 Okay, we are around six past the hour. So let's go and get started. So we have First, thank you everyone for attending And let's start with agenda bashing. Is there anything on the agenda that anyone would like to talk about that is not on the list? So events coming up. We have in February 25th or 29th. We have Mobile World Congress in Barcelona This tends towards demos and it's more expo focused Very heavy on energy use cases and so If you are heading over there, let me know as I will be there as well. We can meet up We have service mesh stay which is going to be in San Francisco. I am going to submit a talk to this The call for papers is going to close on March 1st Swap it around for future because call for papers more important April 3rd through 5th, we have Open Networking Summit ONS in North America in San Jose So again, very service Very energy centric again The call for papers has already closed and the schedule has been published as of this week So we have a few talks on Network Service Mesh that have been accepted in The talks I believe are mainly on The Wednesday and Thursday, I don't think we have any talks on Friday So we'll need to get a list of those and post them in. It looks like it has beat me to it and The LFN booth demo booth is also we're also working to showcase a An integration and integration in conjunction with Prem from Lumina There was also a panel discussion that was accepted in that I believe was put it together by Romkey, which I Don't think was Was NSM centric, but we'll very definitely include discussion about NSM based upon the people who are in there We have in April 9th through 12th. We have the MPLS and SDN and and a V event. So if you're in the area feel free to attend In April 17th through 19th, we have Container World 2019 with a talk accepted By Prem from Lumina He will be talking on Network Service Mesh We have KubeCon EU The call for papers is closed. We will not know about what's what's happening on that until around March 5th The recommendation is to book hotels now the dates are May 21st or May 23rd There will also be co-located events at KubeCon EU, FIDO mini summit Is Do we do we have any information yet on FIDO, FIDO mini event call for papers. Oh, not yet soon, but I got cool I'll keep asking So we also have in June We have cloud native con and open source summit in China Did anyone submit a call for paper to to or did anyone submit a call for for a talk to? the Chinese KubeCon I'm guessing not in this particular scenario and If anyone if anyone is attending let us know and we can get you ready if you want to talk about Network Service Mesh or rather discuss with people Finally, we have ONS Europe in September 23rd to 25th coming up the call for paper Window is currently pending. So once we get more information on that, we'll publish it Announcements we have circle CI IRC announcements that were disabled. So we found that the IRC and announcements were We're a bit flaky sometimes it would send a message sometimes they wouldn't Nikolai has disabled it Is are there any other announcements that I should actually there is an announcement I should give We also have a new documentation group where we are documenting and and solidifying the the architecture and wording and so on around it in In our Wednesday meeting so it's at the same time as this meeting just Tomorrow and that is being read by or that is being led by by Jeffrey from Charter so Definitely, it's it's being held in the same in the same Zoom channel as this particular meeting. So feel free to to join us on Wednesday to help us We're starting with the glossary at this at this particular point. So help us work out terminology and then help us help us flesh out the The details of what Network Service Mesh is Also, don't forget to start the project if we can manage to get 300 then we are able to To add ourselves to the cloud native compute foundations landscape being a part of their landscape would be a Good thing because we'll be able to point to it and get a and get other people to Work increase a number of people who look at our project It also makes it easier when we go to the CNCF and and say we'd like to We'd like to consider becoming a project and With that let us jump to the NSM release board 010 which is slated for release at KubeCon EU in May So Do you do you want to drive the the release board Nikolai yep Well, you have the board Train share on the border. Do you go? Yeah, if if you can just open it Okay, yeah, okay, of course I can So Today what we have from the table is I mean are a couple of PR's which we have in progress It's mainly around Making the the NSM deployments more robust and stable. So we have the auto heal functionality Which There's a huge PR by Andre Great work great job there And I guess that it just is kind of under final review We also are working hard on identifying the potential issues with the data plane instability that we have identified in several Kind of specific scenarios At and step on our kind of working On this I know that that we have the very first The buck output already sent to the VIP guys, which is which is a good start. I guess I hope that we will have some automation around this being able to generate And generate these debak outputs in case of instabilities And be able to submit them so that for faster I'd say Resolution Resolving of the of the data plane related problems So with this we also today like as of yesterday At least European time yesterday we had We had merged a couple of PR's which made master Failing CI There was some Short discussion going on I'll see if someone was following but essentially it's around the lines how we ensure that master is never failing with the CIA and The fact today is that You are not I mean after after merging a certain PR We essentially have to enforce the other pending PR to Merge master or to rebase on it. Yeah, actually much is a better practice to just inch kind of run the tests and Verify that that the the second PR to be merged is not failing after the first PR being merged So this is something that I'm working on in one of the In one of the PR's here, which should be in the backlog, I believe 750 no, it's not here But yeah, it's something that's that's on the table I think that that we are having a good pace for the release for now One thing that actually is worth maybe maybe discussing is that maybe sometime middle next month like in the middle of March we should Try to to to focus more on you know testing and stability instead of emerging huge huge features in master But I guess that this is also part of the of the discussion that we had around the spec for the release process But Yeah, that's that's more or less the state today I don't know if there are any questions any suggestions on how we how we drive this better It's actually my approach to because I am I'm driving currently this this project on the release and my My approach is I monitor closely the issues in the PR's and whatever looks kind of critical for the release in terms of you know But addressing stability and improving Like this outhealing functionality that we care for example So all all these things like consider part of the the initial Release that we're at the targeting I don't have a better approach for now, but that's I Think though that I've already seen like a PR on 755. So I think that may be in progress Yes Yes, of course so there is this yes There's no really matching cost also these these problems were talked also also the discussing a little bit. How do we Are we putting here only the PR's only the issues because in some case we have only only PR sometimes both So is it worth putting both here or? Yep, yep, and by the way, I think these are both assigned to a lot of feel free to speak up on if we have missed out mischaracterized where you are in the process of these things Okay regarding this I Tested the output request. I just updated it with I thought you're yeah, okay. No, no, no, this is good. This is good Yeah, it's It's fairly for the same problem that Yeah, no, it's it's basically failing because master is failing and I know Nikolai is typing as fast as he can to get that fixed Okay So with that, I don't Think that we have anything urgent here. Yeah, I mean I am trying to bring CI to some to some stable state and also I have some ideas on how to how to improve CI and to add more tests But that's probably something that we have to that would that would be fantastic I think at some point probably we may have to parallelize some things And or I know right now our tests are currently standing up all of the infrastructure as a fixture and then tearing it all down Yeah, and and there may be an interesting question as to Whether some tests can be run in parallel on the same infrastructure I don't know and then whether we need to simply more infrastructure and run tests in parallel that way Yeah, man, that's what's actually one thing that I was considering what what what because I saw that that in packet we have a Lot of like at least five pairs of master and workers which can be allocated and Maybe it's worth thinking They're hanging around there probably zombies Yeah, they should be reaped after the test has been run So if they're hanging about they're probably zombies, but I think the underlying point which is could we run two of them? Two clusters in packet. Yeah, we certainly could yeah Would it possibly make sense to explore keeping some number running in packet all the time and then Allocating them and then if it's already allocated and you come in you need one Well, you're allocating them and then creating a new set when you've allocated them So there's a set coming up and then you tear down after you're finished with the set that you have, right? To hopefully speed up some of the startup time. So there's a lot of cool things we could do to make this go faster if if anyone wants to make a contribution that checks to see if there are any instances that are older than some period of time that Match a certain match a certain name or regex against her name Feel free to commit that in because then that'll help us kill That'll help us kill projects are older instances that are old and save us or and save us and see and see if money Okay, so we shall we get back to the agenda? Sounds great Taylor. Do you want to actually Nick a liar Taylor either one? Do you want to share the agenda now or I am sharing if you still see my screen? I guess. Yes, it's great. Okay I'm available to if needed You want to go ahead then and follow through the specs page review? Yes What okay Yeah, so basically we've been trying to capture Specs of things that we think we you know things we know we need to work on and how we think that might look Primarily to expand some of the comments among the community and the way they're usually structured is that You know the spec issue will link to a Google Doc that can be collaboratively edited because it's easier to collaboratively edit them collaboratively edit them and I believe That we had we've actually started keeping a specs I think Radoslav Started a spec sub directory where we can capture that into the spec sub directory as part of the commit that implements the spec Do you want to talk a little bit about that Radoslav? Yeah, so basically my idea was to to somehow consolidate this and to make it Make it available for future reference because it's a bit troublesome to keep track of all the Google Docs that are there and Yeah, I'm I have created a template that can be used So it's easier to to fill such a spec file and Publish it along with your PR Yeah, yeah, this is a template It's a pretty simple one I I thought that it's not it doesn't have to be very descriptive So in the specification chapter you you basically copy all the content and refactor it if needed from the doc file and The the following two chapters are mostly optional but of course if available it would be great to be there and The latest one are referenced to to the PR send to the issues related to that specification Awesome, so I mean hopefully that gives us a good way to capture these some of these specs as we're going Should be helpful to people who come later because if someone asks the questions like Okay, well, what are we doing about security? Well, okay great There's the security spec and it's living with the code and so while it has it has a somewhat better Chance of actually being up to date Then something that is not living with the code Yeah, exactly. Yeah Cool, and so we've got a bunch of these going on we've got a spec up for remote mechanisms Daniel's been working on that Matthew's been working on a spec for For metrics for monitor across connects and monitor connections You know, I think Nikolai we can probably capture the spec you have for the release process at this point or at least the dates Should probably be captured We've got something on the sessions payload type which I put together to sort of relate to the envoy as a network service And then we've got some things looking at proxy network service managers Physical nicks and inter-domain NSM, and I think those are have some lively discussion going around them right now Okay, so are we saying that the same release process can go to approved or I think we've definitely bought it on the dates I know there's a lot of other stuff. So maybe it's But in the broad sense is still under review, but in the sense of we've worked out what the dates are I think is pretty we agreed to that last week The dates and then we'll pull a branch So I know we've got at least that far into it Yeah Okay Then I might want to Move some of the other things except the the release plan in in a PR for the for for the spec Yeah, I think that's probably sort of on The more we sort of capture what we've agreed to I think probably the better. Do other folks have thoughts or feelings on this? No, I think this is good There's one pending vote here about the code names that we want to use Yeah, we should probably figure out code names, I think you've got sort of categories of code names and that's cool But I would encourage folks to add some ideas here Not every community decides that it's code name happy they can be kind of fun When a community does like them, but it but let's let's get some more broader input How do folks feel in general about having code names for releases? I think we should I know I want to tell my boss I just employed the GI Joe release. So It can actually be super super fun like my very favorite release ever was from the Seth community then one of their releases crackin So they they released the crackin And and apparently it was so much fun. They wanted to name all their releases crackin so Why is this a freedom Mario the Super Mario? I Mean there are lots of these fun things like I presume that you guys have encountered things like latex Which uses transcendental versioning being that that basically every time they release a new version They add another digit to pie as their release number Okay, that's I know that so the release numbers get kind of long I'm not recommending that particular scheme And then the other apparently something else less well known than latex that I can't remember Decided the transcendental versioning was good. And so they actually are using digits of E Okay, do we want to do some some initial Voting here in the chat. All right, I mean we have three Well, we have we have themes here. Let's get some specific names for those themes And I think that's something we could probably ah, okay good work from right So I like the suggestion of themes that's super good But let's get some suggestions from folks about actual names from those things then we have something concrete We act on guess we use the alphabet principle like we get something starting with a We could I know like one of the things that came up in the open daylight community when that went the alphabet Principle was adjusted was somebody pointed out this works great for people working from the Latin alphabet But it's kind of arbitrary for much for much the rest of the world And I mean that that's sort of the thing that I think you can take or leave I know the open daylight guys because of this decided to name at them thing name the releases in the order of the elements because you know we all agree on the order of the elements and I'm not suggesting that here but You know, so I mean we could do the alphabetical thing or we could just pick names that we like Okay, I know I'm still debating about where uranium sits I'm not sure we're gonna be a lot of that open daylight is gonna be allowed to export the plutonium rules Okay, then let's get back to specifications I guess Yeah, so I think we've actually got pretty good conversations going with a bunch of these There's one that hasn't made it on the spec board yet. Let me add it real quick, which is around security and Which is going to be I think probably super important to get added And I know that that Ilya I think has started with some thoughts on that Because so far for security we sort of waved our hands and said GRPC gives us lots of good tools For security and that's true, but we should probably actually use some of them Not all just Yeah, just one area that people can look at is if we end up using things that are Standard for the control plane So we have we have a couple areas and security of control and and data plane and so on But if you look at just even gaining access to the NSM Component in itself There's there are a few tools that we could use within Kubernetes mixed in with Kubernetes secrets and And rotating keys and so on that might be really really nice to to add in so And then we can tie them into GRPC through the authentication Component so now we give us the ability to revoke To revoke keys and give us the ability to if someone were to come to grab one It would not be able to use it and we can even depending on the type of keys that we use if we if we give them names Then we could also verify that the that the origin it comes from the Comes from the name That is that is on the key if it's going through a socket to the MSM D And of course in to inter domain is this whole thing as well But there's a lot of things that we can do even just to establish often to authenticate and authorize the user at the beginning Like there's a lot of stuff there that that needs to be looked at So if anyone has an interest in in this kind of stuff like definitely stuff up. There's a huge amount of stuff here Yeah, that's an interesting area definitely you'll have a lot of fun here The security is generally fun Cool, so I know that Ilya has started scribbling some things here getting more people collaborating on it will be super super helpful Well, and I've actually added it to the specs board as well. Yeah Yeah, if you want some inspiration Like always look at Istio. So Istio with their Citadel has a has some pretty interesting concepts Wow Should we get back here? Okay Okay Jeffrey I Okay, let's see. Yeah, yeah, we had our first meeting last week You know, there was a lot of people on that call that are on this call So I'll let them speak if they thought it was worthwhile From my own perspective of them. I thought that it accomplished what I was ultimately hoping and that was Pointing out that maybe some of these terms aren't as clearly defined as everybody thinks they are or they might be clearly defined But that knowledge is trapped in one individual's head This is different thing Go up Nikolai and hit the end the documents folder go That would be Up at the top under bridge details. Oh, yeah so Stuff will have to survive the Google Docs life cycle before it moves down to the repo. So yeah, go ahead and click this So I mean even with Frederick and Nikolai on the call I think they would agree that um, you know, there's application people who have application type definitions floating in their head there's networking people who have network definitions floating in their head and I think there was a decent amount of collaboration on trying to figure out what the NSM definition is for a lot of these things We've tried to keep this as you can see to like one to two sentences per like this This isn't meant to be like the deep dive document because you know, you could probably write a small document just on network service in point but Giving a clear definition of what this is so that way when people come in and look at the documentation or this and that We can link this glossary to everything and people in a single sentence or two can know exactly what a network service client is versus What a network service in point is you can see in the comments. There was debate During the call we went back and forth. I think we only got to about one-third of it So we're gonna continue to tackle this tomorrow You know Apologize you will I was I was traveling but I will be there tomorrow Cool. Yeah, I think if you just Give it a glance over and kind of when you come in in the back of your mind kind of be ready to talk about like What the data plane is from the NSM perspective what the control plane is? You know, there's Still some fuzziness around like just the nebulous concept of what a network service is right and I mean this is once again We're like I've got what I think it is from a network, you know standpoint and then the application people have like what they kind of think it is So I think you know once we get this glossary done then we can start picking out individual buckets out of this and start diving in even deeper starting to You know go into how the code interacts, you know with what the concept is I've been Constantly going back to the specs pages and trying to make sure that this document aligns with what we are calling out in the specs There are a few things where maybe some of the specs reuse terms and you know, that's tried to be called out here So yeah, I mean, this is not the sexy work This isn't like new feature releases, but as far as getting like wide adoption getting into CNCF things like that I think this is ultimately where we'll make our money So also there's say Just for some inspiration. There is a glossary of the edge that is owned by the CNCF That was donated by There was an edge of working group so it might be worth looking at how they structured theirs in order to In order to Like what level of detail that we were probably going to a bit more detailed than they would because we're describing an actual product but But it would be good to Give them a quick look over and we can also make them aware of us as well in time Because we would I would love to be able to get things like what is a network service like actually into her Into their definition and Looks like that Nikolai trying to try to connect in Yeah, is this the open glossary of edge computing? That's that's the one so I don't want to hijack this particular Topic but just it's something something you can look at for some inspiration. Wow, okay. Thanks. That's that's good. That's really good Yeah, if you would you link that Nikolai to the meeting minutes just at the top because I'm all about not recreating work Yes Yeah, okay Yeah, just to be clear my my one of my goals is going to be to Copy and paste some of our definitions to them so that they can have it in theirs once we once we're done And see if they'll accept it or not so yeah, I'm short-term goal is to finish the glossary and then I'm I'm gonna kind of I'll probably do like another poll or something there's People in my camp where I want to then start, you know, really diving deep into individual terms in here and building out its documentation You know alongside the code. I know other people are kind of anxious to Look at use cases and as opposed to you know, just Basically building out like the framework and maybe we have two parallel efforts. I don't know but um, we'll cover that I think though Mine last will not last Wednesday clearly, you know displayed that we don't have a common frame of reference for a lot of this stuff And so I think definitely finishing the glossary has to be the first priority Yeah Okay, anything else any any comments from someone and of course, please join the call It's fun. Okay. So it's also here. I should be able to join Tomorrow last week. I had all day Yeah, even I was traveling so I couldn't join so in fact what I have done was So in fact, I was giving a session internally just to get everyone on the same page. I put across few slides It was a bit cumbersome to Simplify certain concepts that I can share some of those from my experience I'll join that Oh Yeah, and as a random sidebar I'm Prim 60 calendar invite for us. So that's on the main calendar and we did update the site So on the dot IO side under the community tab the the meeting is listed and it'll show up on the calendar You got two hours there. Oh Because I'm watching Nikolai It took me maybe 10 minutes tops awesome Super simple I think the hardest part is actually to accept full request a Publish I should watch more closely. Okay. Everything is here checked Feel free to argue with us on Wednesday's on what you think the golden definition of a term is I definitely learned a lot So said I'm it's not sexy, but it's a worthwhile endeavor and you definitely come away with a lot more knowledge than you had before the calls So so the next bullet I threw up there and I just wanted to like maybe throw this out at the group I know we're very heavy Kubernetes focused right now But I'm the more Marth think about it and the more and more I wonder how we push adoption and telcos early I mean especially if you scroll up and you see all of the different talks other than like, you know service mesh days Etc. Etc like 80% of the conferences all say that there's a NFV subcontext or a telco subcontext I Was thinking more and more that probably just because the state of CNF's quote-unquote is probably not going to be a real Commercial reality until sometime next year if we're being completely honest So showing a service a network service that allows me to host all of the web apps and you know Just basic utility services that I'm running in my data centers and then service chaining them via NSM to a VNS via You know a virtual CSR or virtual firewall or whatever in like a VMware or an open stack environment I think would catch people's attention right so I Mean trying to boil the ocean right now and solve the CNF thing is probably you know a long-term goal But showing immediately how all these companies can use their brownfield, you know VIMS With all their modern Kubernetes infrastructure that their applications developers are using would probably Ingratiate us with a lot of director and VP types Yeah, I think this is an important topic. I believe it's Frederick and Myself and facility we were discussing about it and Some of this can be probably courier. There's a project called open-stack courier which tries to bridge Kubernetes and open-stack world Probably we can get some insights from there. That is one second thing is also. I'm looking at to integrate with open day late therein The simpler one was essentially to use the GRPC Endpoint and in work from open day late, but for sure there are different models I Think we can discuss. This is a very very important area We would probably need to I guess it's probably the simplest first thing is what I think Which is just provide a You know basic You know external network service manager or something that talks to the GRPC API That will expose neutron networks as a network service. So we That's probably the very very very simplest thing That could be done here and I suspect just that would be Yeah, I think if you had something as simple as just putting like you know in a patch here and in Jenick's web server in a Kubernetes cluster and then having a virtual firewall sitting in an open stack or VMware cluster somewhere and just writing a simple service across that. I mean very similar to like the the bridge domain Example that Frederick gave last year. I think that that would make the light bulb like illuminate for a lot of people Is that one of the demos that actually sold you on network service mesh? It definitely Was a key part of it, right? I mean so I do a lot of stuff with bridge domains in open stack specifically because On the commercial side every customer needs a completely isolated instantiation for their network and you just spinning up a bridge domain with a couple lines of go definitely resonated with me, but Ultimately, you know, you're not selling to me You're selling to the people that I work for and they just want to see that they can take I mean we've got tens of thousands of nodes, you know managed by both the mware and open stack and Showing these, you know execs that you can take all that infrastructure and continue to innovate alongside of that on the application side I think is a huge value add because I mean the truth of the matter is is no matter, you know How many like packets per second C sit shows us? There's no vendors right now that are selling me a virtual firewall That's worthwhile and I'm sorry if there's any Palo Alto or Juniper people floating around in there But I've played with SRX and the Palo Alto one and you guys are off to a great start But it's definitely not something I'm sticking in my production network just yet Because we're gonna have to have some way to bridge from what's existing right now to what is coming, right? That absolutely has to happen and even when I talked to the most ardent supporters in actual IT organizations Of Kubernetes, you know the the kinds of people who tell me they don't expect to do anything new That's not Kubernetes a year from now those exact same people will tell me that they have VMs running an open stack or VMware That will continue to run like that for decades, right? and so That's I think it'll be very important what I the other thing I'm hearing is it sounds like Prem and Fasila and some other folks Have working on this problem Does it make sense to sort of do to get a subgroup of folks who are working on this problem sort of more out into the light So it could attract other people to collaborate. I personally think it can be a great idea. Yeah Okay, so You know basically Jeffrey Prem Fasila however you guys want to get yourself out there I really would like to make sure that we highlight that there's a group of folks working on this and help people who are Interested in this particular problem with NSM can get involved You figure out what you want to do there. Let us know we'll go stick it up on you'll stick up the pointers in various places So that people can find you Yeah, I know that makes sense I mean we have the advantage of already having Nikolai with us right so he's got an in on the VMware side and then I mean just being someone who lives eats and breeze open stack I can tell you that they're perpetually trying to find relevance in the age of Kubernetes And you know with the airship in the Ukraine. Oh people trying to figure out how they're going to Stitch these little I don't even know what to call their blueprints, but I think Giving them a tool like this is something that they would latch on to and we could probably co-op some Development fingers to smash on keyboards. Okay, should we write something here? So I just came to the realization that the documents group is the first thing that we have Okay, yeah, so Time okay, so we have 10 minutes more I suggest that we move on to the last Bullet here becoming a CNCF project I mostly just wanted to stick this on the agenda because we this is something we would like to do before Before cube con right and I think it's code totally to get there before cube con Okay, and so, you know you sort of followed through and I gave links to a bunch the plate that various places We're gonna have to do a project proposal Probably we want to come through as a sandbox project But for that we need the sponsorship of two talk committee members technical oversight committee Now they just seeded a brand new talk So there are a bunch of new folks there What's probably going to be helpful is if we go look at the list of folks in the talk if there are people involved here who actually know some of those talk folks and think that some of them might be interested in helping to sponsor Did I get the link wrong and pulling to the talk? I may have gotten the link wrong only to talk Fix that real quick one second We'll be the committing It's probably just one scroll scroll down it might have it on the head on the actual top. Yeah members. Yes Yeah So basically they just put a new talk in these are often folks so if folks know Any of these folks in the talk we probably want to start having some discussions with them to see you know Basically to help them understand what NSM is and see who might be interested in being a NSM sponsor So I'll sort of I just wanted to sort of get that out there There's still work to be done putting together the proposal et cetera et cetera But I wanted to sort of start the wheels turning in people's heads Particularly since you know, we've got a pretty broad social network here within the group And so if you know folks you could reach out to that would be excellent Hey, Nikolai, do you know drill beta by any chance? I mean you both have the same company, right? Yeah, not personally, but I think I can try to reach out Yeah, I actually might have a mind like the mission. I should double check More realistically So I mean and I I know Matt I can reach out to Matt And I think I I also know Alexis Richardson And a whole bunch of people in his circle social circle, but I think that the more broadly we expose it the better it's going to be Okay, any other thoughts around this Do you want to go quickly through what the sandbox sink can't hurt Yeah, but Do you have a quick overview of what would be the benefit for us? Well, so it's sort of like formerly part of the CNC app, which I think is probably a Good place for us to be generally and it also You know, it also makes available sort of CNCF resources in general You know, so I think overall it's a good thing for us to associate with CNCFs. That's we're really quite cloud native and you know, so basically You know, if you look at the entry requirements You know effectively we have to have two stock sponsors. We've got to present to the talk We've got to adhere to the CNCF IP policy, which would include transferring any trademarks on our collateral I don't think we have any trademarks that are collateral. So we're okay, but this isn't generally good, right? It makes people more comfortable consuming, you know and then Effectively we would have to prominently indicate that we are in fact a CNCF You know project so I think overall it would be good, you know, it also opens up the opportunity to do things sort of more formally with the CNCF You know, I know for example various projects have done sort of Collocated events by virtue of being a CNCF project and a bunch of other good things We'd also be a very good company. So other CNCF projects include well the graduated ones are Kubernetes Prometheus, Envoy, and Incubating Includes, things like EtsyD And so we would be in Extremely good company with that area and it's actually and it's very well aligned Yeah, so I mean it's a good place. It's basically where all the cool kids are hanging out Yeah, and they'll also give us or provide as a service marketing and other soft services as well. So I mean overall the the CNCF guys are actually pretty awesome about the support they provide to work their projects I've been on other calls for example I was on a call at one point with the I think this was the Envoy community and Chris Anacheck was on the call And the Envoy community was mulling about needing to do some things with various Virtual infrastructure at a public cloud and I think Chris Anacheck's comment was as long as you give me the necessary information to pay the bill It's all good They're just a really nice to be and they also currently pay our our packet bill Which is very kind of them actually appreciated that that makes a ton of stuff possible Since this call is recorded thank you CNCF Yeah, they couldn't possibly have been kinder and more supportive to us even so far but being a formal CNCF project should also open up additional doors Okay I guess this is the end of we can wrap up Well One last thing so I will be at Mobile World Congress next week So it is I would I need a volunteer for someone to run the meeting next week because the chances of me having a good internet connection Is very long Wow, I'll be traveling too. So Not really sure what I Think in general if we've got some folks who are getting and who are involved in the community who would like to volunteer I think spreading around the host the meeting responsibility is overall healthy. So, you know, you don't have to be Frederick or myself or Nikolai in order to be the guy who runs the meeting You know, so if there are folks who would like to volunteer, please do Makes it easier for me to jump in and talk as well This is Taylor, I'll be around next week and try to help with 10 a.m. I can do screen-sharing Thank you All right, excellent. I think we're right up against the hour that and we got through the whole agenda this time I think that's the first time we've actually got Yeah Thank you, I guess part of it is because we split the document code so we have to we're doing all the arguments over there We now have a meeting another meeting where we won't get to the agenda Thank you guys Thanks, bye Bye