 So, let's go ahead and get started, shall we? Today's theme reminds us that we are in a strange time. The doubling of book challenges and censorship issues, attempted school board and library board takeovers, disinformation, AI language models, and any attempt of understanding the other is deemed offensive. Folks are demeaning others for feeling empathy for other people, or even mentioning the historical facts of systemic prejudices in this country. Learning about other people is hard. American history is messy. They both can be uncomfortable. Librarians from many kinds work on many, if not all, of these issues for their communities. Patrons and students, in order to contribute, however small, to moving our republic to a more perfect union through education. One of the primary ways we do this in a variety of manifestations is through media and information literacy. But we can't go it alone, and we'll always work with teachers, scholars, and community members to help make media and information literacy a reality in the lives of those we serve. Hoping that this will move people to understand others better. As we face many of these challenges, we are all stronger together. Now that being said, I'd like to introduce our keynote panel today. Today we have a great panel of a variety of different librarians from different types of libraries, and I think it's going to be a great panel here at the beginning of our kickoff here. First of all, I'd like to introduce our moderator, Michelle Oh, Associate Professor and Librarian for Open Access and Equity at Oakton College. And then our panelists, Jennifer, excuse me, our panelists, Stephanie Dimitriaitis, Assistant Professor at the College of Communications from DePaul University and the Co-Director for the Center of Media, Psychology, and Social Influence at Northwestern University. Kathy Gottlieb, Library Director for the Naperville Central High School. Tish Hayes, the Information Literacy Librarian at Moraine Valley Community College. And Kate Levinson, the Youth Services Librarian at Niles Main District Public Library. Join me in giving them a round of applause as they come up. One more time, a round of applause. Michelle? Hi. I was having trouble deciding where I was going to sit. Like, should I stand here and loom over everybody, or should I sit? So I've selected the more safe option. So good morning, everybody. My name is Michelle, and I'll be your moderator. And I was asked to talk a little bit first, so I shall do so. But I'm very, very excited to be on this stage with such interesting and such forces in the information and media literacy space. Okay. So I'm actually, I just feel so humbled to be here at all. And I think I have to admit that I have a very limited or specific lens through which I see information literacy. I've worked at four different colleges now as a reference and instruction librarian. So honestly, like, I'm a one-trick pony. Like, I know, I just see everything in one way. But I've worked at a research one, a small liberal arts, a mid-sized public university, and now I found my home in community colleges. And like I joked earlier, someone will find me at the end of my life, facedown on my desk there. I really do feel like I found my home. But the theme of our panel today is stronger together. And really what we wanted to think about is just how we are stronger when we know about the work everybody in our community is doing, and how that makes our individual work even stronger. So for example, when I was at Northeastern Illinois University, I coordinated the information literacy program there. And one of the really fun things that you get to do when you're at Northeastern and you coordinate information literacy is you get to invite high school groups to come and visit. So we would have a number of groups come through, like Jones College Prep from the Chicago Public Schools. And also we would have some suburban school districts come through to learn more about how to do college-level research when these students were in high school. So that's one thing we learned was about the AP research curriculum. So we also learned what kind of resources and what kind of information literacy skills students were entering college with or without, rather. But I also learned a lot about the structural aspects of this too. So at Northeastern we found that even though we were hosting these groups of students, Northeastern didn't offer AP credit for research. So students were taking a class that we were not giving them college credit for. So that was something while we were there we thought about how we could remediate and it actually became like, it's going to be a long process that's still ongoing. At Oakton College, where I met now, we just changed our name. So if anybody's feeling a little bit shell-shocked from it, we have a lot of expensive signs. We have a dual credit program for students who enter as well. So we recently hosted a group from Maine West, which was really awesome. And they were doing the dual credit English 102 course. But when they came they loved to be on the campus and they went and got hash browns in the middle of their break time from the college cafeteria. But they also told us that they could actually enter college as juniors because of these amazing dual credit programs. And also, you know, back in 2019, I worked with a friend when I was at Northeastern, Jen Banas, who was a professor of public health, and we worked on a project regarding health literacies. And we did that with the Youth Services Department at the Chicago Public Libraries. And our basic understanding at that time was that there were problems with health literacy, but it really limited the sharing and understanding of health and health information, particularly for vulnerable populations. And we saw as many of you probably experience on a daily basis that libraries, particularly our public libraries, have really changed and become re-envisioned as community centers and resource providers beyond what they were originally imagined to be. And subsequently, we found that it seemed that libraries would subsequently be well positioned to help students, or sorry, patrons overcome health literacy challenges. And so our research team did a survey and a focus group, and basically found that teens were actually turning to their libraries for health information. And we found that librarians really didn't have a lot of training and health reference. And so as part of that project, we tried to find ways to provide that kind of intervention. And I'm currently a member of the Executive Board of the Illinois Library Association, so I'm one of the board liaisons to the Intellectual Freedom Committee. So I've been hearing a lot about these very emotionally charged book bands and other challenges that are happening in a really great time of political division in our state. And so all these intersections in our field have been percolating with me as I've been planning. And when I was asked to think about the importance of media and information literacy in the current moment, I was like, what? It's really important, y'all. It's like everything, right? We engage with information to inform nearly all aspects of our lives, like what recipes we cook, our health care, what's true in the news, and even if you want to avoid it, you cannot. Targeted disinformation campaigns are real and they are effective. And if we look at the 2020 presidential election in the United States, we know this to be true. There are intelligence agencies from other parts of the world infiltrating spaces on the web to normalize the purchases and use of weapons in terrible ways. So disinformation is really a threat to our democracy. And now with the emergence of publicly accessible AI tools or artificial intelligence tools like chat GPT, we have a new and life-changing area of literacies that we need to investigate. And I think for some of us in higher ed, the conversation has been very limited in scope. It's just been, is this cheating? What's cheating? How do we stop the cheating? But I think there's much more to that conversation that needs to be explored. I think reference going forward is going to involve much more than finding citations. It may involve the development of keywords and strings that can be used to ask AI tools the right questions. And the tools are changing. So in a recent article about science research and nature, about AI science search engines, a researcher, Clementine Furrier, said that a year in machine learning is a century in any other field. The chat GPT we saw in December has come so far right now. So something that I have heard, and folks from Northwestern probably know this, that even right now librarians are interacting with patrons that report issues from chat GPT. They're sending links that don't exist, and these are called hallucinations. And I think that we'll start to see more of this because chat GPT is making these probabilistic links to references that are not real. And I think there's going to be changes in the tools too. An interesting example of a new research AI is called Consensus, and that's a search engine for science research. And it uses AI to simplify finding economic answers. AI summarizes and analyzes texts and extracts useful findings based on a query. So what it's really good at is reading and understanding, and it can do so with pretty good confidence. And the tools are not perfect, but they're very good. And what we know now is we don't need perfection. We need to get closer to truths. And when we agree on them and we build on them, we build consensus, right, which is like the name of the tool. And this is a really powerful new area that we can support the research community and information literacy. So as a profession, we are impacting the larger system of how people learn, how people live, and what they believe. And how they navigate and succeed in their professional lives. So for example, if you don't know how to use social media in your life or at your job, there's people waiting. To trick us, waiting to bias us, or get us to buy stuff. And so knowing the difference between even a sponsored link and a regular link impacts people's privacy in life in ways that we may not even comprehend. So my closing thoughts, I just was thinking about an equity lens to this as well. As a profession, I think we know good ways for people to find and evaluate information. We know how people seek information, and there's really good research on this practice. We know the theories, we know what works, and what doesn't work. So why is this not working? What are we not doing to help people? And why are there disparities in accessing information for marginalized communities or the historically excluded? And how can we convince people to use proper news sources? And so I know I'm ending with a bunch of questions before we start asking questions of our panelists. But I think what I kind of concluded with all this is that we just have this incredible responsibility. And I think our presence all here today shows a commitment to that. So thank you. And I will now give our panelists a chance to talk for a couple of minutes. And each of us are going to introduce ourselves and tell us a little bit about how media and information literacy shows up in your work. And why is information literacy important? And I think maybe the natural progression will be just on the table if that's all right. Hi, I'm Kate Levinson. I work at, my pronouns are she, her. And I work at Niles Main District Library. I've been there for 15 years. So I've sort of moved through a whole bunch of different roles. I started as, my, the position I was hired into is sort of a generalist. And the idea was to grow into my role. And so I started at the very, the sort of foundational skills that children's librarians do. I was like a hardcore story time librarian working with, you know, doing between early on, I think I was doing between like 10 and 20 story times a week. And with all different age groups from like, you know, infants to six year olds. And it was a really dynamic time because just sort of becoming, pardon me, becoming fluent in, though, in dialogic reading and shared media experiences with the very young, but in such a, you know, like from the outside it's a very narrow window of time, but like the way time works for such young children. It's like, you know, six years being an entire lifespan at some point. So you really get down into sort of the granular understanding of how children acquire, like acquire an understanding of the literacy experience. So it's just a really fascinating time to hone my skills of, you know, reading while observing and learning to how to use the information I was gathering as I was reading to pace and engage with children through books and to demonstrate that reading and literacy is a real social experience. So that is sort of where, that's sort of the root of all the work that I do. And as I've continued, I've gone on to, once we sort of, once I sort of passed that sort of early few years, I was tasked with opening a, in 2014 I opened a steam lab. We had like a small room and it was supposed to be a makerspace, but I kind of found that to be like, especially with, for kindergarten through fourth grade. So I sort of moved on past the like early little stage to kindergarten through fourth grade. And that was, that challenge was sort of working with groups of kids who are both, you know, learning to read and reading to learn. So it was, so what I, rather than doing a makerspace, which I felt at the time was sort of a way to like industrialize the learning experience in the library and, you know, sort of goal oriented to create something really specific. What I wanted to do is create a space that could harmonize learning structure, like structured learning with the creative process. So again, the best thing about being a librarian is that I don't have to assess anyone at any point. I just get to play around and goof around and then sort of, and so what I, but I also wanted to root it in some form of, root it in what kids were learning in their, you know, in their school lives. I actually, well, I didn't steal. I was given a science, the science companion curriculum. I don't know if anyone's familiar with that, but it's an inquiry based science program developed at the University of Chicago. And I worked with a friend of mine who's a curriculum developer over there. And so we just took sort of what kids were learning, like the curriculum they were learning. And I just sort of pulled the puzzle pieces apart and tried to adapt them to a library setting where nobody, you know, and, you know, libraries, none of it's homework, none of it's required. So it was more a matter of inviting kids into a space with, you know, sometimes with their siblings, sometimes with kids they had never met before and creating a like unified learning experience. So I don't know if that's my, that's my time. But so that's sort of like, and so from there I've moved on in my more recent role, which is, oh, and something I found was very necessary in that space was to continue bringing books and that shared reading experience. So, you know, giving kids a break from having to read on their own in school to, you know, being allowed to, you know, kids who have great reading skills. And just having that be, you know, bringing that early literacy experience into an experience for older kids was a great launching point for them to do some real recreational learning in the library. So so now right now what I, so that's sort of my role sort of worked again at some point where now basically I do, I'm the curriculum support librarian at my school. So all the teacher requests that come in from the eight or 10 local schools in our district. And I provide all the materials for them and I also manage our entire collection. So my, so I'm a real book person basically. I'm not, so when it comes to online tools, that's less my strength. But if anyone needs a book on sort of any subject, that's sort of what I'm talking about. Sorry, I think I went over. I'm Kathy Gottlieb and I'm in my 12th year at Naperville Central High School. And I do want to give a shout out to one of our students, Brayden Hager, who was instrumental in working with our state representative, Janet Yang Rohr, in getting the media literacy bill on the docket and passed. And he really did a lot of work on that. I wish I could take more credit for working with him on it, but I did meet with him a few times, he really did that as part of, we offer a humanities capstone class and he was part of that. And he was also on our newspaper staff. So media is obviously very important to him. But in my role as a librarian, in addition to the books and the collection development, I work a lot with teachers and classes as a whole in teaching research skills. So that's everything from keyword searching to which database should I use, how do I effectively search on Google, so present things to classes as a whole and then also work a lot with students individually as they work through their research projects, especially the capstone classes that have really in-depth research projects that they are working on. So those are always a lot of fun. You get to see all kinds of topics, especially for the Global Scholars Program because they're researching things, you know, all over the world. But media literacy really, I think, has become even more important now because there's so much information all the time. Students are, whether they realize it or not, they need to be able to critically evaluate what they see, whether it's on a TikTok video, on a Discord chat, or, you know, they're not on Facebook, but, you know, whatever platforms are on, they need to really be able to get in the habit of just kind of automatically looking at what they're seeing and thinking about, you know, where it's coming from. Especially as we've seen news and entertainment blend, blur the line so much, and Michelle talked about disinformation campaigns. You know, these are skills that we need as adults too, and we all know people who are, I'm sure I've been guilty of it too, even just like clicking and sharing articles without really reading all the way through it, just based on the headline and not thinking about how accurate, true, you know, all that stuff. So, it's really important that we get these students, you know, high school is really, they have a lot of freedoms, they are exposed to a lot, they're really in those formational years as they get ready for college and beyond. I took some little notes here, let's see if I missed anything. So really we just need to help them, teach them to be able to critically analyze what they're seeing, whether it's something for entertainment or more informative. Hey everyone, my name is Tish Hayes, I am the Information Literacy Librarian at Marine Valley Community College, and since Information Literacy is in my title, you can imagine that that is something that I spend a lot of time doing and thinking about. Mostly it's in traditional instruction sessions. So, we have one-shots where we talk about finding and evaluating information. When we're working with students at the reference desk, that's absolutely another opportunity to talk about information and evaluating the information students are coming across. In fact, I think in some ways that's a better opportunity to have those conversations when it's one-on-one like that. And I spend a lot of time talking to faculty about how they're integrating information literacy into their research assignments, how that's working out for them, while I'm also supporting them in teaching specific databases and things like that. One thing that we've been spending a lot of time at Marine talking about is how to introduce lateral reading, so we've really shifted our information literacy instruction towards a much more. Utilizing concepts like SIFT and lateral reading to kind of move away from checklists, which I think is probably what y'all are doing as well. And one of the things that I think we... that I think about a lot is, as Michelle said, I have a very narrow focus. I have been at Marine for the last 10 years. My two previous jobs were at community colleges. That's my wheelhouse, is working with the first two years of college students. And I love it. It's so good and I've been exposed to so many things through that, but it also leaves out the experiences that they're having before they come to Marine and then the experiences they have when they leave. And so I think for me, thinking about information literacy, it's been really important to be involved. It's been useful to be really involved in the summit over the last many years, just to widen my own perspective and to hear those different... the ways people are engaging with information literacy outside of my narrow focus. And the NCARLE instruction section was, I think, really useful for the last couple years as well, just in, again, seeing what other people are doing. So it's exciting to be on this panel and just get to hear how other people are engaging young people and older people around these ideas of information and evaluating the mess of content that we're seeing on a day-to-day basis. Hi, everyone. Pleasure to be here. My name is Stephanie Dimitriades. I'm an assistant professor of communication at DePaul, not DePage, which I know I will, I'll say the wrong one at some point. And it really feels like such an honor to be here. Obviously, I come from a different kind of disciplinary perspective and I think it'll be so useful for me and I hope for everyone to try and bridge some of those perspectives and thinking about the role of information literacy and misinformation. As a bit of background in my own research and work, a lot of my work in communication has centered on health communication and access, as you were saying, Michelle, to among different kind of vulnerable populations or marginalized populations at the same time a lot of my teaching and my research also has to do with how people process and remember information and how the information environment and new technologies complicate or amplify or generally stir the pot of how this all works. So my research and a lot of my teaching now is looking at the connections between our own deep centuries, millennia old cognitive biases that are now being amplified and unexpected and sometimes really kind of sticky ways by new technology. So recognizing that misinformation itself is certainly nothing new but that we are dealing with a new kind of environment that requires a different kind of approach instead of tools. I think maybe where my focus will be complementary, I hope, is in thinking and recognizing that access to information and high quality information and credible sources and so on is essential but it's half the battle. It's what we do in terms of understanding, processing, remembering and utilizing that information. That is the real challenge and I'm sorry to say that so far the scales are tipped in favor of misinformation so it is these kind of interdisciplinary approaches I think are going to be incredibly important. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you all so much. We actually have formal questions now for each of our panelists who you can see really bring in such diverse perspectives and if everyone's okay we'll just continue on. So Kate, in our planning calls leading up to this summit you shared the belief that the best place to go when you need to learn about something new regardless of age is the children's section of the public library and I don't disagree. Can you tell us a little bit more about this idea and about the curriculum support work you do in your role? Yeah, so I, yeah, there is a picture books are such a deceptively complex form of media and I really, over the years I have been just perpetually shocked and surprised and just delighted to see how much better children, how much children demonstrate and explain the content of picture books to me like all the time they just find the most amazing. I could have read a picture book like 30 times to myself and then I read it with a group of kids and they point something out that I've never seen before. This is not a belief, this is actually this sort of belief that you can learn if you want to learn something new. This actually came from a library science professor in my 101 class and he was sort of, I think he was focused on really learning like a new skill but when I opened the underground steam center at the library I really saw this come to life. Kids were, I always went in to eat early on especially I went in with like really structured lesson plans for the underground and the way it was structured is it was like a two hour window and I needed to see as many kids as possible so I would divide that into four 30 minute sessions. Actually originally it was six 20 minute sessions but that was really very intense so I made those sessions a little bit longer and allowed a few more kids in because it's a really small room and so I would start with, you know my first year I think I was starting with a lot of plans and then feeling like I didn't have an anchor so once, and once I really, I actually got really lucky, the Scott Forsman Library was closing down their corporate library so they were like we need to do something with all these books so I went in so they gave me like hundreds of sort of just wonderful nonfiction books for kids so I sort of built a pretty good library just in this tiny little room and every 30 minute session started with a book and so we were doing all sorts of different, each month had a different theme so we would start with physics and we would find just that we would open a book and read through it and lead ourselves into, and then the creative activity would sort of stem from the story. So for, so, sorry. Actually I was going to ask you really quickly. Yeah please. I think we may have had the same library school professor. Yeah. Professor Crawford. Yeah. Did he run the Sulzer, the children? Yes. Okay. I remember that exactly. And he talked about Ohio all the time. Yeah. He came from the Ohio, yeah. So any, so, sorry. When I, so just, so when, Oh no no, here. And I'm also going to share an anecdote which I shared earlier which Kate is in my district and that was, Niles Main was my public library district so I admitted that I was one of those nightmare children whose parents, whose family dropped them off in the morning and then came back after work. The Wonderground was actually the best place for all those nightmare children. So like I said, we had this, so it's this little space with this sort of focus nonfiction library. One of the, one of my favorite kids was one of these other kids. And she, her grandmother would come with her and drop her off and like I said, we were trying to run in these sessions so get, you know, six kids in and six kids out. But Willa was a featured, like she just wouldn't leave. So she, so she went, she sort of became my guide to like, to, she became the kids got like a liaison between me and all the kids. And so one of her favorite resources was a book called Does It Fart? And it's all, it's like 110 animals and whether or not they fart. And it's a really great reference book. It's tiny, but it is, you know, every year we would start with a library science. At the beginning of the school year, I wanted to start with a library science theme. So it was getting them to map out our, our departments so that they could use it throughout the school year. But also a guide to how to use resources. So any new kid who came in like Does It Fart would come off the, would come off the shelf and Willa would explain how a reference book works to the whole group. And so she would explain how, you know, it was alphabetical and how you could use the index to, to, to find out if you were curious about a really specific animal or how to get to the, you know, two animals that don't fart, which would be like an amoeba and a jellyfish, I think. So, so the, so the Wonder Ground sort of became this way for me to, you know, it's, it was just a fun after school place where kids could, you know, would come, sometimes one of the best experiences would always be if a child came in with, with, you know, we had two kids who were in the same family. So we had like a first grader and a fourth grader. And you would, we say we were doing our sound, like a sound theme. So we were spending the entire month talking about that sound is made of vibrations and what's the vibration and how does it work. And so we would, and you know, you would see that the older kid would be like, oh, we learned about this in third grade or we learned about this in second grade. And then the, you know, the kindergarten or first grade or brother or sister would be like, you did? And then like, so I'm going to learn about this, you know, in two years or I'm going to learn. And so they would really love to acquire this like weird knowledge that they felt like was the secret that they'd be able to like reveal when the time was right. And so, and again, every, every lesson sort of was anchored in this, you know, collection we had that was like always on the shelf and accessible. So they would, and again, since none of this is like required, they would consistently return to their memories of things we had done months previously, the year, you know, the previous year and connected to like an emotional experience and memory that we all sort of had as a group or maybe like some kids had come back and other kids had not, but like they had just this amazing memory for what we had learned in this space and the other people who had learned it, you know, who had been in the room with them and then relating those stories of those experiences. So it, you know, even though it wasn't like a specific classroom or, you know, the kids weren't a fixed group, it was like constantly morphing and changing, they would just remember each other for the things that they had learned together. So again, information literacy looks really different in a public library and it's not, like I said, I never have to evaluate them at all. But the evaluation for the space of the work that we're doing together is constantly sort of, it just sort of makes, it gets into the walls somehow. So yeah, so that is, and then as the space sort of moved it, I, this, my friend, my friend Jen Heligee, who works at the Cannon Lab at the University of Chicago, really started to see that as a research lab, it was actually a really useful tool to develop other projects and use, like, sort of study how recreational learning can be used for larger projects. And so she, she's, so the Cannon Lab does a lot of, like, computer science work and they have a project that they're working on now that's, you know, that is a, it's like their quantum computing, they're trying, they're, they have a quantum computing project where basically they're trying to prepare, like, future coders for a, for, like, for quantum coding. So, like, basically understanding its quantum physics for, like, kids. And so the when she was, when she was learning, looking to develop, you know, such a, we, like there's no picture books on quantum computing. There's no, or quantum physics. It's, I mean there, there's a, there's a couple, but they don't work. So when she was, but what she wanted to support her lessons and materials, she was like, are there picture books that can address some of these concepts through fiction or fictional narratives? And so, you know, one sort of, so the various concepts one is like, quantum, quantum code has to be written, has to be reversible. You have to be able to write the code and then un, you know, uncode. It's like, so you have to go backwards and forwards. And that's like a narrative structure that is, that children's literature is rich in. I mean, I don't know if you know, go away big green monster. But, you know, the, it's a book in where, you know, the big, the big green monster has two big eyes. A long greenish nose. And a big red mouth with sharp white teeth. And so eventually we get to this big, crazy monster. We're supposed to be scared of him. And so, and he's got a big scary face. But, you don't scare me. So go away, scraggly purple hair. So we're going to start, you know, pulling apart the monster a little bit. So in that concept, you know, I actually brought some materials if anyone would want to look at them. But the quantum computing concept, like the concept of reversibility is just all over children's literature. So we would put, so we, you know, we read that story and then we have this game where you have to basically, it's like a skipping game where you go from, you have to put the numbers in order and then reverse them. So, you know, all of those, so again, when anyone sort of comes to me and is looking for any sort of, any way to deliver information to kids, just finding stories that reflect those narratives. It's, our library is just rich with them. So, thank you so much. It just proves that your job is way funner than most of our jobs. But I just, I mean, some of the things that you shared are just about the information being in the air or like they're being a sense memory. I just find that so beautiful and wonderful. So, there was one more thing that, when you're talking about, there's a really interesting correction I find myself having to make when it comes to disinformation of adults. There's so much knowledge that adults like sort of believe that they have. That'll come into the library a lot. Like, just for an example, just as an example, whenever you're talking about bees, something I was noticing is that parents would, when kids ask where honey, like how do bees make honey? Like, all the parents I was meeting, they thought that honey was made from bee poop, which was like this weird sort of correction that we sort of had to make together where like, you know, I would see a kid ask, like, you know, how's honey made? And the parents would be like, you know, how's bee poop? And then, so something we would do is be like, well, that's cool. You know, it's not like totally out of the realm of truth. But then, so we could, but there's, again, how bees make honey is, there's the zillions of books on that. So being able to like pull a book off the shelf and be like, this is actually, you know, the process that, that was, that's a really, I don't know, that was interesting. So thank you. And I will say, I have two young children who correct me every morning. So I understand that feeling. So thank you. And if anybody, you know, we're supposed to be fairly loose and we actually only met once and we actually didn't get to meet Stephanie or we didn't, so this is very lovely. But feel free to, we're doing great on time, I think. So don't rush anybody. So Kathy, I have your question. If you're, you're ready to roll. Ready? Okay. How is the evolving information landscape, both new technologies and evolving social norms around information impacted your understanding of the information literacy needs of high school students? And are there any resources that have proven particularly useful in navigating this change? Well, honestly, and this has really happened in a very short time. It's in most of our lifetimes where the history of resources has changed so fast. His resources that students could access, not that long ago, were all curated either by teachers, by librarians, by parents. They couldn't, they would have to go to a library or a classroom or books at home to find what they needed, find the information they needed for assignments or just for their own curiosity. Or, you know, they, they would, they were, you know, selected resources. Which could be good or bad, you know, depending on who's doing the curating. And often information was not available at all. You know, we see a lot of students now who have questions about all kinds of things. And if you, you know, a lot of that information is still not available in schools. But the progression has been very quickly to make everything more accessible. We've gone from print resources and microfilm to CD-ROM encyclopedias, which were super exciting. I know my kids, kids, you know, our first home computer, we had some of those early, early programs. And then Wikipedia and Google and the whole wide internet started coming about. And a lot of teachers were freaked out about, oh, kids are just going to copy things out of there. No, you can't use Wikipedia to, you know, do your research. You know, we're not going to use Google. We're going to, you know, we're still going to go to the library and you're going to have to, you know, look it up in encyclopedia. Well, kids, very quickly were like, well, I don't want to do that. I want, you know, the more up-to-date information. And it's continued through the online proliferation of social media sharing, all kinds of news, real news, fake news, entertainment news, misinformation, you know, satire, whatever students want to, and adults want to follow, you can easily go down that path. And, you know, we've heard about filter bubbles, where your searches are, you know, getting narrow and narrower or based on your prior search history, a lot of advertising and paid posts or, you know, things that float to the top of Google that skew your search results to. And now our newest adventure will be with chat GPT and what teachers and students can do with that. It can be just like anything. It can be a tool to help a lot, like you talked about with some of the scientific research, or it can be a tool to help you cheat. And it's just kind of, when it comes to that, we need to really, and it's a challenge to, you know, teach the students, well, what do you want to get out of this? Do you just want to copy and paste something, or do you really want to learn about it? And, you know, the younger kids have that much, you know, the natural curiosity. A lot of students, by the time they get to high school, it's just, I just need to get this assignment done and turn it in, and I'm sure that continues on with college, too. In addition, you know, alongside the information changing, our devices have changed. You know, it used to be, you know, print books in the library, then, you know, one or two computer labs in a school to maybe a couple of carts of laptops that could be moved around to different classrooms to now, especially with COVID, probably almost every school in the state has one-to-one devices, maybe not for all grade levels, but for sure, high school colleges now pretty much expect a student to buy their own laptop or, you know, have lots of computers accessible in places like the library, and the ubiquitous cell phone that every student I see in high school has one of these. So, they have access to the information, and so that becomes our challenge. You know, even though this generation of students is what we call digital natives, it doesn't mean they automatically know how to search for things properly, or how to narrow things down properly, or I know, you know, my own personal searching, you start going on all these different rabbit holes, and you're like, oh, this is interesting, well, then you click on that, and by the time you're half an hour into it, you're like, wait, what was my original question? So, we really need to teach them how to not only effectively search and use information, but ethically use it, and that goes to, yes, you could use ChatGPT to write your paper for you. You could just copy and paste that. You can pull that image off the internet, or pull that song off, but especially as they get into college and beyond, they can't, you know, YouTube will shut you down. If you, you know, you get three strikes, and you can't post any more information on YouTube if you're putting copyrighted material. So, the search engines that we use are getting more powerful, and also the search engines, probably not the right term, but what YouTube and some of those platforms are using are getting much more sophisticated also in finding information. And because it's very hard to find a person to talk to on YouTube or Facebook or Google if you get booted off their platform, it can be really hard. Imagine what happened to you if you got booted off of Google and your whole life is in Gmail and Calendar and all those things. So, ethically using resources is a big part of our work with students. And it's not just for research projects anymore. Clearly, they're getting information all day long, whether, you know, much more than just class assignments. It used to be they would just go to the library when they had a homework assignment or a project, but as we see ourselves, we're inundated, our headlines pop up constantly, you know, whether it's a Twitter post or a news alert from whatever news sources you follow or a new TikTok video. There's lots of studies about how addictive these devices are, but we really need to teach the students and teach ourselves how to quickly analyze this information. Do I need to address this right now? Is this accurate? Is this entertainment? Is this satire? What are we really looking at? And that part of the, you know, the lateral reading, that's a huge part of, especially for research, I would say we probably are less likely to do that when it's just, you know, looking at things that pop up on our phones. And so until that becomes second nature, students are still going to, you know, struggle with, you know, trying to figure out what's misinformation versus accurate information. They really need to question, you know, what's the source, the purpose, the bias, the credibility, relevance, all those things that we've talked about, but we've been talking about it in terms of their research. I think we need to change that mindset and get them to practice that with everything they look at. And this, we can't do this by ourselves, obviously, especially high school and college. We're lucky if we see a class once in a semester or a year, or I know there are classes I never see. There are teachers in certain departments that I have never worked with. So it's got to go beyond just the library. It's got to be working with teachers. The curriculum development teams bring this stuff into curriculum, add more, you know, access points. So, you know, if you are in a government class, say, you know, have students find something on TikTok that's relevant to whatever topic you're talking about, and then have them analyze it in class. It doesn't have to be a huge research project. It can be short, quick, start of the class, last 10 minutes on a Friday, you know, just find natural ways, because you're looking at that information. So we need to really encourage them and teach them to analyze what they're seeing. And parents are a big part of this too, especially for the younger students. You've seen students, you know, children come in and the parents are there, so they're hearing what the students are learning. Younger schools, elementary, junior high, there's still a lot more contact with parents. That's certainly less the case in high school, where parents will, there, you know, some parents are obviously very involved in their students' experiences, but it's not so much on something like this. It's more making sure they're doing okay in classes and grades following up on those. As for sources, there are, it's almost, there's too many. There's so many resources available. Statewide things like the Illinois Media Literacy Coalition, I see Michael Stipes from there. IL is the K-12 State Library Association. So they're working on revamping their standards and national projects like Stanford Civic Online Reasoning has tons of resources and they work with a lot of schools to build in, not just media literacy, but a lot of civics topics into everyday instruction. The News Project has great resources. They have webinars. They have lesson plans that are ready to go. You can search for age, you know, whatever age topics. There's just so much information. For some of the younger students, Common Sense Media has lots of resources. Google's be internet awesome. And I think that also goes to, like, for so long we've focused on digital citizenship, which is, you know, teaching about cyberbullying, online predators, things like that. And those aren't necessarily curriculum focused, where I think we need to also shift that mindset from, we still have to teach on that. It's all state mandated for K-12 or pre-K-12, but we have to expand it into the media literacy, which is also now in the state ISBE requirements. So kind of building on that. I think the younger grades are more still focusing a lot on the digital citizenship things, but still in high schools, we certainly see, and I'm sure Colin Shue, lots of bullying. And it kind of goes beyond that. It's not just that, but kids are so involved with whatever social media platforms they follow that part of it is educating them, like, you're not seeing the whole picture. Yeah, that person's life looks really great, but you're not seeing how much work they put into getting to that point. And I think that goes to, there's lots of studies coming out about how harmful social media is to self-image and mental health. That has to be part of the discussion and education, too. So it's a lot, though. I mean, everybody really has to be involved in that and whether or not you have students of your own, children of your own, as those natural conversations open up, take those opportunities, and also don't perpetuate the bad sides of social media. I went a little off-topic there. No, thank you so much. It was really enlightening. I think there's a lot that sometimes we don't know what kind of standards and requirements are happening at the high school level. So sometimes, for me, even some of these words that you said, I was like, oh, really? That's required. So thank you so much. And Tish, this will be interesting because we are talking about lateral reading. Kathy, too. But at Marine Valley, or Marine Valley hosted the summit for a long time. I don't know if anybody went there for that. This is so exciting. We're all here together for the first in person in such a long time. And you were involved in that for many years. So how have you seen the conversations around media and information literacy at the summit evolve over time? And how have you come to understand dispositions around curiosity, open-mindedness, and a spirit of inquiry as core information literacy skills? Thank you for that question. I took that question pretty literally. So we are actually going to revisit some summit keynotes for the next few minutes. But I want to frame that with kind of where I am now and maybe where some of you might be as well. About a year ago, I read this article by Barbara Fister called Principled Uncertainty. Why learning to ask good questions matters more than finding answers. And it like shook my brain up. And I've been thinking about sitting with this article for the last year and just very briefly to summarize, she uses project information literacy by means that recent college graduates don't feel confident in their ability to ask questions. And that they feel a great discomfort with ambiguity, with uncertainty. So they don't have the, they're not well versed in like the iterative process of inquiry. And so when faced with a question that they don't have an answer to, immediately try to fill it with information. And she, you know, I think also expands that to many of us have experienced those moments of liminality. Like just at the beginning of the pandemic was a metaphor that she used. So many of us didn't know what was happening. We were looking for any piece of information and there's so much anxiety in that moment. And so many of our students are facing that anxiety for many reasons across their academic lives. And so although students or recent graduates felt really comfortable with finding and evaluating and using information they didn't have this other really important skill of asking questions. And so again I've been sitting this with for a year and Barbara Fister has many recommendations for how to address this, recommend reading it. And she talks a lot about curiosity and what practicing curiosity might do and how we might readjust our teaching to focus on fostering curiosity. And so I've been thinking about where curiosity is supported and the assignments I see and teach to. Where and how I see it actively suppressed in assignments or in classroom and institutional policies. Again what conditions need to exist in order for students to actually engage in and actively have the agency to pursue their curiosities in a classroom. And so in preparation for this panel I think the way we've been talking about information literacy over the last decade has led us to this moment of being able to kind of really think through how we can foster that curiosity. And so there's although the information landscape kind of keeps shifting and fracturing I think there's three threads that I've taken from the past Keynotes that I think can help us to go through some of these issues. So to start going back to 2014 Treaty Jacobson and Tom Mackie were at the summit talking about meta literacy and meta literacy is a term that I don't I don't use very often and there are probably people in here who are much more well versed in the theories of meta literacy than I am but they developed it in response to the big shift in the way students were engaging with information. So whether that's you know social media open educational resources was something that they mentioned like all of the traditional ways that we evaluated information were kind of shifting or in flux. And so this idea of meta literacy takes us out of or helps us expand our skills and our tools and helps us think differently about information and the skills that we need to evaluate it. And then in 2019 Nicole Cook came to the summit to talk about the dark side of information and she really focused in on misinformation and disinformation and it was really incredible to hear her talk about the way Tom Mackie and Treaty Jacobson's work had influenced her own thinking and the ways in which our understanding of misinformation like it's being studied in all of these different disciplines. So it's you know information literacy we feel like some connection responsibility but also media studies information technology there's all kinds of academic disciplines that are looking at this but we're in academic silos and we're not talking to each other and we're not developing curriculum you know that addresses it across these different understandings and I think to continue on our summit journey Miriam Sweeney last last year was talking about algorithmic literacies and I know that that for me was an area that I felt really deficient in like there's a lot of the technology that actually impacts so much of what we see and understand and how we engage with information that I in my limited resources and readings like don't have a good grasp on and know that that's an area that I can improve and that as a profession I think we can really work on so that's kind of like some big picture stuff this this idea of meta literacy but then we also have to think about what's actually happening in our classroom so how are we engaging with students who come through our schools or our libraries and this is where I think critical pedagogy is really critical and I think the evolution of the way we incorporated critical pedagogies as a profession has been really extraordinary to me over the last 10 years so in 2016 Emily Durinsky gave a talk with an amazing title called critical pedagogy in a time of compliance and so that focus on critical pedagogy about how students do research and like what we're taking into the classrooms and how the framework with all of its many problems and issues allows us to do that like actually brings into conversation these ideas of critical pedagogies and then the next year Wendy Holiday gives an extraordinary talk that really focuses on resisting the impulse to rely on what we think we know about students and research and instead giving students agency allowing them to tell us who they are provide space to pursue questions that they have in ways that maybe we don't understand as academic and linear but are absolutely ways in which we can support them in this exploration and again like that idea of curiosity these are ways we can foster curiosity and real engagement with information and then the year after that Char Booth calls us to actions Char wants us to consider what we are doing at an individual and institutional level to remove barriers for students and so all of these talks are centering critical pedagogies that address the social, emotional and political aspects of learning and I think for a long time you might have had to look outside of library literature for those understandings and I think that's still really valid we should all be reading critical race theory queer theory disability studies we should be bringing in feminist pedagogies there's all of these different things that we can draw on outside of library literature but what I think has been extraordinary is in the last five years just the wealth of librarians and information literacy professionals and writing about these pedagogies and how they've shifted the way they think about who and is in the classroom and how we're engaging with those students and then kind of the third thread that I think has been really important professionally is Drebinski's acknowledgement in 2016 of compliance as a component of our work so we're always I think in this tension of doing things for our students but then having to like work within the structure of our institutions, whatever those are and Laura Saunders and Fubazi Itar both in 2021 talk about well Laura Saunders talks about neutrality and the professions kind of ongoing insistence or at least our engagement with what neutrality means or doesn't mean for us and then Itar's critique of vocational law helps us situate the ways our professional association and institutions again constrain our work and how we have internalized those constraints we I think are we love to help we love to do all of the things we like I hate seeing a student in crisis right like I will do what I can to like ensure that that student isn't in crisis but if we are to really develop these develop the spaces and the the lesson plan the resources for students to engage in curiosity if we're actually to be able to do that we need we as professionals need the space and support of our institutions we need to be able to we need professional development funds to learn more about how we do those things we need like physical spaces in the library we need staffing so that we have enough people to teach all of the classes in our friends desk so I think these are like the way we have been thinking about information has definitely evolved the way we think about teaching has evolved our way of engaging each other and our institutions has evolved and I think we're at a place where we just have to start bringing those things together and recognizing what we need and also what our students need and that that is really complicated and especially in this landscape and this information this again this mess of information that we're in like how do we support students as they are in these liminal spaces how do we how can we give them the emotional social supports that they need and I think like it's bigger than what we can do in this in a moment but I think it's something that's worth thinking about and continuing to talk about and continuing to like watch evolve and work towards making the changes we need to make Thank you so much Tish I feel like I went to some of those summits well I did go to some of those summits but now the ones that I didn't go to I feel informed so we're going to give our last question to Stephanie as a social scientist you bring a specific disciplinary perspective to this conversation can you tell us more about how concepts like cognitive bias which you referenced earlier and motivation factor into media literacy what are the limits of literacy as a framework for approaching the question of misinformation thank you for that just give me a wave if I need to yeah I think as I mentioned what one of the reasons I really enjoy being on this panel is this kind of complimentary approach of understanding access to credible accurate information and those kind of skills of research and so on as being really essential foundations but also thinking very in a very kind of clear eyed and sometimes painful way about what the limitations of that are and that begins with the understanding I think as I mentioned previously that we are it's a bit of an uphill battle we are working against cognitive biases and heuristics these mental shortcuts that for most of human evolution served us well but in this kind of context of a fragmented information overload kind of environment and particularly in a political and cultural social moment of change and polarization those same biases and heuristics can work very much against not just the kind of information that we are exposed to but what we do with it so I think we need to start with the first basic understanding that we are all very susceptible to misinformation that is the baseline we have to recognize that and then digging into the specific kind of mechanisms of what are the biases that are particularly relevant to this information environment as we start to unpick the research and in so many ways this is a new area of research so we are building it out we are building the plane as we are flying it as they say considering those specific heuristics and cognitive biases in the context of this kind of digital amplification and I think one way to think of it in a simplistic way to start is the process of encountering and processing information so we have talked a bit about the exposure and searching of information selective exposure and our tendency to seek out information that we already agree with and also to find it more convincing that is very well established Tish, as you mentioned as well there is also increasing recognition that it is not just the researcher or the student that we are now also dealing with much stronger push factors from algorithms which have been shown again and again to encourage more extreme, more exciting more polarizing kind of information because that is the kind of stuff that we are predisposed to engage with so I won't talk too much about selective exposure because I think that is an area where there is quite a lot of expertise already but thinking then about recognizing to begin with the information that we are accessing is not necessarily the full picture. What do we do with that information? Again I say we as human beings what are our brains these magnificent messy things doing with that information there is a concept in social psychology that some of you may be familiar with called motivated reasoning which is as the name suggests that we are cognitively motivated to reason to interpret information in ways that fit with our pre-existing world views or beliefs. What that means is that even if we are directing students to accurate credible sources the interpretation that they are coming to may not necessarily be in line with the credible expert scientific opinion so bad news I'll get to the good news we also have these deep-seated heuristics and biases things like a predisposition towards more negative sensationalist information which again if you've got a field of wildflowers on your right and a lion charging at you on your left it makes sense that that's what you would pay attention to evolutionarily but in the context of Twitter and social media and this extreme kind of tendency those highly emotional highly charged and often negative anger, fear anxiety provoking stories are the ones that tend to get the most emotion so again not great news we're stacking the scales we also have a predisposition to again deep deep-seated predisposition to find information more credible to look at it more carefully to analyze it more carefully if it is from sources who we feel similar to if it's from sources that who we like regardless of whether they are expert or credible which again you can easily see how that is exacerbated and amplified on Instagram, social media, various kinds. Information that is repeated and repeated exposure to information such as simple simple thing but one of the most powerful reasons and it's you mentioned honey is bee poop like how many times have you heard that and the challenge that we have found is misinformation researchers is that after that kind of stickiness there's what we call in the research the continued influence effect of misinformation which is that you can correct it and say no actually not bee poop but that is but after that immediate correction people tend to backtrack and revert back to believing misinformation so when it comes to information literacy and training I think one of the key things we have to think about is how do we rather than trying to shove the toothpaste back in the tube you know knowing that fact checking as tempting as it is the research just doesn't show that it's particularly effective to debunk or fact check after a false claim has been repeated or integrated into somebody's world view essentially the good news ish the good ish news the promising news is that understanding those kind of biases and these tendencies that we have we can start to look for levers that might adjust those in the opposite direction knowing that they will be there that they're deeply embedded in our cognitive processes how can we start to kind of raise some flags or shift the gears a little bit to the benefit so one of the most promising areas of misinformation research at the moment is again many of you may have already come across this idea of pre-bunking or psychological inoculation which is teaching people essentially not just how to identify credible information but also saying like look here are the kinds of misinformation that you are likely to encounter in a particular kind of context in a particular topic so if there's a new vaccine before it becomes the information environment becomes flooded with misinformation that at this point we can predict with pretty good confidence before we reach that point to just as we kind of vaccinate against actual viruses to to start to introduce like these are the kinds of false claims that you might see look out for them you build this kind of resistance to misinformation the same way that you can build it to infection and that's been upheld in a number of really promising studies and the idea there again is to get ahead of the game also this idea of stories and games I think these are becoming increasingly important areas of putting yourself in the shoes of someone creating disinformation and starting to recognize that oh these are the flags these highly charged emotional polarizing stories there are games that you can find online where are like the disinformations are and you start to just like you unpack that monster you start to see the features and there's some encouraging evidence that being aware of how the sausage sausage is made and that sort of thing you start to be able to build up more literacy in that sense so trying to again get ahead of it rather than simply correct it after the fact I think is the next big area of discovery and exploration we are right on time I'm so proud of us and thank you so much Stephanie I feel like I had started with a bunch of questions and you answered many of them I think and as well as our other panelists and you know as I've been taking notes and thinking about like the threads that go through this conversation I think most of us said something like massive information we are in a hot mess here everybody and we have so many of us have shared some possible or at least like provocative thoughts for us to rethink our own practices one of which seems to clearly be getting our children's books into our college libraries too so with that we're going to open up the session for questions and answers and the way that we would like to do this with time is we'd like to take two to three questions at a time and then we'll go and answer them and I'll try to filter the questions to whoever it may be the microphone is back there so raise your hand if you have a question and then I do want to call back to the code of conduct for the summit today as a reminder to this space for a variety of people to speak and different perspectives if possible so thank you my question is about lateral reading I'm from Julia Junior College and we've really taken an approach to look at lateral reading as a tool and I appreciated what you were saying about how looking more at how we look at information those biases that are there and just wondering what you think as far as incorporating these two aspects of teaching this or if you think that one is more prominent than the other as far as what the focus should be thank you and if we could get another question as well and then I'm going to go thank you so much for all of this I feel like you provided a really great overview my question is sort of tying together what you were talking about Tish about student agency like students feeling empowered to be curious and to not have simple answers and sort of tying that together with you know the power of algorithms there are things that people can do and we can teach students to do to sort of pre-bunk and be aware of sort of rhetorical devices and how misinformation can get in but what do we do about algorithmic systems in which algorithmic technology works right so for example we think about like tick-tock and people being sort of passive and that feeding on cognitive biases and things like that so how do we work with students to be sort of more aware of those things and how do we help them feel empowered in response to these really big systems that they don't really have control over thank you for both of those questions I think for our lateral reading question Kathy and Tish would you be open to answering that and then I think following that we'll talk about student agency and algorithmic systems and would Tish and Stephanie be open to with lateral reading it's going outside of so you find an article on at least this is my understanding of it let's say you find an article from whatever news or whatever source what can you find out about that source to help you identify what bias might be in it what purpose maybe who's funding it if it's this great fancy looking study about how smoking is not that bad after all but it's funded by the tobacco industry you know sometimes you have to dig pretty deep to find that so lateral reading is really trying to find out as much about that source as possible and also see like is this same thing just being repeated over and over in different sources always going back to that original source or are multiple sources independently coming to that same conclusion or that same information so that's kind of in a nutshell I think as far as like with you know tiktok for example I think if we can teach students to you know kind of practice maybe take one tiktok story that you found really interesting and really dig into that do some of that lateral reading on that too like find out where the story is coming from kind of doing some reverse look up are those videos manufactured are they modified are they CDI created you know just kind of that same kind of thing where you know just trying to get students to analyze what they're looking at and that comes with practice I mean they have to be given time be shown how and you know to practice that skill yeah I think lateral reading works really well when students don't have a lot of prior knowledge about something so they don't already have a lot of biases built up so like they genuinely don't know like who this person is or what this organization looks up and and find out this actually has this background with like hate speech didn't realize that I'm not going to use it for a project and so I want to I'm going to pass this on to Stephanie really really soon because I think I do think lateral reading is a lot harder if you already have a lot of cognitive biases and like related to the topic that you're researching and so it makes I think it complicates then what you're looking at when you're looking at lateral reading so if you're googling a source and you have strong feelings about what you're going to find it you have to deal with those strong feelings so I think it's it can be less effective in in those cases and then I think what I mean I think we're still working on this but like thinking about students being empowered to engage with algorithms and to like recognize them I think in some ways is is exposure so it's that idea that students aren't aware and even if they are aware of the algorithms that maybe they don't they don't feel like it's impacting them I think one of the things that we can do is really surface like how those algorithms are impacting them talk about it and have and help students do some of that analysis and I think I mean I'm still susceptible to Instagrams like ads and like I know that like it's just a truth but like the fact that we can just step away when I need to like if like resist it I think I think being I think Stephanie's kind of like vaccination metaphor like works really well when we when we can surface those things and talk about them and make them much more visible because like the whole point of those algorithms is that it's working to trap us into into like just like following down that rabbit hole and if we can at some point at least stop or be aware of it I think it makes us much more empowered to then shift our thinking yeah it's it's a real challenge I will say that lateral reading was not a term that I haven't really read so already excited I just wanted to mention you know I think one of the one of the real challenges is the kind of in-depth source assessment that you're describing it's a lot of work and so of course we're not going to do nobody is going to do all of that work every time they look something up so I think we do have to think about creative and kind of multiple angles of approach when it comes to this issue I just wanted to mention there's a service called news guard that I've been playing with I don't know if people are familiar with that it has it's unfortunately it's quite expensive now but I think you might get some ideas for activities and curriculum that you could build out along those lines and they rather than trying to fact check each story they provide these nutrition labels for various sources based on things like funding and transparency and so on and so forth and that approach as well I think we thinking about some of these metaphors like vaccines and health and nutrition labels like what are the values that we need to seek out in terms of credible sources can be useful so trying to understand it as a system rather than each individual story you know you have to dig into this whole process that nobody has time for in terms of the social media like the algorithmic bias and the role of algorithms and all of that again I think it's a complicated picture certainly there's a big piece as you were saying Tish opening the black box of the fact that these algorithms run so much of the or are influencing so much of the information that we see and especially for students I mean I teach college students I can't imagine with younger students even my students they signed up for Instagram when they were 14 they were never reading the terms and conditions and you know really haven't thought about the processes and the actual algorithmic processes that are going on behind the scenes so even fairly straightforward activities like you can go in on Instagram or Google and see the advertising profile that's been created for you and how you've been categorized and what kind of information is being promoted to you and seeing that I think can be at least the beginning of starting to think you know I am not in complete control here that there is this kind of underlying process going on and that can very often function in terms of stereotypes and in terms of more extreme information and so on and so forth so that's I think a key part at an individual level in the vein of curiosity I think one of the big challenges that we have as educators and as researchers is how to approach this with skepticism rather than cynicism and fatalism which is very common I think especially certainly I see it in my students there's this feeling of like it's too much to deal with so starting to break it down into individual pieces is really important I will say I think like so many of these grand social issues we have to be conscious of the fact that the individual consumer has an important role but as far as I'm concerned it is not ever going to be sufficient that we also need to be talking about platforms and policies because the decks are so stacked in these ways thank you all so much we I think we have time for maybe one more question sure thank you okay my question is decorate is toward Stephanie I'm really interested in doing to know more about what current trends are in misinformation research is there anything that you recommend or any like key recent studies you recommend that we look into yeah I mean this is as I said and others have said it's there's a lot of activity in this field as you can imagine in the in the past few years and unfortunately they have kind of scattered in terms of different disciplinary perspectives a lot of the work I think the most interesting and promising work now is focusing on what we can do about it in the early days of misinformation studies a lot was about understandably was about what is it about the information landscape about social media what kind of misinformation is spreading that kind of descriptive piece having established a lot of the trends that we've noticed for me I think the most exciting research is around things like psychological inoculation pre-bunking and these kind of these strategies that we can use to interrupt our own heuristics and cognitive biases and raise these flags that might make us pause and think about it thank you all so much for the conversation with us thank you all so much bringing all this incredible experience and expertise to this forum I think that this is okay for me to say I assume it's the case but I know we didn't have a ton of time for questions so feel free to grab any of us as you see as walking around to share your questions and comments so thank you so much and we really hope you enjoy this day one more round of applause thank you