 Hello world and welcome to the Bitcoin video, episode two. I'm Bruce Wagner. You enjoying? Manima. Manima. And Ed Gell. Ed Gell. Today, we're going to talk with Jared Kenna of a new venture. This is earth-shattering Bitcoin world news called tradehill.com. Tradehill.com is the newest, best exchange site for instant Bitcoin purchases. And so joining us live via Skype is Jared Kenna. Hello Jared. Hello. Where are you Jared? I am in Chile. I am in Yudemar, Chile. Is it Chile and Chile right now? Unfortunately, it's hot and I'm wearing a suit. So are we? So I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. I want to take a break. So are we? So I want to take a break and just mention today's episode is brought to you by our three sponsors, BitcoinBonus.com, where you're rewarded with Bitcoins for shopping online and AmbervertCreative.com. AmbervertCreative will create your identity in print, web, and online. And Tradehill.com, which is obviously who we're interviewing today. Tradehill.com is the new Bitcoin exchange for instant Bitcoin purchases. So, back to you, Jared. So what's happening? Tell us this story. Well, we're going live right now. We're doing a few things differently. We're trying to make it a lot easier to buy Bitcoins, a lot simpler and a lot faster and obviously cheaper. So we're trying to offer as many varieties of deposit and withdrawal methods and currencies. Obviously, I'm in Chile, so Chilean peso was a big priority. Currently, we're offering the US dollar, blue insoles, Chilean peso, euros, Australian dollars. Brazil is coming really soon. We just confirmed India and Israel. So we're going to have the Israeli shekel and the European rupee as well. It says Bitcoin really isn't a world currency. Yes, coming of age. You're an American guy, right? That's correct. I'm a US citizen. Let's start with that. How did you end up in Chile? I'm going to Chilean girl. Of course. We're doing good. We talked about this before you laughed at me a little bit. We're still together. We're still together. We're doing great. That's awesome. We went on a date or two and then Chile. I pretty much had to decide if I wanted to see her again. I had to fly down. So I flew down and... I love Chile. That's great. That's history. How long ago did you guys... First of all, who was involved in this new venture? How did you get together and when did you come up with this idea? Well, I've been following Bitcoin for a while. I did put enough money in 20 cents. We did, right? I've been following it since that point, which was probably six months ago or so. I really like the idea. I like it from an economic perspective. I like it. I give it everything. And I really wanted it to succeed. I wasn't really optimistic in the beginning. I mean, I was optimistic, but part of me said, you know, this is too much. People won't understand it. It's a little bit too much to grasp. And then I saw how hard the community was working. And if you know as well, this is a real grassroots effort. And then I thought, you know, hey, how can I get a part of this? How can I make some money? And I looked at what's lacking. In the T-Docs, they do a great job. I'm not going to bash them. T-Docs at all. I like Tux. He's a great guy. And they've done a great job. But there's a lot of things that we can be doing differently. Also, in T-Docs is a single point of failure with Bitcoin. Sometimes in T-Docs, it wouldn't destroy Bitcoin, but it would be a major blow. Yeah. But your point is that it's so distributed that you shouldn't have any single point of boost or exchange. And the same with trade, though. I mean, as much as I would love all the Bitcoin volume to go through us, it's not a good idea to be distributed. So everyone agrees. Yeah, definitely. I think everybody agrees that the less chance of a single point of failure, it's all the way around for the whole world, for all of Bitcoin. That would be almost like a central bank. Exactly. Otherwise, yeah, it's like we rely on the Fed. So are you a developer, or what's your background? What are you doing before this? Well, I'm into computers. I grew up screwing out computers, building them, playing video games, and all that stuff. So, yeah, I can develop a little bit, but I've got some guys that are professional developers, and this isn't something that you want to take lightly. So I called up a few friends. We've got one guy who was a lead software developer for SpaceX, which, if you're familiar with SpaceX, you know, I figured if the guy can write a program and put a rocket in space, he'd got to work for it. So I called him up and called another friend who's actually the one that's going to be on the Spanish Bitcoin show named Francisco Dagnino, and he worked for one of the largest investment banks in the world, and for confidential reasons, I don't think it's a lot to mention it. If he is, he'll probably say I was a Spanish big friend of mine. He also worked for one of the largest U.S. retail banks in the United States, and basically doing this, moving money around, recording where it goes, all that stuff. So how many of you guys are involved? There's three of us, we're the core, but we've brought in some other people as well. We've got, as much as the Bitcoin community might cringe at this, we've got some Wall Street folks, we've got some guys that do derivatives, quantitative finance, that type of thing. None of that's implemented yet, but that's coming soon. Derivatives, quantitative financing? So options and I don't even understand. Margin trading? I barely understand what that is. Why would those models fit into Bitcoin? Because Bitcoin doesn't necessarily match them. Exactly, exactly. And the biggest difference is you can't just make it. You know, all or any other, the opportunity. Central Bank decides they want to print, you know, a hundred billion, then you go ahead and do it. So how would that work? I don't quite get it. So if I want to, what is a margin is when I'm borrowing money to buy Bitcoin? Is that basically what it is? I knew where I'd borrow it from. Well, in this case you'd be borrowing it from us before the ones operating. But it gets complicated. You can get swapped around and everything. But the thing is there's always going to be a risk for someone. We can't just create money. So you have to be very careful with it. And before bringing it in, and doing this personally for a long time, I'm directly responsible for the collapse of the United States. I don't want to associate that with I don't know if these are good references or not. They're professional guys who've been doing this for a long time. They have all the degrees, qualifications, the regulations. Which is another big thing in Bitcoin. It's lacking regulation. There's a lot of areas and there's a lot of ambiguities. So we want to bring some regulation to it. I think when it remains unregulated, there's going to be risks and misconceptions and everything else. Because it's a really powerful currency. It's not like any other currency. You can move the equivalent of a truck full of cash to Brazil in 20 minutes. So a lot of people don't understand that. When you say regulation, we want to bring regulation to it. You mean regulation in the sense of a government regulation. You mean just more a standard secure platform? Right, right. We definitely want to bring a lot of information to it. I think that's the biggest thing is Latin. A lot of people just don't understand what it is. The other thing is, the reason for the regulation and legislation of it is if we can clarify and we can put it in a positive light before it gets billified and looked at as exclusively a tool for money laundering or anything like that. You know, stay one step ahead of it. It's a good law before they put out a bad law that may lose money. And legislation, you're talking about U.S. lake laws? Exactly, exactly. They're going to make some losses since they're already talking about it. I haven't had a lot of time to research it, but Bruce, who's selling your article, did you hear the Senator Schumer? There were two senators, both Democrats, I forgot their names. Did you see it? I'm going to read too much into it, but there's two senators. It's a piece of silk road, which is, if anybody hasn't heard of it, it's basically a board where people get together and contraband anything that would be considered illegal is usually created through there. And just like cash, you can do the same thing with Bitcoin. They're targeting Bitcoin specifically because it facilitates it. It's kind of a combination of the media's tendency to love hysteria and of course the government having an opportunity now to pin the dirt on this new thing that they don't like. I mean, I don't know how much of that's going on, but for sure the media loves to talk about the heroin store where you can buy guns and arms and whatever. Obviously cash is used in crime and we don't outlaw cash. Cars are used as getaway cars and we don't outlaw cars. It's just absurd. So we have to make sure that the public is educated by us before they get too tainted and they start calling it silk road money. We want to make sure that the word gets out that no, that's not what it is. Exactly. And I think that there's ambiguity there with the anonymity. People think that it's completely anonymous when in reality it's not completely. I say it's as anonymous as cash in some ways. It can be as anonymous as cash. You can get into the technical aspects of it to the end, but it's basically like pseudonym anonymous. It's not really anonymous. You can forensically track it back. Obviously just like cash there are ways to launder Bitcoin the same ways, not the same ways, but similar to the ways you can launder cash. But it's not completely anonymous, but it's as anonymous as email if not more. Not that anonymous. If you want to use it, if you want to keep better records with it, you can. I mean if you have a bar, it's an apple, and you deal mostly in cash, the government's not going to be able to track it at all. I mean they're going to estimate and everything. But if you dealt in Bitcoin, they could say, okay this is your Bitcoin address, everyone pays you here. I mean these are the records. And they would know how much you made down in the penny. Obviously there's ways around that too. I was going to say. I've already heard it proposed by developers that are working on point of sale systems where they literally have a stack, like a notepad, where they tear off QR code so that every customer gets a different QR code. They literally scan it, send the Bitcoin to that address, tear it off and throw it in the wastebasket. The whole entire stack eat up 5,000 addresses, and they're one use throw away, you know, tear off the pad, scan the next one. And every time a customer comes through, they tear off the pad. So there are a lot of ways, obviously you could do that electronically too with a display. But there are a lot of ways to make every single transaction unique. And you can sort of anonymize it. I mean as much or as little as you need for your purposes. How would that work for a regulation though? Because if you're tracking how many Bitcoins are being used, you need to know the value against the US dollar at that specific time. Since it's so volatile right now, that must be a huge headache. Yeah, can you imagine? You'll be taxed on the purchase value at the time you purchased it or a year later. The way Bitcoin is going, man, that Starbucks is going to cost you. You made $5 profit and you're going to pay a million dollars in tax. That was the very first transaction or something? How much is that today? $200,000 pizza, better been good. I think that's around $30,000 for that pizza or even more? Speaking of, I've got to say this. Speaking of the sidebar about like nostalgia, because we're already talking about the history of Bitcoin. I was telling it, we bought these, you know, the Bitbills that you've seen those. I bought some because I thought that it would be really good. Well, I want to be the first kid on the block to have one first. I was thinking if they just continue those, because they'd be like, what is that? Like it's a $5,000 bill now. Like one card, it's a lot of money. So I was telling Ed, I'll bet you anything, someday this card will have numismatic value, because way back when they made a 200 Bitcoin card, you know? Because by then who knows what it would be worth. Like a million dollar bill. Can you imagine numismatic Bitcoin? Speaking of security, what are you guys doing for, as far as like securing the Bitcoins that you're transacting and exchanging? I mean everything's packed up in multiple locations and encrypted. We're being very careful. You've got a really good point. Everything changes with Bitcoin. I think in the future you might have people robbing data centers like you used to rob banks. Yeah, wow. You can steal someone's computer that has 10,000 Bitcoins on it, which is what, $3 million? $300? Yeah, notice. Anyway, it works. We can't think without a calculator. Anyways, you can use that somebody's laptop and it might have $30,000 of the Bitcoins on it. And you wouldn't know. Or somebody might break into a data center where the Bitcoins would be stored, steal a server or just hack in. That's going to need... Yeah, I think there's going to be a whole new breed of viruses that are designed just to steal your wallet. I haven't heard any reports of it yet, but you just know that's coming. Did you see the thread yesterday that I did before in the form about this poor guy? He was a technologist. He knew what he was doing, but maybe he was too tired or something, but he actually misinterpreted the technical way the Bitcoin client worked. If you leave the Bitcoin client open, certain things aren't going to be logged into the wallet, and that's where the discrepancy... That's what happened. So the story... I don't know if you heard this, Jared, that this guy, he created a Bitcoin wallet and then he backed it up and then he installed the app again and created another one. He called one savings, one checking. Then he backed it up and encrypted it and intracrypt all this stuff. And then he did a secure wipe of the file and accidentally lost... It was about the equivalent... Well, two days ago, it was like $145,000. Oh my... I wanted to cry. I don't even know the guy. I wanted to just... Oh my God. Yeah, he wrote on there and he's ready to jump off the window or something. Oh, you know, that's... It's funny, but it's not. That's probably going to happen. Because people... We've got to wrap our mind around the idea that it's not an email. It's not a spreadsheet. It's real money, any amount. It could absolutely... Your whole family's generations of life savings or something. What about hard drive fails or something like that? Hard drives fail. And most people really have no clue about how to do it. And this guy did know how to do it. It was a misinterpretation of how the client works, which obviously highlights the need for new generation of clients that have the wallet.app file encrypted from the start, encrypted and backed up and all the much more sophisticated ways to back it up and secure it. The first generation was really this whole thing is an experiment that just happened to succeed and go live, right? It's actually a way to protect against software key logging, but not hardware key logging. What is Trade Hill doing for that? As far as... Keyboard logging. Yeah, hardware keyboard logging. What are you doing about that? We've got machines that are completely isolated and we're not downloading anything that could cause any problems. If I've got a computer with $50,000 on it, I can definitely port another computer to go browse on the internet with and use that one by itself. So definitely that's a big step and just encryption, isolation, standard, a lot of backups. And how about... We've actually got a guy that specializes in that kind of thing. He'll probably give you better details, but at the same time, you probably wouldn't want to just because... Yeah, yeah. You can't expose the secrets. And how about... I think that's what you were talking about, the whole security thing is huge because one of my biggest fears with Bitcoin is people that have no idea how it works and no idea that they just get all the problems and it's stolen, they lose everything. They won't take care and when it does happen, they'll say, oh, Bitcoin sucks, it's stolen my money. Whereas, you know, you leave the wallet sitting around and when you come back and the money's gone, you don't go, oh, you know. You leave your wallet on the seat with a convertible top down. What do you expect? It's a new thing, though. People are not used to it. Yeah, they just don't know. It actually happens now with credit card fraud. People, they go online and then they order something and then they're forever to be turned from ever ordering online. It's because they just didn't follow secure computing practices. Right, right, right. It's not their fault, they're just ignorant to the fact. That's right, yeah. Except it's a thousand... exponentially more dangerous because it's not credit cards, it's not reversible. That's the thing about Bitcoin that it's just absolutely cashed. Once it's gone, it's gone. I mean, it's a whole different thing. It's just like... the internet itself. Somebody said, you know, so it's really the most powerful new technology since the invention of the internet itself. I really believe that. Disruptive technology? Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to ask also, Jared, about like what have you guys done to protect your site from DNS attacks? Because that... D-E-O-S. D-E-O-S. D-E-D-O-S. Distributed Denial of Service. D-E-D-O-S, yeah. Once you get security done, that's enough. We're doing a lot of testing, spoken with several different DNS's in the sweat form. That... it's more in that we've been some guys to run tests, and then do their own internal testing, and it's looking pretty good on the D-E-O-S. Okay, another big question. The biggest thing is, state vigilance, you know, you're on top of it. Constantly testing, we have other machines for development, you know, reporting things for weeks. And basically, just don't put it out there if we're not confident. Like you said, this is something I think very serious. So you're capable of doing thousands of transactions at a time, or with this kind of system that you have set up? Yeah, I mean, it can scale it out. If you train a lot, it should be... Actually, I think we've received 10,000 transfer end just starting doing this. We can scale it out. It's like, I can just just crank it up. And is it designed like to store your bitcoins there? Or it's really more like an exchange where I go there to exchange and then I store them somewhere else? Have you done anything? Well, I mean, we don't really have problems if you put them there, but that's not the... I would say store them or something you can use them. So you can trade if you want to do j-cracking or, you know, anything like that. But obviously, when we have a higher risk, in case something goes wrong, it's just kind of on how confident you are, and yourself, mostly. I used to keep a fair amount into stocks, and I said, hey, they're probably on their own until I understand how the system works when it was new. Now I understand the system, but I don't have it back up and I don't have it encrypted. I don't have to do all this stuff. So now I'm confident I'll have to keep it in my own theater, in my own backwards. I've got a million more questions I know we all do. Yeah. But I want to take just a break, really quick to thank, again, our sponsors who are bringing this show to you today. Yes, thank you. Bitcoin Bonus is a site. It's called bitcoinbonus.com. Have you heard of that, Jared? Yeah, I have, actually. Yeah. And I, you know, they signed up after our first episode and said, we want to sponsor the Bitcoin show in English and Spanish. We're all about Bitcoin, obviously. But then the next day, I got an email from somebody a completely different random person who was telling me about this thing because he loves it. He, bitcoinbonus.com is the site. You go there and you, any shopping you're going to do online, whether you're shopping for web hosting or purchases of any kind, he's got like hundreds and hundreds of links. And you, all you do is use their affiliate link and make your purchase that you're going to make anyway and you get rewarded with Bitcoin. And this particular guy was like a website designer. And so he would sign up for hosting accounts like several times a week. And every time he'd sign up for a hosting account, he got 50 Bitcoin. And he's like thrilled. He's like, this is the best thing he's ever seen. Forget the Bitcoin faucet. This is like really the Bitcoin fire hydrant. So yeah, he loves it. Every time, every time you buy something, whether it's whatever, you know, all the different shopping sites Dr. Frugal will talk about. Yeah. How to save money. And big named stores too. It's not just little stores. Yeah. And hosting, probably the things that you're buying anyway. Yeah. Exactly. You just go there, just don't forget right before you buy it. Go there and... Cashback with Bitcoin. Exactly. Bitcoin back. Better than coupons for sure. Yeah. What could be better? Cashback. So anyway, check it out. Bitcoinbonus.com. And Darrell's awesome. He's the guy who started, well, he had the world's first meetup at meetup.com here in New York. But he started one right after that the next weekend in DC. And he's an awesome guy. So he's doing really well with that. And we're really happy. So anytime you're shopping online, go to Bitcoinbonus.com. Then also we want to thank ambivertcreative. And I'm going to spell it. It's A-M-B-I-V-E-R-T creative.com. Ambivertcreative.com. And what this outfit does is they say, we design your identity in web, print, and logos. Like your logo, your entire website, images, stationery, everything. From beginning to end. So they pull it all together with a real corporate identity so that you look really professional to have a corporate image. From bottom to top. I mean, if you go to their webpage, you'll see some of the examples of what they're doing. And it's very slick, modern, very, very high tech. It's great. Exactly. Yeah. And that's going to be hit. We have a show called Builder Brand too, which is exactly about marketing and promotion and things like that. But it's very, very important. Everybody knows. You have to have a really, you know, sleek professional, you know, corporate image that looks like, you know, it doesn't look like you just made it yourself, homemade, something that looks slick. So they're really pros. And you know, if you're starting a business, you don't have time usually to do all that yourself or maybe not the skills. You know, they just- Or the creativity. Exactly. Just give it to them and they do really, really good work. Everything for, like I said, your logos, your stationery, your print, your brochures, your website, everything. Product design, everything. Colors, everything, make it really, yeah, that's right, do labeling. Like there were some product prototypes where they did labeling for beverages. And different forms of bottles for these beverages. You've got to see it. It's great. And they accept Bitcoin. Of course, they're a Bitcoin merchant. They're very creative. A-M-B-I-V-E-R-T creative.com. And, finally, last but not least, tradehill.com, instant Bitcoin exchange. Obviously, we're interviewing Jared. You can do your own commercial. But, tradehill, by the way, I will mention that you have to correct me if I'm wrong because I'm learning all this too. But it's something like 20 some currencies. How many currencies are there that you're accepting now? I don't know. Let's see. Right now we've got eight right now. Eight. But we're going to have we're going to give out 25 in the next session. 25 currencies in the next week or two. So, it doesn't matter where you are, whether it's Russian Ruples or Mexican pesos, you're going to cover the globe. And we're going to basically convert all... We're looking for partners. We're looking for other established businesses around the world that would like to participate with us. We've got a partner group. And I think it's something a lot of people would be interested in. And hopefully we can be in 15 or 100 countries within a month. So, the main benefits of tradehill.com over the existing options are the so many different currencies and also so many different ways to get your money in like instantly today. You can do a bank wire transfer if you're in the US, a domestic wire transfer like today. Get it in there immediately. Like by the time this show's over, your money can be in there and credited and you're buying bitcoins like now in all these different currencies, no matter where you are in the globe and the fees are less than competitors. What else? Oh, you were telling me, can I disclose what you were telling me about what you can do with your bitcoins after you? Yeah, actually tell you what, let me... That sounds good. I think I know what you're talking about. So yeah, like Bruce said you can deposit with domestic or international wire transfers. We accept wallet which I like wallet. I mean, it's a little slow sometimes. I think that's going to speed up though. Yeah. But you can't be price. Twenty-five cents. Twenty-five cents. The banks are really ripping us off and targeting anywhere between $30. By the way, by the way, I don't interrupt you, but I want to tell you this, the the dwell of people called me when I created my account the first day. They're probably too busy to call people now, but they welcomed me to it. And one of the things that they told me was very RSN, as we say, real soon now, they're going to have this new technology called FISYNC. And as soon as they get the banks all tied in with the FISYNC, which is supposed to be like real soon, then it will work the same exact way it does now. Twenty-five cents, no more bank wiring. So now the problem, if you have money in while, great, it's instantaneous. But if you don't, it's going to take you several days to get it through. But with this instantaneous thing, wow, that's going to be slick. Exactly, that's going to be huge. So we're offering a few of things like Liberty Reserve and then desperate deposits. For withdrawals, we have a lot more options. I like to play video games. I know a lot of people use bitcoins, play video games. So we're offering options to withdrawals and game cards. You can play Warcraft, AirQuest, any of those games. A&R, BIF, whatever, you can withdraw that. Also, there's the ultimate game card which has like a thousand games on it. You can withdraw that as well. I don't play Farmville, but I know quite a few people do. If you want to cash out the Farmville account, well, you'll get going to Farmville. It's a fine day. But also, accepting donations, not to us, of course, for the profit, but I think the EFF is going to be huge because Bitcoin is not going to just be accept. There's going to be people opposed to a variety of reasons. I think the EFF is going to be huge in the pipeline of Bitcoin. I think there's a lot of people that have already donated to the EFF with Bitcoin. Also, there's a lot of people that are suddenly very rich and they're not going to have a problem cashed out 10 or 20 or 100 Bitcoins. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure I have, I'm just a journalist. Yeah. So anyway, you can send Bitcoins to us, sell them on the exchange and then transfer the EFF and then transfer the dollars to the EFF for the red frost. Those are the two that we're currently offering. It's kind of an experiment. I think it's going to work out. I've seen, I was involved with the Bitcoin community when disaster in Japan hit was it three months ago? Yeah. There was a lot of people instantly that just said, hey, but how do we give money to Japan? How do we give money to Japan? So we want to be there, we want to be a legitimate way to do that. Obviously with Bitcoin like we talked about earlier with the transference you can be sure that your money is going to the red frost. Yeah. Or to the EFF. You can see us change the money over and you can see your block allocated and everything. So you don't have to worry that we're going to just say we're donating and then pocketing it. You know, I don't know if you heard this, but the EFF recently stopped accepting donations via Bitcoin. They said they're going to do an evaluation and I think their attorneys and they're doing their due diligence. I think they're doing the right thing to really analyze it through and through which actually is good for all of us that they do that before they, you know, so they've stopped at least temporarily suspended donations via Bitcoin because the EFF is so important what they're doing. Their work is so important that's great because we can still donate via Bitcoin. You know, if we go to Trade Hill and donate that way we know it's going to get there even if they don't accept Bitcoin directly. Exactly. Yeah, that's right. They're going to get it. They don't have a choice. That's right. That's great. Also, iTunes gift cards. So if you want to buy $100 on iTunes we can just instantly email you. Now the big one that's I think has a lot of people excited is we have the option to purchase on amazon.com through us. So it's actually incredibly simple. This is also an experiment. If it works well which I think it will will expand. Basically go to amazon.com you have to have an account and then you make a wish list which is pretty simple. Find some products you like click add to wish list and then once you have a wish list you can take it public so there's a button public and then there's a link to your wish list. So you copy that you go back to our site you go to Winfraught Bitcoins choose on that I'm not purchased I believe and then you paste that in the block bottom you put your address and then you put your Bitcoins and then you hit the button and then within four hours your order is processed and whatever you bought is on there it's going forward. How many hours? That's not good. You broke up just a little within how many hours? Twenty more. So basically it's Amazon except Bitcoins now through Trade Hill. They don't have a choice. That's great. Can you do that for every website on the internet? We'll work on it. Like I too. What are you saying 24 hours on a lot of these things? That's basically to make sure we have time. By now a lot of being done that way just to make sure it's secure to save and also there's a lot of coding for all the making on that. So right now a lot of that's being done manually. The good thing is we're sitting there fitting and you see Amazon.com will come in and pop on it I'll transfer all the information and there you go. It could be out in 20 minutes. That's great. Are you planning to add other shopping sites to that list? Definitely. Baiting eBay. A little scared eBay to cats. Wanted to buy some of eBay. I don't want to do that. But definitely a site that you pay I would drag up on the most certainly the biggest and easiest to handle. Those sites for computer parts should really be popular for all the miners. This way they can take the Bitcoin that they're earning through mining and buy a better mining. Buy a better mining gear. Yeah, exactly. All those. Definitely the computers and electronics. I don't I'm not a fan of eBay and especially not PayPal but it would be ironic if they benefit from this. Yeah, that's definitely true. But I think they have pensions and HHS Yeah. Way back when We don't mind. Exactly. Frankenstein. The I was going to ask you I forgot. Well I know that we said it's instant like sort of like trading. I did see an option when I did briefly go in there like instantly cash out or instantly like buy Bitcoin. Oh yeah. How does that work? That's a new feature, right? Yeah, that's a feature not really big. I think it's going to be huge. Instant buy, instant sell, right? Exactly. What it's really used for is people that don't get involved in a bid or an act or a lot of bid and ask yes. They simply say I want to buy 20 Bitcoins. How much is it going to cost? Make it fun and make it fun. They like it except and then trade is done 20 Bitcoins in their account which they can transfer out. Currently it only works you need to put not a Bitcoins you want and it tells you you don't want to buy it. We're going to have it soon so you can say I have a thousand dollars how many Bitcoins can I buy? Who was it that suggested that improvement? Come on, you got to give me credit. Yeah. Okay, good, good. Yeah. All that was probably about why people suggested it. Oh yeah. Okay. You made me feel good. You made me I just wanted to look at it and say okay. This needs changed. Yeah. Your business mindset you said it's different. Yeah. That's because everybody all day long they say I want to buy a thousand dollars worth. They don't think a thousand Bitcoins worth they think a thousand dollars worth because we always were trained to think in dollars so. I've been living in Chile for three years and I still need dollars for this. Yeah. Cool. It enters when you spend dollars on Bitcoins because it changes the past. I know. But you can't Yeah. I know Bitbills was like you know something like 30 bit cents for you know premium for the card for one Bitcoin card. They everybody every merchant has to constantly be lowering their prices. You know because the value keeps going up they got to quickly lower their prices. Especially today. Somehow I think that there's got to have to be somebody's got to create an API where it's tied to the to the value of Bitcoin so that the price is just fluid like it's fluid Yeah. Some people have made some scripts and whatnot so you can you can put your price in dollar and then there you go. A lot of them play in Bitcoin based on I believe the last transaction on and you got us. I just remembered speaking of that that's what an important question I've been meaning to ask and I wanted to save it for the show and that is because we start talking and we can't shut up and we're like we got to tape this to make a show but this is a question I haven't asked you. I think what do you all think is going to happen to the price the Bitcoin price with a new market opening up that has so many more features than Mt. Gox. It's you know it's if everybody floods over to this new one there's going to be an equilibrium you know a balancing act of people moving what do you think is going to happen to the price of Bitcoin over the next 48 hours because of this. I think regardless of what happens with Bitcoin to go up but I think I think we're going to help it go up and we're going to increase the speed that it goes up because transactions can happen faster you can put your money in quicker and pull it out quicker so if you look at a lot of the big press kits as Bitcoin has got there's been a lack between if you look at the Google searches that are done for Bitcoin every time the volume searches go up it lies a little bit behind the point of value because a lot of people they're taking three days or five days or a week to buy the Bitcoin part of that is just the knowledge diffusion you know they hear about it they go I don't know if this will really work I don't want to lose my money and then they go man if I would buy it last week I would have done plenty money and then they say follow me I'm going to put my money in and then they go oh man I'm going to open this mall account I'm going to verify I'm not going to send that money in they'll send the price triple than yet so I believe the more exchanges and the faster the exchanges are the quicker the prices going to go up somebody sell a whole bunch on Monday for ten dollars and then now buying them back for like almost thirty I mean it just happens over and over and yeah it's liquidity liquidity is going to make it more a better utility so that's always good for it I think it's I think you're right well now with the trade opening up how do you think this is going to affect our ability to measure the price of Bitcoin are we going to have to sort of check two places or three places and then sort of extrapolate that together into one single price how's that going to affect because at Mt. Gods it might be thirty dollars and that trade hill might be forty dollars well we've already solved that problem by the way Jared I haven't told you this but our meetup we have here we hosted right here it only went to TV every Saturday we have a hack well we actually have three we have a hackathon a promotathon and then a legal think tank all about Bitcoin but the hackathon got you know like the de facto team lead of the hackathon he's what he's a beast he's a beast yeah he is so he was here actually you talked to him when we were talking originally so he's been in on this this secret of trade hill launch and we were talking about it and he's come up with an idea of taking you know like the top several exchange sites and then taking the value and then weighting it by the volume so the site value weighted by the volume and then coming up with an average so a whole other thing that he's talking about just a simple little website super super simple that takes that information and compiles it then that also plays very well into the whole concept of Bitcoin because Bitcoin derises value like any theater currency from a hard trust in it so it would take the Bitcoin community to trust that kind of doing it so the more they trust that trade that exchange site the more weighted that price will be as far as what the real value is it's an interesting concept it'll be interesting though to see what happens and then you've got you know like with these there's so many different currencies you know if you have what X number of eight currencies or whatever right now and you're going to have many many more I wonder if people are going to use it like forex I see that the Chile and whatever it is Chile and Peso or what is it yeah Chile and Peso right I mean like if it's like undervalued for Bitcoin you know what I mean they're going to buy them in dollars or buy with dollars and then sell them back and in and out and like to to keep the equilibrium among all the currencies yeah I mean when you start talking about forex there's a lot of information you get to and I'm a good point you could there's going to be a lot of arbitrage between different currencies and I think there's going to be a lot of money to be made there I think the situation and I could be wrong but I think the situation is kind of going to take care of itself because anytime there's a potential for a lot of profit people with a lot of money are going to come in and they're going to lock in these prices and they're going to take advantage of that little difference and then the more people that are selling on both of them or all three of them or all eight of them so I think people are going to realize how much money can be made there and we've already talked with some they want to remain anonymous now but when you hear about them if you're into the finance and the quant all that stuff you're going to say ah this is a pretty serious company but they're going to handle that so there's going to be some people that are a lot smarter than us and we're pretty smart guys so they're going to definitely take care of that but there's going to be a lot of money being made in what about automated trading like robots and things I know that like Mt. Gox before they had a fee like originally they had no fee and there was a lot of robot automated trading so there's kind of two questions one I mean do you think that like how much of that do you think is going to exist because obviously trade is going to charge a fee although it will be less than the other exchange sites and also we've got a 0.6 percent on the price but we have a lot of discounts and things like that also I'm pretty sure we're going to see an exchange war before too long and those fees are going to drop quick really specifically on Bitcoin 0.6 is not good you know how are you going to complain about 0.6 when it's gone up you know 2,000% less too much more and then when you compare to things like PayPal it's great you know what's 0.6 compared to 3% or whatever PayPal charges you think I remember right but on the currency exchange world in high volume 0.6 is really high so I think we're going to see it drop a lot but by that time the volume will be so high exchange will still be profitable and people will tend to continue and then we'll be partying on your yacht your yacht well, a communal yacht it'll be the communal Bitcoin community yacht it'll be a free open source yacht I have a two-part question myself tell us the fastest and easiest way to get US dollars to Bitcoin and also keep in mind the second part is how do you navigate through is it the same route that you take if you have euros or Rupals or whatever it definitely depends on the currency for example here in Chile I can go online and I can do a transfer to any bank free out of my personal account instantly in that respect the United States is really far behind for everyone I can do the same thing a lot of the world you can do online instant free transfers to any bank in the country so for South America that's going to be the case it's great in Chile you could fund it you could fund your account already just like that the euro it's going to be really similar because within the EU you can transfer money online unfortunately Docker is the one that's real pain which one of the reasons that Bitcoin is so popular I think the easiest way is to just do a wire because most people who are buying Bitcoin are not buying $10 $15 worth and they're not making deposits for 10 and 15 if you're going to deposit $2,000 or $5,000 or even even $500 then just do the wire transfer if you're with IG Direct which I'm definitely not paid by them but I would highly recommend them I'm really happy with their services I think they're a great bank they even buy a free incoming and now it's going to wire transfers so I would highly recommend and actually there's a way to get a referral code you know what I should be using the referral code yeah you should get it to me I'm going to get IG they'll be a sponsor soon and I think Bitcoin is going to cause them to grow not like Wallach not like Bitcoin Wallach but also with HSBC we have an HSBC account we use for international transfers so you have an HSBC or IG Direct account it's going to be fast we would like to set PayPal just because of the simplicity and speed and how many people have PayPal right but one we don't really like PayPal and two they have been shutting down people's accounts and with Bitcoin exactly they don't fall under banking regulations they won that and I mean they've closed my account and seized all my money twice they're just like you Google PayPal you'll see how many sites are saying PayPal is evil PayPal is scam and all that so you could I would say you know if you want to accept PayPal make sure that you allow six months for it to clear because they can reverse the transactions within six months you know it's just ridiculous it's not cash you can't buy cash with a credit card anyway anywhere else I mean unless you go what I say is you can buy Bitcoin with a credit card just go to the bank and it's called a cash advance now you have cash you know by the way I wanted to say this about the cost of wire transfers I mean that's like 40 bucks here and 38.50 on their end it's like 75-80 bucks but it was absolutely worth it and we did the math because you put it in the duala it was taking an average about six calendar days which is not good when the thing is doubling so fast we did the math and figured out that over the even in just the last few weeks the way it has grown that it only took $55 for it to be cost justified to pay $80 in wire transfer fees at the way it's growing so forget the cost of the wire transfer just get your money there as fast as possible duala's great if you already have money in there but who does you know so I think that's another kind of interesting little sidebar we're saying if I were in the boardroom of duala right now I'd be saying this is a real love-hate relationship here first of all there are probably more transactions going to buy bitcoin than all the other duala transactions combined which is kind of weird because bitcoin is going to be like the competitor that might who knows who knows it is a different thing so there's that and then the other thing is that you know all of those people who bought bitcoin through duala will buy them exactly once until they figure out that it takes six days or until they get that fiscink on the other hand when they get the fiscink thing this could be a godsend for everybody in bitcoin because we can with no matter where you bank you can get it there you know instantly for 25 cents day trading day trading yeah I don't recommend that though you're going to do that go to vegas I always say free drinks and dancing girls if you're going to do that one of my friends is a microsoft millionaire one of the original microsoft millionaires and it's like a drug it's just absolutely gambling so I don't recommend it but but yeah buying bitcoins instantly that's really going to help exactly and I think I think when walla does I think that's awesome I think it's great I think that the US banking system needs I think to me it's embarrassing you know when I tell people in shilliam they say oh just log in your US account and send some money in your bank sorry I can't do that right they say you know and I look at shilliam I love shilliam it's not a third world country and shilliam is doing good you know but the US should be ahead with shilliam banking you know I mean it's something wrong here I don't know what the reason is I don't know they don't want it to go faster it's just greed it's greed and you know they sort of everybody's in cahoots together so it's always right monopolies greed greed greed yeah it's not that we need some technology no it's just greed it's a financial thing it's also a political thing yeah and that's where the political, financial corporatology controlling government and all you know that I mean yeah thank God for the internet and so many levels so many levels thank God for the internet for educating every 20 year old knows more than you know than the 50 and 60 year olds old will ever know about how this stuff really works just from google video you know learn about this stuff it's like really reaching a tipping point in our culture that that everybody kids are educating their parents and I don't know how many times this week I've heard people around me and you know calling their parents saying listen mom and dad you've got to trust me just trust me on this buy bitcoin no it's not a stock you know and it's kind of crazy but you're there so many people and they're you know it's amazing they're convincing their parents and you know whatever now that it's in Forbes you know smart money did an article this morning and that was a great article yeah CBS news had a video blog recently I just I just discovered and but there's so many so many things happening so fast it's really really hitting a mainstream media you know yeah frenzy well we've trained him now it's going to lower sort of the entry to get into the actual exactly exchanging bitcoin for US dollars and see it is so that alone itself it's going to allow I'm sure there's been a demand and that demand couldn't be fulfilled because of the barriers involved and so hopefully I've knocked down some barriers and the value increase because of that exactly we've run out of time and I still have a hundred million questions I want to say that you know thank you Jared so much for joining us we're just going to continue this for another hour in Spanish we have decided the other day the Bitcoin show is going to be starting today a daily show every day Monday through Friday so thank you Jared and thank you thank you guys you know one thing we didn't mention the referral program I just realized I don't know that referral which I think a lot of people are going to concentrate on because of this I don't know you got a referral code right you've got it there TH- TH- R- R- 1- 4- 1 TH- R- 1- 4-1 got it okay so type that in when you go to tradehill.com type in the referral code TH- R what is it R- 1- 4-1 you'll get 5% off for life so there you go there's your gift from tradehill it opens the account it has a referral code so feel free to hand it out tell people about tradehill spread the word and then you can earn a part of the commission's generator from people you recruit it's like the ultimate ultimate multi-level marketing system and Uncle Bernie Madoff is going to be so happy that we only have to sign up three more people and we get a toaster oven but no seriously you're going to love it because you refer your friends but you're going to do anyway and then you're going to get paid it's brilliant does that actually like go into like deeper levels like if I refer somebody and they refer somebody do I get it? R- how many levels deep does that go? R- yeah no we've actually been talking about that we're probably going to implement that we see we see both sides of it I mean we like the idea but on the other hand it kind of has almost a policy look to it R- yeah R- but it's it's legit you know what you're definitely not on this game we're definitely going to research and some more and see about implementing that but we like the idea and um R- one level deep is still a quantum leap so we got to go we're out of time R- great R- we'll see you all tomorrow R- great job over there R- two p.m. R- see you live tomorrow R- thanks for joining us R- thank you R-