 Good morning everybody. Good morning Pastor, good morning everyone. Good morning, good morning Chai, good morning everyone. Thank you Hope, good to be, good to see you here as well. Welcome to all of you, hope you're having, hope you had a good week and are being blessed day by day. Welcome to all the e-learning students as well for the way that you've been engaging with the classes, way that you've been connecting with us over, over discussions. It's, it's wonderful and very encouraging to see that each of you all are learning just as much as our students are here at the, at the online course. So I hope all of you are doing well and did some form of reading and a recap of what we did last week. I know this is probably a question a lot of people don't want to answer, but any, anybody, anyone would like to pitch in to give a, give us a quick jockdown of what happened last week? Anybody? First of all, we spoke about ABCD, like active events and consequences and then effective approaches and these things that we need to have renewed mind according to what we spoke about that. Right. Yeah. We took an example of that. Yes. So we spoke about, yes, Kennedy said we spoke about EUA. That's what we're going to be doing today. The status in counseling, but before we, we did that, we looked into the frame of reference, how it is important to enter into the internal frame of reference of another individual because, or the counseling, because that's what really helps in empathizing with whatever their situation is. So we looked at what external frames of references are, internal frames of references, and we also looked at a model and saw the ABCDE model, one, something that is very, that can be practically used by all of us. We took a couple of examples. Would anyone like to share an example that they, maybe something through the week that they changed or they worked with? Maybe taking from the ABCDE model itself, anyone who would like to talk about something that the way that model, you use that model, you actually applied that model in the way you are, you've thought of or some area that you're struggling with. Anybody would want to bring up an example. So we looked at that A, the A is usually the event that takes place, right? Whatever is the situation of the activating vent, and that tends to have a belief system that brings about the way that the situation is perceived and understood, brings about a certain belief or a certain thought system. And that thought, the more that the person thinks about the thought, there is a consequent feeling that comes about, right? And usually if they are negative feelings, there tends to be a, there is a certain effect that happens. But that's where we learned about the D, which is disputing that belief by renewing your mind, changing the way you see a situation, you perceive a situation, you change your mind, renew your mind by changing those thoughts and disputing that original belief, and thereby having certain stronger positive effects in the way that you've interpreted that situation, which results in a behavior. Okay. I think, Chhaya, you said you're using this and seeing changes in your son's behavior with you. Okay. The way I suppose what you mean is that the way that you are perceiving your son is changing, you're renewing the way that you see your son. And as a result, you've also seen that his behavior towards you has changed. Okay. Kennedy said avoiding irrelevant responses. Okay. Okay. Would you like to, anyone would like to elaborate on anything? Any other area? Anybody? Because I think the more that you use this in your own life, you'll be able to live this out or help others understand the model. Okay. So maybe I'll give you a very simple example just to add to this. And I think maybe I'd give you an example of a young person or a young teen, right now in India, it's the exam season. And so working with some teens, I do see that there is a lot of anxiety around exams and marks and future and getting the right course and going to be in the right place. So let's look at that example so that it just helps to consolidate the learning once again. So the A is the exams, the upcoming exams. And the B is the way that a young person would probably perceive it. So it's perceived as something that's fearful, something that's intimidating, even beliefs across that exam. I may not do very well. I won't pass or I won't be able to remember what I've studied. And that definitely causes a consequent feeling, which is anxiety, which could lead to the effect will be avoidance or maybe going into an exam hall being extremely tensed and stressed and not being able to relax and engage with the paper. So that's the situation. Now, if you're going to use this model, what we would do is you dispute, help the child to dispute that belief. And question that belief and ask where did those thoughts of fear and anxiety come from about the exam and help them to work in, first of all, understanding what those beliefs, how wrong those beliefs are and renewing those beliefs. So as a child who's well-versed with scripture, I think them to look at scripture to encourage their hearts. The word of God to encourage them said that they have the mind of Christ. Wisdom comes from God and God is Jesus is wisdom. And as a child of God, whatever you ask for, James says, ask for wisdom and it will be given to you. So helping them renew their minds with the right, with the truth and with the right kind of thinking brings about a consequent feeling of hope and a sense of excitement to do something to see the outcome of it. And then you see a consequent behavior of the person or the child being more stronger or more confident in God and confident in what God has vested in him rather than his own strength and goes there to write a paper. So just an example for us to consolidate our learning. And I think in our everyday life to be able to use this, because a lot of things is in our minds, you know, the battle is in the mind. And if we are able to recognize those wrong patterns or those wrong beliefs and come to a place of disputing it or and renewing our minds with the truth, it definitely brings about a better outcome in the way that we respond. So that's where we are. Let's move to our next chapter. And if you remember when we spoke, when we started class last time, we had said that there is a certain structure that is there even in counseling. And we're going to be learning about that kind of a structure. And as a whole, when you're leading a counseling from point A to point B, what is it that we're doing? So where is it that we see that it flows from one end to another? And that's what we are going to be looking at today and the week after. And that's what we call as the stages of counseling. Okay, I'm just for you to follow through. I'm on page 21 in the in the in the note. So you could follow through with that. Additionally, I shall just put the screen. Just just bring up the display of the PPT as well. So we can get there. Okay. All right. So yeah. So before we get into the stages of counseling, something that we've been reviewing and we've been studying in the past few weeks is about this, the task of helping a counseling to build a level of trust with us with the counselor. And one of the ways in doing that is through building of a rapport. Right. And we spoke about that in length, how it is important to build rapport, the attitudes that that a counselor holds of being empathetic of being having unconditional positive regard and being genuine. So all of this brings about an attitude of understanding and acceptance. And this becomes like we said, the trust, it becomes very foundational in that relationship. And without really establishing a place of trust, not much can happen in a counseling session. So the counseling needs to know that this is a person that I can trust. I have a sense of freedom to express. And I have a place of being accepted and not being judged for what I have done. So that's what you're building up in the beginning as well as through these sessions. So remember whatever we are discussing, it does not stay in compartments. They're not watertight compartments. You keep building trust, you keep building rapport. Okay. So the counselor, what they do is you establish this state of trust and rapport building by your acceptance, by your attitude. And another way that it is manifested is through the interest that you show, not just in the problem that the person is telling you, but also in who they are. The interest is not only you're not separating the person from the problem when you are building a rapport. So you do show your interest to the problem, but just as much you show your interest to the person. And how do you do that is by being empathetic, is by reflecting, is by showing that you are in a place of understanding where they are and what they are feeling. Okay. And we've been working through that a lot. And you will see that it comes as a very, very significant skill even as we are going to be progressing. So how does this happen that, how does this trust and rapport work through a counseling session? Of course, through the words that you speak and through the behavior that you show through your nonverbal messages. And this gets built slowly, but yet it continues to get built over time. So it is showing your consistency in the way that you express your understanding and your acceptance through the sessions. And that becomes very key. So when we're looking at establishing rapport and trust, just a few things to keep in mind. I know we have spoke about earlier is the first one is confidentiality. So what we had spoken about when we did the principles in counseling, it's a general rule that we that whatever is shared in the counseling time or during the session is kept in confidence. And this is definitely not shared with anyone else without the permission of the counseling, except of course, we spoke about that in cases of any risk or danger to the life of the counseling or to somebody else. So this is important in establishing rapport and trust. The second thing is to be able to establish a place. So ideally, we suggest that it's done in a place that where there is privacy and not the place where the counseling may be tensed, like for example, when it is home of the counseling, what can happen is there could be other members of the family that creates a sense of discomfort where there may not be complete sharing. A place also where the counseling does feel safe. So it can be in places where there is also a sense of transparency, like for example, in a setting like a ministry setting, there is definitely some sense of transparency, but also being all ensuring that there is privacy, where the counseling does feel safe within the confines of the space. The next one is same sex counseling. Now, when you work in a local church setting, this is a good model to follow that is men counseling, men and women counseling, women. However, this may not completely apply to maybe a professional setup or maybe something that is like for example, in chrysalis counseling, we do see there are women counselors who meet men and it is understood that it is not a casual setting, it is a setting that is professional also, just as much as we do follow the principles of scripture. So same sex counseling is recommended, especially when it is within a local church situation, when there is a lot more of lay counselors that are involved, it is a better model to follow. The other thing that we put up here is being able to recognize certain limitations that as a counselor you may have, is to know that there may be some issues or some cases that you may not really be able to handle and may not have the expertise or the answer to and it may become necessary to refer them to someone with a greater form of experience, once you have been able to take them to a certain point and being truthful and honest actually shows your humility in saying in being able to address that there may be certain limitations that may come in your expertise of working with people and it may be better that they are seen by someone who has a better grip over different areas. The last one is communication. Now communication is very important, not just in counseling but even in an interpersonal relationship and this is important, just go up to the next slide. So this is the carpeness, communication becomes important because as you communicate it helps both parties or those who are involved to grow in their relationship to grow within themselves to have a stronger space of development because when you communicate what you're doing is just not communicating information but there is a lot more that's being communicated. There is a communication of ideas, there's thoughts, there are emotions, there are questions, there are doubts, there are solutions that come by. So that's something that requires an establishing, communication definitely requires an establishing. So communication doesn't only mean to listen or it doesn't only mean to talk but then it is a good mix of listening, responding, giving feedback and it becomes even more enhanced when there are conflicts in it. So for a counselor to be able to connect and build rapport that is one thing that a counselor should be able to build on, to learn how to communicate and also to learn how to identify maybe things that are really not spoken but things that one can observe and to be able to make an inference and bring about articulate and understanding is also what communication is about or even how does one resolve a conflict within themselves that happens usually in communication. So these are some of the things that is important for a counselor that to build these communication skills not only for a counselor but even for other interpersonal skills and the more that we develop our skills on that it helps a lot better to communicate with others. So this is what is required for establishing rapport and trust before we move on to the actual stages of counseling. So as we had mentioned that we spoke about that counseling is a process, it is something that can go on for some point of time and this process requires a structure, it requires a certain framework and why is this necessary? The structure is necessary because one for both the counselor and the counseling to know what comes it's like having a blueprint it's like having a reference point on what happens from one to another. And that's why these stages are there so that there is an understanding for the counselor on how to move forward and for the counselor to also see progress in the way that they are being helped. So broadly when we look at counseling we divide it and now even as I'm saying this you know if you look at other textbooks there may be other different kinds of stages. I've just picked up the most simplest one for us to have a good form of clarity on what is the flow that generally takes place in counseling. And yeah so this is a very simple form and this I guess is enough for us to basically understand what follows one after the other. So in at all there are three stages. The first stages as we had spoken about last time is the stage of exploration. The second stage is the stage of understanding and the third stage is the stage of action where the counseling is initiated and or moved into action. So when we look at the exploration stage and I had bought this example to you earlier if you were to get a new gadget or if you were to get something a new device what you would need to do is go through these stages you know you need to explore it you understand it and then you move into action. So similarly when a counselor and a counselor meet one with another both together are going through these stages of exploration, understanding, action. Now remember that the counseling may not be in a place of understanding and that's why they have also come to you is because they know there is a problem but they cannot figure out what's been the source what's been the issue and often when when counselors come with a problem it's usually externally focused the the source is usually externally focused. They look at somebody else being the problem or something else being the problem rather than having explored whether there is any form of a contribution on their end of how this problem continues to be sustained. So what you're doing is along with the counseling is the first one is the exploration is the first phase of it and what you do is encouraging the counseling to explore whatever they're going through the difficulties that they're going through okay so that they are able to come to the next stage. So you explore enough you help them to review the situation remember when we are reviewing the situation or the problem we don't just explore only the event we are going further into what this means this event means for the person how they feel about the event what are they thinking about the event what have they done about the event and where they are so exploration doesn't only mean finding out what is wrong okay like for example if a couple comes to you you're not just exploring doesn't just mean that you're finding out when are they married for how long have they been having a trouble what has been the source of their issue you know and how are how are the two of them dealing with it that's not just the only thing there is a lot more underneath it what are they feeling about the present circumstance that they are in how are they feeling about each other what do they think about this marriage what do they what kind of strategies have they already tried that hasn't helped what has those strategies meant to one another so that is when we are looking at exploration there is so much that you need to keep doing now even as I'm we placed it as one two three remember this it doesn't mean okay once we finished exploration we take it and say okay now we get into understanding maybe as you're exploring one part of it for example you're exploring the home life of a certain person okay he's maybe this person's come to you with a problem with with at his home you're exploring the home life you've kind of got an understanding of it and you're moving into action and that's when another problem has tend to crop up maybe something has happened at his work and you may need to do that exploration of the of the work life as you may be going and working through the understanding of the home life right so these aren't watertight compartments you could be going up and down this ladder multiple number of times till you know you come to a place of knowing that holistically the person has been helped okay so stage one is the review of the situation and what and the other peripheral and not the better the more deeper things of it not just the peripheral things which which which brings about the feelings which brings about the thoughts the beliefs the values the strategies and that's what that's where you come to that's stage one stage two is understanding now what is understanding this is a place where you are helping the counselling to identify what is it that they need what is it that they want so that they can work out their problems effectively okay so it is moving from one place to another this place is not is been dysfunctional so you're they want to move from a dysfunctional place into a functional place so that is developing probably a new or a preferred scenario which means understanding they say okay this is what I have been doing wrong or this is what I have been thinking now I want to move away from that into into something better okay so it becomes like like like a informed decision that that first strategy doesn't work it's not helping I need to look at maybe strategy two to figure out how I can work through my situation and the third place third phase stage is the is the action phase and this is where the counselling brings about methods or ways or strategies to deal with their problems so this may be certain practical strategy practical activities that the person does to give about the outcome that they were looking for in stage two okay so they so the the action phase is the more doing phase the phase where there is a lot of activity happening there is there is motion happening stage one and stage stage one is exploring you're finding out stage two is coming to a place of decision that these are certain places that you want to work and stage three is moving towards towards that that phase okay is there any question before I move on from from this any questions yes Samir thank you pastor first I was wondering if there is where does commitment come like is it is it a given that the counsellor and the counselling are committed to this structure right from stage one or even before stage one or somewhere in the stages there is there is a place where once we've understood the scenario or once we've decided what action needs to be taken then we commit to that okay so when you use the term commitment I think I'd probably use a different term it's willingness maybe in the fact that someone's come to you with a problem and so assessing their willingness to assessing their willingness to work through a situation okay so you would assess that to to find out how much they they hear on their own accord that's one I think that's the very first thing are they there on their own accord or are they being by by maybe a family member or somebody else okay so to understand that because that determines whether they want an outcome a committed outcome okay so that's the first thing I will take questions once I'm once I finish right so that that becomes one the second thing is to help establish from the counsellor themselves as to what they feel should be should be a change in scenario that they're looking at or the goals that they want to work at or the way that I sometimes put it is what are your best hopes for our session forward or what are you hoping will become an outcome for you by the end of our sessions so what I'm what we're doing here is getting them involved in the thinking process of where is it that I want to go from where I am okay and why that becomes necessary is is if if that is not established during the exploring phase what happens is it becomes the duty of the counsellor to bring about change in the counselling and that that is not what counselling is about okay because the counsellor is the one who takes ownership of the problem and knee and along with the council counsellor helps to see an outcome that that could work better all right so willingness is one and secondly is building certain goals what is it that this person is looking at okay so there may be sometimes people are just there and I've had many people just come say you know I just want to share what I'm going through I I I'm not really looking for a solution as to what to do and that's what we think that people come to come for counselling only to find a solution no they just come because they don't have people to talk to so they just want a place to just unburden to share to talk and be able to explore and while they are doing that they are also exploring okay so these are the two things that you will look for in the in the first in in exploration one is their willingness secondly is what do they see as their needed goals to work through now in your in your conversation with them there could be other goals that that you can bring up you can make suggestions you know like for example the person may say you know I don't want to do anything about it I just want to talk about it but then the counsellor can come up with the suggestion saying you know it appears that this part of your life has seems dysfunctional and you feel that this is the contributing factor is that something that you really want to look in and work with so you are suggesting a goal and saying you know this is a place maybe that requires your attention and your thought so thereby what you're doing is helping them to explore and come to a place of willingness or commitment towards the towards working that forward samil I hope I answered your question yes pastor just a little small follow-up so but if if say you know like you mentioned the goal like as probably as a as a counsellor with experience you know or even with yeah with experience with with the training um what makes sense is you know if there's a problem um there should be a working towards resolving that problem you know and and and that's that's uh that's ultimately that's what we are trying to do uh you know as a counsellor with the counsellor you know help the counsellor resolve that problem but as you mentioned if the counsellor is saying like you know it's it's it's just a problem that I have and probably I'm not looking for a resolution I just want to share um I'm seeing that you know that I I saw how does a counsellor like hold back like you know that's that this is the way the counsellor should go and and you're suggesting you're recommending but at the same time you don't want to force it thereby you becoming the person accountable to solve that problem rather than the counsellor being that but at the same time you know like so so if a counsellor just wants to share so you just share and then you suggest a goal the counsellor doesn't want that goal how do you end that like what would be the next step in case the goal is not defined let's say the willingness is there to come meet you and share but the outcome the desired outcome maybe the the counsellor doesn't want that outcome for some reason right yeah so so what over here we're looking at there is no readiness for change they are still what we call as a pre contemplative stage of wanting to change okay and yeah so what you're doing is what you would do or you would take a step forward and process that very situation once again with them you know like saying okay this is that dysfunctional place let's look at how this is affecting you right now how this you know how this is being maintained and how this code how this is helping you so you do that exercise with the client with the with the counsellor where you're where you're teasing out the reality of this or your recommendation you're actually teasing it out for them so that they have an informed picture that they know okay this is something that that I need to do but then I'm making a choice not to do it like for example you know a cancer patient goes and says I know I have cancer and the doctor says you know this is what will happen if you don't do your your treatment and you know it gives you all the all the pros and cons of it and it is given to the patient to make that decision so similarly you would give it back to the client to the counsellor to make that decision okay and permit that because it's it's remember it's free will it's choice that that they decide what they want to do however you do and how I would end that is you know I respect your decision and if at any point of time you feel that this needs to be looked into later and needs to move from just an understanding to a point of action I'm always available to help you into the next step and that's how you would you would close a contact like that yeah it makes sense thank you so I think few few things that I'm taking away is there there definitely could take a lot of time to move between stage one stage two and stage three and sometimes and sometimes stage two itself could just be the resolution where you know we just get an understanding of the situation we know what action but the counsellor decides like the person not ready to move into an action and just would want some more time to move into the stage of action yeah yeah actually you know there is there is another just to quickly bring about an understanding that is when you're looking at change there are stages of change also okay so I said I was talking to you about the you know there is a pre contemplative stage that they're thinking okay is it is it something that I should do they're still you know exploring maybe they're not even aware that they have a problem okay or they don't even intend to take an action or they are uninformed about the consequences of that behavior okay so they're in that pre contemplative stage the second stage is the contemplative stage where they they they are becoming aware all right and they are also looking at ways of you know hearing out other other options and and what could be the issues behind so that's the contemplative stage the third stage is called the stage of preparation where they are coming to a place of preparing saying okay I've got to move from here the fourth stage is action and the fifth stage is maintenance where you are getting them to work on maintaining the the course of action that they have taken so that's that in itself is is you know another theory where there is that stages of change pre contemplative contemplative preparation action and maintenance okay so you may have people coming to you in any of these stages right not that all of them come to you at a action stage and say okay we are willing to go no you you may have people in very very different places and and and working with them through that is is what counseling is all about okay all right Shrikumal and somebody else also I think had lifted their hands up Mr. you almost you know cleared my doubts while you are discussing with him thank you thanks a lot okay okay anybody else I think Kennedy had put up a hand or somebody else I thought I saw one more all right okay all right so then then let's let's move ahead and go on with with the stage so we're going to be looking at stage one today and we're just going to be looking at exploration at the next two stages we will take over next week okay now exploration the stage of exploration this has been I have broadly classified this under two headings okay one is assessment and the second is problem identification now even as I you know as I put it up in the slide like this remember this again doesn't flow like a flow chart okay when we are talking about exploration or an assessment an assessment has many many purposes to it the first and foremost is you are getting to know the person as a whole not just the problem in itself okay you are identifying other areas of the person's life now even though there are there are 10 points on this okay it doesn't mean that for every counseling that you see you may need to go through each of this okay but this is just a basic basic areas you know those foundational areas that may be good to understand so even though I've said an assessment it's not like you're saying you know you're sitting there as an interview and asking about how many people are there in your family you know how much of income do you earn you know what what kind of occupation do you have where did you study it doesn't it's not it's not that straight ahead it is weaved into the entire conversation as you keep going so some things that so maybe I'll give you certain examples of how I I certainly I function and I do it it could be very different of how other people do it but when I first meet a counseling I to make them comfortable I talk about a few basic things and there itself I've caught up some of my information maybe I say you know where do you live so I kind of understand you know what part of the country or what part of the city that they live in who do you live with so then there itself I figure out whether they're married or whether they're single whether they have children I kind of explore it what their age is where they're working so some of those basic things I start with and I also given like a like a small introduction about myself about where I stay or what I do and what my background is so that there is that sense of a beginning you know they're pleasantries you'd call them pleasantries so some kind of a welcome behavior that you would do in order to just calm the situation down so you wouldn't start with oh okay why have you come here may I what is it that you want to talk to me about okay because that that seems very very abrupt and very curt but to be able to weave some of these areas into your conversation okay so again now even though I've put in 10 areas over here you will also be judicious to look at how you know depending on what the person is come with or the problem that they've come with you will explore some of these areas now for example the person is coming and telling you about their and has only this one issue is you know they they have issues with their finances and they don't they don't have a good relationship with money they cannot manage their finances very well right they are they are too either to miserly or you know they're they're spendthrift and they want help for that so they've come to you of that now even as you you may look at things like their family background or their social emotional background or their you know what about their occupation academic yes those are things that you will look in maybe you won't look into their sexual activity there okay because you know it it may stand out you know like a like a black sheep there because unless of course in your conversation over there is some reference that is made then maybe you will take a little bit of time in looking at that so these 10 areas what I generally always usually focus on again weaved into the entire conversation is definitely a family background looking at you know where they come from what what has been their family of origin how many members have been in the family what's been the the the general the strength of the family is that a joint family is it a nuclear family so these these have a have a lot of bearing on on the individual okay so family background is something I definitely do check social and emotional background is is something that again I I you know may not come in as a first off but then again like it gets weaved into the to the entire conversation maybe a social setting like let's say they're talking about maybe let's say it's a married couple that's coming to you and they're talking about certain cultural things that happen at their home so I want to know what kind of a culture they are from so maybe in that conversation I'll say may I understand you know which part of India you are from or which part of the world I mean generally India you know and and you kind of pick up okay there is this person who represents this culture this represents this culture and then I may ask them about you know what how have how were things for y'all as y'all were children you know growing up what kind of difficulties did you face or what was your father working as and there I'm able to understand the context the social context that they're coming from okay an emotional background again is something that that I do always explore into because how for one how have they been able to handle difficult difficult events or situations in the past what has been there coping earlier right so if they're coming here with with a with a significant struggle and they they are having an emotional breakdown this is something I want to know how have they coped with in the past what have been events that have bought them to a similar position like that how did they get out of that you know how have they dealt with their emotions that's something that again I will look at current family social relationship again really depends on if they are talking about something to do with a with a major relationship that's something that I will look at also if there are again this becomes important you know if there is an individual a young person sorry a single person coming to you and talking about a struggle you want to know if there is a network of support system that they have if they have a good you know system that they can back on you know what have been their relationship with families or with friends or with colleagues or with the church I need to understand that so that I can tap into it to help the person build those resources okay occupation and academic background like I said that is something that comes in a kind of naturally finances is something I may not really look into spiritual life is something I look into but there again it comes in it varies on on the conversation so so usually when it comes to that places that place of understanding those crucial needs those need to be loved need to be secure and need to be significant at that point of time I will probably explore I generally explore that I'll say you know what is what is your understanding of spirituality now now again remember when it when it's a believer or if it is a non-believer it is done a little differently right so we may not ask a non-believer without you really knowing what their background is you know what is your idea of God so the general question that I ask is what is your thoughts of spirituality where do you assess your spiritual health okay what kind of system do you system of belief do you hold on to so there you get an understanding as to where they are okay sexual activity is something I explore only if if there is a need like let's say if with regard to a marriage or with regard to someone who's having specific addictions or you know that there are maybe certain mental health issues like depression or anxiety I will look at what kind of sexual activity they are in or if there are multiple issues within relationships they have multiple they have struggles with relationships that's this that time it becomes an area that I will look into okay or recreation and leisure again something on on the way physical health that becomes important if let's say a person is coming to you and saying you know I have severe headache I the only symptom that I have is severe headache and I've gone to many doctors and all of them have said there is nothing physically wrong with me I have I need to come you know they've asked me to go meet with a with a counselor right but you will explore that physical health what have they who have they gone to what are the tests that they have done what have been certain certain physical issues that they've had just to have an understanding whether if if you're not missing out anything remember in our lesson on human needs we spoke it looking at an individual as a whole right so so we're not just not just interested in that which is which is at the core but we're also looking at physical issues and physical health like for example this person may not be sleeping at all okay and he's got a headache so you need to address that physical part of it you know young woman young man you need to sleep you you definitely require that eight hours of sleep if not you are definitely going to come up with the headache or a sense of fatigue right so that is important to generally have a check on if depending on what kind of a manifestation or a symptom that they are coming with and of course a routine responsibilities okay so this be careful when when you are doing this that you know it shouldn't become like a pick it said okay I've figured all this out okay now I will get into the problem like I said it has to be generally we've been and it will come I think the more that you you know get into conversations it it will you will find that kind of a structure coming about okay all right oops I went way ahead of time all right shall be close for a 10 minute break and we shall come back and then I'll take questions and we can go from there so on my clock it's 10 53 and let's be back by 11 3 right thank you