 recognising the Aboriginal lands which we meet on today, the lands of the Gondich Marta people and pay my respects to their elders past and present and recognise the strength and resilience of Aboriginal people, Aboriginal people in this land. Well jam-packed agenda tonight as usual and we have a panel of people here but first tell us where you're watching from. The live chat is up and running so we're keen to always know where our people are watching from whether it be across Victoria, across this country or in fact as we have had many people watching internationally. We have a fantastic panel here with us this evening Natalie McDonald our CEO welcome. Thank you good to be here. Craig Britton at Acfo for District 6 thank you for coming along this evening we're going to hear some exciting things from your district and some of the achievements. Mauna thank you for coming on this evening and you're going to tell us a little bit more about what you've been up to recently and Darren thank you for coming on this evening the reason why you're on this evening is because we're here coming to everyone live from the Pennshurst training ground, a fantastic facility and we took an opportunity earlier to take a bit of a walk and you showed me the achievements here but I understand something special happened last night and that's you managed to get our CEO into a bit of a fire gear. We sure did. Out on the pad I understand you made it nice and cold and breezy, a lot of water around and you did some activities. Tell me all about it tell me about the training ground and some of the activities from last night. No worries thank you chief and welcome to Vemtech Pennshurst. Last night we had the typical Western District weather of the four seasons in one so we had some challenges but we had got it all back together and we got the team out there with all the ladies and the support from the male volunteers as well but it was a fantastic night, everyone got something out of it and talking to Mauna before it was really action packed. So Natalie we had a special women's training event last night and it said you came along and participated tell me about it what did you get out of it and what were some of the great achievements. I think we've got some sneaky footage, our camera crew followed you around the campus last night. Tell us all about what you what went on. Oh look it was a fantastic event and I would just like to start by congratulating Simone Kinross and the instructors and the team, Darren and team here at Pennshurst. Not on the weather it was really cold and the wind wasn't that great either which meant that we couldn't access the hot fire training but certainly did drills covering all sorts of important fundamentals for CFA members and we had 14 women supported by an incredible crew of instructors, pad staff, rehab unit, people doing the catering etc looking after us and making sure that we were developing our skills. The participants ranged from people who you know had just completed GFF to people that were also much more experienced but practising their skills along the way so it was a great night for me always the opportunity to get out and meet our members is probably the most rewarding thing but I honed a few of my skills as well. You are a GFF qualified firefighter? Yes I am hose bowling is not one of my strengths but I practised it a bit last night and by the end I was getting a bit better so that was a good thing too. So Darren we are seeing some footage here of the Pennshurst training facility tell us how long it's been around and some of the training activities that brigades and districts from around this area have free access to? Yeah definitely thanks chief. Vimtech Pennshurst company known as Western District Training around on its day was first opened in 1993. The land was sort of workshopped and and developed by volunteers for volunteers and going back to when it was first opened my dad was part of it as well and also Arthur Cottrell who was the first grounds person supervisor here and that's hence why the main road coming into into the training ground is called Cottrell Avenue in respect to Arthur and the families and people had helped. For the brigades we cover District 4, 5, 6 and 7 and the lower part of 16 so we basically look from the border so the strain border through to Lara so up to the base of the Grampian so it's a fair patch. It's a lot of volunteers a lot of passionate volunteers and yeah it's it's a really really good facility and as we saw today we went for a walk the upgrades that CFA did two years ago has just been immense what's changed for training out there it's a clean environment it's safe and it meets a lot of patient health and safety we need for on the fire ground and people go home clean and happy you know it had nothing worse been dirty you know. That's awesome and I'll be it cold. How about having said that Natalie I've got on the text line here this evening the people of Belan are saying you reckon that's cold you should go to Central Highlands at some point. How important is it to have events like we did for the women's training night and what does it do to I guess help the women of CFA in I guess experiencing what it's like and also get that confidence to undertake the training and in the light. Thanks Jason and welcome everybody I think it's a terrific facility we're really lucky here because it's just literally on our doorstep but apparently it's perhaps not as well utilized by the locals as it could be but I've been along three times I think and I wasn't on the fire ground last night but I was helping out with the rehab team so trying to get the the members trained up with rehab but also letting the firefighters who come along actually experience what it's like to go through that rehab process so but I did speak to some people today who went on the fire ground last night and they were glowing they were glowing of the pad staff and they were glowing of the structured and safe way that it allows women to build their skills and confidence so it's just an amazing facility. Absolutely awesome and I guess you know we want to see more of these events going on and it's fantastic and our board member Ross says it was great to see about on the on the training ground Natalie's been hanging out for the video I think it's great that we've got a CEO that's prepared to get her hands dirty roll up the sleeves and get out there and do what our volunteers do every day of the week every night of the week 365 days a year and that's in service to to our community so congratulations to everyone that was involved last night it sounds like it was a who and I really encourage everyone to yeah get involved and look forward to many more events into the future I also want to give a special shout out this time to the district 15 women's advisory group and committee they had a dream some time ago was and it was in respect to International Women's Day and that was the want to make it grow and share the experience right across the state and I did give them the challenge to try and link the state to share the achievements and certainly tonight is part of that dream where we're able to through the the magic of live streaming be able to connect with so many people and women are from across cfa so a shout out to the district 15 team as always we have a live audience here with us this evening and what a live audience a lively bunch of people have travelled far and wide to come and quiz the panel and ask the hard questions that we we never shy away from thank you for coming tonight it's fantastic and I also like to give a bit of a shout out to Scott Tomlinson as the chair of the inclusion and fairness council here in southwest region thank you for coming along I see Richard Burke in the background there mate you can try to hide but we've got here the local lack for so again thanks for allowing us to come out and enjoy your wonderful district with your wonderful volunteers so thank you as always and as I promised previously we will be having regular training updates and this month we we have an update from deputy chief officer gene diesel talking about training and some of the changes that are occurring within training so over to you gene to tell us all about training and what's new thing to use around OD&T is the fact that I will be moving on to a new role in a public safety agency that will be working across all of the different public safety stakeholders from a federal level that does mean though that we'll have a new deputy stepping into the role of deputy for operational doctrine and training and I'm very pleased to say that it is Rowan we have been working together for several months now on all training and doctrine matters and I think that the team will stand in good stead Rowan with you taking over the leadership over to you yeah thanks gene firstly I'd like to congratulate you on the role you picked up you know I know you've worked a long time prior to CFA in that area and really made some huge inroads in the industry around public safety training so congratulations and I certainly look forward to the next part of my journey in CFA you know in OTD really good team working really hard yeah I know there's some challenges and I've had the opportunity to work really closely with you over the last probably eight months in my role through service delivery and I'm looking forward to the next steps and continuing on the work that you've led and started with a really strong team so thanks gene looking forward to it thank you Rowan and can I just say to the whole of CFA out there to all of our members what a privilege it has been to work within the CFA I think I now really understand what volunteerism is all about and I've really enjoyed working with all of my colleagues all of the members and the ODNT team as well as those wonderful teams within the regions so my great thanks to this agency that has really allowed me to undertake this role but on that note on to more important matters and some training updates for you good evening everyone deputy chief officer responsible for operational doctrine and training here gene diesel this is the second training update that we will be providing at a volunteer forum the big news from my side tonight is that I have moved to a different role outside of CFA and I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for your support and your guidance I have really enjoyed working alongside each and every one of our members and I wanted to thank you for that opportunity on the screen now you will see the operational doctrine focus for 2023 through the fire services operations committee the fsock doctrine subcommittee new interoperability procedures or IPs for short are in development to provide further context around topics like BA filling and fire investigation these IPs are used to bridge differences and provide context between CFA and FRVs operating procedures and you'll see these new IPs come out into the future as topics are identified and worked through just a friendly reminder that the operational doctrine pages on members online are progressively being updated and current indexes are available again for brigades who may wish to include them in their station hard copies moving on to training the current governance and training focus for 2023 will be on respond to urban fire which I know is a key activity for all brigades scoping courses that are already available for us to use and development and maintenance of a course catalog furthermore through our governance activities we will be focusing on professional learning for all of our CFA educators looking at the audit rectification plan and work for the VRQA and continuing a focus on LLN as you would have known some of our trainers and assessors attended our previous professional development series and we've had some very positive feedback regarding this series on the screen now you will see the course development focus for 2023 we have certainly learned and listened to what our members have to say and our focus will be primarily on suppress activities driving activities the review of the general firefighter course and all of our IMT prerequisite and IMT courses that we know is currently a strong requirement for all of our members we will also be focusing on the final set of units of competency for fire investigation in terms of respond to urban we are now in the final throws of our consultation phase we have consulted with the joint training committee we have also consulted with the deputies group and we will be consulting with the rto governance committee shortly we are hoping to release respond to urban by the end of march the respond to urban course will be conducted via a trial to ensure that it is fit for purpose and will reflect the competencies and skilled required to undertake those duties we have had many staff working on the respond to urban package and we are very proud of the work that they have done starting off with some of our subject matter experts as instructors then moving across to some of our volunteer trainers and assessors and finally with a review from our akfos i know that there is also a keen and continued interest in the AFAC peer review and on the screen now you will have a look at the transition phase for some of the recommendations that we are working through and there's also a link for you to have a look at all of the upcoming activities regarding the AFAC review lastly i thanks from the operational doctrine and training team we hope you have enjoyed the training update the final training update for tonight is about the introduction to aims course some of you may have noticed that we have taken the course off the lms it is important to note that this particular course is an AFAC accredited course and currently AFAC is in negotiations with the vrqa to re-accredit the course once those negotiations are finalized the course will be placed back onto lms for our students to undertake this is my last volunteer forum training update to all of you tonight and again my thanks to you all back to you chief thanks gene for that for that training update and and sharing with us i guess what is a bit of sad news for us is the departure of gene from cfa but moving on to bigger and better roles um yet ceo of public safety authority that's not a not a small step uh and certainly i know uh the the knowledge that gene and the understanding of gene has gained with working with cfa and particularly working with our volunteers hearing from our volunteers uh is really probably going to stand us well in having her advocate on our behalf to ensure that future public safety training safety packages are now volunteer friendly and appropriate for uh for what we have and i think um we wish gene the best and certainly roan luke is in the audience with us tonight big shoes to feel roan but certainly i know he's very excited to to be able to take up that mantra from gene whilst we we look at moving forward with recruitment and the like so um congratulations gene but again uh it will be sad to to see you go as always a senior staff from cfa are watching tonight and they are in the chat so uh if you do have a question about anything in particular please feel free to jump into the chat and ask and ask those questions and our friendly staff are standing by uh to provide you with with the answers so um if there's been a burning question i guess pardon the pardon that you've been wanting to ask for a while uh please feel free to to log in and have that discussion have a new face on the panel uh welcome uh chris gleason how are you yeah good thanks excellent and your cavities captain correct yes excellent and uh you've come along i guess to have a chat to us tonight about the captain's peer mentor program yes and i guess what it means to you and some of the some of the big things in that space tell us all about it yeah so uh thank you thanks for having me on the panel tonight um so the captain's peer mentoring program um was an opportunity uh given to myself that um i suppose in a nutshell you know the old saying goes there's too many cheats not enough indians will out out in this rule and uh remote areas you you can generally get a few indians together but to get someone to be the chief uh can be can be quite challenging so when you go into that space as a leader um it can be a lonely place so what the captain's peer mentoring program does is it creates this opportunity where new and upcoming leaders can come together in a safe environment and um with some experienced mentors and and talk about some of the challenges that they may be having uh and also on the flip of that some of the successes that they're having um because there's some great things that that is happening in our district and and learning from those and what i guess for um you're right in you know we hear a lot about you know particularly some of our rubber gates about how challenging it can be sometimes to to fill some of those positions and uh i know in my time uh sometimes that some of those positions are left to the person that either you know couldn't make it to the meeting or uh was the the last one to step back that a couple of people are laughing in the audience they know what i'm talking about um but i guess the captain's peer mentor program was as you said a safe place it was designed to be able to bring people together to have those those conversations and um i guess how important um you know from uh i guess you know sharing those experiences but we also want to break down barriers as well don't we so yeah whether you're male or female be able to have those those conversations and many female captains and officers taking part in the program um so not not so much in our district this year there are a couple um and uh Simone Kinross uh is um she facilitates it as well as part of the the district headquarters and i believe that there's one captain that's a female in our in our district yes okay awesome awesome um we hear a lot about the captain's peer mentor program um yeah in our in our travels Natalie um what is the value of mentoring particularly um you know for women in cfa uh the value of mentoring and getting access to to mentoring services yeah look i think for everybody it's it's important um and certainly you know the value that we've heard from the captain's peer mentor program and the opportunity to learn from that um and then bring that into the space um for women i think you know we started with the women captains i think we've got 52 from memory um you know out of 1240 so it's not quite representative but um but the opportunity to create mentoring relationships and really networks you know as as you said chris it can be a bit lonely when you're um you know find yourself in a position that you're not used to being in um and i think for for everybody whenever too old to kind of create um relationships and share stories with people and that's how we learn and i think really that's that's the value of mentoring and it's been i think particularly helpful um in building confidence for some of our women leaders in cfa and as i've said multiple times this week and we'll keep saying building confidence is never a negative thing if we can build confidence in any of our firefighters or our people in cfa then we're creating a safer environment for everyone um and that's what we're here to do so um i think if mentoring is what we need to do to provide support then that's what we'll do if there are other things that we need to look at then we'll do those things as well and we have and mentoring takes so many different shapes and forms really doesn't so we we have you know formal mentoring processes like the captain's p-mental program and the like but there's also those informal mentoring networks that um the women within cfa can form themselves isn't it yeah absolutely and look a really good example of that um is the women of cfa facebook page which you know um is is is not all secrets and squirrels but it's an opportunity for people to share stories and ask questions and um it's been used very very actively for people to ask questions about things that are happening and ask other people is this normal what happens in your brigade how does this work and a very recent example that came up which we talked about you know at our executive was um some of the teams that were fighting the flowerdale fire toilet facilities weren't available people were driving our women firefighters back to a facility um that was taking people off the fire ground um and yet the facilities could have been made available it pointed out a bit of a knowledge gap in a local area about resources that could have been made available people out of practice post COVID etc and we were able to take that chat that was running about what does your district do how do you do it and just reinforce the capacity for facilities that are available and can be made available so there's you know those are examples where if you have got nowhere to take your question um then it can feel again very isolating and um and lonely and fundamentally inefficient yeah absolutely absolutely uh we have the first of our live audience questions and uh peter wants to ask us a question uh you look thank you and welcome welcome here it's great to have you come to our district um thanks for the opportunity um i'm a dgo and training officer for the nearing group and i have a statement and a question at the end um i have great concern over the difficulty in signing up and encouraging new members to the cfa and then getting them to complete the 40 hours of compulsory online training that is required i firstly know i personally know of people who have had difficulty navigating their way through the cfa's online site and have given up um and first hand example is uh our son charlie 16 applied online to the cfa volunteer recruitment team on october 13 last year by the time his request had been sent and approved which had to be followed up with the help of our basso it was mid november then he had to fill out a registration form online and because he had asthma as a child which he has now grown out of he had to fill out another nine page online form fitness fitness for duty assessment required by cfa with questions that no 16 year old should have to answer so then he was then required to get a medical assessment from a doctor that was then sent to another department by cfa called injury net on the 12th of january told it could take two weeks to be looked at by an injury net doctor five weeks later i chased it up again and they said they would fast track it for me so kind a doctor rang me and told charlie would then have to go back to his original doctor and get a referral to see a breathing specialist of which we still have to do only last week he got accepted to the cfa as a non-operational member over four months and many many hours of our time have been working on this now as you expect to do approximately 40 hours of training before he can get on a truck in a rural fiber gate that would be lucky to do five turnouts a year this needs to change as we are losing so many potential new volunteers to our area the system is failing the trainings are too long we have people on the back we will end up with more people on the back of private units and cfa tankers what do you intend to do about this great question peter and can i say your story is not unique um and i hear people share their experiences that you've just um touched on uh time and time again so we are we are actually doing something about that a couple of things i wanted to i guess touch on so um we'll be coming out to to people more broadly uh very very soon talking about an operating model review and an operating model review is really focusing on how cfa you know what the cfa do how do we deliver those services to the standard more resources and the like required to facilitate that one of the things that i've heard very loud and clear that we all have heard very loud and clear particularly from rural western brigade is a one size melbourne centric approach does not fit all so um and certainly i've given my commitment to um a revised general firefighter for rural brigades that won't be to uh i guess it's sort of similar to what minimum standards might have been uh the minimum skills might have been but certainly not as involved as what it is today and that's part of that review that's that's going on so um and we want rural brigades to want to be part of that to help us shape that uh to help shape that up so um that that is happening and and that's what gene meant by when she touched on review of general firefighter um touching on uh the the issue in respect to the medical standards and the questionnaire um again we're currently cfa is currently using the afaq guidelines for medical standards they are um uh they're dated um and so there's a project work being led by nicole favela and her team and the health services team to rewrite the medical standards for cfa to have a medical standard approach that is sensible uh and tailorable to the needs of the individual not you know being consulted to by their doctor um and being able to put people into the organization um that may have conditions or otherwise it ordinarily would have had them said no thanks for coming um but because it's managed because it's you know under control and because it's being facilitated by healthcare professionals um you know they will be able to to come into the organization so asthma is one of them yeah so i hear all the time asthma diabetes some of those more um i guess traditional triggers that would have caused someone to go off and have all these tests and the rest of it so that system is is changing that they're well advanced on on working that through and i and we do hope that um we'll be able to come more broadly to the organization and start talking about the application of the new medical standards because i really do feel um that is going to cut down on the experiences that your son uh has experienced so um not going to help your son i appreciate that there's other isolated incidents that i do yeah we hear all the time and i think that's why um again our health services team have heard the plight of of our membership and that's why we've decided to build something that works for volunteers and a volunteer organization rather than taking again that one size fits all approach that's been applied across industry so we're really excited about it um we're in the final stages of of putting that together and again we'll be out we'll be coming out and talking about that more um more broadly so i think that's probably the main things i've touched on for for you but thanks thanks for sharing your story it's one we hear quite regularly and i think jason there's a few messages in the chat that are sort of echoing that so and that's why we want to do some of this you know just to step back kind of work i mean we've got we've always got a very fine balance to kind of manage we've got absolutely obligations in terms of health and safety that we have to meet everybody knows that but sometimes they can be interpreted to the you know to the extreme and we've just got to make sure that we've got a fit for purpose model for our nature of the nature of our fire service not something that just picks off the shelf from you know a different fire service one of the other things that um that you touched on that i know of arcs uh deputy chief officer um kaileen jones and nicky habides and the volunteer sustainability team to look at uh is this issue of if you're transferring from one brigade to another brigade your operational and brigade a all of a sudden your default to not operational and brigade b that's a system tick box error we're getting that looked at and getting that resolved so hopefully we'll we'll fix that momentarily and the other and the other issue you know that that we are aware of is the volunteer recruitment hub currently is a bit clunky we know that we we accept that and again the team are working hard on putting together a a set of requirements so that we can get the developers back in to fix now we've got a lot of a list of fix and and thanks to everyone that's contributed um to that feedback um so we we we're very attuned to some other challenges at the top of our brigades and rooms that have been in that space and it's it's very much on the top of the list to resolve thanks for your question sir just uh with the volunteer recruitment hub we often get a little bit of negativity and feedback about that and your spot on about the um clunkiness of it but we do have a positive story in district six where we have a female member transferring from one brigade to the next so it's a full it's a full application process um she actually applied first thing in the morning about eight thirty in the morning by mid-morning the secretary in the back so it doesn't anything and come to the district they've done their thing because she had a working with children check already um it sort of went through the fifth of work police check did their automatic police check instead of going for manual processing and by mid-afternoon it was sitting on my inbox for approval so when it works when everybody does their bit as they should do or could do um it can work in that so in just in one day less than 24 hours we had a member solving up fully into that new brigade so that's a positive a positive story for that thank you and i think that's one of the benefits is yeah when the moon's blue line and there are um some of those things that don't normally trip up some of the processes it can go through very quickly in a day but certainly the story Peter tells yeah we hear those as well so um very much we've we've we've uh we've got a thing well in trying to uh to resolve those so thanks again thanks for for raising that thank you throughout the course of this week we've been featuring some of the fantastic women of CFA that we have in our organization whether they be DGOs captains and the like and recently we've featured a captain of Ilden Brigade Nikki Lung who does a fantastic job of running that that brigade and she has some a lot of a bit of a unique aspect to her brigade it's not only been land-based but they have an and respond in CFA's only fireboat yeah and Nikki also works for the CFA and does a fantastic job there as well captain of Ilden nine years ago so I think she's been around for for quite a long time in that in that role um and uh and been a member of the brigade for for 17 years and certainly is a shining example of of of what emails in CFA can do we're sharing a video a little short little video and clip of of Nikki and what she's done in her brigade in the chat I encourage everyone at some point to to watch that video to understand a little bit more about the Ilden Brigade Nikki and her role in in leading that brigade and certainly she made the news recently as some might remember where there were we had a tragic ski boat accident where the brigade went out and managed to um to save eight people in that incident so big shout out to Ilden Brigade to Nikki you do a fantastic job to like your group you do a great job and again we encourage everyone to to have a look at that that video morning your time to shine so women's reference group they're important very important tell us why they're important to you and your district so um I was asked or tapped on the shoulder or nominate I don't quite know I quite know I don't quite know how it happened but nearly two years ago I was asked to be the district five representative on the women's advisory council and I thought why me but um it's been an absolute privilege and a fascinating journey to be involved with that women's advisory council mostly through COVID it's been online meetings um but there's been there's been some terrific opportunities to engage with other women right across the state I just call it an amazing brains trust really and to see what other groups other brigades other teams are doing across the state yes there are significant challenges for women right across the state but the flavour of the women's advisory council for me has been really solution focused very positive and energising I must say and I think most of the people who get involved make those similar sort of comments so I think it's it's a great opportunity for representatives to feed directly to both you and Natalie and you I've been really impressed by the fact that you're both there you both listen and you don't just listen you actually take away and build on suggestions that are made and bring them back again so there's been some real wins about that that representation from from the ground up so it's been a really interesting process absolutely so as I guess as senior leaders of the organisation it's something we gave our commitment to not only for the women's advisory committee but also our young person's advisory committee how important is it for senior leaders to be attuned to these issues in their organisations and I know some people are probably potentially criticised as for establishing some of these things and what was I guess seen to bypass the chain of command but how important is it for senior leaders of an organisation to be linked in and hear some of the things that you know the mourners raised and be able to take action for them well I think it's critical and it's one of the reasons why we you know we've created those groups but it's also one of the reasons why we get out and about and people may not be aware but each of our executives has been assigned a region and it's you know my expectation that they will be out and about in that region at brigade events dinners regions districts and they are all doing that so not just Jason and myself but our chief information officer our head of strategy our head of people and culture because unless you're out and about hearing stories like the one that Peter's just shared you don't actually get the the touch and feel of the way issues are kind of playing out on the ground and I think that what we've heard just tonight is a really good example of why it is important to create that connectivity with our members and not just rely on things that can sometimes get filtered through the system because other people are applying their interpretation of what's important and what isn't one of the things that has I think struck both of us is many of the issues raised are relatively simple to fix it's just that they haven't been surfaced you know and when you kind of hear it you go well that should be easier to fix how hard is that you know um well the the sanitary packs on trucks was one that yeah that was raised with us so yeah what do you mean they're not on trucks yeah yeah very um you know call it a fundamental right you know um that wasn't being addressed by um by cfa and in fact some antagonism towards that issue in some parts of the state so um you know I think that opportunity to hear from people um in whatever format but it it's certainly been important for us in both hearing from our women of cfa and hearing from our young people of cfa um there are you know there are certainly challenges for everyone in cfa but there are over and above challenges for some of our groups and some of our in some of our areas it's not universal um and I think that's also important to acknowledge um but it has been a great opportunity and I hope and I hope we will continue that as the song goes from little things big things grow um the women's advisory committee in particular we had a lot of discussion around um you know I guess gender appropriate facilities and the luck thereof in in brigades in brigade stations in our training campuses and the and and the like I know again talking to Darren earlier that pence first here is one of those training campuses that he's struggling with um you know gender appropriate change facilities and like so that was a discussion topic at the women's advisory group that um made its way to spring street and resulted in significant government investment in cfa to resolve that issue well resolve some of that issue you know we've got a long way to go but we were successful in um getting an injection of eight million dollars specifically for gender appropriate facilities so that includes three training campuses including this one last night 14 women had to go and get changed um in a in the state in the room up there with the cut out male change room and put stick up a temporary female sign and that's what we did um you know for a training facility it just you know beggars believe so we have been successful in getting funding um to address that issue we've got a long way to go in our brigade facilities we know that but that eight million will allow us to tackle 40 stations um and we're going to keep bidding for money and trying to get more money to address some of these issues it's just the basics you know but that was an issue that came directly from the women's advisory committee so what um someone your reference group what are some of the most topical things that are getting discussed at the moment um i think ppc ppe is i'm hearing constantly from members about those sorts of issues and i and there's been a lot of discussion of on the women's advisory council as well about that so yeah we people often struggle to find the right size whether it be gloves pants it's um it's a it's a constant challenge so it was refreshing to hear at the last advisory council that the ppc summit was going to be an option to go ahead and really get the suppliers thinking right from the word go about making it as helpful as possible for people to be comfortable and safe and i know natalie you've been a bit of a spearhead on that one um so i guess for those that out there sort of going oh what's this what's this summer what are we hearing about um so what are we proposing yeah so look we really um i mean i you know everywhere i've gone i've heard um some of the challenges about the right fit um not actually not just for women but for um people that aren't the traditional size you know and gloves is the one that comes up structural gloves over and over again if you haven't had smaller hands or a couple of people are putting you know highlighting that um and you know the challenge that our um our sort of infrastructure people have is the manufacturers aren't making gear that isn't what they consider to be you know in traditional sizes and that that's quite staggering and one that i think we need to be trying to influence so we are intending to hold a pp summit and get the suppliers along and have some of our people talk about the stories it is what it's like for me when i'm trying to find something to fear so that i'm safe on the fire ground or that i'm safe here and there and so we're pretty keen to do that and i and i have shared you know what's what's quite worrying i think from my point of view is looking at some of the international trends so in north america or the northern americas there are 90 000 women firefighters and the manufacturers are still not making equipment um that suits the physiques and um sizing etc so how many does it take you know before we actually um you know get to a point where we can get here that fits our women firefighters um or and or people with different sizes smaller sizing etc so you know i think we have to take this on to industry um and i also sit on the board of AFAC which is the national firefighting um you know organizations um board and i've been raising this issue there as well because you know if you add us with rfs with x with y you know that's a lot of people that are potentially not getting the right sizing for their gear cfs like there's lots of yeah a lot of women firefighters right across this country that certainly would appreciate yeah our spearheading this this issue we have so many fantastic women in cfa they've done so many fantastic things for the projects initiatives right across this state and unfortunately yeah from as a member of the honours and awards committee for the cfa board with the other board members we uh we would love to see more women of cfa recognized through the honours and awards system whether they be for internal cfa awards or for national awards such as the the national medal the australian fire service medal uh and the like and tonight we've got a video from blinda glespie who's going to tell us about the honours and awards system and how you can nominate a fantastic woman of cfa that's done great things for this organization over to you belinda hi my name is belinda glespie i'm cfa's awards and recognition officer my role is to support the administration decision-making of cfa's honours and awards system i'm also a volunteer of seven years with base water fire brigade it is through the honours and awards portfolio that we recognize the service of cfa members by recognizing the service of our members we help identify role models and in turn help to define encourage and reinforce aspirations ideals and standards of cfa there are two board categories for honours and awards those that form part of the australian system of honours and awards these are worn on your left hand side those issued by organizations or perhaps other countries and these are worn on your right hand side cfa honours and awards are worn on your right you may be familiar with the system of cfa service awards which are generally presented to members at brigade or group functions a certificate is presented at five years of service and a medal at 10 years of service and every five years thereafter there are several alternative awards that were created to acknowledge those people who have done something that exceeds what could be considered as meeting the usual expectations of a member going above and beyond this includes the cfa outstanding service medal commendation for service unit citation for service and chief officer's commendation in 2019 approval was given for a new award that acknowledges the actions of a community member at a specific incident this award is known as the citizen's commendation certificate cfa is a widely diverse organization and we want our award recipients to represent this we strongly encourage nominations from all aspects to highlight our membership nominations for the australian fire service medal the eight percent are currently open for the australia day honours 2024 and close on the first of may 2023 to nominate visit members online and download the relevant nomination form and supporting documentation we have materials available to assist you with the nomination process and please reach out if you require any assistance or would like to discuss the potential nomination thanks chief back over to you thanks belinda and thank you for the great work you do ensuring that all our members are recognized through the honours and awards system and if you do want more information i know belinda is more than happy to be contacted to to help our members so great job belinda great truth your turn now thank you so great how important is it as a leader a senior leader in the organization particularly for district six to i guess make sure that you've got i guess how important is it for you to have diversity in your membership and from a from a district perspective what are some of the things that you're spearheading to make that happen thanks chief absolutely critically important and i suppose if we go back to the basis and firstly that cfa always has been and always will be a volunteer community based emergency service organization therefore we need to reflect the community not only that we serve but where we get our members from and we know that females make up about 50 of our population so therefore that there shouldn't be any reason why we should have a fair number of firefighters reflecting gender as well so if i take a step back our district planning committee going back some time ago recognize this and wanted to have some more fire training for our operational members and when we looked at it we decided we need to take a step further and and investigate some of the data around some of our operational members and with the support of dco league from region a vst led by Simone Kinross and Simone's name pops up quite often and jess britain they actually looked at a lot of the data and we found that the operational numbers for females in district six was lacking and in fact out of 341 possible operational leadership roles we only had 14 females in that so they only represented four percent of our operational female roles so out of that they developed the pilot program building confident leaders which was taken over two years was unfortunately interrupted with a bit of covid um and we had 17 applicants out of 11 brigades which was fantastic effort they undertook training in leadership sessions hotfire training days operational skills maintenance training days they completed their aims course and they also did the working minds first for worst first responders for well-being so out of that after the evaluation after the course was completed a hundred percent said that they actually gained confidence in operational leadership and six of those members actually taken up leadership roles during the course and post the course so we're very proud of the way that actually occurred we're very fortunate enough that we've got some very proud and passionate female members supporting and driving change and two of those members sit on the women's advisory council with you Katie Miller captain from Port Campbell and Sarah Monane one of our firefighters from Birigara very proud and passionate and on top of that we recognize too that with the DPC being the strategic decision-making platform for the district we didn't have any female members on that so we've now changed the constitution of the DPC to include a permanent two members on the DPC female members to represent the female members of the district and I'm pretty lucky that Sarah Monane's one of those members so she's actually the link now from the women's advisory council into the district and also Angela Carter who do a fantastic job so they're they're moving forward with that also with the district six DPC we've now developed the inclusion and fairness and diversity subcommittee to the DPC which is now being which will be led by Alex Perry who's on the the regional inclusion and fairness committee and which our two female members hopefully will be a part of as well so we're actually seeing a fair bit of change in the way in which we address things in district six and as I said we've got a lot of proud and passionate people that are actually supporting that direct change of direction and um I guess yeah let's talk about some of the hardest on that so talk about I guess for you um being a senior leader trying to implement you know progressive change uh in your part of the world um do you come with some resistance it does um you know we we still get the negativity about how you're having women's training days or when's the men's training days well for me men's training days are almost every day of the year so it's about time we actually uh look at the way in which we support our female operational members and give them the training that they know because not everyone trains the same way not everyone takes in information and not everyone absorbs information the same way so we've got to be and it's not just females it's about all our diversity it's all about you know doesn't matter what the ethnicity is your religious beliefs or LGBTQI plus community it's about providing that support mechanism to ensure that everyone's welcome in the CFA and supported in CFA and you know I've heard this catch quite quite often the community is at the center of everything that we do so um as I said we need to reflect that community and we need to support them so it's for me um we've still got 17 brigades in District 6 that have no female members so that's my next challenge um to provide that support to the communities to ensure that the female members from there uh are welcome and supported. So how important are some of the initiatives that Craig's done in District 6 to I guess ensuring diversity in the organization? Oh look I you know they're critical and you know having that leadership support at the local level is what makes the difference we won't see this change because you and I say there should be change it'll be because our local leaders our DPCs our group officers um you know our community leaders are actually talking about um that inclusivity um as you say not just in terms of gender but in terms of all forms of diversity why do we want that we want that because we want to be able to protect our communities and to be able to protect our communities we need to be drawing on the maximum volume of people available and um and I you know I think it's a fundamental you know issue for us so having that local leadership is is critical um having the capacity to have the conversations with people who you know might be a bit resistant we certainly have them it's okay to have a conversation about it and talk about why it's important um and why it is the direction that the CFA's headed and I guess that's really what we do need to do isn't it like we need to have the conversation um bring it out into into the light and I think you know Craig from your perspective um that which is shine a light on you know gets measured gets done and for you I guess you know exploring with your DPC those brigades that don't have female members and I guess starting to think about what could be done to to assist that is is really sort of shining that light and creating that conversation it's a journey it is you know we're not going to be able to wave that magic wand and fix it overnight but we we need to bring it front and center of people's minds topic of conversation you know whether it be at the the BMT level the DPC level at the regional level at the state level and we're all if we're all having these conversations it's all start being front of mind hopefully we can make a change yeah absolutely absolutely yeah I think it's important to discuss it at every level as you say whether it's a brigade a group a district and if you don't know out there who your district rep is on the women's advisory council find out have a chat with them feed the issues up get them to come and talk to you because the more people talk about these issues the more solutions can be created and if you you know if you really don't know and you want some help you might be a bit shy and ask I'll I'll put the offer out there if you want to shoot through the internal comms email address on the front bottom of the banner there will will assist you in connecting you to to your your rep so certainly because we need to we need to keep having these these conversations um so have you have you noticed any other changes I guess since you started put these things into into play across your district oh absolutely and a lot of it comes back to the female members operational they've all said that their skills have increased they've gained more confidence in being able to put their hand up to take on a leadership role we just had the International Women's Day training day we ran that on Sunday at the campedown fire station we had the mobile gas prop there and we had about 15 female members come and they actually had a a crack at doing some structural stuff structural firefighting hot firefighting which they'd never done before and they loved it and you could actually see them develop and we and we put a couple of the female members the potential leaders in charge of the crews as they were going in and you could see them develop just within the short time of a couple of hours that they really enjoyed it so you know we get that positivity going other that just flows on to other members and it provides an opportunity then further down the track for people to step up because we're all different absolutely that's yeah that's the thing here and yeah we're built differently we're made differently and we'll handle firefighting equipment differently and and that's why it's important to you know as you say those those women's training nights to be able to touch the equipment experience the equipment get an understanding of the equipment how it works and the rest so that they have the confidence next time be able to pick it up and and use it in in operational angle absolutely absolutely so speaking of fantastic women again of of cfa we've got a video here to from Kelly and Kelly is being a bit of a trailblazer in cfa being our first female air attack supervisor that is no mean feat knowing what the training and the certification that someone has to go through to reach this so let's hear from Kelly and her story my name is Kelly Crane and I'm an air attack supervisor my role is to coordinate water bombing aircraft over bushfires and work closely with ground crews before I became an air attack supervisor I was actually an air observer I needed to fly over lots of fires and gain lots of fire experience before I could become an air attack supervisor also then completed a course being an air attack supervisor is very similar to being a crew leader except my trucks have a big bucket or a belly tag I work closely with the incident controller I was originally inspired to become an air attack supervisor after seeing some of my peers performing this role I had such admiration for them and really wanted to do what they were doing I feel very proud to be the very first female air attack supervisor in the cfa it didn't set out to be the very first but I was really lucky to have some mentors who took me under their wings so to say and believed that I could do this role what I love most about this role is working with some of the water bombing pilots they're able to get so close to the fire and do some amazing work that I just didn't know that was possible at the end of the day when the fire activity has been reduced or the fire has been put out altogether that is really rewarding cfa have helped me achieve my goal by building a simulator which has allowed me to practice my skills I've spent countless hours in the simulator the simulator is a cost effective way to be able to provide training to us and hone in our skills and give us lots of practice my future plans in cfa are hoping to become really well skilled in the air attack supervisor role so I can become a mentor to the same level that my mentors mentored me advice I'd give other women who'd like to follow in my footsteps would be anything is possible build yourself a network of positive people that you can rely on and play flight song really loudly all the time well what a fantastic video on a fantastic story and thanks for sharing that Kelly and as we were watching that I heard some some laughter and some smiles how much did that resonate with you as women in cfa oh the mentoring was what I treated on with and I think you know that's a big focus a different role from fighting the fire and I think that's great because it shows you the breadth of roles that women can perform whether it's a rehab truck a secretary a treasurer IMT you don't have to be on the end of a hose and if there's people there to mentor you in a whole lot of different roles let's find the people out there in the community you have the skills that can really contribute to those roles what a great role model though for especially younger members coming through yeah I think it just you know the theme earlier in the evening about that mentoring and why the you know the importance of creating some of these networks that we have been working on is it does give people the opportunity to find a mentor particularly important in those brigades that maybe have one maybe only one female member you know then how do we create networks to just give them some confidence and someone to bounce ideas off that's not to say that they won't find those mentors amongst the members of their brigade and we know that there are you know some fantastic there's some fantastic work happening out there in many many brigades to support all new members and members coming up the kind of leadership chain but we do know that in in some cases we have to just work that much harder to give some of our women a little bit of confidence again it's not universal but there's no downside to it absolutely so Natalie we you know Kelly's our first air attack supervisor and and yeah we we hope and desire and and want many more to follow in Kelly's footsteps but as a as a I guess you know female CEO first first CFA you've had a distinguished career you've been a leader in a lot of organizations it's not easy being the first one no no it's not um so talk us through I guess why members like Kelly why it's so important that you know that you beat the path to success well why wouldn't you you know I mean if you're competent and you've got aspirations why wouldn't you beat the way through I guess that's my first response because you know you're just as capable as anyone else of doing it so why not and I mean there are challenges and there are lots of barriers that can get thrown in your way but there are also many people who are prepared to help support mentor and and give you you know a bit of a good talking to from time to time if your knees get a bit weak and you're kind of worried about things and I think that's important again to find find that you know that that set of people in any job um in any role that can support you if um you know if you need a shoulder to cry on or talk to but but you know we just have to do it it's been too long um for when people haven't been able to take advantage of their skill sets and that's what we're talking about it's about you know performing to the maximum of your capability and you know we want CFA to be a place where everyone is able to do that and that you're not segregated because of your gender or your lack of experience even there's a lot of that in our young people you know if there's ability then we want to take maximum use of that ability and give people an opportunity to shine absolutely and Eric calls one out and says Kelly is absolutely important to all our women members because you can't be what you can't see so um a well a pearl of wisdom from our district 8 member and a shout out to you uh Eric this evening uh we have a new panel member with us this evening uh Mandy welcome thank you chief thank you for coming to Penzos no not a problem at all and you're the group HSE uh member correct important role I was silly enough not to stand back quick enough so tell me so tell me about uh what you do and um how you make it happen I'm the chairperson of the group health safety and environment committee newly elected um Richard's got to learn to type faster um he takes a minute so a member from every uh group within district five come together four times a year we talk about the safety issues that we have um environmental issues and how we're going to tackle those issues and um and you are also a big advocate for training absolutely training tell me more about that um my husband over there in the corner is the group training officer uh and also the district five chairperson of the training committee now the person didn't stand set back quick enough um so we're very passionate um Mauna and I are part of one brigade little brigade out the road here called Gazette and we've got the highest proportion of female members of any brigade in the district I believe so of a membership of 54 members well we've got 12 female members of which we've got eight operational at the moment so we're very proud of that um we've also had a female lieutenant for 10 years on our committee on our BMT Mauna started it um so we've had female leadership representation in our brigade for 10 years which has been really really well supported absolutely so let us in on the secret how does uh how did you manage to to build those numbers and we've had some we've had some champions we've had some people really encouraged us and some people who have really helped us step up to our potential um when we're in yellow we're all equal we've all done the exactly the same training been through the exactly same training packages been on the exactly the same trucks we can do it just as well as the bikes we might do a little differently we don't tend to go like a bullet a gate um like and we don't tend to use a hammer to fix things um but we do get the job done that's that that that's awesome and um so from I guess what roles in that group role where do you see groups in the future uh in particular you know dealing with um issues of diversity and encouraging diversity across cfo we've still got some work to do to be honest we still have some work to do to encourage more women to become dgo's um and to do that we need to encourage people to step up to leadership roles but not only encourage them but allow them to do it so yes we have got some great potential within cfa and women leaders but they've got to be given the opportunity to show that leadership so we've got some work to do I'd like to see a female representation on our district five dpc um because we don't have a voice there at the moment but we're working on that aren't we Richard um the challenge has been put out mr Burke uh let's see if uh district six has set the standard that cfa five can follow um well that's that's fantastic uh Natalie one for you Charlotte on the uh on the question line here says just a question about how we can get involved in things like the international women's day training day I would have loved to attend but I wasn't aware of it so um these these kinds of training activities have been driven from the ground up by and large so um at district level at group level um they are things that the women's networks um you know um at at various levels and our acfos and commanders you know and our instructors have been training so I think sorry promoting if you like and and pushing for so I think Charlotte um and you know happy to sort of have a conversation offline on this one but you know where where we've seen them work is where they're being driven you know from you know from the ground up and um and I think if your district um or area isn't isn't running something like that let's have a conversation and Jason and I'll have a chat with the uh commander and acfo and see if we can get that resolved absolutely I think the women's facebook page is a really good forum for letting promote what's around it off the stage too because some people are really quite prepared to travel to get to that training whether it's a planned burn day yeah and and going back on your comment before about women only firefighting days we had one for gazette and the feedback was that the women felt more confident to ask a question and more confident to grab tools more confident to have a go because they weren't worried about a bloke coming in and taking over and go oh you won't be able to do that I'll do that for you they had that opportunity to have a crack at it themselves and I think yesterday really demonstrated that Natalie did the best bowl of the hose I've seen in a very long time the first one she did perfect um and the second one we won't talk about the third one but um it was really a nice day and everybody felt very well supported and our team of instructors and the pad operators and Renchi's team were just absolutely fantastic so we've heard tonight a couple of mentions of the the women of cfa facebook page so if there are our female members out there wanting to to get involved and connect to it how best can they find it type in women of cfa in the search function um answer a couple of questions is that simple um our volunteers are administering the page I think there's six administrators who are sharing the sort of load of administration and it's just an avenue that people can use to ask questions there's all sorts of you know questions including things like you know what do you do with your hair when you're wearing your structural you know gear etc and those are things people need to have the opportunity to talk about if they're not with in a brigade where there's lots of other people that you can ask advice from some from people who've done it before might sound small thing but just the fact that someone can get on and ask that question is um something that you know makes me pleased I think absolutely and I know uh one of our female um board members Dawn Hartog was very much a a passion for for her and near and dear to her heart and certainly she would love to see uh and participate and certainly been a driver in getting that Facebook page up and running so um a big shout out to you uh Dawn and I do encourage all female cfa members to do the search uh join the women of cfa Facebook page and uh get involved in the conversation because there's some many great things happening uh happening there um so what what do you think are some of the big issues for um you know women members in the cfa into the future flexibility I think it's a big one I think uh we all have different roles in the community we might work we might come home and work on a farm we have caring responsibilities so for people to be able to contribute as much or as little as they are capable of I think the cfa needs to start to accommodate that so I think that's a really key issue the flexibility I know that's got challenges um some of our equipment we really need to have a look at our ppc and our equipment there should not be a pull start quick fill pump anywhere in cfa I know I would struggle if a quick full pump wouldn't start and I had to pull start at 10 times it'd be in the dam so we need to really start thinking about it's not just us ladies but there's also some men and people in our older members as well that would struggle with that so we need to start really thinking about our equipment what we offer the new trucks I don't know you're taller than me Jason but they're nightmare to get into for those of us a short stretcher and then you throw your structural ppc on to get into the truck well that makes it even harder again so we just need to start thinking ahead um we've got a long way to go we need to start thinking ahead to be an inclusive organization we need to think about who's driving the truck who's getting on the back and the roles that we can play and I know if he was here he would have loved to have quickly jumped on the panel and talked all about it tonight that's Rick Owen in the design of the new cfa rescue um appliances which absolutely have been ergonomically designed um and with gender issues you know involved as well and actually not only from the rescue vehicle perspective but again a big shout out to deputy chief officer Brett Boatman when he was in the structural planning space the next generation pumper um was specifically commissioned to ensure that you know it was female friendly um and you know all people of shapes and sizes were able to operate access the equipment uh operate the vehicle and uh and do that thing so and and certainly that's all born from Natalie uh a little thing that we need to do uh legal requirement and and that's that gender impact assessment as part of the jr um they're all important steps that cfa need to do to make sure that we are you know getting the right pumps and equipment I don't particularly want to say too many pumps in the damn but um yeah we need to make sure that we get the right equipment for yeah for our female members yeah and I think importantly and you absolutely nailed it I think Mandy it's it's not just our female members you know it's not everybody's built the same you know and a lot of fire equipment um has been designed for the notion of a traditional firefighter of a certain stature of a certain strength etc um and the large majority of us don't fit in that you know category males and females included and I think you know just having that um in mind is something that we've got to take into account and this is what we why we want to have conversations with some of our um suppliers on on this um kind of thing but you're right Jason we are um now required and this is a good thing not a bad thing to ensure that we are doing gender impact assessments when we're designing new programs new equipment um and it's it's really critical that we do that so that we've got future proofing you know the investments that we're making I think you can see if our urban brigades and our urban interface brigades are doing really well with gender inclusion and diversity yeah it's our rural brigades with sort of the poor cousins in some respects that it hasn't reached that level yet yeah um that the inclusion and willingness to accept um diversity is not quite there yet and it's also in our equipment that rural brigades get to that emphasis that it's equal and easy for us to use isn't there yet um a lot of our equipment's very old our tankers are old that's one of our big issues I think thanks for sharing those thoughts there we have another question from the audience and Jeff is joining us oh good I thanks thanks for coming down this wire it's good to see you we saw you a year or so ago when you first toured down here and you said to come back and tell you whether you're working or not you're not you're not doing too badly there's always a few room for improvement I broke out a cold sweat then right now Manny left her light under a bushel there she's also a dga for our group uh Mount Rouse Group I'm just part of Gazette Group at dga for that for the Mount Rouse Group too and and Maureen was a lieutenant so we are improving a lot and I have to put a lot of that down to Manny's husband Adrian straw who's hiding up the back he's been very helpful very encouraging of females and we've got as Maureen said the highest number of active firefighters in the district female that is which is really good um the one a couple of questions I had to ask you one was about Firecom are you satisfied with Firecom's performance when the proverbial hits the fan in my time I've seen three complete collapses of the communication system uh two were lightning strikes at different times and one was Patrick's day when I could not get on the radio for over 20 minutes and an ex captain finally got on he just kept trying I gave up and he said 1050 and they said what he said 1060 because it was so far gone we knew we were asset protection only but my point was how long the communications committee have been for years I'm getting off it soon um they we asked the people at Ballarat and it took a long time and we got a um a structured answer about one of the lightning strike episodes where they said oh yes we're training more people and we're going to have more people available and we're putting another desk in as if that was going to improve their performance and then we had Patrick's day and the whole lot fell over so my question to you is are you satisfied with the group that's running it their capability I know it's a for profit business but are you satisfied with what we've got look certainly there's been a lot of um yeah public commentary and discussion around Esther and Esther's performance particularly in the triple O call taking space and that resulted in the government investing some three hundred and thirty three million dollars into boosting capability and capacity within within Esther and that will also include call takers and dispatch and receivers in the fire space as well so we we we meet with Natalie myself meet with the Esther CEO and Deputy CEO very regularly yeah and likewise I know our Deputy Chief Officer Gary Cook weeks with senior staff at Esther Wrigley we do monitor Esther's performance and we do raise issues with Esther when we do see performance issues in respect to whether it be time around dispatching brigades or radio traffic congestion decoupling and and and the like so and I know we have been discussing with them more broadly around the issue of radio congestion radio congestion is having an effect on our service delivery standards or SDS reporting of which we have also made that made that a way to government as as well so I think the it is a challenge for Esther currently they are they have just received a significant investment of funds they are going through the recruitment process the reality for them is it takes a considerable amount of time to train operators unfortunately so we will probably have this state of flux for for a period of time and I'm probably thinking about that six month mark while they train and get people on the on the floor to be able to do what they need to do they're acutely aware of the challenges that they have in this space so one of the other things that we're doing to also assist our brigades and particularly again in Gary Cook's area is around the mobility project so installing our our MDTs in in the vehicles in order to have direct connectivity to the cat to ultimately be able to reduce radio traffic so people can you know log on scene do all those sort of things without the need to pick up and clog up the airways so it is one of those things that's a bit like I guess as I've said sometimes it's a bit like the shampoo it won't happen overnight but it will happen they are acutely aware we do raise issues when when we do see them it's like I recently had an issue raised with me from District 14 around some of the radio protocols that some of the operators have been using we jointly raised out with Fire Rescue Victoria and we just recently wrote to Esther to outline the correct radio procedure that our that our volunteers will use so to their credit they're very open to those discussions and issues when we raise it with them we know they're they're they're very much working hard to address some of the challenges that they do have I guess from our perspective we probably need to be a little bit more patient with them whilst they get people hired trained and into those positions in action is it in action and hasn't quite happened yet but I think we could do with an improvement there the other side of things I was going to briefly mention we were after a new truck a second hand new truck for the Gazette Brigade we're still it restricted a lot of our activity to a two-wheel drive truck and we had original two-wheel drive truck which had a petrol motor on the back quite a reasonable truck they took it away on the safety side of things well we've got one that's a lot less safe yes it's got a diesel pump it wanders around like a like a zigzag on the road DMO people tell me that the tyres were all purchased in a lump lot for CFA and we're stuck with them it's been looked at many times it's not something that encourages people to go out on runs or for real fast tricks yeah we're looking for another one we will promised a double cab four-wheel drive and apparently six months later it's no longer going to occur so we're not terribly happy about it we might have a chat about it later on well the benefit of I guess the benefit of that is you've got both your Ackfield and your DCO in the room here tonight gentlemen um the right people in the room to resolve that issue for you um we'll take that one on notice that's good we've got three DGA's from Mount Rouse group here too thank you very much and we all belong to Gazette all right we have another question tonight from Steve thanks chief thanks Natalie for coming tonight and thanks for all our panelists tonight it's it's been a very very good thus far my question is I'm a I'm the group officer at the Merrill group which is the area surrounding Warnable and as a role in the group officer it's given me opportunity to take a more of a strategic view of you know what's happening in our group and my concern and across the group is the retention and the sort of volunteer recruitment and retention of our volunteers so it's a real concern we we're looking like you know there's a lot of people that are in leadership roles that have you know are getting older and you know looking at sort of you know and members on that are turning out to jobs a lot of grey hairs around and it's good to see some some younger people here like Chris as the captain at Cavendish yes and but we need to sort of really start focusing on more on you know younger people and giving them a pathway into leadership roles as well you understand tonight with you know the the International Women's Day and the Women's Firefighters it's a great start but you know we really need to knuckle down this soon otherwise we're going to get we're going to sort of fall short yeah can I can I sort of respond look I completely agree and I think one of our challenges so just looking at the stats coming through the volunteer recruitment hub in the last six months so there were 1,300 applications and 800 of them were under 34 so we're arguably we're attracting you know a younger cohort what's a little bit more disturbing is we're seeing them drift out the other end because they're not being given opportunities and this is certainly the feedback through the young adults advisory committee they're keen they want to be involved but they're not necessarily getting opportunities to kind of experience you know their skills etc now some of that could be that younger people are impatient and you know want to kind of get you know that experiential stuff straight away but I think it's a really interesting thing for the group potentially to have a look at and we can potentially get statistics you know exit surveys etc one of the reasons that people one of the often one of the key reasons people leave CFA is the culture of the brigade so you know there's a question there about what's happening but I think you know the other thing is how are the how is how are the views of young people just like we've had this conversation today about women how are we gathering them in so how are we at the group level gathering some feedback from our younger members about what's working what isn't and I'd be really keen to kind of hear maybe afterwards you know some views on how we can support that and how we can help with those things we're certainly throughout imagery trying to do a lot more imagery of diverse you know a diverse members that it's not all people who look exactly the same you know and trying to promote that work we've got some activity around you know sort of a recruitment it's not a campaign you know but some material that Sally and her team are working on which we can use in social media and all of those sorts of things that's quite vibrant and you know interesting but what we absolutely know is that it's what happens at the local level that makes the difference and I think that's that's absolutely right we are because we've been asked for a while to you know what are we doing about promoting CFA recruitment that's sort of stuff and and certainly as his Sally and her team have put together a fantastic I'm going to use the word campaign program what would be campaigns probably where yeah they give us a hand that's my thing and you know you will start seeing that more and more in out and about in in the community in the coming coming weeks and months but Natalie's absolutely right it getting them in the door is one thing keeping people you know engaged you know active and wanting to stay in a brigade is another thing I know that's probably some of the challenges for our brigade leadership teams in how do you you know everyone's busy and that's how do you sort of make the time to keep everyone engaged and participate in those activities so like Craig I guess from from your perspective how you know is the story Steven's telling resonate with you and in your absolutely absolutely and it's interesting that the the data we only got a couple of days ago from Michelle Wintle about our volunteer numbers that in District 6 our greatest cohort of operational members are aged 61 to 65 so if we look at that over and say another four five years time they're into their some of them are going to be into their 70s yeah so it's a real problem for us and especially and probably not only just in District 6 but also around the state in some of those areas declining rural communities where you just don't have the young people that volunteer anymore because they're no longer there and especially with a lot of the farms have been taken over by corporate farming entities farmers buying out their neighbors we just don't have that cohort to recruit from anymore so it is becoming a problem especially for a lot of our class 1 and class 2 brigades and what we see sometimes is that the outer urban brigades the bigger structural brigades they're the ones that are getting a lot of the younger members because they've they've got a lot of people they can draw from and B there's a lot more action you know and spot on Steve the to try and retain a young person in a brigade that gets one call a year or two calls a year it's very difficult I think the other thing that's really dragging us back at the moment I hate to say it is our training because a lot of our leadership training you can't at the moment do a course past crew I don't think you can even do crew later at the moment after our core focus has been on general firefighter and respond to urban and after that there is nothing some of us have been waiting three years to do courses and they're not running how do you keep people engaged if you can't offer them what they want to do well and certainly that's yeah that's one of the challenges that jeans been been working on and we heard in the update tonight around the the 2023 priorities for the training department as you saw crew leader you know the control little one incident they're all they're all there because that that's what we're hearing Mandy from from the people around you know we need that training we need that I fear that we're going to have a generation gap most members of CFA you've got seven years to engage them you've got seven years to train them to a level that they want to stay if we don't do that within seven years they either turn into a submarine member or walk out the door and that's what stays finding down his way is if we don't engage them and we don't give them the opportunities they walk out the door so we haven't been able to run some of our IMT courses or our sector commander bushfire behaviour courses for three years so at the rate we're going we're not going to be able to run for another three years you've lost a generation through right I certainly know the training department and I'm looking at Rowan at the side of my eye here three years you do not have you know it is they are acutely aware I know I know the team are working frantically to to get up because if they've heard I said they've heard the plot of animals and they're doing everything they can to ensure that we get back to where you know to where we need to be so thank you for your question Stephen you've invoked a lot of discussion and it's a it's a challenge it's a topic that's that is quite near and dear to many people across the state so thank you very much I'm keen to check after it yeah thank you not a problem we have another question from Aaron welcome Aaron thank you very much um look thanks very much first of all for coming here to our little corner of the world and celebrating International Women's Day with us in District 5 it's absolutely honour and pleasure um my question is slightly esoteric it's about fleet management but I want to put it in the context and the fact that we're in a world where we've got ever diminishing budgets ever increasing pressures to get better equipment tools new stations and everything else as well we know HR issues with trying to retain people within CVA corporate trying to retain the best people cost a lot of money as well 12 months ago Hino Japan actually admitted and I came here after a Japanese investigation that the engines that they've been proposing were supposed to be fuel efficient and meet Euro standards didn't actually reach those levels so we've got entire generation of vehicles in Australia but in the CFA especially that don't actually do what they're supposed to do now it doesn't mean we can't drive them it doesn't mean we can't meet a lot of obligations what it does may know is that just like the old Volkswagen issue a few years ago that we have vehicles that don't actually do what they're supposed to do so the CFA effectively has been paying a lot of money for more fuel to make the fleet go Morris Blackburn at the moment is trying to scrape the barrel I'm like ambulance chases tend to do but try and do a class action on behalf of Australians from any vehicle built after 2003 to the current generation at the moment to try and do a class action I know CFA is not in the business of trying to do ambulance chasing but would the CFA seriously consider joining that class action to actually get back some of that money and we're talking potentially millions for the CFA to be able to reinvest into our fleet I mean we've got a 30 year lifespan for our trucks now because we can't meet our asset renewal obligations but this could go part of that way to try and do close some of that back money's gone sideways so I guess a couple of things to touch on there in respect to I guess class actions and the actions of a particular law firm I'll leave that there look I think it's it is fleet management and investment today and into the future is a challenge for CFA and I know it's something that's near and dear to your heart Natalie yeah and we are undertaking a whole of like basshead planning process at the moment I think the challenge for CFA into the future is not necessarily about you know what a manufacturer did or didn't say about emission standards or the rest of it it's about what is the future of trucks in Australia and by extension emergency services so we see the ACT of now putting into into operation electric pumpers so that yeah we see the proliferation of EV vehicles in Australia which is leading to I'm going to say other other other other issues yeah but it's not without you know even CFA our our pool vehicles are EV you know I think there's a conversation piece to be had around what is the future of fire truck you know will they be diesel powered into the future will they not and what is the sustainable energy solution for you know fire services across the country to emergency services across the country when you know the EU and the rest of it are driving those efficiency standards that means that diesel propulsion into the future is probably not going to be viable for a manufacturer to make so CFA ultimately will be forced to make certain decisions down down down the track so I think your questions you know I really thought provoking one in terms of as I said what is what is the truck of the future for CFA and what does that mean moving forward for you know petrochemical propulsion versus you know EV and I think where you know we've got what 3000 vehicles 3000 appliances or more probably more so any decisions we make on anything it's got a long tail to play out because as much as I would like to think that government would give us money for 3000 new things I can't see that happening anytime soon so you know we've got a you know we've got a challenge as everybody in this room knows and everyone listening or watching knows about that you know rolling the fleet and moving it over which is why we're doing this work on you know the whole of life asset planning which we haven't been able to do up to this point but we're looking at that so we can inform government and say all right this is when things are running down in terms of class actions that those are not decisions for the CFA those are decisions for government they'll tell us whether they want us to get involved in those things like I said it was very esoteric and you know look we're not there are many you know I know from my work with AFAC you know there are you know always issues in emergency services about whether it's SES or you know CFA or RFS or whatever there are always issues that we're aware of where manufacturers haven't necessarily delivered exactly what they said they were going to deliver it seeing how you make sure that you know rectification processes are in place and that other entities aren't being exposed to the similar sort of issues but yeah it is it is quite complex so thanks for your question Aaron and I hope I hope our answer wasn't too esoteric or to match your question so thank you for for that thank you well ladies and gentlemen that time has come where yet again we must bring the forum to a close I'd like to take the opportunity to thank each and every one of you who are online watching this evening and to our live audience thank you for taking the time out of your time and day to come in and help us celebrate International Women's Day but also join the conversation in sharing the discussion of and of many issues that are affecting our members today and into the future as always a replay of our forum tonight will be available on YouTube and available through our members online so if you manage to miss any part of tonight's forum you can go back and and re-watch that we always can your feedback what you want to see in future forums and where future forums might like to be hosted and you can provide that feedback by sending an email to internal columns at cfa.vic.gov.au our next volunteer forum will be on the 23rd of March yes that's right you're getting two for the price of one this month at Marootna where we'll be celebrating yet again a fantastic championships urban and senior and junior championships combined it's going to be a fantastic event and we're looking forward to seeing our teams compete in what will be what yet again a fantastic weekend so I look forward to meeting up with you and seeing you and and having yet another live audience at Marootna to our panel Natalie McDonald, Craig Britton, thank you for coming along it's always great to have our senior leaders on the on the on the panel Mona thank you Mandy thank you for sharing your insights your valuable insights and the great work that you've done here in District 5 likewise Chris please and thank you and Darren Wrench thank you for having us here at the Pennshurst training facility it's free open and available and Darren wants to finish the forum tonight with the plug please come on in fantastic facilities you know the kind staff here are really accommodating and wanting to do everything they can to help you and your brigade train on any scenario so with that thank you very much to our panelists thank you very much to all of us and thank you for you for joining and I wish you a safe night and see you at Marootna