 There we go. How's it? How's it everybody? I'm sorry, Ed. We were just busy talking there You off on this we got like a countdown screen and I must say that was pretty weird with inspiring music. It was quite I feel Ready every but I hopefully everybody so it's any warrants here. Hello warren You know, he's he says he's he's work up to 21 degree Fahrenheit more than that sounds chilly We don't want any of that that kind of stuff But here we are. So we're talking today with with Ed Thompson who was very gracious Hello Ed to come and talk to me the other day about his his photo booking process And then there's been good good for chance. So how how are things on your side Ed? They're good. Yeah, I kind of filmed a little video this morning That's a fine a follow-up to how to sell zines part two, which I did in the summer And it was very interesting because I just put out these zines and obviously I'm used to selling my photo books But I'm not used to selling zines and it turns out it's a little bit different So I was just recording a little video about that because yeah, the kind of people who take hardback books believe it or not They might not take your zines to sell Which surprised me. Yeah, there seems to be certain areas of book shops I'll have a little zine corner and some of them won't touch zines because let's face it You know, I'm selling mine for eight quid and if they take their cut of it at 40% or whatever It's not it's you know, they might not do it So anyway, I've been trying to work out ways of doing it. So yeah, it's been one of the challenges Excellent. Well, I hope we're hopefully we'll go go pretty well and so and so just everybody who's joining us Um, this is obviously that this has been unexpectedly launched at you We have a like it's almost like a surprise live stream, but I was talking with Ed recent I said, you know, we we had a good chat and and I really enjoyed our Discussions back and forth both on on camera and off. I thought, you know, this is this someone I miss I miss this kind of like talking back and forth. Yeah, it is. Yeah, you're reasonably intelligent photographer. I think Look, there's books But then there's a pinball machine. So it kind of Serious but silly Mine slightly mine slightly By left leaving it out. Um, it's well read. It's well-loved. Oh, look, I've got I only know I have got But we were talking in others day about you know about books and and it is a big process I mean what that's kind of one of the reasons why I looked at your video to begin with there's something I've been thinking about for ages and you know, and I thought yeah I really want to get into this but it did seem like really overwhelming and you say your video helped but today I wanted to like pick your brain Yeah Yeah, you know so because that's that seems like a like a bit of a dip of the toe in the water kind of thing Essentially all the skills that I've used making my hardback books, which this is where there's not one to handle Here we go. There's one so all the skills I've used to make what's called an offset printed hardback book So that's you know printing on a big machine making bigger runs the exact same skills You'll use when you're making a zine and the fun thing with that is is that you haven't got that pressure The financial pressure of paying to print 500 copies offset between like versus, you know 50 zines for a hundred quid or cheaper It's really lovely way to sort of get into it and yeah and kind of build build up your skills, you know and Yeah, it's challenging because I said I did it all on my own. So like I designed it myself I laid it out. I got all the color proofing and can you see in the background? I put out the unseen and basically that's when you're printing offset That's what comes out of the machine these giant sheets And then you'll pay a little bit of money to have them sent to you before you actually go there to print the book To then check the colors. So it's you know, it's a bit scary Whereas with zines man, like I just pay to print one So I went to who I print with for a mix and and I was like I'll just pay for one And I come off the top of my head. It was a little bit I think it might have been 20 quid for one No, and the point is if you're gonna print a hundred of them, you want to make sure it's correct So yeah, and it's wonderful because yeah, you've got it man You've got the finished article Whereas when you print offset or you're seeing a little sheets of paper and even when you're there printing it in the big factory in the warehouse They give you the sheets of paper and say bye But you don't even know what it's gonna look like bound You just have to kind of hope that it looks cool Whereas printing a zine it arrives like the test print and you're good to go You're literally like this is what it's gonna look like One of the things, you know, we were sort of talking about I think also with the zine is you know A book is a major undertaking not just physically for you know Actually laying out the book and the whole thing but in regards to the you know the images You know what you're taking the sort of photographs that you've got and and you know one of the things I wanted to talk about is this idea of like having a smaller project a project that you can sort of really Sort of not I just was doing it in a day kind of thing although I did I did I did do that one in a day in a day Okay, so there we go. So you can do it in a day Um, you know and that's kind of you know a lot of people ask about you know how to get a project going Do you need some sort of grand vision this kind of thing? What what are the what was your process really for Creating an idea to just get your teeth into well the zines actually just came from me Publishing the bigger bodies of work that were shot over a few years to then looking back at some earlier work and thinking now You know what like truth be told that I shot both of these in a day So they were they were little mini projects that I did in a day, but the thing of a zine, right? I'm looking at you know like here's cafe Royal books, right? They I love that they call them cafe Royal books It's literally seven sheets of A4 paper with a staple and in that little zine only 14 photos including the cover and the back like back cover So if you've got 14 photographs You've got a zine So, you know, I'm sure if you really attacked a subject for the day I bet everyone here, right? I bet you could do a zine in a day and I'd better be good If you just picked like for me I picked events So I picked an extension rebellion protest and a build a bird funny thing and that was enough for then You know to get enough content to then produce a little zine. So yeah Oh, that's cool because you know as I think as most people sort of know, you know, I've been in the States recently and and And I think I've got an idea for you know, sort of general about my photography to kind of like an abstract thing But I thought it might be interesting and what I say it might be interesting Maybe it's not who knows people might say it would be rubbish, but I thought if I kind of bring in some of the photographs That I've I've been looking at You know over the time this is this is my little light. It's not a bridge. Yeah Um, you know, so these are kind of these are just let me just bring this up on the screen So I can actually do it properly while I'm doing this. So I'm just gonna leave that and you know This this kind of is it their ideas that You know, I kind of feel why is this? It's not I do actually know how to use computers He says is it because it's I think it's getting a bit scruffy because it's all it's sort of sharing. Oh, that's why never just there we go All right, so yeah, so these kind of you know, it's me. So really just kind of photographing things The tickle my fancy as I'm walking around And as a starting point, you know, if you were looking at this, what would be your process of going through Trying to tease out Something in there that might be might be useful If I was your editor right now, I would say I want to see it all Alex Show me everything because like I'm the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to start making associations now immediately off the bat I can see lots of light lots of cool things of light. Check it out. I just was totally drawn that amazing glowing Um rectangle on its side, whatever diamond shape like that looks so What is going on there? I think it's a reflection. It's a reflection, but it just looks so abstract Yeah Post in photoshop But then you've got the light on that clock bouncing around and then you've got you know some other light So I'd say there's definitely a connection with light. Obviously you're coming it from the point of architecture as well So yeah, my best advice would be you could start grouping Similar images for content as in what's in the photograph. So I mentioned there's interesting things to do with light You could start um grouping them over a composition Like a lot of it's architectural the sum of the compositions you've made mirror other compositions that they look similar in some way I mean one thing you can do with architecture. That's cool I think it was in the book fault lines by george jiu if I get that right if I if I murdered his name I'm sorry Sorry, what the book designer turned van der heiden did was across every page There was like a line of say a telegraph pole or something and the book's called fault line So the designer made it so every time you turn the page that telegraph pole line Continuity all three different photos. It wasn't like one street. It was all through so there's there's weird things You can do bearing in mind how a page is turned But to begin with you got to look at it all man. You got to look at everything. So let's go How many shots have we got here? Um, so it's here. We've got 71 there are five thousand and eight that are hidden Let's look at them all show me them all So we will settle in to 25 there. So so these are obviously You know, this is this is um from my point of view just kind of going to just sort of label them very quickly I'm getting yellow and blue like massive yellow and blue lots of blue skies lots of yellow signs there Yeah, the sky the sky was something else when I was down there Alex there's so many lines. You've got so many strong compositional lines going on Can you see that there's like this shot here? Zooming up. I mean just that is a nice pairing. I can't quite see on the screen Right one more with your mouse the one next to it. Yes Those two together look at the way the sky almost meets up. Yeah those two. Yeah, you see it Yeah, it's like an optical illusion if you put that on a double page spread It's sort of the the sky is your continuation You're somehow using that negative space together to almost bring those compositions together See that see it's stuff like I think you know Ed that's I think you know for people who are watching You know When you kind of look at images by yourself and I think Ed you might also kind of feel this as well is that you know There's so many associations that you have with that photograph That you kind of like like, you know, I know what I was doing. I know where I was I know what I was kind of thinking and you make assumptions because I suddenly I do But now Ed's coming along. He's looking at these work with a fresh eye Not knowing any of the background You know, which is often I think you don't find people do that and if they do that to you Ed it's because they they tell you the story behind the photograph of where they were And it's like that's pretty cool, man. And and I dig that it has resonance with you but If you have to tell me the whole story, it's kind of like, you know So it's things like it's like the image to the next of it the box office You know, that's my kind of really rubbishy homage to John Myovitz's Yes, I think but you know, you mentioned the lines and yes, okay, that's something I've been aware of Have you paired these together already, Alex? Have you paired these together? No What I've done here is I went through because these are on my phone And and why there are some personal images in as well So I've kind of gone through and just take but these are as they were photographed In continuity Right, okay Kind of the guy from the airport We're then you know, so like driving like the this this one with the streets on that's driving to the petrol station We're at the petrol station. Then we're you know driving on so they're kind of just bang bang bang as as photographed Yeah, can you go back up? There was one with two there was orange back to back It's like you zoned it on some orange. It was a Pepsi machine Then it was like a weird rusty orange thing on the floor There or no that thing look the palette those two right again If you shot this just going along it's weird how your mind is zoned in on that color And then either consciously or subconsciously you had the same color in the background Maybe it was obviously the same space look the tables. It's the same space. Yeah Yeah, but like just the way like you had it The image of is it a roll? What is it a roller coaster of flume of water? Oh, that's it? Yeah, it's a water slide. Yeah. So the fact that you had that on the left side and the Pepsi machine on the right Generally in the west we view photo books looking left to right So these are also considerations when you're making dip ticks like which is the photo on the left because chances are People are going to look at that first and I sometimes find if it's a very dense image It's going to slow down the gaze So sometimes maybe on the left you might have a Less busy image and a more busy image on the right again just weird conventions It's different for everyone, but that's just something I found the way I look at photo books I think this is what you touched on there It's very important and I have done this in the past and somebody Recommenders to me, which is how I found all the lines and things in my image images originally Is I said to print out all of your work and and put it down on the floor and then step back for it Because it's the easiest to see you know, like what we're doing here now And unless it extends to see all of it in one go Whereas so many I think especially these days people tend to put an image on the screen One image and they just look at it and go Okay, it's kind of cool, but not thinking about that wider context You know as you mentioned and certainly that flow thing I hadn't even thought about it that yeah the flume It's interesting because I call it a fluffy slide Yeah, is that like That way if that if that was on the on the page the left, you know the eye goes up onto it and then shoots off and then you're coming into the You know so it's it's interesting to see those kind of ideas Um, you know play There's the colors man. You had that lovely sky again, I found in books where I try and kind of keep the skies the same almost throughout even if they're shot in different days or different times a year Whatever just so it has a bit of a flow Sometimes so you don't have to do that. It depends what kind of photo project you've made um, I love Sorry the flag I mean again if it's accidental Alex It's genius man But the shot of the American flag bottom left and then the towel being held up almost like the American flag next to it Is that an accident? Even made the connection there Wow red white and blue man red white and blue. Look at it. It's right there Right there the skies are we would it was we were so lucky with the sky that the sky's the first couple of days Wow, that that was amazing. Um, yeah, you know, it's kind of like this is the sort of thing, you know, I saw go around And basically, you know, I just take photographs of things that Excuse me. I find interesting, you know like here These aeroplanes that don't quite fit into some of the other stuff of the buildings, but the ideas are kind of there But it was just like it's like here's a municipal airport with A bunch of radio control planes, you know, one of them good right that shot of the blue and blue and silver one from underneath Yeah, look abstract as your architectural shots There's this one over here. Yeah, the other ones you can see it's a plane. It's very clear most you can still see that's a plane But it's it's a it's a weird angle to have shot it and with some of your architectural photos Again, they've got that what's called like the look again factor where you look at them And it takes a minute to your brain to kind of work out what's going on So yeah, it depends how you want to do this like I think part of it You'd start making folders of like similar compositions or themes like I just put it bluff man Like if you've got photos that messes mess with people's heads because they look at it and they need to work it out Like some people would say that's not a good photograph for me because I've seen so many photos I love a look again photo. I love to look at a photo and be like what is going on? There's a great Praise It's yeah I just you know, I it's so nice to you know, I think talk through with somebody You know who's who's kind of it's going a little bit further down. So oh, that's kind of nice You know like this is kind of cool, you know, sort of funky things and to be able to get That insight you mentioned about the science nice. No, sorry to button man. I do that when I see a photo I love what's that say on it. It's a bit smaller my screen It says more market. Yeah, it's a nice glow Yeah So that is That I mean that's the same these these two images at the top there That's the same Place. So I'm literally sitting at the same table. But that's the magic of photography, man Like yeah, yeah, okay, but then look at that one one. Yeah, and I because that one I went, you know what? Uh, you know, a lot of these are just auto exposure and they're just yeah, they're very auto But that one I went, you know, I want that sign to stand out. So I kind of deliberately underexposed You know the rest of the image so the the thing came out there, but yeah, it's it's you know You know what in my head? Yeah, look look at some of these again I got to jump in the one on the right that's Glenn Argyle. Look at your line of angle. You've angled that sign It's not far off the angle. You made the more market sign And then the upper the red and the blue is an opposite and the green I almost feel like you wouldn't have it as a dip tick. What you'd have is you turn the page You turn the page and there's this weird psychological hangover. Do you know about the cool shove effect? Are we going a bit deep here? Uh, I we might be but do you know what it's early in the morning? We've got 10 minutes to go Check it out, man I'm pretty sure it was like a russian like either artist or scientist I I can't remember the backstory if you're someone for it, but I know the gist and the gist is They do an experiment where they project a blank person's face looking really blank and no emotion to an audience Next had flash up like a hamburger and everyone in the audience say oh look, he's hungry They had same photo of the exact same blank face person They'd flash up a coffin and said oh, you know, he's dead And it was like whatever image came after the image of the blank face people You know if it was in the next shot was someone holding a puppy that's always happy So what you can do in a photo book you can you can really Change someone's perception by the shot you show before and I feel like your more market sign If someone's to see that as a double page spread on the right hand side Turn it over and then see the Argyle sign like anyone who's really really into photo books will be like, oh, yeah, this guy gets it Because you're playing with you're playing with their like perception and that you're now mirroring You're almost playing a game with the viewer where you're like, yeah, I get it I get that you're looking at a book. I'm with you. It's like oh, it's amazing. It's amazing Thank you. So, you know, this is this is always nice to hear people say kind of cool things about about your own photography But you know going back to the project idea and and right back to the you know, we talked you or you mentioned about zines Yeah, and then it doesn't need to be a whole heap of images And then they can be something so that that that Glen Argyle image that we looked at right at the end there So that's that's on halloween Um, you know, so like I don't have enough images that could be halloween But the earlier images were all uh on an island called chintateague Which I'd have to struggle to say and and serif you're watching At least I can get it right Um, you know that that might be something, you know, it's a it's a weekend on on an island and it's just kind of the life What would you suggest I Because I feel that you can't just randomly put 12 images together that you know Would you would you need some sort of theme though certainly What I did with my bilderberg zine and it's like it's um I said I put out these funny 22 videos of how to make a zine previously before I even did the channel I just was like I want to share how people can do this Well, what I did was I printed loads of little photos and I just started making associations So all the portraits I put together all the landscapes I put together Any what's called human relationship pictures of people engaging I put together any close-up shots I put together and from that I started to develop a structure And that's how I put my bilderberg zine together and it's it's a classic way of editing But you know, there's so many ways of editing this and I think should we respond to some of the questions before it ends? I think yeah, I was gonna say I'll let you finish your train of thought that I was gonna Yeah Yeah, but yeah, so that that's what I did and the thing is I don't know if I've got it over here Like look even before I printed my zine when I before I even printed the test print flight 20 quid I just printed that on a home printer it's like literally it's the same size As the fight not the same size. Sorry. It's the same content as the final zine I just printed it really small and it still works It's just to have that physical process of looking through you can do it You know what you don't even have to do that If you just got a book and you print the little photos you can wedge them in and just flick through it that way It's just trying to train your mind and seeing one photo after another. That's so important sequencing It's not just the edit sequencing is vital Sequencing there. Yeah, I've done that I have say I did there's there's a This is extremely useful. But yeah, as you say, let's let's have a look at some of the the questions now And Robert Joseph way back At the beginning check he was asking about the best paper to use for his ah, okay So look check it out. Um, I came the hard way through this in that I think I printed I printed a zine like 10 10 12 years ago and I printed on coated paper And uh, I didn't I didn't sort of get along with it and then where is it? Here we go I printed an exhibition catalog. So this is me hunting around. I'll try and not get nudity in this one There we go So I printed this exhibition catalog a little while ago and what I did what I printed on digital And I printed it on uncoated paper and I tell you what man compared to offset printing I found printing on uncoated really good for whatever reason like Um, I found when I print on coated paper of digital the colors are so vibrant It's kind of it spoils it whereas that's printed on uncoated And I just found it it just sort of seemed to absorb into the paper really nicely Um, whereas I feel like when I did test prints before on coated like silk paper or glossy the digital It was just so pop it was just pop too much So for my money it's uncoated and let you do a little trick, right when you're making your zine Check it out. You might think like oh, here's page one on on page two I'll have like You know part of a double page spread Do not print your cover on different paper stock Because you're going to find if it's glossy when you open the zine and do this half the paper will be shiny the other half So Not or not. I worked it out. I'm a clever guy. I've got books in a pinball machine. Come on But anyway, so the point is for me man like personally my taste for printing digitally is uncoated I find it's really nice and the other thing to really consider with the paper is the weight I think off the top of my head. Oh, I can't remember Alex. I'll have to write a comment later or something but I think this might have been like one it was like maybe one 30 gsm paper the thickness of the paper and the thickness has a huge like a huge element It's like if it's heavy weight paper It just seems to absorb the ink better and sit in it better and just look better And I put a slightly heavier gsm cover on so it's all you know, it's cheapest chips man I didn't pay to have it like covered with any kind of them You know, you can do glosses and spot spotting and all kinds of funny stuff for that kind of jazz But yeah, that's my take So kind of you know, so so don't go overboard with the papers. I think you know something was your thing about I think there's going to be a personal preference. There isn't one sort of paper that's going to fit everything Yeah Yeah, I mean when I went sort of big on my book the unseen there's four different paper stocks in it I've got like I've got where is it? Let me get it quickly. So yeah, as well as like the normal kind of um uncoated paper I shouldn't prep this. Um, I've got some See-through sheets, which are like acetates which are like overlays This is a viewing depth, but here we go. Oh, I found it. It's worth the wait. Check it out So this is a photograph of a guy's veins showing up because I use this infrared film But the point is you can see the text through it and then also in the book then there's glossy paper which is sort of um In ice caves in Iceland and I used a glossiness to try and emulate the kind of shine of the ice So you can think about that Although I don't think many people mess around doing different paper stocks in zines, but I think that that sounds like the advanced The advanced sort of thing, but you know, he said he said that's always it was good. Um, somebody Michael was asking About text, you know, are the text are they not? Well, catholic rail books, right all their books look like this the title the info on the front and that's it And there's generally never any text in the zine. It's just photos Now my background is like I'm a documentary photographer But I like the clean look of not having any captions. So in this zine, right? There's no there's no like text in it apart from that signs with like Leonardo DiCaprio saying help And what I did because I knew I was making a series of zines is I put all the text on the back Oh, the idea is just that, you know, you have the covers Again, if you're going to do this, right, why not make a whole bunch of them so you could start of a series So once you've got your layout of your first one What I've done is I've kept the layout the same and now when I do my zines I just have to drag and drop I've got all the templates because I've used it before and I think, you know You can just think about how you want your design to look and yeah, it's nice excellent. Yeah Yeah, that's really handy because obviously, you know, it's it's nice to get an insight into things But both in terms of getting the, you know, the the the the project itself going, you know, finding out because I was saying, you know The last time I'd mentioned projects. I think I was speaking to Phil Penman On another chat and you know, he was saying, oh, I've started off with like 100,000 photographs and it's just like Yo, that's a lot, you know Yeah So, you know, so those kind of things, you know, and obviously this this is Ed's, you know approach and you know, it's you know Like like most things of photography, you know, it's not always just going to be set in stone and we must do things But at least it's good to see some ideas. There's a guy here in the chat msa coach Mike You know, he's saying that as a retired printing chemist He's obviously the different papers that are going to give you different reactions to the colors And and things of that nature. So, you know, sort of find something That that works for you, you know, which is always always nice. Um, you know, I've got now Ed's I'm going to put his little I'm going to put his his website up on the screen edward thompson.co.uk Ed's if you're not aware, he has a number of photo books out And some zines and things like that if you want to check out more of his work because we've just been looking at My work is, you know, please go over there. Check him out. Um, you know, if you're looking to get Some pretty cool places to get, um, you know presents for christmas nudge nudge wing quick Ed has some books to sell Which is nice and rick just very quickly We've got a question here from rick alexander saying any recommendations of places to use to create a zine No, rick assuming you mean like maybe like an online layout or printing Maybe it means printing, right? Yeah, well, let's see about printing. So ed in let's go with the uk And so I've tried a few places out. Um, there's a place called x y zed Who I printed exhibition catalogs with before but they were a little bit bigger on price But they're very good and they do lots of exhibition catalogs and stuff I ended up just going with mixam and I believe they're in the us as well And they're just they're very very reasonable But you have to really kind of lay it out really well yourself with their system And you've got to be careful because obviously like yeah You if stuff if it comes and they're wrong unless you can really prove it was some error on their part They can be quite tight. So that's part of it. So you do need to make sure but that's why you want to print a test print Just print a test print. It's really it's worth it. So rick's also asking about creating online Um, so I'm thinking like maybe possibly someone like blurb or the you know, just things like that um, is there anybody who's specifically set up where you can just create a Zine completely online Mixam do have like a template system where you can drag and drop But I I always do mine on in design and it's the same way I make my books for adobe in design I just lay out but off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure mixam do have a system where it's like blank pages And you can drag and drop So yeah for some people I think that might be an easier approach Especially if they're not used to in design or doing layouts on in photoshop and things of that nature Um, and I'm gonna guess we're under it's asked about having the print houses. Yeah, they do they do Yeah, and all paper stocks when I print offset, for example, they'll all have like different sort of profiles and Whatever they're they're kind of doing so you have to make sure like I print offset with copper So my big books but same for mixam as well like mixam do have A system I haven't printed as any of them for a couple months I've totally forgotten what it is. But if you go to their website, it will tell you how to you know Sort out the profiles Is I'll get um, I'll get for once once we we wrap up here I'll get some links from ed and I'll pop them in the um in the description box So you guys can go and check them out. Um, and moran has now opened up the torture monitor calibration Which I think Like they gave that I've got this little guy which I still use which I find is quite good It's a little color spider just the data color spider and that that kind of works Yeah, I think I would kind of sort of say with you without sounding like it's very slap-handed unless it's certainly when I think you're beginning Rather than you know worrying about your the color too much It's more about I've found in my experiences is black and white It you know Sometimes you can have what you think is a pretty cool black and white image on the screen and then you get it back from Loxley and um, and there's nothing like The profile they gave you so, you know, so that kind of I think, you know, maybe it's important to get right but obviously but I don't don't get mired down in it too much right now, especially I think just for it for zine I mean, I just saw rick you're saying about um using an ipad So again, if they have some system online and a back end on their website Then of course you can just do it that way and I think for mixam It was jpegs. I'm pretty sure you can literally just have them as jpegs and drop and edit that way So that's that's another way of doing it. So it should work I think most these places are pretty wide for that kind of stuff. I think they might do there's probably an app for that So Who knows something like that so there I have to say Oh, yes, he's sorry. I did a thumbs up and a thumb appeared. I've never seen that before that was strange Oh I don't know. I did a thumbs up and it appeared. I'm new I'm new to this I don't speak with you. Can I can I plug my show? Oh Yes, of course you can plug your show. Sorry I'm not like alex. I'm a complete amateur, but I'm learning fast and alex is very graciously Asked me to come in his show like last week. So again, thank you alex. I really do appreciate that It's very kind of you. It's what what is what is the name of your channel? The name of the show is pictures on my mind And uh, yeah And I think if you if you pop a link there Um in the chat very quickly while I was at work because they're not being there for some people So yeah pictures on my mind. Um, you know guys, thanks for joining me. This is somewhat impromptu Livestream, which is really nice. It is being recorded and obviously as the way of things with youtube You'll be able to watch it later on And so if you're watching it later on, thank you ever so much for being here It's been a pleasure to to meet you all Patrick would very very quickly if I shoot for a pictorial series it greatly impacts Excuse me, uh when I shoot do you shoot with a zine in mind? Well for me hand on heart. I told you it was all old work, you know Like it was all work that I just made and the reason I made it my background in In documentary is I would sell those stories to magazine. So I was shooting I wasn't shooting what's called singles. I was shooting with a series in mind And yet whatever I was younger and I couldn't get the the magazines to take the store story But newsflash, I've still got the photos and then you know put it when it's so what was it Alex? You said before you said it to me better better in a Better having the photos On online than in a box or better having Oh, it's better. At least just having them That's better bit into that. So yeah, yeah better than having them rather than just get rid of them So yeah, you hold on to stuff and that's kind of like there's a whole lot of discussion Maybe we can talk about that next week because I mean, but that's you know This this idea about people who are very quick to delete all their images and only focus on the keepers Yeah, you see that's what you're doing to me. Alex is too early for this It's like I just chuck a bomb in there and just kind of go. Do you know what guys? But anyway, um, thank you once again everyone. Um, it's been awesome ed Dude, thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you Um, and yeah, so let's see some of some of your zines and see you know reach out We're always always here. And if you haven't done so already, please It'll be awesome for you to sign up for the sunday the sunday the saturday selections Which is my newsletter which goes out of my ramblings where you see more of these Kind of photographs that don't always get onto the channel. Anyway, thanks ever so much and uh, we will see you again soon