 Well, very excited for this panel. We have a lot of esteemed guests here. I think just to set the stage here, would be interesting to work through this panel as let's present the work that's being done and then present almost the shape of the problem or the shape of the public goods and comments problem. And then I think we have a great audience of people here who are very well versed in mechanism design and have worked through some of these things themselves. So I think it'd be good to essentially let's display the shape of the problem, bring some of the approaches that have been done so far. And then I would put out to the audience to kind of like talk to us after about where areas where you've seen solutions to this or things that should be tried that could potentially push this work forward. All right, so with that, could we get everyone here to just quickly introduce yourselves and then provide a quick description of the kind of like commons learning programs that you're working on, what are you trying to achieve? Just help us set the stage and get up to speed here. I'll toss it to Molly first. Sure, hi, Molly McKinley. The learning program that I can talk about today is the PL Launchpad program, which is a six week onboarding program for new hires to the PL network. We actually have run I think five cohorts of this at this point. We initiated and ran our first pilot in November of last year. And really what we're trying to achieve is ramping in more new talent, new ideas, new people into the PL network of companies. We're really not looking at this from a single organization perspective, but looking at it across all of the many teams that make up this kind of aligned and collaborative ecosystem. And how can we train onboard, connect and match talent to the best place for them within the network and doing that kind of on a repeated basis so that we can kind of build up culture, build up knowledge and also build up all of the teams across this network that are desperate for amazing new talent to help push their ideas forward. Everybody, I'm Kartik, I'm one of the co-founders of ETH Global and ETH Global started as an organization with the goal of getting just more developers into building Web3. So it started out with just if there was specific smart contracts and then just expanded to be beyond just smart contracts alone. So we have a lot of elements of other Web3 components and infrastructure that are out there. And kind of as we did these events which were primarily hackathons and workshops for developers, we kind of noticed that there's a large gap between the self-selection that happens for people who are already interested in kind of coming into this space and they're just finding the other people that are in the similar interest and kind of showing up in the same place to work with them. And that sort of got us to a point where we were seeing so many people on the sidelines that were just kind of consuming a lot of these tutorials online because they were recorded. And we kind of noticed a lot of the differences between people who were attending whether that's because they were readily in the location that we were doing events in or were able to catch up online. But the difference between people who were attending the events versus people who were watching what comes out of the event was about 30X. So every thousand people that showed up, 30,000 people were watching these exact developer tutorials. And we kind of noticed that we're still leaving a lot of room on the table from being able to attract and understand why we're not able to reach that audience. And that led us to kind of build something called Eat Global Guides which we're kind of currently testing and launching. And that's a way for people to learn all the same things just on their own pace without kind of committing to being at a place where I didn't get the time. Hey everyone, my name is Pooja and the project that I can talk about today is called Radius. It's a project by Tefra Labs which is a company that's building infrastructure for large scale human coordination. And Radius started as a project because we were recognizing kind of as Molly mentioned, you know, this just dramatic need for really skilled talent in a number of different web three ecosystems and wanting to provide some of these connecting opportunities between people who are looking for, you know, working web three and getting their career started to actually matching into ecosystems that need talent. And so Radius, what we really believed in project-based learning kind of similar to, you know, the hackathon approach. And so one of the things that we found to be really interesting is that when people are working on projects that are grants from various different ecosystems, they have kind of a, you know, enough runway to actually traverse the learning curve into the ecosystem that they're working on. They build relationships with core developers in those communities. And it becomes like a really powerful way for them to kind of like, you know, the first element that snowballs into future projects and maybe even jobs or companies that they wanna start in the ecosystem in the future. And we're also supplementing that with a content library, you know, from across many different ecosystems and a fellowship program as well to help people who are like really just the very beginning of their web three careers. Perfect, thank you. And I guess my next question and just start evolving this a little bit is, I think the easy version of this question is like, why do you think that education is kind of like a public good's comments? I think like, we can all agree that it's very important for so many reasons. I'll ask that question, but you know, in particular, you know, what is it that's so important for like your ecosystem or your particular project and like, how do you approach it as like, okay, well, in some ways it's a resource allocation and we can do a million things. Why is it so important to, you know, allocate the resources that you need and what does it really mean for your specific ecosystem in particular? I can describe about the kind of like, public good aspect of things. Like, why is this relevant to this audience or this format? I think you can, you know, look at countries and how countries invest in the learning of their population, things like public libraries, things like public access to knowledge and education as a thing that equips their environment, their community with resources that then can help them compete in a global marketplace, generate new inventions and innovations that improve life for everyone around them. You can kind of make the same analogy to a community or a network that also wants to level up the capability of all of the people in the network, bring in new talent effectively to help grow the total amount of things that you can achieve. And so that same kind of like, public good of investing in public education is relevant at the ecosystem or community or network perspective. And so that is a public good that's available to many that then levels everyone up, benefits the whole network and community. And the things that at least in Launchpad we think are super, super important. We kind of break it down into three main categories. There's the core technical learning. Do people have the technical knowledge and capabilities who are, say, coming from web two into web three where they know how to build a website on IPFS? They know how to run a Filecoin node. They understand how these technologies work under the hood and they're ramped up pretty quickly in coming from a different environment to here. Then there's kind of the community knowledge network connections for us that's forming mentorship relationships between core implementation developers and the people who are gonna be maybe committing PRs or trying to make improvements to those things. We use mentorship as a part of that. We also introduce people into the how, of how things get done in open source projects and communities. You attend triage sessions for how are we prioritizing all of the different feature requests or bugs within these open source projects. And so really connecting people into a network. And then finally the third pillar is culture. Making sure that as we grow these networks and communities we maintain the gravity within the community that holds people together. Where it's like, yes, we are aligned. We care about emission and values and things that help us collaborate and work really effectively together and we build all of those strong bonds and relationships as an onboarding cohort so that we have the affinity, the friendships, the connections that mean we are a unified community even across many different companies within a wider network that might be focusing on very different things which then really helps with long-term collaboration, like long-term feeling of yes, I'll go out of my way to help my neighbor. And so those are kind of the three main things that we focus on. I don't think I can do better than that. But it's a very kind of similar answer that I have to and the way I would phrase our decisions you kind of go about doing this was from a timing standpoint which is we started about five years ago. And that's when you couldn't really find anything online. Part of what made ETH Global become a thing was that we really thought this was going to be the best thing ever for as a developer and we just couldn't find anywhere from dedicated efforts to kind of bring more devs in, to have kind of other communities form. And just more generally, like we didn't have enough good actors in there because if you were to go back to 2017 and look at any news on what's going on in this space there was way more negative than positive stuff. So we said, hey, we think there's way more potential here and what matters is people doing good things and starting that type of community and ecosystem takes sometimes decades. And kind of the best thing to do that was, hey, let's make sure that we have an effort around bringing more and more people in and just getting that going and maybe the fruits will pay off like 10 years from now or five years from now. But what matters is somebody focusing on this. And the approach kind of we took from there was that when you are in a world where anywhere from the programming as you're building on is evolving on a weekly basis, anytime somebody does something, whether it's a blog post or a tutorial or a video, the thing gets stale quite fast. And you had all these scenarios where people would look at something whether it's a YouTube video or a blog post from somebody else and try to make that work and run, they couldn't get the basic things working. And our approach was to make sure that we're fixing the freshness issue first and then use that to actually compliment and make that a lot more widespread. So that's kind of how we thought about it. Where this kind of ends up doing is fitting in is that overall it ends up making it easy for people to actually try things before they in a way understand if they wanna buy it. The most common thing and the average profile of a global attendee is that they're about to quit their web two roles. They're all developers and go into web three and they're trying to figure out is this like actually real? Can I actually think about having a career in here? And if so, what are the nuances? If I'm especially on smart contract side, what changes here, whether it's a framework of how I should think about coding things or how different things work from a state standpoint, all these things are just not obvious until you're actually doing something. And because we're also dealing with money for a lot of these cases, you don't wanna find out that you missed something on production. There's a lot of irreversible consequences for these types of scenarios and these events become a way for you to experiment. And as we kind of do all of that through these kind of sandbox experiences which were hackathons, we said, hey, we think there's a lot more room to kind of make that even more sandbox and go into guides, which lets you understand how something would behave on production if you were to deploy and you use that to learn and get the confidence to actually make that jump. Yeah, I think, yeah, also just sort of tying back to the original question as well around like what makes this a public good? I think there is a really, there's clearly a gap in the market today, right? Where there are companies and organizations and ecosystems that really, really need skilled talent. And there are huge numbers of people. I mean, I think EVE Global has seen, I don't even know, it's probably like hundreds of thousands or many, many people go through these different programs because they're looking for these, like upscaling opportunities effectively and trying before they buy into a space because they want to enter and get access to these work opportunities down the road. But there's kind of a, companies don't necessarily, companies want to buy skilled talent. They don't necessarily always want to invest in like the onboarding and training that's necessary in order to take someone who has like all the raw ingredients but needs a little bit of that before they can be really effective in an organization. And so I think some of these programs like fill those gaps. And I think it's really interesting because they're clearly, really, really valuable. There's clearly a ton of need for these things, but they are difficult to think about, you know, how will these get funded? And the beneficiaries of these programs, which are talent and companies that get to benefit from skilled talent, aren't necessarily the ones that are supporting these types of activities longer term, right? In the case of ETH Global and Launchpad, these are like funded by ecosystems that are just really generous and know that this is a need and are willing to put funding behind it in order to support these programs. So I think it's like clearly a public good and also has kind of a common funding issue as well, which would be really interesting to dive into, but the value is like sort of undeniable. Yeah. I think you're doing a very good job moderating by that leading question there because that's something I'm super interested in exploring here is, you know, we've talked about there's a lot of value, you know, both tangible and intangible, whether it's through community and just like onboard, you could see the metrics of like, I am onboarding more teams who are building more on my ecosystem and are therefore creating value that is cashed in some way down the road, but it strikes me as there are, some of that is very intangible, some of that is not necessarily, you know, contained with an ecosystem, somebody could go to, you know, through my training system and go to another ecosystem, for example, and also it's a very long-term play. It's, it can be multiple years before people are getting up to speed and really contributing back into the ecosystem. So I guess where I'm going with this is to just point, how do you plan to fund, like how do you set up the right funding structures for these programs, and how do you make that sustainable on the long-term, whether that be, you know, exploring new ways to, like, capture some of the value at the end, you know, allocating parts of the community, resources pool towards these things? I'd like to hear about the different approaches for each of you, especially I think there's different stages with Pooja, you are starting up a very kind of, like, high-growth effort now and are at, like, different stage than perhaps protocol labs in Ethereum, so I'd like to tease that apart a little bit as well. Yeah, I mean, so far we haven't explored all of these things yet. Right now Launchpad is being funded mostly entirely by protocol labs. We sponsor all of the people who go through the program and when you think about, like, the success metrics or why sponsor all of this, it's the collective growth of the network in terms of humans and in terms of capability is kind of like what we're being measured on from, like, a value creation standpoint. So, you know, how effectively do we onboard new humans into the network? What is the sorts of impact they are able to do how quickly in the teams that they match with or the teams they onboard onto? And, you know, then collectively as a network, are we creating more impact and if so, great success. That is, that's worth funding the learning program that then creates that down the road. We're probably only in the early days of, like, actually being able to, like, measure and quantify that. You could definitely, we've thought about, you know, future experiments that we might do that we definitely have not done yet, which is something along the lines of, you know, for the talent that Launchpad brings into this wider network, you look at kind of the long-term careers and pathways people might take between different projects they work on and then some fraction of the total impact that they create as evaluated by the impact of their various teams as evaluated by, like, the performance reviews they might get within those different teams gets attributed back to Launchpad as an early training and onboarding program that, like, set them up and matched them to a team where they were successful and you could then imagine every team that they flow through getting that same, you know, recognition for investing in their growth, helping, you know, apply them to really useful problems, helping them find their next opportunity and that creates kind of maybe also the incentive for every group to, like, be cheerleading someone as they go long-term within a network. We haven't yet explored that right now. We're still at the early days of building a really amazing program that people love that managers also can, like, hardcore thumbs up and be, like, my people accelerated into the network more effectively thanks to this program. I got net new talent that's able to jump into the problems that I was facing that I wasn't able to find people to fit these problem areas and they are capable and they are, you know, a great contributor to my team and they're bringing all of the connections in the network to these problems as well. And so, really, we're looking right now at, like, you know, how, what is the efficacy of our learning? What's the efficacy of the overall network impact that the people go through our program? But we're, you know, on Monday is when our 100th person joins a Launchpad cohort, so we're still super early. From us, like, the way we think about this thing is that ETH Global fundamentally kind of behaves like a marketplace, which is we are facilitating a handful of actors in the system and kind of helping them achieve their goals. You have what we call contributors in our, in our kind of network and you can look at our chart, there's multiple types of contributors, you have a speaker, mentor, judge, hacker, just an attendee who's just kind of looking to see if this is something they want and they kind of go through this engine of different products, whether it's a hackathon or a summit or guides or just anything else that we're going to do in the future and that sort of creates more outcomes, so whether it's a project, some of these talks, workshops, and that sort of creates more contributors at the end and kind of the engine works by just kind of repeating that loop so you end up amplifying and all of that kind of happens directly toward a mouth. And kind of the way we think about all this thing is that we know that the engine is working for the one product that we have figured out, product market fit on, which is the hackathons and everything that we do ends up supplementing the engine from giving us the flexibility to try more experiments. So when we think about our guide side of things, the goal is to say, look, we already know this process and this loop works, can we get people to now be more involved as one of those contributors? So whether it was a speaker who recorded a 40 minute tutorial on YouTube, can we get them to actually write and help contribute to a guide that's now written which has slightly broader reach, is way more measurable. We can understand who actually finished it. If they're kind of doing that on our website, we get to understand, okay, after they finished this thing, we actually saw them apply to this hackathon which was offering anywhere from a prize to a talk about the project they just kind of did a guide for, and that helps kind of amplify that loop. And for us, the thinking is that we kind of care about the educational piece and the content itself being public goods. We don't have to think about making the money because sustainability works from the other product that we do a product market fit on. But there are ways to figure out a way to capture value in the end if we actually get to scale. And right now, the actual number we get to track is that there's about 200,000 to 300,000 people that are actively watching our developer tutorials and we have no way to reach them. And we think it's a confidence thing which doing these guides instead of kind of committing to like a week long or a week and long hackathon which is intimidating kind of helps offset. And if that loop works, you have a way more opportunities to think about anywhere from career change to job boards to giving out grants or rather just more specifically just redirecting them to other parties who can do this much better than us. We don't have to own everything of the stack and we wanna make sure that people are coming in from the right side because we care about curation. And especially when you look at people who are going from web to web three, they are mostly trying to understand what is noise and what signal and we wanna do with the best job in making sure they have the first best grade impression in web three. Yeah, I think like probably a common model for a lot of these different types of projects will be like leveraging the sustainability of another project or system that has achieved product market fit and has a sustainable business model and taking some of the proceeds from that too and putting that into other value generating activities that aren't necessarily like revenue equivalent generating activities is probably a fairly common approach and is practical and I think makes a lot of sense. I think for the way that some of what we've been thinking about also is just, I think web three is very unique because of this idea of community ownership of projects and that also representing financial value as well. And so I think one thing that's like very, something that could be really interesting is imagining ecosystems that are benefiting from these types of programs that maybe do have their own protocols and tokens and et cetera being able to contribute those back to in some sort of split stream and this is like becoming from companies or organizations not necessarily the people who are getting employed or working on these projects but being able to contribute that back to some sort of treasury that is managed by these projects and that in a way becomes kind of like an index, like these programs can become an index on the value that they're generating in different ecosystems because they're, you know, these really amazing people who are contributing a ton of value in those ecosystems will eventually, ideally it's kind of indirect but the protocol layer for all of those ecosystems will appreciate because of the effects of these programs and so it kind of, you can then start to see how these programs can become like indices of the ecosystems that they're indirectly creating a lot of value in much down the road. So I think that's like something, like the way that what we're doing with radius is kind of like trying to be the end point for a lot of these educational journeys as well and so we've been thinking about that as one of the ways in measuring the success of what we're doing is really just, you know, taking just contribute, people who are working on these projects are paid in the tokens for the ecosystems that they're contributing to and us being able to capture a small portion of that value or the protocol being able to capture a portion of that represents the value that, you know, again, indirectly these ecosystems have seen from the people who are doing this work. I think some of the other interesting models which are, some of this is like, has already been piloted in Web 2 and I don't honestly think they've really taken off but I think, again, Web 3 could be an interesting, there's like much more natural ways to implement some of these things with like smart contracts but this idea of like income or revenue share agreements and that, you know, we've seen, I think, analogs in Web 3 like split streams and just being able to like drip proceeds from some group that is able to receive funds to like the people who've kind of contributed value down the road and that just being kind of an automatic like programmable way to capture value back to people that contributed a lot of value and the value chain in the past. So I think some of those models could be really interesting to explore for these different programs too, but. Yeah, it's super interesting how there's a common theme of like there's an understanding that's like if you build an ecosystem, the ecosystem itself will definitely be great, more value is created by these education systems than is like put in so many ways. So it's always a balance of course between trying to measure everything and I won't say financialized but creates completely objective measures of this versus if the community believes strong enough that there is intrinsic value of this that there's clearly been and demonstrated continued effort, whether that's resources and time or monetary resources, keep on going into this. So it's a very interesting case of, do you need to tie in like a strict quantitative measurement of it? Or is it enough that this is something that's like very much agreeable and needs to continue? I feel like the issue is that right now the best we have is a retroactive way of assessing with something impactful and I think all of our approaches here are in a way trying to make that more proactive so that we can measure in a way like if this funnel or is converting and if so like how? So I feel like that's probably the framing that I think of which is we know that there are people that do these things and they're somehow coming to one of our websites to kind of be part of whatever we're doing. How do we know where they're actually coming from and can we make that number bigger? Yeah, I mean I'd highlight the, I think we're all in like experimental approaches right now like we're iterating every six weeks and doing like changes to this onboarding program. And so we do need enough metrics that we can understand what's working and what isn't. And like looking at that from like a network perspective of like well are people learning what we kind of hope they were gonna learn? Are they matching to grants or jobs or coming to future hackathons based on kind of the work that they do in this program? And we need kind of like a gradient there by which we can improve. But I think we maybe have a, we'll have a much better perspective even further in the future to look back on the value that was generated that we can't necessarily see all of it today. And I think it's like it's clearly a stage here but there's a lot of exciting stuff going on here and there's also a lot of challenges. So the remains I'd be interested to explore like what are the things that you find are particularly interesting or where you're seeing traction you're particularly excited about this like new concept that you're exploring? And then maybe what's one thing that if you were to ask somebody in the audience or somebody who's watching this where they could really help you solve a problem or a challenge you're facing? I mean for us the cohort nature is something that I think is working really well maybe working even better than originally anticipated like we have a cohort of folks are all onboarding at the same time and we get them together in person for a week around some wider event that the ecosystem or community is having which then allows you to have strong bonds within a cohort and also stronger bonds like with cohort alumni or other people in the network. So that's working really well for us. The thing that I would love help or advice on is as we think about trying to like widen the funnel of people who can participate in Launchpad and scale the program over time we'd initially had the hypothesis that to kind of convince people to take the leap from web two to web three you really needed to offer full-time employment that was something we've been seeing from a recruiting perspective at Protocol Labs and as we try and scale the program that leads to this challenge of what offer do you give people upfront that's not going to then constrain where they might match or constrain whether or not they want to match to a full-time option. Maybe they wanna go forth and do radius or maybe they wanna to jump to other areas and so we're now experimenting with a eight-week contracting offer which is like contract to hire or maybe you just do this as a learning program and then jump to doing grants or other things. So we're super still exploring there and I'd love to talk to people who have ideas about how we can maybe do that more effectively or experiment with even other solutions for scaling. Sure, he's the type of thing, but... Um... So, ETH Global Guides is on guides.eathglobal.com and we're kind of in the phase where we're just getting a lot of bugs out so a few people using it, we're getting ready for our next talk with Protocol Labs so we hope to kind of have a few hundred people try to break it. Our kind of thinking back then was, and I'm back, it was a few months ago was, the hope that if we kind of make things a lot more interactive, people get to actually try and then understand some of the fundamentals and see how things connect to each other and then kind of went to a few developers and especially kind of most of our attendees to get some feedback and also to a few protocols that are out there and I think that sort of just totally surprised me was the developers were kind of largely indifferent in terms of like, oh, this is great because most of them were on the intermediate to advanced stage so this kind of first only attracts a lot of the beginners which is great because that's what we're focusing on but every company and protocol that I talked to said, hey, we actually have this basically half-assed or just collection of links that we send to all of our new employees and this is how they learn how some of these things even on our protocol works or what kind of the general web three ensure that they need and we would love to convert some of our internal notes to this format so they can actually provably and kind of follow a whole step to kind of catch up and they're like, hey, can I convert my internal team notebook or our internal Wiki to this and that's sort of which is very counterintuitive because I'd never expected that to be the answer and that's in hindsight now very obvious because all the people that are coming in are coming in from web two and largely they're not somebody who's been in this space for a few years and making the shift they're kind of jumping right in and they need to catch up on a lot of things and there's so much nuance in all of this that it takes time so that's kind of one thing that I'm like, this is interesting and we wanna sort of make that a lot more open so the thinking here is that anytime we do any of the content on guides the content itself is gonna be open source anybody can come contribute to it they're called guides because we want them to be very simple and quick we don't wanna make it a course you're not learning how to do a full thing from beginning to functioning some NFT kind of marketplace like these are not academies or courses you do something super quick and then they are composable so you can use that as a prerequisite for another guide and kind of branch off in any direction you want and the fact that this is open source as content lets anybody kind of update, maintain, contribute and fork from it and I think the way people can help is basically come and contribute content like we are giving attribution to everybody and most of the comments we've gotten is I did this blog post two years ago I wanna update it can I just make it on this format so now I can also see the benefits of who's consuming and who's falling through these guides one of the things I'm most excited about for both of your guys' projects is like the portfolio nature of it where like you can build up kind of like a knowledge resource that's your past work that is either from a grants format or from like here are the nuggets of like learning tutorials and other things that I've done and so I'm very, very excited for that gonna try and figure out how we can get our launch pad folks to make use of both of those platforms and portfolio building things because in a long term learning journey that is very valuable for like both looking back and for the wider community as you have a long term career between many teams and I wanna quickly throw it over to Pooja where I think we're out of time but I would love to hear your answer on what is really exciting and like what is something that the audience can do to help you out or the fun in the comments community can more generally help to like contribute for you. Yeah, for sure. Yes, I think that just quickly to touch on the traction piece because it might be inspiring to some folks is really this model of the first project that someone works on that they're paid to do can be such a powerful catalyst for all the things that happen afterwards and we've seen that time and time again where people will get their first opportunity and they'll really do a great job because they treat it with so much care because they know that it could be this like foot in the door for everything that comes afterwards and then word of mouth spreads they did a great job and they are connected to so many people and it kind of like gets them their next gig and potentially their next job and that's like been such a powerful effect so it's really like how do we close the gap between what do they need in order to get that first opportunity is really the critical thing and then you can really trust that a lot of people will be able to take it from there but that's been something that we've seen has worked really well and has been really cool to see. In terms of like, yeah, where I think the portfolio and profiles and reputation I think we sort of label all of this as reputation how do you build up this holistic understanding of who someone is, what they are interested in, what they know, what they want to do and then be able to use that to kind of help surface relevant opportunities to them and I think doing that in a way I think there are a lot of people in web three right now who think about this problem and are approaching it from really different sometimes very opinionated angles and I think figuring out for us we would love to figure out how do we do this in a really collaborative way so we don't end up with siloed views of a person where really what you actually want in order to help set someone up for success is this like holistic view and so very excited for the collaboration opportunities to. Thank you. We need a notion of transfer credits. Yeah, between all of our programs and dual membership between all of them as well. Amazing, well thank you so much. I think we're gonna wrap up really quick. Eugene, we'll toss it over to you but thank you to all our panelists has been very interesting. Also, Pooja is hosting a workshop later this afternoon if you're interested and there's more details on that outside. I won't touch you too much but thank you again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.