 Coming up on DTNS Twitter has an interesting new way to get money why Amazon is fighting with Visa in public and Apple's car road map becomes clear This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday November 18th 2021 in Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt and from studio Redwood I'm Sarah Lane from Austin, Texas. I'm Justin Robert Young And I'm Roger Chang the show's producer. There's a longer version of this show Where we talk about things like why do people lie about how tall they are? It's called good day internet get that at patreon.com DTNS thanks to our top patrons today. They include a Scott Hepburn Bjorn Andre and Jeff Wilkes Let's start with a few tech things you should know On Nvidia's earnings call the company disclosed that the Federal Trade Commission expressed concerns about its planned acquisition of arm which was in discussions about remedies to address those concerns the UK and European Commission have both launched investigations into the deal and Q3 in video earned a one dollar and 17 cents per share on revenue of $7.1 billion that's up 50% on the year and beat beat analysts Expectation just take that analyst estimates beat them to a pulp and real which is spelled NREAL will begin selling its mixed reality glasses called light in the United States They launched in South Korea last year and now they're available in the US They project 3d images using micro OLED screens and then they have outward-facing cameras so you can see the real world So they do augmented reality not just virtual reality has a 53 degree field of view which may sound small But it's actually fairly big for mixed reality weighs 106 grams not too heavy starting November 30th 20 Verizon stores will start selling the devices for 599 bucks with online sales starting December 2nd So one of those weird situations where you can get them in store before you can get them online the head site the head set Rather requires a connected Android phone NREAL recommends either a 1 plus 8 or one of the more recent Samsung Galaxy phones for the best experience Although apparently you can use them with an iPhone According to and gadget in Android though you can use NREAL's and nebula software to access Android apps without taking the glasses off Spotify rolled out its real-time lyrics feature globally available to both free and premium users across iOS Android on the desktop consoles smart TVs across the board the company claims that lyrics are available for 8 million Titles for over 8 million titles in fact besides viewing lyrics users can also share lyrics from songs on social media Starbucks has partnered with Amazon to open a store called Starbucks pickup with Amazon Go In Midtown Manhattan on 59th Street between Park and Lex Barista made drinks still need to be ordered on the Starbucks app that part isn't part of the system But for other items customers can either scan their palm if they're registered with Amazon one or use a credit card or code from the Amazon app The store will have sandwiches and salads stuff you get from Starbucks But also things from Esabagel Magnolia Bakery Dominic Ansel There will also be bodega items like gum and protein bars And once you have your items you can sit down in a seating area and enjoy your coffee or Just walk out because it's not just a Starbucks. It's also an Amazon Go No cashier necessary second location is planned to open later in the New York Times building Magnolia Bakery is kind of fancy Or was anyway last time I was in New York One of the longest running drone delivery companies zipline is bringing its service to the US for the first time Customers and a 50 mile radius across around P. Ridge, Arkansas Shout out to P. Ridge. If you're there, let us know we'll be given a selection of thousands of health and wellness products So aspirin band-aids cotton balls that sort of stuff that you would maybe get from From from a Walmart sent from Walmart to their house If you're in P. Ridge and you want to try it You can download the zipline app and they are limiting the number of customers at the start So you might be on a wait list you might get in but we would love to know your experience if you're in the area Zipline still I mean it's slow progress, but still seems like the leading Drone delivery company in the world. They've been doing this for years and Erwanda and Ghana and all over the place So go P. Ridge. All right, let's talk a little more about Apple cars We got some we got something good this time though I think I hope so we have been talking about the rumored Apple car and what it would look like and what it would Entail and how much is it going to be Apple branded and all of those things well today Bloomberg's mark German sources told the Publication that Apple has completed much of the core work on a new processor for an autonomous electric car The report says it's in the most advanced component developed for Apple's project Titan so far Supposedly Apple began testing the chip and autonomous vehicles in California soon no official date But soon the sources also say that the vehicle wouldn't have a steering wheel It would be compatible with the CCS charging standard and is aimed at launching in 2025 Apple apparently hasn't decided its business model for the car just yet Yeah, a lot of people were thinking it would be lightning charger, but no, it'll be CCS. That's good to know I I I know there's been a lot of like what is Apple doing? They keep firing people and hiring people and changing their mind and Apple hasn't actually ever announced anything So this is just us kind of looking through a glass darkly at our R&D project And that's what R&D projects do you usually just don't see them covered in the press like this So to me I feel like this explains a lot they were working on the chip They were focused on the chip and all this other stuff that's been going on around it was people trying to adapt like well If the chip can do this maybe we do this maybe we do that And that's what all the changing was and now that the chip is ready I feel like it's gonna come into focus like all right This is what it's capable of and we've made a chip as we know Apple can that can do stuff that other car chips can't So let's get it out of the road start safety testing it putting it through its paces refine our business model I've 2025 is pretty ambitious You know for your timeline when you're just now getting the chip set But maybe all that moving around of parts in the over the past 10 years will pay off and they'll be able to Hit that date. I don't know I doubt it and and quite honestly I think that the idea of us following this R&D Process is kind of fruitless I would be a little bit more pessimistic than you are Tom in the idea that once they have the chip now everything else is Going to fall into place a car is not a laptop. It is not a phone It is not a a tablet of some kind it is a very complex a piece of machinery and something that needs to go through a lot More rigor and testing than a consumer electronics devices So yes, a chip would likely be an advantage for Apple should they move into this market? But I think that there are still a million miles between here and there if we are talking about a launch in 2025 Yeah, I The first thing I thought when I read the story was like, okay, cool It seems like there is an Apple car on the works in some form But then it's sort of like, okay, we perfected the chip. Okay Well, how is the chip going to be mass produced because there's a big chip shortage and Maybe Apple has figured out something in some secretive chip building place somewhere on Mars But probably not and you know, how how how does 2025 make a lot of sense unless honestly Who knows maybe maybe by 2023 we'll all we'll all laugh about the chip shortage, you know And everything will have bounced back, but I kind of doubt it Also one last thing about this I think where autonomous cars are now and how we think of them are in a lot different place than when we first started Hearing rumors about about the Apple car I mean a lot of these major companies have kind of moved away from the idea that autonomous Vehicles and self-driving stuff are going to be at least full autonomy that you would require without a steering wheel is something That is like right around the corner. So I don't know I I have been both of you pessimistic Unbelieving thinking we're over covering this this Apple story But I don't know why this is the one where I'm like sure you're absolutely right Justin it's going to take a lot more than a chip to build a car But Apple's had a lot of time to build those relationships. They're not gonna build this car whether it's Hyundai or somebody else That's who's gonna bring in the expertise. I still think you're right. That makes 2025 pretty ambitious But that that part I think they may have an have a line on figuring out and they're not gonna do it all themselves and Sarah I do think by 2023 It's a little ambitious that the chip shortage will be fully cleared up But maybe by 2025 maybe by 2025 it is and that's when they're talking about starting to make these things. So I don't know It seems like a lot of guesswork time seems like call me Polly Anna Here's who's not Polly Anna Twitter because Depends on who you follow. Well, yeah, all right, maybe they're Polly Anna at Polly Anna partnered with S&P Dow Jones indexes Twitter is to launch the S&P 500 Twitter sentiment index Which measures public sentiment of tweets about S&P 500 companies in real time tweets that use the company's Cash tag so in the hashtag with the cash the money sign in front of it Twitter's way of indexing companies ticker symbol like a hashtag will be analyzed filters will weed out spam and other attempts to skew results and then a model trained on a sentiment analysis will gauge the positivity or negativity of the tweet the companies with the 200 highest sentiment Scores will be tracked in a performance index and the sentiment select equal weight index will track the 50 highest sentiment scoring companies Essentially, it's a meme stock index Yeah, I I won't begin to try to guess if this is gonna be of any use to any investor out there Or not, maybe it will be but I think it's a fascinating move for Twitter to say You know what we can do with data that won't violate anybody's privacy It isn't involved in third-party tracking but can make us a lot of money because a big big Organization like S&P 500 will pay us for it this kind of thing little machine learning little AI analysis and create a big thing This may or may not be the thing But I would expect Twitter to do more of this enterprise level data service stuff and until one of them sticks Yeah, this uh It sort of seemed strange to me, but the more I think about it the more I think okay Well, let's say I was somebody who really cared whether I worked at the company or not who really cared about Company X and how the public sentiment is After, you know, there was an acquisition or something else happened Well, you can kind of measure that using social networking tools already But if Twitter can say and it's like so cumbersome Here's how we give you the real data and that is extremely time-sensitive. I Can see where certain larger companies would take advantage of this. I'm not sure how I mean and again We're talking S&P stuff But I'm not I'm not sure how any smaller business would take advantage and how consumers would care about this much Yeah, I don't know if consumers would care about it But that's not the point here what Twitter wants to do as as Tom pointed out is create an enterprise level service That would be very expensive the people that would be making money on it would pay for now Whether or not it is of worth again is the biggest the biggest point And this I think goes to the heart of what you said Tom whether or not this is a future line of business For Twitter is dependent on one core central idea Is Twitter representative of real life or is it much like Camelot and the the search for the Holy Grail a silly place That doesn't really It's just a loud gigantic nut house. Why would you care about who's arguing about? Whatever figment of their imagination at the commissary table well, but that's that's the pitch right sure Twitter's not real life But you know who is on Twitter a bunch of investors who influence a investing opinion Maybe you know who else? Journalists like I could see some journalism sentiment index Twitter already for groups and lists and you know follows and hashtags and all of the things This is data processing this is this is not like oh, I can see what's trending This is like the the big like we will take millions of tweets and be able to tease out a trend that you couldn't tell just by Looking and that's the secret sauce that we're selling here. Yeah, I imagine if you knew AMC before AMC started happen, right? Yeah, like that's the idea that you could catch the swell before anybody else and in the world of finance that does matter It's not gonna affect the Twitter join trending talk Hey folks, do you remember Wednesday? I remember it like it was yesterday literally because it was That's when we talked about Amazon removing Visa credit cards as an option for purchases in the UK as of January 19th next year And Sarah do you remember when you said that was kind of weird because Amazon partners with Visa on credit cards in the US I do. Yeah, I still think it's weird Well, apparently Amazon would like Sarah to hold their beer Reuters reports that an Amazon spokesperson Shortly after we did the show yesterday I think said the company is in talks with Mastercard and American Express as well as visa about Who it will continue to partner with on their credit cards they issue in the United States in the future Amazon's UK credit card is already Issued with Mastercard, so they don't have visa everywhere visa may not be everywhere Amazon wants to be The UK removal announcement follows recent changes in Singapore and Australia where Amazon hasn't removed visa as a payment option But we'll charge you an additional fee to pay with a visa credit card Those countries have caps on the amount that card issuers can charge merchants by the way the UK Freshly out of the European Union no longer does So last month visa raised the fees for credit card transactions between the UK and the EU from zero point three percent To one point five percent although Mastercard also raised its UK EU interchange fees recently Amazon's picking the fight with visa Some people think that Amazon just wants to push folks to its own payment system They used to have one now they have Amazon pay But it's really just backed with your account and your credit cards in there So it's not exactly the same thing. So maybe they're gonna launch something new and Reuters points out that this is Something that's happened before Walmart Canada stopped taking visa for example in about 20 stores in 2016 after which visa and Walmart Worked out a new agreement. I think I don't know that goes back to what rich was saying yet yesterday Is it this feels like you know when a TV station and a cable company getting fight and public go over the negotiations? And maybe that's all this is I I Really put ourselves in the situation of just humble villagers Who look upon Mount Olympus and while there is thunder and lightning wonder about the fights of the gods above because that's really what this is Amazon is a gigantic force obviously in e-commerce if not the biggest force in e-commerce visa is among a few privileged few that have allowed this element of digital Purchasing to exist at the level that it does and when they get into fights we are talking about Probably billions of dollars, you know and and and how long These guys are going to to play chicken with each other is is going to be interesting But yeah, this is this is big boy stuff. This is this is like a GDP of nations level of Fighting that happens between these kinds of Brontosaurus's And yet I feel like visa and Amazon and Amazon and whatever other Financial services company it wants to fight with are going to come to a decision and no one is gonna have a whole lot of input on it Otherwise, I have an Amazon visa account. I live in the US. It works if at some point Amazon's like can't do it anymore We figured out a great way for you to Switch over to MasterCard and had more or less the same rates in the same perks. Okay, what am I gonna do? Yeah, I just had a credit card switch from visa to MasterCard They they are no the other way around they went from MasterCard to visa and they just sent me new cards That had the visa logo on it. It was even I think it was a new number But otherwise I didn't have to do anything. So yeah I mean the fact that in the UK in January, you might not be able to use your visa card to pay for Amazon is Is a threat and that's that's the blind in the sand or like you need to come to an agreement with us by then Or you're gonna lose a bunch of money. I'm guessing you're right, Sarah They're gonna figure this out before then however Or they won't and and all right So are you going to deal with a bunch of angry customers? Are you going to deal with the loss? You know data better than anybody How many abandoned carts are going to happen before you realize that that visa is something that it's a game of He needs to be everywhere you want to be and meanwhile visa says we are the world's payment system We are not a vassal to any one of you vendors. You are a simple vendor Amazon You you play by our rules We will negotiate a rate that is fair for us because if we cave to you then when next do we cave to another? gigantic super monster in this World of credit card Transactions that isn't just e-commerce right e-commerce Walmart Canada They had to actually stop taking the cards in 16 places before visa Was it was willing to compromise and come to an agreement? So you're right Maybe maybe there'll be a month where you can't use a visa on the UK may be longer I don't know it very much reminds me of like a good episode of succession They're going full beast mode Hey, you have a thought about something on the show, but you don't know our email address Let me fix that feedback at daily tech news show calm The verges Maddie stone postulates that Apple's change of heart on customer repair is Because of a shareholder resolution filed in September Apple recently created an independent repair provider program That was the one that had a problem with Changing the camera and then Apple quickly fixed it so they could still change the camera It makes parts and manuals more accessible to shops that don't want to go through the hurdles and payments needed to become Apple certified Wednesday Apple announced its new self-service repair program. We told you that right here on the show Let's individuals who know what they're doing get parts and manuals to fix their stuff at home Or at least a few things M1 processors and a couple iPhones, but it'll expand coincidentally Wednesday not just the day they announced self-service repair But also the deadline for a mutual fund company called green century to push forward on its shareholder resolution around repair practices green century issued this resolution Back in September calling on Apple to reverse its anti repair practices on October 18th Apple issued a no-action request in response to that resolution Telling the SEC that the proposal infringed on Apple's normal business operations Which was a violation of shareholder proposal guidance from the SEC on November 3rd The SEC updated its guidance to say Okay, but shareholder proposals that address day-to-day business issues are okay if they raise something of significant social impact Now they didn't say whether green centuries resolution qualified or not and to yesterday Wednesday, November 17th Apple announced the self-service repair program and Instead of pushing forward to find out if it qualified for the exemption green century went Okay, that that's actually pretty close to what we were asking for and withdrew the right to repair resolution Apple's Nick lay he told the Verge that the new repair programs have been in development for more than a year But that timing sure is convenient and don't forget the US FTC also released a report in May Saying it found scant evidence to justify repair restrictions imposed by companies like Apple So there are other pressures too, but still kind of crazy coincidence on the timing. Don't you think? Uh Yeah, one might say there's no coincidence at all which It would be would be very interesting. They're literally co-incident but on purpose for yeah So we've got a lot of stories that involve Apple specifically around their App Store practices That seem to be moving in a certain direction around payments and stuff like that But Apple will not relent they will not relent until they are forced into doing something because that is the Apple way They have carved out their niche. They will follow their own guidance until the absolute last second I think when we say, okay, well, what is the absolute last second? What Tom just described when it came to do self-repair. That's how far Apple will go That's how far you need to push Apple for things to change Also The Apple spokesperson saying the repair programs. We've been working on this for a while. That might be true That's not totally the point of this You you could have said, you know, let's see how this is going But the timing of the rollout is is very specific. Oh, I don't doubt that they are working on new payment processor systems But up even now Now they're probably working on new payment for us and then when they do it, they'll be like, this has been a long time coming It's been in the we're gonna do this anyway. Yeah. Yeah in 2025 along the car. We're gonna see a lot of stuff from Apple Very convenient Here's a headline for you Axios reports that VP of gaming Phil Schiller is advocating video game preservation through emulation The problem is that older video games locked to out-of-date formats and consoles Maybe you don't want to play these old games, but having them available has other benefits Spencer said quote I think that we can learn from the history of how we got here through the creative adding I love it in music. I love it in movies and TV and there's positive reasons for gaming to want to follow In a DM Axios says a Spencer said quote my hope and I think I have to present it as that way as of now is As an industry we'd work on legal emulation that allowed modern hardware to run any within reason older Executables allowing somebody to play the game Now there's a huge culture of using emulators to preserve games, but actually run the games You gotta violate the old copyright laws unless the company's involved like nintendo, sony, etc Want to cooperate? Microsoft for example offers old games on xbox and emulation, but it's limited The ideal would be for companies to offer old game executables legally That could be used in multiple emulators and Spencer seems to agree saying quote in the end if we said hey Anybody should be able to buy any game or own any game and continue to play That seems like a great north star for us as an industry and quote Kyle or linodars text Technica has an excellent discussion of why there are licensing issues that make this harder than it sounds It takes more than just a company being willing There's a complex web of who loans the who and the licenses to which games in which region Sometimes the owner is at a business and the legal rights are in question meaning Nobody can approve Yeah, that that's a great read over at ours technica and I don't think it It uh disproves what what spencer is saying or tries to undermine him In fact, I think orlin goes out of the way to say hey, he's saying all the right things, but it's harder than it sounds Uh, it's it's important for spencer, uh, or shiller rather, uh to to to go out there and say Let's uh, you know, let's make this our effort. Let's let's spearhead it It's a big effort And we'll see if if he's actually able to to get the industry to follow up on it because It's not just willingness. It's one thing for shiller to get out there and say yes Let's get everybody on the same page. Come on nintendo. Come on sony these old games. Let's do it for preservation Let's do it for research. Let's do it for the culture Uh, and maybe he can get that done, but even if all of them want to do it there's well wait Sony has this game, but they only have the rights to run it on on the ps2 hardware itself Yeah, they can't even run it on the ps3 or the ps4. So how do we deal with that? Oh, well, let's go to the right holder Oh, well that rights holder no longer exists or it's a patent holding company that wants an outrageous amount of money for the rights to it There's there's just so many issues there that that make it complicated to work out. That doesn't mean it's impossible Uh, or not worth trying but it is it is more than just getting shiller and and a few people to to finally get the industry to change It's mine, right? Can I play one cynical point? Isn't it interesting that apple? You know a company that primarily makes iPhones and apple tv's where you could play simple games and And uh, you know interact with them that they're the ones who want to do it for the culture Come on guys. Let's let's get our history out there Sure It would involve a lot of people being able to maybe play games on emulators on apple tv's and iPhones But but it's for the culture but it's it's microsoft saying it right Uh, oh wait. Sorry. I thought it was uh my bed Yeah Yeah, it's take take back that take It's uh phil spencer. We we keep saying shiller. I kept saying shiller. It says shiller here It's phil spencer. You said spencer spencer is right. That's the confusion. I said both I regret the error Yeah, uh, but we're yeah, we're talking about microsoft here got you phil spencer. Yeah All right, let's check out the mail bag phil schiller is like, what did I ever do to you guys? Nick wrote in hello nick, uh, nick is a frequent emailer and we love your emails nick Nick says regarding the facebook meta development of force feedback gloves for vr Which we talked about on yesterday's show Nick says the first thing that came to mind is the safety of my fingers and hands as a sim racer with a Fanatek dd one at direct drive wheel base I'm very aware of the safety of force feedback motors and their interaction with human hands When you calibrate the force feedback of a sim racing wheel to be safe and within your capabilities It's normally safe, but if you have something go wrong with the software or logic controlling the hardware It's exactly the wrong way a wheel can spin out of control break bones tear muscles or ligaments That's why kill switches are highly recommended for sim racing equipment Before I put my hands on any force feedback glove I really want to know what safety features are included because if things go wrong They can go very wrong Yeah, I I like this note because nick's not saying he doesn't want the force feedback glove He's saying great sounds wonderful Uh, and I know it's real early, but can you make sure it's not going to break my fingers if I stick my hand It and I'm sure you can sure you can design it that way Just really would like to know that that that element of it before I before I get out there and try out one of these Well, thanks everybody who sends in feedback We love your feedback do keep it coming feedback at daily technewshow.com is where to send that feedback We also have a couple new brand new bosses that we'd like to thank today Neil Shaver and Todd Nolan just started backing us on patreon. Thank you, Neil. Thank you Todd Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, they the I uh in the new editor's desk today I talked about emails and how we select emails Read a little bit from sarah about that And and mentioned that the patrons are the backbone of what we're doing right now with all the the crazy Economy out there That that causes the ad industry to kind of flood one way or another It's it's really nice to know that that we've got you all in there. So thank you for that Absolutely. Also, thanks to Justin rubber young for being with us on the show today. Justin. What's been going on in the last week? Oh, you know in the political world It is always swirling here in the great state of texas beto arorca is announced that he is running for governor How is it going to be different from his nearly successful 2018 campaign? How is he different from his failed presidential campaign find out in the episode that we released this wednesday on px3 Excellent. Well, we are live on this show Monday through friday for 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc put it on your calendar join us if you can and find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live Tomorrow rich and i will be joined by rob dunwood and lynn perlta. Don't miss it. Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Well, I hope you have enjoyed this brover