 Oh, we are live, live, live on video. Welcome to our video, video watchers. What are we going to ask, Jenny? Sorry, do you want me to tell you if anyone else joins or comes out saying they're going to file an Amic State Court? Oh, yeah. No, if there's anything else significant for sure. If we haven't got to that paragraph, just add it. Yeah. I kind of feel like everybody will, and so therefore we've gotten the three main ones. Does that make sense? I'll have the daily channel open in the Slack, too. Okay, thanks. That's where I'll put it. Good. Yeah, it feels like all the hot takes are out. Yeah. And now it's, you know, we'll get another spate of analysis in like an hour or two. All right, well, then I better start with you. Boundless interpretation. Yes. Boundless interpretation is the drummer for Glorious Expletive, I think. That's right. I'll stop looking at pictures. Okay, folks, just to give you a heads up, exclusive to the people in the treasure chest and on video, we won't be talking about the iPad rumor. Oh, maybe I will now. Who knows? Oh, that happens when I reboot my machine. Audio hijack doesn't come back automatically. Right, Ro. Uh-oh. That could be a problem. It's not there. What? Hold on. Everything's fine. Everything's just fine. That's unfortunate. Yeah. Give me one second, please, everybody. You guys can talk amongst yourselves. I'm talking amongst myself. All right. Snap. Let's go. Snapchat. Oh, I'm going to do a little test here. Can I hear everyone? Can I get a witness? Can you? All right. Little technical difficulties there for a moment. Let me just double-check one more thing. Oh, yeah. Okay, we're all good. We're all fine here. We're all good. There's nothing to see. We're fine. Here we go. All right. We're sorry. This pay phone does not accept coins for long-distance calls. You may wish to consider using your nickel to support the Daily Tech News Show by going to DailyTechNewsShow.com slash support. That's DailyTechNewsShow.com slash support. This is the Daily Apple Encryption Fight News Show for Thursday, February 25, 2015, 2016. I'm Tom Merritt. Joining me today, Mr. Justin Robert Young. How the heck are you? Oh, I'm coming to you, but a scant of 23 miles from ground zero of the Apple Encryption Fight with the FBI. How is it feeling there, Justin? The winds of encryption fight have blown through a tussled head of Silicon Valley. I hear you. I hear you. We've got lots to tell you. Apple did file their motion in response to the court order. We're also going to talk about the fact that the Chicago Public School System is requiring their high school students to take a computer science course before graduating. So we've got lots to get to. Let's start with the headlines. Apple filed a motion to vacate the court order requiring it to assist the FBI in cracking the passcode of an iPhone 5C. Cyrus Faravar at Ars Technica reports that Apple said in a conference call that the FBI wanted a government OS, that was their words, and that Apple would have to build a, quote, FBI forensics lab, unquote, at its headquarters. Apple's filing denies that the All Rits Act provides a basis to, quote, conscript Apple to create software enabling the government to hack into phones. It also argues the order would violate the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment protections on due process. That's the clause that says not about search and seizure, but about being free of arbitrary deprivation of liberty. Meanwhile, Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam expressed support for strong encryption with no back doors and Microsoft President and Chief Legal Officer Brad Smith told Congress Thursday that his company will file an amicus brief in support of Apple in the San Bernardino case. The Wall Street Journal reports Facebook, Twitter, and Google will do the same. Bandwagon's getting bigger. US FBI Director James Comey told the US House Intelligence Committee today, this is the hardest question I have seen in government and it's going to require negotiation and conversation. He said Congress should decide the issue. So I assume the FBI will be dropping the case shortly. Tim Cook told ABC he believes the dispute is about safety since phones carry more information about you than any other device ever has. He also believes that Congress should decide the issue. So there you go. Congress has taken the first step as well. The US House Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing at 1 p.m. Eastern Time March 1st scheduled to testify our Apple General Counsel Bruce Sewell, FBI Director James Comey, New York District Attorney Cyrus Vance, there's that New York court case we heard about earlier this week, and encryption specialist Susan Landau. She's a former privacy analyst at Google. She worked at Sun Microsystems on security and she's now a professor at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. And finally, the New York Times reports that sources tell it Apple was working on strengthening security of its phones even before the FBI case. Apple currently allows firmware to be pushed to a device without requiring a user password as a troubleshooting mechanism. Wired's Brian Barrett reported former lead developer at a secure messaging app Signal announced that he will spend the summer working with the core OS security team at Apple. So big stuff, big stuff happening in this case today. You've got the heavy weights of tech coming in on Apple's side definitively for sure. You have Apple filing the motion doing what we expected. And you had heard rumors, well, we're going to do First Amendment, we're going to do Fifth Amendment. They did both. They said you can't compel us to speak. You can't deprive us of our property and liberty. They line out in the filing just how much effort it would be to create this operating system to do quality assurance testing on it. And they talk about how the FBI is going to require certain protocols to be tested with this operating system before it can be admitted into court. So they line out a very good case of there is a lot of work that you're making us do. You're making us create something and we think that's a burden. And that's what they have to show. That's the three-part test the Supreme Court said you have to show to have the All Rits Act apply, which is you have to be related to the case, which Apple says it's not. Like we made the phone, but that is the end of it. It has to not be burdensome and Apple's trying to show it's burdensome. You have to wonder if you're the FBI. How far this can get when the news is about the idea of whether or not that Apple should be forced to do this and not this is about the San Bernardino case that involved an act of terrorism on American soil. How far we can get away from that idea and have the FBI still want to play this game in the way that they're playing it right now. And that is, you know, in the court of public opinion, that is the battle, which is Apple has been trying to say this isn't about terrorism. And so when they give their ABC interview, Tim Cook wisely points out a real safety issue, which is, hey, we want to protect your devices and your devices have your whole lives in them. It does distract from the issue of the FBI is essentially saying we just want you to make it for this one phone. And I think what the filing shows is Apple saying, hey, you know what, that's a lot of work to make it for just that one phone. And of course, there's discussions we've had at Nazium about when you're dealing with software, when you're dealing with digital items, making it once is almost impossible because things are so infinitely copyable and it's so easy for things to leak out. But this is, and we'll see, right? Because, you know, there's another presidential debate tonight. We'll see whether or not it is mentioned and brought up. It'll be mentioned, I'm sure, yeah. It certainly will, but who knows whether or not it sticks. I mean, this seems politically to have had about a 24-hour life cycle that it mixed in with all the other lunacy that's gone on so far. This presidential cycle where people are getting in fights with the Pope and all that, so it seems to have drifted from, I think, where the FBI wants this conversation to be, which is why won't this company help us solve this terrorism case and has gone more to where Apple wants it to be, which is look at exactly what they're asking us to do. Look at, let's have Congress talk about it because Congress is something for which is more of a public spectacle, is something where the people who are deciding these issues have to be reliant upon their electorate to put them back in office so they don't want to do anything publicly super unpopular. And, you know, Apple seems to be winning the messaging of this conversation as we see it developed right now. They might, they haven't been winning it. They might be winning it today, it's hard to say. But the thing that is interesting about this is who wins the public conversation doesn't matter at all to the court case. And the court case will continue. It will be appealed depending on what Justice Pym decides in response to Apple's motion to vacate. The other side will appeal, whoever loses. It will go to the Supreme Court. It will be a long fight. Now what may happen at the Supreme Court is if a congressional move to create legislation to address this is underway, the Supreme Court may defer, they may decide not to hear a case or they may hear the case and rule based on the idea that the Congress should decide this. And they have made those kinds of rulings before. This is going to be fought out in Congress. Both when James Comey is saying we should have Congress decide that's where this is going to be and that's why you're having all of this positioning about who should allow what. And I think the FBI's case that, hey, we've got this one phone from this one person that everyone agrees should be investigated is going to get muddled over time. And the nature of this debate is going to change. And I guess that's my thought is the more this, the further this gets away from crime, a visceral crime that we want solved, the more it drifts into the esoteric of what this is, what a company should be forced to do, the burden it puts upon them. That's where Apple wants this conversation to go. And apparently the FBI does too because they must think we can get people on our side because they want to be safe from terrorists. But that's the thing, is they need the danger. The danger for the FBI needs to stay front and center and Apple wants this to be about freedom with a capital F and the rest is boring because nobody really wants to listen to except for the very smart people who listen to this podcast. The general public doesn't want to listen to exactly how much they would have to invest in the forensics to backdoor their own system. And I think the final point is that note about Apple potentially and certainly hiring the guy from Signal is an indication they are doing this. They're going to lock down future iOS so they can't do anything about it. So there can't be a firmware update pushed. That's going to have some unforeseen side effects of people who forget their passwords and they can't have recovery efforts that they could have now. But all that said, that's less likely now. It just basically takes a couple of troubleshooting weapons away from Apple but I think Apple's willing to give that up at this point. I think they just want to kick that can so far down the road that they can't be asked to find it. Exactly. And that's what this case has done. It just pushed them in that direction. Sharp announced that it will accept Foxconn's bid to acquire 65.9% of the company in a deal worth about 700 billion yen. And then shortly after, Foxgut said it would delay signing the agreement after receiving a list of contingent liabilities from Sharp Wednesday worth 350 billion yen. Hey, we'll give you 700 billion yen. Great. Sign here. By the way, we owe people 300 billion yen. Hold on. It's kind of how that covers it. So I don't know. Maybe the Japanese consortium that's been trying to buy Sharp and keep it owned in Japan may still have a shot. UK's Ofcom Agency has advised BT it must further open its network to competitors after a review of management of the open reach network which connects British homes to telephone exchanges also connects them to the internet in most cases. BT will be required to let competitors use tunnels and poles to lay wires. So in other words, allow people to use the infrastructure available to build their own networks. Back in 2005, Ofcom required BT to open access to the network it owned thus allowing competing ISPs to run on this open reach network. Ofcom may even recommend that open reach become a subsidiary with its own board under BT to give it a little more independence and they haven't discounted the possibility of separating open reach from BT entirely. Look at that open reach. If you're not in Britain, it probably doesn't impact you directly but it's very much about unbundling and BT was the government run telephone company for a century practically and so the idea of we've unbundled it but they're still favoring their own products so the government's trying to figure out how to really encourage competition there. Which, by the way, is kind of the story of British owned utilities and companies that then denationalize. This is the same thing with British Airways. It's the same thing with many of their energy companies that through Thatcher were denationalized and yet those hard lines of loyalty just kind of still lay. It took British Airways years of antitrust lawsuits before they stopped acting like they were the de facto national airline. At the CP plus camera show in Japan, Huawei has announced they partnership with Leica. The press release says the companies plan to combine and I quote their shared ethos in a long-term commitment to the art of craftsmanship, meticulous engineering and the spirit of winning collaboration to create a powerhouse in the reinvention of smartphone photography Leica frequently partners with Panasonic. So now they're going to partner with Huawei. I love this press release though. Like somebody was allowed to get their poetry on. It really is. It elicits all the very visceral reaction that I first had when somebody who is a photography major in college explained to me how they make images and don't take pictures. The spirit of winning is going to happen with Huawei and Leica. And Leica is always considered like a high end. You put a Leica brand on something even if it's the same sensor and suddenly the price goes up. Samsung announced it's producing 256 gigabyte embedded chips with universal flash storage 2.0 standard. That means SATA-like read speeds of 850 megabytes per second, write speeds of 250 megabytes per second, and as Samsung ramps up for global demand, what it means for you if you haven't caught on to this already is a 256 gigabyte fast phone and tablet in your future. Man, that is blazing. Yeah, I'm a storage person. Not everybody cares about a lot of storage. I always want as much storage as possible. I need a 2TB drive now in my laptops. I mean, it's amazing how fast we fill it up, too. I mean, my phone personally, I'm constantly running up into the upper reaches of my onboard storage limitations. If you want a thicker phone, you could probably get 512 gigabytes, I'm just saying. Oh, damn. Wired reports that Jigsaw's Project Shield, which aims to protect news sites from DDoS attacks has come out in an invite-only beta. Any site not run by a government or political party is eligible. Domain names are pointed to a reverse proxy designed to filter malicious traffic and cache some elements that reduce load. Interested sites can get started at g.co-slash-shield, thanks to Mike Schnurth for submitting the story to the subreddit. Yeah, and it's coming out of invite-only beta. So now everybody can apply. You still need to get approval, but anybody can apply. They've been working in private with partners now. And there were a couple of guys talking in the chat room before the show just about how many DDoSs they've been dealing with, and they work for companies that provide service. It's a growing, growing problem, and the Wired article is fantastic here, by the way, describing how news sites who are trying to cover controversial locations often get DDoS'd by the side that doesn't want them to cover it. And so the coverage is useless because it doesn't get published, it doesn't get viewable anyway for maybe 24 to 48 hours because they're dealing with these DDoSs, and the sites that have participated in Project Shield say that they don't even worry about it anymore because they've got this protection. By the way, if you're like, what's jigsaw? Jigsaw is what used to be Google Ideas, so it's an alphabet company. I am taking the approach of calling these new companies what they are instead of calling them Google because they're not actually Google, which is a separate company under alphabet, but that's going to be confusing for a while until we get used to it. Yeah, alphabet, formerly known as Google, yet not Google, okay? Clear enough? Good. Mashable reports that Dr. Ralph Mobs, a neurosurgeon at the Prince of Wales hospital in Sydney, Australia, has successfully implanted the first 3D printed replacement for neck vertebra. Mobs worked with medical device company Anatomics to print models for practice surgeries, as well as the eventual titanium replacement. A patient suffered from a cancer called Cordoma that put pressure on his brainstem and would eventually have caused quadriplegia. Surgery is normally difficult because of the difficulty of rebuilding the vertebrae. I mean, also dealing with the brainstem is not easy either. But then once you've pulled the vertebrae apart to get at the tumor, they would have to harvest bone from other parts of the company and try to rebuild a successful vertebra. So this is revolutionary. Patients recovering with only the side effects of having to have surgery through his mouth, but they seem like otherwise he's doing great. Thanks to SB Sheridan for submitting the story on the subreddit. Better living through chemistry. Better living through 3D printing. Just amazing. Just great, great, great, great, great work. And a sign that this is a technology that is not only for making batarangs. And that's why we have our subreddit. So we can talk about stuff like this. Thank you folks. Get in there, submit, vote dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and that's a look at the headlines. Dr. Hadt, Captain Kipper for posting our main topic in the subreddit today. Chicago Public School Board of Education, which is the third largest school district in the United States has announced that the class of 2020, those are the freshmen that will be coming in this fall, will have to take one credit of computer science in order to be able to graduate from high school. This is part of Mayor Rahm Emanuel's five-year plan to make computer science a core subject. He started, kicked off this plan in 2013. The public school system in Chicago has also partnered with code.org Google, Microsoft, the Illinois Technology Foundation, the CME Group, also a bunch of colleges, DePaul, UIC, Loyola University, to bolster the resources and teacher training that will be needed to execute this. And there's other initiatives like this. Oakland's Unified School District is trying to make computer science accessible to all pre-kindergarten through 12 students by 2020. Mayor de Blasio in New York City announced that city public schools must offer computer science within 10 years. It's not a requirement to graduate, but he's trying to make it accessible to anybody who wants to take it. The problem is there ain't enough teachers. Some states don't even have certification programs for computer science. So how do we solve this? Because we are in a very, very weird place in this country when it comes to education. Not only do we have soaring students, we have more and more people that are going to college, and yet kind of fewer people that seem to be at least satisfied with the purpose that college serves for them, even if it comes to a noble cause like teaching. And yet meanwhile, what we're looking at here is, hey, before people get to higher education, let's make it a requirement that they have to have something that would be very important in any line of work, which is basic computer skills. But I think that you've hit on the initial failure point, which is computer science with very few exceptions seems to be something that is an add-on for teachers, that you can also teach a computer class along with something else as opposed to making it something specialized, like let's say a foreign language or history or math or something like that. Yeah, Ian in the chat room says, I'd rather computer science be integrated into the math program, and that kind of makes sense. It is definitely part of a mathematical discipline in a great sense. But you still need someone who knows computer science to teach computer science. In fact, in this New York Times article about this that I read, or actually I might have been a tech crunch article, I can't remember now, they're talking about a social studies teacher who got assigned to teach computer science because he just happened to know computers. Now that works out sometimes because the person does know what they're doing, but if you're going to start requiring it to graduate you're going to need more than the 10,000 teachers that the National Science Foundation has said it plans to train to cover, you know, more than just Chicago. So the question becomes, should this be, as Ian says, like, well, it should just be part of math. Like, you can choose to take algebra, you can choose to take computer science, whatever, or is computer science more like home economics, more like something where it's like, this is a life skill. This isn't just about learning programming, this is about learning how the world works. I can see different kinds of classes being taught, too. Like, there's computer programming, which could be for somebody who wants a career in computers, but there could just be computer literacy taught that teaches you a little bit of programming, so you kind of understand a little more how computers work, but generally just gives you an understanding what's going on under the hood. Well, there is what we want, and then there is what we are going to be best... What we can do best out of what we have, right? I think that the solution today is where can we get the best teaching the best ability to teach these kinds of classes. Are they other teachers that we then retrain or re-specialize to focus on computer science? That seems more likely, you already have people that have committed to teaching, so therefore retraining them to give them a new specialization seems more likely than let's find a bunch of people that are relevant or literate on this and let's teach them to teach. Let's put them into the education system and show them the wide highly profitable future of public school education and let them find that enriching experience of showing the future the way to go. Or it's a chicken and egg problem, right? Because the reason you want to encourage people to take computer science and make it a requirement is there aren't enough people graduating in computer science to fill all the jobs available, which means that if you do know about computer science you're probably not likely to take a job teaching when you can take a much more lucrative job in computer science that you could probably get. Yeah. Yeah. It almost feels like this is why places like Code Academy do well. Why you have all these online courses wherein people kids who are interested in learning about computer science and more of that advanced under the hood, this is how the internet is created kind of sense you know wind up sinking into it because everybody else who knows what they're doing, I mean again you know if you the the gold rush is still happening ladies and gentlemen if you are a person who is literate in coding and indeed have a citizenship in the United States of America come on out to Silicon Valley because there are people looking for you, yes you in a high paying job where you can code your face off and even in Chicago there's hundreds of thousands of tech jobs too so it's if you don't like the weather in Silicon Valley if you'd prefer a lake effect snow sort of climate you could stay there well I mean and that's the larger issue is it's something that in all seriousness as we and I swear to God this is only tangentially brushed against politics because of the news but when we talk about immigration part of a very serious question in terms of immigration is how much we allow and how easily we can allow educated people from other parts of the world to fill job because we can't we don't have enough computer science literacy in America to fill these jobs like it's just a thirst that we cannot quench internally and you would hope that these kinds of programs do more for people who that could fill them but who knows yeah I'm laughing because I'm tempted to make a comparison to shale oil here which is ridiculous but you know whatever you think of the immigration issue you can't deny that the conversation changes if we have plenty of computer science graduates to take the computer science jobs versus if we have if we can't fill them if companies are complaining like I just can't find qualified applicants and that's what made me think of oil it used to be like well America has to buy its oil from overseas and then they started fracking and discovered shale oil and suddenly it's changed the entire conversation are we fracking for computer science graduates in Chicago is it going to cause an earthquake because the number of teachers to support it can't keep the ground level up or is that is that junk science I have no idea or is this is the earthquake really this metaphor slowly breaking up collapsing under its own weight absolutely you know this I for one my opinion when it comes down to it is that I think computer science thought of as computer literacy is something that you should be required to do I don't think I think sometimes we think of programming like everyone should learn to program and that's admirable I don't think you should be required to learn to program because not everybody's brain works that way but I do think exposing people to the minimum of like this let's just learn to understand how this works the way you would in you know learn how a car works or something like that helps you to become a better driver I think that's fair well and the one other thing that I will definitely say is that we are in a far different place now then we were 10 years ago even with like the one laptop or child or something right for the idea of putting computers in the hands of students on a mass scale just because we are able to create such cheap machines and they are at they are so small and so inexpensive that that now you can think about the idea of putting a computer in every child's hand in a far different way than you certainly could when I was growing up or really even up but five ten years ago yeah and it's not it's not about computers so much as it is about electronic devices with chips in them that are also computers right I mean it's about smartphones and it's about tablets as much as anything else that that's what most students are going to have exposure to at this point is phones and tablets maybe but definitely phones alright let's get to our pick of the day Mike said hey you know you guys are talking about telegram having strong end to an encryption and the number of users that it has and he points out you know Steve Gibson has picked apart at some of their weaknesses before so have others he says I would recommend signal from open whisper systems by the way that's the guy we're talking about is going to be working for Apple this summer as an intern. Signal is the evolution of the previous product text secure and red phone provides end to encryption of text image and video messages in addition to encrypted voice calls it's available for Android and iOS and the desktop Chrome extension is currently in beta the code is open source they use well established encryption protocols and the encryption is transparent to the user making it easy for anyone to use also the endorsements on their page make a compelling choice and they do have endorsements from people like Laura Poitras or Bruce Schneier who who are either experts or encryption isn't is essential to their jobs Edward Snowden is listed on there as well so there you go check it out whispersystems.org iOS and Android versions thank you Mike. Send your pics to us folks feedback at dailytechnewshow.com you can find more pics at dailytechnewshow.com slash pics got some messages there Justin shall I read them to you? Oh sure yeah no go ahead David said hey I wanted to let you know the attempt to be the first across the English channel with a multi-rotor drone was a success we'd read David's email out about this before says it was a challenge for both the team piloting the craft and my camera team he's the one who documented it although things mostly went to plan the drone for some reason did lose GPS a little over halfway across so the pilot Richard Gill had to manually fly it for the rest of the journey the drone completed the crossing and touched down in Dover UK on Tuesday February 16th just wanted to pass along the short video we put together of the attempt so you guys can share it out in the show notes if you want to and we'll have that link in there as well he also has a link to the business insider story about this but pretty fascinating attempt and almost made it autonomously as well wow pretty crazy it's always the English channel it's always like the big you know line of demarcation for any kind of you know distance traveling you gotta swim the English channel you gotta drone the English channel because it's doable but it's big and also Caesar did it first and probably not first oh man always always season the opportunity seasoned well he's car paying that's what he would be doing got another email here it says hey Tom I heard you mention AMP on the show the other day just wanted to forward an article I wrote for Smashing Magazine that I think is the most comprehensive exploration of AMP on the web so far and certainly the most comprehensive I've seen Christian Cantrell is the guy who sent it in a long time listener to the show and a smart guy we've had him on the show before so if you're interested in more about those accelerated mobile pages it's a great write up SmashingMagazine.com we'll have that link in the show notes as well Vincent is worried about the uncanny valley in virtual reality he wrote imagine being surrounded Justin imagine being surrounded Justin by dolls that look human sound human but don't act human they don't react correctly have rigid facial features and ungangly movements they don't have any actual intelligence and will in fact ignore you unless specifically scripted not to if the whole point of virtual reality is to immerse you in a world that's by far not the sort of world I want to live in sounds like he's living in the sound garden black hole sun video I was thinking beyond the valley of the dolls obviously this would be actually in the valley of the dolls that would no I think it's interesting I think he's probably overstating the case maybe but it is interesting to think about the different kind of uncanny valley we have let's say that the movements are fluid but the reactions in virtual world seem weird because you expect them to be normal and the intelligence of them is not quite there you know but I do think that our idea of the uncanny valley is probably more complicated than we initially even think or even our idea of it is you know we often conflate what we look at in like a television show or a movie and say okay well that's unreal that's an uncanny valley because I feel disconnected from this despite the fact that I should feel connected to it and that's what I'm going to label that feeling VR for me at least every time that I've used it has always had an element of unreality to it that I kind of you bring in with you sort of right and so it's not to say there won't be these problems and there won't be elements that you find odd but I don't know if we're at a point where it's like oh well it's going to be the same as let's say watching a CGI movie that is not quite there and therefore turns you off finally bill in the future home of google fiber huntsville alabama wrote in responding to the guy we had right in asking what VR was good for bill says I don't remember if I've mentioned this in a previous message or not if so just consider me having a senior moment but a few months ago a friend asked my wife to join her in a VR session that was geared to show people what it's like to have Alzheimer's our friends husband is suffering from Alzheimer's and is in a nursing home both my wife and I and our friends are in our late seventies my wife is computer illiterate and has problems with tech in general when the set top box and TV are out of sync I have to do the recovery for her for example they said the VR experience was very enlightening they were asked to do tasks and they would experience how an Alzheimer's patient might handle the request I now regret that I didn't take part myself I didn't realize what was going to take place we have other friends who are in the same situation my wife tries to explain to them that it does no good to argue with a person with dementia now that she's been able to experience that that reality I think this is an incredibly interesting way that VR is being used certainly so I mean the I very much believe that an experiential signature of VR can be very very very very powerful you know when we were working Brian and I with discovery on the VR videos that we were doing in Austin a lot of it from a conceptual point down was hey let's make this the experience of hanging out with us and let's work hard to keep these interactions fresh we would never really repeat lines unless we absolutely had to to establish time and place and stuff like that but what we wanted to do was make it experientially as much like people were hanging out because that's what we understood as the great power of it it wasn't just the visuals it wasn't just that you could look around and see something different it was that no this should feel like a hangout because that's what's that's what you can do that's special yeah it makes me wonder we've had these other conversations about lack of empathy on the internet does VR turn that tide a little I mean that's what Bill's talking about and that's what you're talking about is like having more empathy because you can virtually experience something in a way you couldn't otherwise you know I think in general that we will see a little bit of that and part of it I think is that we are more empathetic the more we get involved you know I think our problem with empathy is that we are in a very awkward generation we are a generation that has experienced something not the internet and then we found the internet and said oh look here's a place where we could take our pants off and run around naked and people who have only experienced the internet I think understand it differently and not to say that it is necessarily they are inherently kinder but the idea of a this being a native exchange is something that I think is more intuitive to people that will only experience it and VR is going to be a part of it you know as VR becomes more and more of people's lives then yeah no certainly as a big part of being on the internet in the 90s was nobody knows who you are and that is so not the way people think of the internet now you know it's still funny because those anonymity and the idea of the never deleting the never delete anything society are two things that for me and you were the defining factors of the internet we can think of everything and no one will know who we are and those are two things that I think have kind of gone away now as data online data storage has become unremarkable yeah whatever yeah sure some stuff we should save some stuff we shouldn't and now it's like hey let's find different ways that we can show more of our humanity that we can show more pictures of our face and we can show our face to other people more than we would otherwise it's very interesting well folks I hope you've enjoyed the show there is more Justin Robert Young out there frogpants.com hotline Monday comes hot on the heels of DTNS every Monday at diamondclub.tv absolutely it is two o'clock pacific time five o'clock eastern time we tried to do our own little drive time call-in show me and Scott Johnson answering all the questions that you have bubbled up in your head over the weekend it is super super super fun to do and I've had a blast doing it so far so check it out frogpants.com hotline Monday that's where you'll find iTunes link as well as the RSS feed so you can plug it into any old pod catcher you want nice and of course you're putting together the card caucus for the contender.us so oh yeah big fun stuff man if you have a game a copy of the contender and you want to host a public game we're looking to do one public game for all 50 states we already got two down we've gotten some great responses so far if you are interested in doing it head to thecontender.us there's a big pop up right there you can click on it and sign up for our national card caucus we're working with some really fun people on it so thank you guys so much and I'm going to do my own March 9th in Austin Texas more details on that as we get closer. Thanks everybody for supporting the show dailytechnewshow.com slash support we exist because you want us to and we exist as much as you want us to so again if it's just given one time if it's buying a t-shirt or a mug or maybe a sticker or a battery pack or if it's helping us out with our budgeting like this is how we know how much we've got to work with and whether we can get Peter Wells to do an extra show every week patreon.com slash dtns also thanks to Alan for the nudge to remind people to submit best of moments uh-huh it's February but in ten months we'll be needing your best of moments for our best of show at the end of the year so go to bit.ly slash best of dtns for that our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com you give us call 51259 daily that's 5932459 catch the show live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. eastern at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv and visit our website dailytechnewshow.com back tomorrow with Michael Wolfe and Len Peralta illustrating I'll see you then this show is part of the broadband network get more at frogpants.com diamondclub hope you've enjoyed this bro the good show oh yeah oh yeah especially for one that started with audio hijack saying it didn't exist and then me having to reinstall it briefly oh no seems everything's okay now everything is hey oh everyone here needs to cool out so what should we call this show we should call it wow wow apple says hey FBI go EFF yourself oh jeez this is not going to be the title big jump but I got a chuckle huh what was the thing that we said at the end of the headlines about 3D printing no oh about 3D printing it's not switching oh it's stuck on me I forgot to unstick it after I showed the video earlier I don't know what should we call it apple a day keeps the other news away fracking for students no yes big Jim did submit quite a few titles so it's funny that Dr. Payne submitted one of big Jim's titles droning still better than the channel I like the channel I've never been through the channel it's a tunnel it's just a tunnel train goes through it come out in France wow magic it's just a tunnel but it was very impressive to build I'll give them that it's not easy Carpe Dronim I like that alright one more second for you to decide if you have anything else you would like to be the title I'm going with Carpe Dronim Carpe Dronim fry up some Carpe pay alright gang I have to take a run to the little boys room but I will play y'all later so go ahead and check me out on diamondclub.tv see ya and then there were two a file named that already exists does it well then I don't want to name it that file I should probably name it today's date I miss Ellie I can't hear you Jenny I wonder why she was being so quiet why are things not working there you are but there's no reason why that should have not worked for consistent time you're looking for reasons because reasons did you see that the guy who does 20 questions is drawing a picture of me as Ray oh no that's awesome yeah I'm pretty excited about it he pays in pictures not that he has to pay at all oh he did that for me too that's great so I'm excited I said make me Ray he picked a really good scene that's fantastic also thank god for Mashable they just put out an entire supercut of David Schwimmer saying juice from OJ the OJ movie which is incredible are you watching that it is better than you would expect I'm not interested I'm sure it's really good maybe it should be but no you don't have to be interested it's really good that's all I can say it's just spectacularly good I remember where I was during the car chase yeah I was on the floor in a furniture-less apartment on Duval Street in Austin Texas because we had just moved to South Austin but we still had the lease for a few more days and the place came with free cable so I think it was in what I don't remember is I was on lunch break from work or if I was between classes and grad school but I had gone back to that apartment because it was closer to where I was and was like sitting eating a sandwich watching TV and I just turned it on and CNN was on because we'd left a TV in there that's all we had and we didn't have cable hooked up at the new place yet etc etc and I was like what is this what is going on yeah I don't remember where I was right? was it 94? yeah I think that's right but the mini series is one of those ones that's like serial in the sense that it explores things from every angle and it makes you feel something for everybody involved it is equally empathetic to everyone including portraying a very unslattering yet still somehow like you get it with OJ and that's a hard thing to say it is a human being right well yeah but he's there's a little anyway I'll save my pronouncements but I will say that everybody is allowed to feel what they feel across wonderfully that's cool I wasn't interested in serial I wasn't interested in making I'm just saying in terms of covering everything across the topic it's the little Kardashian children and even just random people in bars the goldmans the guy who plays Fred Goldman is there a little Kimmy? yeah no and it sort of takes pains to draw the line of experience their father had to their current situation and just when you think it's going to get shallow they have this incredible incredible scene last night with Fred Goldman who's basically like why is my dead son being treated like a joke it was really amazing so I highly recommend it almost like a weird documentary about America at the time but it's a it's a dramatization, right? Biodoc Tech Shib's got a 93 Bronco oh snap says he loves it I really like today's show I thought we hit some good points I don't know why people just immediately dismiss Kim Kardashian I feel like I used to feel that way once and now I feel like she should be the study of her PhD thesis how old was she during the OJ thing? young 8 or 9, maybe a little older but yeah the way that they just draw the line from one event to the other is really fascinating alright well Roger's on the road which is why we don't have him around but he should be back tomorrow and then we got Michael Wolf so I sent him a note saying we could talk about smart kitchen, smart home stuff or we can talk about whatever he wants so you'll see alrighty well thanks everybody for watching I'm out of the post well played wait am I doing the video then? if Roger's not here goodbye everyone