 Perfect. Okay. My name is Alicia Walker, and I'm calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I am calling the August 5th, 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 5.34 p.m. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time, they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Deborah Ferrera. Present. Russ Fernan Jones. Here. Pat Anonabaku. Yeah. I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we'll listen to your comments carefully. We will then hear comments from members who have something to report to the group and we will get right into the agenda as follows. First, a discussion on community policing guided by the questions submitted by Russ Fernan Jones. Second, resident oversight board in regards to membership stipend and consultants. Third, the standing committee. Fourth, subgroup check ins and fifth crest implementation follow up. First order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any member of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Miss moisten to turn on your microphone. I asked that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments, but we will be listening carefully. I don't think I see any hands. Am I missing anybody miss moisten. So at this time, I would like to move to the members report section of the agenda. If there's anybody who would like to update us on any work they're doing or events that are coming up. Does anyone have anything that they would like to share. Okay, I would just like to share in regards to the League of Women Voters racial justice task force meeting. I think most of us were able to attend. For those who were not able to attend for the entire event. Marcy had reached out to Brianna and I to see if there was possibility in creating a generic letter template that folks could send in support of the CSWG. So we wanted to bring that back to the group because we just were unsure. That's something we're interested in at this time and if or how we would like to go about that. So we don't have to necessarily talk about that right now, but I just wanted to share that with you all. And then the so we can move right into the first part of the agenda I think tonight is the discussions on questions submitted by Mr. Vernon Jones in regards to community policing. I guess Mr. Vernon Jones. I would like to propose that we give this agenda item a different title. And my suggestion would be community police relations and and ending over policing. And that we then table it until we have an opportunity to identify some recommendations we might have in those areas. We had the discussion last week we pretty much agreed that we wanted to get away from the term community policing altogether. But that we might have some recommendations. And that some parts of it might have to be referred to the resident oversight board. But if we could retitle this and then table it. And that would be my recommendation. Okay, thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones miss moist it miss moist and then miss Pat sorry. And you just please repeat the new title for me. Well what I recommended was community dash police relations. And ending over policing. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, miss Pat. I just wanted to ask you a question. This is the same question I wanted to ask because I didn't get the title. Okay, great. So is everyone okay. First with the name change recommendation as to the subject title. Yes. Okay. Great. And then I just had a question for clarification. Mr. Vernon Jones. I guess to just revisit answers to these three questions specifically and maybe come back when we have. More formulated recommend recommendations in regards to these. No, I actually don't think the questions are relevant anymore. But I think the whole topic is still one that we want to be thinking about and we will have some recommendations. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Pat. I'm kind of moving away a little bit during the. Section of member report. I wanted Brianna to come in. Because we met with a resident yesterday. And I thought that meeting was extremely productive. And I would like Brianna to start and I will add. To the conversation. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I wasn't sure if we were going to do it then or during the traffic control. But me and Ms. Pat were able to meet with a community member who is just interested in what we are doing on traffic control. She actually sent up follow up notes from our meeting. And she brought up a lot of really good points. She sent over a paper called the Stanford open policing project, which I will forward to the group. She found this as a really good resource to learn more about recorded vehicle stops and policies. She herself is interested on the data table that's on the APD website that gives information on vehicle stops. She said she was very specific in the notes that she wrote. I can forward this to the group now. She was really interested in driver rights and she's wondering if the CSWG would be interested in exploring what policies and procedures exist for police officers telling drivers their rights to be stopped, right to be treated respectfully, right to be told the reason why the vehicle was stopped. Another really, really important point that I thought she brought up was now that the marijuana laws have changed in mass, how it's important, she thought it would be important to include what amount of marijuana individuals are now allowed to have in their possession and how much time and energy is the APD putting on those types of stops. And the last thing that she mentioned was transparency and it's what initiated the conversation. She's interested in the data that we've received in regards to traffic stop and she's wondering if LEAP could help us with some of this data for the second part of our charge. In our conversation, she also referred us to a community member who may be able to help us with some research. This community member is a law professor and has students who may be interested in helping the working group. Thank you. You captured it very, very well. So it's consistent with the note that I took yesterday. I thought that our meeting was extremely productive and that resources out there for us that we can tap into and in terms of the traffic control, definitely, I think it would be a great idea for us to consider reaching out to a professional who has a legal background. I mean, we have, you know, the advantage also of having Deborah on our team that, you know, just have extended. But it's really good that we have community members who, you know, really want to help our group with our projects. So it was an exciting meeting. It was one hour, but, you know, she really raised a lot of questions for, for us with the traffic control. And we also talked about the surveillance camera. Right. Yeah, we talked about camera and, you know, locations where the traffic control, and, you know, locations where it could be and so on and so forth. It was a very good meeting. Thank you, Miss Pat and Brianna. Sorry. Mr. Vernon Jones, Deborah, and then Brianna. Is the name of this community member confidential? No, no, no, no. And who's the community member and who's the lawyer? We're not going to share the lawyer yet because we have not been able to approach her. That's the only reason. The community member actually is, it's a retired professor, Miss Mata. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Is that helpful? She has attended our, she's listening into our meetings and be very supportive. If it's also helpful, I can just forward the group, the feedback that she sent me as a follow up because I know that was a lot of information all at once. Yeah. So perhaps in our next meeting, I mean, it's more thinking and put it as part of the package or something. It's not, yeah, it's not confidential. Yeah. Thank you, Miss Pat and Brianna. Deborah. forgetting that valuable information, you know, obviously you all know I'm interested to and some recommendations around traffic stops and obviously police not being involved in them and moving violations and all of those things. So yeah, whatever information you all can send our way and that was one of my questions. Do we have like a date when we're going to be discussing traffic violations? I'm still reading up on it so it's not like I'm ready to have that discussion myself because I'm still I know there's a lot of articles and I had asked Brianna to send me some links so I'm still kind of going through some of those but I think that would be good just to kind of have like a date when we can discuss it and you know and share some ideas or I know that you all had started the document also maybe just we shared that document and then you know for me I could obviously add to that too you know when we have a date that we're going to be discussing it and then I do have a comment about community policing but let's finish up this discussion I guess and then come back to me for that. Okay thank you Ms. Ferreira. I miss Pat. So I mean I like to make like lists and deadlines and move on. I like to work in bits and bits you know like that you know that's where my brain works. My thinking is that we spend you know a lot of time on oversight board and I thank you know Mr. Ross for that. I'm hoping that we'll be able to submit something this summer to the town manager so that he can start recruiting the board and I'm also hoping that we'll be able to wrap up the traffic um control or whatever hopefully also the end of the summer and I know it might feel like very tight but we're going to have a week off I'm hoping that we will use that time to you know catch up on readings and everything because once we were in September we only have one month left and at some point we need to figure out what do we need to tackle next and then what do we need to hand over to oversight board to complete because since the town manager is not really telling us whether or not you know he wants us to get a you know consultant it looks like we're on our own so we need to figure out basically what we can accomplish between now and end of October. So that does my suggestion. Thank you Ms. Pat and just because I'm not sure if this would fall somewhere else on the agenda I'm looking now there is a space for Crest implementation follow-up but Brianna and I also were able to meet with Mr. Buckleman and so we didn't we were able to just talk with him through the questions we didn't necessarily get answers in our meeting but he did send an email just a little while ago. Um I don't know if there's any way Ms. Moison that you might be able to pull it up on the screen because I think this email is going to be very helpful so I think Mr. Buckleman is is um reconsidering the consultants and so he sent us information saying today just specifically in regards to the consultants I've discussed the needs of the working group with the finance director and feel we can work with the IFB 5 document and the working group to put together a request for quotes identify funds and make it happen. Um I am assuming this would be in the $10,000 range does that seem about right to you the question is whether you whether you think the consultants will be over $10,000 or under $10,000 we can do some research on this but welcome your thoughts as well. Can you see it? Yes very tiny but um very tiny yeah if I may look that was better uh yes Ms. Pat at this point you know from for what I gathered it looks like what is realistic for us is to accept the under $10,000 even if it's two different projects that we need consultants to do for us or something like that because if we go over $10,000 it might not you know the process of advertising it and everything might not happen by end of October. Thank you Ms. Pat Ms. Ferrera and then Ms. Owen. Yeah I was thinking that if if we did stay within the $10,000 realm um I thought we were looking more at a researcher or something just hiring someone so we wouldn't have to go through the IFB right so that's what we're doing um so for me that that would work so that we can get someone in as quickly as possible and they could you know start doing some research and looking at some of this information that we need for for some of these areas I think that would be that would be good. Thank you Ms. Ferrera Ms. Owen. I forgot what I was going to say I'm sorry. No no no worries and then I just just to follow up to Ms. Ferrera's statement. So the the process in which Mr. Bachman I believe is suggesting here is that we go through the the quote process which I think is oh sorry just because he said working group to put together a request for quotes and identify funds to make it happen so I know that might not necessarily be the process that we talked about but in this email that's what Mr. Bachman is suggesting and I believe that that's also just us choosing three people to ask to give us quotes and we so we would be able to pick who we would want to work with three different people and ask for quotes and then I believe the process begins like that. Ms. Pat. I'm just worried about time I kind of like Mr. Ross's suggestions several months ago about the concept of researcher if it's at all possible because time is of the essence we really need to you know get folks going yeah to get this going. Thank you Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well I'm in agreement that in order to expedite this you know I think it's okay that we assume something just under 10,000 so that the quote process can be used but I think we you know if we feel strongly that we want a BIPOC person or group to do this the only way you get that with the quote process is you only ask BIPOC folks for quotes which is perfectly legitimate you know the quote process you can choose who you ask as long as they're reasonable people I mean you know logical ones to ask but I'm not sure we have an agreement with the town manager about what kind of people we would request quotes from. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Pat. The way I'm thinking I think we should just go with seven gender studies to work for us and if they need expertise and studying of the topics that we want them to research they can you know draw the person for example the the law professor is a BIPOC person you know if they think they need you know her services maybe they can collaborate it's an example they can subcontract or something as researcher. Thank you Ms. Pat. Ms. Ferreira. Yeah I mean yeah again time is of the essence I guess my thing would be that Alicia and Breonna since you all are the ones in touch with Mr. Barkman it would be to just kind of get back to him and to say okay you know you know I'm fine with seven gen two and of course we have to figure out if everyone's on the same page about seven gents since they already know us they already did the first part but really what we'd have to do is just tighten because we've done a lot of work already too though since we did that that IFB document maybe tighten what it is that we need for these remaining months and then like like Ms. Pat said you know they can obviously pull from other people but it really is going to have to be a tight end kind of scope of work so that they're able to stay within the funding limits and also you know in terms of what it is we need and we're going to have to be very specific in terms of what it is we need for these remaining months but yeah I think we should just kind of go with okay yes let's go with you know if we can as opposed to getting three quotes I don't know about all that but I would rather just go with a entity work with them and then go from there but so you know so my thing would be follow-up with Ms. Wacom and to see if that would be an option thank you Ms. for Ms. Pat I'm also in addition to just you know the the timing in an ideal world you know we would do the you know explore you know quotes however as we can see you know fatigue is already setting in you know we don't have all our members every week you know that's a sign you know I'm worried about burnout about you know stress and we have other lives you know beside this and I know we're doing besides this to our community but I always tell people self-care first and this is one of the ways to do that I appreciate the suggestion about you know contacting by folks for quotes um I mean that's fine too but again that means then we have to have a subcommittee to interview people to deliberate who to pick you know who you know you know come close to the budget or the you know it's just like at this point I'm in the mode of like let's get done work as much as we can with the help and wrap this up yeah before we lose everybody thank you Ms. Pat Mr. Vernon Jones I just looked back at my notes from our meeting with um Anthony and if we stay under 10,000 we can just the town can just contract with someone they don't have to go through the quote process or the IFB or RFP process but it would require our coming to some agreement with the town manager about hiring someone satisfactory to us sounds good to me and so I also just want to add Brianna and I have a meeting a follow-up meeting scheduled tomorrow with Mr. Balkuman so we can bring all of these things to him tomorrow I just want to be clear in what exactly you would like us to relate to him that we're interested in pursuing one specific um entity to do this under contract through contract of under ten thousand dollars yes and we don't even know if they're going to accept or not we're not no yeah right so do you want us to hold off on on suggesting a specific group and just say that we want to go through that process or do you want us to also gauge his um his interest in um Seven Gen working us working with Seven Gen again I think we should suggest Seven Gen when you guys meet with him tomorrow Mr. Vernon Jones this is a delicate thing to talk about in a public meeting but some people have suggested to me that town council did not have a lot of confidence in Seven Gen and I don't know whether that matters uh since whoever this is we're going to take their work and put it into our report I think we're not as much I don't think we're as much looking for a report from the consultant to the public report we're looking more for I think for them backing us um but I don't know whether others know more about that or um how we might explore that thank you Mr. Vernon Jones Ms. Ferrara yeah I guess for me Mr. Vernon Jones I think that's that's the thing that I wouldn't want to hear and I don't I don't have that information I know you pose that question I don't have that information but that's that's what I would want to hear more about because for me I was I was satisfied with their work I thought they did a very good job they provided the data we needed and they did what we needed them to do um so I wouldn't have an issue with continuing forward with um Sevens Gen so I don't know you know what the um you know the rumors are or what's the concrete information behind it because I'd like to love to hear it if there was some thank you Ms. for Ms. Pat you know I'm known for speaking my mind um my observation when Seven Gen presented at the town council I could tell that some of the town councilors not everybody I don't want to accuse everybody from the questions they asked from their non-bubble um facial reactions and the way I read it is an example of white supremacy secondly perhaps some of Seven Gen's recommendation made it uncomfortable for them I'm not speaking for Seven Gen or for anybody but as a black woman it wouldn't matter if it's not Seven Gen if it's another group that is made up of white folk folks white people some white people will not accept um their their their project I know uh that was um I heard that um something about um the research um process you know people feeling that that wasn't enough um resident being involved interviewed but people forgot that we're in pandemic and it was difficult and it was a difficult topic to discuss some people were traumatized some people were you know had to get additional help because they were made to recount and some of the town councilor didn't appreciate it because it doesn't impact them I could care less what they think I'm sorry to say that we elected them into the office and um they serve us and um so I don't have any problem with the with the work they did I'm under the circumstance thank you miss Pat miss Ferreira and then miss Owen yeah and I'm in agreement uh with miss Pat too because as miss Pat was was talking I was thinking more about it and that was something too that I now you know kind of um thinking back on it I do remember just kind of like always the questions about oh why don't you have more data why don't you present more information when it was wait a minute the data is there the information is there however because the information was something that you know the town councilors and and others felt very uncomfortable with then I think it's something that's not easily digestible you know and then therefore you're uncomfortable with it and then you don't know what to do with it but for me the data and the information they presented were very clear and they actually did an extraordinary amount of work given not only because we're in a pandemic but the fact that we gave them no time I mean there was no time and then again this would be the situation that they'd be under again but they proved that they could do a lot with a short amount of time you know so that's why for me I'm kind of like I don't I don't like to work off of conjecture you know or just rumors like that my thing is where are the facts I know the facts in terms of what they did and that they did a very good job I don't know the facts in terms of they didn't do a very good job or that you know you know besides making people feel nervous because they were presenting things that yes is reality and are going to make people feel uncomfortable and it's dealing with people's you know reality that you know like you know people of color and BIPOC people who we feel uncomfortable every day you know and that's our realities and we have to live with that you know um so so for me again unless you know someone brings forward some some some real hard facts here evidence facts saying that they didn't do a good job or they did something that you know wasn't okay I don't have any issues with moving forward with seven gen especially since we already have a relationship with them for me they did a very good job and you know we need to move forward with time being the essence. Thank you Ms. Ferrara, Ms. Owen and then Ms. Pat. For me I thought what the disconnect was and I could be wrong but I thought this was discussed like probably like a month or a couple months ago was um having consultants that had a legal background so that we could look into um mutual aid police contracts union contracts and policies and procedures so I I think I think seven gen did an excellent job for the first part of our charge but what I'm worried about is if um the town manager is going to find that their experience aligns with what we're asking in the second IFB that we have. Thank you. I thought that that was the concern. Thank you Ms. Owen. Ms. Pat and then Mr. Vernon Jones if you still um had your hand up. I just want to add one more point um first of all I want to thank Mr. Ross for raising this because um I'm glad that you actually did it you know so that we have opportunity to discuss it in public. So another issue was I could tell that um some of the counselors were uncomfortable with the amount that was paid to them but they didn't have any problem paying similar amount to a consultant that will help with business recovery of businesses downtown which is actually benefiting the uh home um land owners and you know commercial building owners the DID and they didn't have any problem approving more than hundred thousand dollars to fix the front of the um town hall they didn't have any problem to approve some money for dog park should I go on and so the society is used to shipping bipolar folks like we don't deserve you know our skills and talents that's where that is coming from too we have to beg for the second part of the project I want people to just think about this for the second imagine our group are mostly white people our tasks the the the help we're asking for will cost more than 200k or even more than 100k and in terms of legal aspects of the work we're looking for and I can speak for seven gen I will hope that they can sort of contract our people with legal expertise at you know they started the work and I like them to complete it if we if if this group were mostly white people town counselors will not be will not be having any concerns because I've never had them have any concerns about other consultants and researchers in town that have done some work for them I just have to put it out there thank you miss pat um mr vernan jones and then miss elin and miss frayer yeah I do want to be clear I had no problem with the uh research methodology the findings or the boldness of the recommendations from seven gen I that's that's not my issue um I think the question of whether legal expertise um whether we get more mileage if we paid for it directly then if we had seven gen contracting it is worth at least thinking about um and I don't I don't want us just to keep the um those with a white supremacist mentality happy that's that's not I think that that can never be our goal we've got to make the best recommendations we can get the best information and make the best recommendations we can for the BIPOC community and Amherst thank you mr vernan jones um miss elin and then miss ferrera yeah I think um just another thing too like I think no matter what consultants we have the town council is going to feel some type of way about our recommendations and they're going to feel uncomfortable and I think the way they treated seven seven gen was just an example of that I think seven gen did a great job um and I think that was just one way of them trying to dismiss our recommendations and I think going forward that could be an issue with any consultants we hire thank you miss elin miss ferrera and then miss pat yeah and I think you know I I want to separate the two issues well mr vernan jones brought up and then well miss uh oh and brought up because well mr vernan jones brought up is that you know some town councilors were not comfortable with you know some of what they did or what they presented that's a whole that kind of goes to what miss pat was talking about which is white supremacy and they're not feeling comfortable and not really wanting to deal with what the data and what the facts spoke about right that's a whole different issue then what what you're bringing up miss elin which is okay well do they have the expertise for the second part of the charge in specific to what it is that we need them to do that's a whole different ballgame right that's not that's why for me I don't want us to conflate the two I want us to be very clear that you know for me anyway I want to be very clear that I shoot down whatever it was that the town councilors will bring it up because you know I don't agree with that you know unless again you know some some facts some hard facts will be brought up about that now in terms of seventh gen being able to do what it is that we need my my recommendation on my suggestion would be let's ask them you know if we're okay with it if we're okay with the work that they've done if we've been happy with the work that they've done they already have a relationship with us they've done a very good work for part a and now we need them for part b and we need consultants quickly what we need to do is kind of you know figure out the scope again share with them and let them say whether they can do it or they can't if they can't do it then yes we move on to the next and and I think what we want to do is keep thinking right obviously another researcher to have another agency um as a as a backup or even maybe one or two as backups right but I don't think it would be a bad thing to just approach them let them say that they can't do it you know as opposed to what's ruling them out thank you miss for miss pat so I mean I raised seven gen I didn't discuss anything with anybody I just felt that logically with you know seven times that's you know the right thing to do and we cannot shy away from you know criticism it doesn't matter you know not everybody is going to be happy with our recommendation some people will like it some people will not like it even if we get you know legal um researcher you know with legal background some people may still not be happy with the recommendation it doesn't really matter we just have to you know uh do the right thing as a group is the way I say it rather than you know trying to worry about is the account I could care less we elected them into that office it's not always guaranteed I could care less about what they think thank you miss pat miss Owen um is the group okay with me and Alicia reaching out to seven gen so we can get the ball rolling on this or should we refine um the IFB five document before we approach them I think um I don't know I think we would have to I think it would be important as for our group to revisit the IFB five even if it's just very quickly so we can see if there's anything we can take out of it because also just to keep in mind that we're going to be asking them that if they're um willing and able to also be doing this for under ten thousand dollars so I think to refine it to exactly what we need and nothing more would be very helpful um mr. Vernon Jones and then miss Ferrara I'd be very comfortable with our co-chairs proceeding in whatever way you think is advisable I think before we spend a lot of time on something it would be worth finding out where we stand with town manager I don't want to spend a whole lot of time crafting something that he's then going to reject um so if you can kind of get the parameters from him before we do any more work on it and figure out I don't I don't want to I don't want a lot of delay on this I think it's important we move forward and then uh miss Ferrara yeah I'm in agreement with mr. Vernon Jones I think since you all are meeting with mr. Bachman tomorrow would be just to kind of give them give him an idea of where we're going with this right that we just want to pick one entity and and I don't think it's a bad thing just to say that you know we're thinking about you know right now not that we decided at least possibly thinking about seven gen but to to ask him if you know what does he think about that because like mr. Vernon Jones said we don't we don't have time to waste but if he's on board I think then yeah the next step would be for you all to just share that IFB whatever document I forget the name of it but just send that to us and then we could just kind of you know provide some edits and then we can go from there thank you miss Ferrara okay so I think that I'm in agreement if you all are also in agreement with that I think that's a good path for Brianna and I to gauge mr. Bachman's where he wants us to go with this or where he's thinking this will go and if that aligns with what we're requesting and then we can present it to you all the IFB and then follow up with seven gen so if that is okay with everybody I think Brianna and I will move forward with that and we sort of so I think this conversation actually started as we were looking at the community policing or sorry we changed the name to sorry I didn't write it down so I can't repeat it but we changed the name so we were looking at that topic and this came up in terms of the question of timeline because we were looking at the ability to have a consultant and how we would structure the rest of our work so I just want to bring us back to that conversation I know we were tabling the the aspect of policing till next week or the following two weeks while we can all do some more research Ms. Ferrera yeah in terms of well I guess two things I think it was the follow-up in terms of what Ms. Pat said in terms of like you know kind of having the timeline I guess the for the traffic portion of it the recommendations around you know traffic stops and things like that I think we want to you know you know possibly pick a date when we can come ready you know like you know you can resend that document that Ms. Pat and Ms. Owen had started working on maybe I'm thinking even like for the 26th the meeting of the 26th we could revisit it then you know you can share that document we can add any edits to the rest of the readings that we need to do for that you know for the 26th meeting but then in terms of community policing you know I know Mr. Vern Jones you said that you know we need to look at some recommendations around that I'm still not necessarily sold and I've done the reading on the new era of public safety I'm still not necessarily sold on on on recommendations around community policing so I just want to put that out there you know I guess I could be convinced otherwise if I see some some good recommendations but I just don't know besides what like Ms. Pat has said which was you know doing a whole healing piece and things like that I'm just not trusting that whatever we put down for community policing would actually happen and what happened the way we want it to happen as you know so so you know I don't know but I guess we could revisit that and have more of a conversation I know I would not be the person to write any recommendations for that because like I said I don't even know if I would write any recommendations for it but I guess I'm open to discussing it further thank you Ms. for Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen so my my approach um regardless of what we call it um so Mr. Ross is suggesting community police relations and ending over policing to me it doesn't matter the title we call it it's not something I'm interested in working on because I think the goal and I can't speak for all BIPRO folks is strategy to reduce police interaction involvement whether it's positive or negative the less interaction we have with the police the better for us for people of color like I'm not speaking for everybody I mean if it's something we think we want to have the consultant do or something like that it's not a topic I'm overly excited on doing and it's actually you know I don't want to feel traumatized by it by it I do not want involvement with the police I'm sorry I don't want them community policing my neighbor I don't want it thank you thank you Ms. Pat Mr. Vernon Jones um I'm not trying to use this as a way to get community policing back in I absolutely agree that our top priority is reducing interactions between the police and the BIPOC community however we are still going to have a police department they are still going to have some interactions with the BIPOC community and I'd like to see us have some recommendations about about those interactions but I I'm not I'm not advocating for community policing by any means but we've raised some issues in our earlier report and people are looking for us to to say something about it thank you Mr. Vernon Jones Ms. Owen and then Ms. Ferrara one thing that I'm really worried about after what I read in the seventh gen report is this idea of sector-based policing especially with our resident oversight board for me I want members of the community to feel comfortable to apply to be on the resident oversight board and retaliation is a huge thing and just thinking out loud I'm thinking about in my neighborhood how there's a cop across the street from me all the time probably the same officer and I'm just thinking about what that retaliation would be for people applying to be on the resident oversight board so I think we should try to have some sort of conversation on maybe what reactive policing would look like in Amherst instead of just police presence in neighborhoods initiating stuff or a conversation like that before the resident oversight board get started thank you Ms. Allen Ms. Moyston just to be clear I just want to make sure are you saying revisioning and reimagining what the police department looks like Matt you know moving forward is that what you just said or um I was more referring to like I don't know to reactive policing like one of the things that in the seventh gen report was that police initiate calls and are initiating stuff and I think it's from all of the police presence in Amherst for me I live in North Amherst there's so there's so much there's so much of the Amherst police department here and then like two miles down the road there's eight there's the UMass PD I think reducing police presence and also instead of them being posted up to leave the police station when they're called and not just wait but so can I just ask do we think about because the PD is here even if we reduce them they're still here and so there's still be interactions at some point with someone do we think about what it would look like to revision or reimagine what the PD would look like Ms. Pat and then Ms. Ferrara so you know if we look back from part one and even the bad B we're going to be um we're tackling we're kind of like they're recommending how we envision a PD should look like that's how Chris program came about bow the resident we met with last night wanted the traffic control report to include protocols when police interact with resident for example that is even though we would like to recommend non armed non police to handle traffic control but if the town refuses our recommendation say that the police will continue to do the traffic control there has to be protocol of how that will happen do drivers have rights and so on and so forth and also um I think the only thing that will move me is to have concrete uh commitment from the town manager that that will be healing done and I would like you know Dr. Barbara Love to handle the best of what that she used we need to heal us you know before talking about um community policing or whatever name we want to give it people are hurting and we can't just like ignore that and then said oh this is what we would like you know community policing to look like it's not going to fly I mean we we we're talking about people's real lives people who have had you know direct experience with the APD this is no joke so I would like to to get commitment that that would be money spent so how people with expertise to do some um vision it there's something that Dr. Barbara called it you know to do it for the town maybe next year or whatever and then we can talk about community policing when people feel that they're there thank you Ms. Pat, Ms. Ferrara? Yeah I mean you know when we're talking about this stuff you know and again I'm going to keep you using community policing I'm sorry that's a virgins I know we need to change that name but you know right now in terms of this conversation I'm just going to use community policing I mean you are right Mr. Vernon Jones I mean we are going to have police and according to Mr. Barkerman and and and others in town council we're going to have we're actually hiring for vacancy for the police right so instead of reducing you know police they're they're maintaining or are going to be increasing and that's what Mr. Barkerman even recommended was an increase in the police so that's that's the part that really there's no trust right let me be clear there's no trust and that's why there's there's my resistance right now in terms of talking about community policing yes there is a need and yes we are going to have to say something and write something but I need it needs to be out out of the box it can't be I mean some of the stuff that I saw in like an era of public safety it sounds great it's beautiful you know what I'm saying but you need trusted people in those in in those positions to make that happen and there are I don't trust any of those folks in in in the town right now I don't trust Mr. Barkerman you know what I'm saying to do any of of what we would write down in terms of recommendations so what I'm saying and that's why I feel uncomfortable is like we need to think really creatively right we need to really think out of the box we really need to kind of you know you know think differently in terms of whatever recommendations we're going to make because I'm not going to make recommendations thinking that folks like Mr. Barkerman and others are going to put those things into place because I don't trust them to put those things into place I want to make it clear again let's say it again I don't trust them you know so I don't want to make recommendations just to make recommendations too to make everybody feel good that we made some recommendations also you know what I'm saying so so that's the part that is kind of like and we do and I you know and I hear Ms. Pat and obviously I agree with that we have to think about what's going to happen on the ground right with people's lives with people in you know in in in their neighborhoods and stuff like that in our neighborhoods here in Amherst what is happening there what's going to happen on the ground you know and so for us if we make recommendations that then don't fall don't get followed through while it gets twisted and changed and things like that we're going to lose credibility too so that's why I'm saying we need to give a lot of thought to this to really think this through before we start putting pen to paper thank you Ms. for Ms. Owen and then Mr. Vernon Jones. One thing that really set out to me at the meeting last week with the League of Women's Voters was the declaration of racism that the Board of Health is working on I did get a chance to read it and I think that maybe one way we could collaborate with another group is to ask them to include the healing in re-envisioning policing because another thing I don't want to happen is I feel like the town council picks and chooses which one of our recommendations they're going to implement and I feel like if we were to work with a different group if we might have a better chance of it getting somewhere and in their second draft I believe it's being passed next Thursday or this Thursday toward the end one of the things they're asking for is a comprehensive community assessment. Oh okay Sonata Group is thinking about it that's good. Thank you Ms. Owen Mr. Vernon Jones. So we've mentioned this healing and visioning process that Dr. Love recommended. I've been sort of assuming that we had an agreement that we were going to include that in our next report. Is that something we can decide now that yes we're definitely going to do that and then Ms. Ferrera and then Ms. Pat? Yeah I mean yeah we have mentioned it and I think we do want to include it but the thing is to you know what's the extent like for me when I keep on saying reimagining I'm even thinking like the re-envisioning is not just the healing right but this is just me talking right now right but I still need to think it more in terms of not just the healing kind of thing it's a now this envisioning which might take months right and it could even take you know more than a year or whatever is going to really possibly lay the groundwork for changing you know what community policing is so the community is the one that creates the community policing. No not maybe not even us you know what I'm saying but it's the community you know and when I say the community I'm not saying the majority white community I'm talking about BIPOC community folks that are marginalized folks that are English in a second language folks that have disabilities mental health issues so on and so forth those are the folks that we need to get through this envisioning process to create possibly you know some of what needs to happen right and we need to have people there you know to go through the visioning so town members and so on and so forth all have to be there right so that it's all you know everyone creating together as opposed to us putting some stuff on paper that then is never going to go anywhere so I think this envisioning process not going to be as simple as just saying yes we're going to do envisioning with Dr. Barbara Love yes that's going to be part of it but what else is going to come out of it we need to describe those things because I think that's really the basis that we can grow upon this that's that's what I'm thinking right now you know as opposed to the traditional let's make recommendations around community policing policing thank you for oh sorry go ahead Ms. Pat so you know a couple things that you know come to my mind is I know that our group is really pushing for the visioning the healing of our town it's one thing for us to recommend it it would be great if the coaches can get a commitment from the town manager tomorrow when you guys meet with him is it something that he will support because if the health department is also wanting community assessment it's just calling it different names so that means you know it's not just us you know wanting it there are other groups that would like something like this to happen when we get commitment from you know from him then perhaps you know in our recommendation that we want you know the whole idea of community policing what the resident would like to come from the resident themselves from different groups so come up with it I you know I don't know if we can do a good job like us coming up with recommendation for community policing yes we have APD and MS and yes you know they will stay interact with BIPOC people but we you know I'm not into just making recommendation for the sake of that we have to go through process one example that I keep using is study circle I'm not saying it's a you know killing thing but what I like about that project was some people use the experience to create something that is a little bit lasting for example radar where the group recognizes staff teachers in our in our school system who go above and beyond to support students of color you know that's something concrete for example and um what when I joined that study circle I I had no idea that something beautiful like that would come out of it that subgroup decided to run with for example so um what I'm trying to say is that let's not waste our time doing community policing get commitment from the time manager tomorrow that you know you say go put it in the recommendation and said let let let its resident decide what they would like to see as community policing thank you miss pat mr runan jones but let's get anything that anybody thinks is about community policing off our agenda so we don't have to have this discussion again um I withdraw my suggestion that we retitle it and table it I propose we remove it but I do think what miss pat mentioned about protocols about traffic stops is going to be an important area for us to and it may not be just traffic stops but traffic would certainly be a lot of it and I would like us to try to specify protocols and they can be enforced also my guess is if you try to get a commitment out of town manager he's going to ask us for a bigger better description of what it is and my proposal is that you suggest that he go back and listen watch the tape watch the recording of Barbara Lowe's presentation to our group let's let him start there I mean we will have to write something eventually but um that will be a place he could start thank you mr runan jones miss pat and um I must indeed have a nice article about that particular um meeting so I'll be happy to forward it to you guys I saved it that would be helpful thank you miss pat um and so I just wanted to make a few comments also um just mostly in regards to Debra's um idea of re-envisioning something new and just the more research that I do I think all of my everything's pointing me also in that direction um and so I just wanted to share these are all things I know you you all know already but I um signed up for an ACLU course racism and policing and some of the things that we talked about this week were the fact that uh communities of color are under invested in every single aspect besides policing and punitive programs and that they really would benefit from life affirming alterations like education and that those things would be far more successful in reducing crimes and recidivism like having people have any involvement with the legal system in that kind of way and we also talked about police reform and how uh for example Minneapolis in 2014 went through an entire huge police reform under the Obama administration for national and punitive building community trust and that was just um years before the murder of George Floyd so if community if policing can actually be reformed and if that question of if it actually works it has actually been proven time and time again that it doesn't do anything and so if we can make recommendations that are outside of police reform like I don't have an idea in my head of what exactly that would be but I think we're capable of as a group and as a community to be able to come up with what that could be and so I think that like look thinking outside of the box is really where we're going to need to go with this one um thank you Ms. Ferrara yeah and along those same lines I think that would be something that we could also also give to the researcher you know you know whoever we end up that would be something right to really kind of hone in because you know because you know again that's going to be key and and I'm so glad you brought that up because that would be probably part of the you know the kind of background historical reasons why we need to do something different why we need to reimagine something different and you know start with a healing and so on so forth and and make sure that the the community is is uh you know front and center they're the ones running this this whole thing not anyone else it's the community you know the the folks who are BIPOC marginalized are the ones that are the main decision makers in terms of how the police are going to interact you know with them or whether they're going to interact with them at all you know and at what point that would happen you see what I'm saying so I think that um yeah that that you know that would be crucial and obviously you know for me you know for us to come up with something outside the box reimagine because I think it would be important for us to do that it would be something good to give to um you know our researcher thank you miss forever okay and so with that being said I I think well I want to ask to make sure we're all in agreement with putting community or leaving community policing behind at this moment um and that we will start thinking of ideas alternatives to that idea and that we can share with each other at a future time when we have a little bit more time to think about it and do some more research um so at this time I would like to move to the next agenda item which is the resident oversight board uh we did us get a really good momentum on that conversation I think last week so if we can just go back um to the membership stipends and consultants mr. Vernon Jones yeah I I felt like the working group offered a lot of guidance for revision of the statement and I apologize I did not get time to to make any of those revisions uh this week my intention is to get everything that was said last week into the the documents so that next week hopefully we could uh approve something and move toward discussions with the chief of police that's okay you do a lot for us anyways yes thank you mr. Vernon Jones and it's extremely helpful I'm wondering though I know uh the edits haven't been able to be made which is no problem at all but um if we might still be able to have a conversation in regards to um well did we we came up with a final decision in regards to membership but stipends I don't know if that's something we would want to discuss now or um wait for the edits miss pat I thought we did already three k right I wasn't sure if we came to a decision on that I know we talked about a few different things I just couldn't recall if we came to a consensus as a group um I thought we did in regards to membership and wording but that would just be something else that um I think mr. Vernon Jones said that he would add those edits for next meeting did did we come up did we have a formal agreement in regards to the stipend mr. Vernon Jones I thought we agreed on three k yeah miss forera well I mean I thought that we had also I thought we had talked about I guess you know just making sure that three k would be enough right depending on what it is that they'd be doing in terms of the trainings and travel like you know to and from you know the trainings and meetings and so on so forth and what hours I think that that for me anyway I think that that would be how we'd be able to justify whatever amount we're saying whether it's three k whether it's two or this four um you know I don't know if we should just say three k you know if we're not sure that that's the amount that that it will take for them to do what they need to do thank you miss forera yeah I think that I think that would be important um just because there is a question or the idea that not all town committees are stipend or should be stipend or that that that is like a question that is at hand so I think it might be helpful to provide some clarification which shouldn't be needed but as to why um why this number um I think that's what debora was referencing and I think that that would be helpful okay and so is that something that we're okay with saying three k but that we would need to figure out exactly what that would account for how much training that they would need and are these things that um we're going to be deciding before the charge is written or do those things come like do we decide on trainings for the resident oversight board after the charge is written or beforehand miss forera I mean again I think like just because what what we went through with par a right which every like every cent was basically scrutinized in terms of what we recommended you know um if we're not able to account for why we're throwing out that figure you know why are we throwing out three thousand reason why three thousand is the magic number um you know but I'm I'm good with it if it's it's you know even for me right I guess for me I'm like okay three thousand why you know is it because okay training the 30 hours of training which I've read in some of the things that a lot of them say 30 hours of training and then there's going to be you know most likely you know three meetings or one meeting per week or something like that they could possibly be a couple of investigations of you know a month or something I don't know you know what I'm saying I mean I think you'll probably be good it's it's obviously it's not going to be anything exact exact but at least a guesstimate to say okay that equals the the three thousand number because I understand because we we've got questions so much about everything that we wrote down thank you miss for miss pat so I propose the 3k because from what I heard through grapevine that the town council you know it would not look nice for the governance to make less than the oversight board that's one thing the second thing is that this board is going to be dealing with the one of the most powerful feared institution in our town apd I mean if we're if we're lucky to recruit you know bifurc folks that would be great people are putting everything on the line to join the we'll be putting everything on the line to join the board but tallyation even though it will be forbidden you never know it will be one of the most difficult word to be in if you're a person if you're a bifurc person that alone should justify some sort of stipend because you're dealing with police they're very powerful yeah you know there's always the potential of revenge revenge they know where we live they they you know if they want to target you they target some people they will do that so that that's the way I look at it in terms of trainings and stuff I guess I'm not understanding is the training going to be outside almost or is it going to be during the meeting or during when people are working you know the people want to get compensated for taking time off from work I guess I'm not understanding the do we know the timing when the board members will engage in trainings yeah thank you miss pat I think those were my I also have those questions mr. Vernon Jones yeah I don't think we really know exactly how the training is going to go I assume that it some of it will be addition that it will be in Amherst or you know online often that some of it will be additional meetings for the purpose of training the board some of it may be like national webinars that the board is required to sign into but you know at non non work hours and that it's but it is going to be take some time but I don't think we're talking about having people not you know not in the current COVID situation you know traveling to something okay okay and I don't think we're talking we're certainly not talking about board members paying for you know if there's a you know I think we should probably have a statement that any fees for training will be paid by the town so this is really compensation for the time I to me this is compensation for the time of the training the significant amount of work we expect the board to do and we can't you know we can't actually predict the number of hours for that and the fact that an incentive is needed for people to you know particularly for BIPOC people to take on the the challenge of deciding to assume this responsibility in town. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones Ms. Ferrara. Yeah and for me though I know we we've had those conversations and possibly you know it could have been also when when I missed some of the meetings but also obviously in terms of the incentivized BIPOC and those who are marginalized to to take part in this oversight board it would be like you know for child care for transportation with them to get to to the meetings you know to you know you know to buy meals and things like that you know when they you know either before or afterwards after the meetings you know and and I don't know I mean you're right Mr. Vernon Jones you think that during this COVID time and probably be you know online but who knows right things are opening up so it couldn't mean you know a conference or something like that because I envision before this this board begins they're going to have to do just like press folks are going to have to go through all this training before they get out there the oversight board is going to have to go through you know like a good chunk of time it's going to be training before they even start looking at a case or getting complaints and stuff like that they all have to be trained up you know everyone's going to come in there's going to hopefully the oversight board they're going to have certain criteria right in terms of experience but they're not all going to be on the same page at that point right so they're going to need and then you know even what miss moison has said they're going to need information around the police department our police department the structure and they're going to need information about how the town works the hierarchy all of those things and then the specifics about how they do their jobs investigation so on so forth outcomes discipline I mean so they're going to have to do that and then we got to think about every new board member is going to have to do that training you know or something similar to it because you can't also change it up you know understand them to do other webinars or so on you know I mean they all have to be getting same type of information and then obviously you know every six months or whatever getting more training so that they're you know trained on what they need to know and keep up to date with things so that's what I foresee you know it's going to be a good chunk of time especially in the beginning or as a new board member when they come on board thank you miss ferrera okay and so I'm wondering how you all would like to go about the stipends and if you think we need to make that decision now because I know Mr. Vernon Jones has agreed to propose these edits hopefully for next meeting so if we came back to this document at next meeting would you all be prepared to revisit the stipends then or would you like to visit it now to be included with the document with the edits for next week miss pat I thought we're doing the later to you know to include it in the edit I mean for what we have shared so far I think it's a strong compelling reason why we're suggesting 3k with that incredible amount of time and incentive for especially BIPOC folks so I think we should convince the time council thank you miss thank you mr. Vernon Jones my suggestion is that I write a separate document or section that gives the rationale for having a stipend at all and includes all the things we just talked about I think I got notes on most of it um and that we put in 3000 but we have this long explanation about stipends uh you know we we know what kind of committees you get an amourist without a stipend you get almost entirely white you get um you know a lot of older retired folks uh and that's not the kind of committee that is going to build trust in the police so it won't it's not a matter of whether you think it's the shooter shouldn't get money it will not achieve its goals if you don't do something different and that's why we are recommending a stipend um so I think you know write that up and then we put in the 3000 and um see what it looks like when we get it all together I did have one other request I wrote a section about why a majority BIPOC uh and I saw that yeah if people have comments on that I would welcome those in the next couple of days so that if I need to do revisions I can get those comments sooner rather than later thank you Mr. Vernon Jones um okay so I just want to make sure everyone here is in agreement with the 3k for the stipend um Miss Owen Miss Ferrera and Miss Pat Mr. Vernon Jones and I um am also in agreement so I think um I am in favor of that recommendation Mr. Vernon Jones of the 3k and that you write up something in regards to why stipends and that do would you like our input on that document as well or just on the um why majority BIPOC at this time well if if I get it to you in time I'd love to have feedback but we'll have to see when I get it written um but for right now the the why majority BIPOC would be helpful to have any comments on okay great and so if everyone can uh revisit this document and get any comments edits or suggestions to Mr. Vernon Jones within the next two days two and a half two and a half okay so is that Saturday or Sunday is there any Friday I think it would be Sunday afternoon that's not till noon noon Sunday okay okay great okay great and then I would like to move to the next part of the agenda which is the standing committee and so to uh check back in with Miss Pat I think we were able to get that document out to uh Mr. Buckleman yeah okay great um I don't think I saw a response yet but this is something that Brianna and I can also um revisit with him at tomorrow's meeting if that is helpful yeah okay and then the next agenda item is subgroup check-in I want to reserve this time to hear from groups if there is any other group I think we actually heard from all of the groups because we unless there's something else from traffic control that you guys didn't get to go over but um I think we actually heard from all of the subgroups already Mr. Vernon Jones just um on the traffic control um I'd like to Deborah's suggestion that we set a date maybe August 26 when we would have a try to have a pretty full discussion and I wonder if if people are reading and finding things that are useful it would be helpful to have those sent to all of us like whatever you're finding is the most useful in your reading if you could send those to all of us that would be great and I just say I started an article that I got through to through a link that Brianna had sent us earlier uh it's called traffic without police in the Stanford law review uh and I'll if it's as good as it looks I'll be sure and send it to everybody thank you Mr. Vernon Jones miss Owen I was just going to say I think I will go back and look at the traffic control document that me and Miss Pat have going because I think I have two and one of them has the link and then one of them has a summary of um New York City's Department of Transportation's report just so that we can have one document with all of the links so we're all on the same page for um August 26th great okay great thank you miss Owen miss Farnera and also I think like what you were saying Mr. Vernon Jones is good about sending in what we have but could you re send that document that you and Miss Pat had left on because then I could just add stuff to that thank you miss Farnera okay so with that being said I would like to move uh Miss Pat yes Miss Pat so are we clear as to when we think Mr. Ross should submit the oversight board um document are we doing the end of this month um miss I'm sending it to top manager thank you miss Pat miss Owen and then Mr. Vernon Jones I don't know if it makes sense but it might be good if we met with the police chief again after we finish our final version of it and make sure he's on board with it and then bring it to the town manager if the group's in agreement with that thank you miss Owen Mr. Vernon Jones yeah that would be my approach that I get a draft to you in time for you to read before our meeting next week we can come to agreement next week that then we would take it to the chief you know a follow-up to the meeting that Breonna and Alicia and I had with the chief and see if we can get you know I mean the chief may have some pushback on some and we may have to negotiate bits of it but if we could if we can reach an agreement with the chief I'm hopeful that that would then bring the town manager on board thank you Mr. Vernon Jones miss Pat yeah that sounds good I like that approach and um I think because it's going to be uh challenging to recruit especially BIPOC folks this sooner we you know finalize things and you know push it to the town manager to start recruiting you know the better so but does end of this month sound realistic to shoot for Mr. Vernon Jones I think we could shoot for that but I don't think we know until we see how the conversation with the chief goes you know that that may be a process and I don't want us to rush that process any fair you know we want to succeed in that negotiation sure um yes miss Pat I don't want us to disband before putting in place um so that that's where my thinking is coming from um that you know that is a oversight board in place even if it's few weeks overlap with SWG before we finally disband yeah yeah not to give any reason to say oh we didn't have you know there's not enough time to put this in place because SWG submitted their recommendation very late um I don't want us to have any gap with the two standing committee uh yeah board coming on yeah thank you oversight board and also the community safety and social justice committee it would be nice for them to it would be nice to have these two committees in place before CSWG disband like you know at least by October to set it up before we end our charge November 1st thank you miss Pat I think I'm in agreement with all of those things and I think um I mean I do think we need to keep in mind what Mr. Vernon Jones was saying in case there's any pushback or needing to edit or refine the document but I do think it's a it is um an obtainable goal to at least aim for the for the end of this month and that if all things do go smoothly I think that we can achieve that so I think we should aim for that but just be keep in mind that we may come across other roadblocks along the way that we might have to adjust but I think that that's a good goal to have um in terms of direction miss Ferreira sorry just unmuting um I guess for me just for clarity again um when does Mr. Vernon Jones want feedback from us I guess you know I I did hear around the um what is it the BIPOC majority but what about the rest of the document itself because the one thing too is that I probably I would want to get like a Word document because right now it's like PDF and stuff like that but it would be good to get whatever you have Mr. Vernon Jones like in a Word document and then I could review everything and then send any edits and things like that yes Mr. Vernon Jones yeah I can send the the Word document you know before the edits I can probably get that out tonight um and if you can get me feedback again by noon on Sunday um then then it'll appear in the you know in the uh in the version I'm able to send you for discussion for next week okay great thank you Mr. Vernon Jones miss moisten so I can send you good so the reason why it's in a PDF is because I have to turn it in out to a PDF to upload it so I have the Word version too and I can just send that to you guys now it's the one that's dated 727 as you said without the changes great thank you thank you miss moisten okay great yes miss pat so not to be a pain okay so next week we're going to discuss edit that mr. Ross would do we're going to discuss it then the following week we are you know on break right and then hopefully we will have a sense of where we are with oversight board document do we have enough time tonight or should we table it for next week like what other topics do we want to tackle for for the months of september and october you know beside traffic I mean we're doing traffic control and we're doing the oversight board and we're you know we're not going to be touching the community policing because we'll be recommending healing for the town so when we're done with these two major topics what are we going to be working on in the fall miss ferrera and then miss allen well I so so traffic control we had talked about 826 for us to come ready to kind of talk and then miss bowman's going to share the document that you miss pat and her had worked on hopefully even like if you could send it out today or whatever on the next two days then we'll have that but I still think though the community policing I still we do need to touch that I think we need to give that to the researcher because we still want to reimagine re-envision something different you know which is going to include the healing but it's going to kind of build off of the healing so I think that that's still something that we're going to need to discuss I think in September you know it's going to be the community policing especially with hopefully some new information that the researcher whoever that ends up being hopefully 7th gen but if not whoever else we ended up working with can do so for me I would like to have that still on on on the agenda and then I know we had discussed a while ago and I had said that hopefully that wouldn't fall off the fall through the cracks was around training for the police because they're still out there and as we can see they're hiring more of them more police so I would like to revisit that too before our 10 years is over that was almost thinking sorry yes miss pat I was almost thinking like if we get researcher you know they should also you know work on the training what it will look like they you know anti bias training and stuff like that um okay I forgot the second thing I wanted to say we'll come back to me thank you miss pat miss Ellen and then miss moisten one not important I don't I can't I can't decide whether it's essential like I don't know if I would want the consultants to look at this but at some point I think and even if this is I'm more than happy to do some research on this addressing the mutual aid between the police department because I did with the hiring of the new officers to fill the vacancy one of the not excuses but reasoning was like oh we're gearing up for the UMass students to be back like okay what is the UMass police department doing and I assume they have a significant like more funding because they're funded through the state so I think it would be important for a group to learn a little bit more or have more clarity on what the relationship between the Amherst police department and UMass the Amherst police department is to learn what mutual aid really means thank you miss Ellen miss pat so I just remembered what I was going to say um the meeting we had yesterday with the a committee member um we talked about like you know what police do their typical day you know or their typical week I am clueless what they do it would be nice to add up for us as a group to research on that or give it to a researcher because I have no idea what they do I have I have no concept what they do so it would be nice I don't even know I don't I mean I've read it like the chain of command can have things you know but not it would be nice to to have some sort of written document for the benefit of the public if if they highly educated but retired professor is saying this it has crossed my mind too like I don't fully you know understand the duty of a typical officer I don't thank you miss pat um miss moisten oh just a couple of things brand I like I don't know a lot about the mutual agreement between the UMass and the Amherst PD except for the UMass PD stays on the UMass campus only and so all of the folks who live off campus are get have responses from the Amherst PD not the UMass PD they don't come out of the UMass district if that makes sense that's the only thing I really know about their mutual aid um the other thing is and I don't I'm going to try and say this because sometimes I say things and it's either confusing or B doesn't seem sensitive enough and that's not the case I'm just so similar to what miss pat just said like we don't really understand what they do in the day-to-day basis if we take a b and c out they're still left there and then they have d e and f and then how does that d e and f work with the rest of the community does that does that make sense I think when I asked that question before about revisioning and reimagining what the police department looks like that's what I was trying to get at like after we pull these things out we still have a PD here and then so what is their job and how do we want to see the changes of those things that they do change does that make it make more sense because there's a I feel like there's a gap of what happens when we pull a b and c out and then d e and f are left and then how does that shape moving forward what does that look like and I and I'm still a strong believer that if you know somebody is coming in off the street and they need to go to the Amherst police department that that interaction is is good like if they're on the street and they're being harassed or something that they know that they can go into the Amherst police department and that's a safe place people need to be able to know that and that has nothing to do with race I'm just saying like they're still there right and I and I and I don't really know what it looks like when they're just still there and you take out traffic and we take out nonviolent crimes right thank you miss moison miss ferrera um yeah miss moison I think that's what we that's the whole conversation around like healing and re-envisioning it's the kind of deal with the fact that they're they're still there and obviously like you know mr bachman is is hiring you know more of them and stuff so so we know they're there you know and we know there's going to be left there as of right now um even though we asked for them to be reduced so I think that all of this and especially that revisioning portion is going to deal with that what you're asking exactly thank you miss for mr verna jones I mean one of my questions has been how how could each department of the town be a force for undoing systemic racism how could each department in town contribute uh to the dismantling of white supremacy and we're not going to get a full answer by any means but if we have any thoughts about that or our researcher can come up with anything about how the police could be a part of such a thing I think we ought to say so and that was on our what was on our list at one point of you know what anti-racist non-bias policing look like the other thing that I'd like to have on our agenda is something about uh transparency and public access to data um I think some of the stuff about stops and arrests and all of that should be on an easily accessible public dashboard that anybody can read that gets updated I mean I don't know we can talk about how often you know maybe it's once a month I don't know what it is but I think it'd be good for us to make a recommendation about what it is we'd like to see and how frequently and how transparent now how quickly that can happen you know we learned from the chief that there's something about their the people managing their current software or going out of business in a couple of you know or widely used by police departments or going out of business in the next couple years and every police department is going to have to do something else so we may not get what we want right away but our input might make a big difference in in what comes next if we can be clear enough and strong enough about what we think ought to be there in terms of transparency and access to data thank you mr. Vernon Jones miss ellen another thing that i'm thinking about just when debora brought up um looking at the training is maybe looking at who the police is currently who they have partnerships with who the cIT training is through um because I know in the implementation meetings partnering with cso was something that came up so seeing where who is who is running their trainings who are they part who are their community partners and stuff like that might be interesting to explore thank you miss ellen miss ferrera um I just have a clarifying question for for mr. Vernon Jones so I guess when you were saying about you know anti-racist and our biased policing and you said about the town I guess so so are you saying for us to expand it because I mean obviously just dealing with the police in and of itself is enough in terms of the anti-biased and anti-racist so I guess that's why I'm asking a clarifying question no my we're not going to do anything more than police my hope is that we might be able to eventually frame some of it so that what the kinds of recommendations we make about the police are the kinds of questions we ask over time get asked and implemented in every other department not that that's our job oh you might think about you know we might frame this as you know here's what we think should happen to the police and a similar process should happen throughout the town government thank you thank you thank you miss ferrera miss pat okay so if we can like summarize what we'll be working on in the fall september and october miss martin did you get the notes i didn't did i get the notes from tonight's meeting no no no like um some of the brainstorming um that we just did like the mutual aid you know see your minds and planning like topics we were throwing out that we would like to work on in the fall yeah like i took some notes oh you did okay yeah i did write down everything that yeah okay so maybe we can continue the conversation next week does i would like to have an idea as to what our group is thinking that we should tackle uh september and october maybe live two weeks time for us to summarize and edit and look and revise in our final document do we have date we're we're we're shooting to submit our final report it's going to be november first or before november first so i actually am not sure did we miss moisten is our official end date for this group november one i believe so like we just said november but he didn't necessarily change it from sept you know how september one he didn't necessarily say november 30th but um that's something you can ask him tomorrow to confirm but i'm pretty sure it was the first yeah i had heard november first that's why i heard too yeah that november first yeah because i had actually asked him if he was willing to put his slogan in there and he said no november first okay well you can you can you can confirm with him tomorrow or ask him if there's a different date but you know okay and will we be doing like some sort of presentation like we did with the first part of our work so i mean i'll like to see if we have a date for that yeah yeah for me that's what i would want like tomorrow when you talk to him um uh elicia and brianna would be to ask like okay so by when should our recommendations be done like when do we present them to the town council since you know especially if he says okay november first is the the the last day that we're going to be working before the oversights i mean the standing committee comes into play then you know by when we need to present the recommendations and all of that because it's probably going to be like you know i'm thinking like probably the month before or something like that a couple weeks beforehand okay thank you miss for miss moisten so the council has i think that their meeting september 27th is already pretty full but they have an october 4th 2021 meeting that maybe that would be a good opportunity which means you would present to the town manager the week or two weeks before that did they have anything at the end of october they have um the october 18th is their next meeting after the fourth yeah it sounds like that's yeah i think we should shoot for the 18th yeah yeah okay what is the process so what is the process of putting us in our agenda so the town manager will contact town council okay so then tomorrow if you can if you can ask him if we are shooting for october 18th to meet with the town council by when we be presenting to him our recommendations so would that be like the week before or two weeks before so then that would give us the these deadlines to work from okay okay uh thank you miss ferrer we will bring those concerns to mr bachlman tomorrow and try to get some answers to bring back to you all for next week yes miss ferrer so i guess that's that was a good question that miss pat asked like in terms of my notes just to make sure that we're all on the same page what i have is re-envisioning policing you know quote unquote you know for entities community policing but and i kind of added you know with the focus of um anti-racist non-bias you know policing i think that would be the way i would frame it and then um training for the police looking at mutual aid and then transparency to data easily you know like how how can we present the data easily in a transparent way i mean those were the the main ones that i had on was there anything else no that's everything i have to also continue the conversation in terms of our timeline that was the only other thing that i had that you didn't end for next week's i have the um read the the edits on the resident oversight board why majority bipak and why stipend but yeah yeah i was just i was just focusing on september october yeah i had mentioned i had mentioned about what a typical day looks like for oh yes an officer okay a typical week or what you know the chain of command what what they do ten that's something we can give to the research effect okay okay thank you miss pat and miss forera mr varnan jones um i'd like to hold open the possibility that we might have some other policy recommendations as we talk about traffic protocols for instance it may turn out that we think about a protocol about something else and there's uh you know there's some research that says police officers are more dangerous if they're working too many hours and you know should there be a limitation there there might be some things like that that come along that we might also want to have other policy recommendations i'm not suggesting we do a complete review of policy but as we get into these other things we may identify some things that we want to recommend so we have enough okay thank you mr varnan jones yes mrs pat so i guess next week we prioritize the topics we want to you know pursue for september and october right are we going to do all this all these items so um no i have most of them split up uh some for next week and some we like some things like the coming back to the conversation in regards to community policing for we left that for september and then traffic control we said we were going to look at at the 826 meeting so yeah i kind of blocked it off here and the notes that i have under different dates but that we would have to revisit the conversation in regards to a timeline okay i'm feeling i'm feeling much better today like you know so we have some sort of outline of what we're doing thank you miss pat um miss moisten i just wanted to make sure that everybody had the latest i fb copy are we like last i we just talked about that and you guys said you were going to use that so i just wanted to make sure because aren't we going to revise send it out to everyone and have it revised so i just wanted to make sure that everybody had a copy of it but yeah so okay sorry mr ronan jones and then miss pat am i right that the document title was i fb 6 i think that's the the latest one that appears that i have i think so i'll just send it just in case i rather thank you miss moisten that would be helpful i just sent you guys like five emails and i'm sorry so yeah yes miss pat and then this for era so to be clear we're not going to do anything about the i fb document until we hear back from our coaches correct okay right that was my question so thank you all um so we do have one more agenda item and that is the crest implementations follow-up so brianna and i and miss moisten did meet with the implementation this morning so i just want to take a little bit of time to share significant updates from that meeting so first uh we have sent out our grant application for the department of health grant that we were speaking about last week and we did submit that application with the collaboration of the african diaspora mental health association um and so uh they have given us a letter of commitment and we are hoping that we will qualify for that grant opportunity but just wanted to let you all know that we have um officially applied to that grant for crest um sorry i'm just looking through my notes here and just trying to pick through so leap the leap contract is still in negotiation um but because we didn't get the technical support that we had applied through the harvard harvard kennedy grant um that we are updating that contract because we're trying to add more of the technical technical support that we had previously hoped to get from the other program to the leap contract and so that they're hoping that that will be finalized within the week but that leap has already started looking at some of the apd data um scott livingstone did report that there were some data that they were unable to access through the apd themselves and leap has already been in contact with their software team and is in um the process of collecting um that data so leap will be hopefully within the next two weeks looking at that data and um we have dispatch policies and evaluation and they will give us a list of deliverables within about a month and a half i think it's as a turnaround for leap evaluation um sorry brianna feel free to yeah i can jump in yeah i just have so many notes i'm trying to see which things go together no it's okay um another thing like to go with leap um we did start the job descriptions but we agreed we agreed as a team that once we have the data from leap we'll have a better idea of the skill set we're going to need from the responders i know in our report in our conversation we talked about emphasizing lived experience um people that have behavioral health backgrounds and such and once we have that data we'll be able to um craft the responders positions um miss pat myself and alisha have been working on the job description for the director but it's not at a point where it's i would even say like a draft i'd be comfortable showing you guys it's a work in progress um and the grant that we applied for um one of the things that we also have to do to prepare to anticipate that we get it is write a job description for a project manager for grass along with the director so that's something we're working on and the project manager would work on things like the collaboration between um the police department the dispatch the medics the fire department um that type of thing whereas the director would be doing the training and the administrative stuff yeah i think those that were we're talking about other things and working on a timeline but those are the main things that aren't sort of working and in motion right now um yes mr vernon jones i saw in the email some reference to mary beth leaving what else about that yes so mary beth has resigned from her position um so i think next week we do have another implementation meeting scheduled for next thursday but that will be her last implementation meeting um she just has accepted a job elsewhere elsewhere and so we could we plan to continue to move forward with the implementation team and we will also discuss that more with mr bachlemann tomorrow in terms of what what we would need in order to move forward successfully yes miss pat so um did you guys thank you uh to both of you uh miss muskin were you there today yes thank you guys for your time were you guys were it were you guys able to come up with the public forum yeah well i think that we did discuss that in in the sense of community outreach outreach plan and so i you know it's all about timing so i think once we get the director position going a little bit more then we'll start with the the open forums for the community to get their input on what they would like to see the cross responder program be and we won't be able to do it it'll be too late to do it once the director comes i would think like we is something we should do as soon as possible yeah i think well yes but also i think we're we talked with mr bachlemann about doing it on an ongoing basis so that we can set up one so that we get guidance from the community but then also give them opportunities for feedback so that at various stages throughout the implementation process we can say okay we have this idea that we think is concrete and ready to go let's present it to the community and get some feedback um and so that we would also hope to build that in along the way so that they're and that there will be time for the director to also engage with the community while they build because they're going to be really managing the team so i think that they'll also need to engage in the community and what the community's expectations are so i think it's gonna we want the public outreach in the community engagement to be ongoing but we haven't set final dates for those things yet and then i don't alisha brianna and miss or miss alisha miss brianna and miss pat um if if you guys can revise the job descriptions for um um i'm trying to think of what it was if we can post those before i go on vacation in august that would be great so i go on vacation on august 19th so if we can post those the final that either that day or on the 18th so that would mean that the three of you guys would need to work together with the revisions and then i will bring it to the hr director for revisions there and to put it into the templated format of our job descriptions and then bring it back to you guys for review and then post on the 19th so if we can somehow have all that done and the hr director's on vacation next week okay thank you miss moisten miss pat um wouldn't we want to have the cswg take a look at it too before we post it well that's what i was saying is to bring it back to you guys okay so it would have to come back at next thursday's meeting yeah um thank you miss moisten and miss elin yeah the the draft that alisha and i brought to the meeting today it just had so many revisions and we made revisions during the meeting so i'll make them and then we can share them next week so everyone can take a look at them and everybody was a fantastic job thank you miss moisten um yeah so i think we the hope with that is that brianna and i will be able to get those revisions for the next implementation meeting which is next thursday morning so that at that meeting we can sort of solidify it with the implementation team and then share it with you all later that night to get feedback um okay brianna do you have anything else to share or miss moisten any important takeaways from the implementation meeting that i might be missing out on i don't think so and i think next week we'll have more to report back to the group because we're also going to talk with mr bachelman about um the implementation team and how that's going to look going forward without mary bass okay yes um miss pat so this is not for anybody to respond but why are our high-level administrators living their jobs we have our health department director leave abruptly and we have our senior center is that what it's called senior center director leaving that's it what's going on um so i have question about the um the bph grant application that we put in that the time put in do we know when to expect some you know feedback from bph yes so we don't have a final date but i think she said that october sometime before october because october was the date that they planned to disperse the funds but we don't know which day we would know whether or not we were selected but it would be sometime before october and the project manager job description uh so um i'm assuming it would be a temporary position right because when the grant money goes out that's it is that is this a multi-year this is a multi-year i think yeah and it requires that we have that position as well uh so i honestly don't know i think that though that may become one of our measures of efficacy like when we're measuring the program um and evaluating it that we would make the decision at that point once that if that funding doesn't continue and that requirement is no longer there i think if we see that position still necessary that it might continue but i think that that would be something that we address at the evaluation at that time because at at this point if we do receive the grant we're committed to it at least for a few years last question and i'll shut up so with the dispatch policies you know your group is discussing is that is there any mention of ever creating uh press dispatcher at all so we did bring that up to mary beth i know it things may be different because she won't be in charge moving forward but we have spoken with her about that and brought up the community's concerns and so i think really for them it was um an issue of funding and so that if we are able to secure these grants and at a an appropriate level of funding that then we may be able to readdress that question and it may be a more realistic achieve thing that we can achieve but that we're waiting to see what type of grant funding we'll be able to access because we currently haven't retained any grant funding um mr vernon jones just wonder if it'd be possible to get a include in the leap contract a recommendation from them around dispatch or a plan about how it could be done if we had the funds or whatever would make the most sense there they just seem to have the best overview of things across the country yeah i'm looking back at my notes from the meeting and it says that um leap is in the leap contract there including things in regards to dispatch policies and evaluation uh so i don't know what's specifically in regards to dispatch but i know that there is something in there that they are going to be looking into so i i think that that um that ask would be completely in reason so i think that's something we just speak the word staffing in that list as well well thank you mr vernon jones miss ferrera i just uh wanted to rehear what uh this brand what brian what you had said about the uh what's the difference between the direct and the project manager so the project manager is going to be doing um working with the police department the fire department um dispatch the dispatchers and be doing the collaboration from what i understand whereas the director is going to be working on um creating and implementing the trainer the training for the responders the administrative stuff working monday through friday um i guess like in office stuff and um hiring the responders and that type of thing from what i understand miss moisten and alisha correct me if i'm wrong yeah i think basically i think the director has a lot of responsibilities because that would also include like data management also if they would have the um if they're we needed to secure more grants moving forward that they would be in charge of looking for grants um and those things and so that the project manager was sort of just more of a collaborative effort sort of um bringing all of those things together for the director um miss pat and then miss moisten so that's exactly i'm glad that you know this group is tackling that because when i hear about director of the department it's more of administration and so you know for all uh items like you guys listed that's what the person should be doing not necessarily the clinical stuff i mean if the person have clinical background that's a plus but the director executive director whatever one will call the person is mostly administration data management training that's you know manager that's what they do but the responders it would be nice you know with lived experiences some um professional work experience and things like that would be good for the responders but for the director administration purely and yeah so what i'm trying to say is the job description that we're working on will need to be really revamped very very well because i alluded to that when i when i was editing it it has to be administration that's you know training personnel you know stuff like that yes thank you miss pat miss moisten i was just going to say that um strategic planning is in there too but also um i kind of see the program manager as the assistant director i mean it's it's kind of equivalent to the same where they're going to be taking the stuff that you know a busy director can't do on the day-to-day basis to make sure that things are still operating smoothly which i think is a great idea you know um to have for this position any new position too right especially if they don't i don't know if admin support is coming i'm not quite clear on that or not but oh no part-time correct i think we hope so um miss pat so the town council and the town manager will not admit this the cswg we knew this already and we did recommend to we recommended um didn't we have assistant director for crest program so we're just like using the word project manager it doesn't matter what we call it there has to be an assistant helping director because too much work on the person's plate to handle so it's like instead of acknowledge acknowledging cswg of what we recommended we're not going to get credit for it so i want to put it out in the public so that when people are listening you know go back to watch this they will say aha dph want them to have a project manager aka assistant director that cswg already recommended does that make sense to people yes thank you miss pat yeah at least i'm an employer i'm a business woman so that's my cup of tea thank you miss pat um okay and brianne or miss moison uh just to follow up uh one more time before i move on if there's anything else from today's implementation meeting that um we did not discuss yet um so the next part of the agenda is just for upcoming events if anybody has anything that they would like to share i think we have um yes miss moison uh yeah i'm just gonna unmute and mute myself sorry about that um so also i just thought it was really important that we did talk about that if we do not get this grant that we still need to connect and try to bring the african disbore mental health association somehow over into the amherst area so we still need to i think that's an important piece so we still need to stay very connected to them um in some way so that's something to to think about um as well thank you miss moisten miss pat so i'm sorry to to hear and to see miss um mary bett uh go but i just wanted to comment how responsive she was last week when i attended the meeting and how quickly you know uh she got into action that's the kind of um administrators we want like listen to bipe up what we're saying take action and not just you know agree with us and listen and not do anything she was quick boom boom boom boom and so you know sorry that she's moving on but i wish her the best thank you miss pat um so i also did want to share here that marci sglo from the league of woman voters sent us an event for active bystander for a law enforcement conference that will be happening next week um i'm not sure if you all received that email um but it looks like it's taking place thursday august 11th and friday august 12th from 11 a.m to 5 p.m there's a bunch of different events happening throughout the day so it's not something that you would have to attend the whole day and we have an agenda here that we i can send out to you all if you are interested and then we have our day out thank you miss moisten it doesn't show much did everybody receive this or no or did you guys need this to be sent out when when was this sent out i don't think i got it okay forwarding now when was this it was on just the third i don't recall so what was the third tuesday so i'm i'll just forward it okay thank you miss moisten and does anybody else have any upcoming events they would like to share yes miss moisten we are celebrating our first indian independence day um celebration i believe on the on the 16th or i'll have more information at our next meeting about it but we're super excited here to to have that happen awesome thank you miss moisten and so for our next meeting date i think we did um say we are going to meet next thursday the 12th um 5 30 to 7 30 and are there any other topics not anticipated within 24 hours of the meeting that anyone would like to discuss at this time mr verna jones i just want to say another thank you to our two co-chairs you are working so hard and i really appreciate it thank you all incredible thank you all for all you guys's work i feel like we've been really killing it the last month and i have more than ever like i know that i feel like everyone's on the verge of burnout and i hope that everyone's taking care of themselves and i appreciate all of you for all the work you're all doing yeah thank you rihanna i'm in agreement i feel like we've made incredible traction within the last couple of weeks and we hit sort of a moment of being discouraged when we heard we weren't going to get consultants and what we were going to do and i feel like we really just took off so i really appreciate you all and and your hard working commitment i think we're going to come out with with great results so with that being said and all of our business tonight being complete i would like to call this meeting adjourned sounds good take care of yourselves be well everyone