 Welcome to today's Navigating Drought Webinar with NDSU Extension. A couple housekeeping things before we start is please put your questions in the Q&A box. And if you want to chat with the other attendees, you can put that in the chat box and make sure that you're selecting so that all participant panelists and attendees can see your message. And then these are recorded, so if you do have to jump off for some reason, you'll be able to find the recording for this webinar on the NDSU Drought website under Navigating Drought Webinars. And as many of you know, the new Drought Map came out today and none will be talking about that a little bit further. But currently, 99% of the state is in drought and 17% of that is at the exceptional or the D4 category. So things are definitely intense here in North Dakota and thankfully we've had some rain and that's helped a little bit. So I'm Miranda Meehan. I'm the livestock environmental stewardship specialist with NDSU Extension and I have Lisa Peterson here co-hosting with me. I'm with the Central Grasslands Research Extension Center near Streeter and I also serve as the state's beef quality assurance specialist. Welcome. Before we get started, we'll introduce our other panelists. So we just want to start with Adnan, please. Adnan Akus, North Dakota State Climatologist. All right, Kevin. I'm Kevin Sadovic. I'm the Extension Arrangement Management Specialist and the Director for Central Grasslands Research Extension Center. Zach. I'm Zach Carlson, the Beef Extension Specialist located in Fargo. Travis. Travis Hoffman, Extension Chief Specialist with a joint appointment with North Dakota State University and the University of Minnesota. Right, Carl. Hi, I'm Carl Hoppe. I'm the Extension Livestock Specialist located here at the Carrington Research Extension Center. Tim. Tim Petrie, Extension Livestock Marketing Economist in Fargo. And as I said, we'll get started with our discussion. Adnan's going to give us an outlook. We want to thank everybody that registered and submitted questions. So any our discussion today is going to be based off those questions you submitted. And again, if you do have any questions as we move along through today's presentation and discussion, put those in the Q&A and we'll make sure that we get to them. And Miranda, Dr. Jerry stuck our Extension Veterinarian and Livestock Stewardship Specialist will join us as soon as he gets done with his other commitment that was supposed to end around one. So he'll jump on to if he can get here. So, Adnan, can you provide us a drought update and outlook? Absolutely. Good afternoon, everyone. Hello from Fargo, from the campus. Just like the weeks before, I am going to start with the National Drought Mitigation Center's National Map. And just like Miranda said, that map is published this morning at 8am. You're looking at some B4 areas in North Dakota that was left over from last week. It was the first time this drought season, D4 or exceptional drought was introduced this season. However, it was introduced in North Dakota three times total, 2006 and 2017. And the reason why I am displaying the National Map so you could get some the perspective of the other drought areas to the southwest. And it looks like the northern plains North Dakota is experiencing the only D4 area. And map on the right hand side is the four-week change. And as the other drought locations either didn't change or degraded by one category. And North Dakota is also degraded by one category during the past four-week period. And that is in the D4 areas. And there you are seeing some blue or green areas that is indicating conditions are getting better by one category. I'm going to escape out of here and then go directly to seven months. The prior to the current month, you're looking at the October to April precipitation. This is the water year. And many locations in North Dakota is the driest during the past 126 year period. At the same time, temperature ranking on the right hand side is a really bad combination. Having warmer than normal condition and drier than normal condition. Not to mention that the North Dakota is experiencing the driest 126 year period during this period. So it is the kind of telling you how dry the condition had been during the long period of time. There are four cities that I would like to show the precipitation accumulation. Since October 1st, the graphic on the left hand side is Bismarck. And on the right hand side of the Williston, the brown color is indicating normal accumulation since October 1st. And the green accumulation is the 2021 or 2020, 2021. And how the green line is closer to the red line, which is the minimum during that period, shows you how dry conditions are. So it looks like Bismarck is experiencing the sixth driest during this period since 1873. The four Williston, that's ranking is the fourth driest with 3.16 inch departure from normal for the period since 1893. And the next graphic is going to show me two more cities. One on the left hand side is Fargo accumulation. And the Grand Forks accumulation is on the right hand side. Fargo is currently experiencing the sixth driest. And Grand Forks is experiencing the ninth driest period since 1881 and 1892 respectively for Fargo and Grand Forks. Okay, this graphic is showing the short term total precipitation on the left hand side. This is the 30 day, the red areas that indicating the high precipitation areas and as the blue locations that indicating low precipitation. We had some blessingly significant precipitation that fell, especially to the southwest on the amount is 5.26 inches that prompted for improvement of the location, especially Stotsman County. However, some locations, especially the north central location, the precipitation was there, however, it wasn't enough to make any difference. And therefore it prompted some deeper areas to extend into these regions. A map on the right hand side is showing percent of normal 238 percent means it is little more than twice as much precipitation falling during the last 30 day period. And still on the southwestern locations, the precipitation between 1.9 times to 2.17 times as much precipitation falling. But because of the long duration of the drought, it really didn't make any difference for these areas. Except for a small area that received the greater than three inches of the rainfall that implemented D2, D3 conditions to be downgraded to D2. And if you're looking at the 60 day percent of normal precipitation and the blue colors are indicating above normal and yellow and blue red colors are indicating drier than normal. Even 60 day period during the past three week periods of precipitation contaminated that data, you have to keep in mind that the three weeks of precipitation was so significant. It made up the 90 percent of the precipitation falling during the last seven month period. Even looking at the 90 day periods, that's precipitation played as above normal precipitation. Looking at the during the last 180 day, so this is a 60 day percent of normal, still some areas are significantly improving significant precipitation that prompted to improve the drought conditions in that area. So if I am shoving the drought monitor map that just published this morning, that's a significant precipitation, even in 180 day periods, made us get us no choice but improving conditions from D3 into D2. But still, you have to keep in mind that any counties adjacent to or any boundaries that is touching D3 conditions are still intact. Nothing changed for those the counties, but they are just obeying the precipitation percent of normal to give an accurate depiction of the drought monitor. The other differences that that northeast extension of the D4 into Roulette and Towner counties, which aggregated the D4 or exceptional drought areas to 18 percent that improved, that didn't improve, but that increased the area area coverage by 1 percent. D2 conditions didn't change. It is still 93 percent of the state is on the D2. What's made a major change, the D3 area is subtracted by 8 percent to make a 77 percent of the state is under extreme drought. And D1 areas improved or extended by 1 percent that added 5.3 thousand people being under drought, which made a total of 600 and 63 and a half thousand people in North Dakota is under some kind of a drought. Four week change on the left hand side, the brown and yellow colors are indicating degradation by one category. Green colors indicating improvement by one category. On the right hand side, it is 180 day or six month change. So the big question is, yes, we did improve some location, but we added some D4 conditions, but in overall the SCI or drought severity and coverage index is a good way to look at how statewide if the conditions improved or degraded. So drought severity and coverage index is 386, which is a six point less than what it was last week. It still is the highest, the so far in record since 2000 the second highest number was 329 that was in 2006 and the second highest was, rather third highest was the 295 value in 2017. So looking at the aggregated or accumulated drought impact. So what it is doing is the calculating the area under the curve to give some kind of indication of accumulated impact, which is 10,987, which surpassed the 2008 drought accumulation by 300 points. So comparison the 2008 drought since we just surpassed that area that should show us to some kind of an indication at the end of the drought season what kind of economic impact, we would expect in North Dakota, and we have to keep in mind in 2008 economic impact to see on North Dakota was $500,000,000 to $1,000,000. So soil moisture ranking percentile on the left hand side is the shallow layer on the right hand side it is the deep soil down to three feet. Rather than four feet, I should say showing some improvement and it is amazing how fast that map show that improvement looks like on the western, especially southwestern locations, portions of the state that received two plus inch of rainfall, only impacted the shallow layer, however it didn't make any difference except for that little sliver area that receiving more than three inch precipitation that impacted the deep soil. If you look at the rest of the state still brown and the darkest brown colors are still indicating within one to 2% tile ranking in these regions. This map on the left hand side is showing the SPI or the standardized precipitation index it is solely looking at the precipitation and comparing with the normal. And all these dark colors are the D4 worthy map on the right hand side adds the temperature and evaporative demand of the atmosphere so it subtracts evaporation from the precipitation before the standard does standardized precipitation index algorithm can be implemented. During the last week's southeastern portion of the state were above normal temperature, and at the same time, Northwestern portion of the state was the below normal, and therefore it didn't do too much impact to the northwest, but did play important role in the southeast portion of the state to make the SPI for the standardized precipitation evaporation index to be still D3 to D4 worthy in that areas. The grasscast this really didn't change since actually since last time we met it did change since we are meeting once a once a week. The map on the left hand side this you still have to keep in mind that this is an off peak for the cast grasscast the map updates once every 15 day. So this is valid for may 18 on the left hand side it is indicating the the grass land productivity if the precipitation from now on into August 31 happens to be about normal. Map on the middle is the near normal map on the right hand side is the below normal scenario so looks like that the trend is showing more like the middle part of the map but the forecast is showing more like the the map on the right hand side to be more applicable and the red areas are showing below normal productivity. Some job responses, this is some summaries that is coming from the county agents reports the weekly to see more. So, as a summary, it acknowledges some heavy rains but also acknowledging that the how the dry soil extreme driver soil absorbing it. Very quickly to immediately stop the runoff into the empty drug dugouts and the pond, and also it is acknowledging the high wind. The events, which increase the potential evaporation evapotranspiration and loss of the water immediately into the atmosphere. And because of those regions and some D3 reduction in southwestern portions of the state where the precipitation was above three inches. So I would like to show some pictures. This, the particular picture is coming from Carl hoppy from Carrington and he's he's one of our speaker, and he took this picture and point the camera to the grain bins that is about 1.25 miles. And you might see that what is wrong with this picture that you barely can see the grain bins from that distance it is all blowing blowing dust. And this is despite the fact that the area did receive prior to two day prior to this period, the point almost point nine inches of precipitation. So some pictures coming from our Mercer County and all these pictures are submitted to see more by the county agents Mercer County on the, on the left hand side a dry dugout and the word county, indicating dry seating into the field and how the dust is showing how dry the soil is. Some more pictures from the Pierce County, the cows are still congregating into what looks like the, or what should be the wet so they can drink on the right hand side the Sheridan County on even or no grass growing and this was the fall seeded hay crop on the right hand side, and the county agents is indicating that normally a foot tall of grass would be the scene in this photo. We have been asking these questions on the frost, the latest frost and impact of the late frost actually the blue colors on this map is indicating the other frost temperatures 32. So you have to keep in mind that this temperatures are measured at five feet above, above the ground, and the most canopy levels down below that could be exposed to much slower temperatures, temperatures as much as five degree on the ground, it is advertised at five degree, the five feet above the ground. And on the right hand side is the minimum temperatures today as this morning, some 31 and 32 degrees was measured on the north, eastern portions of the state as well as western portions of the state. And believe it or not, some snow events were reported in these and that portions of the state so I'm going to briefly come out of my PowerPoint to show you the where these are the snowfall events were reported so if I can find that map over here this is the snowfall analysis. Yes, there are two regions in the United States no fell. One is the Rocky Mountain regions, and the other is the North Dakota region where you see this blue blue areas. So, going back to my PowerPoint presentation, and I am really interested in knowing from the county agents, the impact of this late frost, and I would like to archive that impact reports for North Dakota. I would normally find these kind of late frost at the 10% probability so this map is showing the probability of 32 degree happening at a later time so all these pink areas and the magenta color areas are indicating May 29 to May 31, or June 1 to June 3. And this is the 10% probability the late frost is going to happen later date than advertised in this map. Outlooks. So, at the minimum temperatures for Friday and this is indicating tomorrow morning's temperatures are 30 degree, and even lower than 30 degree and these portions of the north eastern portions of the state, and north central portions of the state, and this is going to be even lower than the previous experience this morning. So this is going to be a third time this month that late in the season that the frost is going to happen so I am really interested in looking at or receiving county agents reports for the frost impact. This is the weather prediction centers the QPF or quantitative precipitation forecast had been given us so far a great predictability green areas are indicating precipitation of 0.1 to 0.01 inch. The blue colors just to the south and south central probably 0.25 to 0.5. So this map had been blessing during the past three week period and having precipitation one inch and greater and had been very proper. So this is indicating that this week. It is the precipitation events is losing its punch, and you will see in the, the later forecast that we are getting into cooler and drier period. And then further eight to 14 days. This is the, the second week that is going to take us into June 3, nine period precipitation on the left hand side is the near normal precipitation returning to North Dakota, especially the western portion, as the eastern portion is in above normal or weather than normal conditions. At the same time temperature wise, warmer than normal second week. Moving into between four June 5 to 18 equal chance of having above low or near normal conditions and precipitation and temperature at the same time, looking into the month of June. The split region on the western side, or the, the western half of the state has a better chance of having warmer or should better say drier than normal conditions and and as the eastern portion of the state is having above low or near normal or equal. This is an indication of having the models, having no skill to break the tie. However, we are more sure about the temperature temperatures in the, the June. And this agrees with the European forecast that the above normal temperatures are returning in June. And precipitation wise in June to August this map. This, the forecast didn't change since May 20, and still shoving below normal precipitation during the summer months in western portions of the state. At the same time, the greater chance of having warmer than normal conditions in the western North Dakota than eastern North Dakota. That concludes my presentation, I am going to stop sharing my screen. Thank you add none. While we have a chance here we'll ask Dr Jerry stuff our extension veterinarian to introduce himself. Thanks Lisa. Yeah, this is Dr Stucka, I'm the extension veterinarian and livestock stewardship specialist at NDSU. Thank you, Miranda County agents have been receiving a lot of calls regarding water quality. What are they documenting and in their screenings and what screenings are they completing and then what options are available to producers who have water quality issues. So, most of our county agents are screening water samples and getting lots of calls what we have screening these water samples for livestock consumption results are variable all over the board from completely fine and, and no impacts to livestock to off the charts high levels of total dissolved solid so greater than 10,000 parts per million which are deadly, as well as for sulfates greater than 2000, which in a grazing system can be toxic and, and induce some central nervous system disorders which I'm sure Dr Stucka will expand upon. So, what we're the immediate responses is the first question we always get is, what can I treat it with unfortunately, there is not an option for treating these waters. So, the best option is finding another water source if you can. And if you need steel still need to use that pasture which in most cases you do because grass is limited out there that fencing that source offer excluding. We also recommend consulting with your veterinarian to see how the levels that you're, you're getting from your tests are comparing to normal levels in your region and see what their recommendations are because there is a lot of natural variability in total dissolved solids and sulfates across the state. And then also the screens, the methods we're using. It's just a screening and we really highly recommend that if you get high levels in the screening with the TDS meter or the sulfates test strips to submit a sample to the laboratory for analysis so you're better informed about what you're dealing with and you can share that information with your veterinarian. Okay, thank you Miranda. Dr Stucka if an animal's been utilizing a water source that's high in TDS or sulfates, what steps should be taken to keep those animals healthy. I'm going to just kind of answer that question when we get into those those areas where most of the of the water is actually evaporated the only thing left behind are the salts. And so you're basically having cattle drink salty water which means they don't want to drink very much event, which kind of complicates the issue as well. One of the first things you might see is animals that are a little bit loose on a pasture. Of course when you turn cattle out on green pasture right away they can be a little loose but the water can loose manure I mean and water can certainly add to that. When it's high in what we call the total dissolved solids and a component of that at times can be high sulfates which is what Miranda was talking about again. High sulfates are a problem because it leads to the formation of hydrogen sulfide gas in the rumen which is extremely toxic to cells and particularly cells in the brain of the nervous system. And so that may result in a condition we call polio and that's a very serious condition that if you're very fortunate and find them early on you may be able to treat them and reverse the course of that disease. But if you can't that's an animal that's going to end up dying on you and so anything that makes you think that the water quality isn't what it should be. I also looked at some of the dugouts recently those that are only filled by water runoff not in other words not springs but just water runoff from the surrounding area. You're going to see that they're really down in normal levels and that's a clue right then and there that you may have a problem with at least high total dissolved solids not necessarily sulfates. But you need to test for to make sure that you don't have those lethal things going on so what you know and I've I think I've told a couple folks this already that if if the moisture doesn't come. And the runoff is almost non existent very little and those things don't get chart recharge those ponds and stockponds don't get recharged with runoff. It's a problem and you're going to end up falling water and that's an issue because if you have very many pastures and very many had a cattle that's a that's a full time job for one person. So those are all the things that need to be considered and you know many of us don't have a big enough water tank and tanks portable tanks we can set in the pastures and so be prepared I guess if if it comes to that situation. Thank you Dr stuck and Miranda during drought we know the cyanobacteria blooms tend to be increased in nature and increased in frequency when these. When do these typically occur her and what do producers look for. So typically in a normal year we see these type of blooms occurring late June early July, but with the high the hotter warmer than average temperatures and with our water sources being drawn down. We can expect that we'll be seeing those earlier and even last year we seen them as early as the beginning of June so I would definitely start scouting for those now watch those water sources closely. So you should look for and there's a link to a publication that has some pictures in the chat box, but is the most common one we see is one that looks like teal paint down the surface of the water. But there's also ones that look like grass clippings green scum so there's some variability in the toxic species of cyanobacteria and what they look like. That's that publications a good resource also our Department of Environmental Quality has a map where they monitor the harmful algae blooms across the state and those have pictures associated with the points. So that's another helpful resource or just getting a better idea what's what to be looking for. Fortunately, there isn't a good test that's affordable. And so just a visual assessments the best way to know if you have something and you can test send it to our veterinary diagnostic lab and NDSU for microscopic analysis to see if the toxic species are present. Dr. Stucka, what, what impact the cyanobacteria have on livestock and what should producers do if they have a bloom within their water sources. Yeah. So let me say first for those for those of you guys out there that are color challenged teal is actually kind of blue green color. Anyway, so normally we see these blooms now the environmental conditions have to be right. And normally we see it with a little more heat. It's 41 degrees right now and Bismarck and so we normally have to have heat to kind of result in this algae bloom. And what's interesting about this that the only thing we can test for really is is the algae species itself that can cause this this syndrome to occur and it occurs because the algae produced toxins in the water and there's a neurotoxin and a liver toxin that kill cattle. And the truth of it is they kill mammal basically all mammals if exposed. So this is not only just a risk to cattle but it can be a risk to even your dogs and other wildlife. So if that's the only water source and you see an algae bloom, you know, just be thinking about those things and think about what can I do to maybe change the water source because for most relatively large bodies of water, the ability to treat those bodies of water is is pretty limited. So think about what you can do to provide water just like in the case of high total dissolved solids and or sulfates in the water. Thank you Dr. Suck it and I just another thing that I is probably important to point out is that if you have an animal that you think died from cyanobacteria potential poisoning that have a necropsy done on that animal because we for to be eligible for some programs on the life stock loss. So if you think that's the cause of a life stock loss on your operation. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Miranda. That's a great point because, you know, there are other reasons for why for why animals might die close in the pasture or close to a watering facility and everything from lightning strike which we kind of hope for lightning strikes actually right now but anthrax, even an animal that's running a fever is going to be a near watering source in many cases and so there can be quite a number of reasons why an animal might die and so that's a good very good point. Thank you. And if you have any waters problems and be sure to reach out to your local FSA office. And there are several programs available right now that do provide assistance for hauling water or development of water sources both through FSA but then we also in North Dakota have a state water commission program. What you have to have a letter from FSA before you apply for that program so visit with FSA and they can help point you into the right direction. So moving on from water. Kevin, what have you from what we've been seeing across the state and I know both of us been traveling the last week or so. Grass development seems to be on track however production is lagging. And what should predict ranchers expect for forage production on both tame grass and then on native range and this and in the coming year or this this growing season. Sure, I mean that's a great question and like today I'm sitting south of beach. And when they've got some moisture out here and you look at, you look at your exotic grasses first which looked at you're looking at crested wheat grass or smooth brome grass. I think one thing is the rain really came a little bit too late in the western part of the state for even giving you a nice bump in terms of crested production. You know, I would expect for producers who rely on crested wheat grass as their hay production that I would be surprised if they get about 50% of normal production, because of the timing and the growth phenology of crested wheat grass. I think smooth brome grass is a little, it's about a week later than crested. And we got some moisture in the western part of the state. Those in the north center part of the state. I think you're going to be in trouble no matter what we look at if it's brome grass or crested or any grasses are going to be extremely low in terms of production this year, where we're still experiencing these areas that didn't get the fortunate rains that we've seen in Western North Dakota, or even the southern part of the state so your hay grounds are going to be at best 50%. And there's going to be some producers who may not have enough grass growth to bring out the mowers and cut them for hay. So I would think, you know, if it was me, I'd be looking at ways to what am I going to do to offset the lack of forge production on my hay fields, whether you bring in an emergency crop, like a millet or sorghum sedan, those of you that got some rain lately, you got some really good topsoil moisture. So it's a great opportunity to look at adding another forge source that you can use for hay production. When we look at pasture development, I think these rains, those that got the rain this definitely will help pasture production. Our native range has really been about phenologically ready to be grazed about this week, maybe give or take the last week. And some of the warm seasons of course are still about two weeks away. So moisture occurring at this time period, really will help those pastures green up, and you should get some biomass on those production areas. I think most producers are still going to expect a 25% loss of production, even with the moisture we have. And those areas in the north center part of the state now was up in in a town or a couple days ago is up by Harvey. Those areas just did not get much rain and the pastures are still pretty brown. I would suspect those areas, even if we get normal rain in the month of June, are going to be at 50% at best. Those in the west will probably be at 25% production and some of the mary's got a lot of rain you might actually see normal production in a few outlier pastures. And so I think a lot of producers have been looking to turn out to pasture. I think it is time to go out to pasture, even our native range is getting close to being ready and so I would look at raising those pastures. I get the question, should I keep delaying turnout to make up for this lack of production? And there's a point where grazing is beneficial to grass production. And so I think it's important to also realize you didn't need to go to pasture at some level to get that grazing effect. So you can keep it in the vegetative state. So when you do get rain, it'll continue to grow and elongate. So I think it's, you know, we turned our past our cows up to pasture this week. And we tried to capture that that we got a lot of tucky bluegrass trying to capture that bluegrass. So, you know, I think even though we got some rain, production will still be low. So sorry for those areas in the north, north such a part of the state, they're just going to not produce a lot of biomass this year and need to figure out strategies for lack of production, and also strategies to put up some more hay in those emergency situations. So you touched on this a little bit, but how much rain would we need to make up for the deficit? And when would that rain need to occur? That's a great question. So if we get the western part of the state that's gotten that two, three, four inches of rain, you know, they still need to get another. And I'm talking about in the month of June, they're going to need to get another probably three to four inches of rain to what I would achieve above normal precip to where they can get, you know, at least normal production. In that north of the part of the state, that month of June, they're going to have to receive at least seven to eight inches of rain to at least get them back to normal production in terms of rainfall. That still will not give you normal production in terms of grass growth, but it may get you at least to where you're at at least a 30% reduction versus right now they're looking at 50% loss of biomass. And those areas from rugby to bot know over to town or and down towards the Carrington area are just really dried. So in the odds of getting that, if you look at the percentiles over the last 30 years to get seven inches of rain in the month of June, your odds are less than 5% to do that. And so I know producers are always optimistic. We always hope for the best, but your odds of getting that kind of rain are pretty low. And so I would be looking at strategies to be prepared for that for not getting that and what you're going to do in terms of providing forage for your livestock. Thanks, Kevin. One more question and you did start on this and but to elaborate a little more. If somebody is considering planting an annual forage to make up for that reduced hay production. What options should they be considering to get optimal forage production from those acres. Great question. And I think there's a couple, there's still numerous options we can look at. I think we're, we're almost getting a little bit too late for the cool season cereals like a forage barley or forge oat. Although I still think that it's an option to put those in a cover crop mix. If you're looking at an annual for hay, to me the drought areas, the Siberian foxtail millet is probably one of your best options. You can look at German millet and the sorghum sedans in the area that have some moisture. Those will be very high producing grasses if the moisture continues to occur in the month of June and into July. I think a cover crop mix is also a great option, especially if you're looking for something to graze. You know, a nice mix of a forage cereal like a forage barley and a millet. You can add some brassicas in there to give you some quality and they'll be great choices for grazing in that month of July and August and September. The question I get from producers is can they plant something that has value for haying first, and then they can come back and graze that. And if that's one of your objective is you want to reduce your brassicas in your mix. So don't put too many turnips and radishes in the mix you want to focus more on the grasses like a millet or a forage barley or even a sorghum sedan if you have the moisture in the area that you can harvest for hay. And then when you take it off, your regrowth and the brassicas come through there, and you get a nice regrowth potential for late fall grazing, when you got to come off those pastures. Thank you, Kevin. Zach and welcome to our team Zach Zach actually officially starts with us next week is our extension be specialist out of Fargo. Zach, some manual forages have higher risk of accumulating nitrates during drought and even during normal growth but especially during good drought. What species have that higher risk and is what should producers. What, what, excuse me, what should producers that are concerned about nitrate accumulation do. Yeah, thank you. Just to build off Dr said of it, what he was talking about in terms of options of types warm seasons be those millet sorghum sedan grass or those combinations sorghum sedan grasses, as well as maybe some flowers and corn. And then looking into some of those. Those are going to be your nitrate accumulators for warm seasons and then looking at cool seasons, your small cereals oats barley wheat and rye. Those are going to also be nitrate accumulators as well as brassicas so primarily those will be a focus. And talking about nitrates now we always talk about nitrates when it comes to stressing that plant drought of course is one of those major stressors and so really first and foremost what's most important is to know what you have. And so you need to be out there and sampling those forages prior to grazing, or if you're going to harvest those as hey you want to sample that as a standing forage. So there's a great resource here at NDSU with the nitrate quick test and the your local extension agents should be able to get you in contact with with being able to test your samples and if you're going to do that. And that gives you to take those samples of course as standing forage, collecting them and getting those frozen as fast as possible storing them on ice, so you can get it analyzed, and then. But if, if you end up not being able to sample those forages as standing and now you have hey that you want to know what you have in terms of nitrates you can also do that but, but that's, that's a different test that you'll have to send off, much like sampling for hey quality and whatnot so first and foremost getting that test to know what you have. Once you know what you have, then, then most importantly, you'll want to test that water as well for those locations in those field sites. That water could have additive nitrates that would then compound your your nitrate toxicity, or risk of nitrate toxicity and so, knowing what you have for water and manage that managing that much like you would for those total dissolved solids. And avoiding areas of high concentrated nitrates in those water sources once you have them sampled. And then once you know what you do have really it's going to be a matter of turning cattle out to graze these, these annual forages and making sure they're full when they do go out, giving them, filling them up prior to grazing is always a great practice. Just to allow those cattle to move through and not fill up on maybe some of that higher nitrate forage and reduce the risks there similar to that would be adapting them much like we do in feed lots and whatnot with with an adaptation to that higher nitrate as nitrates are affected the microbial population in the room and and so night really managing and having those cattle adapted that might look like moving those cattle out onto those annual forages for throughout the day to graze and then taking them off at night and something like that or as well as strip grazing or rotate grazing through a field, limiting the access to that forage if you do have higher nitrate levels. And additionally, you can also provide an energy supplement that's going to help those microbes process that nitrate. And so providing, you know, a small portion maybe a pound or two of corn or if you have a different energy source, providing that at a lower level will help those animals through that higher nitrate forage. Another option would be to take that. If you end up harvesting that annual forage and higher nitrate sources, that would be a great option to harvest it as of as a hay source and then you can blend that hay source in with some lower nitrate or other feed stuffs to kind of dilute that nitrate and so those are kind of some overall objectives like I said there's a great resource posted in the chat right now, nitrate poisoning of livestock that can help you work through some of that. Some of your annual forage questions about nitrates. Thank you Zach so find out where you are and then come up with a plan I think is a good idea. And currently, producers in all but five of our counties in North Dakota are eligible for the livestock forage program. Can you share more about that program and other programs for producers who are short on forage. Good afternoon everybody. First of all, I need to say that I'm not not an official USD FSA representative. And so they have the final say and so are you for any particular questions you need to check with your local FSA office or extension and FSA is holding a webinar on Monday, I'm just going to get some highlights. The last two farm bills really streamline our disaster process over the old ad hoc programs that we used to have. It's now based on the US drought all our programs are all based on the US drought monitor that Adnan showed you so if you can think of that. He just showed you USD comes up with a monthly feed cost estimate every year for the different grazing classes of livestock. And I'll talk just briefly about more of that in a minute. And so back to the drought monitor, a county that is in D two for eight consecutive weeks would get one monthly payment. But if you go to D three for one week, you would receive three monthly payments. If you go to D three for four weeks, or D four for one week, which 48 of our counties are in now, you would get four monthly payments. And the maximum is five monthly payments where you would have to be D four for at least four weeks and as Adnan said we're already for 17 counties into a couple weeks of D four intensity. So the only five counties that do not qualify, as Lisa said, or cast trail ransom Richland and Sergeant. And just as wave an example USD is monthly feed costs for a beef cow with a calf out of pasture, the monthly feed cost is 31 18, but the program only has 60% of that so that brings it down to 1871 $18 and 71 cents and then you have another deduction for what's called sequestration of a little over a dollar. So a one month payment is 1764. So those 48 counties that qualify for four payments would be 7056 the maximum then would just be adding on another 1764 so it's a little bit more complicated than the CFAP you need to get into your FSA office and certify the number of pasture acres you have and the number of livestock and FSA has a carrying capacity so you need enough pasture acres to cover your livestock, whichever you have the least of the livestock or pasture acres is what you get paid on. We do have a spreadsheet on our end issue farm management website and it's on the disaster website to help you through that. And, but again you need to get into certify with FSA. There's some confusion in the terminology that says that you have to own the livestock at least 60 days prior to drought but really, we just got confirmation from the National Office, our drought started for most of those counties particular to 48 counties on April 15. So you just had to own livestock. As of April 15 April 14 or so, then, and that's the number of livestock you certify the only other one that I'll program I'll just briefly talk about a CRP emergency grazing and again that's automatic to the drought monitor as long as you're in a county and in this case even contiguous counties count as long as you're in D2 you qualify for emergency hanging and grazing the problem is you can't do it during the primary nesting season from April 15 to August August virtuous is now unless we have a secretarial designation that allows that. And so we do have that for all counties except Richland County for emergency grazing only an emergency grazing would be at 50% capacity. So the county hanging has not been approved in 2017. It was approved as July 16, not saying that'll happen this year, but we are in all except one county eligible for emergency grazing at 50% capacity now and again you must see your local FSA office to satisfy all those requirements so in the interest of time I'm just going to stop there and let's move along Lisa. Okay, so many ranchers have started grazing or will in the near future Kevin, what can they do to achieve optimal production and or reduce the negative impacts to pastures during drought. So Lisa, you know you look at that you know obviously over grazing is your number one driver in terms of production in terms of impacts of production plant bigger. And so, you know for producers if you have a grazing system in place you have multiple pastures, you can create some natural recovery and some rest on those pastures to alleviate some of that over grazing scenarios. Now my rule of thumb this year has been if you have an overgrazed pasture, and there's going to be producers who have overgrazed pastures, you want to defer that next year, shouldn't give those pastures some recovery. If you're starting grazing this year and you have multiple pastures, start in the pasture that had the most amount of recovery last fall. They'll have the greatest amount of rest, and should be the highest and bigger so you can try to move that over grazing event around to minimize overgrazing from back to back years. Our grasslands are very resilient. They can take these heavy disturbance events, but you want to minimize them to once every year, and then once over a four year period on the average. Hey, excellent thank you Kevin Miranda. How can ranchers reduce that potential of over grazing. I haven't touched on it you know the rest of recovery piece but you have some tools to help with that, especially during drought it might things look different for not achieving the normal production where you sue. And so, even if those producers that have a system and are used and know where they're at by eyeballing things it's a little more difficult than a drought year. We have what we call the great a crazy monitor stick which help us helps monitor utilization so making sure that we're not surpassing that 50% use so that those plants have the ability to regrow. If we do get moisture at a time and we can capture some additional growth off of those. I have that and then the NRCS actually has a tool that's called the livestock or landscape appearance which is, it's just going out there. It's I think along 100 feet of your area, you walk you stop and look at how much of the plant immediately in front of us been graze. And it's just a way to another way to measure use and visit with your NRCS office and our extension staff several market be trained on that tool next week as well. So just a couple tools just to keep gauge utilization a little better and in an odd year. Okay, thank you. So, Zach, just as we mentioned many producers are turning out to pasture, just as they're starting to green up right now. And some in some cases they're not greening up as you heard from Kevin. I'm sure they be concerned about forge quality right now. And what can they do to ensure they're making meeting the needs of their animals while they're grazing. Exactly. Forge quality, except for maybe some of those extreme areas of drought would look right now pretty similar to to previous years of what might be expected. However, as we know, drought kind of causes that plant to be low immature for a while and but then we'll we'll rapidly get into July and August with decrease in forage quality and and really when we talk about forage quality and I'm focused on crude protein of that forage, as well as the energy provided but so with within regards to crude protein. I think we could, we could expect protein levels to be similar to maybe what's expected or slightly lower in June but then as we as we round out in June and get into July. It's more than likely given given our forecast going to be lower crude protein values than previous years or previous to average and so I think you know understanding you can't manage what you don't measure. Right. And so, having an idea of where your cows are currently in their state whether in stage of production so if, if we're a couple months past calving or post calving, we're going to get into peak lactation we're just about to have, you know, having an idea of what that body condition is, and having a score for those cows at calving hopefully. And, and, but if not having one right now to help us kind of create some of those trigger points where we start implementing things in terms of if we don't get the moisture that we need. We can expect those protein levels to decrease in pasture so certainly for those larger producers it's not having a body condition score for all cows, but maybe, you know, subset, or if you have your cows broken into groups, having 10 to 20% of those cows scored to help you have an indication as you work through the months this this summer and grazing as to what those cows are doing so kind of being consistent and scoring those same cows will help you, especially for those larger operations and if you have a smaller operation, you should be able to manage having those scores and utilizing those scores of the cows so utilizing that to help you predict when the cows are telling you that forge quality is on the down. And that you need to bring in some protein supplementation I think really right now looking at the forecast it can be expected that there's going to need to be some supplementation and both protein and energy. So coming up with a plan right now as to when you're going to do that, and particularly if we're talking about bull turn up here soon. It's really important that cows be on an elevated plane of nutrition going into breeding so even if you have thin cows right now that's okay. We can work through that with some energy and protein supplementation, but certainly need to have a good understanding where you are right now. And, and, and understand that forge quality is going to decrease as it always does throughout the grazing season but, but this year more than likely that's going to be sooner rather than later, and then, and having a plan for what you're going to utilize for supplementation. Thank you Zach Travis. Should our sheep producers be concerned about forge quality and what kind of strategies should they be thinking about as they prepare to graze. Thank you Miranda and just to echo some of the things as acted a tremendous job and setting that up as well and so the sheep and and goats as well would share some of those similar concerns of forge quality as we would see in cattle particularly with the maturing of kind of our cool season grasses. What I would keep into consideration though is that with small room and it's in the generalization is that we have an advantage in relation to the management with limited pastures and so if we think about our producers in the state of North Dakota. A majority of those producers would have under 100 head of either sheep or goats, and most commonly that number would be between 20 and 50. With that being said, commonly that's a little bit easier to manage and so one of the things that that comes up here in our drought more challenge year of 2021. This may be a year that we can invest in some of our portable fencing and provide a little bit more of an intensely managed approach with either the grazing cells or paddocks and so as we talked about earlier in relation to water quality and just water availability is that if we can have some, you know, water source available and allow the opportunity to utilize some of that portable fencing or electric net fencing, then we can be able to to to manage the grasses that we do have because all producers that I work with just have a limited number of of acres if they so do in comparison to some of our larger and more expansive beef cattle operators and so we have some flexibility to try to manage from there and also say there as a exact touched on in relation to supplementation is that there are some protein lick tubs and protein supplementation that that can be one of those things that we should keep into consideration. Additionally, one of those things is, you know, if we get behind of making sure that there's some of the the minerals that are out there for those animals on a pasture standpoint. As we look at it on management right now and then as he talked to, again, have we had a different stages of production is that our sheep and goats for the most part are past our partition of lambing and kidding and so one of the things that I would say is that early weaning of those of those lambs and our goats and it's certainly not early if we had our progeny coming in January or February, but some of those that might have them a little bit later in March or April or even May is allow those lambs and kids to be weaned because that you is the factory and the nutrient requirements are necessary for lactation or certainly the largest time. And if we can get those animals of lambs and kids on their own path towards weight gain and market, then we can be able to have the flexibility with the the use and does that we have to try to catch up so that we don't get farther behind in relation to our body condition score. And so the other thing is that I keep in mind with our small ruminant producers is that if, you know, if forage is a concern, and we're looking at turn out in relation to pasture is that deworming is an absolute must so particular from a parasite challenge. We need to make sure that we are monitoring and and where our animals are, and as those worms and larvae from the parasites go up the grasses, they get consumed and continue that cycle and so making sure that we provide a dewormer on those here as we close in on June, allows us the ability to hopefully make sure that the forages that are consumed are going to the maintenance and growth of those animals, and not just to the parasites and worms that we have in the gastrointestinal tract. We have a question Travis in terms of early we need and how old is considered early. Good question. And so I would say that that we can do that between 40 to 40, 40 to 45 days or sometime near that a lot of times we'll take him to 60. Commonly 60 would be the number of where we would say home base was, but a lot of people as I've understood, you know, keep them on with those use a little bit longer. And so if we can go 30 to 60 I guess would be what one would consider closer to early. So we need to make sure that those lambs are healthy as well. And before we just jump into that. We need to make sure that we are providing a supplement or at least access to a grain or a soybean meal or a creep feed for those animals so that it's not just a power that catches us on the back end. So when we're making that weaning decision, make sure that we provided at least the time period where those lambs and or kids had access to a concentrate diet before we make that decision and you have to look at that. Again, that's just making sure that we don't get too far behind on our you slash dough flock but if you're in a dry lot operation and you have some feeds, then you're still in an okay spot it's just if we're going to move into a pasture, we can get them separated. Great Lisa shifting gears. Many ranchers are actively calling with lack of forge, even though we do have poor cattle prices. So what recommendations do you have for cattle producers as they develop those calling strategies. So we have been really fortunate Miranda to kind of see an uptake here and cow market cow prices cold cow prices in the last month or so. And so what I encourage producers to do and I think it's a hallmark of what I consider to be resilient producers whether in drought or in flood or just in general operations is to develop a calling plan based around the goals for your operation. And then start with those cows that don't meet your the goals or, and maybe Travis's case to use the don't meet your goals, not to step on Travis's toes but I think we can look at that in a, in a whole operation situation. And so I tend to start with the cows that have poor quality feet, poor quality others cows that are very, very thin, especially if they're late cavers it might be hard to catch them up in a situation where we're short on forage or short on feed. cows that are on re mean there's really no reason to keep them around fence crawlers poor producers and you know you can I think one of might have been Zach who said you can't. You can't manage what you don't measure and I think it's a great time to talk about keeping those production records. You know so if you've had a cow that has produced sub par for several years maybe been a late caver for several years. And that's noted in your records I think that makes an easy choice again, you know poor feet long toes cows that are lame. But one of the things that I do think we need to remember is that we want to make sure that all of our withdrawal times are met so lots of times, folks are de worming cows as they go out into pasture now are giving some pre breeding shots. Make sure that you've met those withdrawal times for those animals, and make sure that our animals are also able to stand and walk on all four feet and legs and greater than a body condition score of three. We certainly don't want to jeopardize our industry and our image either so I think that those are some good places to start. And you know if you can knock off what I'd call the low hanging fruit of your herd to call. That gives you a good start and then you can move into some tougher decisions should your current situation merit that and I guess you know what what would be your recommendations Travis for your your producers on the sheep and goat side for calling strategies. Thank you Lisa and for passing that question and my way as well and so again I think that that's great information as you talked about the low hanging fruit and and certainly you know managing what you can measure a couple things to keep in mind. I'm here and again my colleagues and and hopefully some of the attendees know that that I am an eternal optimist and so sometime it is going to rain. But a couple things that that I see as potential things that we can improve from a small room and at standpoint is is checking where we're at. Obviously in terms of just dentition and teeth and seeing if making sure that those are still functional as well. But one of the things also that we keep in mind, as we dig through this is some of the times we'll have challenges with the mastitis or just overall other health, or those that are getting a little older can cause challenges just relative to the, to the bags and and have a lower female or mother. And so those can happen and if we can identify some of those of the lower performing females and ones that are potentially and or ones that are potentially decrease in terms of that body condition score. Those are the ones that that are lower behind on their body condition score that's going to be tougher to catch them up. Correct. If so for lower in relation to the amount of forage that we're going to have. So some of those I would say that particularly now here is we kind of crossing from May to June is that you want to be ahead of the game. We've had a very strong market in relation to both our sheep and our goats. So if we could send some of those marginal use at valuable it up to or averaging truthfully $80 per hundred weight prices and in fact, we've had places in North Dakota where it had been 7080 90 and in fact we had plenty of places that it was over a dollar per pound for some of those is that in comparison to our cattle industry is that those cold prices in our sheep and goats are are at levels that we can consider keeping an extra you lamb or an extra do kid and so I think that we have an opportunity to make that decision to tighten the quality of our flock. Just as a little bit from that marketing standpoint if we're going to make some of those cold decisions and for truthfully our young ones as well as that kissed livestock auction sold almost 800 head of sheep and goats. Just two weeks ago on May 14, those live lightweight lands were nearly $3 a pound. In fact, we had some at NDSU that were 150 pounds that brought to 20. And so we're past Ramadan, where there was a lot of a strong demand for some of our young animals, but one of the things that's so we can make that decision on whether to call or whether to sell in relation to our young crop lambs is that the top of the market or that feeder value has decreased some and the the price for our fat lambs or or ones that would be going to a more traditional market as increase and so there's actually the opportunity to to feed some lambs particularly that I didn't think was going to be there. Because the value of those young ones was was so high, but our lamb supply is tight across America and this becomes a drought. That's a lot larger across the US and so if you saw big brown and red pictures in California, there's a tremendous amount of lambs that come out of California, particularly this time. And so we're our supply is tight, the feed lots are current. And there is a potential opportunity to feed those lands because the retail cases is strong and food service in the new northeast and New England area allows us an opportunity. A couple of places if you decide to call some of those use and or goats is that Bismarck will be having a sheep and goat sale on June 18, kissed in Mandan will have a sheep and goat sale on June 25. In fact, that was the most prominent one here in the in May with some prices. Bowman has June 7 and 21. And if we need to reach outside the state for either of our eastern located individuals is that Aberdeen at the hub city livestock is June 1 and 8. And in Purim in Minnesota is June 21. And so there are some options. But certainly I would look at those as we kind of cross into June of making those those decisions of which ones, which ones don't need to be part of our program moving forward because some of them are going to be expensive to get back to the body condition score that we'd want. So thanks for letting me offer my thoughts and I think that there is some opportunity to kind of tighten the quality that we have in our flock and our herd of goats. I think that's good advice for our cattle producers to Travis. So, Carl, are there some other management strategies that we can employ as producers or producers can employ besides calling to manage their resources, their feed and forage resources if those things are becoming tight. You know, once they get some of those cows cold down but they want to maintain their herd. What are some things they can do. Well, first thing I'd like to pick up on Travis's comment about selective culling and our cow herds. We're already probably paired out the easy picking fruit now another thought would be, maybe we need to really focus on how to de populate some of our cows by having a 45 day breeding period. Those that are open, we now sell. I'll talk a little bit about that later. We know, we need the calves sell the cows feed the calves that type of thing. And then you're going to have some bull population then to that we don't need so the bulls can probably be sold as well. Again, that deals around that issue of depopulation. It's always hard to expose cattle for 45 days, because you'll see 20 to 30% of the cows not breed, maybe. In a drought situation there might even be more. But if you want to select your highly productive cows that are good or good infertility, that would be one way to do it. Most people be resistant to it. But this year might be the year if you've still got your cows out on grass and the grass is disappearing. Maybe consider that short breeding period pregnancy test. There's different ways to do early detection of pregnancy and then at that point, make some hard decisions. So one way is to feed cattle out in pasture. Another way is to feed cattle at home. In our yards. We've been doing that here at the Carrington Research Extension Center for 40 years. Not a problem. We've been doing it. It works well. See the size of the calves. They grow well. They look good. Cows are content. It's just providing a good ration to the cattle. You can't underfeed them. You need to feed them adequately. And of course we prepare for it. So we have feed reserves throughout the whole winter and we keep them from the feed reserves from the year before. So we know we're going to be feeding it through the summer. It might be a challenge this year since people don't have or may not have feed available to them. Well, if that's the case, you could try to find some, you could look at a energy dense ration rather than one that's based on all forages, high quality forages. We can look at some really poor quality forages and add grains with it and protein supplements, whatever's needed to or in order to balance the ration. Cattle that are getting enough energy may not develop bad habits in dry lot. And when I say bad habits, when cattle get enough feed to kind of make, maintain themselves and produce milk for the calf, they are still looking to do something the rest of the day and need to have something to eat. So in our situation, we usually have straw or stover available for them. They don't eat much, but throughout the day they do pick at it. Maybe they only eat four or five pounds. But at least that's something to keep them busy without eating fence posts and dirt or hair off of other cows or other bad things that cows can do, but in a dry lot situation, we've managed it for years is not a problem. Let's see. One of the things you can look at is early weeding calves. Most people that early weeding calves find out, wow, that worked really slick. I thought these calves are going to turn into horrible into a bad situation. No, they work really good. Everybody's got memories of bottle calves that have huge bellies and don't grow very well. That's right. You have to provide lots of milk with a little bit of grass to make calves grow. If you just give them a forage ration without any milk, the calves are going to develop really big hay bellies and not grow and they're going to look terrible. And they're not going to have weight gain that you'd expect to have so it's imperative that you pick up on Travis's comment about having a creek feed or well balanced feed available for these 300 pound calves that we're going to wean. It's easy to make the feed feed manufacturers have these available calves need a little bit of room and forage scratch activity to eat. So they need to eat a little bit of hay but they can eat a lot of grain when they're replacing grain. And they're replacing milk with grain, they gain well they'll gain exceedingly well most people have done this are just surprised how well the calves grow and perform and they don't have these little dink calves that never grow. They have large productive calves at the end of the feeding period. And of course, most people don't want to buy 300 pound calves so if you do early wean and feed your calves, you're going to end up feeding them to 5600 pounds and at that point you might say this is pretty slick and easy. We'll just continue and by that time fall have been here with a lower corn price, and maybe you can afford to feed them a little bit longer. One thing you got to remember, if you're feeding at early wean calf, they eat 3% of body weight on a three way calf might be seven, eight, 10 pounds of feed, a cow is going to be eating 40 pounds of feed. So if you're looking at a feed shortage, it might be better to feed the calf. And you buy that feed versus trying to find forage to keep your coward around. Now, that's early weaning what do you do with an early wean cow. It's open seller, right. If she's Fred, what do we do. We either got to feed her with the shipper out of state pastures out of state seems like pasture is always hard to find no matter what. So even if you're in Iowa, there's hard to find pasture, they get rain but they do have feed lots there with grain and other forages where you can feed your cow in another state. So we have transportation costs to take cattle to that and transportation costs to bring them back home so do the math you'll find out if you're going to ship out of state to feed you're going to be that's a commitment of three or five months in order to make it cost effective. Otherwise, if you're just going to feed them for a month or two it's cheaper to haul the hay home to the cows and to pay somebody else yardage and mark up to feed your cows someplace else. And if you do that, just remember bring your cows home before they start calving. And that should be a month before they start calving, because those cows will have a lot earlier and if they can have in a feed yard. Usually the success rate is success rate is kind of low on survivability. This because they're not there to get about cows. One of the other things you can do and one thing I just I got to bring this up it's the combination of everything I just said, you don't have to do just one program. You can maybe put in the bulls and put them on a one group of cows or maybe you can do all the cows or maybe you can ship part of the cows out of state and keeps all of them home, or depoculate part of the herd. There's lots of options here and we'll know as rain falls or doesn't fall, what things we should or shouldn't have done here in the next few weeks. Those are our options when it comes to, what do we do with our cows. Wean the calf. Yeah. Thank you Carl. Along those same lines Dr. Stucca, we know producers have had great success early weaning. And so what are some tips that we can use to reduce stress on those calves and when is the optimal time to really look at that early meaning in the calf's age. We'll skip over Dr. Stucca. You know I think some ways that we can reduce stress in a calf is again Carl talked about creek feeding that adjust those calves to a concentrate type feeds they understand what a feed bump looks like. So we work on getting them used to drinking out of a water, if you can do that, because lots of times these calves have not seen a water system they're used to drinking out of a creek or a dam or a dug out or something like that. So I think the optimal time is really it's different for every operation, but it seems that in Carl jump in here, or Zach, but it seems you know I think 90 to 120 days has worked pretty well and lots of operations that early wean. We'll speak from experience in our own operation we early weaned in 2006 and we're scared to death of it now I think it was one of the better decisions we've ever made. And so we have oftentimes done that our calves seem to be healthier that year even in a horrible year and did better. So Tim, we know that ranchers are making some difficult decisions and trying to reduce their risk during the drought. What are the costs of some of these strategies giving, given our higher feed prices in the current cattle market. Okay, I think the others pretty well covered it but unfortunately during a drought compared to normal precipitation year, we're going to have either higher costs lower returns or both. And every producer has a different scenario there there's not a cookie cutter, one size fits all approach. Usually, and going back to what Carl said. Alternative is a combination of alternatives, probably buying expensive feed for everything you have isn't the best option, or selling everything all at once isn't the best option it's a combination of what all the others have talked about herd reduction buying feed planning for each crops possibly hauling early weaning and so on a combination is the best thing and Carl alluded to that. I think our goal. And Lisa you talked about this is to keep our most productive cows or use in the case Travis to maintain a basic production unit prices for both cattle and cattle and sheep and, and, you know, throw in goats as well are expected to be better in the next few years we've reduced the coward two years and it'll be another year this year and same way on the sheep flock so supply wise we're in good shape and demand for lamb as Travis mentioned that beef is good so it's important to keep a basic production so we'll be ready for next year and and when we have ample rainfall and so on so what one thought is very important to discuss these alternatives not just make a off the cuff decision discuss your alternatives with both your aglender and your tax advisor, because they're significant cash flow and tax implications to both don't have time to go through all attacks and implications but for instance if you sell breeding stock and you don't have to pay capital gains on them if you buy them back the next year, but if you sell breeding stock with the idea of keeping younger heifers or, or you lambs back then you would have to pay capital gains taxes so all sorts of issues are there again don't have time to get into them so keep that in mind and then the other thing is when you're selling anything at a market that's that's usually you don't do be sure to talk to your auction market, be that cheaper goats or cattle in advance so they know what you're bringing in, you know, many are holding special sales, particularly on the cattle side where it's a cow calf sale, or it might be a way up cow sale or a feeder cattle sale so don't haul feeder cattle into a cow calf or pair only sale so discuss it with your auction market and then they can do advertising and so on so those are just some things and I'll turn it back to you Lisa. Okay, well I think that's all we have we don't have any questions right now and so you've been answering them as we've gone along, if you do have any questions for any of us later you can send us an email and we'll be happy to respond to your questions. Thank you for joining us today and thank you to all our panelists for sharing their thoughts, and please again reach out to your local extension agent with any drought related questions. This is this has been recorded it will be on our NDSU drought web page, probably within a day or so. And then just a couple reminders of a couple upcoming events is Tim mentioned this but June 7 will be holding a webinar with FSA to talk about those drought assistance programs, and that is at 11am central and then our next navigating drought webinar is June 24 at same time so 1pm central. Thank you again for joining us we'll see you in a month if not sooner and play for a yes.