 Mr. Tolman, how are you? I think you on mute. Oh, let me see. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, man. Okay. Hey, man, I'm doing good. It's good to see you again. Yes, sir. You too. So now Mr. Tolman, Chuck Tolman, I know you are a historian and for me, I'll preference this with I know history is kind of seen as subjective. And I know for myself as a black person, a lot of times I don't trust history in America just because I believe it was mostly recorded by white people. So you kind of, you know, rarely trust it. But I know there has to be a factual line like people who recorded the real just because of their own passion for the facts. And I know you study the facts and from talking to you, I know you don't have a personal bias and you really try to get the real facts and you research and you get to the root and you tell it as you find it. And so that's what I want to talk to you. Now here a little feedback. Do you have a speaker that's playing back or is that my speaker? I don't have a speaker in here. Okay, so it's just coming from your computer. Let me see. I thought I heard it like bouncing back, but I don't hear it right now. So so Chuck, let's start. I want this is women's history month. And my, my birthday is March 8 with it, which is International Women's Day. And 95% of my audience on YouTube are women. I would guesstimate it doesn't break it down by race but I would guesstimate maybe 70 to 80% are black women. And so I wanted to talk to you about from his, you know, historical perspective of take us back to when Africans were brought to America. And the role of a woman in that, like when we go back to the beginning, just tell me about that time when we were brought to America and then how what was a woman's role in slavery. Okay. So, of course, you know, there were European settlements before Africans were brought so the Spanish were down in Florida, since 1500s right, and so famously they have the 1619 project right 1620 project I can't remember what the number is but in about in 1620s, that's when they started importing African slaves in to do kind of other menial tasks to take it back a little bit. Europe and Africa had kind of collided a few times throughout history, most notably in like the 600s, the North Africans came into Spain, and they took that area over they were repulsive France and they took over and so they ran Spain for like about 700 years. And then they had was called the reconquista, which ended in 1492, which everybody who studies any kind of history should know that's Columbus right so after they repelled everybody out. Then they had to go looking for people to do labors and works so the Portuguese had started sailing around and they found that they could actually the Romans, the Carthaginians, you know people in Morocco, they had all been trading technology so there's a huge technological gap between this area of the world and Sub-Saharan Africa. So when these Portuguese come to Sub-Saharan Africa, which is like West Africa, Senegal, you know Congo that that area right Ivory Coast. They find people that don't have these great ships they don't have gunpowder. So they find that they have an advantage. And what they do is they start trading things they pull off the coast, and they say we'll give you these guns. We need workers. Okay, so in Europe they had slavery. It was called circum there was other things around the world they had slavery so they were just trading. When they find this, this, you know, new world over here. They need people to work they first try what's called the incoming in the system. They try to use the natives, but the natives don't, they don't last they are not able to work that hard they, they, you know, they die from overwork. And so they find that one Africans are good at growing rights. They're used to it. So they start importing these people. And they bring them over here. Now they start with just the men because the men were the laborers right you know, then have strong bodies they're going to be doing all this work they don't really consider you know taking women but after a while. They realize that they need women one because now you can populate right so now you can kind of get more people are treating them like animals, right you don't want to just have bulls you want to have females so you can make more and more and more. And to it sounds weird but like companionship right if you have a family structure, you are less likely to try to run away and now you have to consider what's good for my family right so it's going to keep you rooted. Now this, this runs counterintuitive to what we find out later with slavery, which is that they would sell people off and they would try to, you know, do all this stuff but at the time it's like okay if you have a family here. You are less likely to create problems right we're seeing it now in Ukraine right so people are, you know the men are having to stay and fight. You know some of them are staying with their families but you know if you have the families together, you're more likely to acquiesce. Okay, so women are brought over for that role well. They're not brought over to do the hard manual labor they're going to do the indoor tasks they're going to start cooking you're going to clean up the people's houses they're going to do like needlework and knitting and things like that. But eventually what happens when you get to the southern colonies is that they have to do labor they do hard labor because the men get seen as more valuable. They get taught skills like masonry. You know, like, like kind of complex fishing things where they can make nets and things and go out there and do that. So that leads the women to do all to do like all the kind of work on the plantation. Then they, you know, want to make fences well they make the men go out there and chop the wood defense and the women are the ones sticking it in the ground and kind of compiling the fence. So what you get with this kind of weird, you know, amalgamation of all these different cultures because when they pick up African you look at his Africans, but they're not you have to think of them as separate countries right there's a difference between a Spaniard, and an English right, but you know the people from Ghana are different than the people from Namibia the people from Senegal, they're all different but they're forced to work together. And one thing that was very prevalent in Africa was that women when when they would work in their villages. The women would use the like the hoe they would like you know the men would clear the fields they would chop down the trees all that hard work. And the women would just kind of hoe the dirt and implant the seeds that was seen as woman's work in fact, like a hoe is used in like, you know, like the garden hoe it's used in like symbology for women in some like areas. Here they made the men do that and that was degrading to the plantation owners didn't care and they didn't know about this cultural thing but it was seen as like women's work. So the women were supposed to do the picking of the crops and the men were supposed to do kind of the manual labor they didn't think when we were able to do it, but over time, you start seeing if you look at old pictures of people working like plantations it's usually a lot of women out there those are the ones doing it because the men are out there, like being rented off for the day sometimes to do manual labor. When you go back and you look at a lot of documents, you know, like, if you were enslaved, you would basically be like kind of an employee or like a tool or something. So they would, they would say hey look you need masonry you're building your house I will rent you my slaves for like a week to build your house now those, those people didn't get paid for that. The plantation owner did. So he wanted to create more slaves and so kind of the woman's role at that point was to maintain the community at home because the men were constantly gone. That's kind of what their role ended up being. So, what's there a period where black women from Africa had to do hard labor, and did they have to take care of the kids. Always. In fact they were given extra duties, the one time that they were kind of given light duties while they were pregnant. Obviously the, you know, the plantation owner didn't want to lose the baby. I mean, you know, like one that's a human life to that's an investment right like that's, that's another person right you know you could sell them later or rent them out. So you didn't want them to lose that you didn't want the woman to die in childbirth, you know, you know the kind of scene sort of this baby factory type things right so you every two and a half years was what's like there was a book that was written back. You know back in those days 1820s or so that said you know you want to space them out about every two, two and a half years. That way you don't like hurt the woman, you know that kind of thing so you want to keep them away you want to make sure that they're able to rear their child. So that, you know when a child about two and a half years old, wouldn't say take care of itself, but you know you don't have to constantly watch it two and a half year old you need to keep them in an area, but you don't have to, you know, watch them as much as you do like a, you know, an infant. They had to do everything on top of that and plus if they were working in the house they had to take care of like the plantation on his kids and all the other kids. There's a plantation wasn't just, you know, a white family owning a bunch of black people it was also all the like little white families that lived around that plantation that were hired hands, or you know if I have a family right and I'm owning a plantation. You know, I might have my kids live next door to me, right so they're all we're all sharing the same farm. We're all helping out now you got to take care of all these kids. You're the babysitter, right, you're you're in and that's why I think we see a lot of them get into education. It's like a natural thing. It's like, you have to, you know, you are good at nurturing all of these children. It takes a village to raise a child thing. That's like an African property right so that's built into the culture. Right so it's built into the culture of taking care of the kids, and they're naturally like you know, wanting a woman is naturally wanted to take care of children not looking at a child going forget about that right you know most men aren't either but a woman wants to do that so that's what they're given so they have to do this manual labor. I think crops were, you know, do fences I mean I don't know if you ever had to put a fence in a yard. I had to do it one time that's hard work right. And so they got to dig the hole and put all the stuff in there right it's terrible stuff they have to do that and watch everything. Like, and on top of that they got to cook and clean make sure everything's done. So, like, they had the burden is like if you're looking at like the most burden they've got. And that would be the black woman now is there is there a woman in that time period that had a burden as heavy as the black woman like was there was there Hispanic women and white women and Asian women that had a burden as heavy as the black woman. No, not, not in that sense, because if you go into Asia, they are highly mistreated there right but they're seen more as kind of just like owned property of their husband, they used to do something called foot binding. So, like, it was very desirous for when Asian women to have small feet in China, so they would break their toes and they would bend them in so they had small feet. That's like physical torture, but the amount of work that they're given they're seen as dainty they're not seen as we're going to do any hard work. Now when you get down into like, you know, Central and South America the women did work but it was kind of seen as shared labor plus they were not enslaved they were growing up in their own culture. So you know everyone had to do their job but here. Black people were treated as beasts of burden right they were treated like no more than really than an ox. So, you know, you're going to put all that work on that animal and then you're going to expect them to act like a human afterwards. So I mean, you know, not that there's a competition but there's really nobody that's like got that much they have to do on top of like living your normal life of just being a mom, making sure your kids grow up right, making sure that your kid is done, you know, like, like, together. And then on top of that now you got to go do hard labor not soft labor like hey you know like we're reading or something I'm talking about like, you know, break your hand stuff. I mean that's why, you know, you get the blues out of the delta you know that's why all the songs are talking about you know I'd be so happy when the sun goes down. Like, this is hard life. There's a reason that you had to have enslaved people do it. It's because people that weren't enslaved would quit after a while they'd be like this is too much I don't want to do it. Right. So, I mean nobody's got it really harder than them, like they've really been kind of, you know, pressed upon by the society at that point. So what about the, the meals like how did black people eat and who prepared those meals that did the slave owners, the white families prepare the meals and feed the blacks or did the blacks prepare their own meal. And was it the man cooking or the woman cooking. Um, I'd say it varied by region right so in New Orleans in like Louisiana you have a much different kind of slave culture like they were a lot more kind of free in certain areas to do this but what I would say is this generally speaking. You were allowed to kind of go fishing for your own food in fact it was encouraged, right. So there's like this old racist stereotypes of like black people fishing all the time well that's because that's how they got their own food right you know the plantation owner would provide, you know rice and things for that I mean if you were growing it say you want a tobacco plantation didn't grow rice they would trade, they made sure you had food and you'd have to grow it yourself. So they grow pepper and they grow all of these other things and interestingly like barbecue, right. It comes from this modern world like the natives that were here, cooked on, you know, a thing called a can or sometimes called a barbacoa, which is where we get our turn barbecue, and they would use European style flavoring so if you look at. This guy who works at a, I think somewhere in Williamsburg or somewhere at a plantation that he does reenactments I think it's Mount Vernon yes, where George Washington had his, and he does this great like, like, enslaved people's versions of barbecue and it tastes different than ours because it's using European flavors. So the Europeans, the people that, you know, own the plantations, like mustard, like that came from Germany, right, and they like certain kinds of other things tomatoes and other stuff that they were used to having, you know vinegar, that stuff comes from there and they would mix in some of their stuff. Like okra right you know like that's an African dish, and so they would mix all of that in there but they would do mostly the cooking for themselves. And that's why they had better flavored food right because they would save all the good flavored food for themselves really I mean that that's that's one of the sneaky things that they gather would do for themselves. So they would make sure that they had the most pepper that they had this and that because they would grow it themselves and they didn't have to share that necessarily because you were kind of allowed to have your own garden you were kind of allowed to grow your own food and that's less of a burden on the whole plantation structure itself. So they were encouraged to do that and apply their own fish and do all that stuff and their food was delicious. And that's why the white people eventually started saying hey, let me taste that that's great and make that for me. That's why white people started like gumbo, and you know all of that stuff. Hmm. So, so it. So food kind of could have been a form of therapy. Food and music, to me, just as a historian looking at this, where the really only two forms of like expression and freedom that black people really could have that white people encouraged and enjoy right was food and freedom and you can look at it married today. Right, you know, like white people like will go like I go to New Orleans. I go look for the red beans and rice right you know that kind of stuff is delicious right. There's a reason that we're eating Popeye's chicken eating good stuff like delicious flavored food right. And that's given to us by black people and then music. Don't even have to explain that to you right, no blues jazz hip hop all of that stuff right that's your form of self expression. There you go. And so, yeah, they're allowed to do it they're encouraged to do it and then people say this is great. Can you do that for me. I'll make you some, you know, some of this and that and so they'd have, they'd have barbecues but they feel like five or six hogs, they'd have all the other rich white people come in the area, and then they would you know proudly show off their enslaved guy who's a great cook and then say I got this guy, and they would hire him out right and he'd go oh I'm having this dinner. You know the man's not getting paid but you know it's like that's where it is and that's how it spreads from one place to another and then they get ideas. So, now, do you think the men cooked or the women cook or was it both. Okay, I would say it's almost like today. I mean generally speaking, I haven't been to too many barbecues where a woman's doing like you know, like the big kind of meat thing right like I make brisket, my wife makes more of the daily dishes that thing right, but like when it's a barbecue it's like that's a man's thing you know that you ever see commercials it's always a guy holding that that's it goes back to there right the big stuff is a man's cooking. Like, but the women have to do the daily things they do the side dishes, you know they make the casserole, and they make this and that. You know, men did their own cooking, especially because a lot of times you have was like forage parties or stuff where they would go out hunting they might go for like a week of time like you take like 1520 men off the plantation, and y'all might go hunting. You know, with the white men, you know, and the white men might shoot the stuff with black men might, you know, clean deer and stuff, or the black men might go hunting depending on certain areas in some places they, they, you know, gave their slaves weapons, you know, if they trusted them in those kinds of things but, you know, they would have to cook their own food kind of like woodsman cooking they you know they're not making like really nice meals, but gumbo usually is like a woman's day right and it's always so it's somebody's grandmother made great gumbo. And then the man, you know, this grandson might take it and do something with it, but I mean that's the same in most societies right like the women are doing the daily cooking. Now question for me how how is my internet on your now we missed a small part in the very beginning because I was trying to switch my internet. It was at the very beginning when you were talking about coming over from Africa, but how is my internet on your side and my glitching or is it. No. Okay, okay. Am I good. Perfect you perfect my screen a little fuzzy just because my internet is terrible with we're getting it switched over, but it was so being that this is women's history month. And I saw it on my calendar so that's what made me text you I knew it was like, you know, women's month but I didn't really realize that the whole month was like first day of women's history month is today. And so, in that line so we have black women in America, they are doing hard labor, they cook as well, they take care of their kids, they're having kids they're taking care of their kids. They're also taking care of some of the white kids. And now, where does like their sex burden come in like what was a woman's role of like how many kids that she have on average, and then also they're started to become biracial kids so black women. So, sleeping with the white man and I want to know about what does history say about that what were that were black women also used for sex, was it pleasurable type thing or, and where did the white man come in was that just something just being greedy and saying hey I've been watching this, you know booty been over out there all day. Like where does this start to happen. So we got to go pretty deep into this so first we'll just start off with the fact that they are when right, not just black women but they are women and traditionally women have been seen as objects. No, no, I mean no one should be shocked by this right. So they have that burden of just being treated as objects by anybody and you got rate you got kind of coercion. It's like, you know, legitimate, you know, times when people fall in love with each other right. And, and so it's really kind of impossible. If I'm being an honest historian right and not just doing some headline stuff. It's all, it's impossible to say in every single case that, you know, this person was raped and this was legitimate and this, it just depends on the people, right, you know a boss can have an affair with his secretary. And you could question that you could say well maybe the secretary love the boss maybe they did generally like each other. Maybe they were just you know like lustful right, or maybe she felt obligated to do that or maybe it was a mixture. Like you can't when it deals with the wise of history and historian can't really say, but what I can say is this. They weren't treated exactly as like sex robots, right like you must mate with these people that the idea that they were like, like purposefully put together like get this big slave and this one and make like that's that's not true. They were, you have to understand that even though slavery was terrible they were still trying to work within a framework of Christianity right so they would still have marriages. Right, even though they would be sold they would still like, you know, if you were a soul slave you still have a wife and kids somewhere else. Now you still are human beings so you might sleep around in the plantation people might sleep around that might lead to conflict, you know, like things like that would happen sometime like in New Orleans I'm doing a book now in New Orleans history, you, there was a lot of like slaves were kind of free in the city to kind of go and come as they please. And sometimes you'd have fights over the same women right you know and going into bars and stuff. So things weren't necessarily different the one thing you need to understand when it comes to history it's human beings have not changed in a million years. We still are basically the same kinds of people right we see a beautiful person we want that person right, you know, we fall in love all of those things people didn't really act that much differently, even behind the scenes they would still get it now as far as like the plantation with like the slave kind of thing. You could just have outright I mean I'm sure that happened, maybe the majority of the time, I don't know, because I wasn't there. But I mean you might have some instances where he got this woman is beautiful. Right like he married some rich woman she may be ugly or maybe she said a bunch of kids or something, and he's falling out of love and he finds this young beautiful woman she's black right and she's working in the, you know, fields and he just like I want that you know this as a man, not like as a slave on hey, that's a beautiful woman. I want to have sex with her right like that's just as a man you know it goes through your head you're like hey, I want to have sex with that woman like right and does she want to have sex. I mean, you know you got you got girls right now in the club chasing cloud looking for money and stuff like that I mean to me, you know, you're getting a status symbol because now you got within your own community now within the white community, you're still a slave but within your own community. You know, say you got like a half white baby you're going to be treated a little bit different right that light skin kids to be treated a little bit different. That's his son, sometimes, not always but sometimes they would treat the kid nicely. You know they would say hey that's my kid give him a little something extra. You know, I don't want him to die. Sometimes they would, you know, I've read a couple diaries, but they were talking about you know and then slave owner had a son and then son died of cholera. It was like a half slave, and they were torn up over it and their white wife furious. Not only do you have a slave but like, they didn't care that's not even the real kid, but to him, that's just, you know, like, you know as a father, like, that's my that's my kid right so every human being is different. The important thing when we're learning history is to not just generalize into all of this and all of that every human being is different. So, what I would say is yeah there's a lot of pressure, if you're a black woman to kind of acquiesce, but I would say it's it's the same pressure as a woman has in modern day you know if somebody of a higher position, or something wants to get with you, they know but if you're just get your boss at your job, you know of course the right thing to do is say no and now that we had the new two movement now you can vocalize it right, you've come a long way, but I mean think back like 20 years like, you know you have to make a decision because they can destroy your life and back then they could really do it, they could sell you away. So, are you being coerced. Do you really love this man. Do you want the cloud, do you want the power, do you want to just not be bothered like, you know, so you can't really say but those things happened and they happened often and that's why there's such a light skin population, you know, in the country when you go to certain Caribbean countries, they don't have much of light skin population is because they had mostly like white families, like in like certain Caribbean island and then just a huge slave population there wasn't a lot of Nixon. That's that's good and see the reason why I was asking that is because I really want to understand, you know, the strength of women and particularly black women because they were a part of the building of America. And I'm at that foundational level, and I'm looking at today and I know like, you know, I hear women talking about being tired from driving the kids to school, you know, and coming back and doing laundry and washing the dishes and so when you think we're still humans. So I'm like, man, there was that these women as a human not as a robot were up at the crack of dawn. And if breakfast was a thing had to cook breakfast for her family. Feed her husband feed her kids and then go out and hold the field or and pick cotton or do whatever, and then come in and try to bathe in the, you know, basin or wherever. Make dinner, and then after doing manual labor out in the hot sun. Then have a man climb on top of her to be impregnated and then sometimes that man be the master the master son the master's brother and or also her husband, or a man she could have been cheating with that's on the plantation. So, when I look at just the, the full day the full life of a woman at that time I'm like man. That's that's a heavy burden to carry, because I know just being a married man it's a lot of days my wife got a headache, and she did not have the whole field. On that day she is dead tired, and she did not have to do any work in the sun. So I'm like, it's almost like they weren't human, like you said they had like what do you call it the beast, the burden of a burden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how does that where it originated with black women in America. Do you see that today like that that strength, like how do you believe it was passed down the strength or the culture or some of the things we see today. Like, do you believe there's a correlation with black women today being the number one college degree holders, I believe I read something that black women are receiving college degrees at a higher rate than any other demographic. Do you believe I something in 2021 is black women became entrepreneurs, higher than any other demographic. Do you believe there's a correlation of that strength that was born in the beginning that correlates to today. And one of the stereotypes that I would say is positive about black women is how just damn strong they are like not just physically but like spiritually and emotionally whenever you know you think of like a black woman right they always you know have them like humming And if you think about the communities at church, you know, I mean I haven't been to a black church years I think last time what was with you but like, you know, like, it's predominantly with the women right and because that's where they look like the one solace they could find was that all of this life is burden. And we're going to find a better way, you know, afterwards in New Orleans, the one of the things they do after a funeral is they play. Fly away. Oh, glory. If you listen to the word one glad morning when this life is over. It's a glad morning when this life is over I'm a fly away. Right. And all the songs like I'm going to leave it's going to be great that's why they celebrate like in New Orleans they play the sad song on the way to the funeral right and on the way back to happy. The life of pain and labor is over. Now that that that also comes into you know just general, like kind of a peasant setting of like hard work, but like black women had it extra tough so they had to be hard. I mean, what choice you have you're going to crumble, like you can't literally can't. And they're doing all of this, you know, I mean we say our modern day and talk about it, doing all this with like, how they're conditioned, you know, like they got to work hard and there's no like easy chair let me rest my feet. No, it's hot. It's dirty. It's nasty. Talk about bathing they don't bathe every day. Sorry about that. They don't they don't bathe every day most white people didn't either it wasn't something you did all the time like everyone just kind of just is nasty man and dirty and horrible and now you got somebody that's out there and they want to do something and you don't want to do it but you can't really say no and it man it's hard but I do think that they see a way out. When slavery ends, they see a way out through education and you get a woman like, like fanny barrier wills who is just an amazing person. And she, you know, started a bunch of organizations who's helped start the NAACP. And a lot of the early like black pioneers are, you know, are like women in education. You know, Bethune from Bethune football college here in Florida, you know, one of them right so they think look man, you know, I'd rather do mental labor and learn and teach people, rather than do this field work. Right so, you know, modern day we have like people from other countries come and do our field work is because as soon as people could stop they would because it's hard labor right. I mean, like today, the strength of them comes from kind of their ability to, I mean, you know, put up with shit man I mean like you know like to put up with it, like they don't want to. They're going to complain the way through it. You know what I mean but like, they do it, they don't quit, there's a lot of different cultures in the world that will quit. And in another way to do it, or they will just stop. But no, like black women will will will they'll do the job, and they'll bear it, and then they keep on they're strong I mean that's what that's something that they, that's definitely been passed down is because you know that strength that being able to deal with the situation and to try to change it if you can, but hey there's no use in the planning right now, like just get your job done and do it you know and you got to deal with the family. They're like a modern woman, you know they have to deal with so many things, right, and they don't have the physical labor a lot of mental stress a lot of those things that to deal with so many things and they don't have an option to say no, you have a child, right and the man's gone or whatever, you know, even today man's gone, you can't just know, like, you know, like, that's your kid, you were the one you got the breast milk, you have to feed the child, you have you have this burden on that that's you know women throughout history. Let me ask you a question, Chuck. And you still got a little time. Of course man. My audience used to like one hour long videos we had 33 minutes, and I know they mad that we missed that 30 seconds in the beginning. And I'm gonna have them put comments, you know in the comments section of other questions they have for you as a historian, because everybody does their own research in their own history so everybody thinks they know history but it's good to kind of bounce off different, different stories or different facts. But I want to ask you this off, you know the beating path, but you're white you're white man, and I've been hearing. I'm a term. You're white man and I've been hearing this term from black women called divesting. And what they're talking about is really like, giving up on the black man, because of how black men treat them, which I believe is a lot of trauma that black men have just from history, and going to, in a lot of cases white men, and believing, you know and white men treating them better in, in modern times, as a white man, you know what do you think about that like, how do white men view black just generally speaking, you can't speak for every white man, and you know what's the real on that and do you and if a white man treats a black woman better, why would that be. All right. Okay. All right, so you do have pieces of trash white guys right that beat their lives, you know alcoholics and all that stuff they exist for everybody. We have certain stereotypes within the white community about which type of white people are better I'm not going to name the different kinds of white people to you know we all know like okay there's like jokes about okay this kind of white guy beats his wife and drinks and this time you know is basically like, you know, whipped, you know like certain certain cultures like, they'll just say positively the French right, you know they're always talking about romance and love and then you know, take your code off and put it on a puddle and let the woman through right and you worship the woman right it's this idea of courtly love that I mean that spreads down that's the propaganda through cartoons you know Disney and all that by how to treat a woman you know you want to put her on a pedestal you want to make her feel like a princess, right, you know those kinds of things. Because you're supposed to be the knight in shining armor all of this stuff comes from like chaos. As far as like divesting. So, what I would say is just pick somebody you like. It doesn't really matter like, look at the person right I've got white friends that are men that have married black women right, completely fine I've got the reverse I got black men and married white women. And I've got you know you married black woman so like, I don't, I wouldn't say you know just go after the white man because you're going to, I mean, like, if you're just going for a guy you don't know what you're going to get what I would say is honestly pick it looks like they treat you well but not just you how they treat other people, because that's really more important right I love my wife I treat her well I treat my friends well I treat other people well. Right, but it has nothing to do with necessarily that you know my skin colors white. Now I was brought up in a world where like, you will get married right and you won't leave your wife, you know divorce is not a good thing divorce is quitting right some people just aren't made to be together. But it's like you should really find somebody that you love. Okay, I told my wife the third day I knew her said I love you we're going to get married we're going to have children and she didn't think I was crazy, which means she's crazy. And this is why we worked out the last you know 12 years but but we have been taught by our moms that you treat a girl correctly right like you go out on a date you do those things that modern culture seems to say is laying. Like like you pussy with like oh you were beta. Those kinds of things that like okay you can't do this like you got to be, you know, a super player and I'm not saying that I didn't have my time. You know when I was in college and being a jerk, but but you, you quickly realize that's that you're treating you're mistreating human beings. First and foremost, this is a human being you're dealing with right. So you as a white man, which I mean I don't really know how black people are taught any different because I didn't grow up in your house but you know, I was always taught, you treat, you know, a woman like, well not just women that you know you treat somebody that you love that that you, you know, they are above all of us right you should put down whatever it is for you should make grand gestures I don't know if your people know us. We've been friends since high school. And I know, and I know you remember my senior year when I had a girlfriend, and I might have put somebody too much on a pedestal right, but like you want to do those romantic gestures. I'm not going to advocate hey go ahead and say white dude, because we're going to give you flowers all the time and make you feel like whatever, because maybe not all of us will do that but you know what I would say is if they are feeling like black men are not treating them correctly. They need to not deal with the ones that are now, but when they have sons. You have got to teach them how to treat a woman, you cannot let them go out and be a player and do all this stuff, you've got to teach them how to treat a woman there's a song. And same thing with daughters right, you have to teach a woman self respect like I have a daughter, I'm teaching her you must find a man that loves you and treat you right do not let them mistreat you anyway. Okay, so I think that that somewhere I don't know where I mean as a historian I could probably look into that, but somewhere we went away from that. Since the 1970s divorces skyrocketed so this idea that every relationship is kind of 10 years every relationship is kind of. You know, like, you know, it could be temporary. We're here for there. People aren't looking for love so much anymore as they're looking for status of a relationship like hey I got this person I got this thing. I am valued this much this person values me this much you know look at my ring right like that kind of stuff and you know I would say that. I mean there's different kinds of white people so you know an Italian is different than an Irishman which is different than an American who's mixed of everything. You know, so like everybody's kind of got a different culture like Italians I know sometimes can be fiery, and they might you might see two Italian people arguing, and but they love each other. They might be like you're stupid no you're stupid and they're like how are you living like this but to them that's how they communicate as their culture, right, and then other cultures you might see where they're like yes, okay, anything you say blah blah blah. And they look like they're kind of with but at the same time they're just going to go right back, go to the bar go to the gambling, you know place and do all that not listen to their wife. Okay, like, if you're not going to brow be adult men into changing who they are. Unfortunately, we are stuck the way they are but what you can do is help the future generations by, you know just emphasizing how you treat a woman. You know, like the crumbling of like the family is really kind of part of it because when you see like your mom and dad together and they love each other. Then you kind of get like oh like that's how it should be and if you're in a relationship and it's not like your mom and dad. You know this isn't kind of what I was used to but no people who parents have bad relationships tend to have bad relationships and I mean that's nothing new. I would just encourage everybody to just look at the person who you're talking to me because when you're dealing with white people you got to deal with a lot of stuff too. We got a lot of different cultural hang ups. You know there's a lot of issues obviously between black people like we've got to work out. And so you know like I had black girlfriends and you know I'm, you know real cool black people but it's different when you date me right like now now now you've got to live up to certain expectations of what I want right and you know like sometimes it's like look we both can't get our way that type of thing and I'm not going to leave but I'm going to you know try to get you to see my way it's you know it's individuals man that's really what it comes down to. Right. And that was my point too because I think there was this feeling and there's this you know groundswell of this feeling this thought that if you're a black woman and you go to a white man you're automatically going to be treated better. And you're going to be happier and like you're going to be like this. This princess on a pedestal this savior and what I was trying to you know what you said, it has to really be genuine, it has to be a organic like a real connection and not just like hey I'm choosing this race, because they are seen as a higher race a better race because I would imagine that in some black women going to a white man if it's the wrong white man it could become that slave slave on a slave mentality like hey I'm a prize, you know treat me like a prize. And that could be a real thing and then sometimes I could also see where a white man could see a black woman and be like, I appreciate and love and adore your strength, and what you've overcome, and I respect that. Whereas like you said, when you see your mom and dad and their relationship and if they work, you want that and you like okay this is what a relationship is like, but it's so many black men that didn't see a two parent home. And so they get into a relationship and they don't really know how to be in a two parent home like how to make a relationship work because they didn't see it. And so, I wanted I wanted your opinion on that you know and you know it just has a white man just to see if you amongst white men if y'all are just inherently better lovers than black men, you know. Well, what I would say is this European culture tends to put a lot of like if you look at our stories right if you were to take, because you mean you go to Africa and get the griots and you get their stories about that. A lot of European stories revolve around love King Arthur right he has a beautiful white point of view who cheats on him with his best night Lance a lot and people are like. And there's songs about that green sleeves is about you know unrequited love and it's all about love love love love love and that's put on a pedestal from just that cultural, you know representation. So that that takes place in our society. Other societies value different things right you know so what I would say is one interesting fact that I that I've kind of known for a while is that the statistically too most when I say loneliness but it's the people that are not married as much, you know or have partners on the planet are Asian men and black women. Right, as far as being single. Statistically, if you want to tell them to go find an Asian man he will love you and whatever if you know you know I'm saying so he will shower you with gifts and everything right, but that's because you know there's a lot of Asian women that that you know are desired by you know what go Asians right and so they're always like they look at some Asian girl, Nelly had a line like looking for a girl half black and Asian right, and it's like so you know like there's these things that are desired. But, but I wouldn't say you know just a white man is going to solve your problems. But, but as far as our culture like if we do have it, here's one thing I've noticed right and I was actually talking about our friend pop the other day about this. The R&B songs we used to hear growing up. There's not so many anymore. Right, remember like we used to listen to like, no no don't leave, don't leave me girl, like all of these songs and it was okay to have feelings. Like the 80s all these songs black men singing about I love you don't leave me. These songs are gone. Now it's all like, you know, going to the club or it's some like super emo rap stuff where they're like I can't trust nobody. You know, you know, like, like all this stuff it's like where was that like, when will it be cool again to like the Lionel Richie style sing to a girl. There's no more voice to men going to be cool, you know what I'm saying. Any of us who grew up kind of in the 90 or older people than us, you know, like, there's no more voice to men anymore, it's looked as lame right because now all man you're feeling about a girl, like somehow like, look, I'm not, I'm definitely not one of these people that's like super liberal, you know, kind of thing but I'm like not saying over map but we've gotten way over masculinized to the point where as a man, you're not supposed to be able to, to have a woman grab your heart and that used to be cool used to listen to blue songs they're talking about one woman left me and they love it you could feel their heartache. That's something we all got not everybody needs a gun and drugs. And I think that culturally we're kind of in a spiral because nobody wants to correct it. It's, it's, it's the, you know, the cool tough guys have run amok. And I think that if you can get back to those days, you might see, you might see a return to where you know, if they're having a problem with black men that they're able to express their love again right because they're trying to do it in text messages with smiley faces so no one can know and no one can see, long gone are the days you know we're like, you know smoky Robinson to sing and the temptations are you know, I heard it through the great vine and all that like, like, if you listen to the music, if you just want to know how culture is just listen to the music. Okay, start off with as much old as you can listen to the words and what they're singing about and watch it change over time. So we'll tell you about a culture more than anything. So, just listen to it man. That's all I got to say. Hey, that's how that's powerful. And I got a feeling that my audience is going to want to have you back so any questions they have that they want to hear, you know from a historian, they'll put in the comments and that's amazing and you said a mouthful about that music and so we'll do some, we'll do a talk about the history of music and the different and how it impacts culture and just the time so hey I really appreciate you. Chuck and so we'll from here we'll let the audience throw out some questions and I'll screenshot and text them to you and you can check this video out. I think I'm going to post it today at some point maybe around 4pm issue if I can get it uploaded. And y'all forgive me for the glitch in here. At the beginning I was trying to switch my Wi-Fi or something, but we'll we'll recap that too but thank you so much Chuck for your time. And I look forward to having another conversation with you. Absolutely man. See you dude. Let me stop.