's coming from. Thank you um So I I'm not sure that people will Are on the line who want to speak to this. I'd like to let members of the public speak who are inclined I don't have any other questions Um, but I do have a couple of comments Um, I'll save for after Public members of the public any other council member have questions on this item? Anyone with us who wishes to comment on this item? Anyone online who wishes to comment on this item? Nobody with their hand raised no motion would be in order Okay I'll just I'll move the uh, I'll move the item Council member Watkins move the item vice mayor sections under debate and discussion council member brown I uh, thank you. I just want to say that I am gonna be no vote on this. Um, this I've I've been uh on this body for many years and I've had issues with Some of these updates over time. I don't disagree with many of them But I feel that there are a significant number here that are really just focused on, um, you know property poverty They're really poverty crimes And I I can't support Increasing fines and creating new Citations that that Really caused people to You know just undermine people's ability to get out of poverty or to get off out of homelessness So, um, I won't be supporting the item But I really appreciate the explanations on the the ones that I asked about and Um, I'm sorry that we're we're here and I I don't think that anything I say is going to change the outcome here So I'm just going to leave it there. Thanks Thank you council member further debate or discussion seeing hearing none the clerk will call the roll Council member nuisance I Brown no Watkins I runner I Johnson I face mayor golder I and mary kealy I motion passes and so ordered. We're on item number 10. This is the second and final adoption second reading final adoption Of a an ordinance pertaining to prohibitions and limitations on wastewater discharge We've had this item in front of us on a previous occasion, which is why we're in second reading final adoption And we will let me ask if there are questions by council members on this item questions comments Anyone who's with us today wish to make a comment on this item Mayor I do have a couple of questions We'll uh Ms. Timber just a moment. We're going to take the council member and then we'll be with you Do we have anyone online on this item? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. We'll be right with you on that council member Thank you. Um, I would like to take this opportunity to invite mr. Vabatola to uh, come up and and answer a couple of questions I we were We reviewed this item. This is a second reading and my purpose here is to ask some questions that I think Others may have an interest in as well I don't want to take a lot of time But I think it may save mr. Vabatola time if some of these can get answered. We'll see So, you know, I would when you presented I was really interested in better understanding the Um, the the changes that were taking place in in terms of the substances you identify of concern in our water supply And the potential sources, you know, some were were delisted and others came on to the list And so I'd love to hear a little bit about Where those are coming from just more of your thinking about What's going on here with these changes And um, you know anything else that you would like to share to help the public understand and those who are Inquiring with you as well. Thank you. Council member And thank you mayor and city council. Um, if you don't mind my introducing my senior environmental compliance inspector Dev Martin, we work together with the other three Staff persons and an engineering firm in coming to these conclusions So the general question you're asking is we're making changes and some of those changes the More immediate changes focus on the idea that the Reclaimed wastewater might become the next source of portable drinking water Whether within the city or for the purposes of pure water soquel The compounds that are bringing additional resources to bear on these are As I presented them to you the last time are acetone formaldehyde perchlorate carbon disulfide and best phallus I could tell you more about each and every one of those things But they're all important in terms of public health and consumption And most of them had never been detected Because we'd never focused on them since we were discharging simply to the ocean And now we're discharging to sources that might become drinking water sources and We were surprised at the levels of detection of many of these specifically acetone and also formaldehyde acetone because we simply thought were just Used for cosmetic reasons, but they're also used. It's also used for cleaning machinery and all that So there must be a lot more industrial users in the community that we hadn't focused on previously Phallus, I think everybody's already aware of because of the linings for straws and other consumables and Unfortunately, they've now been identified in Mother's milk and all that and 50 years ago. You couldn't see that So it's important now that we restrict what passes through and becomes source material for drinking water So that's the more immediate focus for compounds We've never looked at before And that's why we're proposing to come back to you in the next couple of years when we have harder numbers To be able to control those things but we're putting you on notice that we'll continue in the effort specifically because of those compounds I'd also listed compounds that we thought That it wouldn't Hirm us to delist These compounds are currently detected at great cost because there's a lot of literature that Pinpoints them as being significant for for environmental health at certain levels But we couldn't measure them until about 10 years ago. Nobody could measure them reliably We had the technology about 12 years ago and we had enough data 10 years ago So we added them and so we've had a history now of how reliable we can measure them and at what levels we find them Dioxons being one of those groups. So we see these compounds at what we typically call Parts per billions of billions in other words It'll take you a few lifetimes to consume the levels we see before you could measure outcomes So we're thinking we can save money by eliminating those kinds of compounds and focused more On the compounds that we still need to learn how to measure more accurately compounds like Microplastics and things like that that others are beginning to talk about But nobody has either standardized the method and therefore cannot really standardize Controls for That's the reason for T listing some of those and I provided the list of those things were T listing And I think those are probably speaking your two major questions. And then we also added vanadium And boron to the list of compounds that we now found that we hadn't found previously And they're important in terms of the wastewater treatment system Which was the original focus of the local limits I think that those are that was my question. I wanted you to give you an opportunity That there's anything else you think is important to share since you're here Um, that'd be great. Otherwise, I really appreciate all of your work And thank you for being part of the team as well sir. Thank you. And with that I will, uh Move the item Second by miss brunner Let me see if we have questions or comments from members of the public miss time browner I'll rescind my motion. Sorry forgot. It's fine. It's under discussion. It's fine. There's a motion on the table, but please Thank you. My name is back a stein brunner. I've been watching the pure water so cal project since its inception With approval of the eir in 2018 um, I'm aware that the um, central coast water quality control board will not Um, be considering the approval Of the city's wastewater permit release Until december 14th 15th. So i'm a little curious about why um, your council is taking this action that Permit is actually currently under public review and public comment is open until october 12th So, um, i'm curious about that the Section two of the resolutions does not include Nitrosamines, which are a very common um, carcinogenic disinfection byproduct and This effluent that the city's wastewater outfall will include after pure water so cal um Brine return from their treatment plant on shanticleer will be included in the city's wastewater outfall Ndma Nitrosamines are part of that And it's not included in any of the um components being monitored or included in your your resolution here I request that you do that or at least look into it I also want to say that there um Is a leak in the city's wastewater outfall pipe. It has been detected for many years. It was shown. It is being monitored in 2020 mr. Peter von Lungen sent a letter to Mr. I believe it was mr. Bobacola that they wanted some response about how serious the leak was it has been showing up in annual diplume Um analysis Two times in 2019 And the city is monitoring it. However, I do not know if it has been monitored since the very violent storms of 2023 I suggest that you request that be done And if it is increasing we need to fix it It needs to be fixed because it's pretty near the shore and we are beach town um Adding in effluent from Soquel creeks project will include carcinogens And I think we need to fix that leak Um Thank you Thank you Anyone else wish to address us on this motion in front of the council. Good afternoon, sir Yeah, good afternoon. My name is james ewing women. I spoke briefly on this. What was it two weeks ago? um You know Santa Cruz county is really fortunate to have an incredible mostly pristine watershed That I from my memory has been evaluated at a billion dollars So I know I don't remember exactly the loan that was taken out against it before but It's maybe three years ago But recently within the past month the uh environmental protection agency bank Loans you guys between 123 and 127 million dollars So I actually have a lot of questions. I do appreciate that there was more information provided Thank you very much for that, but I still questioned some stuff And I'd not been working. I probably would have bought a Uh container of fluoride toothpaste Or it says if you ingest a piece not much larger than a pea Swallow it you should call poison control so um Fluorides being added to a lot of people's waters. I know that it's limited here, but when things get consolidated fluoride goes in the water So a 50 pound bag which anybody could carry an adult could carry It takes 240 000 gallons to um Bring that to a safe level and I'm not exactly sure what the EPA calls What's actually safe? I question a lot, but if this building is 30 feet by 40 Um that is this building 600 feet tall to process 50 pounds of fluoride So Phallates were mentioned. I you know, it's 12 to 15 years ago that kpfa did a presentation where over 1100 Out of 1200 chemicals contain phallates Um, those are synthetic estrogens It's like that vinyl soft plastic It's really toxic at incredibly low levels now. I look Okay I can see that so um Kind of didn't have time to fully look at the definitions of maybe the 30 chemical compounds that were listed um But The dioxins weren't really listed and I'm really questioning the integrity of the EPA particularly with the train Crash which over 500 000 gallons of various chemicals were burned So EPA tested for those chemicals Which turns into dioxins By some people's calculations a couple parts per billion are very toxic So although this is just wastewater and we're very fortunate to have a Pristine source there are areas around the country where water is being recycled and people are drinking that so I wish I had 20 minutes to talk about this but um Next to breathing water is the most important thing that human beings need and uh In seconds not really enough time, but Anyway, I'm just questioning some caution. I'll bring it up again. Thank you Thank you, sir Anyone online miss bush? No, Dr. Henry's okay Anyone else wish to address the council on this item max items back before the council debate and discussion We have a motion on the floor Any debate or discussion? I will inquire Um I'm forward and bring your colleague with you Um and while you're approaching let me also thank you for the public private recognition last week of the ocean Clean ocean businesses and Santa Cruz who are doing a really good job of working with the city to make sure that What goes out into our wastewater system and treatment system is is done so well And these are the people in the private sector going above and beyond we really appreciate your presence there Now that you're out the microphone. Would you uh comment on a couple of the items miss steinbrunner brought to our attention? I'll be glad thank you and um starting with what perhaps would seem most alarming the issue of um toxicants coming out of the leak So the leak has been detected intermittently that's the The term of emphasis Intermittently for more than 20 years. That's because it's such a slow low leak and the um methods of detection pita von langen the engineer that uh miss steinbrunner cited Asked us to study it and on the basis of that we acquired votes and um ROVs to do The best possible measurement that science would support so we have dyes that are Not particularly visible to the human eye the spectrum is so sensitive and we have sensors that we mount and Look at how much of that dye Under pressure comes out at that leak and Feet further because the leak uh, so everybody knows is that 70 feet And the diffusers are Another 30 feet into the ocean altogether this whole Expanses a little more than a mile offshore So what we did and Dave here was the principal person We we what I did was to gather a group of scientists together from and barry from ucsc and from noa to guide us in the studies and Dave led the three other inspectors into the ocean to do the studies and essentially What was found was that The totality of what would come out of the leak under these extreme conditions Would be the equivalent of what would come out 30 feet Downstream in one of the diffusers in other words It's as they had described originally It's a leak. It's a small leak It would cost a few Maybe 10 million dollars to fix it It would be more damaging to the economy to break the rep wraps and then to try to reconstruct That kind of a leak. So not only did we study it. We studied twice And we're committed to doing that twice annually and that's where the consent of the water board So specifically that question has been asked and we have a system to ask and re-answer that question until We're certain that it's going to Either deteriorate in which case you would put in the millions of dollars necessary But if it stares the way it is which is Sometimes detect detectable It's not worth the community's effort to do it. It doesn't do the damage that an alarm might Signify quickly ask you that and and the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute And the other scientists you've brought along sandcoats agree with that. Absolutely. Thank you As to the sequencing between the the regional water quality control board in our action here There's a sequencing question From me I'm sorry. There was a sequencing issue raised by miss steinbrunner and if I understood it correctly it was That the regional board has A The same or similar item in the front of them And if I got the import of what she said it was Shouldn't we hold until they take their action then we take our action So I think did I get that right? No, thank you The question she asked was the local limits question And I think she thought she's probably still does Think that the local limits are part of the npds permit They're not So the permit can go on And we've done local limits This is a third iteration of it in my career here and we've had like five permits So they're not really linked The local limits are mandated by the federal government For the specific purposes of making sure That you're not running a plant That's dangerous to the people in it That you're not allowing chemicals into the system that the plant doesn't have the technology to support And also that what comes out of treatment systems Which ultimately will be in biosolids or in the receiving waters Or not going to be harmful to the environment So the chemistry that we look at Is focused on those things and that's separate and distinct from The permits the permit Generally have to do with testing The appropriateness of the technologies that you have it's called the npds permit That's a national pollution discharge elimination scheme That's a scheme that was started in 1970 That was specific to grading your ability to treat It's a little different than the public health issues Environmental health issues that local limits focus on the local limits tell us Allow us to tell the community on a defensible basis What can be treated? What's not harmful? And That's that's a difference. So Yes, the regional board is aware of the local limits, but it has nothing to do with the permits at all The permits I should rightly point out or in process of their own. Thank you, sir Very much appreciate matters back before the council debate or discussion. Ms. Brunner There was one more question Regarding mdma Monitoring Can you speak to that please absolutely So it was one of the first items that struck us because of the potential to use it in drinking water. So yes We sampled not only the city but also in the county And it just wasn't there in measurable Thank you for the debated discussion seen here none the clerk will call the roll Okay, who moved it Seconded I'm sorry. Excuse me Motion we had a motion in a second. Yes Councilmember newson aye Brown Aye Watkins aye Brunner Aye Pellentary johnson Aye Vice mayor golder Aye And mary kewy All right, motion passes and sir watered Thank you for your good work on that. We're on item number 11 This is a tree permit appeal at 339 walnut avenue There'll be a staff presentation then we'll hear from the appellant hear from everybody But let's start with Mr. Beck good afternoon Good afternoon mayor keely council Give me a moment to pull up the presentation and Bonnie can you help me with the share function? Which share the zoom webinar share? Here we go Okay, here we go um so Before we jump into the particular Specifics of this appeal. I did want to just offer a moment's A background in context on our urban forestry program for the council and the community Urban forestry generally is the care and management of all of the trees in an urban area including both those planted And those naturally occurring In 2021 in the preparation of our street tree master plan We identified nearly 14,000 community trees in the city of santa cruz Those are trees in parks along streets other city facilities That does not include all the trees in our open spaces nor trees in private property So that's a lot of trees to take care of The department of parks and recreation Takes responsibility for managing the urban forest And we have many different functions which are outlined here Including care Sorry, you're gonna want to put it on the slide show. Okay after Now to work perfect. Thank you It's including care of about 5 000 of those 14 000 community trees We do tree planting last year the city planted over 300 trees directly Emergency response you may imagine during the storms last winter A busy we were running around making sure the streets remained open And private property emergencies were dealt with We do policy development such as the street tree master plan I mentioned Working on the objective standards last year to make sure that street trees are included in all new development projects Plan review following up on projects that come before The planning commission for review to make sure that heritage trees are being properly preserved street trees are being included, etc Permitting which is what we'll be talking about today And then following up with inspections for example on sidewalk opening permits to see if root pruning can be done properly Code enforcement and education So it's quite a lot and just wanted to give that broader picture as we look at the specifics of today's item So this is the appeal of the parks and recreation commission approval of an application to remove one coast redwood tree at 339 walnut avenue And again to provide a little background in context When uh, we are asked to review permits. We do so following guidance from city ordinances and council policy So our heritage tree ordinance States that when a permit comes in for a heritage tree or shrub The director or his designee or urban forester will make findings of fact upon which they either grant the permit Deny it modify it et cetera And the facts that they're looking for to see if it meets criteria established in the city council resolution And there are several criteria that can apply in today's case the criteria of Interest is that the heritage tree has or is likely to have an adverse effect upon the structural integrity of a building Utility or public or private right of way. So that's what we are looking for when we evaluate these cases This is the tree in question Uh upon inspection by our urban forester. It was found to be sound In good health not suffering from pest or disease issues Approximately 120 feet tall This is the base of the tree And it can seem as if it is two trees because of the two trunks But because they're coming from a single point of origin We deem it a single codominant tree And the other findings from the initial inspection were that the tree is cracking the public sidewalk curb gutter and street It's cracked the sidewalk around the fire hydrant and could impact the water lines there in the future And roots are growing under the adjacent structure of the apartment building damaging the fascia and The foundation wall And here's some photos from the inspection. This is the damage on walnut avenue You can see the fire hydrant there in close proximity to the tree This is the sidewalk damage on Lincoln street the other side of the corner Here we have additional damage to that sidewalk as well as to the street in front of the property And these photos show how close the base of the tree really is to the wall And the foundation of the building This is taken from the outside And shows some superficial damage to the fascia and apparent cracking of the foundation wall And then a structural engineer who was retained by the applicants took these photos from the inside of the building Showing additional cracking of the foundation that occurred And the structural engineer jody collins Recommended that the tree be removed in order to preserve the structure Now again at the beginning of a permit application We have the choice of can we approve it? Can we deny it? Can we modify it? So a question is often raised Could something different be done in order to preserve the tree? So in this case our urban forester concluded that the sidewalk area damage could possibly be addressed really by reconfiguring the sidewalk to Take a different alignment And in these cases that would be the responsibility of the property owner to bear the cost of that But such damage would likely reoccur in the future as the tree grew Over the tree is really too close to the building foundation as we saw in those photos to perform root pruning work According to industry standards without risking the health and stability of the tree And therefore a root barrier could not be installed to protect the foundation And these findings were also found by a consulting arborist retained by The applicants donald cox recommended as well that the tree be removed and that no mitigation was possible So that leads us to our recommendation that the city council uphold the parks and recreation commission decision to approve heritage tree removal I just want to share one additional point before returning to that which is the question of replanting our Heritage tree ordinance requires that mitigation be done in the case of permitted removal of heritage trees This is the text of the updated resolution that was passed by council last november Which calls for the replanting of either three number 15 container sized trees or one 24 inch container 24 inch box tree on the property in the event of tree removal Or else the payment of an in lieu fee that would cover the cost of planting and establishing a tree elsewhere And in this case the applicant has submitted a bond payment indicating their intent to replant on the property With that bring it back to the recommendation. I'm available for any questions If you have them Thank you. Let me see if there are initial questions From the council miss colin tarry johnson. You had a question. I'm sorry. I need to see him Miss brunner. It's count time. Okay. Miss colin tarry johnson. Then miss brunner questions over here Okay, and mr. Newsome. So let's go with miss colin tarry johnson. Thank you for the presentation um I'm curious. Do we know how old the tree is and whether the tree was there first for the structure We don't have an evaluation of that. I'm sorry. And was the tree planted by the The the excuse me property owners or the city you may be able to add it was not planted by the city And you may be able to ask the applicants about whether they planted it Okay, um Okay, I have other thoughts, but I'll hold those. Thank you. Thank you miss brunner That was my question as well Mr. Newsome Okay, do you have a question? I just have one clarifying miss walkins Just to confirm our arborist as well as their independent arborist also determined the tree needed to Be removed based on the criteria. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay For the questions All right, so that we understand the process. We all understand the process There will be an opportunity up to 15 minutes For the appellant which excuse me if I mispronounce your first name keelin frenzine And it might be friends and I might have messed up both the first and the last name and I apologize for that We'll have 15 minutes to speak and present any evidence that you want to present At that point a representative of santa cruse property management will likewise be permitted up to 15 minutes To speak and provide any Evidence they may wish to provide. We'll we'll then have counsel and Questions of staff again public comment And then the appellant will have Five minutes time to rebut at the end of all of that We will have a an action taken by the city council. Good afternoon and accept my apology That's okay, my name is keelin frenzen Good afternoon mayor kealy and city council. I do have a powerpoint presentation that Like to get on the screens Okay. Hi, my name is keelin frenzen and I care I grew up here in santa cruse actually on walnut hill Just a lesson a block up from the street So I know it I have lived by my whole life Currently I live down on chestnut street and I can see this tree from my front porch So I I know I already did this for the parks and rec. We had a big Hearing it was really intense. Also. I apologize for quivering in my voice This is very nerve-wracking for me as I'm not comfortable probably speaking. You're doing great. Thank you But I would not be here today taking it up for a second appeal if it wasn't for Three of the parks and rec council or commissioners Uh, recommended that we took this up with the city council They felt that this decision was uh, you know, if of course this tree fits a criteria to be taken down And putting any burden of a danger on the property owners was a little outside of their comfort zone But they had hoped that maybe the city could find a resolution here Um, so I want to say that I guess the the issue here is the You know, the the tree is going to keep growing and it's right next to this Big building big tree big building. This is a huge tree. It's one of the largest trees in Santa Cruz Um, can we go to the next slide? So there's two ways forward. Um, we can cut it down and forget about it and problem solved, right? Well, I don't think that's um, you know, I think it's a little short-sighted Because um, if these trees roots are as immense as we think and are completely fused with this entire hillside as they rot away, uh, will Make a vacuum or a negative space under the entire road and the whole hillside, which is very steep here The street's holding the whole mountain in if you can imagine And so the building will need these Foundation repairs anyway So why not we take a separate? Uh path forward where we improve the building to make it last with a tree Um, because if we, you know, think about like long-term future Um, this mid mid century apartment building, you know, it's been here a long time It's a really great place and it could continue to be for a long time But the lifespan of any building in Santa Cruz won't come close to the lifespan of this species of tree Sequoia sempervirens have been known to live up to 3,500 years And um, that's the oldest documented one and it was only killed because humans cut it down um, so it's you know Biologically immortal to sort of speak. It's the only thing that uh, we'll make it die is someone killing it I think uh, we can you know, um find a way forward Uh that you know think about in 100 years when you're Uh, you know, your grandchildren are walking down Wall Avenue and they see this great tree that's You know been there for so long right next to a building and you can notice Oh some work was put in to protect this tree because it's that important Okay, next slide Okay, so this amazing tree in particular. Um, I just want to talk just a little bit about it specifically because it is a You know a special tree. It's not any Street tree. It's huge. Um, it also has a you know 28 foot circumference at chest height, which is over 80 percent larger the The required size to be considered a heritage tree 80 percent larger than you know, a lot of the heritage trees we see You know, they're nice and big but this thing dwarfs them immeasurably It also has a really, um amazing Structure a lot of redwood trees have like hanging branches where they don't really provide too much of a Shade foot for none underneath it, but this one has a broad upward reaching branches, which is very rare in urban redwood trees Um, and it's something to be considered how much of a canopy this covers as it reaches more than halfway across the street um And again, uh this hill I've grown up on it's always leaking some water. There's two springs One in the lawn of sankers high that's always oozing and the other one right across the street The water table is high here and redwood roots Especially this one are reaching Very far and wide, you know hundreds of feet out I have uh, you know our neighbor has a redwood tree about uh 150 feet away from our backyard But I find the roots in my garden beds because it's where you know, they find the good soil and want to grow there I don't think these redwood roots are digging underneath a dry Crawl space area. I think they're soaking up the water. That's just uh, just above them Um, also while trying to research this tree to figure out if it really was older than the apartment building Um, I found this aerial photo from 1952. You can see Um, and you know, it is just a little black blob. So I can't Confidently say that's the tree, but this is six years before the linwall was built and it is Um, looks like there's a tree right in that same spot I would also be in incredibly surprised if this tree is The same age as the building based off its size and how much it's grown The other thing uh, walnut avenue is famous for its tree tunnel a lot of the like tourist Santa Cruz pages often post photos of walnut avenue because it's so pretty The tree tunnel there is amazing. Everyone likes to drive up that street This is one of the only native trees. It's part of that canopy and You know, it's a The section of walnut right there is very concrete. There's retaining wall on both sides It's a big gray wall here and a big gray wall there And uh, if you take out this tree, it's going to be a big Hole that's going to be felt by everyone all the students everyone that lives here. It's a big void um That won't be um able to be you know replaced in any of our lifetimes So next slide, please So there's a lot of reasons to care it's more than just a tree. Um, you know these points that kind of feel like we're all pretty familiar with You know running a city and like you talk about the Or the tree master plan. It's really important to have trees and this one's specifically important because it's so big But you know, uh, it's uh This little area this corridor has several other large redwoods there and there's often birds of prey hawks and owls I see them. I hear them. You know as I walk by they're there. They're very important We have a big rodent problem downtown and these are the really the only guys helping out with that So it's really important to fight, you know with this canopy being removed It's not going to be replaced and that continues to shrink Um, the diff the fusion of noise is really important You know, the the big concrete walls are just reflect the noise and and this tree's um Really broad canopy Sorry, my mouth is so dry. I'm trying to conjure up some spit Um But yeah, and then uh, the amount of oxygen this tree produces is is enough that probably each one of our breasts in this room Right now has a little bit of the molecules that this tree made. It's quite immense how much oxygen a mature redwood tree can make Next slide, please Um real climate change mitigation in uh, you know in a time and in a place where we really care about this Um trees are legitimate um tools to use redwood trees hold more than three times the amount of carbon as Any other tree on earth they're massive and they like You know, they hold it in they are rot resistant that um carbon that the capture stays in physical form Is a full service to a council member Save my life, um And uh So it's a you know, we're like trying to find carbon solutions and this one's right here. It's been doing its job for you know decades and You know, it's it's a very valuable tool and we can't squander it temperature regulation as well this uh tree shades more than half of this 19 unit apartment building and uh, just the energy Reduction that Brings is immense Next slide, please This is a quote from our city arborist leslie heedy She was there at the last appeal Arguing against me and I just found so many good quotes and I Just really want to say You know, I really support The work arborists do to ensure trees have a place here But I just I find a little bit of a like Contradictory uh statements by uh, what arborists say and what arborists actually do is as in like, um you know, um Allowing for uh trees to be removed without further work put into This quote says as the natural canopy declines in the third world in our country The urban tree population is really what we're relying What everyone's relying on to mitigate global warming Um, this quote comes from a good times article that is from 2016. It's really worth the read titled does sanctuary city deserve its tree city usa designation? Um, and this article just talks on on about how many big trees we've lost Um, and like it really talks between 1995 and uh, 2015, I believe and um, over 4 000 heritage trees Were approved to be removed. That's about 80 percent of the applicants filed were approved um Next slide, please So, um, what if we just slow down? Um, I I really think this this whole process was expedited by this sidewalk being broken and uh, you know, the property owners were um made aware of that situation and uh, you know They they see oh man, this tree has really gotten big on us. What do we do here? Oh just cut it down so it's like um, something that I've noticed is My entire life this tree has been Just about the same size sitting just about as close to the building with very little if any maintenance care to prevent A sticky situation like this where it's you know, we're between You know, uh, there's no like easy Good solution. So um, you know this are two google street view photos from 2011 2022 Um, the tree is just about the same size. You can see even zooming in the trunk is is Sitting right in the same place on the sidewalk. It's not, you know, exploding with growth rapidly. It's A very mature tree that's growing at a steady rate um And you know, I I've seen it my whole life and when I finally saw the the permit to remove poster I just I was I was heartbroken because this There's so many times who have done something and it's just like oh the sidewalks broken You know, we got to tear out the whole tree Seems a little short-sighted like You know, what's pressing up against the building right now is is a dirt That, you know, it's fallen there. There's a lot of This is a very steep little area the the building itself is under the grade of the sidewalks So there's like a bit of a trench there So the dirt is always eroding and falling down getting compacted against the brick facade And this could be, you know, cleaned out and removed and it gives feet of breathing room to The building and I really do you think that kind of stuff makes a difference and this isn't a You know urgent removal the buildings are not going to fall down these cracks could have been decades old from an earthquake We're not even sure they are from the tree. That is something that is Written in this the arborist report. This was I'm not gonna bother to find that right now, but it's uh, there's a lot of things in here written about the building's Structure that are not Necessarily connected to what the tree is doing here like vents being clogged by leaf litter You know, there's that can be amended without removing a tree and the rotting joists underneath will need to be replaced regardless if the tree is there or not and I just think a lot of The decisions made to protect the building just think of the trees and nuisance, which it certainly isn't as it is so important Next slide please So the solutions like if you know like we're stuck in a place like what are the solutions if there isn't any You can't work around it. I think that we could work around it because The the way this building is built into the side of the hill here. It's very steep There's access from under the garage to this specific corner of the building where the tree is near And I think that construction can be done in a way, you know, I am not a Engineer and I I don't mean to speak like I know what I'm talking about entirely here But doing some simple research online foundation underpinning is used often to reinforce threatened foundations And there's many different types of it that could be implemented here And one thing I want to speak of about redwood trees in particular is their roots are You know, like the the industry standard not to damage the roots Is you know important But I've seen redwood trees survive cash drop of fires 100 years ago and continue to grow with an entirely hollowed out root system So I think some careful root pruning would not knock this tree down, especially since it has such a wide immense base holding it sturdy next slide, please So the sidewalk as well It seems very obvious to make the sidewalk a little bit curved just like it's done on For this large redwood on church street, which is just right up the block It also encourages the tree to grow where it has room rather than towards the building And this intersection itself is Or Lincoln and Walnut meet is a Place that kind of needs a crosswalk. I see a lot of jaywalking there. It's just when you walk up Lincoln You just want to cross where cars go fast. This whole area could be improved. Maybe that can be considered when moving forward Next slide, please I've kind of hit on a lot of these points already, but The arches trees are dwindling and I don't you know as as someone who really Love Santa Cruz. I I don't love how we treat our trees All the new trees I see planted are crepe myrtles Or other what I like to call horticultural atrocities They are not native and they do not provide anything to the ecosystem rather than just looking like a cute little rendered 3d tree I think that We need to really focus on conserving what little native giants we have left And choices like these can really Make a big difference worldwide like if the Santa Cruz says, hey, we're going to save this Redwood tree. We're going to show them that we can Then a lot of other trees down the line could be preserved as well One thing is like the the housing that this apartment building Offers is really important and I think there is a way to You know prioritize this housing and protect the tree. I don't think it's You know one or the other And then the last slide Perhaps this tree may meet the criteria to be removed. However, maybe this criteria does not align with the values of our community We implore the city to be responsible for offering alternative solutions to protect our deeply loved native heritage trees from being cut down Financial and engineering support and at a minimum the city should be responsible for providing thorough considerations of all possible solutions The tree is worth the effort. Thank you very much. Thank you very much This would be the opportunity for the applicant a representative for Santa Cruz property management To make your presentation In support of the appeal. Good afternoon. My name is mary barter My husband and David and I are here were half owners in that building with our sister and brother-in-law And we've owned it for 36 years And we We were Santa Cruz. Let me let me ask you. Excuse me. Yeah, you have a nice Voice just if you could speak right into that right now. Okay. Thanks Um, we lived in Santa Cruz at the time. Um, and then in the year 2000 We had an opportunity to move to Hawaii Which we took and from then on we've had managers managing managing it and um, but we can't come to visit it often To see what's going on. It's not like we woke up one morning and said let's go cut a redwood tree down um, we got a call from our um management company saying that the city arborist had called and said that um, there was a problem with the um The sidewalk and so we got in the car and came up here and um, we um Looked and the first thing we saw was oh, yeah, that's really tearing up the sidewalk Um, and then I looked at the building and I saw the faces falling off and there's some cracks there That doesn't look good so we called up the arborist and they said yeah, they had seen that also and um Suggested we get a structural engineer because we just didn't know, you know, so um, I Um, I think we got another arborist And I and we talked to the tree people which um our partners are on the board there and they donate tons of money to the tree people which their job is Kind of a lot of it is urban trees as well as planting forest trees and so they You know kind of looked at the pictures and looked at the reports and said, you know, they agreed with that the fact and I mean um, the appellant made some inaccurate statements that the only way redwood trees die is if we kill them I mean forest redwood trees do die All trees die, you know from time to time to make room for other trees or whatever is going on And it's not like um, we think that tree is a nuisance. We love that tree We love the other one that's on the other side of the building, which is a better distance from it We've never thought that tree was a nuisance. We always thought that it added Um, a great deal to the property and you know just walking around Um, but it's very worrisome what those roots are doing to the building. That's a where that damage is happening is Three stories below because it's a two-story building and then it has underground parking that Those cracks weren't there because when we bought when we bought the property because we looked all around you can see The foundation in the garage the only place that those cracks are you have to go into Um, a closet that we have there and so we went into that closet and those cracks weren't there So there were no cracks when we bought that building because we did buy it at the time of the earthquake after the earthquake So that was something that we were very careful about and we've done a lot of maintenance and improvements on that building We're about to do some more We just not include what this is because this would be a big deal also So, um It's an 18 unit building. It's pretty occupied almost all the time. It's almost never You know any kind of vacancy of of even a month It's very popular because you can walk to town The bus takes you right up to the university Kids we've had live there gone to the high school across the way. Um, and you know, it's beautiful and It's sad. I don't you know, I don't want that redwood tree to go either, but I I really you know a lot of Wishful thinking was what I heard of what we could do To save the tree and the building But the only experts we've contacted who are real experts Say that the building will continue to be damaged by the tree Whatever solutions they saw and we haven't gone further with the structural engineer But that's who we will hire next to figure out, you know, how we save the building what what we're going to do And of course that depends on what you decide here also um You know what our next moves would be so I don't have any other presentation. That's that's all that it is Thank you so much. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you for your presentation Me uh move to uh questions that council members may have Of uh of mr. Beck or others council member newson Uh, thank you marquelia and I have um A couple questions that I'd like to ask my first question is uh for the city attorney So we saw that The tree is buckling the sidewalk and we and we've heard that it will potentially buckle the sidewalk Further even if we moved it out does a tree buckling the sidewalk create a liability issue for the city and nor the property owner Yes, thank you for that question. Um I have a somewhat complicated answer But under our municipal code the owners of adjacent property are responsible for maintaining the sidewalk in a safe and passable condition The code also says that if as a result of the failure of a property owner to maintain the sidewalk in a non dangerous condition um Any person suffers an injury that the property owner is liable to that person um for the resulting damages and if the city is sued in that situation then Um, the city has a cause of action for indemnification against the adjacent property owner however, the code furthermore provides that um, no liability to the adjacent property owner shall arise under the code Where an application for a permit to correct a dangerous condition has been applied for and denied So in that event the city would be liable for a dangerous condition I'm not suggesting that that sidewalk couldn't be repaired with without removing the tree But that addresses the liability question that you posed Okay, so it does create some liability for both city and that's right depending on the and honestly even when Situation arises where there's there is not a permit application Even though we have that indemnity provision in the municipal code we still get sued for You know alleged dangerous conditions of city sidewalks And we still have to incur the cost to defend those Even if we have a claim for indemnity indemnity against adjacent property owners Thank you. Thank you. Um, so my my next question. Uh, well my next question was for mr. Beck, but he's already answered it by Showing us the mitigation requirements for if if this action were taken today what the mitigation requirements were being Thank you for that. Um, so my next question Kind of looks further down the line Than just the mitigation efforts to this action though it does inform kind of this action and or The mitigation effort to this possible issue And I want to provide some context to this question. This question is really for Director Elliott So we as a community care deeply about our our natural environment, especially in The urban areas in our community such as downtown And as the representative of downtown my vision is for downtown to eventually be a place where people can work Live and play in an environment while in an urban environment while surrounded by a green Landscape under a tree canopy overhead A beautiful lush urban forests that will make our downtown really one of a kind And the action is under consideration today If it were to be take the mitigation requirements will replace one tree with three trees in our urban forest in downtown But my question Over the next for mr. Elliott is over the next year Will more trees or many more trees much more than say just three trees for this Be planted in my district and particularly in the downtown area and from an equity standpoint Standpoint and the beach flats area, which is also neighborhood, which is also in my district Good afternoon. Mr. Elliott. Good afternoon. Thank you for that question council member I'd actually like to lean on our park superintendent Travis back to help respond to this question Director Elliott, thank you for that question council member Newsom um Yes, we have plans to do additional tree planting in the downtown area and beach flats as part of the Council direction following the library mixed use project We've been asked to plant 24 trees in the downtown area. We're also evaluating a number of other opportunities To increase planting in that area We additionally have just received a grant from the usda forest service For one million dollars to do better tree care and tree planting in our opportunity zones Which include the lower portions of downtown as well as beach flats So we'll be exploring over the next several years How to best implement that And we are working towards the goals of the street tree master plan to do additional planting as well as our climate action plan Which uh charges us with planting 3 000 trees by 2030 Thank you. Thank you. And that is uh, that is wonderful to hear about that grant and uh, one million dollars towards planting new trees in our In our community, especially in the lower downtown and beach flats area, but also underserved areas as well Thank you For the questions of staff by council members, did you excuse me miss brunner? I'm sorry, didn't see yes, please miss brunner um I I think My question is for the property owner I'm curious about what alternatives you've looked into Um besides tree removal Well, what we've been told by the officials is that we need to take the tree out And we have a structural engineer that says and an orbers that both say That's probably what need or you know in their expert opinion. That is what needs to happen So we're waiting for that to be Go to go forward And then you know talk to engineers and people who do building and do all that stuff you know And we'll we'll be working with anybody that we need to be working with um, but we're not the ones that can really say You know, oh, maybe we could do this or maybe we could do that all we can do is consult experts and Tell you what they've said understandable. I appreciate that. Um, I I certainly wouldn't be an expert We're horrified, right? Yeah, it's really where we're at the building To me the sidewalk is is a workable solution potentially But the building actually it's just that it's I'm wondering I haven't looked at it You know in the last few months because this all started in March And then it just kept put off and stuff and you know, the recommendation was to take it take it out. So, um Yeah, I mean They call them semperverens for a reason. They you know, they just keep growing I I asked the question because the appellant brought up alternative options to taking the Tree down and I don't know The the expert fact behind that. Yeah, and so I was curious if your We got a report from a structural engineering. Let's do this. Let the council member ask your question Okay, and then we'll let you answer fully Go ahead It sounds like, um It sounds like maybe alternative options Um, we're not Recommended by the experts that you consulted with a structural engineer structural engineer and the other arborist both Concured with the first opinions It's not like we told them We're going to pay you more to tell us what we want to hear because we don't know what we want to hear We're not experts, you know, we we love that tree We've come to the um to the city before when it was damaging the roof and you know Had to have approval to just cut, you know one branch and um Anyway, that's that's it. So if you know This has already been four months. I don't I don't know I mean if we need to do more and find out more if anybody needs to get more experts, I mean Please go ahead you know yeah my my Where what I'm thinking my concern is the housing And the apartments and how many apartments are there 18 I've I've been by there. I drove by there and you know We're in a housing crisis and you know, I don't take it lightly to that a tree is um potentially being asked to be removed, especially when as beautiful as and and Magnificent and giant as this one. Um, but the fact that The housing is you know impacted Is what I'm trying to understand and and what the expert recommendations have been around Any options for the housing to get around this? I mean, I think you should have the art the reports that we got Because we got them from you. So um, that's all we know. Thank you. I appreciate. Yeah, thank you Thank you Thank you, um To you both for the presentations that you made, um Question maybe for mr. Beck So let's say we Support the peel and we do not cut down the tree. Can you paint a picture of? What that will look like in the next three months six months a year Um, that's a good question. I'll begin the process others may wish to chime in If the appeal is supported then it's back on the property owner to Determine how they want to address the sidewalk damage and we would probably work with them in our public works department to develop proposals for the reconfiguration of that And then if they wish to preserve the building And do construction work in the vicinity of the heritage tree then they would apply for A further permit and we would evaluate whether that construction work Could be done safely to preserve the heritage tree Okay Okay, um, so my next question is what do we have in place now? So that this doesn't happen again. How are we dictating what kinds of trees where proximity? Or do we have anything in place? So that'll face with the situation where we're picking building or tree both which our community clearly values The resources that we have available as a city include our approved street tree list And we are in the process of updating that list to more clearly identify trees that are appropriate for small spaces So someone planting a tree in the future might be able to consult that list to pick an appropriate tree And then as I said, we do the plan review process in coordination with our planning department And so we leave it to project designers landscape architects to propose Tree plantings in Coordination with buildings and then we evaluate those to identify any potentialers. Okay. Thank you Mr. Brown Thank you I uh, I wanted to respond to the question about You know an an engineer's view or a non-engineer's view as We all are of What can be done as an alternative potential alternative and with respect to the sidewalk I I talked to a lot of engineers And a lot of kind of circumstances around infrastructure development in our county And in particular Transportation commission and what the engineers say is with enough money You can kind of do anything. So, um, I want to put that out there that this is um as all tree appeals seem to be a question of Economics versus the the value of the tree And and so so I want to ask perhaps a rhetorical question. What is our heritage tree ordinance for? I have yet to In my seven years on the city council See a tree appeal supported Not one so I want to ask us all to think about The um The commitment we have to Preserving these Trees right heritage trees large trees. This tree is um was there before the the building. I don't actually I don't think that that's the most important question to ask but it clearly was and It it clearly is a healthy tree our own Arborist has said that the problem is The it's going to cost money to save it And um, and so I want us to all think about that and I'm I'm I'm willing to have that conversation But I want to ask the question with respect to the Public infrastructure the sidewalk What could could the city Make an investment to support Fixing that in a way that might be sustainable It's it's not going to be sustainable over the long term no matter what because infrastructure fails You know buildings get to the end of their useful life But at least in the in the term for the kind of medium term Could the city Be involved in trying to find A way to address that issue and not leave it all on The property owners there And that's a question for the city staff anybody who'd like to Answer I can take one stab at it from the parks and recreation department in terms of our budgeted funds We have a heritage tree grant program that we use to um cost share for Property owners who are taking measures to care for or preserve heritage trees Typically that's $25,000 annually and typically that's spoken for So I don't know that a 50 cost share would you know cover the entirety of that budget I know the public works department has a sidewalk fund. I'm sure they have many planned uses for it So I won't speak for the public works department on that front, but of course it's up to council direction Good afternoon. Mr. Nguyen Good evening, mayor council members Travis, yeah Nathan one director public works. I can speak for public works Travis good timing up here. So we do The city we do have a sidewalk and lieu fund that Is funded by development where Projects can't install a sidewalk where it doesn't necessarily make sense to install a sidewalk as part of their project And so we have those Developers pay into the specific fund that we then utilize to either build sidewalk or With other projects using it like leveraging for other grand funded type of projects now Sidewalks in the city of Santa Cruz. We have a lot of missing sidewalk throughout our city And so it's really an ongoing effort for us to develop and construct these type of projects The sidewalk and lieu fund is a small a fund that we have And so we typically do rely on this ordinance that we have to put the responsibility on the adjacent property owner To maintain these sidewalks To answer your question councilmember brown The question about whether how much funding it would take to repair or maintain some of these sidewalks that are adjacent to a Lot of these heritage trees. It is true that we can spend Additional funds to make thicker sidewalk add more rebar But in the end it's a losing battle, especially with redwood trees that continue to grow And so it is a constant maintenance and effort again that we try to Share with the members of the public, but then again, we have our own challenges. I'm trying to develop sidewalk as well Hope that answers the question Further questions comments This would be the opportunity let me ask if there are members of the public who are with us today Who wish to make comment on this item? If so, please come forward. Ms. Bush. Do we have anyone online? We do let's start with someone online Hello, can you hear me? Good afternoon Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a wonderful city council meeting Um, this is actually my first city council meeting. So I'm just so grateful to be a part of it um, I'm a former student at uc santa cruz um And the first thing I noticed when I went to santa cruz was how beautiful The city infrastructure was and how it intermingled with the trees Um, as of right now i'm 27 and hoping to return to santa cruz for graduate school Um, what I was studying there was feminist theory. Um, as we know santa cruz has a long radical history You know of activism and um when it comes to feminist theory and the environment what What we often see happening is people trying to say That the most important thing is you know Housing right and I think that helen brought up so many beautiful points that These don't have to be contradictory arguments. These things can exist together But the most important thing is that as a community We get to come together and you know find creative solutions. Um I've often seen sidewalks in santa cruz where the roots are destroying You know the sidewalks and I think that Of course that does need to be fixed in time, but as was brought up Once this tree is cut down the amount of time that it will take to replace it is hundreds of years so no tree planted This year or next no three trees Will get the same amount of carbon out of the atmosphere as this tree and I think that um Again as a student I can speak to the amount of creativity in santa cruz and on the campus Of young people who are working to create environmentally friendly solutions um that includes, you know Permaculture design as well as like architectural design right that encompasses the environment So it's not fair that this is all put on the property management And I don't think you know anyone here wants to put it on the property management Um, it's clear to me that the council cares deeply about trees as well as everyone You know in this meeting, um I do think that it's really important to continue to street like to seek these creative solutions You know, you could get the school involved get students involved ask them. Hey come up with a design plan And I think that's what's gonna have to happen if we really want to create a solution for climate change right now Because we don't have 100 years potentially. I think you know, we're all feeling the effects of what's happening. We see the floods we see, you know The heat increasing and fire risks and what it comes down to is that um All these solutions, you know They need to focus on the environment first Um, and it is a timely process But it's one that we can do together as a community And I think we're really lucky to have young people like keelin Who does run, you know a native plant business. Um, he runs new gardening and so He does know what he's talking about. Um You know that the fact that the hill could collapse if the roots come down and that there might be potential to trim The roots is beautiful. So thank you so much for listening Well, thank you so much for participating. Good afternoon Good afternoon, mr. Mayor city council members members of the public I'm sorry. I'm a little disorganized I'm I'm Veronica Elsie. I live in Santa Cruz I'm the one who placed the call that started all of this I walk down walnut as my main route to town One of the reasons I walked down walnut going to town Is because I like the trees It has more character and it's more comfortable and I hate Lincoln street Because it has all the drainage channels that if I miss them I go down Um, and I've noticed over the last couple of years at that corner And I call it walnut walnut and Lincoln When I crossed there it first it started to get up and down little crevices and kind of goofy And as I continued to walk on it it got to the point where I couldn't figure out Where to put my feet I'd take one step and my foot would get caught Underneath a lip Because there was such a big uplift at one point I took a step and it slanted to the side and I twist my ankle and fell down I got back up. It's really a narrow place. I couldn't figure out how the high school kids were managing it One point coming home from town I got to the mess and I thought I'm not going to walk on this. I'm just going to go on the street I tried to step in the street And my foot went in a hole there So I'm I'm neither an engineer or an arborist Or anything. I don't know what you could do From the sidewalk They've done some grinding further down that I really appreciate Some of the sidewalks when they make them go around the trees. Yeah, they go around the tree, but they go around a big hole And so if you don't know you're about to come to one you really got to be careful not to hit the hole So let me start by saying That when I called the public works department I really appreciated That we have a public works department That listened and that took me seriously And they went out that afternoon and looked at it So let's just not forget we have a city that does care about people As I said I like walking on walnut because of all the trees And part of my dilemma standing here Is oh god, am I going to get the label of there goes the blind woman that took down our tree Because I love that tree too I don't know anything about what to do. I didn't even know I was walking past An apartment building all these years But I hope I'm sorry. Is that my my timer it is but take take a few more seconds and wrap up your comments I just really wanted to speak because I'm the one that made that call And I'm very conflicted. I love that tree But this sidewalk is impassable And now what happens Is right at the corner. I don't step up on the curb, but I walk out in the street And now everybody yells at me for walking in the street And then they yell at me because I don't know exactly when it's safe to get back up So I make my best guess And coming home because I'm so scared of hitting that spot I have to walk home on Lincoln And then confront my fear of all these stupid drainage channels And I just hope that whatever we do if we can save the tree it would make me very happy I wasn't I didn't say get rid of the tree. I just said it's unsafe. It's untenable And I hope that we can find some solution because I don't want to wait forever And not be able to safely walk to town Thank you so much. Well, thank you very much Do we have someone else online? We will go to the person online then we'll go back and forth as we typically do so good afternoon person online three two One good afternoon miss greenside. What are you doing? I'm doing that. I can't see the clock Some for some people it was on and some others so I was a bit worried Thank you. Okay, I'll start. Thank you very much. Um jillian greenside I'm speaking in support of the appeal I've appealed and over my 40 years have been concerned at the loss of our heritage trees in our city Many in my own neighborhood 20 30 heritage trees gone I've made a handful of appeals Not one has been successful and this criteria criterion has often been used to take the tree down Sometimes it's minor damage to an unpermitted garage tree gone And other time the seaside company got their engineer who said oh the the house is unbalanced mark mesete miller put his level on it said I don't see that nonetheless the tree is gone um, I I'm not going to say anything about the beauty the the benefit of this tree that has been well said I would like to direct your attention to the comments from the um the applicants structural engineer jody collins Jody Collins found that there was damaged or a separation of the brick veneer The definition of veneer is just a sort of coating. It's not structural two vents were blocked At the parks and rec commission where the vote was three to two Uh with two people absent the question was well, what about the other vents? It wasn't answered Uh, there's what at the floor joist ends. Well, that will have to be fixed and there were two cracks in the stem wall conclusion from Jody Collins was that the tree has caused minor Minor structural damage And cosmetic damage so I would go on mr. Frenzen's Request slow down Slow down here Taking the tree out is always the easiest solution and that's why they all go But I feel that you are willing to think slow down and think of alternatives Obviously the sidewalk has to be fixed no question and that can be done that so it would be safe For everybody who needs to navigate it But I'd like to ask a question until time goes This is an old tree much older than the apartments And I really think it's incumbent on somebody to say how old it is ever looked at the tree rings In henry cowl sometimes there's an inch and there's 20 tree rings So there's 20 years of growth Sometimes in less than an inch So we talk about this tree like it's growing It's going to grow next year. It'll cause severe damage. I don't think that's accurate I think the growth might be very very small And I think that you should be very concerned about getting rid of this tree as mr. Frenzen said What will happen to that hillside if you look at cowl beach and the collapse of the hillside I told the coastal commission. I'll give you five years before that cliff collapses because you took the trees out It took six years. I was one year off But the stable route stabilize Slopes so there's that to think of so I just urge you to slow down It's this is not the wrong tree in the wrong place This is a beautiful tree and if we can just look at alternatives since this is minor damage I think that's it would be good for the apartments and the tree. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Green So do we have anyone else online? Next person online. Good afternoon Good afternoon Hi, my name is jacob pollock and I am one of the parks commission Park commissioners that voted to keep the tree And I'm not talking on behalf of the parks commission at this point But I just wanted to give some context to what had happened in there is one of the things I I've had a number of these uh, these appeals come up and It feels like we as a commission are working in a vacuum Where we don't get the history of what's been happening with these trees, you know with heritage trees generally How many appeals have been made how many have Have been successful how many trees have cut down And then we also don't the other piece of the vacuum is we don't have a complete analysis of what it means generally People look at it as the last speaker said that it's easy to say cut down the tree Got no legal representation. It's got no liability. It's cut the darn thing down I would like to see an analysis presented to us that uh as for the public as a whole of what it would cost How it would go about if we focus on how do we save the tree? You know if that if that were our main point of focus And I guess I would recommend that we do a further analysis on this Things on that in particular before this is uh really brought up That is I would say accept the appeal for right now and have send it back for a reasonable analysis It gives us some information which we can make a reasonable choice on um I guess the other thing is that I just wanted to re-emphasize that planting, you know three Cottonwoods or whatever the heck is going to be planted there as in replacing this tree is just not an equivalent replacement at all And again, that's happened, you know time and time again Uh come before the commission and we end up You know, we're basically reducing the size of our trees and we're changing the type of community that we've got to these acceptable trees for the development as opposed to trying to Create for us to having development except the trees Pretty way that I would support the appeal that we do not cut down the tree at this point And that we do further analysis as a group to see what funding is available to see what choices are really available I don't I don't feel we have a reasonable choice at this point Um, it's a it's a between a rock and a hard place um I would like to see that pressure eased and thank you very much for letting me talk Thank you, and thank you for your service on the commission. Good afternoon Goodbye. Thank you Good afternoon. Hi, uh, my name is on a command siney And first I want to acknowledge and thank everybody for being here today and all the people who have Spoken, um, it's really wonderful to see the community come out and do things that are scary um And i'm just here today because I know i'm sure that with the city's help We can find a reasonable way To mitigate the possible damage done by the street. It's been outlined. Um, that there are grants. They are You know other things that are going on with the public works that we could access There's something called go fund me that could help property owners There are people within the community that I think would really be willing to Donate funds and do all they can to save this this big tree um As something that kealan mentioned this particular tree is 80 percent larger than the minimum heritage tree Measurement and I think even if we're just basing this decision solely off of That information I would still expect Determination to find solutions to keep this tree because that's that's a lot bigger than you know the other The minimum, you know heritage tree measurement Something kealan also mentioned was that In the span I think it was 1995 to 2013 4 000 heritage tree permits were approved, which means 4 000 trees were removed Which means about 222 trees each year And I think somebody might have mentioned that the parks department is planning on planting three trees for removing 222 trees, which just Kind of feels a little um contradictory. I just wanted to mention um I know with certainty that the people who live and commute downtown would be shocked and disappointed at the removal of this tree This tree takes up so much space visually And you know emotionally that people are absorbing and enjoying its presence without even realizing they're doing so um The apartment owners who I really appreciate being here Don't live here and they don't see that tree every day and that I walk up that hill like three or four times a day Going to my work and going back to my house And I think Just emotionally. I don't know if they can really understand the extent that this tree takes up in our community um I do have concerns that this appeal is framed as being anti affordable housing because of the understanding that there is this big apartment building And as somebody mentioned previously online The urban forest environmental movement and all environmental movement is cut from the exact same cloth as the affordable housing movement They are not different movements You know studies show that lower income areas have less trees You know, they don't get the benefits of having what those trees provide Which are you know major And those units should be allowed to have the green area that they have We are not trying to remove housing for those people Nor are we attempting to burden the apartment owners with the cost If it came down to something like needing to relocate a few tenants, whether that's for construction Or semi permanently. I am watching those buildings go up downtown and I I have a feeling that it could be possible To maybe make space for for some people in there. I know I'm running out of time The one last thing I really wanted to say is that Likely in the near future when this apartment building is passed on to the next generation, which it will be at some point You know, this building is coming up on 75 years old apartment buildings don't last forever Um, and and this tree would and in 30 years when I see the apartment getting Torn down and that tree will have been taken out for nothing Um, so I'm just here to reiterate the importance of bleeding and change changing the status quo Um, obviously the typical solution would be to remove the tree, but maybe today Is the day to decide to move um move in the different direction So next time you go to polka nip or henry cow Think about what what makes this tree different because it's not different. It's the same. Thank you. Thank you anyone else online We'll go to the next person online. Good afternoon Hello, my name is Dana bagshaw and I did not come here Intending to speak on this at all, but I just want to raise one point. I do certainly 10 towards the applicant and all the arguments um, I think the values of um carbon capture are and love of Of natural nature in our city our urban forest is very very important But what I would like to I hear people say well We've got to take care of the sidewalk and I would just like to think that with alternatives We need to think outside of the box like Why are sidewalks sacred? I too? I'm a walker and I prefer walking in communities where They have some kind of asphalt or ground cover rather than the the concrete which we also know is damaging to the environment And this is just one example of alternatives that could be looked at In and how to approach this situation and in the future Encourage developers and builders to think about the trees And plan for them and build around them So Anyway, thank you very much Well, thank you very much. Good afternoon Hi, um, my name is Izzy. I was born and raised here in Santa Cruz on the west side And this specific tree is just like one of those trees that everybody knows um I was like talking to my mom on the phone yesterday. I was like, oh, yeah, we're trying to see this tree And I'm like it's like on walnut and she's like, oh my god that tree. They're trying to cut down that tree um also somebody who is who was raised here um And I think that if this tree gets cut down it'll really it'll really be missed and really leave us or spot in our community And I really hope that you all do everything you can to try to find a creative solution To save it um and live up to our name as a tree city. Um And I think that there can be a lot done with the sidewalk. Um As keelin mentioned, um a crosswalk in that spot would be awesome Would really increase the walkability of that area and the safety It is a hill people tend to zoom up and down it um And it is yeah, kind of a tricky place to cross And I believe that a crosswalk and expanding the sidewalk making it one of those like extra wide sections of sidewalk Would be a really great added value to the community To the students at Santa Cruz High who walk up and down that hill all day every day Um, and then just one more thing I wanted to add about this building I yeah, I hope that this building can be retrofitted and fixed But from what I'm seeing the damage is like very minor. Um, I have an engineering degree And I do a lot of like construction projects. It's been a lot of time looking at foundations um, and Let's be honest like all of our houses in Santa Cruz have cracks in the foundation. We have a really high Water table. We have a lot of really underbuilt foundations Um cracks are like everywhere. It happens It doesn't mean that this that the units in this apartment are like close to becoming unlivable It's just one of those things that happens And this tree is growing really slowly It's not about to burst through the walls and I believe we can find Uh a way to retrofit the building to also continue to provide housing. Thank you Thank you very much to have someone else online Good to see you sir. Come on Good afternoon Thank you as well My name is Ian Johnson. I've was born in Santa Cruz and I've lived here my entire life I'm now a property owner in Boulder Creek In an area that was ravaged by the CZU wildfire I think that we can all agree that the recent loss of untainted forest and Santa Cruz and really california in general Is uh truly shocking Um now more than ever. I believe that as we continue to lose our precious trees We must fight to protect all that still stand Uh the risks to these majestic giants have really been piling up Um, I think that we need to consider every tree a precious part of the community I've seen countless redwoods and other native species Decimated by logging forest fire careless removal Evening Santa Cruz county Multiple times a year PG&E hired contractors come to our property and tell us that they must remove healthy trees just because of their proximity to the power lines These are above ground power lines that were rebuilt after the fire and Instead of being put underground. We continue to prioritize them over the the native trees I grew up under the notion that Santa Cruz was a little bit different than other counties I believed that we were one of the few towns that protected our ecosystem and prioritized our native trees Uh, but as I've grown older, I'm not really sure if that's true anymore outside of our state parks and conservation areas Um, well, it's a great start that we have those but it still leaves thousands of trees at risk Uh, I mean if we simply cut down any tree near a building road or power line We really won't have many left in the heart of our city at least not of that size and significance As mentioned earlier, there's a host of reasons why this is no one's best interest to cut the tree down It's simply the easiest path to solve a short-term and short-sighted issue I truly hope that we can change the system before it's too late as these trees are irreplaceable at least in our lifetime Uh, also in terms of accessibility I think there are definitely solutions to widening the sidewalk putting rumble strips on the side to help guide Those who are visually impaired It's not just a one or the other solution Thank you. Thank you, sir Good afternoon My name is Emily Love and I have something that I've written that I'm going to read as well Um, I want to address the city council members and ask that you imagine a future In which this redwood tree has been cut down If this healthy giant is reduced to a stump, will you feel that you did everything you could to protect our city's natural resources? Will you feel satisfied that all options were considered? If you do vote against the appeal, will you will you not feel regretful that you played a part in the removal of an endangered species? I know that there are many factors at play and this is not an easy decision However, a tree like this will not grow back in our lifetimes Since we have lost so many redwoods in our county in the past few years The removal of a large specimen like this, especially in the heart of our city should be more carefully considered Thanks Well, thank you We have one more person online. Is that correct miss wish? We have two. Okay, so we'll take one of them now Good afternoon person online All right, can you hear me all right Can you hear you just fine? Thank you Great. Hi, my name is Harrison mcdonald. I was born and raised in santa cruz. I grew up right in this neighborhood I went to santa cruz. Hi, so I got to walk every day past this tree twice a day You know, just I have a very strong emotional connection to it um I was an econ major in college and i'm preparing to enter graduate school for a phd in uh economics And there is a real useful Economic valuation tool called contingent valuation that people use to basically Evaluate how much something is worth when it doesn't have like a tangible market price to it. And so a really classic example is people will use it to Value how much a whale is worth to people not necessarily for the market value of its blubber or its oil But the existential value of it to people Can be enormous and can often outstrip the market value of You know something like a whale or a tree, you know the lumber in a tree Just you know based on some There's not a ton of contingent valuations for old gross out there But there are some and the lower ends of what i'm seeing based on you know, there's an article from smithsonia And there's one on a study they did about a redwood in menlo park So, you know of our neighbors The lower end of the valuation we're looking at is at least 50 000 for an old growth redwood or a redwood of this size And so, you know, let's say the sidewalk cost $10,000 to repair today And to 10 years from now we have to spend there $10,000 to repair it that gives us five decades of this tree sticking around while we Before it even starts to reach a point where the willingness to pay and the willingness to accept it at the same level By that time the tree could be worth more for people because it's grown and maybe the cost to repair the sidewalk has become less Or some other solutions have been found so From an economic standpoint making this tree cutting down this tree does not make any sense right now So if a lot of you are driven by the numbers, I think It'll be useful for you to Consider that in making your decision Beyond all of the other great points raised here. So that's all I wanted to say Uh, thank you everyone for a great meeting and um, I appreciate everyone who spoke and uh, Ricardo is of what side of the decision you're on. Thank you Well, thank you very much for your for your comments and testimony. Good afternoon again Good afternoon, my name is Becky Steinbruner Like miss lc I also reported this tree um, the the sidewalk to the city Never dreaming that this would be the solution to fixing a very dangerous sidewalk Council member browner want to thank you for your your very poignant question What is the use of having a heritage tree ordinance when we never protect them anyway? Here's your chance to do something different The sidewalk can be fixed and it can be fixed in different ways other than using concrete There are places that have used ADA compliant wooden bridges to span Greeks certainly why couldn't they be used to span Redwood tree roots that are uplifting This can be easily cheaply remedied as if the roots continue to expand We could also put handrails on that to help guide those who cannot see Where not to go I sent your commission an email yesterday with several solutions One of which is to use epoxy injection into the cracks of the foundation of the building I request that your your council Not take any action at all today on this and to request that A uh, there is a local company bay cities waterproofing and restoration That does in fact do this work and they are in fact doing it at the santa cruz beach boardwalk Let's have them come in and give an evaluation of what it would cost If it's a practical solution to remedy this the cracks and the foundation I'd like to also thank um miss greensight for pointing out as I noticed also in the report that the Cracks are in the brick veneer The brick veneer can be removed and then we can see what is going actually on with the foundation um I never dreamed that I would be asking for a tree like this to be removed And if you cut it down it will not die They're called some provirants for a reason. We've seen that now in the cesium fire I've seen it on my neighborhood on redwood drive coincidentally That when people cut them down they come right back with a vengeance so With a determination to live So simply cutting it down is not going to solve the problem It will remove a wonderful tree that you have heard many people Love appreciate It will remove shade In an urban area that drastically needs it It will remove a tree that is taking up tremendous amounts of carbon dioxide The studies I sent you in the Information show that the older trees are much better At absorbing and storing co2 What I see as replacement trees are on the list because They're easy to maintain. They're not native They're easy to maintain and there's no way that you can make an argument that they would be as efficient And absorb as much carbon dioxide they are as mr. Friends and said horticultural species They're not our native trees So with that, please delay any decision on this until an epoxy injection can be looked at Please look at what it would cost to put a wooden bridge over the sidewalk And please fix the stupid drain channels on Lincoln street that cause Miss Elsie such terror and many others who are sight impaired. Thank you Another person online miss bush. We'll take the person online. Good afternoon Good afternoon three two One good afternoon. Hello We'll hear you in a minute. Come on forward. Come on. Let's go Hi Thank you so much for hearing us My name is Oakley. You said I work as an ecological gardener um, I Just wanted to reiterate what keelan said about The long-term damages even if the tree is removed That will cost money um, I just wanted to say that I Personally just doing the work that I do have seen the damages of removing trees much smaller than this one um When the roots do inevitably rot even within a couple of years Um, and how much that affects concrete around them So I just wanted to say that Whether we take the easy solution or not we are going to face Quite a lot of financial burdens And I also wanted to say that As an ecological gardener I do all I can to plant lots of native plants and trees to mitigate problems like water going under buildings and sidewalks are just I'm working right now on a project in boulder creek where because of the amount of changes that have happened because of the fires Water is flowing in ways that we're not used to because trees aren't sucking up that water And the fact that we have this old redwood In the spot that has multiple springs near it Like I just want to say that It's it's not just the emotional value of the tree it really is Like it really is doing its part to uphold that hillside um, and removing it will cause other issues that We won't really be able to address In In one easy go like it's I just wanted to make that clear that that that is like a real problem From removing the tree Thank you Thank you very much The person who was online Good afternoon Good afternoon. Can you hear me? Yes, certainly. Good afternoon Good afternoon. My name is Deborah St. Che and I live in Santa Cruz I uh wasn't planning to comment that I was very impressed by that applicant's presentation I thought he made some really good points And I I really think we should consider a few things, you know, one is that this tree is healthy. It's not disease And the fact that it's capturing co2 is an important benefit to humans that we should not discount lightly And I agree that we should really study the hillside to understand the impact of cutting down this tree This sounds like this root system is really important It's holding up the hillside. It's absorbing water Um, I think maybe cutting this tree down now without understanding that impact would be short-sighted And I agree that we could mitigate the sidewalk damage But a lot of things people have already suggested Especially if the city can help financially I don't believe it should be totally on the responsibility of the property owner But I do agree that we should slow down and consider the options Before we destroy this beautiful Thank you for your comments anyone else with us in chambers wish me comment anyone else online miss bush Mr. Franson this be your opportunity to take up to five minutes in terms of rebuttal or conclusions you'd like to present to us Thank you everyone to Thank you to everyone who spoke you guys all said amazing things. I'm very proud of all of you Um One thing that I really wanted to mention earlier that slipped my mind was um, you know in the in the write-up By arborist it mentions a root pruning and how that's like not feasible because it's too close to the apartment But nowhere in it doesn't mention apartment pruning And I do think that the loss of a small part of one unit in a 19 unit building Um really is uh, you know, um negligible compared to the loss of this giant tree and um As you know, if the building needs to be amended or you know rebuilt This corner in a different way that you know, that's a big deal Um, but it's something that will probably have to be done for the future of this building anyway um I also wanted to mention I think just about every existing giant redwood tree downtown Santa Cruz is in the proximity to a building that eventually It's going to get up close to it. They grow huge. They don't really stop and um I just want to say like if if they're all going to be um a threat to buildings and might as well get rid of them Now it's cheaper. You know if we're if we're trying to uh, you know cut costs Let's get rid of all of them. Um, I think these giant trees in downtown are Um, you know worth it. We all know that and we all like them. They're all beautiful um So in conclusion We urge you to consider the broader implications of moving this tree. It is not just about one tree It's about our neighborhood our environment our economy and our commitment to a sustainable future But it's come together to find that the alternate solution that allows us to protect this special natural asset Together we can make a difference for today and the many many generations that come Thank you Thank you very much Mr. Beck, uh, this is going to be uh, uh your opportunity to uh respond to points raised by the appellant if uh, those are in order I would just offer a couple points of clarification regarding the volume of permits and the outcome of those That question was raised at our parks and recreation commission meeting in august We're preparing an information report on the permits that have been issued in the last year How many were approved? How many were denied? And i'll also say that you know the Permit process is the formal way in which we resolve these issues Often our urban forester will have informal dialogue with people before the actual permit process begins Rather than tell someone to you know spend their money just to be told that they're not going to get to move forward With something so the numbers won't actually tell the whole story And then just to to clarify one of the speakers Mentioned the ratio of one tree being removed or 4 000 trees being removed over time to three being planted Just wanted to make sure we were all clear on the statistics Each individual tree that's removed we ask for three smaller trees or one large tree to be replanted and our Last year we planted 300 over 300 trees as a department and our goal is to plant 3 000 in the next 78 years Thank you, sir matters back before the council council member. Excuse me council member newson i'm going to recognize you I'd like to like to make a motion to Accept the recommended action make your motion What is your motion? I didn't hear you uh to accept the recommended action Okay, there's a motion. Is there a second? I'll second the motion Under discussion mr. Newsom Open on your motion. Thank you, merkely, and I want to um thank all of those who came out today to Talk in support of the appeal And I I really want to thank you for your public engagement Or for being publicly engaged This is not an action or a decision that I take Lightly or or enjoy however The tree is adversely affecting public right of way and a private building And it's also creating a liability issue and the tree is also We've also had two professional arborists who have gone out and looked at the tree and have Come to the conclusion that any possible mitigation effects of pruning the The root system would very negatively affect the health of the tree so It's not an action that I take lightly or enjoy doing but I Support the recommended action And I am glad that there are mitigation effects And mr. Beck has talked about of planting three trees for one tree being removed And I also look forward to working with my colleagues and the staff on bolstering our downtown urban forest and providing more resources to bolster our downtown urban forest and Plant more trees in downtown and in my district as well. Thank you Thank you. Um, so I had intended to make a motion to delay the decision on this and um To ask the staff to um Return with some additional information. Um, since I wasn't able to make that motion I'm gonna make some comments here about why we'll be opposing this motion. Um, first With respect and I and I appreciate the the rationale that council member Newsom you've given And I care about those things too. I'm very concerned about liability and You know potential loss of housing and and many of the things that you've discussed here and and certainly the safety of Of people who are trying to navigate our streets However I am and I'm not going to repeat all the arguments that were made but I want to just share a couple of points I am persuaded And I think as I think we all should be persuaded On the scientific evidence about the potential carbon capture of a large mature tree the replacement mitigation trees I'm not going to even try to do a back of the envelope even though I'm tempted but Not in any of our lifetimes will Those replacement trees come close to the carbon capture Of this mature tree Not even if it's three to one Not even close in our entire lifetimes all of us in this room So, um It's it's not sufficient to me. Um, and I appreciate it. Um, but it's not sufficient to me to warrant Taking this tree down second. I am persuaded by the morphology arguments that have been made here I teach landscape morphology I study it and I understand Uh, what we look at slope and uh, we look at elevation and we look at slope And we think about how water moves underground And I am persuaded based upon what I know of that slope and I was out there yesterday I went all around I you know looked at things Um myself and stood on that. Um, uh at both, you know, both angles both elevations to and and that There will be significant problems Underground if this tree is removed and those and those roots rot And it will be an ongoing battle. It will cost more money over time to try to contend with that So I am persuaded, um for scientific reasons that the cost that if we're really concerned about cost We should not remove this tree Third, I am persuaded that the useful life of the building is mitigates against the concern for about, um Potential structural damage. I do not believe that I have not heard that of anything and I have not read anything here There seem to be different interpretations of it, but I do not see anything suggesting that the structural damage will make this building uninhabitable um in the amount of time that that building has left in its useful life and um, so I think it could just be and we could figure out the street Um the issues and I believe it's in the public interest for us to do that Even if it costs more money. And so my recommendation was going to be um And I am afraid that this is likely to be um, you know, one more, um Efficacious move uh here on on the part of the city Um, I have a little bit of an emotional attachment to the tree, but not really I mean what I have is an understanding that um making the most Seemingly expeditious position a decision in the moment Um, certainly isn't always in the public interest And in this case, I don't believe is in the interest of the property owner because what happens after this Is going to have much more significant Challenges it's going to create those challenges Particularly if we have you know Don't do it before the next El Nino Um, so I um and I believe it's worth the cost Okay, hold on just a second Where we are is we have finished Your testimony and everyone else's testimony. This is no excuse me. This is back before the council I'm not going to recognize you not be not about anything other than No, no, excuse me, excuse me miss brown At the end of my comments I'll I'd love to hear another option because if there's anything we can do to save this tree I want I want to have that conversation Um My my motion was going to be to ask the staff to come back and and to do some additional analysis exploration of alternatives and come back to us with Potential cost. It's not going to be $10,000. It'll be quite a bit more than that But perhaps a budget adjustment I think it's worth it in this case to consider all the options before we make this decision And and that's the motion I would have made Make a substitute motion I'll so okay. I'll make it as a substitute motion Bonnie. Can you put up my motion? I'm going to make a substitute motion I'm not used to getting a second on things like this. It's pretty simple Please state your motion My motion is to accept the appeal Actually, we can just take this out part. We can just not make a decision if you don't want to accept the appeal But my motion was to accept the appeal and deny the parks and rec commissions approval of a tree removal permit application Submitted by sanikers property management to remove one coastal redwood tree at 339 walnut avenue And two to direct staff to conduct additional analysis and explore alternatives to tree removal To return to council with potential mitigation measures a cost estimate for sidewalk repair and possible budget adjustment There is a motion a second. There's a motion and a second under discussion miss brown So well that's that I mean I I tried to keep it simple I think there's a lot of ideas have come up here about conversations that could be had with the property owner with other experts And so I certainly am open to Massaging this or you know filling in but I wanted to just keep it simple To express the intention that we want to find Another way forward And I will just finally say I will start the go fund me When this meeting ends The vice mayor is recognized And you so I have to say when I came into the meeting after seeing the pictures I thought it was a pretty obvious needing to be removed situation but I have to really applaud the appellant and The young people who grew up here And your thoughtfulness of your arguments. They really persuaded me to think differently I also went to Santa Cruz High. I would park right there by the tree I also the thing that I thought when I saw the pictures is like if somebody was on a week in a wheelchair How are they going to navigate that space? I agree that I don't think redwood trees are great street trees and But in this circumstance Given everything that we've heard I feel like it I don't know if denying it right now Would mean there's no opportunity for future removal or is it can we Postbone it and analyze it more because I think there's some other options And I just you know the useful life of most buildings. Sorry. We're not europe is less than I don't know 100 years Maybe sorry, maybe not your house, but many houses around here 100 years And so if the building 75 years old I when the speaker said Like to see the building torn down in 30 years and the tree gone. It just seems like heartbreaking to me And you know just I won't repeat everything that the speaker said, but they really did Persuade me to think differently about this and not just do the ministerial thing that we normally do I'm sorry, johnson. Yeah, thank you Councilmember brown We were maybe like having some telepathy because I had written the same almost the same exact motion So thank you for making that and councilmember newson, I Also understand the points that you brought up. They are real concerns But I do think a pause here is worthwhile I'm not ready to give up on this tree. I would like to spend some more time to See how we can work with the property managers. I don't want it to fall just on excuse me the property owners to address this so I also have real concern about the unintended consequences of removing of the tree I don't know anything about trees. I'm not an arborist. I'm not an engineer But I'm curious to find out what the data and the research shows Um, so I was going to not support the previous motion Obviously, I seconded this and I've been supportive taking a pause doing some more analysis and see what we can do Just to save the tree Address the sidewalk issue prior to I guess that's the other language that I had that's different Is the prioritization of fixing of the sidewalk? I don't know if we could fit that into your So friendly amendment to where would you like to place that? Yeah, I'm looking to see Maybe it's a 1a prioritization of fixing of the sidewalk Agreeable to you the maker of the motion Second while you are the second so I'll take Agreeable to me. Yes. Yes. So and thank you for everyone who came out here and spoke online Your arguments were very compelling. Thank you Let's just hold here for a second while the clerk gets the language that that you want in here Yes Direct staff to prioritize fixing the impacted sidewalk I realized that more needs to go into that and we need to figure out how to do it, right, but So that would be 1a. I think or I don't know where I would Yeah, it could be three Councilmember calentura johnson, if I may clarify just to make sure we have a full understanding of your intent there You're not directing staff to fix the sidewalk at this point in time, correct But to come back with cost estimates and potential Options for doing so. Yeah, I mean there's a lot that's going to happen in this and so the fixing of the sidewalk I would like that to be prior or Looking at how we fix the sidewalk to be prioritized among all of the other pieces. There's a fire hydrant There's a structure. There's all of that But prioritizing the fixing of the sidewalk as we're looking at the budget Is that let's hold for just a second. I'd like where the city manager's going with that by way of clarification Let's make sure the clerk has got that I mean, I threw something that could be a placeholder, but johnson's that is that a does that work? Could I suggest sir directing staff to explore options for prioritizing? Fixing the impact at sidewalk It's kind of restating it to be extra clear. Okay, that works. Okay that work for you Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you, madame clerk miss walkins Okay, yeah, thank you um Well, I mean, I'll just say these decisions are never easy having sat Here and looking at our policy and being in the public's hearing setting and weighing the evidence It it never makes these choices easy and we all love our redwood trees and are attached to them and um also our Presented with evidence, right? I'll wait for Your phone to stop ringing um, I want to thank Everybody who came and spoke I just relate and I also want to acknowledge The individual who's visually impaired who brought this forward. This is not on you This is much more complex and I'm sorry for your experience um, I guess my My question is what additional evidence could be examined? That hasn't already been examined if moving forward with this alternative motion And maybe that's you tony. I don't know who that is That's an interesting question. Um, it occurs to me as the council is discussing potential options for um Fixing the sidewalk that under our code the maintenance of the sidewalk is the responsibility of the jason property owner So that is something that we would be working with the property owner to To obtain Uh, I think you have two issues there. One is the integrity of the building and one is the integrity of the sidewalk And I think both are at play here um I suppose that the direction would entail seeking yet another expert opinion And and I think just thinking back to councilmember brown's comments earlier um Really, it's it's likely to boil down to a question of cost And and what is an acceptable cost to to uh put on the burden of the property owner toward um And I don't know what additional information is out there, but that would be what would have to be explored Okay, I'm not quite finished Okay, I guess my um, so then I appreciate I appreciate that um I am concerned that we will probably receive what we've currently received in terms of the evidence we've been presented Maybe that's not the case and and in which case I'll be pleasantly surprised I think that for me where I struggle with all of these decisions Is how the policy is written how the evidence is presented to us and then the findings are established And if it were just a sidewalk repair, I don't think it would be here before us It's the structural integrity of the building and frankly I have concerns about our liability And I you know, I don't know tony if you you feel comfortable like check um, okay, so uh, thank you to The appellant for being here and thank you to the property owners and for everyone speaking this is um You know, I've only been involved with a few of these heritage tree removal requests And you know in this case, this is a healthy tree and um You know, I I don't think that um, you know, we have to weigh So many factors here, but I don't feel that my decision can be made without complete data And the only data that's been presented is The option for tree removal versus any data on the home and the structure and options there And who knows that might be less expensive than The property owner having to repair the sidewalk and remove the tree I don't know because that data has not been fully Um looked into and and if it has I did ask the question it hasn't been presented And so, you know, my initial thought was to make a motion to delay so that more data could be um Kind of looked at in terms of creative options to it's the tree and the structure I am pro saving those 18 homes the tree doesn't need saving It's the structure that needs saving if if there's you know potential danger to the 18 homes that are there and so The other part of it is whether or not the tree comes or goes The structure in danger or not the sidewalk needs to be repaired and that is the responsibility of the adjacent property And so that does need to be prioritized and if there is um, you know, I know this is Perhaps an issue across the city for many property owners to be Burdened with that I So if there is a fund or grants or options of you know, I encourage city staff to work with the property owners on getting that sidewalk fixed um, regardless of any decision here because it we've already had someone hurt and um, I would It would just be um, really sad to have any more injuries in that regard. So if there's any way That there is any option to support in that heritage tree fund or any of the in lieu Um fee funds that could help if that's needed for the property owners to repair the sidewalk. Let's get that done and um You know, I don't know what the substitute motion. I appreciate it Um, I do feel like I wouldn't be able to support a decision today because the data is not there to To make a decision to remove this tree That's not that can't be the only option and If it is there's no data saying that is the only option So I can't I can't make that decision today. So my question. I guess you know delaying or accepting What puts the liability now on the city? I mean, that's another factor that was brought up by council member Watkins Um, and again, that's then another factor for this body to consider all of a sudden now It's the city's liability if we take any certain action and So that's kind of a hard place to be in um, I am Pro tree pro housing Pro homes for people. So how do we do both and how do we get that data? And some rural expert and there's so many opinions given I have my opinions too, but I need facts and data Um, you know, there were suggestions about maybe this maybe that but those are all nothing's factual data to to say hey, we could do this to the structure and you know to save the tree we could The structure is the big thing for me. The sidewalk has to be replaced Has to be repaired and um, you know the fire hydrant that seemed minor down the line. Yes The tree roots will still continue to grow. It might have to be replaced again Yes, but this is a healthy tree as per the the report. So um How do we how do we get there to make this informed decision with data? Uh Thank you, mayor keely, um I'll kind of echo just the sentiments of my colleague, uh councilmember walkins. I I and I'm very conflicted by this motion. I I would I would like to state this tree I would like to have the tree be there But there are also concerns about its impact on the structural integrity of the building along with the sidewalk that we've focused on but there is The impact that is having on the structural integrity of the building Or we'll eventually have on a structural integrity of the building and the tree does sit on private property So it's it's hard to see if we sit back and And look at more options that could possibly happen You know, will that change the approach possibly maybe not but you know, there's to me There's just concerns with that that's that's taking place with the building Councilmember brown Thank you. I'm trying to remember what my follow. I had a follow-up question from councilmember Watkins And I'm I'm trying to remember I should have written it down um the But since liability has become the talking point, I'll I'll go to that um in terms of the the question of Liability my understanding is if we deny an appeal or we if we support an appeal and and deny the application Then the city takes on liability for injuries In this in that case and that's the concern that if you've got if a permit is applied for to correct the dangerous condition And the city denies the permit then The property owner is not liable for injuries caused by the dangerous condition Otherwise under state law if it's a city sidewalk that exists as a dangerous condition The city may be liable for that And that could be true in either case The city the city's liability There is a liability component the way the city has avoided liability is by having an ordinance that transfers liability for dangerous conditions of city sidewalks caused by the property the adjacent property owners failure to maintain Their sidewalk onto the property owner by the way the obligation to maintain the sidewalk is not just a city requirement It's a requirement of state law as well. So the The local ordinance piece is the transfer of liability and their and the ability for the city to be indemnified for a dangerous condition So I have a little bit of a concern both about potential dangerous condition of the sidewalk and potential damage to the building were The tree to remain in place And cause further damage to the building So that that's not to say that the council can't direct that additional Research be done into potential viability of retaining the tree I would know there are two arborists opinions in your packet. That's that indicate that that is That root pruning or other measures designed to protect the sidewalk and the building are not feasible for this tree The council could ask for additional Research to support that opinion or to refute it. And so that's the direction that I'm hearing This motion is intended to take Actually, I want to be clear about what my intention is here that that there is other Data that could help us weigh this decision getting one more, you know, getting, you know, louis and then davie and you know, every arborist You know under the sun to use the same methodology and look at the same questions we Quite likely will get the same answers. I'm talking about other factors and the potential for alternatives to Removal right that it's not about just asking for another person to do the same study It's about getting additional information about You know the the I guess the the overall picture And I so I have a follow-up question then about liability Because what I'm hearing is that really this this tree removal application came at the best of the city and So the city is really driving has driven it thus far if The tree is removed and then Due to what geomorphologists know is likely to be true There is further damage to the structure. What liability does the city have in that case? If we have directed a tree be removed, it's removed and then a sinkhole forms underneath a building With some cracks in the structure And further damage is done a washout. For example, what liability does the city have? so I guess My response to that councilmember is that I think the sequence of events is that the condition of the sidewalk was brought to the city's attention By the speaker and the city likely in turn brought it to the attention of the property owner Who then applied for a permit for permission to remove the tree? I don't think the city at any point Would deny an application for an encroachment permit to maintain the or repair the sidewalk Which is really the only the city's interest as far as this application is concerned so so back around to that question, um, I believe that The city taking on some liability for this might give us the incentive to actually Find an alternative and do that in a in a timely manner And so i'm going to continue to support this approach Um, we'll see what others have to say. Thanks Councilmember Watkins I don't know if I have much more to add other than that in the agenda report It mentions the evidence that's presented and the standards by kind of best standard for Arbiculture's formula for root permit So I think that I think in terms of the evidence consideration The standard to meet our criteria for our policy Is been as examined right and so for me I think when you look maybe the question at some point is around the policy And how we examine the policy, but the liability the criteria for me is pretty clear So Unfortunately, I don't feel like I can support the motion given those considerations councilmember brunner So, um the For me the evidence in the data Um for alternatives. I feel like the data is all about the tree And there's no there's not it and I don't know if it's emphasized enough in this motion But there's not enough data about the structure And so that to me is is key in this decision before making a decision like this um Yeah For the debate or discussion seen and seen in here May I ask a question? Yes, sir Just to clarifying the intent of the motion on the floor and how that would work procedurally Because I'm hearing two things if the desire is to do further study and Investigate the issue further Then I'm not sure if the first portion of the motion Wants to be in there or if there's a way to reframe that to Delay hearing of it. Let me ask let me ask mr. Ghandari instead of this could it be continued consideration? Of an appeal on whatever and then move through the rest of the motion Because it seems like what the council wants is additional information in order to make this decision Uh continue the hearing and direct staff to return Any objection to that any objection here Any objection? Okay. I just want to make sure it has to language All right, so let's make sure that the clerk has so then bonnie you can just delete the rest of that first paragraph And uh while you're doing that. Let me ask continue to a date certain how much time do you think you might need on this? Uh, we'll have to work with both public works and the property owners so Minimum of 90 days six months maybe more realistic Let's do this let's go 90 days and if you need an extension you can come you can ask for that at the at the Agenda committee. All right, let's you but we'll put a number in there We'll try to manage towards that if not we can we can continue mr. Ghandari is all right work. Yes, that's fine Okay, any objection that So Procedurally here what you have is a motion A substitute motion so the council will be voting on whether to accept the motion If it passes then you can vote on the motion. Yeah Tony during the continuum Portion of the time is that where does that fall in terms of potential liability if it's six months and there could be an instant that occurs That's something we'll have to give some serious thought to given the condition of the sidewalk All debate having ceased we will vote on whether or not to accept the substitute motion clerk will call the roll I Want to members new some no brown I What can't no runner I Calentary Johnson I Face mayor Golder I and Mary Keely Hi We are we've accepted that motion now we will if I understand it procedurally that erases the underlying motion We will now vote on the motion in chief Clerk will call the roll Council member new some I Brown I What can't no runner I Calentary Johnson I vice mayor Golder I and Mary Keely I Motion passes and so ordered. We are on item 12 This is the downtown association parking and business improvement area assessment for fisk a year 2024 We have presentation miss unit And then we and then we oh here We'll make it 30. Okay, you got it. Thank you No, let's go ahead. We got a quorum sitting here. Okay. Okay. Let's take the conversations outside, please Excuse me. Take your conversations outside, please. Please take those outside. Thank you Miss unit. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, mayor and council rebecca unit account development manager I'm here today for the public hearing portion to consider the increase assessment for the downtown association business Improvement district. Um, this is for fiscal year 2024 for the january assessment So this assessment is on business owners This is actually an assessment that's brought forward by the businesses in the downtown area The downtown association is the organization that Administers this assessment. Um, so it's not brought forward by the city. We just administer the collection of it so Their process for this is to review the ballots that we've collected tabulate the votes Foreign against this increased assessment. Um, and so following public comment We will proceed to that counting and come back with the results And determine the next steps for the motion for you today I'll welcome any questions. Thank you questions comments to miss unit Thank you miss unit. We appreciate that what we will do at this time because the city clerk needs to count those ballots And return and tell us what the outcome of the counts counting of those ballots is we will take a 30 minute break at this time Um, confirm we need public comment first public comment first the comment first and we'll break Glad to hear public comment on this item Good afternoon Good afternoon. Hi, my name is Jackie truit and I am the owner of super silver and golden bliss in downtown santa cruz Um, I'm here to oppose the bill of the 15 percent increase I do believe that the downtown needs more money to clean up the downtown So my suggestion is a 10 percent increase And really what I wanted to be here today to say is I want to make sure my money is going to the right places Right now after 6 p.m. We have a complete lack of law enforcement downtown Sorry, I'm shaking. I'm not You're doing great. I'm not good at publicly speaking. Okay. So, um, we have a lack of officers down there We don't have any, um Of the downtown association at 5 30. They're off Businesses are open late restaurants are open late. We need the downtown to be a safe environment I am suggesting that with this money Instead of using it for advertising because that's what's stated in it Is one of the things I want to use the money for In my mind, I said it doesn't matter how much we advertise if the downtown isn't safe people don't want to bring their kids down here I have two children. I moved from the west side to scott's valley Everyone that I know all the moms and all the fathers all the parents. No one wants to bring their kids to downtown So that's what I want to see change I would like to see the business owners money going towards that And protecting our employees and making sure it's safe for them to get to their cars I would like to see a new unit implemented that can deal with the mental health That is downtown and I would like to see those people off of pacific avenue My life was threatened two weeks ago The response by the office officer was unacceptable to me And that is not the type of town I want to be in. I am a local. I was born in dominican hospital I have worked downtown for 27 years And I want to see it cleaned up and I want to see a nicer environment for a community I also would like to see my money go towards helping the parking for the employees It was raised twice this year From 55 to 65 to 75 these employees these college students cannot afford $75 a month when their rent is getting increased and the cost of food has gone up We need to make it reasonable for them to come to work and it's getting harder to hire people So my suggestion is that we reduce that to a $25 monthly fee Instead of the 75 people can pay that that still gives the city a little bit of money to pay for the cards or whatever they need to do But that's what I would like to see I want to see downtown cleaned up and I want to make sure the money is going in the right spot And I do want to mention this which I've never been to these hearings before so maybe this should have been brought up in the beginning We did take on another program over the last couple years, which is the sidewalk vending That program costs our city $264,000 a year And I want to know where they got the money to pay for that Because did that come from our ranger program that we had to stop two years ago? Because that's my concern and then asking a business to then pay for new programs when we already were I just want to make sure our money is going to the right spot. So I'm I'm here and um, Thank you for listening to me. Thank you very much Let me Please others who wish to testify come on up Good afternoon, sir Thank you My name is robert. I'm a native santa cruising I'm a property owner downtown And I am all for improving the downtown area I think that there's Great opportunity for us to do a better job Number one is hygiene and cleanliness if you look at the Gardening of downtown And how we maintain that compared to property owners or A good example is a seaside company if you go down beach street. It's immaculate The plants are maintained the gardens maintained. It's an environment That people want to come and enjoy and santa cruz Is special It always has been but it's deteriorating We are in decay The downtown area is not being properly maintained The safety issues that this lady mentioned But i'm also concerned about um The maintenance of downtown So please take that into consideration In in your approving of this I think that there has to be somebody Responsible for that and there has to be a group of individuals that maintain that And take pride of it and are held accountable for it. Thank you Thank you, sir. Thank you Before we do have anyone online miss motion. Okay anyone else who wishes to testify. Good afternoon Hello council members. Thank you all for your service to our city. I appreciate all of you and what you all do um, I'm here to speak on uh behalf of many of the board members of the downtown association who Propose this levy increase the board is unanimously in favor of this increase And includes many business owners of places you might know like what yosha wellness spot the penny ice creamery santa cruz community credit union farmers insurance pona hawaii and grill minnow arts space camp design build google ecology action Pacific cookie company oswald pipeline We have a great board. I appreciate my volunteer board And they're also elected by the 550 downtown businesses who will be affected by this increase and I really appreciate Jackie showing up to speak on her own behalf But I also wanted to speak for these Business owners and the dozens of business owners who I've heard from who feel like Now is the time it's been 30 years since this assessment structure has changed Um downtown is fortunate that we've seen more businesses now open than closed during the pandemic Um And we're about to see some major growth with thousands of new Residences downtown that are also going to impact All the services that we need to provide so we really appreciate all the council's support for downtown And the ability to allow the businesses to continue to contribute to our community through this assessment. Thank you Thank you anyone else who's with us today Seen hearing none Public comment, we are going to take a break between now and 5 35 in order for the clerk to Complete your work in tabulating The results of the election in the assessment district Will that give you sufficient time? Okay, we'll take a 30 minute break. We will return here at 5 35 Look to miss unit to Announce the results of the tabulations miss unit Thank you So for this assessment to pass for the increase to be approved We have to receive no more than 50 percent No votes and so we only received 4.5 percent no votes So the increase has been approved by the members of the assessment district So I would like to ask that the council move the staff recommendation Stack recommendation includes adoption of a resolution confirming the annual plan and levying the appropriate assessments and adopt ordinance number 2023-11 confirming chapter 5.05 and the minister of code And related actions. Is there a motion in that regard? Motion here second by miss counter johnson the motion miss miss bush was by My miss wattkins motion by wattkins second by to call entire johnson. Is there a debate or discussion on the motion? Seeing hearing none the clerk will call the roll Council member is newson. Hi brown. Hi Watkins. Hi Calentary johnson. Hi Um, I will note council member bruner has still um had recused herself on this item. So she's Not voting vice mayor golder. Hi and mayor akili. Hi motion passes. It's ordered. We're Before we depart. I just want to say The person who testified I don't think you're going to get anybody up here disagreeing with The need to continue to improve safety and other issues downtown I do think What we might also add to that is that we feel like it is trending in the right direction I think we see reductions in homelessness because of some work we've done We've seen reductions some of the property crimes. I think there's some improvement, but you're right We've got to keep doing that trending in the right direction. So thank you for coming and articulating your view We're on item 13 west cliff update including infrastructure transportation regulatory planning road map development miss schmitt I believe Is here On this item, but if not Who shall we hear from do you have an idea anyone wish to present on this item staff level? Good afternoon Good evening, sir Good afternoon mayor council members nathan land director of public works We have our assistant city manager who also will be joining us when she's available So tonight we have an item before you to bring forth the The 50 year vision of the road map We have a powerpoint deck. Thank you before you that today we have our Consultant team fair line strategies will give us an update on this 50 year vision work I will follow up with an update with regards to our infrastructure updates And then we'll close with some next steps miss schmitt Miss schmitt one up I know I know we're all running around it's late in the evening or Leasey afternoon. I know we're all spread around a little bit During the break. So miss schmitt. Thank you very much Good evening Thank you, mayor. My apologies for that. Nathan did the introductions. Thank you so much and We are very excited to give you the latest updates on west cliff and I will hand it over to michael mccormick from far along strategies Thank you Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon mayor council pleasure to be here Or I guess maybe it's almost evening. Good evening. You've had a long day today So we do have an update on west cliff and some of the work that's going to be happening over the next couple of months And then staff is also going to provide a summary of some of the things that are in process As well out on west cliff. So if we go to the next slide We have a busy fall and winter ahead of us We're going to talk a little bit about today the Recap on some of the roadmap work which is you're looking at the prioritizations of projects and policies That apply to west cliff And then we're going to talk a little bit about the interagency collaboration that has Started in response to the council's direction and some recent engagement with federal and state partners Public works will be providing an update as well And then the local coastal program update And then we'll talk a little bit about the 50 year vision as directed by the council staff and the consultant team have been moving forward On developing that vision and ensuring that the public has multiple opportunities to engage Advise and influence that that vision So i'm going to share a little bit more about that plan. So next slide So The roadmap itself this came before you a few months back from years zero to four zero to three time frame Right. These are the very short near-term projects that are largely already in process Um, and we needed to take a look at How they applied in this current context of west cliff and the disasters that occurred in december and january And um, so those came before you for consideration We also are queuing up and starting to prioritize those four-year plus projects and policies as well There's hundreds of policies and projects that apply on west cliff right now And recognizing the importance of having those projects and policies reflect longer term visioning And this kind of real world dynamic that we're living in On the roadmap, uh, you know the narrative around the dynamic coast We're looking at those prioritize projects as well using much the same criteria that we looked at for project zero through three We're collaborating closely with city staff to assess and evaluate these projects They are going to be digging in and rolling up their sleeves with us You know, there is the ideal scenario of hey, these are the best projects and policies We could apply out there in any particular given situation And then there's the real world limitations of how do we actually do that? We have to also be pragmatic so considering costs considering the real world environmental conditions on west cliff Considering the regulatory dynamic that we operate in And you all have heard quite a bit about some of the regulatory Process and protocols that we've had to apply on projects moving forward out on west cliff And so concurrent of the development of those of this 50-year vision that we've been directed to develop We're also looking at these projects and policies because we want to make sure that these hundreds of projects and policies that the city has on the books Are also helping to achieve that longer term vision So what you'll be seeing later this year come before you is a comprehensive look at The portfolio of of projects the portfolio of policies They're currently on the books and lining that up with the vision for five decades in the future Of what west cliff may look like at that point and how the community sees west cliff functioning and operating in 50 years So next slide And in order to do this In order to do the engagement on the roadmap so far we've done four outreach meetings and workshops We've had multiple engagements here with all of you And we had a wonderful and I would say fun and enjoyable work session In a month and a half or so Ago as well on the vision and trying to ground ourselves in What does that 50-year vision look like and and some of your early thoughts and the folks that were in Attendance early thoughts on on that longer term vision and Thinking through some top level Again a newspaper article concepts and themes that we might want to see Or we might say in 50 years whether we want to see them or not so next slide And this the roadmap that was developed has gone out We we've Understand from a number of public folks that have engaged with us through this this review process There's a few hundred downloads that have occurred of the document. So people are reading it They we've received a number of comments on it. So in addition to The update to include the three four-year plus projects beyond the zero to three that we've already prioritized We'll also be factoring in those comments that we've received on this document as well So you'll be seeing that come back before you in the near future So an update on the interagency progress So the council back a couple months ago has Provided direction to staff and the and the consultant team to engage with our state and federal interagency Staff was very much on the same page as this thought process. So back in march coming right after these disasters We recognized a need To help activate that state and federal interagency work So we did a an application to what's called the silver jacket. So if you go to the next slide The silver jackets is an interagency federal and state working group We've talked a little bit about it at other at prior council meetings But we were recently issued unapproval Of supporting approval of that engagement and the focus will be on nature based solutions It'll be starting in january formally across the state and federal agency We're still scoping out what that engagement looks like But it'll basically stand up a A multiple agency task force to help us talk through some of the challenging things to come Out of this vision. So once we've established the vision that comes before you later this year and in january You'll also be Having this great state and federal interagency working group who i've worked with in the past They can be really valuable if they have a focus work plan that they're working through and the end result will be Helping us Us as the city the royal us Answer some some of the questions about how the federal and state interagency can engage with the city On accomplishing some of the the larger goals and the longer term goals that will be outlined in that vision It's next I'm going to hand it over to nathan now to give a little bit of an update on What's happening out on west cliff Evening mayor council members new thing my director public works We just have one slide for you tonight with regards to our public works update And so with regards to the efforts on the infill walls We have gotten to contract with grant construction based on our last Meeting with you a meeting with council and doing a budget adjustment Right now we are reviewing the submittals The temporary traffic control plan has been approved, but we are reviewing a shoring plan that they've submitted So we are Waiting to get that approved before they actually can go out and perform the work We hope to have that approved sometime this week maybe early next week So you'll will be seeing those granite crutches out there very soon We installed some additional Temporary traffic control measures. We're going to be looking at closing Clark avenue as a part of this temporary traffic control plan and adding speed humps on pelton So we'll be directing traffic onto columbia and pelton as they do the work in front of the 900 block of west cliff And then one other big news item to announce is the bethany curve culvert We've been awarded or approved. I should say Emergency funding from fhwa. It's 10.5 million dollars with the local match and we expect to start that project in spring of next year Thank you With that i'll pass it on to lee butler planning director Good evening mr. Butler Thank you mayor and good evening council members I have one slide as well So our local coastal program was last updated and approved by the city council in 1992 So there have been a lot of things that have changed since then We are looking to update our local coastal program right now To reflect the updated land use maps that we have as well as to Acknowledge the changes in sea level rise and climate change that we all know are happening before us We've been coordinating with the community and the coastal commission for the last several years and We have half of our draft policy Sections into the coastal commission right now or by the end of this week We'll have half of them to the coastal commission for an informal review The other half of those policy sections we're anticipating having to them in october or maybe in november um The policy chapters along with the land use plan are the most significant portions of the local coastal program update But there are other portions that go along with that who are working on the introduction section and community setting and figures and maps and so forth When will the council see those the the council will first see the beaches bluffs and hazards and adaptation chapter That chapter we are front-loading we sent that to the coastal commission back in late july, I believe it was and we're hoping to get comments from them Have that out for public comment and then Get in front of the planning commission and city council either late this year or early next year The remainder of the lcp update will be Presenting to the council Later in 2024 likely in the summertime and that will partially depend on That coordination with the coastal commission as well as with the community, but those are the target dates at this point That's my update and i'll pass it back over to michael Great. Thank you And so when when you also think about the the other work efforts in process And you're thinking about the timing of the local coastal plan of the local hazard mitigation plan Staff is coordinating behind the scenes with us on the consultant team to make sure that these documents talk to each other And this is something that is not always easy for local governments to do as you all know Lots of plans get developed on different timelines and we've been we've were joking recently that this is somewhat of an alignment of stars Because there are so many documents being updated concurrently We do have an opportunity particularly out on west cliff to create an aligning vision That is embedded or at least influences a number of these other work streams So I just note that that's happening behind the scenes. So you'll continue to see that consistency As documents come before you over the next six months plus So, uh, some of you weren't able to attend the august 15th council session But I hopefully those that were able to participate Founded entertaining and exciting but also enlightening about This 50 year time horizon is a very long time from now if we think about 1973 And what people were thinking about in 2023. It was probably a little bit different than how we actually landed Right computers cell phones how we get around Etc. And so we we had an exercise where we We actually tried to get in that headspace of what is 50 years in the future. And so we had public members Contribute newsletter newspaper article headlines ideas and the council members that were presented as well And so we had a I used my best news reading voice to to highlight some of these But just some great examples of Of where the alignment occurs across how people think about the future is, you know Santa Cruz is a leader on community resilience Santa Cruz has dealt with issues proactively Santa Cruz has protected a huge community asset and a resource And so there's those are some of the aligning things that came forward And I'm sure all of you probably heard different things that that were here that Really connected you to that reality of what's in 50 years in the future And so this vision that we're developing is really intended to create an aligning Set of understandings about what what what west cliff looks like in 50 years and and a little bit of how we get there And what are those implementation steps? What are some of the constraints? Obviously, there's the pragmatic state of you know, we don't know what the regulatory environment is in the future We don't know what the environmental conditions are exactly are in the future Although we have really good ideas based on the forecasting and the work of staff and Thinking about the future from a sea level rise dynamic And then we also, you know understand that there's going to be probably innovations in society That take us to a little bit different space and how we use space how we occupy place in space how people interact with each other So just a few notes that these are some of the large and big issues that we're going to be grappling with in this vision next next page So So when we think about the the vision and the roadmap There are two separate things because the vision is really a high level guiding guiding document That is intended to create alignment across multiple different work streams within the city And the roadmap is about taking that high level vision and looking at the projects and the policies that apply on west cliff and and Ensuring that they actually feed towards that longer term vision as we all know There's oftentimes policies on the book or a cip project that's been sitting on the books for 20 years That may not respond to the like the current reality of what you all want to see what the community wants to be to see done So our attempt right now is really to help bring those forward in a in a more productive way that aligns with the longer term vision And the purpose is um, well, I mean, you know, I think I already went over this But like what do we look like in 50 years for as as west cliff? To identify some of the considerations that that go into that vision But also not really limiting ourselves knowing that that 50 years from now could be very different than its current state And that the more pragmatic side of it is the roadmap side Um, the vision is more about a more aspirational side So you'll see that those elements come forward as these come forward to you And as in addition to the to the workshops and the city council meetings We also have another layer of public engagement, which is the west cliff focus group And so the purpose of the focus group is is really to provide recommendations to the city manager And how he will bring that forward into the shared space with feedback We're getting from the public and the workshops in addition to the consultant and staff leadership that are applied to this work And we'll be building these recommendations based on this consortium this collection of recommendations and feedback And and focus that's coming into this work So next steps there's a lot of points on this map because there's a lot of touch points with the public With focus groups with the city council So you'll be seeing a fair amount of us over the next few months. I'm excited about that And we'll also have a number of different touch points with with the public in public workshops And a focused engagement opportunity around west cliff as a recreation resource Um, we'll have uh, and this will be publicly available as well. So You can take a picture for your notes, it's great And so the the objective is to uh, to have a final document in january really to celebrate this vision That applies out on west cliff So there's a lot of work to be done now and then between now and then and we are working with the staff Interagency working group really closely to make sure that we're we're moving forward quickly efficiently but also meaningfully, you know, we want the other side of this to to look To create some some real positive impact for west cliff and for the city santa cruz So I think that's next next step next page. Yeah, so that is it Erica smart is is wonderfully offered her email address is the contact, but obviously happy to answer any questions And have any further discussion you like Thank you. We'll start with questions around the council. Ms. Brunner Who is the west cliff focus group? You know, I knew you'd ask that question and I'm sure gen will quickly pull that up for us so we've we've chosen a group of representative community members that both operate on west cliff and across the city And topical experts that really represent all the different angles that we've been hearing from In the public engagement on west cliff And those folks that have been engaged historically, but also folks that are Folks that we think can add some significant value to the discussions So if you don't mind I can go through the list. Is that okay? So we had and obviously this is this will be publicly available Juliana Denike as a community member Emily can arty is a community member. We have a city staff representative Nathan and Tony city staff as well Hilary Bryant as a nonprofit member Donna Myers as a nonprofit member Ross Clark is a climate scientist and subject matter expert and Scrolling a little further down Uh, I'll be most off of from the environmental justice side Of the equation Darren pound for as a business representative Jonah Chasinski for as a youth member and Ron Goodman from the cycling community Collected together with that are uh, two staff members Laura Schmidt and Tiffany wise west and the consultant team as well that'll be supporting And as well as the leadership of of matt hafaker who Uh, these recommendations will be going forward towards Thank you If I might there will be other questions, uh The the list that you just read um Am I to assume that miss mires is on that list? because she She doesn't live in the community anymore. She lives in carmel valley. So i want to make sure Is she here because of her? Work expertise. What what is the thing there? I think the world of her. I'm just a little not quite sure that I understand why she's on there So donna mires is the has been hired on as active engagements with save west cliff So donna's is a specific representative on one of our active Active coordinating nonprofits in the area And i'll know matt if you had anything else to say on But I think that's right what I would also add is there was a lot of intention of selecting folks that had a variety and a diversity of technical expertise Donna while no longer resides here As michael is mentioning has been providing a significant amount of Consulting support technical expertise to the save west cliff group as well as the visioning process as a whole Yeah, I think in that capacity that makes sense. Thank you on that. Um I uh When you're going through that i'm i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to what you think this uh Focus group Is supposed to reflect is it is your desire to put something together that is Reflected the demography of the city is it because I know i'm not sure I heard At least what appeared to me to be persons with Latino surnames. I'm not sure I heard I don't I don't know ethnicity of everybody in gender and other issues, but What are you trying to what are you trying to replicate here? So what what we're trying to do is add an additional layer of focused engagement with community members that have a particular expertise related to west cliff and bring them forward in a more focused way to Answer some specific questions about what this longer term vision looks like so Topical expertise Geographic expertise community expertise and bring those in in a more layered way It is It's not possible with 11 people to represent the entire cross section of the community that I'd readily admit that but there is an attempt to capture a number of the different positions that that Have been active and can certainly influence that longer term vision. So the issue I have on that is This is a this is a roadway Which can be characterized by some people as A neighborhood thoroughfare Some people an international destination For other people can be this can be defined so many ways, but it does seem if within our Relatively small city We're trying to have that Focus group Have some To be somewhat reflective of the larger community I would suggest that you Did you say there was a student on here? Okay from from where? I'm Santa Cruz high school. Well, if we're putting a Santa Cruz high school student on there I think uh, even if we're not, uh, I don't mean to draw the comparison I I think that's fine to have a Santa Cruz high school student on there. I do wonder about I returned to my previous question and it seems to me that maybe we're missing A couple of demographic pieces that you might want to put in there Because a it's very valuable and b will be criticized at the end of this if we don't do that at the front of this I may just add one other thing and then maybe invite, uh, laura to come up and and share anything else that she may have to share on this but, um When we look at the focus group, it is one piece of this larger Engagement set of engagement activities. We have our state and federal interagency partners that we'll be working with Uh, we have our public workshops that we're working with. We've had the engagement. We've already done We have concurrent engagement happening around the local hazard mitigation plan and the adaptation plan So this is one this is one piece of that but I just I wanted to just add that flavor because it is That doesn't it just so clear with each other. I thank you for that It doesn't respond to my issue and I'm not trying to be argumentative here. It just doesn't respond to my issue I mean, I don't I don't understand how a high school student from Santa Cruz makes it on But 25 20 25 percent of our demographics in here don't make it on that's my issue with you And I think you ought to change it Um, thanks mayor. We can definitely talk with you offline We did reach out to the Santa Cruz equity co lab and that is how we got the environmental justice Recommendation from them. So we have reached out Again, we're going to go through this for a while. I can tell um, and that's okay with me. It's not a problem um equity co lab Is an interest group that is different than inviting and seeking out A demographic from our community that seems to be absent in their list and I'm sorry councilmember. We'll we'll get to other councilmember. Do you have response on that? Um, can you be more specific as to the demographic you're looking for? You don't have a latino or latino on that list Uh, which may both represent a demographic group as well as an income group This seems like a glaring omission we can definitely reach out and address that We we thought that the list that we had had had a good mix of age demographics and different Community just membership as well as special interest groups So we were trying to balance that but we can definitely address your Concern and find another person Let me make sure you don't misunderstand what i'm doing here. I I like what you've put together. I I like it a lot. I think it's quite good I'm trying to add value to it and and fill a hole that appears to be pretty obvious Yes, okay. We can look into that questions or comments miss brown Just following on the mayor's point. I'm uh thinking about UCSC as well UCSC students in particular I'm thinking back to the presentation. We received involving traffic Studies and and where the traffic was coming from and it was like hands down The greatest number of trips were coming from The the university that that part of town so I think that that that sure Suggested to me that UCSC students and the UCSC community has a real interest as well in Being engaged at you know at that higher level not just doing a survey Or showing up at it for a session, but it feels like that's also missing perhaps. Maybe i'm missing something We can add that Let me move around to council see if there are any questions to comment Miss calling sorry johnson. Thank you. Yeah, um, just a couple comments. Thank you for the work and the presentation And your movement on this About the focus group. I mean I I I'm really appreciative of the intent behind it of to gather some minds from the community Help us inform. I want to confirm that that is one way that will help us inform what it looks like So that's not just what the focus group says or does that's going to shape the 50-year plan I want to confirm that Absolutely And then I you know, I also understand the challenges around creating a focus group that's manageable in size But also the need for representation. I think mayor keely and council member brown have brought up some Good specific examples of who may be missing. That's our that are significant voices in our community. So um That's a challenge keeping it to a group that is Visible to get things done, but then also making sure that we have representation. So I would confirm That latina latino voice a student voice and that I do want to comment on the youth The youth member who is on that is our youth liaison that we have as the city That was our commitment with the children youth bill of rights Is to engage our youth liaison and to have our youth liaison engage in these types of community engagement projects that we have so Because those are my comments just you have you have a tough task before you in terms of oh, I had one more actually group Some community members reached out and I believe that no one who lives on west cliff is part of that focus group either So something to consider Since they will be impacted So it's a tough tough task that you have is to keep it keep it to a A doable group, but have it be representative and I'm happy to share more of my thoughts Offline as you're forming this oh and the other thing sorry last thing Um, we don't want to get stuck in the process of forming a focus group for us to move ahead in the work So I'm cognizant of that as well Vice mayor's Did you have a response there? Yes. Thank you very much Thank you council members commentary johnson as far as input and feedback the focus group is only one mechanism for input into the 50-year vision process We will still be hosting multiple community Community based meetings that are open to the entirety of the public Related to the question of residency on west cliff I believe at least two people on the current focus group live Near in that west cliff neighborhood so We can find out we can talk offline because I don't want to talk addresses obviously of our focus group members right now Thank you the vice mayor's record Thank you. Um, I was hoping that madder lora would speak to this before We got to hear but I just wanted to say that I I did get reached out to and I don't know if anybody else did Aside from the two of us about this over the weekend and I think that The concern from people in the community was the lack of transparency in the selection of the focus group And after I spoke with the city manager yesterday He explained to me and I believe his intent to be true that the intent was to expedite the process so that we can continue to meet our deadlines and get moving with the repairs and Not just the repairs but the long-term vision So we're eligible for different grants and things like that. And so I just wanted to appreciate the intent of staff And they were really trying to find a diverse group And I guarantee if you picked 11 people from town someone would have a problem with someone so But I do see the people that are missing and I appreciate the intent to Correct that thank you Mayor if I may just quickly respond to that. I appreciate those comments councilmember golder and in addition to what laura has shared I just want to make crystal clear that This focus group is not it will not be a decision making body They are one of many sounding boards one of many touch points that we'll be moving through over the The course of the next few months and really appreciate the feedback around wanting to ensure that the focus group accurately captures the Great diversity that we have in this community Um to allow for a real robust discussion as we work through these issues Appreciate that feedback and that's certainly achievable. We will work on that And I hope that the community based upon the experience of how we got to the three-year post recovery roadmap And the engagement that they experienced then I think it was very positive Hopefully they will remember that and take that to heart that that is not going to change in the 50-year vision process With this focus group the focus group is an additive sounding board for the our ability to develop information and Constructs quickly to then be digested and and given feedback by the larger community That level of community engagement and transparency We are committed to and we will continue the work that we did in the roadmap into the 50-year vision Thank you. Good work excellent work for the comments council members If I might I'm not quite sure where I want to direct this so I'll just make it and then somebody will come up and talk about it When we Mr. Nguyen and I had a colloquy a couple of weeks ago about this and then he and I were at the Clean ocean business award dinner. Is that what we were at and sat next to each other continued the conversation a little bit And and so now I want to do a little bit in public and return to this item. So that's the predicate on this As we begin moving through this you were indicating how many Public policy documents need to be feathered together on this and how many agencies state federal and local will You know poke their finger into this pie at one point or another Um Last time we did this in public. I I inquired as to what we believe Based on what you know today What you believe the california coastal commission With from a policy perspective Where are they starting on this after years of them Lecturing local governments about managed retreat and so on which seemed to be their quality their policy for quite a long time This isn't that this is not managed retreat at this stage Either the temporary fixes and I haven't heard anything that indicates That what we're saying to the community on the 50 year vision is it's a managed retreat vision But the coastal commission has been there for decades. I'm wondering How we square that circle at the outset here Happy to start and thank you. Thank you mayor for that question. I Don't purport to read the tea leaves too. Well, um, you know I think what we were finding ourselves in right now with the coastal commission particularly in the context of managed retreat and Community relocation the different terms we use for moving infrastructure moving right of way to address Reduce risk is a kind of a regulatory amorphous environment right now because their policies are on the book that says they they really don't want to Support development or ongoing maintenance of structures that have repetitive loss We also see the insurance companies also taking that same stance while at the same time There's questions about the legality of their regulatory authority to be in that space and making those assessments So there's a current discussion taking place on where they're going to land eventually And so there's not actually a real clear answer on what the future holds So when I talk about kind of this regulatory dynamic for the 50 year vision We're also looking at the unknowns of how the courts respond to challenges of how our regulatory system Continues to evolve over time But we do understand that there's social drivers for For making decisions in some communities that are stronger to take one direction or the other And so this 50 year vision is is intended to explore that So there's no predefined kind of assessment on what phased retreat looks like in Santa Cruz But this vision is going to tackle that it is going to be one of those challenging discussions that we have across the community Thank you for that two other questions if I might let me ask a follow-up question on this item With regard to how we are visioning this 50 year picture Where what we're managing towards While we're in that let's say over the next year or so I imagine we're going to be in this for a while You're not going to be back here in six months and we've got something we're doing right I managed this takes us a while But I imagine that the outset We and you must be making certain assumptions about what our partners if you will in the state and federal government Because otherwise what is the purpose of this exercise if we're doing it without reference to what we think They're thinking about this as we move along So once you think about that let me go to the second question. Maybe you can wrap them together You mentioned insurance companies our insurance company is the federal emergency management agency and the federal highway administration That's who we call our insurance company And I would guess like the other insurers Around the coasts of the united states Are running as fast as they can away And the reinsurers are doing the same thing From areas whether it's Hurricanes or floods or whatever it may be They're doing everything they can to reduce their risk when the risk is going up So with regard to our insurer federal emergency management agency and the federal highway administration What assumptions are we making about them going forward as we plan Is presumably we have to do that somewhat hand in glove with our insurer Yeah, absolutely, and I think that it is a Right now the federal interagency is showing Indicates indications that they're not willing to Invest in infrastructure recovery projects that expose that infrastructure to repetitive loss scenarios Meaning multiple disasters when within certain time frames, they really don't want to see funding federal funding flow To those projects and so when we think about Six feet of sea level rise by end of century What is that due to coastal infrastructure? Or a change in the direction of extreme storms? What does that do to coastal infrastructure? How does that affect the coast differently? How does apply certain mitigate applying certain mitigations like nature-based solutions more aggressively On the coast how that might mitigate some of that risk as sea levels rise as Storms change directions. So these are all questions that we don't fully have the answers to for 50 years from now Right, that's a very long time We do have some strong understandings based on the modeling done through the adaptation planning work led by staff over the past You know five plus years That does allow us to kind of understand some of those long-term scenarios better But when we place that into the context of what are the federal Agencies that fund recovery projects and long-term resilience projects. What are they going to do? um, we understand that uh, for example fema as of Mid mid this month will run out of money for their recovery funds. Uh, so Typically they last for the entire year Um Compounded with the federal budget potentially the federal shutdown potentially occurring in october There's a real risk of delays or disconnects on those post-disaster recovery dollars So we don't anticipate seeing any less of that as costs continue to rise on recovery Um more and more of those federal dollars are going to need to flow to local recovery efforts So the question that we have is well, what's that upper limit? You know, is there an upper limit to how much the federal interagency is going to spend to help local governments recover from these disasters? And when do we hit that limit? Is it next year? Is it 10 years? Is it 40 years? And so those are some of the questions that we don't really have answers to And we've certainly been talking about this for 20 years or more um, so I think you know the The scope of the costs have increased so much more in the past couple of years than over the prior decades I think it's really created a focus on that discussion right now. So we're The whole uh, united states is talking about the same thing that we're talking about tonight We see this when we're in and I think our other compound complex planning exercises for example, we're looking at a Major set of activities what we call the downtown expansion plan But as we're doing that we make certain assumptions about the public sector the private sector this that who's doing what Based on what their mission is and so on And and that brings me back then to To my question, which is we can't have no assumptions About our state and federal partners and we surely can't I mean it wouldn't think we would assume Whatever they've done in the past they'll do for going forward. You said as much just about two minutes ago So in that are we Are you or we going to build certain assumption scenarios? Here's one which assumes FEMA isn't going to replace every 10 years when you have a presidentially declared And the storm the nature of what we just had those are going to happen We're going to get more of those and so this isn't a one-off. This is more what life is going to be like Are we going to build assumptions because at some point To pick based on what assumptions we make that clearly engages in the cost shifting as to how to fix the problem I mean if this is all going to be on our dime That that that's a orders of magnitude different conversation than if we think well it may change somewhat But our state and federal partners are going to be partners Yeah, and I would say uh lean more towards the latter. We know that that um We know that that uh the state and federal partners are going to be present We know they're going to be active. We know they're going to be partners Because they always have been the question is how many dollars are attached to that partnership For example our silver jackets work that we'll be doing with the federal internet and state interagency They've received funding to support their own staff time To help support the city's work, but that funding isn't coming to the city That is to support that state and federal interagency. So We could see a different way of the state and federal government coming in to help local communities that is more technical assistance Knowledge building capacity building that is less about funding direct infrastructure and more about funding The capacity for communities to respond themselves And when we think about that the cost of recovery is much more of an equation for local communities that are You know facing repetitive loss issues because if you lose if you lose a certain uh piece of infrastructure Every year for five years. Does it really make sense for? A city or a county or whomever to actually invest in in rebuilding that Or do you want to do it in a different way that is more resilient and can be recovered more cost effectively? So certainly these are some of the assumptions that we're putting into this Um, but we don't have the magic eight ball, right? We we're not going to be able to know exactly what that looks like Um, and some of the scenarios that we can develop can talk broadly about that But I think the beauty of the vision is is we can have that be at a high enough level that links All of these policies and program documents that are being developed in the city So that we aren't tied to any one necessary scenario because it's the community wanting to see What west cliff looks like in the future and there's multiple pathways to get there And so the policy and project prioritization part of the roadmap Is where we're really looking at that kind of those assumptions around Long-term funding options For policies and projects that vision helps to guide that prioritization But that's where the pragmatic piece of of how Work actually gets done falls into the the priorities for policies and projects. Well, I'm sorry that I'm Taking up so much time. I try to keep my comments Limited during our sessions each time Um But it won't slow me down um what I Based on what you just said, let me let me inquire a little further uh the If what we do Is say to the community In a wide variety of ways. Here's a focus group here and here's public meetings here and here's those are all very good I'm not diminishing the value. I think they're incredibly valuable But if there's no sideboards around it On who's going to pay for it? How this is going to be brought into reality? Then you can dream any damn thing you want to dream You know, we can have monorails. We can right. I mean It's got to be a real plan that is constrained by something And so I think the longer we go With the public thinking they can envision any doggone thing they want to Without understanding where the cost implications are going to fall I think we ought to make that real clear at the outset to help people regulate their own appetites on this Yeah, and absolutely, you know, we've uh, I think just to respond to that There is more specificity in the roadmap work But there is a broader set of assumptions around regulatory environmental social conditions that we have to include in the vision Otherwise per your point It's you know is Anything anywhere everywhere all at once um, and uh, and that reality is, you know I bring a level of pragmatism to visions that um that we've helped developed in the past that kind of innately Reflect that there's limitations on what we can do in the real world But also acknowledging that a vision is intended to be built to Push the envelope sometimes and really create a stretch objective for a community to something that that is achievable, but it's really going to be require some work to achieve and um, And I think there's a there's a balance to be had between pragmatism And a bold vision that is unachievable and Having a balance between those two can create some really wonderful things for communities Thank you other other members questions or comments miss brown Thank you. Um, well, I'll just I just want to put a fine point on the coastal commission's role here. I think the the point about Funding these kinds of projects aside from the the regulatory the ability to get approvals Is an important one So thank you for raising that Mayor, but I I also want to just put a fine point on the the coastal commission's role here because As the mayor suggested The coastal commission has had You know in a managed retreat Lens and that has not changed I do spend quite a bit of time now with the coastal commission agenda items and meetings and so I I I hear from the staff and I hear what commissioners have to say and There was a at our the last meeting an armoring item for the east side Which folks might want to look at if you have it want to have a sense of where the coastal commission staff is at they you know, and they found a way to Approve it because in this case there was You know some real potential improvement in public access at that at at sewers at the the surf rake there at rock view and so and and bad argument is obviously going to be in play with respect to westcliffe, but Their their view has not changed and that vote they bear I haven't been able to confirm the vote But I'm pretty I think it's squeaked by so and that was a pretty minor One so I just think that and I I've talked with the city manager about this and I really appreciate hearing You know that the I know that our staff is engaged with coastal staff kind of at every step of the way and and so I want to just make sure that the council also is aware of You know how those conversations are going Where we might need to have a role in the expectations management as we move through this So and and thank you really appreciate the the work. It's it's definitely not easy to bring people together and and try to do something like this that's a major project in the context of some much uncertainty and You know being under resourced. Thank you I Just want to confirm the money most of the money we got was for a lot of money was because it's designated FH from the FHWA or right right now Yeah, the the funding that's we've received for the info walls and bethany curb repairs is from FHWA's emergency opening program And it's eligible for that program because west cliff drive is deemed a federal aid route And so that's why it's still eligible for that funding And I wanted to kind of come up earlier to talk about funding too in addition to the emergency response efforts that we've been Awarded this year in some previous years the roadmap work envisioning process is to allow us to Use this plan to help get additional funding dollars that are more resilient You know, we have an infrastructure bill that was passed that we're still working its way through the state through the different programs including FHWA so It's not just emergency response work that we're going after we're really looking at these bigger dollars Resiliency dollars climate adaptation type of dollars that are out there and there is a lot that's available But we really need to have a vision to help us apply for those and really move those kind of things forward So it's I don't believe a a local thing or just a state. We're also going to be trying to Utilize our local dollars and leverage them for these other grand sources Thank you, and I imagine through the visioning process You'll be looking at ways to explore Possible local funding like our parking district or a toll road or something along those lines where where We could have a continued revenue stream As part of the process, right? That's correct. Okay. Thank you if I could add to that just real quickly vice mayor There's also a number of other exciting Potential opportunities we could explore from a local sustainable funding standpoint that includes things like climate resiliency districts Infrastructure financing districts that both can raise local revenues for major infrastructure projects like we're discussing as part of the vision and We'll be exploring those as part of the roadmap as well Councilmember Watkins and then councilmember Brenner councilmember Watkins. Yeah, I'll be brief as well But I just I you know, I'll thank you for the work and and the ambitious timeline I always take the opportunity when we talk about funding too just to remind folks that you know We've talked about our lobbying efforts, and I think we're going to need to continue doing that as a local community We're not alone in our need and certainly won't be moving forward And so however, we're advocating for more dollars from the state and feds is really critical in terms of our Lobbying initiatives that we have with our partners, but also just to remind folks that you know, we've been part of this lawsuit against oil companies who have knowingly admitted to the impacts they've caused as a result of hiding the Evidence around the carbon emissions associated with oil For many many years and so part of that lawsuit requires that we stay on top of that and know what's going on But also acknowledging that this shouldn't only fall on the backs of our local taxpayers So however, we're factoring that into our visioning in terms of a pragmatic approach but just also acknowledging the truth around where and how we've landed in this space today and Certainly where we need to go Including local resources as well. So anyways, I appreciate the effort I appreciate the presentation the balance of all the different considerations and I look forward to the touchpoints along the way Councilmember Brunner Thank you for those updates on the projects and the infill walls and The three-year post recovery Very interesting Thoughts have come from all of those updates, but thank you also for the website because I I continue to get interested people asking about status and updates and timing and timelines and What is the future and when and so thank you for keeping that Website on the city of santa cruise comm website about west cliff Updated so that we can direct people there. I think it's really important to continue with that and Any opportunity to Even have something like are you like do you need Spanish? You need your information in Spanish click here and then we can get their information and work with them Um, I don't know if that's come up, but I'm always kind of Cognizant of just at least having that option for people to Select that as something they might need um, and then I There was recently a group of folks who reached out and I'm glad to see all those community groups Um that are coming on the next steps Uh graph that was shown on the slide Um, because there are many many people interested in the 50 year vision plan and You know, I think really what our community um is hoping To have simple things like reduced speed on west cliff drive and safe spaces for pedestrians to walk And safe spaces for bicycles to ride Bicycles without sharing and bumping into pedestrians and and cars, right? Like those are simple things that people Are are speaking to and and so as part of all of this It um the traffic study Is that part of that process that is is Still in in the works Yeah, thank you for the question councilmember brunner the Traffic study is not included specifically in the 50 year vision work But some level of traffic analysis or discussion will we have to be included as a part of that 50 year vision? But not specifically like a traffic impact study Is not necessarily scoped at this moment Can you just is I don't know if it's brief, but can you speak to that difference and why We're on that path versus a traffic impact study If for a traffic impact study, we would be looking at volumes and circulation Um at a more detailed and granular level. I think the 50 year vision roadmap work is much more of a Again, it's more of a plan not a project level of implementation. And so Uh, it wouldn't be appropriate to necessarily have a full traffic impact study unless we have a fully defined project So, okay, that makes sense. So having a traffic analysis and vision and then at some point after we have a vision Then it might go to traffic impact study To see if that vision can be Subsequently, we'd likely have Projects that would fall come from the visioning process and then within those projects We would have specific traffic impact studies associated with those projects um Okay, I think you know It's given us a lot of thought with and I appreciate all the updates so that we can build really what we want and budget for the future I think the funding part of it is Um, helpful to hear as well in terms of the regulatory environment. So thanks Um, I also just wanted to let you know in the public know that there's a Translate button on our website and if you click that you can click you can select a language And then the website uses google translation services And you're able to read the content on any web page in the language that you selected It's translated by google though Thank you Thank you so much Other questions or comments at this time this would be the opportunity for anyone who's wish with us Who wishes to make comment on this item? This would be your opportunity to do so miss bush. We come on. Let's go We have anyone online Okay, we're going to toggle back and forth. Good afternoon again or good evening again. Hello. Can you hear me? Yo, we sir. My name is robert and As I told you before i'm a native santa cruisin I've lived on the west side Actually the lower west side of santa cruis all my life In the last 25 years I've had the fortunate opportunity to live on west cliff drive Um, and this focus group Uh, I knew nothing about it until attending this meeting And I think somebody on west cliff drive and on the west side Should be involved in this group Or at least be reached out to whether they're involved on a regular basis Um, I have not received any notifications In the mail or anything other than notifications for iron man or The races etc or west cliff is going to be closed So, um, it would be nice to receive something in the mail So that I could take part in the community. They say the community, but I don't know quote unquote who is the community I thought I was part of the community Okay, um, so I would um Like to be more Involved in this process The other thing you talk about the vision and that's the area I'd like to be most involved in You know repairing the road that needs to be done And however that has to be done it needs to be done But going forward, um I I would think it'd be important to bring people on board that have had the history of living here And being part of the community in 1973 So that they could they could tell you firsthand What they thought the vision would be in 2023 I think that would play a role in looking where we're going to be 50 years from now And west cliff drive not only serves the local community of santa cruz It serves the whole state And like you said, it's an international destination as santa cruz is the boardwalk the downtown And west cliff drive You know a while back I'm kind of rambling a little bit, but a while back I sat On my front porch with my dog And I counted how many cars went by Three o'clock in the afternoon on a friday And 997 vehicles passed in front of my house in one hour That didn't count the bicycles the skateboarders The pedestrians walking the people walking with their strollers with their babies My point is west cliff drive Serves our whole life cycle of our community members and the members that visit our community And we need to we need to include that in the vision Okay, and then the other thing is the one one one more point and then i'll leave The coastal commission Why not make them part of our process? Why not make them part of the Focus group why not invite one of their members? And have them ownership So that they can sell their own people on our vision make them part of it We'll win Thank you We're going to take the next person online then miss greensight. We'll be right back with you Miss bush. We have someone online. Good evening person online Yes, this is garret. Hey Santa Cruz equity cohab so-called environmental rehab Or abby mesdafa are absolutely not experts in west cliff anything as a focus group Isn't she mostly an artist who lived in mostly ultra radical leftist oakland? Hey, who's walking out there? Oh, yeah, of course, it's always You know the same person This is leftist baloney to put it politely leftist excrement would be more precise I'm not interested in malcom x motivated violence is justified or admire malcom x's Put a hand on the muslim brotherhood. I'll put you in the graveyard types involved in totally Unrelated west cliff policy. Are you freaking kidding me? How do you sleep at night? Are you concerned the benefits of reason and logic in your actions? I applaud the mayor at least on this one little point Which seems to be questioning the makeup of this first focus group as not inclusive of well Normal people but this managed retreat as I've said many times is the last ditch no options available Nothing can be done that will have any benefit type action and we're not there yet Any action before that to abandon the private property on the coast is a violation of the city's obligation To protect the people and their property. I lose confidence in the city government every meeting pushing these fair based globalist power grab agendas And the con job focus groups and their surveys Okay, it's way past half the hour and I gotta go to dinner. Bye Thank you, mr. Creed slight. Good evening Mayor council members The mayor asked a good question. What is the purpose of this exercise this 50 year vision exercise? And for many of us It feels or it seems to be a very expensive Very time consuming Consultant heavy Cherry pick focus group that has an agenda And if that feels like a loss of trust, well, that's how it appears because It's no secret that there's a big Voice to have west cliff one way Irrespective of the impact on the lower particularly the lower west side And it seems that there is a vision But there's not a substance there. Um, I personally I agree diversity on any group is important. I think it would be It would be wise to ask all of your People who are picked. I don't know how you pick them. I think there would be better ways to get representation Where do they stand? On turning west cliff drive into a one-way road And if you get 90 percent think that's a great idea Then that's not at all representative of the community As you go forward I haven't heard any inclusion Of two things which I think Should be in this picture and have never been mentioned The late al-mitchell for whom mitchell's cove was named and was a good friend He gave to the city a plan for keeping west cliff two way to traffic Widening the areas so you could better accommodate the other uses and um That was never mentioned the other fact that is never mentioned. I brought this up many times when I was on that Technical advisory committee the city has far a five foot easement along the entire length of west cliff But that doesn't factor in the focus seems to be on turning west cliff drive into one way So I really think that there needs to be a little bit of a pause here. I understand expedite the process as the city manager said in terms of repairs and I really applaud the Public works department for getting the funding and moving ahead But this vision doesn't need to be expedited. I'd say slow it down and do it properly and be more transparent and lastly I'd remind you and I said at the last time but I guess one needs to repeat it Your city engineers said that the section of the west cliff drive that failed Was areas that had not been maintained Since the 90s that the sections that were new with riprap were talking about stood up well Well, we're putting walls and riprap back in so this This sort of narrative that gets put out and I'm I'm just got your words From the consultant that every year if we have to keep doing this is the funding going to be there That's that's sort of a An approach That has an answer that doesn't deal with reality It may not be that it's every year or even every 10 years If we do it right the coastal commissioners supported doing riprap because it was pointed out By your public works director that if we could lose the road So that's going to be done The rest to me is like an agenda That everybody gets to weigh in and many of us are suspicious, especially with this sort of cherry-picked focus group Um, and I like the mayor's statement, which I'll remember In the face of this reality people may have to regulate their appetites. Thank you Anybody else online Good evening, sir Good evening mayor keely council members What I wanted to do tonight is actually thank the city For the decision that was made you may recall that I was here two weeks ago And I stood up and was very concerned along with my neighbors in the pelton clark Columbia triangle that um, there was no traffic calming and as a result of that meeting The city went back and re-evaluated that and came back with the speed humps and the clark avenue Closing and so I just want to say thank you for that for actually listening to us and taking action Second thing I want to voice my concern as well once you do some turn around. Thanks public works director There you go. Okay. Good And matt and claire and the others Um, but second I want to voice my concern about the lack of transparency Uh on the focus the focus group. It it does seem suspicious um, I've worked with focus groups before um when I wasn't retired and and You know, there's a tendency for the focus groups to be Um, I cherry picked group of people that will result that will end up with the result That is wanted by the people who picked the focus group And so there's a lot of concern in the community about the lack of transparency there and the third thing The vision is great, but one of the comments that that nathan made is you know We're not going to actually see rubber hit the road until projects are created So I know I can speak for a lot of my neighbors in the neighborhood as we want to start seeing projects around Widening the bike lanes about addressing e-bike speeding about getting native plants Put in instead of the ice plant. There's lots of tactical things that we don't want to wait five years For us to start talking about that. Let's start some of these projects Now as soon as as soon as west cliffs reopened and we can kind of get things back to normal Let's start some of these projects now Thank you Mr stoner. Good evening Excuse me kim stoner honorable mail got council members staff Um I'm here more to talk you heard me talk two weeks ago. I'm here more to talk about the 50 year long range plan And this is something to ponder and think about because we're not talking about farmland or state parkland Or vacant land where you've got erosion. There's no big deal We're talking about improvements across the street single family residences things like that And if the city fails to maintain west cliff and allows retreat The following situation may arise if a number of west cliff property owners with homes were to lose street access And their public utilities of water and sewer which are all underground The owners could file a lawsuit Why could they because of a diminution of value Legal terminology a diminished value of the property Remedy remedy would be eminent domain, which is the right of the government or jurisdiction to take the private property and convert it to public use Condemnation is a process by which this is exercised What I have mentioned is rooted in the constitution under the fifth amendment However, the fifth amendment requires payment to those landowners of just compensation Something i'm sure the city attorney understands Market value is based on land value improvements location view amenity and most importantly access As an example, I took a small section of west cliff just the two blocks between Columbia and woodrow and woodrow And david way there's 17 homes between columbia and woodrow 17 homes total five have ad user a second unit between Woodrow and and david way. There's nine homes two with ad user second units and two vacant lots My background I spent 25 and a half years in the real estate appraisal business I also spent 40 years in the title business full-time part-time and as a consultant If you do the math on 26 total homes seven with ad use and two vacant lots Let us say the average home on west cliff is 3.5 million on the low end right now With an ad u 5 million and a lot 1 million So taking a round number of 4 million for the 26 homes you're looking at 104 million dollars in today's market Not the future for those particular homes if some of that had to be taken by eminent domain In the future this is weighing the future and not now I also want to mention that the high property taxes these homes generate per year Of which the city does receive some benefit If somewhere lost a condemnation um My interpretation not to repeat whatever what other people have said preserve west cliff maintain it just don't neglect it Thank you. Thank you, mr. Turner former council member robinson welcome back to the chambers Good evening mayor council members. Um I try my best to stay appraised and pay attention to what's happening on the plans for west cliff So I know how much work is being done on all all fronts all fronts um So I have a couple questions for you just because this one did catch me by surprise When I looked at the agenda because I knew two weeks ago You desperately needed to get some things accomplished before you had this visioning one today So I knew okay pay attention to the two weeks from now And we all have busy lives had a lot going on but I when I looked at it I I will I'm gonna out myself right now. I am one of the people that really Got surprised by it was only seven page agenda item. Um the Focus group did surprise to me First of all, I want to also thank the mayor who referred to Uh west cliff as a neighborhood thoroughfare because I often don't hear That area which for the whole lower west side is a main artillery street Artary street. It's been that way for over a hundred years. So at the same time It's a huge community asset. There is no doubt about what it brings to everybody And so this process Just did have this concern like, okay, let me see. Who do I know? I know quite a few of the people on here and I understand this is what's hard for our city manager too Because he is so interested in making this be and you said that at the very beginning It's going to be a really robust process. It's going to you know, be um transparent everything else But now you have this thing that you have to expedite and then that's how I'm hearing this focus group came about Um, so I just do want to caution you in doing that Several of us have been on many many many. Um, either Committees you had to apply for things you had to try to find a way to if you were a Part of the community that would be appropriate on those committees. You usually had to apply. I know that's not happening here Um, last night I went to the west cliff meeting and so I asked Nathan and I felt like I was really bristly because I was like Well, wait a minute here. And so I appreciated his answers I don't get the impression that this is necessarily open to the public meetings Some of them might be So I want to just have the council ask a little bit about that and then in the presentation tonight Find out a little bit more so we can hear more about the silver jacket group because that's just an interesting name But I don't understand it very well And that also that that's part of the nature-based solutions as a lifetime gardener Um, I understand nature-based solutions in my world I want to understand nature-based solutions because that sounds like retreat to me in a lot of ways Which I thought in the documents that came about with the climate action plan piece for west of resilient west cliff I thought I understood that is the plan because my street I live on is the third alternative to a closure of west cliff, which doesn't make a lot of sense It's not a street that makes sense, but there it sits So I'm hoping some of those questions still get asked It's been a long night for you but on behalf of some of us community members I'd like those questions asked and I know you've got a lot on your plate to do with this Um, I want as much as we can those focus groups that were listed between now and october I don't know if that's only this focus group. I'm not aware of other community Meetings because usually those are not as much of two-way streets It's us just maybe putting post-it notes up or we're listening to different groups I will say and I told us to Nathan too. Usually when you have focus groups like this Um, you someone was saying city staff, but it's really administrative Directors of departments typically they wouldn't be one of the focus group members They would absolutely be there be interacting getting information giving information But they're not usually part of the group So I feel like of 11 people to our administrative department heads both, um, Nathan and Tony Which I want them to be there, but I'm not so sure they should be part of the focus group But that's just my opinion. Thank you for your time. Thank you miss Robinson And anyone else online miss bush now right now. Good evening. Welcome Here my name's Elise Kazby environmentalist activist Um, I just want to weigh in on west cliff Uh, a few years back lost track of time. Maybe it was 10. Maybe it was six I went up to ucsc and watched a panel of scientists talk about Cities that are on the coasts around the country on the coast around the country dealing with this kind of problem of west cliff erosion and Trying to shore up those kinds of roads. It doesn't work. You can't shore it up. It's going it's going to keep happening It's millions and millions of dollars. It's not going to work What I really think the united states needs to come to terms with is that the car That is the the vehicle of convenience for us to go drive from our homes to the 7 11 To go 60 miles or 80 miles or 120 miles to work. It's really a failure It's killing the planet and what we need to do is come to terms with this We need to have bold and creative problem solving around the country for transportation work and housing and democracy and so what i'm going to just suggest and I know it's a little um Random at this point, but I really think that from lighthouse field the lighthouse out to Natural bridges should be closed down to traffic It should just be closed. It should be a walking bicycling possibly nature study place It could be a huge tourist Attraction if it were done with bold design and initiative It's one of the most beautiful areas in the world and the beaches are fabulous We're not going to lose people when we come there But they will have to maybe get out of their vehicles Poise their stomachs up put a girdle on and maybe walk that would be helpful Discovering the ability to walk would also be great for the citizens. I need to walk more So I just really wanted to encourage us to really treasure treasure The incredible Jewel the gem that not just scenically but naturally it's so unique. I've traveled this country My father took his camping. He used to love to go to ocean city new jersey where I grew up and say You see all these houses on the beaches? They're all going to be going down the hurricanes are going to be taking them down They're going to be they're not going to be here our house, which is like a mile back. That's still going to be here Okay, this is real out reality. This is reality. What can we do to keep and preserve our most beautiful gorgeous beach area And still deal with cars we can problem solve this we can you know factor it out and problem solve this Thank you very much for listening And I hope that we will be bold and creative and actually really treasure what we have before we lose it. Thank you very much Well, thank you very much anyone else online We're we're good there anyone else with us in chambers Matters back before the council Let me make one point with you folks if I could for just a second I do not associate myself with those comments which assume That either you or this city have some predetermined outcome and that you have cherry picked The focus group. I do not believe that Other other council members matters back before the council. There is no action tonight So if folks want to make any comments, then we'll I'll entertain a No No, there is no motion there. We have no action items tonight at all on this item But if council members wish to make comments I'll entertain those and then we will I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Anybody want to make comments? Well, there we go miss brunner Thank you So two things that I wrote down. Thank you everyone who Had shared their their comp their public comment. So two things I wrote down One I didn't realize and I want to clarify and ask but to me it didn't sound like A one-way vision, but that was brought up as a concern Um that our vision was a one-way plan. Did I miss something? It can someone answer that No, it is not predetermined the one way as far as In the in the 50-year vision that will be a part of the process discussing that idea as we go forward to the 50-year vision Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss that um and the The focus group seems to be The the topic of discussion tonight and that was actually the first question I asked um, what is the west cliff focus group because the first time I heard of it was tonight and so um, I think you know What we're hearing and I think it's important to recognize is people um, there's some concern and Um, people are very engaged and have worked Really hard to stay abreast of all of these updates, so I really want to ask this the city staff and everybody working on this to to Stay as transparent as possible in our processes and our updates and our information And again that website is really helpful. So, you know, if there is a focus group um To you know explain what the focus group is and how it was came to be and what their role is and making it really clear That they're not an advisory body or this is what they will be inputting on And how is that different from the community meeting groups that was Shown on the side in the Timeline for the different community groups and then we also had a question about are the community groups public So I think that's another piece of information To really make clear for everybody council members members of the public which meetings can can I attend if someone's Not me, but um if someone's reading the information does that apply to me? Can I go to that like where do I fit in right? I think it's really important to have just that take a step back and think of it from A member of the public after hearing some of these Comments, and I think that would be really helpful So I assume that all those meetings are open to the public Is that true? The community meetings the community meetings have all been and will continue to be Public meetings, and we will advertise those as much as possible on social media and our website And get those out through the other groups that we're working with related to west cliff and then we had a Member of the public who asked about mail. Is there any way? I know that Postage is expensive, but if they can get Ironman notices You know if they're not on social media or don't know to go to the website Definitely totally agree. Good evening. Yes. Good evening. Erica smart communications manager Um, so we did actually on all the recent mailings that went out for construction We included the links to our website as well as directions for signing up for our newsletter It's really encouraged people to get involved with the process if they haven't heard about what we're doing already So mail mail did go out? Correct. Correct Um, can you explain where? To to just a certain area or you can get back to if you don't know offhand, but Yes, I'm happy to answer that question. Yeah mailers were sent out as a part of the infowall construction project I believe the streets that were mailed out to were with regards to the Uh pilot one-way pilot area. So we were talked about alta, delaware, uh, and columbia Essentially that that that area was the impact area where we have the one-way pilot where the infowalls are being constructed And so those were sent to about I think about 500 addresses in that in that area And so west cliff drive residents didn't get that mail because that person said they lived on west cliff drive I don't believe mailers were sent out for the entire length of west cliff drive. Okay I I don't know what the process is for mail, but I I would I would like to Um ask that, you know, that's considered going forward Yeah, it's I can just say for construction projects typically within 300 feet of the proposed change or where the construction is happening I believe that's what's in our mini code as far as noticing Um, but this is a much larger project when we think about the 50-year visioning. So maybe I'll let Erica jump in on this. Thank you Yeah, we can absolutely consider doing some postcards to continue the outreach to make sure that everyone has Access to the information that we have available on the website and get them Sign up for our newsletter where we are doing those by weekly updates, which include videos as well Great. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Collin sorry Johnson. Thank you Yeah, I would like to just pick up on a couple of the questions that miss robinson brought up during her public comments I think the question that was being asked is are the focus groups open to the public not the community meetings Maybe both so and maybe we don't have the answer to that right now, but um What's the format of the focus groups and are they open to the public? The focus groups were not intended to be open to the public Thank you for clarifying and then the follow-up question is um, are the city staff members Members of the focus group or are they there as city staff? I mean, I know they're there as city staff But is there a distinction there? When we looked up at the makeup of it We had Nathan from public works and tony elliot from parks and rec members of the actual focus group Due to how much content rich information The 50-year vision has in those respective departments The other people like myself and erica and barrel on strategies. We are just support staff tiffani wise west We are support staff helping facilitate The focus group just like we do with the community meetings. We're there to move Information and conversation along but not participate necessarily. Okay. Thank you for clarifying um, and then just a an ask that at our next communication around this if we can spend a little bit of time Further defining nature-based solutions and what that means um, and silver jackets was brought up by one um by miss robins says one group, but there's a number of those groups um I know time is limited, but some way of communicating Who those groups are what they represent? um For the next time we come together Is it all on our website if I could just comment on that really quickly So the scope of work for the work with the silver jackets isn't And the partners that we'll be bringing in for that or isn't fully defined right now So we'll be bringing that back as an information item because that work doesn't formally start until january So there's some more time to to have conversations about those partnerships what they look like and what the definitions are that are tied to that work Excellent. Thank you. That's it you know, I've been at this for more than a minute um, and uh one of the phenomenons that Those of us who serve in local government or in public office At least my experience has been you know, you'll have uh some item We had an item a couple months ago a few months ago Bar on 127 million dollars for our water department to do things with our wastewater system and all kinds of things And I had like no comment thing moves through. It's all good. Then something comes along. It's like $200,000 we'll spend eight hours on it, you know, so I mean there's a phenomenon here and it exemplified itself here We have this massive undertaking and the vast bulk of our time tonight's on a focus group So I think although there's no motions here I think you are getting the sentiment from both the council and the public be very careful How that is constructed who is on it who has access to it? And what value you attribute to that when you bring its results forward? Okay, good for the questions and comments for the business come before the council motion to adjourn to be in order Well, the vice mayor always Ms. Brown because she wants out of here quicker than anybody miss brown who wants to get out of here Second passes non debatable those in favor signify by saying I oppose motion carries so ordered. God. Love you all Thank you for being here