 We're back where I live. I'm Jay Fidel. This is all about leadership. We have a special guest today, Sydney Brown. Sydney is into leadership. She's into creativity and she runs a shoe company, the likes of which you have never ever heard before, I'm sure. Welcome to the show, Sydney. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so delighted to know you would meet you and have you have you here with us today. So let's talk about this fabulous brand you're developing, Sydney Brown out of New York, LA and Porto. Porto Portugal. Yes. Talk about it, will you? Yeah. Well, yeah, I started this company about nine years ago and it had been a response to there being no vegan sustainable shoes on the market. And so, yeah, about nine years ago, I had a New Year's resolution to stop buying leather and I had always felt so conflicted about leather and I'd been a vegetarian for so many years and so I made this New Year's resolution and within about a week of that I had a big event in LA and I needed shoes and I realized that there were no sustainable luxury options on the market and there was this huge hole in the market and so I then took that upon myself to solve and so I found this amazing shoemaker in LA and so I apprenticed with him for about a year and I learned the craft from pattern making all the way through lasting which is putting it, shaping it to the form and so, yeah, so it began that way and I started making bespoke shoes for weddings and for events and then I moved forward and started my own brand and with the very first collection we were invited to show in Paris and so then it went from there so it's been quite a journey. I've seen photographs of your shoes and they're really beautiful. I didn't see anything from men. Are you doing men also? We're doing sneakers for men and we have a few styles that are unisex so. Yeah, I want that. Yes, yeah, you look great. Okay, so you have so many creative points, you know, I look through your what you call bitch book and it is so it knocked my socks off and even knocked my shoes off and indeed we're calling we're calling this show these boots are made for business or if the shoes fit wear them. Great, yes. You can use that. Anyway, what's different about this? Well, you're appealing to millennials and Generation Z. Exactly. You're appealing to a whole new world of consumers. Tell us about how you have found them and how you reach them. Yeah, well, I think the biggest thing when we were switching from or we were not using leather and so we had to find so many alternatives and so the plastic situation is so horrific and so we ended up just exploring the materials and so this has been the main kind of breath of my work and so we started to develop them and kind of explore organic fibers and then also recycled materials and right now the plastic pollution situation is so horrific and the marine plastic is just this unbelievable problem and especially here in Hawaii where we're feeling this so dramatically and so right now Americans are using about two million bottles like plastic bottles every five minutes and so it's just unbelievable this this plastic crisis that we have and plastic is a design failure there's no way of getting rid of it and this is what's so challenging and so we're working now with a lot of NGOs and different government organizations to collect the plastic and then clean it break it down so shred it and then melt it and then develop polyester fibers and then to weave those and create materials for those so we're so we're working on upcycling and so but this is just one of the the pieces the I think you know initially people had used leather for shoes and then the synthetics and the the plastics then began to develop and the next stage will will really be the the biomaterials and I'll speak about that more more in a second but I think everyone now is feeling this this crisis in terms of of the marine plastic and in terms of just the the the climate the climate crisis in general and so I'm really now working on you know solving this and really following the supply chain I think a lot of people don't realize that fashion is the the second largest polluter globally this outside of big oil and after big oil and so it's this incredible problem that we have and so yeah so there's so much work that can be done and that needs to be done so so one example I've I've just now created the first biodegradable stiletto and so generally shoes are made with molded plastic and so and then they're covered with or the heels excuse me are made with molded plastic and then they're covered with the upper material and so I've now created a stiletto that has the wood it's kind of wood pulp and then a resin and then a steel rod down the middle for stability and so this has been so exciting and Natalie Portman actually wore our very first prototype on Saturday Night Live which was so exciting and so I think the the millennials and the Gen Z's are you know the Greta Thirdbergs of our time are now you know moving forward and they realize that this is a crisis and you know that they've said now that by 2025 the coral will be dead you know the world the world's coral will be dead and so by 2030 or so the oceans will be dead and I think a lot of people don't understand that we're you know getting most of our oxygen from the ocean you know 20% or so is from the trees and you know the various rain for us but 60 to 80% is from the the phytoplankton and the small marine you know plants in the ocean and so if we're losing this then we're really entering the sixth extinction and we will become the dinosaurs soon and there's no way we're going to be able to get a billion people to mars by 2040 you know so I mean this is an absolute emergency and so I think millennials and Gen Z's are are so conscious of this and they know that the world soon will be so much different and so it's an emergency for everyone to step forward. I hope people realize it you know I can't help but think of Dustin Hoffman and the graduate and he's with his the father of his girlfriend I guess and a swimming pool in that movie and the father leans out to him he says young man it's all about plastics. Yes that's a very thing it's like at the time this is what this is supposed to be in the 60s I guess it's all about plastics meant that that was the modern high-tech approach to materials of you know all kinds of products and in our lifetimes or at least in my lifetime anyway you know all that has changed that then you see you see these incredible photographs of seabirds who have died from plastic and all kinds of animals in the sea and elsewhere who have died from plastic and then we thought well not a good idea to have plastic and it's out of control and then finally you because you represent more you know than just you know shoes you represent a whole idea which could carry over into so many other products to reuse the plastic. Can you talk a little about how you do that don't get too technical with me just talk about how you reuse the plastics and take you know a shoe or any object of plastic and make it into another shoe or some other object. Yeah well so for example the plastic that we're using yeah is ground down and then melted and then fibers are created and then woven into materials and so but the challenge is that this you know we're upcycling but we're just continuing this cycle and there's really no way of getting rid of it and so the future I think of footwear and of materials in general are the biomaterials and these are so interesting and so we've been working on development of for example we just developed a sole that's made out of rice husk and that's so exciting and so and then we're using pineapple fiber and fennel and you know apple and cacti and toxic algae blooms and and so many different materials and with the biomaterials it's so interesting because the the bio fabrication movement is moving so quickly and for example they're you know the this biologists are programming E. coli and then they're creating self-healing materials and then the the thing that I'm most excited about is the bio fabricated leather and so that's building collagen in a petri dish so actually growing the collagen and so you can grow it you know like you would in Oregon or you know in your in medicine and so they can actually grow it and they can embed properties like durability breathability color pattern you know all of these things and then the ideal scenario would be to grow it in the actual pattern piece so that then there's no waste in cutting so so this is extremely exciting and this will be the future for sure oh yeah definitely not only shoes for so many other things yeah but you know I wonder though let me ask you this question you know I go out and buy a pair of leather shoes or you know even plastic shoes or cloth shoes I'll see what am I wearing today I'm wearing this kind of plastic kind of looks like leather kind of strong last me a while okay not too expensive yeah how does that compare with the kind of shoes you're talking about are the kind of shoes you're talking about going to last longer are they going to have the same you know resilience to weather and wet and cold and all the other elements that shoes have to go through or they're going to fail sooner well I mean we've been so we've been working on this now for nine years and you know so far so good you know it's also depending on on the the style of shoe and everything so but yeah up until now we've had about the same you know abrasion we've been doing abrasion tests and things like that and it's been about the same so yeah so it's really exciting and yeah this is this is definitely the step forward so what kind of reception have you had in the marketplace I mean I know what your market is and I know what you know we believe I agree with you certainly that the millennials and the generations these are going to be interested hopefully to for their own survival in the next generation you know this kind of renewable product this kind of environment friendly product but have they responded to your concept here in a business sense have they have they floated your boat so to speak well yeah it's so interesting I'm nine years ago when I began people thought that this was so niche and there would be no market for this and now it's you know I think because of the global the the climate crisis the demand is just growing incredibly and so I think people are yearning for a connection back to nature and when people see you know the logo on my products they realize that this is a symbol of change and so people you know are so ready for this and so the reception has been incredible and it's you know we can't even keep things in stock it's moving so quickly now so yeah so it's really exciting well let's talk about your factories I'm fascinated with that you know it's not like people wake up one morning and say I think I'll build a factory you have to have a lot of ideas and creativity you have to have a market you have to have capital to build a factory so your first factory was in Los Angeles but the demand outgrew the production because you couldn't meet couldn't meet all the orders so what happened in in Los Angeles and where'd you go from there yeah well when I initially started the brand we were working in Portugal in the UK and because we hadn't really understood the materials and the constructions the construction has to be so much different because we're not using leather and so we had a lot of trial and error in the beginning and then because I had studied in LA and I knew the footwear community there I decided to bring it back to Los Angeles and to build my own factory and my own staff and then we had about three years of heavy R&D and really just you know re-engineered the shoe and so we completely followed the supply chain so if there are about 15 components generally in a shoe we would either find sustainable suppliers or if we didn't if we couldn't and they didn't exist then I just had to figure it out myself and and partner with you know the experts in the industry and so for example we didn't have a proper vegan glue that worked with our materials and so I found the the top adhesive scientist in you know from Italy, Portugal, the UK, America from from many places and worked collaboratively with them and after four years or so we were able to perfect that so but it was extremely challenging and the financially it was it was a terrible struggle and so I to be as frugal as possible I actually moved into the factory and I lived on the floor for the for those three years and I had no shower or toilet which was also extremely challenging so um but then yeah thank god the demand grew and then I was able to find an incredible factory in Portugal that was sustainably powered and it cut against technology and so we were able to take the whole package that we had developed and move it there and teach them and work with them and so um yeah so it's been quite a journey yeah wow so uh your shoes um don't have animal arts to them correct they don't uh and they and they're vegan is a does that mean that I can I can uh eat a shoe at some point are they animal in some way well I don't know how good they would taste but ideally they would be able to biodegrade and so this is what we're striving for so and the other the other thing I wanted to ask you about before the break anyway is you have this fabulous program that really struck me you know in the software industry it was a time when you bought software that was it um now you go buy software and you subscribe to it like adobe is a good example you subscribe and so it goes on and on and it becomes part of your intellectual life I suppose to be an adobe person well the same thing with these shoes which I hadn't heard before you take a shoe and you can return the shoe to cindy brown the cindy brown will remake the shoe into a new shoe tell us how that works exactly so yeah so at the end of the life cycle um so we're now welcoming the shoes back and we give an incentive to the customer to return the shoes back to us and then just like the ocean plastic we take it and we grind it down and melt it and then 30 of that can be used for a new sole that we can we can put into the new sole material and then the 70 we can recycle and so we're now to do more than 30 now it's a bit unstable and so we're trying to grow that but yeah we're welcoming all the shoes back so that there's no outside weight nothing lost yeah perfectly efficient exactly okay that's cindy brown she she runs a company called cindy brown llc she is all about leadership and we're gonna have a short break we'll be right back we'll talk about we'll talk about the market as it is going forward and the shops that she is going to build we'll be right back thank you aloha i'm kisha king host of crossroads in learning on think tech hawaii on crossroads in learning our guest and i discuss all aspects of education here in hawaii and throughout the country you can join us for stimulating conversations to enrich and live in and educate we are streamed live on think tech biweekly at 4 p.m on mondays thanks so much for watching our show we look forward to seeing you then aloha aloha my name is duration i'm the host of finding our future here on think tech hawaii i'm here every other tuesday from one to one thirty p.m here on this show i cover issues around sustainability um you know global issues that matter for young people for future generations and other social justice issues so please join us it's live streamed on think tech hawaii and also uploaded on youtube right we're back with cindy brown a mistress of shoes so to speak in all in leadership and we want to talk about exactly what she's going to do going forward for a minute and i saw it in your in your uh your book your uh pitch book uh that you were going to build shops here and there what's your plan yeah well over the next few years we're going to slowly be rolling out we'll have a flagship store in new york city um and then to roll out from there and um before shoes um i had been a music promoter and i lived in japan for many years and in fact your education was in music wasn't it um i i had a minor in music yes um and i i went to japan yeah i went to japan to do a master's in sound design and um and so i was working with i i'm from detroit originally and so the the techno and house music culture is very strong and so um so i began promoting shows in japan and i ended up representing labels and artists from all over the world um at the end of my tenure there um and so i have so many connections still with with the with the music community and so i wanted to provide a space for the shoes and also for events and just to create kind of a communal space where people could um yeah share ideas and and you know move their the vision forward so to speak so yeah so we're hoping to roll these out within the next couple years yeah so these these are more than just ordinary retail stores these are stores with experience right exactly consistent with your your whole mission of saving the planet if you think yeah but but uh i just wonder where where can i get them i mean for example you know the natural question would be in amazon can i go to amazon can i go now will i go later uh they're not on amazon but on our website and then we're in shops we're in i guess over a hundred shops now in 13 countries and so we're all over the world and japan has been our largest market since the beginning and so um so that's been so wonderful well let's talk about let's talk about design going forward and uh you call you you have a word called practic what what is that um well uh so we're yeah i mean we're we're just we're expanding the line and so and we're starting bags now and so within the next few work weeks we'll have bags launched and so that's really exciting and we have a designer from blends yaga who is is handling all of the bag design i'm i'm doing shoes but i need help and support with the bags and so yeah so we're thrilled with this and and just to slowly be expanding the brand so one of the bags made of and um perhaps if i can't eat the shoes i can eat the bags um what's in the bags so yeah and so the bags we're using a lot of the marine plastics and so um this is the the main ingredient uh or the main material um and then various linings and things like that so um so they're not quite editable but hopefully soon in the future well you know it's interesting we've lived an interesting time in human history when maybe we don't pay enough attention to the environment and don't pay enough attention to climate change and um you know there's there's going to be a price to pay for that yeah but hopefully businesses like yours can sort of smooth out the rough corners and make life easier and make us feel what did you call it ethical footwear yeah this whole picture is ethical yeah well and hopefully yeah and we'll be you know continuing to expand and um i think one of the biggest challenges is that uh when we um i mean it just in terms of sustainability in general um some brands say that they're you know 100 sustainable or something like that um but you know what we considered sustainable five years ago is no longer so and so it has to be a constant process of refinement and uh and this is what is so so challenging and what will keep pushing us forward so Sydney there's really something special about the plastic can you talk about it well i think one of the biggest challenges and what i face every day is how to get how to not use it and you know we're bombarded with all the products you know that use plastic and so um i just made a bit a little list here of the the products that i'm using um and so for example like shampoo conditioner deodorant you know we don't need to have these in plastic bottles and so this is just a small example of the the options that are available on the market um but we need to stop using plastic you know full stop and this is an absolute emergency now so um so here are some great alternatives let's talk about price point because i mean if i was watching this uh you know either as a man or a woman i would say to myself well this is very special um but is this going to give me a price point that i can afford or is it going to be you know uh who extravagant for me talk to me about price point now and in the future yeah um well right now um they range from about i guess about 250 to 400 dollars or so and i think the biggest uh challenge in terms of marketing is people assume that if we're not using leather that it should be less expensive and um and in fact the the materials are so complex that they're it's it's more expensive you know often than leather and so um this is just a a challenge with the education and something we're we're working on so yeah well you know you talked about shoes and handbags but you know the biological process involved but develop other other products other clothing products other accessories yeah and i i suppose uh you know that that would be a dream come true because excuse me we have been waiting for biological clothes for a long time and with your technique you could do that couldn't you we could and we'll see in terms of how we're going to expand but we have yeah we have a lot of exciting plans that yeah in the works so yeah so um you're you're going to get bigger but to get bigger you have to have capital you have to approach the capital markets um how how does a company like yours do that um and and how hard or soft is the capital market for somebody uh in the shoe business especially in a sort of a cutting-edge shoe business yeah um well i think um the the shoe business generally is so challenging and i i don't know what the exact statistic is but something like 95 percent of shoe businesses fail within the first five years or something like that so so we've made it past that um that hurdle um but uh yeah we um we've been actively fundraising since the beginning and um yeah people i think now are so much more responsive than they had been a few years ago and so yeah so things are going very well well when they see this show Sydney you know you'll see what happens good okay amazing yeah now let's talk about leadership we can't we can't finish without talking about leadership this is all about leadership and you are clearly the leader of this company yeah but how do you do that i i notice for example they're looking through your book that a good percentage if not most of your critical staff and you know the cadre around your company they're all women or most of them are women is there a reason is that just accidental why do you do that and how do you relate to them in order to be the leader of a company like this well um i it so happens that they they were the most amazing candidates and so that's why i hired them and it wasn't specifically because they were women how do you find them um through networking and yeah just person to person connections so um but yeah it's it's been really incredible and um i you know my my my primary strength is the material development and the product side and i don't have an MBA and um and i wish i i did but um so i'm now able to find women who who are supporting me and and and colleagues who are supporting me and you know and so it's just been it's been wonderful so how do you how do you unleash them you know you're the creative leader of the company but you want all the staff under you to be creative also um and in a way consistent with your creativity but you want to give them a certain amount of room how do you how do you how do you manage them to do that how do you incentivize them encourage them to be creative and to help you move the whole thing ahead which as you said has to be moved all the time always have to be moving forward how do you create a staff that will resonate with that well i think that the biggest point is that they are they believe so deeply in what we're doing and so i don't have to do much luckily in in terms of that and they also realize that this is an absolute crisis and and something needs to be done you know on a global scale in terms of the climate and so they're extremely you know self-motivated and working working towards this so um so i've been lucky and that i have this incredible group of colleagues who are so motivated and and so competent so um yeah so that's been wonderful so you're living in new york right now i am i'm in brooklyn so brooklyn i i want to know i love brooklyn i told you that before yes i'm from queens uh in any event uh you know what what does the new york milieu mean to your creativity and your staff i expect most of them are in new york um well how do you you know engage with the city how does the city engage with you why is why are you in new york as opposed to some other place well i had been in hawaii and the the time difference between hawaii and porto is about 11 hours so that that was so challenging um so new york or the east coast was the closest i could get to to portugal um but um yeah i mean just the energy of the city is incredible and the music and the dance and i mean just the the culture is is absolutely wonderful um and so that that's so energizing and so exciting to be you know around people who are are moving so quickly so but you travel a lot though don't you miss it i do i'm trying to minimize it as much as possible but i i do and my family is based here in hawaii and we've been here for about a hundred years now and so um so this has been a very important base for me you know honestly you don't look that old i think it's great what you're doing sydney i think it's a beautiful thing and i think you've achieved leadership not only among your own company and staff and you know designer professionals but also you know in the world and your company is a statement of leadership less we forget so i want you to know that i really appreciate what you're doing and i think a lot of people do and will and i think you uh you're a great spot to actually have an effect on the way people see the world around them so thank you for doing that great thank you thank you and thanks for showing up and being part of our think tech program we greatly appreciate it and i hope that you'll talk to me later when you get even more incredibly successful okay wonderful thank you so much we're having thank you sydney right