 It must have an impact. It must have a purpose. And this purpose can only be the one to make our future better, to make it worth living on this planet. And for this, we need not only to develop vaccines against COVID, we need vaccines also for the planet. Our planet is sick. We need to develop these vaccines. And here innovation comes in, here innovation must have an impact, must develop the solutions to cure the planet and avoid breaking of planetary boundaries. Dr. Roland Strauss is my guest on this special episode of Inside Ideas brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. Roland is one of the most influential figures within the European innovation landscape for well over a decade. In his role as managing director of the non-profit Knowledge for Innovation, he has been the driving force behind the European Innovation Summit held annually in the European Parliament, which brings European commissioners and MEPs face to face with the needs of the companies, organizations, ideas and startups driving innovation across the continent. Now as Europe begins laying out its plan for delivering on its vision to become the first climate neutral continent by 2050, it is the role of innovation that will again take center stage. As the key innovation platform at the heart of the European institutions with the support of dozen MEPs, it is the K4I form in the European Parliament sitting at the crossroads between politics, business, startups, academia and wider society, which is perfectly placed to help define the leading role it will play in achieving this net zero future. Right now, Dr. Strauss and K4I are doing that most notably by leading the charge for the development of a European innovation area, a single ecosystem for innovation across the continent that can harness the collective power of progress to achieve a just transition towards a sustainable Europe that truly works for all. The journey towards achieving this ecosystem is well underway. Roland has been working on it for a long time, but the inaugural European innovation area summit led by K4I is set to take place in the European Parliament next month. So this is the perfect time to welcome Roland and discover more about this European innovation area and its first ever live summit in the Parliament. Welcome Roland, it's good to see you. Yeah, good to see you, Mark. I'm so glad you can make it. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to me. You've been doing this for a long time, kind of leading the innovation front in the Parliament and on the continent to make sure that we're on the right side of history. My first question is, how have you weathered the storm? How have you weathered the pandemic, the Ukraine war, the crazy presidencies, all the things going on in the world to get you to this point in time? How have you been? Yeah, it has been not easy times because having not been able to meet in the European Parliament physically with our members of the European Parliament, with our stakeholders, with our innovation community was quite a tough time. Only a few days ago, for the first time, we were able to go back to the Parliament and meet some of our members, our political members, which are members of the European Parliament physically in the European Parliament. And we are ready to start over, but not just as a continuation, but as in a new setting with a new approach, with a new innovation agenda, which we call the European Innovation Area. So we decided to not organize the 13th European Innovation Summit, but the first European Innovation Area Summit. I love that. I think it's great. So I mean, you obviously with the 13th you've been doing this for quite some time over a decade and I really want to know for those of us who are naive or don't know a lot who are listening about innovation and why it's necessary. Why do we need innovation? Why are we having these summits? Why are we bringing this onto the continent to talk about why is that important? The European Innovation Area Initiative is about strengthening innovation ecosystems at the local regional and national levels and better connecting them across Europe. We are aiming at a kind of single market for innovation because there are still quite some fragmentations in different important areas. Innovation and technological leadership is the only way for the EU to maintain a strong, sustainable and competitive economy. That China would one day assume technological leadership in key industries was considered inconceivable some years ago. Now it has become a reality. We must by all means strengthen Europe's innovation capacity, and this is why we need a new innovation agenda for Europe. There are some obvious reasons why Europe needs to improve its innovation performance. We still have a lack of entrepreneurial spirit. We have a lack of later stage mental capital to avoid also that fast growing startups for elsewhere outside Europe. We still have far too many regulations, especially for emerging technologies, and we have too little investments in women led venture capital funds and startups to name just a few. The eight focus areas as described in the European Innovation Area Manifesto provide a good overview and summary of the objectives that we have set for innovation in Europe in the future. So that I'm glad you you brought that up so the if people go to the European innovation area dot EU. That's the website they can find out about the summit there. It will be the 27th to the 30th of June this year in Brussels and online so it's kind of a hybrid event as well so that it'll be available for for many people. I'm, I'm glad that you you tickled on on the manifest on that, but I want to break it down even further for the daily citizen or are within the European Union. Why, why is this innovation important. Why, why, why do we need innovation. Why are we talking about this is this help us understand is it a new delivery app or what what kind of innovations are you talking about what what are the discussions, heading there, and why do we need them help us understand that a little bit better. The beginning of the K for I knowledge for innovation activities in the European Parliament, our objective was to make innovation, the top priority for for Europe. This has been at least partly achieved. We now have a dedicated pillar in in Europe's flagship program for research and innovation horizon Europe. So it's innovative Europe. It is a new approach and a very well risky approach, especially considering that governments start investing in in startups and even providing equity capital. So, a lot has has been achieved, I think, over the past few years and we made quite some, some progress on the way from research to innovation. There was some for some people, it was a bit confusing to see what what what is research what is innovation what what should we do where should be the focus, because we have a European research area we even have their European education area, but now is the time to have a European innovation area and we can all agree of that and innovation must have a new, a new task plays a new role, it must be. It must have an impact, it must have a purpose. And this, this purpose can only be the one to make our future better to make it worth living on this planet and for this, we need not only to develop vaccines against covered, we need vaccines also for the planet. Our planet is sick, we need to develop these vaccines. And here innovation comes in here innovation must have an impact must develop the solutions to cure the planet and avoid breaking of planetary boundaries. So, in this sense, innovation has become a much more clear and precise role and the clear purpose. And this is what we want to focus on in the future. I love that and so I'm sorry I was leading you a little bit with the questioning but I knew that it would come out so I know that knowledge for innovation for a while has really been talking about innovations for purpose impact innovations for purpose that solve human suffering, our global grand challenges and provide solutions to a better operating system for our earth a better model to do things. And in the innovation space for a while and meeting the new pioneers and the startups bringing out new technologies and in many different areas and so I get this a lot and I also see those innovations that kind of fizzle out and they don't bring up much because they're not transformative. And I like the fact that now we're presenting at the EU and a parliament area that innovations that truly can help us get on the right side of history and that are transformative. I see a lot a lot of the time is that we have this change or project mindset when it comes to innovations or or moving into the transformations needed in the future. For those listening who are innovators and pioneers and startups. It's really interesting for an important to know that you can if I'm right and I want you to tell me this Roland, you can still submit your idea your action plan to this transformation and to the program to be present possibly some things am I correct as that door is still open. Sure it's widely open it's widely open because each innovator, each startup, everyone, citizens are invited to sign up the manifesto European innovation area manifesto and submit their ideas, it can be. We have seen full action plans by by organizations such as the the universities of applied science network in Europe that's that submitted their action plan for the European innovation area, we see the European innovation, the European Institute of technology of innovation and technology, the different in the different verticals from raw materials to climate to energy food, health, they they're all contributing to renew our our innovation agenda and to move forward in addressing the challenges that we are facing right now, but we must take into consideration what what these last 200 years of innovation have have done, because we did it without really considering what it would do to our environment to the planet. Certainly, we need innovations that not only take into into consideration, the, the consequences of of these innovations but but address very specifically the, the, the big challenges we are facing right now in terms of climate and environment. So we, we invite all innovators and stakeholders to sign the manifesto and by the way, those who sign will also get automatically an invitation to the first European innovation area summit. And, and we, we want to to discuss the ideas that we receive and put them together and discuss them with the policymakers and Commissioner Maria Gabrielle and our political members. The KPI forum, which is led by Mrs Carvalho, who is a Portuguese MEP, who is very supportive together with with many other MEPs. And while all together we want to take these ideas these actions and see how we can in a meaningful way and in an impactful way draw the right policy framework the right regulatory and let's legislative framework so that these innovations can also unfold and and and and have the impact that that is intended. You're really lucky and fortunate to have the Commissioner Maria Gabrielle on board she is fabulous a super representative and so I'm glad to to hear that. You know, in the past I've dealt and heard, heard horror stories about how difficult it is to, to work with the EU and the parliament as there are any innovations or things that have kind of made innovations and working in the systems of that bureaucratic spectrum of submitting forms to get grants and fundings and support for new pioneers and innovators coming into the arena. Has that been made any easier or through this, this process of the summit, do you have tools and helps and things that make it available for those on the ground bottom up pioneers and innovators to kind of get into that ecosystem to to offer some solutions. Thank you Mark, especially for this question because one of the purpose of the European innovation area is to to to foster innovation cohesion to bring the innovators from all corners of Europe in and also use the the funds that are provided by a big number of programs at the at the EU and national levels, and especially now the recovery fund, which is almost as big as as the whole EU budget. So for the next two, three years, we have 750 billion euro extra that can be spent and should be spent, not only to recover, but to build this next generation EU this next generation innovations. And for this, we must make and make big efforts to widen the participation in what the EU does and and go beyond the usual suspects that are that are that know how to get involved that know how to to write a proposal. But now is the time to get everybody on board and mobilize everybody and we have, we have the means. It's big money that has been made available, and we are planning to launch also at the summit. The next generation innovation forum where we invite member states to support with this budget this extra budget that they get to support the innovators in their countries to contribute to to to develop this impact innovations and be part of this next movement that we we need and that that is a great great opportunity for all of us to to turn the page and work together together. And next generation for me it means it means a lot it's not only younger people, but it's also rethinking how we work, how we live, how we consume. It's a kind of next generation world. But I absolutely love it that that's that's very hopeful and optimistic outlook that that it's the point of entry is a lot easier and that it's really has some momentum of what's possible and available. You're primed in a wonderful position with the EU and Brussels and what's going on and that this event can happen there. There is another innovator, Dr Bertrand McCard with 1000 solutions I don't know how well you know him, but he just last year broke the record and he won to go over his 1000 solutions he's actually received more than 1000 innovations and solutions and his seal of approval or requirement on that is that they're not just innovations for purpose, but that they meet the the three tier model of the people planet and profit so the triple bottom line which which he recalled by the way that the profit part of it is from day one a viable business model. And so I want to hear from you. Just like Bertrand McCard and 1000 solutions are you also filling that resonance that there's more innovators more pioneers with solutions that are using the right models for success for impact for for these innovations for purpose are in on the continent that are submitting and out there, or is it still at a phase where it's hard to find the right innovators to join. Well, I'm glad that you mentioned Bertrand Picard, because we, we met for lunch in Paris, a couple years ago, and then I invited him to come to the European Parliament in Brussels. And he was our keynote speaker for what we call the EU top 50 startups competition, which we organized in the Holly Hall of the European Parliament, meaning the the hemicycle of the European Parliament I think it was a unique, unique event, ever, ever around the world. We have seen a start a pitching event in the plenary hall of the parliament. So, Bertrand Picard was there. And, and it was very gave a very inspiring speech. And prior to that, we met at COP 21 in Bonn. I remember when he he launched his initiative for 100 solutions. And well, now it's time to, to liaise back and and see how we can further perceive pursue our common goals. For this I have planned a new initiative which is less think tank and the debating organization but more do tank. The working title is a light for future and there we want, not only to, to have the policy support, but also get all kinds of support for the innovators to develop the, these new technologies and in particular, the needed capital and investment. And for this we, we will set up a fund that is will be dedicated to those new technologies and innovations that fulfill very strict sustainability criteria. But for sure. And I remember, I think I remember Arnold Schwarzenegger, having, having explained, because everybody said, well, this, this green economy, we will not be competitive, it will not strengthen our economy, it will cost us a lot of money, and so on. And he explained when, when he was a governor in California, and that the contrary, the contrary was, was the case. I mean, certainly the maximization of profit goal as we have been as we do so far, cannot at least be the only objective that we that we pursue. We must have these sustainability objectives, but one does not exclude the other, I think the future green industries will be economically and from an employment perspective and a competitiveness perspective be the ones to go for all those that will not enshrine the the ESG goals and sustainability goals in their business model, they will be out in a few years. So the new way to work can only go in this direction. It's absolutely true that it will go in that direction and we've seen it time and time again, especially during this last two and a half years or more of really economic downturn pandemic and many other issues going on in the world we've seen that the sustainable models for organizations and business and for life that envelope SDGs the ESG the taxonomies that just came out from the EU are more resilient there as a it's a better model. And we're also seeing a lot of organizations and companies come out with planetary services as a core of their model for business and these are innovations like companies like Climeworks and we just saw regenerative regeneration venture capital come out with Leonardo DiCaprio and Cradle to Cradle founder Bill McDonough and and many others that are switching to this regenerative economic principle or this regenerative model for doing business kind of this planetary services innovations for purpose that matter that help transform and reach those transformations. So I'm really loving that and we're seeing that it's a better, better model, they outperform their conventional counterparts I mean just a boiling slate to the ocean cleanup project and and Climeworks and that capturing carbon through direct air capture and things like that these are innovations that we need hundreds of thousands of to start making a dent in the problems that that we have, but that they're just a better model because there's this unique equation that most most mathematicians would probably disagree but when you put it in the biological or life or environmental context. And this one rarely equals to when you're talking about earth systems when you're talking about biological systems, when you're talking about services for the planet or just using a better model for life. Those are exponential numbers and so if you involve those into your, your business model or into your innovation. That's where the true growth is I made a controversial statement I was speaking to Deloitte 3000 consultants from Deloitte here in Humberg at the Congress Hall. And I made a statement I said the next green entrepreneur, the next trillionaire will be a green entrepreneur. What I meant by that is not because of the capitalism or the money. If you solve a million people's problems. You're a millionaire if you're solve a billion people's problems you're a billionaire, and we have a lot of problems we have a lot of issues that will get us that that need transformation. And we know some big monies are out there and so it wasn't really about the wealth or the capitalism aspect of it but it was about offering these services is just an exponentially better model. And that's why I think we will see some green entrepreneurs out there that are doing extremely well, and their model has nothing to do with selling a product that has to do with leaving the planet better than we found it and that's what I like. And I see out of this European innovation area. Can you tell me what stage is that right now and is there anything that we're missing on, besides the manifesto and kind of what you're going forward that we've missed so far about what to expect and what it'll look like and how it will evolve. We are very much looking forward to the upcoming European Commission communication by by Commissioner Gabriel, which is very much in line with the European innovation area. And, well, the working title at least is Europe's future innovation agenda. And, and we, we hope that that this, this policy framework and will also give an extra impetus to to the efforts made by by the innovators and will make it easier to innovate and will provide for an environment that is encouraging this this green transition that we are focusing or aiming at. So, that brings me to a big statement of what the aim is on the European Union level or commission level, President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen I if I'm saying her name right said that the goal for Europe is to become the first climate neutral continent by 2050. I tend to roll my eyes a little bit but I want to take it very seriously. What is the EIA being designed to ensure innovation will play a big part in realizing this vision of neutrality by 2050, and in supporting those objectives, like the enshrine, like those that are enshrined in the European Green Deal. And I won't make any personal comments because I really wonder, do we need to be net carbon neutral or is that really the goal is that the right objective. I think the green deal is, is a great project. But the difficulty with great projects is to, to make them happen. I mean, for example, the, the discussions about the green financing the taxonomy and the fight, whether we would keep gas and nuclear as technologies in which we should continue to to invest. And with the, with the war in Ukraine. We got so more many challenges and the risk is that we deviate a bit from from our objectives and here I see the role of our initiative of innovation to to not. Water down the ambitions and the needs that we have. I just read this morning by the way that the most valuable company. Aramco, the oil company and they just passed by Apple, a little, a little bit, but it shows how how the war and these considerations or fears about energy are changing the dynamics in, in, in, in all ways. And what we have to, to, to do is to make sure that Europe stays on track with, with the Green Deal objectives and does not, does not slow down, because it's also a matter of urgency. We cannot wait endlessly to do what what needs to be done to, to, to save the planet. Our, our role in this sense is to make sure that the Commission and the European Parliament do not water down any of these objectives and, and go ahead as planned. But I, a couple, couple of things that I see there and I mean this is personal I'd love to hear your opinion but I don't also want to want to get too political. I think if we go carbon neutral, that means that we're flat lining that we're dead, you know, we were carbon based beings are growing food we need carbon, we need to capture carbon and, and deal with it. But I think we need to get there I think we should be like Paul Pullman and his book net positive and Andrew Winston have talked about that we should leave the planet better than we found it we should actually capture carbon and we should leave a positive impact on on the way we do business and so I mean that's that's one, one thing I think that when we're saying this net net zero or carbon neutral goal. I think it's a rough target the other one that kind of gets me is 2050. So that's 28 years from now. Don't you think with your knowledge of innovations and how to make moon shots and use the exponential function that that goal of 2050 is a little bit too far out in the future. One, when those commissioners will no longer be around, who are making those rules and the MEPs will no longer be around. We're not a little bit too far in the future to be able to hold people's feet to the fire to really make some some actions and aren't we saying hey we really don't believe in innovation and in an exponential function of innovations that we can do it in a much shorter time. I'm a little bit afraid of human behaviors in the sense that as long as it does not really hurt. We do not feel the urgency, but, but I think it has become very obvious by by as of today that that we have no time to lose that we that we need to find in particular, as you said to to get out the carbon from the atmosphere because we are very close to reaching the limit or the point of no return. So even if we achieve the Green Deal objectives. It might not be enough for the saturation of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere to be kept within the limits that we need so we need innovations to get the carbon out of the atmosphere. We need innovations and new technologies that avoid the melting of the glaciers and the rising of the oceans so. Ideally, we would find solutions, such as nuclear fission where where we can develop energy as much as we need in a clear in a clean way so no time to lose. In the country we have to accelerate our our efforts to find the solutions and and and the innovations that allow us to to to avoid the breaking of the of the planetary boundaries. The the comment you made earlier where where you just read an article about or amical overtaking Apple and kind of being one of the new companies just two days ago I read a new article as well from the Guardian that there's the oil coal and fossil fuel industry is creating what we call climate bombs, basically by their doubling down and their daily actual daily and the hundreds of millions of dollars that are being invested daily in fossil fuels is creating these tipping points of of what the I guess a new term that they're coming out these climate bombs that are really work a bet against our future. It's an investment in a bet against the negative future so we're actually investing or putting money into something that we know has a negative outcome there's no. There's no model out there in the world that shows fossil fuels as a long term model being good for our planet and when you combine that with with what you said earlier as well about the Ukraine. If we were to take food as a commodity off of the table, which comes from the Ukraine if we were to take fossil fuels off the table that are coming from Russia. A lot of these problems with the war and issues that we're dealing with it would be non existent because there wouldn't, there would be other. I'm sure we could find other things to fight or complain or worry about, but those two negative things would really make this whole Ukraine war pretty non existent or wouldn't be a reason to to go on that way that craziness that's my opinion but I just really think that that we need innovations. There's no purpose that aren't based off of old technologies always say you're not going to invent the new Tesla or the new rocket ship with a horse and buggy, you've got to think of it in a different way, you know, Einstein's problem is that we really need to come up with innovations and technologies that get us off of these problems that we have food as a commodity or off of fossil fuels or extractive economies. What core things or policies or pillars do you have built in for K4I but also into the EIA and the summit that are kind of pushing or nudging those who are coming on board or the MEPs or the commissioners to really think, not only multi generational, but to think, how do we implement technologies in an expedient timeframe to get us to where we need to be. That's a difficult one. You know, I think they are all aware and more than aware. It's rather about making choices and having a good will and being interested in the future being interested in the next generation. And I think if these attitudes are there, then the urgency that everybody can feel will make us do all the efforts possible to cope with the problems and find the solutions and go all together in one direction. Because the good thing with the problems that we have is that they concern all of us and it's all our future, our all future and this is why I still hope that the necessary efforts, investments, policy frameworks, innovation developments, whatever is needed to get this green industrial revolution going will be made. And if I would have the responsibility as a policymaker, I would not want one day to admit that I have not done my job. That's great and I love on the website of the EIA summit. You have this and you mentioned it earlier in our conversation, the European Innovation Area Manifesto. I want to, I'd like you to tell us more about that but you also said, not only can we sign this manifesto, we can kind of help shape it by becoming a part of this, this process and to make sure that we hold the elements feet to the fire to make sure we are getting and going where we want to go. Can you tell us more about the manifesto and what it is and I hear that it's really that boundaries, that guideline to keep us on the right path to where we want to go. Yeah, I mean there are eight focus areas. They're all described on the website and signatories are invited to come up with with ideas in each of the focus areas they can do it online directly from their desk from their computer. And we collect all the inputs and we'll find ways to submit it and discuss it with the policymakers. So it's an opportunity for each and everyone to come up with ideas to propose solutions and to be part of this next generation innovation in Europe. I love it. And I love that it's participants just like the SDGs just like the Millennium Development Goals that was a project, everyone is something that people in advance could participate in that's for everyone and so I love that people who want to contribute to help shape the future and shape the innovations really can participate in that. How important of a moment do you think the summit will be in the journey towards achieving a vibrant European innovation area. Well for me it could not come at a better time, because the time is now and now we have to take the right decisions now we can fortunately meet each other again personally. And look into each other's eyes when we agree on something and when we promise something and when we propose some actions. I think it's different if you are face to face with people and can look into each other's eyes. So I'm very much looking forward to this event after two and a half years of absence in the European Parliament. And I think it's the right time it's also the time of the new Commission innovation agenda and Commissioner Gabriel will certainly take the opportunity and and speak about it. And also engage into discussions so we also plan to take some of the ideas and actions proposed to be presented at the summit and and ask the Commissioner for one or the other idea what she's thinking about it and have a real dialogue between the stakeholders and and the policymakers and this occasion. One of the main themes of the summit is really about the critical impact innovations and how they will play in creating a sustainable future. Can you tell us a little bit more about this and what what you what you see as how they create this is more sustainable future. Well, sustainability is now used by by everybody. And for all kinds of purposes I would even I would even say, but while we want to make sure that these innovations and and their purpose, respect clear and strict criteria that and address. In a very straightforward and clear way. The, the, the problems and result in a in a measurable impact. So this is what, what I would understand about this it's not just nice to have innovations but innovations that that make a change. And, and are you using this similar measurement tool or so kind of like Bertrand cards 1000 solutions or do you have some, some things already in place that quantify that is that the triple bottom line is that other other tools that the users to kind of measure that impact and the sustainability aspect of those innovations that for purpose. We're not yet there but we, we certainly consider existing tools and approaches such as the sustainable development goals or ESG criteria. But what we want to do is, is to be very specific when it comes to the problem we address and the solutions that can have an impact. So, also, and in particular when it comes to financing these, these innovators and these innovations, these criteria will and must apply very strictly, maybe more strictly than what we understand by by green finance. Well, in the everyday discussions. Yeah, that's that's interesting that you, you say that so I mean we know for this to reach the sustainable development goals had we started in and 2015 would have needed about 90 trillion US dollars to to make that achievement of sustainable development by 2030 at 2006 on the in the first week on Thursday in in Glasgow, basically more Carney and his in the general plan area of the United Nations committed to 130 trillion US dollars. That had nothing to do with the NDCs of the country delegations and the country party so it's basically all private banks and green finance bonds and private organizations that said they will step up to the plate with 130 trillion US dollars to make sure that we reach the sustainable development goals in the Paris agreement. Now holding their feet to the fire to make sure those monies get dispersed and placed in the right place by 2030 is a whole another process that's still in debate and deliberation. Do you feel hopeful and optimistic because of statements like that or do you have hope on the horizon, you mentioned large dollar amounts are large money amounts for the EU that there is enough money that there is enough political will out there to to to reach our goals for the Green New Deal for the SDGs. The money is probably not the biggest problem. We need to have this blended finance approach but with the with the recovery fund if Member States agree to jointly invest in this green transition. We would have startup capital, let's say from a couple of a couple hundred of billion euros, which, which could easily trigger private investment of amounts that you were just mentioning that that are needed to do this green transition so we have the possibility we have the money. We have the people we will be able to develop the technologies needed but well there needs to be a political will and we have to give the freedom to to the innovators and support them to to develop these new technologies that that can make the difference. I love that. This is the hardest question I have for you today and it's really one I ask all my guests. It's what does a world that works for everyone look like for you, not the EU not knowledge for innovation but for you role and what does a world that works for everyone look like for you. It must be equitable. And it must be respectful respectful from humans towards the planet. From humans to humans and we must create a basis of trust where this respect of what we have been given is is realized and that we have to give back what we got. So that's my understanding. I love that. How can individuals and organizations be part of the EIA summit we've kind of tickled and talked about it. If you're meeting someone new on the street they never heard about it. What's your advice how can they be part of that what do they need to do to be involved and and get on board. Sorry, I can only repeat it. It is by signing the manifesto like this day. They are part of the of the community they are part of the innovation area, and not only with the signature or a photo or a company logo, but they have the possibility to concretely contribute and actively engage in our work. What have you experienced or learned in this this journey that you've taken in the EU and the parliament and knowledge for innovation. So far, what have you experienced or learned that you would have loved to know from the beginning from the start. Well that it's much more difficult than I thought in the beginning. But Europe is a complex animal. It takes a lot of time to come to to conclusions to to to come to decide jointly to agree jointly. And I'm wondering, and I was always wondering whether we have enough time to to be able to continue with this complex procedures that we have. We have the future of Europe conference that discusses how Europe is functioning and and is addressing certain of these these bottlenecks that that makes it difficult for us to move forward as fast as we would need. I hope that that, well, there will also be a kind of next generation Europe that will be able to address the, our problems in in in a faster and more direct way than than it is the case now because it takes too much time. Oftentimes, I totally agree. Absolutely agree. Thank you so much for letting us all inside of your ideas and talking to us about the first European innovation area summit. It's been an absolute sheer pleasure. That's all the questions I have for you unless there's really something we didn't get to discuss that you wanted to let us know about about the the 27th to the 30th of June or anything that that we've we left out or forgot. Are there any other things on the horizon that we should know about new policy pillars or anything else that you would like to say before I tell you goodbye. Well, it would be great to have you, the president of the current EU Council presidency. Manuel Macron and Ursula von der Leyen with us at at the summit. I know that you may be joining but only through video because you are on on on travel, but I truly hope that that we get more people like you and more of the decision makers. More efforts and work with us. I'm very glad that we met again here today, Mark, and I hope to see you in the near future. Thank you so much role and it's been a sheer pleasure and I, I too would like that I cannot wait until we can see each other again. I think it'll be a great time and I want to talk about it and promote it as much as possible because I think it's a fabulous thing that's that you're doing and that's going on. And it's much needed for the world to get those transformations to make it to the future that we all want to live in. Thank you very much and have a wonderful day and we'll talk to you very soon. Thank you Mark.