 Like the total deal would be 1.5, but they only want to give you this to start. And it's like, nah, nigga, I got offered a 360, but they didn't want to give me no present back in exchange. So it's like, they can't properly assess value and tell you why it's just standard. And I think standard is for niggas who do standard shit. What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brain Man, Sean. Now I'm Corey. And we are back with another episode of No Labels, Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday, Apple Music Spotify, YouTube, every stream of your podcast here at the intersection of creative and currency. Artists, don't let people think being artistic means you can't be about your business and entrepreneurs you can be creative to. This is No Labels and we got the very perfect guess for the idea of No Labels. But again, the name is No Labels Necessary, which means, all right, you gonna get it regardless. It doesn't mean you don't do labels. It means you can get it without the labels and they can come along for the ride if they want to. None other than LaRussell, we are in the backyard, the purgula, check the environment. What's up, bro? Man, I'm well, I'm well, I'm honored. This is dope, bro. This is, this is a beautiful scenery, bro. Like catching a vibe. And I definitely want to get into it, like in terms of just the operation, right? But of course we got to start with the story, right? Get a sense of how you started. I was just talking to your dad while you were rehearsing. He was telling me when y'all have the shows because we haven't witnessed the show yet, right? That y'all got like a bounce house outside that y'all put out there. He told you, he seen you on YouTube? Nah, he didn't tell me that. Oh, okay, he just started. We just started talking, you know? He was just being like, hey man, who in my backyard, what's up? You know, I'm B Rush, you know what I'm saying? He hit me with that and we just started talking. But you know, again, the environment, like to go this direction, it's a direction that a lot of people don't go. That energy, like it's not necessarily cool in hip hop especially. So like starting early on, I heard that you were under a different name. Yeah, yep. Toto Shakur, right? Toto, yeah. Toto Shakur, I just use that as a moniker, but my artist name was Toto. Okay, so what created that? That vibe, what inspired that? And then I want to understand what made this transition happen. Tupac Shakur was my favorite artist. And Toto just came from just been around, young, just, you know, a nickname. And then the change was I finally made an album that was just like Hella Close to Home. It was my life story. It was all of everything that I experienced and been through. My music has been mostly that my whole career, but this one was more personal. Like my first two albums was more outer political, just talking about what's happening in the times. And then when I dropped that album, it was like, I need to tell my story as LaRusso, as who I am, as what my parents named me, you feel me? So it was just, it just felt like a legacy move. That's crazy, because it sounds like it's like, I know exactly who I am now. You know what I mean? And I, not that you never knew who you were, but like as an artist and how I represent. So it sounds like it was like a clarity that came. Definitely. Like that, that was the moment that I was like, okay, this is a story that has to be told by me because it's mine, right? And I was aware of that. Not so much of like, I know who I am, but you know, that still that sense of like, I know I'm not that, right? Okay, okay. So early on when you were, you know, you were inspired, right? Tupac, were there any other main inspirations that you had? Everybody really, of course, the Kendrick, Drake's, Cole's, Hove, Nas, but really everything. Like I used to just consume a lot of music. I hear some shit that was completely left field and it's just everything, everything that sounded great. You know, and still to this day, I kind of consume music just as a whole, not really genre bound. Gotcha. So are you, as an artist, all right, how do you look at this turn of like the rebrand? Because you still got the other page up. When I saw it, it was a page, I think it got like 20,000 monthly listeners. Like, so what, now knowing that you're on this side of it, like why is that, why is that page up? And then how do you- Because to me it's not a rebrand, it's evolution, right? And when you evolve, you don't always get rid of what was there, evolution sometimes just improves what was there, right? You start off with an iron that's just steel, then you add a cable to it and you add a steam button, but you don't get rid of the iron, you know, you just keep improving it. So to me it wasn't a rebrand, I wasn't becoming something new, I was just evolving as a person, as an artist too. Yeah, and so I'm just like leaving bread, crumbs of the story off of fans, the fun, yeah. Exactly, you know, it's not, it's not like any phase I was ashamed of or anything that I needed to get rid of, it was just something that I needed to grow out of. And what time period was that album? What year was that when you made that switch? 2019? Well, no, 2020, 2020, yep. It's a hell of a time to make that switch. Yeah, it was COVID, it was COVID, it was a whole lot of shit going on and yep, it was a perfect time. But so, like moving up out of that and getting back to even the community aspect everything, like you got a whole team here man, right? A whole operation. How do you look at building team? Cause that is like the number one question most artists ask outside of, so it's like, how do I get money? How do I get signed, right? And then, how do I build a team? Those are like the three questions we get personally the most often. How did you look at building team? I never had to look at it or think of it a certain way because I just utilized the people that was around me. Like you said, when you look around like I've known Chalmaine since high school, we have like new additions but a lot of my original team was just my friends that was around me and as we evolved, I met new people that was like, that's the key component. But I never had to focus on building a team. I just became a great player. There's not too many niggas who don't want to play with Steph Curry. You feel me? Like you do all the work you're supposed to do and naturally people are like, send me there, trade me there, draft me, you know, they want to play on that team. So I never had to focus on building that much. I was just building my shit. And as I built my shit, people walked by and they're like, I like this, I want to help, you know? That's a beautiful way to say that, bro. That's a perfect way to say that. So your friends who have been around or any of them in music, y'all doing music together at some point or? Not, not really. I kind of pulled a bunch of people who were just my homies. No one was, Tessie was in the music. We kind of started releasing music together, but for the most part, everybody I pulled in was just a homie and it was like, bro, I need some help. Could you hold this camera? Could you here recording it? Could you do this? You know, if someone's around, I'm going to ask for help if I need it. And then it just naturally we start more working more and more people come in. But yeah, it wasn't, no one was really into this field but everyone supported me and what I was doing. Have you ever had any moments where it was like, all right, you need to switch roles? You're like, you small forward right now, you need to be center or? Of course, I mean, those are, that's every day. That was me before there was anybody on a team, you feel me? So naturally everyone replicates. No one here really has a role. Everyone is willing to do whatever they need to do for us to win and get a ring, you feel me? There's not really any assigned roles for anybody. There's no job that's below anybody or above anybody. Sarai's carrying a fucking base module into the house right now, you feel me? Like, Sarai also works on Merge and she also operates on a live stream and whatever, edit video, whatever the fuck needs to get done, you feel me? Is that, was that like a culture you had to like make happen or did it just come organic? It came organically. I'm a firm believer, like if you leave a demonstration, people gonna follow. If I'm carrying a shit ton of equipment and there's four niggas around me, just naturally the right people gonna be like, let me grab one too. And the people who don't, they wean themselves out. They wasn't willing to help or assist. So yeah, it was definitely organic. I was always willing to do the work myself. So it was just, it was gonna get done regardless or not. So it was just easy for people to kind of integrate into the system because it was already created. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're speaking of systems, man. Like you are rehearsing on a Friday, you know? And I know a lot of artists who don't rehearse at all, right? I think we just talked about somebody who hadn't had a performance and they were already popping and that's a pretty prevalent thing today. It's a newer thing in terms of this error is the first error to really have that as a problem. But it's a pretty consistent and common thing. What makes you in this era seeing that, having that as an option be someone who works as hard as you do at the performing aspect of it? It just feel dumb to go on stage and wrap over a zone plan. I mean, to me, it's just, it's like, what the fuck I'm gonna do that for? If that's the case, I would have nothing to do. There's really, there's nothing for me to do over here. You feel me? You took my job away at that point. So really for me, it's like, I just, I love the shit I do. I love being able to rap. I love rapping. I love getting with the homies and they start playing instruments and I just come up with verses over. I just enjoy it. You feel me? It's a, yeah, I just enjoy. It's me shooting my shots. It's like a workout like you do in any other form. If you a boxer, you go box. I just come in the backyard and rap and work on my shit. You feel me? So today's Sunday, no, today's Friday. The show is on Sunday. Is this the only day that you've practiced this week? Like what is that schedule? No, we've been rehearsing all week. We took like a little break, but generally like I kind of blew up off rehearsals. Like niggas used to see me rehearsing in my garage and it was going viral on the internet. I've been rehearsing a long time. Like there's not really any set schedule when I feel like rehearsing. I come out here and get my work in. Some days I take too much time off and I get rusty and I'm like, I gotta get back in there. But yeah, it's just kind of like ritual. Like we practice. We just go put our shots up. That's dope. Cause I never thought about it this way. And I wasn't aware. You say you blew up off of rehearsals. So I blew up off a lot of shit. I mean, of course, but yeah, but that was definitely that went crazy for you. Just the fact that you caught that on camera and then you were putting it out there. Yeah, well, we was live streaming on. I mean, we was always filming them and we'd have pieces that go down. We started doing the live streams and certain shit was like, ah, we gotta share this. But yeah, we was docking everything. We was filming everything, putting it up on YouTube. We just looked today, I was starting to slash. Cause I'm like, how do you see how many videos we got? We got fucking 1200 videos on YouTube. And I think I started that channel probably in like 2018, 2017. Started uploading content. So 1200 videos and a span of three, four years, you know? Yeah. What got you into that? Like to actually start putting the video up seriously, the live stream, like how did you evolve to that? Just sharing content. Like we, I've always shot content because it's like, brother, how else you gonna market your shit? You can't just post a song. So I've always kind of just shared it. And when I initially started rehearsing, we didn't use to record them. I just used to be rehearsing. But I was like, this is something people should be able to witness and experience too. If I can get, if I can throw this shit on YouTube and it get a couple thousand and a thousand views, it's like, right, that's free. You feel me? So might as well. Go ahead, you got it, bro. Yeah, I was just gonna ask you like, what is your content infrastructure and process look like right now is it just, are you guys just looking at all the contents you gathered for the weekend? You're looking at how you can repurpose things in a certain way. Like, do you have a certain structure? Uh, kind of. So we do, we usually have a schedule, right? So initially when we started, I did a 30 day run I was supposed to like once a day. Then we started building it up. So we would do an interview clip, a quote, a quote post, a live performance. Then we do something that's like today. Like, you know, real time shit, some type of announcement. And then sometimes we'll end with another live performance. Cause I was always like, I always want people to see what I do. But now similar formula, but we just lessened it because it's like, I only want to share the shit that I'm like, I love this so much. People need to see it. You feel me? They're part of it. I really need to get this message out. But same formula. We film everything and the things that make us smile or make us feel something or make us laugh or spark us is the shit that we choose to share. So are you hands on with picking the content or is it the team picking those ones for you? Me, Tieta Splash, like Splash now, he does the vlogs. He'll send the vlogs in. I watch each vlog and then I'm gonna cut this. I'll do a final cut, drop it up. Certain clips will come to me. Like after each rehearsal, I usually go in and I'll drop it in and bounce it or Tieta drop it in and bounce it. I'll skin through, find the one that I love. But yeah, I'm still super active, super hands on. Sounds like you actually enjoy being a part of it. Yeah. And that's because a lot of artists, they just make music or just want to make music. You feel me? They don't have a love beyond that. But with me, it's like, I started off doing this shit. You know, before rap was gone, I was shooting a bunch of content and sessions. And it's just like, that's my rhythm. That's what I'm used to doing. And I just want shit to go up that I really have my heart in and support and believe in. And you know, I should be, you should be hands on with that. That's your art, that's your shit. What doesn't go out? Because you put a lot of shit out, what doesn't go out? Every song is not a home run. Like some performance when I rap and I'm just like, just get in it all. I'm just getting my shots up, you know? Everything gets in a half court shot and those ones just like, no, we don't have to share. You can put it on YouTube but we don't have to share it on the timeline. So, you know, out of an hour interview, sometimes we'll walk away with 30 clips that was like, okay, these were moments. And out of that 30, we might say, but these 10 are the ones that niggas is looking for, right? And that's what goes up in the remainder. It's like, if it goes on YouTube or it goes somewhere cool, but if not, I'm not pressed because it wasn't like, it wasn't life changing to me. It was like, if it's shared, great. If it's not, I'm not, I'm not mad at it. You got a good shot and then you got some highlight. Yeah, you know? Yeah, exactly, exactly. The one that's going on the tender is different from the one that's going on. No, I'm just looking around. That's real though, man, that's real though. You feel me? But man, and it just helps with like content control. Like, I feel like I got to a point where I was posting so much. It was kind of like, it's funny, Mick Jenkins, he's one of my favorite artists and he hit me. He was like, bro, I love your wave. I had to unfollow because it's like an overload. But even though I'm unfollowing, I still follow. I see everything because you put out so much content. But it even had me thinking like, man, that's right. Because we had such an abundance. And then I was like, let's narrow down even more to the ones that's like, we love this. Niggas need to know this. Because you got shit that people, it's cool if they know. And then you got shit that's like, no, they need to know this, right? And those are the things that I really want to make sure I'm putting out and sharing. Do you feel like you had to go through that process though to really have your system popping the way it is now? Definitely, every part of it was like, everything, you learn from each one. You feel me? Everything it goes through, you learn from it. Like you're supposed to come out with bruises and marks and shit, that mean you figured some shit out. You feel me? You had to go maneuver. Yeah, I love that because to me, like going high quantity, you're really building a muscle at that point, right? And once you got the muscle, you can be selective. But a lot of people being selective, they don't have the muscle. Exactly. And that's the thing like, my thing is I always have it. So whether I share it or not, doesn't matter because I have enough. I'd rather have more than I need than I have what I need at all. You feel me? So I'm always okay with us ending with a hundred. And it's like, all right, now we can narrow it down. But if you don't even have enough, you know, you can't get no post though. You can't share nothing. So yeah, I feel like, I think quantity and quantity could be accomplished. And I'm a prime example of that. I think probably in the past year, if it's 365 days, I post three, four times a day, I posted over 1200 times in a year, right? And I grew like 750,000 in the past fucking two years, you know, off quantity and quality. Like we gave people both. And then once you get to that point, you could start narrowing down and getting to just quality, you know, in lower quantity. But I think initially you gotta let people know you out there. They don't know you out there. It's like, bro, you could have one quality piece, but it's like, nah, bro, I want my shit on every corner. You can't drive around here and not know McDonald's exist. Once someone knows you exist, then they can determine if they love it or not. But if they don't know you exist, they ain't gonna never get to try it. Yeah, yeah. So you just gotta get up out of obscurity first. Like just see me, just see me. And then you can figure out how you like me later. I mean, exactly. And it's like, man, like I said, just wanting to share. Like don't even do it to be seen. Do it because I did some shit that I think is dope. You feel me? And I want to share that. And then you could take it from there. Cause when you get into that habit of like, I just want to be seen, then you start sharing whatever, you know, just because you like, you got to keep up with the numbers and you got to keep that shit going. And that, that don't never lead to nothing great. That never leads to nothing great. Yeah, you know, you get, you get hold out. You get tired fast. Especially in this industry, like when you start moving, you get hold out fast. You'll be on flight after flight, nigga swine you out, you hold out. All right, next thing you know, you got a BBL. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I can't just agree with you there. Now with that being said, you talk about industry. Like how do you view the industry personally? Um, that's the industry. The industry is everything you've heard about since you was a kid and more. Everything that you think exists about the industry exists. It's true. You feel me? It's not vague. It's really true on the good and the bad side. Like all the good shit, the crazy shit they do is like, oh, they took this platinum by doing this, this, that. That's true. All the other shit too, about niggas going crazy and having to deal with. Man, I just found out that nigga print signed away his birth name. You know how crazy that is for a nigga to say, I want to do business with you. I need your birth name. What kind of nigga take your birth name? A nasty nigga. Like that's insane. I want to do business with you, but I need your birth name. You know, like that shit exists as well, both sides of it. So to me, the industry is exactly what I thought it was going to be coming into it. And we know you haven't signed certain deals, right? You've been a part of deals. There's the viral clip of you talking about Rock Nation hitting you and not getting you the money. I'm sure people probably hit you up about that. Right, that was a big one. It's funny, because that clip went viral before we posted it on our page. So I was seeing everything and I'm like, where's this fucking coming from? And it was just another page that clipped it up and took that clip, right? But it's like, you know, it's funny. As I grow, I'm more like understanding of niggas human, right? And it's like niggas gonna move, how they gonna move and how they know how to move best. You feel me? It ain't even, it's not intentional. You feel me? They would offer the same shit to every other nigga and that is what it is. That's how they do business, right? That's separate from me. And I get it and I respect that. And nigga didn't have to offer me nothing at all. And it's like, cool. We came in off of something, but it's like, it's still, it is what it is. Like I say, you did what you did. You feel me? I just choose not to be a part of it. I just choose not to be a part of it. But it's like, that's how you move and maneuver. That's your thing. It's whatever. To me, to actually be able to turn down deals, all right, I'm sure you've had some deals that were relatively good sums of money, right? But to turn it down, that means you have to have a vision, all right? You have to believe in yourself and you have to believe in whatever you're building. What are you building? Disneyland? I mean, that's the best way to put it. You feel me, Disneyland? Are you going to Disneyland? Everything you see, feel, touch by, express. Like that's how this shit feels for people when they come in here and it's only getting bigger. That's why we scaling. We building Disneyland. People becoming familiar with the characters. They know who Tietta is. They know Splashy. They know Millie, you know. They know Chow. They, that's all the characters when you're going to Disney and people want to take their pictures. Like we're building that type of infrastructure. Have you studied Disney in that way? Yeah, yeah. Him, Sam, Walton, you know, there's a book called Imagineering based on like Disney and everything he built. And yeah, I study a lot of them. Just Steve Jobs, man. I used to wake up every morning and go drive to my little walking spot. And I just listened to his speeches and Tim Cook and just everybody who like invented gigantic things that we can't really fathom. Yeah, yeah. Speak more on that, man. Was it always through music that you knew you would want to take that type of information and build on or did you have any other type of, you know, interest that you figured, like maybe I might be building this. I might create an app or I might, I don't know. Music kind of opened the door for all of that. And I thought it would be my launch pad in but I didn't know for certain but I knew that I would get, I knew that I'd become something. Every since I started working, like every job I worked at, I started at a very low level and was able to move up extremely fast and increase pay. I was always creating something new at every job I went to or building or improving the system that existed already. So I knew that I was going to be able to do that at a grander scale. And then music is like, as it start moving and I started seeing the public response, I just was able to apply that same worth ethic and the same shit to it. Like I'm literally a nigga who's here because I've done it 10,000 times. Like Seth Curry shoots the way he shoots because he shot more than everyone else. And I'm the exact example of that. I've done this shit more than everyone else. I love that man because, talking to your pops earlier, he told the story of just him listening to you early on. All right. And he wasn't fully aware of what your talent was. He started paying attention. And I mean, he might have said like seven years old or something like that. It was a pretty young age. If you could think back to your mind back then, like those times you were building music early on, what was it like? You know what I mean? What were your dreams in your head? I don't remember having many back then. I was just chilling. I was just lying. I wasn't thinking about that shit. Yeah, I was just chilling. I was just life. And at that point, I used to let her rap still then. I used to write like poetry and shit. I had a boom box. I used to download like instrumental line wire and bring them to a CD and play them on there and just rap over them. I used to go to school. My boy Larry used to beat on tables and I used to rap. So like it was just, I just always enjoyed doing, but I never was like, I'm gonna be famous. You feel me? Like at least not to me. If I said it, it was just like fucking around as a kid, you know? But yeah, it was just something I enjoyed doing. I don't even, I don't think I had a specific thing that I wanted to be back then. Man, that's interesting. Cause it's with the talent being so clear early on, but oftentimes I guess you do find that people who have so much talent, but that's even the thing. Like the talent still be murky early on. Like I wasn't tight. I was better than other niggas my age, but they wasn't tight. You feel me? So it's like, it's not a clear thing. It's just like, you the best person on the court until a nigga who really played comes on the court, you know? Like, and that had to grow and develop. What point were you like? Oh yeah, I got it. Probably like 10th or 11th grade, I had like a battle at school. And it was like, I got it. After that, it was up. It was gone. And I knew I got it. But I even, even then I didn't have the confidence of I got it. Like I'm finna make it and blow up and be famous. It was I got it. Like nigga, I can rap. You feel me? Cause even after, after I graduated, I took a break and was just kind of working in building. You feel me? Cause I didn't have that confidence. Like I can make it, but I knew I could rap. So with all that in mind, there's LaRussell and then there's a good company. Right? A lot of artists have merch and things like that. But you have an entirely different brand house, a media company. Why is that? What is good company? Like your words. And then why that route so early on? Good company is just a creative collective. Like that's how I've always looked at it from when I started. And it was just a way for me to be a part of things and help everybody I wanted to help without having to have my name just like, LaRussell LaRussell this is just like, no, it's a unit. And I had a bunch of people that was just fucking with me that would help me do things. So it's like, instead of us having to put 10 names, like, this is what it is. You feel me? This is what we're building. And that just grew. It grew into like a culture and a community and a society. But yeah, it's just a creative collective. It's just niggas working. Hey, bro, y'all work hard and y'all work efficient. You know? Like just the things that I've seen, like you're not putting all the information out there right now, bro. I know how much it takes to do this stuff as well as you do it. You know what I mean? Like you saying it like, yeah, we just do this and we making it happen. But like this, this is not a connection thing. This is a... It's not far from that. It's, because it's really, that is repetition. Like if you've seen some of our first live sessions and our first shit and our first cameras and first mics, like, bro, my first mic, they was like plastic, like toy mics. And we like, we really had to figure that shit out, rehearsing out the speaker through the ox cable and a nigga playing the instruments on his phone. So like, what this is is really a result of a nigga just doing it every single day. It's not much more complex than that. You know, beyond the work, of course there's a mind behind it, but that can't be replicated. So it's nothing that you could really give a nigga a tip on cause no one can think like you. But in terms of the blueprint, it's the work. A lot of people who don't make it today is just cause they don't wanna do the work. Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying like, really, I might fall on a specific blueprint. We know what we're gonna achieve. Every single day we practice and then we try to figure out how to make it better. And that's, this is the result of a thousand tweaks and a thousand. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a, I mean, at this point, there's not many blueprints for me to follow with what I've done. I've created a lot of new shit. You feel me? So we're kind of just steamrolling. I get to take things from people who did things prior, but there's not too many people who's done what I've done. Just selling stocks and proud to page, show offer based merch and offer based ticketing. There is no blueprint for me to look to, you know, like the last blueprint that laid a lot of ground for me was Nip season. And after he passed, I was able to take that and help innovate and create something new. So now it's like, we just steamrolling. Everything I do that's new is the new blueprint. You mentioned the offer based stuff. Like what, what, what kind of got you to the point where you even wanted to try that? Because I was doing proud to pay at first. And I was getting whooped at times because like, I had too much heart, right? And I was like, I don't let anyone do whatever, right? And some people take a lot of advantage of that. Most people fuck with you, but there's some people that, I remember when we first started proud to pay merch and they go order like 10 things for a dollar each. And I had to call him and I was like, yo, bro, come on dog. And I ended up going to his house to drop off shit. And we just had a conversation. And really like, it was just like, bro, I was just blown away at the fact that you could do this. And I was like, yeah, but think about everybody. You feel me? Like if you take them all, then what everybody else gonna get who wants to support and pay? Like you feel me? But after we got from that, I was like, we need to create a system that allows me to determine my worth as well. Cause it's kind of fucked up for me to be an artist and not be able to determine what I think is acceptable for my art or my time or my energy too. So we made the offer based system, which innovated everything. Cause now I could say yes or no to something, right? Can you clarify the difference between those two? So proud to pay. When we used to do proud to pay shows, you can come to the door and you could pay whatever you want and you can get in, merch you can go online, you can put in whatever you want to even get in. Offer based is now you go into the site and you put in whatever you're willing to pay. And I have a back end that can say, yeah, that's acceptable to me or no. I like that, man. Right? And that allows me to accommodate both. You feel me? Some people still get shit for a dollar because it's like, yeah, I'm gonna fuck around. Like I get it. You feel me? But it also allows me to fuck with the people who are like, no, I really support you and I want to rock with you and I want to make sure you're taking care of too. Yeah. That's cool. Cause I always feel like artists, you guys are always fighting that battle between, like you said, me trying to, you trying to display what you feel like your worth is and then also trying to gauge like what you think the fans, what you think your worth. And they just don't understand the artist pays everybody for everything. Right? Like everybody else does a service to the artist. The artist pays and conversates everything. Everybody else is on a service base. So by the time you spent 20, 25,000 to make sure everybody else straight, ain't nobody paying you. You gotta wait quarters for streaming. And we all know how that looked. You feel me? So it was like, the artist takes on all the burden most of the time. I'll spend more money than any collaborator I know. And everyone eats off the art I create. You feel me? I pay everybody. Everyone don't pay me. You feel me? So that's what people don't understand. It'd be a lot of discussions and people are seven is like, rather artist puts out everything. And then ultimately the artist is the one that makes everything blow up. You feel me? When, when shit goes crazy and viral and the song he's getting repeated, it's what the artist put on it. You feel me? That's what makes that shit go. So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a lot that you got to put in as an artist just to get any point, which is why I get why Nigga signed to labels. You feel me? Cause it's a lot you have to do to get people to come to your backyard. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that system is, it's beautiful man that offer base versus just hearing a proud to pay. But I think you, I pushed that out there. You tested it. You, you ran with it very well. It was great to even hear about that. And build around that. And we still do it. Like albums right now, you can go online right now and get an album. You can get jibs, right? You know, whatever you want to pay. So we still, we still do that with certain things, but with shows is just like, I'll say it's a different thing. Cause there's so, man, we bring a lot of people. We bring instruments out. We have to secure venues, secure, just there's a ton of things that go into it where it's like, bro, I can't, I can't let you do me like that this time. But you feel me? Right, you know, you know, but we keep that door open. So it's always a possibility. I'm probably the only artist of my caliber that you might be able to see if you a dollar short, $5 short, $20 short, $30 short, $50, $100 short shit. You might still get in the show. You know, we had a LA show and someone, I'd be passing the mic around so people could ask questions and shit. And someone was like, man, I only had a dollar. I roll here on the scooter and you let me in this show. You know, and it was like, that's what this shit is for. Yeah, I can imagine that. That's the stories that people are gonna remember. Person. You have forever fans. That's the thing, like with a forever fan, you might've got a dollar that first show, but throughout the rest of that year, you probably end up making 3,400 off of that one person because they gonna come buy hoodies, merch, come to show everything. Yeah, when they do get some money. And that's really the goal of this for an artist. Let me take a quick second to tell you about forever fan because many of you know that my agency is responsible for helping multiple artists blow up, tens of billions of views and billions of streams, but I wanna specifically talk about a strategy that we've used to help artists get millions of streams on their very first song. And as a matter of fact, in the last 12 months, an artist got signed to a major label using this specific strategy and you'll never guess what it is. Pre-saves. Yeah, that's right. Pre-saves. They're extremely powerful when you do them correctly but most people don't understand how to do it. See, the problem becomes, we've been all this effort for this pre-save campaign and then the song finally comes out and then what happens after that? Nothing. You're starting from ground zero again because you're not about to ask people to pre-save every single time you drop a song. So I'm here to put you on to our solution for that, which is forever fan. A platform that removes this massive pain for artists by making it so when a fan pre-saves one of your songs they automatically pre-save every single song that you drop after that. So your work doesn't just create a one-time fan of a single song, it creates a forever fan and you can take advantage of this same solution. Go to foreverfanmusic.com so that you can get more streams and a deeper relationship with your fans for the same amount of effort. Foreverfanmusic.com, check it out now. Forever fans, man. I love that term because that's what people should focus on. There's a lot of artists that are streaming way better than you, right? But they're probably not making the 10th of what you're making, right? And that's being built different, like the way you build things up. And a huge part of that is just fan first. So for even, to me, the way I see this personally is you're building this and people don't see it. Like people can now say, oh, he's not hitting these numbers, typical industry numbers, whatever, whatever. But it's like this undercurrent going right now. That's what's beautiful because, and we've seen it, all the label meetings we had earlier, they're like, they would only offer a certain amount because they're like based on streams, streams, streams. It's like, we don't stream a lot, but you know what comes from me being on your label and why are you acting like you don't? You feel me? There was a time that Drake didn't stream a lot. There was a time Kendrick didn't stream a lot. There was a time every artist who somebody now didn't stream a lot, right? And we can't base it all for that. And what's even different with me is like, I don't stream a lot, but I sell real records. I probably sold more albums than most other people who do stream well. So that's not even a good metric to gauge me off of. I think that's a bad metric in general. Or the industry has encouraged a lot of people to buy into that system. So it works for a lot of people and for them, I get it makes it easier to make better decisions, lower your risk as a label as a business. It all makes sense, right? But you also have to have that flexibility for the special cases, right? To me, when I see a you, there's just so many other things. If I see this guy's bringing in this type of money, this type of community and doing these type of things, there is a thing for those. And you know what it's called? A 360. Ha ha ha ha ha. You know what's, and this is the, you know, this is something I learned. I used to think a 360 deal was like a bad thing because everyone previously got fucked by it. But it's not a bad thing. Like Jay-Z's venture with Live Nation, The Rock Nation was a 360, right? It's a good thing if you're bringing in a bunch of different kinds of revenues. The only thing is like, it must make sense. I got offered a 360, but they didn't want to give me no present back in exchange. So I was like, why would you have a percent of everything I made, but I don't get nothing back in exchange. And you're going to make all this money out of shit and I get something too. What about every nigga who comes to your label after me because I was here? What about all the rapport and offers you get now because you have LaRussell here, you know, like, they don't make it, they don't make it, they don't make it reciprocated. You feel me? Nah, go deeper into that shit right there. Cause that's, that's a level of value and understanding of value that people don't. And it can't be quantified in an, in an advance or a specific number, right? You have to really tailor things like that. But when you start talking like that, it's like, it becomes a different conversation and it's like, no one wants to deal with that cause they're trying to look for the easy thing that they could sign and make hot. But it's like, bro, we, that just, it don't make sense for me to approach those deals. You know, it's like, how do you want 10% of somebody's else's thing? All of it on every lane, but you don't want to give none of yours. And the only thing you're going to do is I'm going to put money up and provide my staff. And it's like, well, I could put money up and provide my own staff. You feel me? That shit should be fair no matter what. It should be fair back and forth. Have you, the first time you got offered a deal that you consider to be like a good amount of money. Can you say whatever? Like, you don't only have to be the company, but like, how much amount of money was it where you like, yo, this is a good amount of money and I'm going to turn it down. And then what was the mindset like that? Was it hard or did you have to think through it a little bit? Rock Nation second, their return offer was a good amount of money that I had to turn down. Like 750,000 total across a span of projects. Def Chance was like 350,000. And then, yeah, the deal I got after that, that was a good amount of money. I ended up doing a partnership with. So yeah, but those were the things 750 was like the highest I was like, yeah, we're going to walk away from that. Yeah. Was it easy that first time? Like, I'm sure now they made it easy because of what happened before that. Exactly. They made it really easy to say no because of all the shit that kind of happened. Yeah, I've seen a similar situation, not even just as an artist, I've seen it as like people I know who like work jobs, right? So say I'm working a job and it's one thing. You know what? There actually was another for 1.5 that was turned down. There was another. You remember that one? Right, right? That one hurt more. Yeah. See, but what they do, like that one was difficult, but easy to turn down because they rationed the money so much. Like the total deal would be 1.5, but they only want to give you this to start and it's like, nah, nigga. There's a lot of deals where artists finish out the deal and don't see half of the money that was ever mentioned. And I'm not even talking about, oh, cause they charge it to your studio time. It's just like, this is gonna be $100,000 worth of marketing that you get. And then they only spend like 15K of the budget because they have to approve everything and artists don't know that that can happen. And a lot of these labels back end system is built in a way that's not conducive to the artist to where you could see what it actually got allocated towards and how much. So it's real murky. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that is why, like you had made me think about the deal and the way you said that happened with, I think it was Rock Nation, where it's one thing if I'm working a job, I make 50K or something, right? And then I say, hey, I'm going over here. And then you say, oh, no, I'll stay over here. I'm gonna try to like offer you 55K. It's one thing, okay, that's a little bit more money. But if the other person offers me 150 and they all of a sudden you like, oh, I could pay you 175. It was like, whoa. Like you could have paid me this all the time. Early on, like talking to like Wendy, they used to always be like, you got to tell them what you want specifically. And I used to always be like, no, I want to see what they offer me, right? Because if I tell you what I want, it's very easy for you to try to go and appease me. But I want to see what's my value to you. What do you see is worth? I've gotten a lot of offers where I call after and I'm like, what does this mean? Why did you choose this amount? What is behind it, right? And a lot of that shit don't have good reasoning. They can't properly assess value and tell you why. It's just standard. Like this is what we do. This is standard, you know? And that's what that shit be. You feel me? I hate that term. Like I get it, but I just had, like I get to say, hey, this is what, I don't get the terms, right? But like I just had a lawyer conversation a couple of days ago dealing with a deal or whatever. And the whole argument on the other side was standard, right? And I had explained, I was like, yeah, I get that standards happen, but like if the standard is not right, it doesn't matter. And I think standard is for niggas who do standard shit, right? I think that every deal has to be looked at differently. If it's someone who's doing standard shit, standard means anyone can do it. This is a universal thing, it's easy. So if you find the artist that's like, oh yeah, 10 other artists make music like this, that's a standard situation. But if you find someone who's doing things that no one else is doing, I think that standard should be the last kind of deal that you offer them, right? That they should have a deal like no one else because no one else is doing it. Yeah, it's weird about me. I know people gotta get shit approved by that county department. They got there, you know, a lot of times these people who you're talking to aren't even necessarily the decision. Yeah, they don't have the power. They're working with what they can work with. And I get that, but it's just, oftentimes it's a bad look, right? But it's not that obviously the system works for a lot of people. Somebody like you seems like you're probably gonna end up holding out. I'm not only gonna call it holding out, you're gonna continue to build. And then, you know, like Nipsey, one day down the road, there might be something that makes sense. But you're not really looking for a deal at this point. You know, and that's kind of, I mean, we do deals just in a different fashion. Like every deal I've been able to do, I've been able to structure on my own term to deliver things that I'm comfortable delivering for amounts of money that I'm cool with, with paying back and dealing with, and I own all my shit. And I could take my shit wherever I wanna take it. You know, like, that's the whole thing to me. Like, you know, a lot of labels give you the creative control shit, but it's like, it's not creative freedom, right? Creative control means you have the control to make whatever you want, but you don't have the control in terms of where we gonna deliver it, when we gonna deliver it, how it's gonna come out. That ain't no fucking creative control, nigga, you feel me? So it's like, hiding under that terminology and those type of acts, I just, those deals don't make sense for me because I've always been an artist who've been able to do whatever the fuck I wanna do. And that's how I've gotten here. Why would you break a system that's working already? Was it just instinct to look at deals differently or was it just stuff not making sense? Because a lot of people, even if they're doing something different, you might say, I don't like the way things are going and you just don't do a deal. But to realize, hey, I can negotiate and figure different ways to put this together and make sense with a reasonable person, where did that come from? Had you, did you study deals? Did you get advice? Man, I used to read, before I ever got offered a deal, I used to read all the music books, you know, how to win in a new music business and the fucking white and blue one, David Passminter, Donald, Donald Espach. I've read so many different media and marketing, just a bunch of different books on deals and how shit should look. But most importantly, I got experience early from doing so many different things and negotiating shows and negotiating one-off shit here that, man, just as that shit start coming to the table, certain shit makes sense and certain shit don't. But it's like, I've already experienced that. I don't have to do that again. It doesn't make sense for me, you feel me? Did you ever have like any type of typical situation where you were younger and, you know, maybe you had an early manager, went through a phase and did some of that typical stuff or? Never, I never, I had a few people come in that wanted to like be in that role and position, but no one who ever had anything that was like, yeah, you deserve that. I've always been self-managed and I always had my niggas that I could delegate to if I needed to, but even to this day, I'm self-managed. So I've had people come in and help and I'm big on like, whenever you bring to the table, I'll split with you. So, you know, I've had people like Hovane and Shibes and Ty bring different things to me and it's like, all right, I fuck with that. I'm down to do that. And we figure out how we do that, but I've always been self-managed. It makes me think about this one clip I saw going viral from you where you talked about your team members having certain percentage shares of your music. Can you talk about that a little bit more and what kind of push it to that? Man, we shares is the most beautiful thing about all this. So like, all the homies got, you know, they destroy accounts set up and they get their dumps every month where they get their money and they payouts from all the work that we've created. So anyone, when we do live sessions, if you help shoot, if you do audio, if you do lighting, you gonna get a percent. Every album I release, if you did the album cover, if you mix, if you mastered, if you feature, you gonna get a percent, you're a producer. If you help, like Tieta gets percent on everything because she does a lot of the admin for it, make it show it goes up, it releases getting the lyrics put in, she gets a percent of them to everything that comes. My dad gets percent on a lot of shit just because we was using everything that he provided to rehearse early and, you know, going in on merchant shit. Just my daughter has percentages, my daughter's mom has percentages. Everybody, if you touch something or work on something that we're doing, you probably have a stake in it. Man, is the thinking behind it, I want you guys to be just as invested in this as I am? Or was it something else that puts you to do that? Just as invested kind of or more so, just like, I don't want anybody to ever have to rely on me. And it's like music is in a perpetuity. They gonna be getting paid forever. You know, they get to look at that every month and there's money in there that's from work that they did. Not work that I paid them for what they did for me, but work that they did themselves from their own contributions. And I just think that's necessary, whether you invested or not, you helped out on something. You deserve to have a piece of what you helped create. That's interesting, man, because you're the first artist I've heard about doing something like that. Man, I feel like it's some new shit. I've been seeing it a lot after and it's beautiful because the blueprint is laid and being followed, but yeah, I haven't heard of too many doing it early, but Ty Bison, Ty Baysden, Brent Fias manager, he was doing it. He's one of the first person I heard about splits from because he was doing it with a producers and shit through STEM. And I was like, ha, and then one of my boys, Kujo came, was like, oh, you know, this your kid, you can split price. So we started there, but I'm definitely an early pioneer, but Ty and Brent was doing it before me. And the labels always kind of did it. They just call it master points. So if you ever heard like in past interviews, producers like, oh, they gave me a point on a master. That's the same thing. Okay, so I just, pretty much just. But they never did it with creators at this level where the photographer, videographer, we don't, yeah, right, exactly. That's the thing that changed, right? I'm doing it with more people, even the community. There's a lot of people who are fans of me who has percentages in my songs and shit. Like we have gold card members, so we created a membership. You get a gold card, you get added to a stock list so you randomly get just percentages of different songs and you get to come to every show thrown by good company for free. You just pull up, show your card. You went there, right? I already mentioned this, bro, because there's so much shit that technology has provided, but you don't need technology for everything, right? Like the gold card, that's basically like this NFT concept, right? Like all of these things you can do without having to wait for technology to evolve. If you want to do it, do it. Like it might be harder. Bro, when I went to Texas and nigga came up to me and had his card in his hand and I was like, they don't know. And he felt good. He felt good. You feel me? What time is it? Okay. He felt phenomenal. You feel me? And it's a real physical card that we ship ourselves and we do it. Like you don't have to wait on technology. You got it. Even before we had the offer-based ticketing platform set up and the shit online, me and Tieta had built a spreadsheet that we'd go through manually one by one. You know, all our first gold card, one by one spreadsheet. Gold cards are still a manual spreadsheet. I won't create a system because I feel like it should be that where we go in is like, I fuck with that, you know? Stop buying stock is a spreadsheet. That's a manual process. I reach out myself, hey, I fuck with this offer. I can do this or I can't. You feel me? All of everything is still, a lot of it is still a manual process because it has to be like, we build in real community with people. Man, you mentioned community. I want to get to community. But while we're on these spreadsheets, you posted a spreadsheet from the show. I think you and a promoter after everything was bust now, made like $48, something in that vicinity, right? I think you had went up to San Francisco. That was me being lenient. It was less. We was in the red. We was in the red. That you made too was like, you know, it's not always about, you know, knock out the park, big win. Number one, a lot of people took the inspiration from this post in the way you posted it, where it's like, yo, you're not going to win every day. There's wins and losses, but you got to keep moving. That's what I saw a lot of people in the comments because I looked through the comments, try to get a vibe of how people are taking the information and gets put out, especially something like this that you don't see. That's one of those necessary posts, right? Exactly. But my perspective, and this is when I really, really, really start fucking with you. Because I love music, but I want those people who like really respect how people move more than anything, right? And what I said, the fact that he even did this shit, the fact that the numbers are there, like people aren't tracking their stuff, and the fact that you have this tracked, next time you go out to the show, you can even look at things and like, all right, if the ticket's this much, and make decisions off of that, right? Better decisions, right? So how did even spreadsheets come to play? Like, was that like from the gate we did this in school or what? I used to work in aerospace, right? And I learned a lot of skills there to do like business contracts, everything. I learned a lot of shit. Excel was one of those things. Niggas used to come to me at work to build out data sheets, because I knew how to do that. I could sort that, I knew how to fill out all that shit, formulas, I figured out all that shit. So I took that skill and everything that I do in business, like when Tieta first came into my business, I had a job probably of hundreds of different spreadsheets and I ran through them, I'm like, this is for this, this is for this, this is for this, you feel me? So that was always just a thing after I left that job, I've been using spreadsheets. My whole discography, like I just transferred catalogs to a new distro. I was able to just go in, send the code, this is what it is. If I didn't have a spreadsheet and I had to go through and find each release and go through you, I'd be fucked. You feel me? Like that shit just has, it's helped me run the business 10 fold a hundred times better. People don't know, man. Excel sheet skills, Sam, bro. Excel, Excel is a powerful tool, man. That's one thing I think everybody should learn. If you run a business, learn Excel. Yeah, I just thought that was so beautiful. I was like, man, this is great to see that he's doing this. Because if he's doing this for this, I know it, you don't just make up a spreadsheet just for the sake of it, right? He's like, no, he's doing this, man. And you mentioned he worked in aerospace. Like what does that even mean, right? Like is that, yeah, I don't even, like that outside. So I was working at an aerospace plant that made like explosives and material for like Boeing fighter planes, shit, just different shit like that. Like fucking sumichu, all the, all the shit, safety shit, like shoots that come out of planes when you need to deploy and all that type shit. And when I started that, I was working like production just as a contractor, temp job and shit. And I just start moving up. I start improving systems and figuring out how to do shit better and wanting to lead in and shit. And I eventually got to move up to like the administrative side that was off the production floor and just learning the back end, the contracts and sales orders and purchase orders and how to reshift like that. And I just kind of, all that skill came from that shit. No, no, man. I think it's really beneficial for artists. I know everybody wants to pop as young as they can and like before they really do much, but I think it's beneficial to be able to work in something like that. Whatever the industry is, cause a lot of different industries bring different professional insights. You never know what is gearing you for, you know? Like I'm happy that I did work, cause you never know what skill you learning. And for what? Like I learned how to lead and how to run a team and how to operate shit from being at that job. See man, y'all go ahead and get that regular money, right? And then apply it to yourself cause you can, the skills I think are the underrated part of it. That regular money provides you the base to make irregular money. You feel me? Like that's sometimes where you gotta start. That's the easiest way. That's your label. When you start in your job, your nine to five, it's your label. That's how you get the funding to do whatever the fuck you wanna do. All my first shows, the paper came from me working a job, all the early Martin, me working a job and my pops working his job and putting his paper in. The homies working their jobs and putting their paper in. What do you say to artists who don't wanna do the work that you're doing to build their career? Cause it's a lot of work. Quit. Quit. I mean, that's an easy, you can say yourself sometimes. I mean, but don't even quit actually cause you might get lucky. You know, there is luck, luck does strike and sometimes you get lucky and you ain't gotta do no work and you can still make it and have a similar success. Kinda, you feel me? So just, but you know, keep your expectations level. If you're not willing to do the work then just don't expect all the things that the niggas who did the work got. That's real. Oh yeah, that's a fact, man. Like that's the energy I personally like. You know, I'm a very, you know, I come from sports so it doesn't matter. It's not enough, you know, music people telling people to quit, bro. It sounds fucked up, but you know. It's not fucked up at all. It is. You can go to the executives that might talk that talk or a dame damn. I mean, I think sometimes it saves you time. Like quitting doesn't mean you stop and do nothing. Quitting can mean you stop that and you go do something that you love that you're willing to put the work in for it. You feel me? It's not like quit and go die. It's quit and go find something that you're passionate about so you don't even have to worry about doing the work. If a nigga gotta convince you to do the work, you in the wrong field already. You don't know what you do. I haven't, I made 25 albums and no one had to force me to do it. I love doing what I do. You feel me? That's not work. No one should have to convince you to do that. If you gotta convince your artists to post and to make content and do all that, it's like, you know, maybe this isn't for you or you have to find people that will do those things while you just do the parts you love. Like I get some artists is like, I don't wanna make a, I don't wanna book shows. It's like, all right, make your music. But now you gotta go find the people that do do that. Otherwise keep your expectations, you know, minimal. So you're not depressed and fucked up about it. Yeah. And you mentioned community earlier. Definitely one of the things that I got, we got to talk about before we end this. How do you look at community? Cause we had a little debate. We had a little debate. And to me, I'm like, you are building community better than anybody else. All right? In all ways. Like I go into the details of the debate but with you and that guy, so. Stunner Man 02, my dog. He's an artist from San Francisco and he said it best. Community is common unity. It's literally a bunch of people who have something in common and choosing to stand together behind it. My community is a bunch of niggas who agree with the way that I live and the shit that I do and fuck with my ethics. We all have that in common and we unite together. It's as simple as that. That's what every community is. What are your ethics? What do you stand for? Uh, just doing dope shit. Taking care of the people that take care of you. Taking care of people who don't take care of you. Taking care of people who need to be taken care of because that's what you're supposed to do. Sharing, put the niggas in position. Doing what you love. Doing whatever the fuck you want to do. And showing people that that's a possibility. Building shit that's sustainable that everybody gets to benefit off of and eat from for the rest of their life. It's a bunch of them. It's a bunch of ethics within there. Yeah. Amen. Well, I love that, bruh. Appreciate you for having us out here, man. It's a beautiful scenery. We can't wait to see this show. Come on. You know, on Sunday, we definitely gonna catch some footage from that. See the man live and direct. If there's anything that you want to leave people with, what would you want to leave them with here? He who is willing is who will. Love that, man. Every town. Right, right. Love that, man. Every town. You got hella quotes on there, man. You know? I mean, sometimes we'll be talking and I come up with a metaphor and it's like, boom. We need the book, man. We need the little quote booklet. We already got one. It's called Limelis. I got you before you go. Oh, that's a fact, bruh. That's a fact. I love it, man. Well, yo, that's yet another episode of No Labels Necessary. I'm Brand Man Shine. I'm Colby. I'm LaRussell. And we out. Come on. Peace.